Someone in our family has recently taken to spooning in a commercial powdered product called: 'Swiss vegetable Bouillon' into most of his hot cooked meals.

The contents of this a

Sea salt, hydrolised vegetable protein, potato starch, palm oil, vegetables 80% (celery, onions, carrots,leeks) lactose, spices (tumeric, white pepper, garlic, mace, nutmeg) parsley, lovage.

Nutritional Information
per 100g:
Energy 1018kJ/243kcal, Protein 10.5g, Carbohydrates 29.4g (of which sugars 8.4g), Fat 8.1g (of which saturates 4.0g), Fibre 0.7g, Sodium 17.6g, Potassium 0.82mg.

Are there any reasons why this might not be a very healthy thing to be doing?

john wrote on Wed, 6 Oct 2010 13:18:59 +0100:

> The contents of this a

> Sea salt, hydrolised vegetable protein, potato starch, palm
> oil, vegetables 80% (celery, onions, carrots,leeks) lactose,
> spices (tumeric, white pepper, garlic, mace, nutmeg) parsley,
> lovage.

> Nutritional Information
> per 100g:
> Energy 1018kJ/243kcal, Protein 10.5g, Carbohydrates 29.4g (of
> which sugars 8.4g), Fat 8.1g (of which saturates 4.0g), Fibre
> 0.7g, Sodium 17.6g, Potassium 0.82mg.

Like lots of commercial soup preparations, it's high on salt and the
amount of unhealthy fat (Palm) is excessive.

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

Hydrolysed vegetable protein is a code word for MSG.
It contains other free amino acids, but it is used
for its MSG content, and that is the second ingrediant
after salt. After that, we have starch and a fat that
is rich in saturated fat. About the only bad actor
missing from this cast is high fructose corn syrup.

In article >, says...
>
> Hydrolysed vegetable protein is a code word for MSG.
> It contains other free amino acids, but it is used
> for its MSG content, and that is the second ingrediant
> after salt. After that, we have starch and a fat that
> is rich in saturated fat. About the only bad actor
> missing from this cast is high fructose corn syrup.

Are you conflating glutamic acid with MSG? If so read a chemistry book.

"J. Clarke" wrote:
>
> In article >, says...
> >
> > Hydrolysed vegetable protein is a code word for MSG.
> > It contains other free amino acids, but it is used
> > for its MSG content, and that is the second ingrediant
> > after salt. After that, we have starch and a fat that
> > is rich in saturated fat. About the only bad actor
> > missing from this cast is high fructose corn syrup.
>
> Are you conflating glutamic acid with MSG? If so read a chemistry book.

A chemistry book will tell you that MSG separates
into free glutamate ion and sodium ion when it
dissolves in water. They are the same thing as
far as your body is concerned.

J. wrote on Wed, 6 Oct 2010 13:59:51 -0400:

> In article >,
> says...
>>
>> Hydrolysed vegetable protein is a code word for MSG.
>> It contains other free amino acids, but it is used
>> for its MSG content, and that is the second ingrediant
>> after salt. After that, we have starch and a fat that
>> is rich in saturated fat. About the only bad actor
>> missing from this cast is high fructose corn syrup.

>Are you conflating glutamic acid with MSG? If so read a chemistry
>book.

I don't know what you mean by "conflating". MSG is the mono sodium salt
of glutamic acid and dissolves to give glutamate ions and hence unami. I
am a professional chemist, by the way!

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

In article >, says...
>
> "J. Clarke" wrote:
> >
> > In article >, says...
> > >
> > > Hydrolysed vegetable protein is a code word for MSG.
> > > It contains other free amino acids, but it is used
> > > for its MSG content, and that is the second ingrediant
> > > after salt. After that, we have starch and a fat that
> > > is rich in saturated fat. About the only bad actor
> > > missing from this cast is high fructose corn syrup.
> >
> > Are you conflating glutamic acid with MSG? If so read a chemistry book.
>
> A chemistry book will tell you that MSG separates
> into free glutamate ion and sodium ion when it
> dissolves in water. They are the same thing as
> far as your body is concerned.

