A couple of people have said they prefer Halal and Kosher slaughtered meat
because the process reduces the pain and suffering to the animals.

This is incorrect.

Halal and Kosher slaughtering require the animal to have its throat cut while
it is still alive and kicking. It is *then* stunned, if at all.


Samesame for the chickens.....

"During conventional poultry slaughter in Australia, birds are shackled
upside down, stunned in an electrified water bath and then their throats are
cut with an automatic blade. In kosher slaughter, pre-slaughter stunning is
not permitted and each bird is held manually while both jugular veins and
carotid arteries are cut. In contrast to conventional poultry slaughter,
birds subjected to kosher slaughter are shackled after they have bled out."



--
Peter Lucas
Hobart
Tasmania


On the seventh day God rested.
But on the 8th day the Gates of Hell were opened
and God brought forth the Airborne Infantry.
And the Devil stood at attention.

On 11/11/2010 3:43 PM, Aussie wrote:
> A couple of people have said they prefer Halal and Kosher slaughtered meat
> because the process reduces the pain and suffering to the animals.
>
> This is incorrect.
>
> Halal and Kosher slaughtering require the animal to have its throat cut while
> it is still alive and kicking. It is *then* stunned, if at all.
>
>
> Samesame for the chickens.....
>
> "During conventional poultry slaughter in Australia, birds are shackled
> upside down, stunned in an electrified water bath and then their throats are
> cut with an automatic blade. In kosher slaughter, pre-slaughter stunning is
> not permitted and each bird is held manually while both jugular veins and
> carotid arteries are cut. In contrast to conventional poultry slaughter,
> birds subjected to kosher slaughter are shackled after they have bled out."
>
>
>
You are the one who misinforms by telling only the part of the story
that suits your prejudices.

--
Janet Wilder
Way-the-heck-south Texas
Spelling doesn't count. Cooking does.

Janet Wilder > wrote in
eb.com:

> On 11/11/2010 3:43 PM, Aussie wrote:
>> A couple of people have said they prefer Halal and Kosher slaughtered
>> meat because the process reduces the pain and suffering to the animals.
>>
>> This is incorrect.
>>
>> Halal and Kosher slaughtering require the animal to have its throat cut
>> while it is still alive and kicking. It is *then* stunned, if at all.
>>
>>
>> Samesame for the chickens.....
>>
>> "During conventional poultry slaughter in Australia, birds are shackled
>> upside down, stunned in an electrified water bath and then their
>> throats are cut with an automatic blade. In kosher slaughter,
>> pre-slaughter stunning is not permitted and each bird is held manually
>> while both jugular veins and carotid arteries are cut. In contrast to
>> conventional poultry slaughter, birds subjected to kosher slaughter are
>> shackled after they have bled out."
>>
>>
>>
> You are the one who misinforms by telling only the part of the story
> that suits your prejudices.
>


Janet, the RSPCA is the Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to
Animals.

They don't come out with crap, or only "part of the story".

If you read the cites provided in the previous posts, you would have seen
that.


http://kb.rspca.org.au/What-is-halal-slaughter_116.html


http://kb.rspca.org.au/What-is-koshe...ghter_117.html

and here is a new one.......


http://www.wspa.org.au/latestnews/20...er_of_consciou
s_decision.aspx


This is the RSPCA........

http://www.rspca.org.au/what-we-do/

They are also members of the World Society for the Protection of Animals

http://www.wspa.org.au/


If you feel that what is stated is a lie, please give your version of how
the animals are slaughterd to suit Halal and Kosher terms.



--
Peter Lucas
Hobart
Tasmania


On the seventh day God rested.
But on the 8th day the Gates of Hell were opened
and God brought forth the Airborne Infantry.
And the Devil stood at attention.

On Thu, 11 Nov 2010 16:56:46 -0600, Janet Wilder
> wrote:

> On 11/11/2010 3:43 PM, Aussie wrote:
> > A couple of people have said they prefer Halal and Kosher slaughtered meat
> > because the process reduces the pain and suffering to the animals.
> >
> > This is incorrect.
> >
> > Halal and Kosher slaughtering require the animal to have its throat cut while
> > it is still alive and kicking. It is *then* stunned, if at all.
> >
> >
> > Samesame for the chickens.....
> >
> > "During conventional poultry slaughter in Australia, birds are shackled
> > upside down, stunned in an electrified water bath and then their throats are
> > cut with an automatic blade. In kosher slaughter, pre-slaughter stunning is
> > not permitted and each bird is held manually while both jugular veins and
> > carotid arteries are cut. In contrast to conventional poultry slaughter,
> > birds subjected to kosher slaughter are shackled after they have bled out."
> >
> >
> >
> You are the one who misinforms by telling only the part of the story
> that suits your prejudices.

I have no idea what he's talking about, maybe larger animals. They
never stunned chickens back in the day. I remember going over to
someone's house when I was little and they happened to be killing
chickens that day. They had what looked like huge funnels. The birds
were plopped into the funnels with their heads sticking out the
bottom. A man came along and whacked off their heads in one slice
with a large knife. boom. boom. boom. Done. When my mom off'd a
chicken, she used an ax. One whack and it was done. She didn't slit
it's little throat, the entire head was removed.

