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Default Dinner tonight....Shepherd's Pie

On 25/02/2011 4:46 PM, I_am_Tosk wrote:
> In g.com>,
> says...
>>
>> On 25/02/2011 4:29 PM, I_am_Tosk wrote:
>>>>> Just making it clear that you're talking to Janet, not me.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I cant imagine an American asserting that bread pudding is sometimes
>>>> called a souffle.
>>>>
>>>> What the English are willing to label a pudding is another topic altogether.
>>>
>>> Hummm, I am somewhat rural I know, but I don't even know any Americans
>>> the "eat" souffle

>>
>> I am rural too, though not American. I not only eat souffle, About once
>> a year I make one. They are not as tricky or complicated to make as most
>> people think, and they are delicious.

>
> They sound like they might be, I have just never encountered one that I
> know of..


You should try one some time, or try making one. The recipes can be
intimidating because the recipes go through so many steps. Break it down
into a cooking style and it becomes easier. Basically, start with a
white sauce and add the flavouring. Separate the eggs and add the yolks
to the white sauce and beat the whites. Then fold the beaten whites into
the sauce/yolk.

.. Of course after 50 years of enjoying them I also find I have
> never had a Shepherds Pie either



It was almost a weekly dish in my family. It's a pretty simple dish to
prepare. My mother used leftover roast beef that she put through a
grinder. She would add the leftover gravy, corn and peas, maybe some
carrots, and top with mashed potatoes, which could also be left over.


When my wife made it the other day she fried up some ground lamb with
some onion and garlic, added some chopped carrots, tossed in a bit of
flour and broth to make some sauce, topped with mashed potatoes. It was
delicious.




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On 25/02/2011 5:23 PM, sf wrote:
> On Fri, 25 Feb 2011 16:38:37 -0500, Dave Smith
> > wrote:
>
>> They are not as tricky or complicated to make as most
>> people think

>
> Shhhhh.
>


I have never had one fail and I don't even use a recipe. I just fake
them and they always turn out. I have made them with various type dsof
cheese, seafood, and gran marnier.
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I_am_Tosk wrote:

> In article >, says...
>
>>sf wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 25 Feb 2011 10:50:18 -0800, "M. JL Esq." >

>>
>>>>>On Fri, 25 Feb 2011 15:11:27 -0000, Janet > wrote:

>>
>>>> However many Americans call bread pudding souffle, makes no difference to the fact; it ain't.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>In your imagination perhaps, most americans don't use the term souffle
>>>>>at all much less as a term for bread pudding.
>>>
>>>
>>>Just making it clear that you're talking to Janet, not me.
>>>

>>
>>I cant imagine an American asserting that bread pudding is sometimes
>>called a souffle.
>>
>>What the English are willing to label a pudding is another topic altogether.

>
>
> Hummm, I am somewhat rural I know, but I don't even know any Americans
> the "eat" souffle


Oh there are a few i am sure. Especially the chocolate, desert or
'savoury" souffles, they are quite popular in some more upscale
restaurants. But as far as the finicky French egg white souffles go
they are not a common, everyday home cooked occurrence in the USA.

But there are a number of MOCK "souffles" using whole eggs that i have
ran across here and there but even they are not all that common.

According to the 1965 edition of the Larousse Gastronomique "The same
name [souffle] has been extended to include quite different
preparations, more like mousses or mousselines, served both hot and cold."
--
JL


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On Fri, 25 Feb 2011 17:53:07 -0500, Dave Smith
> wrote:

> When my wife made it the other day she fried up some ground lamb with
> some onion and garlic, added some chopped carrots, tossed in a bit of
> flour and broth to make some sauce, topped with mashed potatoes. It was
> delicious.


My DD started off with lamb but used beef for some reason one time.
Her hubby didn't know she had changed the meat but he liked thought it
tasted better so that's the version she makes now.