Not the point.

In article >,
says...
>
> J. wrote on Wed, 6 Oct 2010 13:59:51 -0400:
>
> > In article >,
> > says...
> >>
> >> Hydrolysed vegetable protein is a code word for MSG.
> >> It contains other free amino acids, but it is used
> >> for its MSG content, and that is the second ingrediant
> >> after salt. After that, we have starch and a fat that
> >> is rich in saturated fat. About the only bad actor
> >> missing from this cast is high fructose corn syrup.
>
> >Are you conflating glutamic acid with MSG? If so read a chemistry
> >book.
>
> I don't know what you mean by "conflating".

Then get a dictionary.

> MSG is the mono sodium salt
> of glutamic acid and dissolves to give glutamate ions and hence unami.

So is it your contention that everything that dissolves to give
glutamate ions is MSG? If not then what point _are_ you arguing?

> I am a professional chemist, by the way!

If true, that's frightening.

"J. Clarke" wrote:
>
> In article >, says...
> >
> > "J. Clarke" wrote:
> > >
> > > In article >, says...
> > > >
> > > > Hydrolysed vegetable protein is a code word for MSG.
> > > > It contains other free amino acids, but it is used
> > > > for its MSG content, and that is the second ingrediant
> > > > after salt. After that, we have starch and a fat that
> > > > is rich in saturated fat. About the only bad actor
> > > > missing from this cast is high fructose corn syrup.
> > >
> > > Are you conflating glutamic acid with MSG? If so read a chemistry book.
> >
> > A chemistry book will tell you that MSG separates
> > into free glutamate ion and sodium ion when it
> > dissolves in water. They are the same thing as
> > far as your body is concerned.
>
> Not the point.

Are you denying they are the same thing to
your body? If not, then I fail to see what
intelligent point you were trying to make.

J. wrote on Wed, 6 Oct 2010 16:04:52 -0400:

> In article >,
> says...
>>
>> J. wrote on Wed, 6 Oct 2010 13:59:51 -0400:
>>
> >> In article >,
> >> says...
> >>>
> >>> Hydrolysed vegetable protein is a code word for MSG.
> >>> It contains other free amino acids, but it is used
> >>> for its MSG content, and that is the second ingrediant
> >>> after salt. After that, we have starch and a fat that
> >>> is rich in saturated fat. About the only bad actor
> >>> missing from this cast is high fructose corn syrup.
>>
> >> Are you conflating glutamic acid with MSG? If so read a
> >> chemistry book.
>>
>> I don't know what you mean by "conflating".

> Then get a dictionary.

>> MSG is the mono sodium salt
>> of glutamic acid and dissolves to give glutamate ions and
>> hence unami.

> So is it your contention that everything that dissolves to
> give glutamate ions is MSG? If not then what point _are_ you
> arguing?

>> I am a professional chemist, by the way!

The ignorance displayed here is remarkable. Glutamic acid is
NH2-CH(CO2H) -CH2-CH2-CO2H. In MSG one of the H's in a CO2H group is
substituted by Sodium (Na). In solution, in other words in your gut, the
sodium is released and there will be glutamate ions whether you use
glutamic acid or mono-sodium glutamate. It's not that glutamates
dissolve to give MSG but MSG dissolves to give glutamates, so it doesn't
matter how you get your unami.

>If true, that's frightening.
--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