--

Never trust a dog to watch your food.

atec77 > wrote in -
september.org:

> On 12/11/2010 8:56 AM, Janet Wilder wrote:
>> On 11/11/2010 3:43 PM, Aussie wrote:
>>> A couple of people have said they prefer Halal and Kosher slaughtered
>>> meat
>>> because the process reduces the pain and suffering to the animals.
>>>
>>> This is incorrect.
>>>
>>> Halal and Kosher slaughtering require the animal to have its throat
>>> cut while
>>> it is still alive and kicking. It is *then* stunned, if at all.
>>>

>> You are the one who misinforms by telling only the part of the story
>> that suits your prejudices.
>>
> Peter posted a true rendition of the slaughtering methodology
> the animal can't be stunned or it wont bleed correctly (wrong of
> course) according to the law , so the poor little buggers get hung and
> the life bleed out drop by drop which is an unpleasant death



It's called 'sticking, then stunning'.


Much like sticking a knife in someones neck, waiting for a bit, then
hitting them on the head with a hammer.

I don't think may humans would like to see a death penalty like that
brought in.

I'm all for quick humane deaths for any animals that need to be
'slaughtered', as well as scumbag humans.

I watched a show on one of the Foxtel channels recently called "Kill it,
cook it, eat it".... it showed all forms of animals being humanely
slaughterd for consumption.

Pigs, goats, sheep, calves, chickens, ducks and geese.

*All* were stunned prior to their bleeding, and they all bled out.


I, for the life of me, can't see the reasoning behind cutting an animals
throat before stunning it.


--
Peter Lucas
Hobart
Tasmania


On the seventh day God rested.
But on the 8th day the Gates of Hell were opened
and God brought forth the Airborne Infantry.
And the Devil stood at attention.

On 11/11/2010 7:13 PM, atec77 wrote:
> On 12/11/2010 10:57 AM, Aussie wrote:
>> > wrote in -
>> september.org:
>>
>>> On 12/11/2010 8:56 AM, Janet Wilder wrote:
>>>> On 11/11/2010 3:43 PM, Aussie wrote:
>>>>> A couple of people have said they prefer Halal and Kosher slaughtered
>>>>> meat
>>>>> because the process reduces the pain and suffering to the animals.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is incorrect.
>>>>>
>>>>> Halal and Kosher slaughtering require the animal to have its throat
>>>>> cut while
>>>>> it is still alive and kicking. It is *then* stunned, if at all.
>>>>>
>>
>>>> You are the one who misinforms by telling only the part of the story
>>>> that suits your prejudices.
>>>>
>>> Peter posted a true rendition of the slaughtering methodology
>>> the animal can't be stunned or it wont bleed correctly (wrong of
>>> course) according to the law , so the poor little buggers get hung and
>>> the life bleed out drop by drop which is an unpleasant death
>>
>>
>>
>> It's called 'sticking, then stunning'.
>>
>>
>> Much like sticking a knife in someones neck, waiting for a bit, then
>> hitting them on the head with a hammer.
>>
>> I don't think may humans would like to see a death penalty like that
>> brought in.
>>
>> I'm all for quick humane deaths for any animals that need to be
>> 'slaughtered', as well as scumbag humans.
>>
>> I watched a show on one of the Foxtel channels recently called "Kill it,
>> cook it, eat it".... it showed all forms of animals being humanely
>> slaughterd for consumption.
>>
>> Pigs, goats, sheep, calves, chickens, ducks and geese.
>>
>> *All* were stunned prior to their bleeding, and they all bled out.
>>
>>
>> I, for the life of me, can't see the reasoning behind cutting an animals
>> throat before stunning it.
>>
>>
> Something to do with life force cleansing
>
> Personally I hated doing it by the book as upside down hanging and
> slitting the throat is very messy and the animal gives you such a look
> as the eyes dull and become lifeless , still makes me shudder
> Mind I have had the odd bull which when bolted to the head look at you
> like your are an insect with the classic "wtf you doing boris""
>

I have watched kosher slaughter. The animal's jugular vein is slit with
a knife that contains no nicks or impurities. It is a clean, sharp
blade. The animal dies instantly. There are professors of animal
science who proclaim it the most humane method of slaughter. It all
depends upon the personal perspective of who is deciding it's humane or
inhumane.

--
Janet Wilder
Way-the-heck-south Texas
Spelling doesn't count. Cooking does.

Janet Wilder > wrote in news:4cdcbf22$0$7577
:


>
> I have watched kosher slaughter. The animal's jugular vein is slit with
> a knife that contains no nicks or impurities. It is a clean, sharp
> blade. The animal dies instantly.


Sorry to burst your bubble Janet, but cutting *anythings* throat (even if
the knife has no 'nicks or impurities', as if that really matters!!) does
*not* cause instant death.

Death is caused by bleeding out, which can take up to several minutes,
depending on the size of the animal.



> There are professors of animal
> science who proclaim it the most humane method of slaughter.


Do you have a cite for that, and, are those 'professors of animal science'
Jewish as well? If they are, you'd have to admit they would be a *little*
biased.


> It all
> depends upon the personal perspective of who is deciding it's humane or
> inhumane.
>


Or if your religion is steeped in this "need" to slaughter an animal in
this way, so blind eyes are turned for the sake of ....... some silly
religious ritual.


http://www.worldanimal.net/online_ma...%20Animals.pdf

Page 6.........


Slaughter

Slaughter is generally a two-stage process. The animals are first stunned
(with a captive bolt, by electrical stunning, or by gas). The stunning is
intended to render the animals unconscious so they can no longer feel
pain. Their throats are then cut and they die from loss of blood.