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Default Dinner tonight....Shepherd's Pie

On Fri, 25 Feb 2011 17:56:09 -0500, Dave Smith
> wrote:

> On 25/02/2011 5:23 PM, sf wrote:
> > On Fri, 25 Feb 2011 16:38:37 -0500, Dave Smith
> > > wrote:
> >
> >> They are not as tricky or complicated to make as most
> >> people think

> >
> > Shhhhh.
> >

>
> I have never had one fail and I don't even use a recipe. I just fake
> them and they always turn out. I have made them with various type dsof
> cheese, seafood, and gran marnier.


<laughing> Me too. I actually had to *find* a recipe for Tosk.

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Default Dinner tonight....Shepherd's Pie

On Fri, 25 Feb 2011 17:31:24 -0500, I_am_Tosk
> wrote:

> In article >,
> says...
> >
> > On Fri, 25 Feb 2011 16:46:47 -0500, I_am_Tosk
> > > wrote:
> >
> > > In article >,
> > >
says...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I am rural too, though not American. I not only eat souffle, About once
> > > > a year I make one. They are not as tricky or complicated to make as most
> > > > people think, and they are delicious.
> > >
> > > They sound like they might be, I have just never encountered one that I
> > > know of... Of course after 50 years of enjoying them I also find I have
> > > never had a Shepherds Pie either

> >
> > Better get crackin' then. You're not getting any younger!

>
> All right then, want to crack me up a quick recipe? Nothing fancy
> please, I am just getting over being sick so something not too rich if
> possible?


Shepherd's pie or souffle? I usually make spinach souffle, light on
the cheese. A souffle is just a medium béchamel with egg yolks and
other stuff stirred in. Beat the whites until stiff but not dry and
fold that in. Done. Butter and bread crumb a souffle dish. Dump it
in and bake. If you don't own a souffle dish use as deep a casserole
as you have - all that depth is for showmanship.

This recipe looks easy enough.
http://www.housebeautiful.com/kitche...pinach-souffle


A shepherd's pie is cooked meat, mixed vegetables (Trader Joe's has
one that includes green beans in the freezer section) and some gravy.
Mix it up and dump it in individual baking dishes or one big dish.
Top with mashed potatoes and bake until the potatoes have browned.

This one looks more complicated than it really is. Use those TJ's
frozen mixed veggies to save some time but don't mess with the potato
topping - it's fantastic.
http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/g...ipe/index.html



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Default Dinner tonight....Shepherd's Pie

In article >,
says...
>
> On Fri, 25 Feb 2011 17:31:24 -0500, I_am_Tosk
> > wrote:
>
> > In article >,

> > says...
> > >
> > > On Fri, 25 Feb 2011 16:46:47 -0500, I_am_Tosk
> > > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > In article >,
> > > >
says...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I am rural too, though not American. I not only eat souffle, About once
> > > > > a year I make one. They are not as tricky or complicated to make as most
> > > > > people think, and they are delicious.
> > > >
> > > > They sound like they might be, I have just never encountered one that I
> > > > know of... Of course after 50 years of enjoying them I also find I have
> > > > never had a Shepherds Pie either
> > >
> > > Better get crackin' then. You're not getting any younger!

> >
> > All right then, want to crack me up a quick recipe? Nothing fancy
> > please, I am just getting over being sick so something not too rich if
> > possible?

>
> Shepherd's pie or souffle? I usually make spinach souffle, light on
> the cheese. A souffle is just a medium béchamel with egg yolks and
> other stuff stirred in. Beat the whites until stiff but not dry and
> fold that in. Done. Butter and bread crumb a souffle dish. Dump it
> in and bake. If you don't own a souffle dish use as deep a casserole
> as you have - all that depth is for showmanship.
>
> This recipe looks easy enough.
>
http://www.housebeautiful.com/kitche...pinach-souffle
>
>
> A shepherd's pie is cooked meat, mixed vegetables (Trader Joe's has
> one that includes green beans in the freezer section) and some gravy.
> Mix it up and dump it in individual baking dishes or one big dish.
> Top with mashed potatoes and bake until the potatoes have browned.
>
> This one looks more complicated than it really is. Use those TJ's
> frozen mixed veggies to save some time but don't mess with the potato
> topping - it's fantastic.
> http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/g...ipe/index.html


OH, MAN! Spinach is one of my favorite foods. I eat it by the bagfull
I am going to try this one first, it looks like something I am gonna'
really dig..
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Default Dinner tonight....Shepherd's Pie

Gorio wrote:

> I love it when we have silly debates over semantics. Our language is
> static and changes to include things that were previously left out.