In article >,
says...
>
> J. wrote on Wed, 6 Oct 2010 16:04:52 -0400:
>
> > In article >,
> > says...
> >>
> >> J. wrote on Wed, 6 Oct 2010 13:59:51 -0400:
> >>
> > >> In article >,
> > >> says...
> > >>>
> > >>> Hydrolysed vegetable protein is a code word for MSG.
> > >>> It contains other free amino acids, but it is used
> > >>> for its MSG content, and that is the second ingrediant
> > >>> after salt. After that, we have starch and a fat that
> > >>> is rich in saturated fat. About the only bad actor
> > >>> missing from this cast is high fructose corn syrup.
> >>
> > >> Are you conflating glutamic acid with MSG? If so read a
> > >> chemistry book.
> >>
> >> I don't know what you mean by "conflating".
>
> > Then get a dictionary.
>
> >> MSG is the mono sodium salt
> >> of glutamic acid and dissolves to give glutamate ions and
> >> hence unami.
>
> > So is it your contention that everything that dissolves to
> > give glutamate ions is MSG? If not then what point _are_ you
> > arguing?
>
> >> I am a professional chemist, by the way!
>
> The ignorance displayed here is remarkable.

Multiple personality much? Or were you referring to something other
than your own claim to be a professional chemist?

> Glutamic acid is
> NH2-CH(CO2H) -CH2-CH2-CO2H. In MSG one of the H's in a CO2H group is
> substituted by Sodium (Na). In solution, in other words in your gut, the
> sodium is released and there will be glutamate ions whether you use
> glutamic acid or mono-sodium glutamate. It's not that glutamates
> dissolve to give MSG but MSG dissolves to give glutamates, so it doesn't
> matter how you get your unami.

That's nice. So what?

> >If true, that's frightening.

In article >, says...
>
> "J. Clarke" wrote:
> >
> > In article >, says...
> > >
> > > "J. Clarke" wrote:
> > > >
> > > > In article >, says...
> > > > >
> > > > > Hydrolysed vegetable protein is a code word for MSG.
> > > > > It contains other free amino acids, but it is used
> > > > > for its MSG content, and that is the second ingrediant
> > > > > after salt. After that, we have starch and a fat that
> > > > > is rich in saturated fat. About the only bad actor
> > > > > missing from this cast is high fructose corn syrup.
> > > >
> > > > Are you conflating glutamic acid with MSG? If so read a chemistry book.
> > >
> > > A chemistry book will tell you that MSG separates
> > > into free glutamate ion and sodium ion when it
> > > dissolves in water. They are the same thing as
> > > far as your body is concerned.
> >
> > Not the point.
>
> Are you denying they are the same thing to
> your body? If not, then I fail to see what
> intelligent point you were trying to make.

Google "potassium glutamate" and "ammonium glutamate". You are so
focussed on the "glutamate" part that you totally ignore the
"monosodium" part, just like your buddy the self-proclaimed
"professional chemist".

All glutamates are not monosodium glutamate. By claiming that they are
you show yourself for an ignorant clod.

On Wed, 6 Oct 2010 17:53:58 -0400, "James Silverton"
> wrote:

> J. wrote on Wed, 6 Oct 2010 16:04:52 -0400:
>
>> In article >,
>> says...
>>>
>>> J. wrote on Wed, 6 Oct 2010 13:59:51 -0400:
>>>
>> >> In article >,
>> >> says...
>> >>>
>> >>> Hydrolysed vegetable protein is a code word for MSG.
>> >>> It contains other free amino acids, but it is used
>> >>> for its MSG content, and that is the second ingrediant
>> >>> after salt. After that, we have starch and a fat that
>> >>> is rich in saturated fat. About the only bad actor
>> >>> missing from this cast is high fructose corn syrup.
>>>
>> >> Are you conflating glutamic acid with MSG? If so read a
>> >> chemistry book.
>>>
>>> I don't know what you mean by "conflating".
>
>> Then get a dictionary.
>
>>> MSG is the mono sodium salt
>>> of glutamic acid and dissolves to give glutamate ions and
>>> hence unami.
>
>> So is it your contention that everything that dissolves to
>> give glutamate ions is MSG? If not then what point _are_ you
>> arguing?
>
>>> I am a professional chemist, by the way!
>
>The ignorance displayed here is remarkable. Glutamic acid is
>NH2-CH(CO2H) -CH2-CH2-CO2H. In MSG one of the H's in a CO2H group is
>substituted by Sodium (Na). In solution, in other words in your gut, the
>sodium is released and there will be glutamate ions whether you use
>glutamic acid or mono-sodium glutamate. It's not that glutamates
>dissolve to give MSG but MSG dissolves to give glutamates, so it doesn't
>matter how you get your unami.