In ‘religious slaughter’ animals are not stunned before throat cutting.
Scientific research shows that there can be a long time gap between throat
cutting and loss of brain responsiveness, especially for larger mammals
such as cattle. During this period animals experience great pain and
distress.

--
Peter Lucas
Hobart
Tasmania


On the seventh day God rested.
But on the 8th day the Gates of Hell were opened
and God brought forth the Airborne Infantry.
And the Devil stood at attention.

On Nov 11, 8:14*pm, Janet Wilder > wrote:
> On 11/11/2010 7:13 PM, atec77 wrote:

> > On 12/11/2010 10:57 AM, Aussie wrote:

> I have watched kosher slaughter. The animal's jugular vein is slit with
> a knife that contains no nicks or impurities. It is a clean, sharp
> blade. The animal dies instantly. *There are professors of animal
> science who proclaim it the most humane method of slaughter. It all
> depends upon the personal perspective of who is deciding it's humane or
> inhumane.


Right, as pain and terrorizing the animal results in less tasty meat.
It's in everyone's interest to keep these to a minimum.
And since when is bleeding out so painful? What's one favorite method
of suicide again?

On Nov 11, 10:14*pm, Janet Wilder > wrote:
> On 11/11/2010 7:13 PM, atec77 wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 12/11/2010 10:57 AM, Aussie wrote:
> >> > wrote -
> >> september.org:
>
> >>> On 12/11/2010 8:56 AM, Janet Wilder wrote:
> >>>> On 11/11/2010 3:43 PM, Aussie wrote:
> >>>>> A couple of people have said they prefer Halal and Kosher slaughtered
> >>>>> meat
> >>>>> because the process reduces the pain and suffering to the animals.
>
> >>>>> This is incorrect.
>
> >>>>> Halal and Kosher slaughtering require the animal to have its throat
> >>>>> cut while
> >>>>> it is still alive and kicking. It is *then* stunned, if at all.
>
> >>>> You are the one who misinforms by telling only the part of the story
> >>>> that suits your prejudices.
>
> >>> Peter posted a true rendition of the slaughtering methodology
> >>> the animal can't be stunned or it wont bleed correctly (wrong of
> >>> course) according to the law , so the poor little buggers get hung and
> >>> the life bleed out drop by drop which is an unpleasant death
>
> >> It's called 'sticking, then stunning'.
>
> >> Much like sticking a knife in someones neck, waiting for a bit, then
> >> hitting them on the head with a hammer.
>
> >> I don't think may humans would like to see a death penalty like that
> >> brought in.
>
> >> I'm all for quick humane deaths for any animals that need to be
> >> 'slaughtered', as well as scumbag humans.
>
> >> I watched a show on one of the Foxtel channels recently called "Kill it,
> >> cook it, eat it".... it showed all forms of animals being humanely
> >> slaughterd for consumption.
>
> >> Pigs, goats, sheep, calves, chickens, ducks and geese.
>
> >> *All* were stunned prior to their bleeding, and they all bled out.
>
> >> I, for the life of me, can't see the reasoning behind cutting an animals
> >> throat before stunning it.
>
> > Something to do with life force cleansing
>
> > Personally I hated doing it by the book as upside down hanging and
> > slitting the throat is very messy and the animal gives you such a look
> > as the eyes dull and become lifeless , still makes me shudder
> > Mind I have had the odd bull which when bolted to the head look at you
> > like your are an insect with the classic "wtf you doing boris""
>
> I have watched kosher slaughter. The animal's jugular vein is slit with
> a knife that contains no nicks or impurities. It is a clean, sharp
> blade. The animal dies instantly. *There are professors of animal
> science who proclaim it the most humane method of slaughter. It all
> depends upon the personal perspective of who is deciding it's humane or
> inhumane.

The instant drop in blood pressure likely renders the brain
unconscious. The advantage to a chicken or turkey butchered Kosher is
that the risk of salmonella is *greatly* reduced. Most Reform Jews
and many liberal Muslims have put that Kosher/Halal nonsense behind
them with some of the other absurdities of pre-modern life. You've
read this stuff:
http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0305.htm
http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0307.htm
http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0308.htm
http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0309.htm

We're talking stuff like pinching the head off a pigeon and sprinkling
the blood out of the neck.

And look at these other barbaric practices of ancient times:
Deuteronomy 22:
13 If any man take a wife, and go in unto her, and hate her,
14 and lay wanton charges against her, and bring up an evil name upon
her, and say: 'I took this woman, and when I came nigh to her, I found
not in her the tokens of virginity';
15 then shall the father of the damsel, and her mother, take and bring
forth the tokens of the damsel's virginity unto the elders of the city
in the gate.
16 And the damsel's father shall say unto the elders: 'I gave my
daughter unto this man to wife, and he hateth her;
17 and, lo, he hath laid wanton charges, saying: I found not in thy
daughter the tokens of virginity; and yet these are the tokens of my
daughter's virginity.' And they shall spread the garment before the
elders of the city.
18 And the elders of that city shall take the man and chastise him.
19 And they shall fine him a hundred shekels of silver, and give them
unto the father of the damsel, because he hath brought up an evil name
upon a virgin of Israel; and she shall be his wife; he may not put her
away all his days.
20 But if this thing be true, that the tokens of virginity were not
found in the damsel;
21 then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's
house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she
die; because she hath wrought a wanton deed in Israel, to play the
harlot in her father's house; so shalt thou put away the evil from the
midst of thee.
source-- http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0522.htm

In other words, she'd better not only be a virgin, but have a hymen
that breaks, producing blood on her wedding night, or she is subject
to being STONED TO DEATH!!!! More blood, more nonsense.