Might try looking up the word "static" sometime.

Bob



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"Janet" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> says...
>>
>> "Goomba" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > I_am_Tosk wrote:
>> >> In article >,

>> >> says...
>> >>> Julie Bove wrote:
>> >
>> >>> So you're okay with continued ignorance? I mean, once you learn
>> >>> something you have no problem continuing on with inaccuracies?
>> >>> You probably think "high tea" is some fancy repast too, eh?
>> >>
>> >> Maybe the ignorant ones are the one percent of the population who
>> >> think
>> >> it matters so much they have to get insulting about it? If I told my
>> >> "ignorant" daughter (Masters Degree) to "come home and make me some of
>> >> that famous *Cottage Pie*", she wouldn't know what I was talking
>> >> about.
>> >> Or if I said the same to my "ignorant" mom (VP of one of the largest
>> >> banks in the state at age 30), she would probably tell me to put my
>> >> pinky
>> >> back on the cup, and stop being so difficult. Anyway, just mentioning
>> >> "high tea" tells us, well, you know...
>> >
>> > Being ignorant of the proper name for something (the historical name of
>> > this classic British dish) is not the same thing as being stupid.
>> > Once you've learned something, you're not ignorant of the fact any
>> > longer.
>> > Once I learned that the proper names for the 2 dishes, I used them. I'm
>> > a
>> > traditionalist, shoot me.
>> > What you personally decide to do with the knowledge might make you
>> > appear
>> > stupid though, y'know?

>>
>>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cottage_pie
>>
>> Who's the ignorant one now?

>
> Still you, as usual.
>
> Especially since you already posted "Yes, I know Wikipedia is not
> necessarily considered to be an expert. I could look elsewhere. But
> I'm not gonna."


Oh there are plenty of other cites that back that up. And as the other
poster said, it has been looked into.


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"M. JL Esq." > wrote in message
...
> sf wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 25 Feb 2011 15:11:27 -0000, Janet > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>In article >,
says...
>>>
>>>
>>>>The point is, the general rule here in the US is Shepherds pie is made
>>>>with beef mostly in the US. Call it what you want
>>>
>>> How about that so-called souffle recipe that was just posted? That
>>> recipe, was not souffle.

>
>
> And was called "mock souffle" however if you look up the etymology of
> souffle it is an appropriate term for the aforementioned recipe.
>
> One can sufflare a cup of tea.
>
> However many Americans call bread pudding
>>>souffle, makes no difference to the fact; it ain't.

>
> In your imagination perhaps, most americans don't use the term souffle at
> all much less as a term for bread pudding.


I know I don't.




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"M. JL Esq." > wrote in message
...
> sf wrote:
>> On Fri, 25 Feb 2011 10:50:18 -0800, "M. JL Esq." >

>
>>>
>>>>On Fri, 25 Feb 2011 15:11:27 -0000, Janet > wrote:

>
>>>
>>> However many Americans call bread pudding souffle, makes no difference
>>> to the fact; it ain't.
>>>
>>>> In your imagination perhaps, most americans don't use the term souffle
>>>> at all much less as a term for bread pudding.

>>
>>
>> Just making it clear that you're talking to Janet, not me.
>>

>
> I cant imagine an American asserting that bread pudding is sometimes
> called a souffle.
>
> What the English are willing to label a pudding is another topic
> altogether.


That's for sure!


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"Dave Smith" > wrote in message
om...
> On 25/02/2011 4:29 PM, I_am_Tosk wrote:
>>>> Just making it clear that you're talking to Janet, not me.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I cant imagine an American asserting that bread pudding is sometimes
>>> called a souffle.
>>>
>>> What the English are willing to label a pudding is another topic
>>> altogether.