I didn't need to know all that ~ LOL ~ I love Chinese food with MSG. I
use MSG in lots of my home cooking to cut back on NACL and it's a far
better flavor enhancer than NACL... MSG is six times more potent a
flavor enhancer. I like Accent better than the generic, the
consistancy of Accent is largish crystals, doesn't clump like the
cheaper powdery stuff. I can buy large containers of Accent at Sam's
Club for cheop. There is nothing bad about MSG, no one is allergic to
it, or they'd be dead because MSG occurs naturally in many common
foods including breast milk. Chinese restaurant syndrome is a myth,
debunked years ago... if one ate an entire large bag of salty potato
chips if they had the propensity they'd suffer those same symptoms,
they're from overdosing on ordinary salt, Chinese cooks use a lot of
salt, they use little MSG because it costs a lot more than ordinary
table salt.

On Wed, 6 Oct 2010 17:15:03 +0100, Janet > wrote:

>In article >,
says...
>>
>> On Wed, 6 Oct 2010 09:43:51 -0400, James Silverton wrote:
>>
>> > john wrote on Wed, 6 Oct 2010 13:18:59 +0100:
>> >
>> >> The contents of this a
>> >
>> >> Sea salt, hydrolised vegetable protein, potato starch, palm
>> >> oil, vegetables 80% (celery, onions, carrots,leeks) lactose,
>> >> spices (tumeric, white pepper, garlic, mace, nutmeg) parsley,
>> >> lovage.
>> >
>> >> Nutritional Information
>> >> per 100g:
>> >> Energy 1018kJ/243kcal, Protein 10.5g, Carbohydrates 29.4g (of
>> >> which sugars 8.4g), Fat 8.1g (of which saturates 4.0g), Fibre
>> >> 0.7g, Sodium 17.6g, Potassium 0.82mg.
>> >
>> > Like lots of commercial soup preparations, it's high on salt and the
>> > amount of unhealthy fat (Palm) is excessive.
>>
>> There's a somewhat negligible amount of fat in that product.
>
> ? 8 % fat, is not exactly negligible
> Whole milk, is 3.5 fat.

Maybe you chug-a-lug whole milk by the gallon.

Eight grams of fat is a miniscule quantity considering how little of
that hundred gram product would be consumed for each serving. Folks
would no more consume an entire gallon of milk in one sitting as they
would soup.

"Brooklyn1" <Gravesend1> wrote in message ...

| I didn't need to know all that ~ LOL ~ I love Chinese food with MSG. I
| use MSG in lots of my home cooking to cut back on NACL and it's a far
| better flavor enhancer than NACL... MSG is six times more potent a
| flavor enhancer. I like Accent better than the generic, the
| consistancy of Accent is largish crystals, doesn't clump like the
| cheaper powdery stuff.

...."Mein Fuhrer, I can walk."...

"J. Clarke" wrote:
>
> In article >, says...
> >
> > Are you denying they are the same thing to
> > your body? If not, then I fail to see what
> > intelligent point you were trying to make.
>
> Google "potassium glutamate" and "ammonium glutamate". You are so
> focussed on the "glutamate" part that you totally ignore the
> "monosodium" part, just like your buddy the self-proclaimed
> "professional chemist".
>
> All glutamates are not monosodium glutamate. By claiming that they are
> you show yourself for an ignorant clod.

Ah, yes. The straw man argument. You are
claiming I said all glutamates are the same,
and then attacking me for something I never
said. That's the argument used when unintelligent
people can't win on the facts.

What I said is that MSG becomes glutamate ion
and sodium ion when it dissolves in water.
To your body, all glutamate ions are the same.
The counterion is a minor player, because you
use much less MSG than salt.

The counterion in hydrolyzed vegetable protein
is likely to be sodium anyhow, in which case
the glutamate will be mostly in the form of MSG.