>
> --
> Janet Wilder

--Bryan

On Thu, 11 Nov 2010 22:14:29 -0600, Janet Wilder
> wrote:

>On 11/11/2010 7:13 PM, atec77 wrote:
>> On 12/11/2010 10:57 AM, Aussie wrote:
>>> > wrote in -
>>> september.org:
>>>
>>>> On 12/11/2010 8:56 AM, Janet Wilder wrote:
>>>>> On 11/11/2010 3:43 PM, Aussie wrote:
>>>>>> A couple of people have said they prefer Halal and Kosher slaughtered
>>>>>> meat
>>>>>> because the process reduces the pain and suffering to the animals.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is incorrect.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Halal and Kosher slaughtering require the animal to have its throat
>>>>>> cut while
>>>>>> it is still alive and kicking. It is *then* stunned, if at all.
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>> You are the one who misinforms by telling only the part of the story
>>>>> that suits your prejudices.
>>>>>
>>>> Peter posted a true rendition of the slaughtering methodology
>>>> the animal can't be stunned or it wont bleed correctly (wrong of
>>>> course) according to the law , so the poor little buggers get hung and
>>>> the life bleed out drop by drop which is an unpleasant death
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It's called 'sticking, then stunning'.
>>>
>>>
>>> Much like sticking a knife in someones neck, waiting for a bit, then
>>> hitting them on the head with a hammer.
>>>
>>> I don't think may humans would like to see a death penalty like that
>>> brought in.
>>>
>>> I'm all for quick humane deaths for any animals that need to be
>>> 'slaughtered', as well as scumbag humans.
>>>
>>> I watched a show on one of the Foxtel channels recently called "Kill it,
>>> cook it, eat it".... it showed all forms of animals being humanely
>>> slaughterd for consumption.
>>>
>>> Pigs, goats, sheep, calves, chickens, ducks and geese.
>>>
>>> *All* were stunned prior to their bleeding, and they all bled out.
>>>
>>>
>>> I, for the life of me, can't see the reasoning behind cutting an animals
>>> throat before stunning it.
>>>
>>>
>> Something to do with life force cleansing
>>
>> Personally I hated doing it by the book as upside down hanging and
>> slitting the throat is very messy and the animal gives you such a look
>> as the eyes dull and become lifeless , still makes me shudder
>> Mind I have had the odd bull which when bolted to the head look at you
>> like your are an insect with the classic "wtf you doing boris""
>>
>
>I have watched kosher slaughter. The animal's jugular vein is slit with
>a knife that contains no nicks or impurities. It is a clean, sharp
>blade. The animal dies instantly. There are professors of animal
>science who proclaim it the most humane method of slaughter. It all
>depends upon the personal perspective of who is deciding it's humane or
>inhumane.

Slitting the jugular the animal doesn't die instantly (it goes to
sleep the same as when a vet puts down a sick animal - first induces
sleep, then stops the heart). Even though there's lots of blood, when
done correctly slitting the jugular is the most painless method for
the animal... the blood is only emotionally painful to the observers.
Stunning an animal or shooting it are probably the most painful
methods for the animal, physically and emotionally. The concept of
proper slaughter is so the animals don't suffer, but no care is taken
to prevent observers from suffering. For most people it's really best
not to watch... most pet owners choose not to be present when their
animal is put down by the vet.

On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 13:47:12 GMT, Aussie
> wrote:

>Janet Wilder > wrote in news:4cdcbf22$0$7577
:
>
>
>>
>> I have watched kosher slaughter. The animal's jugular vein is slit with
>> a knife that contains no nicks or impurities. It is a clean, sharp
>> blade. The animal dies instantly.
>
>
>Sorry to burst your bubble Janet, but cutting *anythings* throat (even if
>the knife has no 'nicks or impurities', as if that really matters!!) does
>*not* cause instant death.


Death needn't be instant to be painless. When a vet puts down a sick
animal death isn't instant either but it's absolutely painless. When
a person undergoes surgery the anethesiologist ensures the procedure
is painless too. When done correctly slitting the jugular is exactly
the same as administering anethesia, the animal doesn't feel the knife
nor is there any pain from the wound... the animal goes to sleep with
no pain whatsoever, the same as you do during a TV commercial...
unfortunately you wake up in the morning, still just as ignorant... at
least the animal serves a purpose.

Don't they have any educational institutions in Austrailor-Trash
land... there's never been even one downunder at rfc with an IQ

On Nov 12, 10:55*am, Brooklyn1 <Gravesend1> wrote:

> *When done correctly slitting the jugular is exactly
> the same as administering anethesia, the animal doesn't feel the knife
> nor is there any pain from the wound... the animal goes to sleep with
> no pain whatsoever, the same as you do during a TV commercial...
> unfortunately you wake up in the morning, still just as ignorant... at
> least the animal serves a purpose.
>
LOL!