>>
>> Hummm, I am somewhat rural I know, but I don't even know any Americans
>> the "eat" souffle

>
> I am rural too, though not American. I not only eat souffle, About once a
> year I make one. They are not as tricky or complicated to make as most
> people think, and they are delicious.


I've never eaten one nor have I been tempted to.


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"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 24 Feb 2011 21:34:35 -0800, "M. JL Esq." >
> wrote:
>
>> only a distinction if your a shepherd and/or live in n pbgtage

>
> If the term Cottage Pie existed before Shepherd's Pie did, where's the
> logic in a beef/sheep dispute?


There is none.


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"Dave Smith" > wrote in message
.com...
> On 24/02/2011 11:08 AM, sf wrote:
>
>> Americans call either type Shepherd's Pie. I used to think it was
>> just me, but it's not.
>>

>
> My mother made it with beef and called it Shepherd's pie. Not only
> that,she used leftover roast beef, not fresh ground. It was not until this
> topic was discussed here about a year that I learned that Shepherd's pie
> traditionally used lamb and that if beef is used it is called Cottage pie.
>
> Curiously, at that time, references all supported that, and it appears
> that the Wikipedia article on Cottage pie was altered on just a few days
> ago,
>
>
> I realize that lots of people will only do enough research to find
> something that supports their claim and will disregard any others. I did
> searches for both Cottage pie and Shepherds pie and it I found an
> incredible variety of recipes and views on the beef/lamb issue. While some
> say that Shepherds pie is made with beef, lots of them say lamb, some say
> wither, some say it was traditionally lamb, some say it was cottage pie
> and when lamb was used they changed it to shepherd's pie. One said that it
> used leftover meat.... which is what I was how I remembered it as a kid.


I have some British cookbooks that call for minced beef. I didn't know what
that was and assumed it was leftover roast beef cut up fine. I couldn't
figure out why they weren't coming out to be something tasty. Then through
a newsgroup, I realized I should have been using ground beef!


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Julie Bove wrote:
> "Dave Smith" > wrote in message
> .com...
>
>>On 24/02/2011 11:08 AM, sf wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Americans call either type Shepherd's Pie. I used to think it was
>>>just me, but it's not.
>>>

>>
>>My mother made it with beef and called it Shepherd's pie. Not only
>>that,she used leftover roast beef, not fresh ground. It was not until this
>>topic was discussed here about a year that I learned that Shepherd's pie
>>traditionally used lamb and that if beef is used it is called Cottage pie.
>>
>>Curiously, at that time, references all supported that, and it appears
>>that the Wikipedia article on Cottage pie was altered on just a few days
>>ago,
>>
>>
>>I realize that lots of people will only do enough research to find
>>something that supports their claim and will disregard any others. I did
>>searches for both Cottage pie and Shepherds pie and it I found an
>>incredible variety of recipes and views on the beef/lamb issue. While some
>>say that Shepherds pie is made with beef, lots of them say lamb, some say
>>wither, some say it was traditionally lamb, some say it was cottage pie
>>and when lamb was used they changed it to shepherd's pie. One said that it
>>used leftover meat.... which is what I was how I remembered it as a kid.

>


Shepherds don't generally "shepherd" beef but might cook beef in their
cottage?

Cow pie would have an unfortunate connotation at least in the USA

Beef pie?

I occasionally maker a "tamale" pie which is just a basic ground beef or
pork, corn & onions seasoned with chilli spices and toped with a corn
bread batter to bake up in the oven. I like a chicken pot pie topped
with corn bread also.

Here's just one of many versions available on the net
http://www.texascooking.com/recipes/tamalepie.htm

>
> I have some British cookbooks that call for minced beef. I didn't know what
> that was and assumed it was leftover roast beef cut up fine. I couldn't
> figure out why they weren't coming out to be something tasty. Then through
> a newsgroup, I realized I should have been using ground beef!