On Wed, 6 Oct 2010 19:58:05 -0400 in rec.food.cooking, "J. Clarke"
> wrote,
>Google "potassium glutamate" and "ammonium glutamate". You are so
>focussed on the "glutamate" part that you totally ignore the
>"monosodium" part, just like your buddy the self-proclaimed
>"professional chemist".

And why not? It's the glutamate ion that maters, if anything. A little
sodium or potassium here or there is a drop in the bucket.

>All glutamates are not monosodium glutamate.

But in solution they are generally equal and interchangeable, right?

In article >, says...
>
> "J. Clarke" wrote:
> >
> > In article >, says...
> > >
> > > Are you denying they are the same thing to
> > > your body? If not, then I fail to see what
> > > intelligent point you were trying to make.
> >
> > Google "potassium glutamate" and "ammonium glutamate". You are so
> > focussed on the "glutamate" part that you totally ignore the
> > "monosodium" part, just like your buddy the self-proclaimed
> > "professional chemist".
> >
> > All glutamates are not monosodium glutamate. By claiming that they are
> > you show yourself for an ignorant clod.
>
> Ah, yes. The straw man argument. You are
> claiming I said all glutamates are the same,
> and then attacking me for something I never
> said. That's the argument used when unintelligent
> people can't win on the facts.
>
> What I said is that MSG becomes glutamate ion
> and sodium ion when it dissolves in water.
> To your body, all glutamate ions are the same.
> The counterion is a minor player, because you
> use much less MSG than salt.
>
> The counterion in hydrolyzed vegetable protein
> is likely to be sodium anyhow, in which case
> the glutamate will be mostly in the form of MSG.

Yeah, you make an argument, and when it falls flat you lie and claim you
never made that argument.

<plonk>

On Oct 6, 4:58*pm, "J. Clarke" > wrote:
> In article >, says...
>
>
>
>
>
> > "J. Clarke" wrote:
>
> > > In article >, says...
>
> > > > "J. Clarke" wrote:
>
> > > > > In article >, says....
>
> > > > > > Hydrolysed vegetable protein is a code word for MSG.
> > > > > > It contains other free amino acids, but it is used
> > > > > > for its MSG content, and that is the second ingrediant
> > > > > > after salt. *After that, we have starch and a fat that
> > > > > > is rich in saturated fat. *About the only bad actor
> > > > > > missing from this cast is high fructose corn syrup.
>
> > > > > Are you conflating glutamic acid with MSG? *If so read a chemistry book.
>
> > > > A chemistry book will tell you that MSG separates
> > > > into free glutamate ion and sodium ion when it
> > > > dissolves in water. *They are the same thing as
> > > > far as your body is concerned.
>
> > > Not the point.
>
> > Are you denying they are the same thing to
> > your body? *If not, then I fail to see what
> > intelligent point you were trying to make.
>
> Google "potassium glutamate" and "ammonium glutamate". *You are so
> focussed on the "glutamate" part that you totally ignore the
> "monosodium" part, just like your buddy the self-proclaimed
> "professional chemist".
>
> All glutamates are not monosodium glutamate. *By claiming that they are
> you show yourself for an ignorant clod.


Hidden names of MSG:

http://www.msgmyth.com/hidename.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monosodium_glutamate

United States

Monosodium glutamate is one of several forms of glutamic acid found in
foods, in large part because glutamic acid, being an amino acid, is
pervasive in nature. Glutamic acid and its salts can also be present
in a wide variety of other additives, including hydrolyzed vegetable
proteins, autolyzed yeast, hydrolyzed yeast, yeast extract, soy
extracts, and protein isolate, which must be labeled with these common
and usual names. Since 1998, these cannot be included in the term
"spices and flavorings". The food additives disodium inosinate and
disodium guanylate, which are nucleic acids, are usually used in
synergy with monosodium glutamate-containing ingredients.