--Bryan

tutall > wrote in news:c9175c65-f035-464a-9d0c-
:

> On Nov 11, 8:14*pm, Janet Wilder > wrote:
>> On 11/11/2010 7:13 PM, atec77 wrote:
>
>> > On 12/11/2010 10:57 AM, Aussie wrote:
>
>> I have watched kosher slaughter. The animal's jugular vein is slit with
>> a knife that contains no nicks or impurities. It is a clean, sharp
>> blade. The animal dies instantly. *There are professors of animal
>> science who proclaim it the most humane method of slaughter. It all
>> depends upon the personal perspective of who is deciding it's humane or
>> inhumane.
>

> And since when is bleeding out so painful? What's one favorite method
> of suicide again?
>


OK, in that context, you'll be nice and calm and peaceful after someone
takes you into a strange room, sits you down, ties you up, and proceeds to
cut your throat. Right?


Of course bleeding out is (almost) painless, dufus, but having someone do
it to you, when all you want to do is stay in the paddock, chew grass and
hump lady cows, is a completely different story.

You *do* know that most animals can smell death, don't you? I saw it first
hand when out at the University of Queensland in the Veterinary wing. End
of year, lessons are over, one final lesson to give. Euthanizing the 4
horses that had beem used as "patients" all year. The first horse went in
to the padded room, and one of the students proceed to give it the
injection in the neck. 5 mins later it was declared dead and dragged out
of the room. The second horse was brought down the 'race' towards the
room, got to within 20' of it and its ears went up, its nostrils flared
and it started to back away, or tried to anyway.

Each horse after that got progressively more 'antsy' trying to get them
into the room, to the point of rearing up and crying in fear.

So don't tell me that animals are dumb and don't know what's going on.



--
Peter Lucas
Hobart
Tasmania


On the seventh day God rested.
But on the 8th day the Gates of Hell were opened
and God brought forth the Airborne Infantry.
And the Devil stood at attention.

tutall > wrote in news:c9175c65-f035-464a-9d0c-
:


> Right, as pain and terrorizing the animal results in less tasty meat.
> It's in everyone's interest to keep these to a minimum.
> And since when is bleeding out so painful? What's one favorite method
> of suicide again?


One final thing....... when the throat is cut, the spinal cord is left intact
so that the brain can still function and send messages to the heart to keep
pumping blood, and it's been shown that the heart rate goes *up* after the
throat has been cut..... not that one would need scientific proof to know
*that* particular fact.




--
Peter Lucas
Hobart
Tasmania


On the seventh day God rested.
But on the 8th day the Gates of Hell were opened
and God brought forth the Airborne Infantry.
And the Devil stood at attention.

Omelet > wrote in
news
> In article > ,
> Aussie > wrote:
>
>> tutall > wrote in news:c9175c65-f035-464a-9d0c-
>> :
>>
>>
>> > Right, as pain and terrorizing the animal results in less tasty meat.
>> > It's in everyone's interest to keep these to a minimum.
>> > And since when is bleeding out so painful? What's one favorite method
>> > of suicide again?
>>
>>
>> One final thing....... when the throat is cut, the spinal cord is left
>> intact so that the brain can still function and send messages to the
>> heart to keep pumping blood, and it's been shown that the heart rate
>> goes *up* after the throat has been cut..... not that one would need
>> scientific proof to know *that* particular fact.
>
> Heart rate goes up as blood pressure goes down.
> That's physiological, not psychological.



Ever asked man or beast about that after their throat's been cut?


>
> But, I doubt I'd want to sit still for someone to cut my throat.
>
> I think some of those videos from Iraq point that up nicely.
>
> I've refused to ever hunt for or watch the damned things. :-(


I have enough nightmares as it is without looking at those sort of things.

--
Peter Lucas
Hobart
Tasmania


On the seventh day God rested.
But on the 8th day the Gates of Hell were opened
and God brought forth the Airborne Infantry.
And the Devil stood at attention.

Omelet > wrote in
news
> In article > ,
> Aussie > wrote:
>
>> OK, in that context, you'll be nice and calm and peaceful after someone
>> takes you into a strange room, sits you down, ties you up, and proceeds
>> to cut your throat. Right?
>>
>>
>> Of course bleeding out is (almost) painless, dufus, but having someone
>> do it to you, when all you want to do is stay in the paddock, chew
>> grass and hump lady cows, is a completely different story.
>>
>> You *do* know that most animals can smell death, don't you? I saw it
>> first hand when out at the University of Queensland in the Veterinary
>> wing. End of year, lessons are over, one final lesson to give.
>> Euthanizing the 4 horses that had beem used as "patients" all year. The
>> first horse went in to the padded room, and one of the students proceed
>> to give it the injection in the neck. 5 mins later it was declared dead
>> and dragged out of the room. The second horse was brought down the
>> 'race' towards the room, got to within 20' of it and its ears went up,
>> its nostrils flared and it started to back away, or tried to anyway.
>>
>> Each horse after that got progressively more 'antsy' trying to get them
>> into the room, to the point of rearing up and crying in fear.
>>
>> So don't tell me that animals are dumb and don't know what's going on.
>
> Please tell me why they were killing those horses instead of using them
> the next year for more students?
>
> Kind of expensive lab rats. :-(



It was the final lesson. All the students needed to know how to euthanise
a large animal.