It is easier to season, i like to season the ground beef before i cook
it and let it sit for a half hour or so before i cook it up. There is
Steak Pudding that uses "stewing beef" (cut up chunks of chuck rib meat)
as well as steak pie, steak and kidney pie which often includes mushrooms.
--
JL


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On Fri, 25 Feb 2011 20:57:22 -0500, I_am_Tosk
> wrote:

> Yeah, but I bookmarked it and wrote down some weird name cheese I need
> to look for


Don't panic over trying to find cheddar. I use Jarlsberg.

Souffle is another one of those things (like lasagna and macaroni &
cheese) where you can use up all those ends and pieces of cheese that
you have sitting around in the refrigerator.

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On Fri, 25 Feb 2011 22:48:48 -0800, "M. JL Esq." >
wrote:

> I like a chicken pot pie topped with corn bread also.


That's an interesting concept. I need to try it sometime!


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On Fri, 25 Feb 2011 21:06:04 -0800, "Bob Terwilliger"
> wrote:

>Gorio wrote:
>
>> I love it when we have silly debates over semantics. Our language is
>> static and changes to include things that were previously left out.

>
>Might try looking up the word "static" sometime.


In the above instance that may not help... better to look up dynamic.
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On Feb 25, 4:25*pm, sf > wrote:
> On Fri, 25 Feb 2011 11:49:19 -0800 (PST), Bryan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > wrote:
> > On Feb 25, 12:22 pm, sf > wrote:
> > > On Fri, 25 Feb 2011 13:49:56 -0000, Janet > wrote:
> > > > In article >,
> > > > says...

>
> > > > > "Goomba" > wrote in message
> > > > ...

>
> > > > > > What you personally decide to do with the knowledge might make you appear
> > > > > > stupid though, y'know?

>
> > > > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cottage_pie

>
> > > > > Who's the ignorant one now?

>
> > > > Still you, as usual.

>
> > > > Especially since you already posted "Yes, I know Wikipedia is not
> > > > necessarily considered to be an expert. I could look elsewhere. But
> > > > I'm not gonna."

>
> > > That Wiki article had enough cites to choke a horse; so if anybody
> > > wants to dispute what it says, they can take it up with Wiki. AFAIC
> > > the article is correct about the folk etymology angle too.

>
> > Shepherds have been known to choke the lamb during the act.
> > Apparently it makes it wriggle nicely. *It wouldn't work with a
> > horse. *No shepherd has arms long enough.

>
> How do you know these things, Bryan?
>

I'm from Missouri. There are no age of consent laws here pertaining
to sheep.
http://www.riverfronttimes.com/1999-...sed-say-neigh/

--Bryan


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On Sat, 26 Feb 2011 06:42:44 -0800 (PST), Bryan
> wrote:

> On Feb 25, 4:25*pm, sf > wrote:
> > On Fri, 25 Feb 2011 11:49:19 -0800 (PST), Bryan
> >
> >
> >
> > > wrote:
> >
> > > Shepherds have been known to choke the lamb during the act.
> > > Apparently it makes it wriggle nicely. *It wouldn't work with a
> > > horse. *No shepherd has arms long enough.

> >
> > How do you know these things, Bryan?
> >

> I'm from Missouri. There are no age of consent laws here pertaining
> to sheep.
> http://www.riverfronttimes.com/1999-...sed-say-neigh/
>

I meant have you done it, know someone who did or what? I don't even
*think* about those things. I got an entire subthread started once
because I said "bend over and take it in the butt". I wasn't thinking
about fornication, I was thinking about someone being KICKED in the
butt (vs. kicked in the shins)... but it was very interesting to see
how many dirty minds there are in rfc; so I rolled with it when the
eeeews and ahhhhs started pouring in. I didn't even know that nuance
of the phrase until people got all excited about it.

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On Sat, 26 Feb 2011 01:01:35 -0800, Christine Dabney
> wrote:

> On Sat, 26 Feb 2011 00:14:31 -0800, sf > wrote:
>
> >On Fri, 25 Feb 2011 22:48:48 -0800, "M. JL Esq." >
> >wrote:
> >
> >> I like a chicken pot pie topped with corn bread also.