Most of the horses are actually bought (or given to them) from the
abbatoir. They were going to end up as dog food. They all had some sort of
problem, which became a learning tool for the young vets. Granted, they
were still put to death, but at least their lives were extended by
sometimes up to 18 months, and they were put down 'humanely'.


http://tinypic.com/m/dnlg7l/3


And yes, that's me ;-)


And me again.........


http://tinypic.com/m/dnlgcm/3


Good thing they had my 'names' written on them so I knew who I was at the
time ;-)


--
Peter Lucas
Hobart
Tasmania


On the seventh day God rested.
But on the 8th day the Gates of Hell were opened
and God brought forth the Airborne Infantry.
And the Devil stood at attention.

atec77 > wrote in
:

> On 13/11/2010 2:55 AM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>> On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 13:47:12 GMT, Aussie
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> Janet > wrote in news:4cdcbf22$0$7577
>>> :
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have watched kosher slaughter. The animal's jugular vein is slit
>>>> with a knife that contains no nicks or impurities. It is a clean,
>>>> sharp blade. The animal dies instantly.
> liar
>>>
>>>
>>> Sorry to burst your bubble Janet, but cutting *anythings* throat (even
>>> if the knife has no 'nicks or impurities', as if that really
>>> matters!!) does *not* cause instant death.
>>
>>
>> Death needn't be instant to be painless. When a vet puts down a sick
>> animal death isn't instant either but it's absolutely painless. When
>> a person undergoes surgery the anethesiologist ensures the procedure
>> is painless too. When done correctly slitting the jugular is exactly
>> the same as administering anethesia, the animal doesn't feel the knife
>> nor is there any pain from the wound... the animal goes to sleep with
>> no pain whatsoever, the same as you do during a TV commercial...
>> unfortunately you wake up in the morning, still just as ignorant... at
>> least the animal serves a purpose.
>
> Have you ever laid a blade and caused an animals death with any proof
> of sesation of pain in a production environment ?
>


I'd say the closest that moron has ever come to laying a blade on an
animal is using one to open the packet of meat it buys from the
supermarket, then using another to cut it up on the plate.



--
Peter Lucas
Hobart
Tasmania


On the seventh day God rested.
But on the 8th day the Gates of Hell were opened
and God brought forth the Airborne Infantry.
And the Devil stood at attention.

>>> Janet > wrote in news:4cdcbf22$0$7577
>>> :


What you have to understand Janet, is that I'm *not* picking on your chosen
religion (or should that be the religion that was chosen for you?) or even on
the Muslim methods for slaughtering animals for consumption.

I just don't like the fact that both religions will come out swinging and
defending their chosen method as the "most humane" and causing "less
suffering" with a whole bunch of rhetoric handed to them by their 'elders',
when the methods they use are proven to be non-humane.



--
Peter Lucas
Hobart
Tasmania


On the seventh day God rested.
But on the 8th day the Gates of Hell were opened
and God brought forth the Airborne Infantry.
And the Devil stood at attention.

Omelet > wrote in
news
> In article >,
> atec77 > wrote:
>

>> >> I have watched kosher slaughter. The animal's jugular vein is slit
>> >> with a knife that contains no nicks or impurities. It is a clean,
>> >> sharp blade. The animal dies instantly.
>>
>>
>> Actually what you saw was shock ,
>>
>>
>> the animal lives far to long as the brain slowly starves of O2 which
>> does not reduce the pain it feels one bit
>> >

> I agree.
>
> I like the stun before bleeding concept a bit better. I believe it's
> used in the meat industry in general. Electric shock being used for
> birds and an impact stunner used for cattle and pigs?


Yes for birds and pigs (except for the larger pigs) and the impact (bolt)
for large pigs cows.

I actually read in a forum somewhere where some moron (Muslim) said using
the bolt method caused brain fragments to "shoot through the animals body,
thereby contaminating it" !!!!!!




--
Peter Lucas
Hobart
Tasmania


On the seventh day God rested.
But on the 8th day the Gates of Hell were opened
and God brought forth the Airborne Infantry.
And the Devil stood at attention.

Omelet > wrote in
news
> In article > ,
> Aussie > wrote:

>
> I understand that the US is about the only country where horses are not
> routinely eaten, but still... <sigh>


Nope, there's Australia as well.


>
> I don't eat my pets. :-(


I used to have a pet lamb as a child..... it ended up on the family dinner
plate.

That's probably a good starting point for me as to why I don't like eating
lamb!!


>
> I have a pet emu, and I have emu meat in the freezer. The ones that are
> in the freezer were never, ever raised as pets. In fact, they were
> actually dangerously wild. Fortunately, I only have one scar.
>
> Pauli is a huggy bird, hand raised and almost overly tame. <g>
>
> Might be hypocritical but I consider them to be separate entities...



I've eaten dog (in Russia), so when my pooch misbehaves, I just remind her of
that fact ;-)


--
Peter Lucas
Hobart
Tasmania


On the seventh day God rested.
But on the 8th day the Gates of Hell were opened
and God brought forth the Airborne Infantry.
And the Devil stood at attention.

Omelet > wrote in newsmpomelet-71F7F4.17055312112010
@news.giganews.com:

> In article
> >,
> Ranee at Arabian Knits > wrote:

>>
>> Killing cones. We puncture the brain to kill them instantly, then
>> slit the throat to drain out the blood. It is kinder to them that way,
>> I think, and the blood drains better which makes for better meat.
>>

>
> I prefer stunning them with a heavy blow to punching a hole in their
> faces,...
>
> But to each their own.
>
> Either way kills the brain which is the goal, but which hurts less?


When I'm fishing, any (legal) fish I catch and I'm going to keep get a
good sharp whack on the scone with a rolling pin (killing stick) before I
cut the piece between the gills and the bottom of the head, which bleeds
them out.


--
Peter Lucas
Hobart
Tasmania


On the seventh day God rested.
But on the 8th day the Gates of Hell were opened
and God brought forth the Airborne Infantry.
And the Devil stood at attention.

"Janet Wilder" > wrote in message
b.com...
> On 11/11/2010 7:13 PM, atec77 wrote:
>> On 12/11/2010 10:57 AM, Aussie wrote:
>>> > wrote in -
>>> september.org:
>>>
>>>> On 12/11/2010 8:56 AM, Janet Wilder wrote:
>>>>> On 11/11/2010 3:43 PM, Aussie wrote:
>>>>>> A couple of people have said they prefer Halal and Kosher slaughtered
>>>>>> meat
>>>>>> because the process reduces the pain and suffering to the animals.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is incorrect.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Halal and Kosher slaughtering require the animal to have its throat
>>>>>> cut while
>>>>>> it is still alive and kicking. It is *then* stunned, if at all.
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>> You are the one who misinforms by telling only the part of the story
>>>>> that suits your prejudices.
>>>>>
>>>> Peter posted a true rendition of the slaughtering methodology
>>>> the animal can't be stunned or it wont bleed correctly (wrong of
>>>> course) according to the law , so the poor little buggers get hung and
>>>> the life bleed out drop by drop which is an unpleasant death
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It's called 'sticking, then stunning'.
>>>
>>>
>>> Much like sticking a knife in someones neck, waiting for a bit, then
>>> hitting them on the head with a hammer.
>>>
>>> I don't think may humans would like to see a death penalty like that
>>> brought in.
>>>
>>> I'm all for quick humane deaths for any animals that need to be
>>> 'slaughtered', as well as scumbag humans.
>>>
>>> I watched a show on one of the Foxtel channels recently called "Kill it,
>>> cook it, eat it".... it showed all forms of animals being humanely
>>> slaughterd for consumption.
>>>
>>> Pigs, goats, sheep, calves, chickens, ducks and geese.
>>>
>>> *All* were stunned prior to their bleeding, and they all bled out.
>>>
>>>
>>> I, for the life of me, can't see the reasoning behind cutting an animals
>>> throat before stunning it.
>>>
>>>
>> Something to do with life force cleansing
>>
>> Personally I hated doing it by the book as upside down hanging and
>> slitting the throat is very messy and the animal gives you such a look
>> as the eyes dull and become lifeless , still makes me shudder
>> Mind I have had the odd bull which when bolted to the head look at you
>> like your are an insect with the classic "wtf you doing boris""
>>
>
> I have watched kosher slaughter. The animal's jugular vein is slit with a
> knife that contains no nicks or impurities. It is a clean, sharp blade.
> The animal dies instantly. There are professors of animal science who
> proclaim it the most humane method of slaughter. It all depends upon the
> personal perspective of who is deciding it's humane or inhumane.
>
> --
> Janet Wilder
> Way-the-heck-south Texas
> Spelling doesn't count. Cooking does.


Cutting an animals throat doesnt kill it instantly.

Whenever I've slaughtered sheep for butchering(as well as watched
professionals do it), the knife across the throat is followed by breaking
the neck(probably only a few seconds afterwards), and at that point the
animal isnt feeling any pain any more.

About the only way I can think of for an instant kill is a bullet to the
back of the head. You've still got to bleed the animal, though. I'd guess
that the reason they cut it's throat first is to bleed it out before it
dies, and not to kill it instantly.

On an aside, Is the orientation of the body important for either Kosher or
Halal slaughter?

Oh, and by the way, the knife really should be severing both the carotid
artery AND the jugular. Severing just the jugular would be more cruel than
necessary.

(all dis from one of dem low-IQ downunda types...)
-------

Cheers,

Rod...Out Back
(Now on Windows 7!)

For a round-up of the pics I have taken the past 5 years,
take a look at:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rod_outback/

-------

"Rod Outback" > wrote in
:

>

>
> (all dis from one of dem low-IQ downunda types...)


LOL!!


You sound like one of them US inner city slum dwelling types!!


> -------
>
> Cheers,
>
> Rod...Out Back
> (Now on Windows 7!)
>


Commiserations :-)

After using Word 2002 and prior to that Word 97/95, for soooooo long, usinmg
Word 7 sucks, and blows!!

It takes me 5 times as long to create/format a document in 7 :-/

And I don't really want to spend the next 3 months learning it intimately.


--
Peter Lucas
Hobart
Tasmania


On the seventh day God rested.
But on the 8th day the Gates of Hell were opened
and God brought forth the Airborne Infantry.
And the Devil stood at attention.

Clueless AOL newbie Sheldon "Pussy" Katz blathered:

> most pet owners choose not to be present when their animal is put down by
> the vet.

How strange. I've never seen anyone *not* want to be present. When my last
dog was put down, her death was attended not only by Lin and me, but by the
dog's original owner.

I remember taking my dog to the vet once on a day where half-a-dozen people
had brought their pets in to be put down. Every single one of the owners
elected to be present. (And boy, did *that* put a damper on my day, even
though my dog was perfectly fine!)

Do you have a cite for this, or are you just parroting what you heard from
the voices in your head?