> >
> >That's an interesting concept. I need to try it sometime!

>
> I have made one like that many times...
>

Now I *have* to try it, because I like your cooking! Maybe tonight
even.

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Janet > wrote:
says...
>>
>> Shepherds don't generally "shepherd" beef but might cook beef in their
>> cottage?

>
> Highly unlikely that any shepherd/farm labourer (in the past) could
>ever afford beef... or any other meat they had to pay for.


Barter was always common, in fact a way of life. Even today in this
rural area when someone is getting ready to slaughter an animal they
ask neighbors if they'd like some, either for trade or cash... very
often services are bartered. In this horrid economy barter is making
a big comeback.
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Bryan wrote:
> On Feb 25, 12:39�pm, "M. JL Esq." > wrote:
>
>>�Though one time i
>>grossed out an old english couple sitting next to me in a restaurant
>>when i picked up my hamburger in my hands. �They were visibly stocked
>>and made an ostentatious point of asking for a knife and fork to eat
>>theirs with.

>
>
> Several years ago a niece came over for dinner. She ate fried chicken
> with a knife and fork. Weird.


I once saw, a silver "chicken leg holder" used so that a diner did not
have to touch the chicken leg.

Iregardless [ ] of the person putting it in the holder with their
probly naked bare hand.

But it was an artefact circa. 1880.

Does any body still use an asparagus fork or tongs?
--
JL


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My fault for not reading my own post "NOT static." I sometimes post when I'm in a hurry and don't read my mojo.

Point being: language changes.

I cringe when I hear "the reason is because." I've always been taught that "the reason is THAT." So language evolves to my chagrin , too.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M. JL Esq. View Post
Julie Bove wrote:
"Dave Smith" wrote in message
.com...

On 24/02/2011 11:08 AM, sf wrote:


Americans call either type Shepherd's Pie. I used to think it was
just me, but it's not.


My mother made it with beef and called it Shepherd's pie. Not only
that,she used leftover roast beef, not fresh ground. It was not until this
topic was discussed here about a year that I learned that Shepherd's pie
traditionally used lamb and that if beef is used it is called Cottage pie.

Curiously, at that time, references all supported that, and it appears
that the Wikipedia article on Cottage pie was altered on just a few days
ago,


I realize that lots of people will only do enough research to find
something that supports their claim and will disregard any others. I did
searches for both Cottage pie and Shepherds pie and it I found an
incredible variety of recipes and views on the beef/lamb issue. While some
say that Shepherds pie is made with beef, lots of them say lamb, some say
wither, some say it was traditionally lamb, some say it was cottage pie
and when lamb was used they changed it to shepherd's pie. One said that it
used leftover meat.... which is what I was how I remembered it as a kid.



Shepherds don't generally "shepherd" beef but might cook beef in their
cottage?

Cow pie would have an unfortunate connotation at least in the USA

Beef pie?

I occasionally maker a "tamale" pie which is just a basic ground beef or
pork, corn & onions seasoned with chilli spices and toped with a corn
bread batter to bake up in the oven. I like a chicken pot pie topped
with corn bread also.

Here's just one of many versions available on the net
Tamale Pie Recipe


I have some British cookbooks that call for minced beef. I didn't know what
that was and assumed it was leftover roast beef cut up fine. I couldn't
figure out why they weren't coming out to be something tasty. Then through
a newsgroup, I realized I should have been using ground beef!


It is easier to season, i like to season the ground beef before i cook
it and let it sit for a half hour or so before i cook it up. There is
Steak Pudding that uses "stewing beef" (cut up chunks of chuck rib meat)
as well as steak pie, steak and kidney pie which often includes mushrooms.
--
JL
I also add a little bacon and cheese to my cornbread bake. Love the recipe, though. So do my kids.

Never tried a pot pie with a cron bread crust, though. Sounds like a plan.
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