Bob

On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 22:16:50 GMT, Aussie wrote:

> atec77 > wrote in
> :
>
>> On 13/11/2010 2:55 AM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>>> On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 13:47:12 GMT, Aussie
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Janet > wrote in news:4cdcbf22$0$7577
>>>> :
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I have watched kosher slaughter. The animal's jugular vein is slit
>>>>> with a knife that contains no nicks or impurities. It is a clean,
>>>>> sharp blade. The animal dies instantly.
>> liar
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sorry to burst your bubble Janet, but cutting *anythings* throat (even
>>>> if the knife has no 'nicks or impurities', as if that really
>>>> matters!!) does *not* cause instant death.
>>>
>>>
>>> Death needn't be instant to be painless. When a vet puts down a sick
>>> animal death isn't instant either but it's absolutely painless. When
>>> a person undergoes surgery the anethesiologist ensures the procedure
>>> is painless too. When done correctly slitting the jugular is exactly
>>> the same as administering anethesia, the animal doesn't feel the knife
>>> nor is there any pain from the wound... the animal goes to sleep with
>>> no pain whatsoever, the same as you do during a TV commercial...
>>> unfortunately you wake up in the morning, still just as ignorant... at
>>> least the animal serves a purpose.
>>
>> Have you ever laid a blade and caused an animals death with any proof
>> of sesation of pain in a production environment ?
>>
>
> I'd say the closest that moron has ever come to laying a blade on an
> animal is using one to open the packet of meat it buys from the
> supermarket, then using another to cut it up on the plate.

all this crap is beside the point, because your concern about halal
slaughter is really fear of mooslims and their mooslim cooties.

blake

On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 10:44:42 +1000, Rod Outback wrote:

> Cutting an animals throat doesnt kill it instantly.
>
> Whenever I've slaughtered sheep for butchering(as well as watched
> professionals do it), the knife across the throat is followed by breaking
> the neck(probably only a few seconds afterwards), and at that point the
> animal isnt feeling any pain any more.
>
> About the only way I can think of for an instant kill is a bullet to the
> back of the head. You've still got to bleed the animal, though. I'd guess
> that the reason they cut it's throat first is to bleed it out before it
> dies, and not to kill it instantly.
>
> On an aside, Is the orientation of the body important for either Kosher or
> Halal slaughter?

yes, you must point the animal's head toward mecca.

your pal,
blake

On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 20:19:41 -0800, Bob Terwilliger wrote:

> Clueless AOL newbie Sheldon "Pussy" Katz blathered:
>
>> most pet owners choose not to be present when their animal is put down by
>> the vet.
>
> How strange. I've never seen anyone *not* want to be present. When my last
> dog was put down, her death was attended not only by Lin and me, but by the
> dog's original owner.
>
> I remember taking my dog to the vet once on a day where half-a-dozen people
> had brought their pets in to be put down. Every single one of the owners
> elected to be present. (And boy, did *that* put a damper on my day, even
> though my dog was perfectly fine!)
>
> Do you have a cite for this, or are you just parroting what you heard from
> the voices in your head?
>
> Bob

silly boy. does sheldom ever have a cite for anything? it's *all* the
voices in his head (which, by the way, are as stupid as he is).

your pal,
blake

Boron Elgar wrote:

> Take a look at some of Temple Grandin's writings about slaughter of
> all sorts.
>
> Boron

HBO did an excellent movie about her early life and her achievements. I
had no idea who she was before this but am very impressed since. She
just about singlehandedly revolutionized the slaughter business by
focusing on humane treatment of the animals.

Goomba wrote:
> Boron Elgar wrote:
>
>> Take a look at some of Temple Grandin's writings about slaughter of
>> all sorts.
>> Boron
>
> HBO did an excellent movie about her early life and her achievements. I
> had no idea who she was before this but am very impressed since. She
> just about singlehandedly revolutionized the slaughter business by
> focusing on humane treatment of the animals.



For anyone who hasn't heard of her, she is a PhD Professor of Animal
Science at Colorado State Univ. and has battled the effects of severe
autism all her life. She has a lot of bio information on Google.


gloria p

>Goomba wrote:
>> Boron Elgar wrote:
>>
>>> Take a look at some of Temple Grandin's writings about slaughter of
>>> all sorts.
>>> Boron
>>
>> HBO did an excellent movie about her early life and her achievements. I
>> had no idea who she was before this but am very impressed since. She
>> just about singlehandedly revolutionized the slaughter business by
>> focusing on humane treatment of the animals.



An excellent film. And she's autistic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_Grandin

"gloria.p" > wrote in -
september.org:


> For anyone who hasn't heard of her, she is a PhD Professor of Animal
> Science at Colorado State Univ. and has battled the effects of severe
> autism all her life. She has a lot of bio information on Google.
>
>
> gloria p
>



Thanks for that Gloria.

Just found her webpage and having a look at it now.


http://www.grandin.com/humane/rec.slaughter.html

and.....


http://www.grandin.com/ritual/slaugh...uses.pain.html

--
Peter Lucas
Hobart
Tasmania

"As viscous as motor oil swirled in a swamp, redolent of burnt bell
peppers nested in by incontinent mice and a finish reminiscent of the
dregs of a stale can of Coca-Cola that someone has been using as an
ashtray. Not a bad drink, though."

Excerpt from "The Moose Turd Wine Tasting" by T. A. Nonymous

Bwrrrryan wrote:
>
>But Obamacare won't let me die. I feel like Kenny on South Park.
>The death panels said I couldn't die without their permission, and if
>I do somehow manage to, I have to pay a fine to the socialist
>government.

I'd be honored to pay your fine.