The FDA considers labels such as "No MSG" or "No Added MSG" to be
misleading if the food contains ingredients that are sources of free
glutamate, such as hydrolyzed protein. In 1993, the FDA proposed
adding the phrase "(contains glutamate)" to the common or usual names
of certain protein hydrolysates that contain substantial amounts of
glutamate.

In the 2004 version of his book On Food and Cooking, food scientist
Harold McGee states that "[after many studies], toxicologists have
concluded that MSG is a harmless ingredient for most people, even in
large amounts."[18]

On Oct 9, 9:41*pm, "J. Clarke" > wrote:
> In article >, says...
>
>
>
>
>
> > "J. Clarke" wrote:
>
> > > In article >, says...
>
> > > > Are you denying they are the same thing to
> > > > your body? *If not, then I fail to see what
> > > > intelligent point you were trying to make.
>
> > > Google "potassium glutamate" and "ammonium glutamate". *You are so
> > > focussed on the "glutamate" part that you totally ignore the
> > > "monosodium" part, just like your buddy the self-proclaimed
> > > "professional chemist".
>
> > > All glutamates are not monosodium glutamate. *By claiming that they are
> > > you show yourself for an ignorant clod.
>
> > Ah, yes. *The straw man argument. *You are
> > claiming I said all glutamates are the same,
> > and then attacking me for something I never
> > said. *That's the argument used when unintelligent
> > people can't win on the facts.
>
> > What I said is that MSG becomes glutamate ion
> > and sodium ion when it dissolves in water.
> > To your body, all glutamate ions are the same.
> > The counterion is a minor player, because you
> > use much less MSG than salt.
>
> > The counterion in hydrolyzed vegetable protein
> > is likely to be sodium anyhow, in which case
> > the glutamate will be mostly in the form of MSG.
>
> Yeah, you make an argument, and when it falls flat you lie and claim you
> never made that argument.
>
> <plonk>


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monosodium_glutamate

Monosodium glutamate is one of several forms of glutamic acid found in
foods, in large part because glutamic acid, being an amino acid, is
pervasive in nature. Glutamic acid and its salts can also be present
in a wide variety of other additives, including hydrolyzed vegetable
proteins,

David Harmon wrote:
>
> On Wed, 6 Oct 2010 19:58:05 -0400 in rec.food.cooking, "J. Clarke"
> > wrote,
> >Google "potassium glutamate" and "ammonium glutamate". You are so
> >focussed on the "glutamate" part that you totally ignore the
> >"monosodium" part, just like your buddy the self-proclaimed
> >"professional chemist".
>
> And why not? It's the glutamate ion that maters, if anything. A little
> sodium or potassium here or there is a drop in the bucket.
>
> >All glutamates are not monosodium glutamate.
>
> But in solution they are generally equal and interchangeable, right?

He seems to be trying to spin it as if they're not,
as if he had some intelligent point to make in his
earlier posting.

"J. Clarke" wrote:
>
> In article >, says...
> >
> > "J. Clarke" wrote:
> > >
> > > In article >, says...
> > > >
> > > > Are you denying they are the same thing to
> > > > your body? If not, then I fail to see what
> > > > intelligent point you were trying to make.
> > >
> > > Google "potassium glutamate" and "ammonium glutamate". You are so
> > > focussed on the "glutamate" part that you totally ignore the
> > > "monosodium" part, just like your buddy the self-proclaimed
> > > "professional chemist".
> > >
> > > All glutamates are not monosodium glutamate. By claiming that they are
> > > you show yourself for an ignorant clod.
> >
> > Ah, yes. The straw man argument. You are
> > claiming I said all glutamates are the same,
> > and then attacking me for something I never
> > said. That's the argument used when unintelligent
> > people can't win on the facts.
> >
> > What I said is that MSG becomes glutamate ion
> > and sodium ion when it dissolves in water.
> > To your body, all glutamate ions are the same.
> > The counterion is a minor player, because you
> > use much less MSG than salt.
> >
> > The counterion in hydrolyzed vegetable protein
> > is likely to be sodium anyhow, in which case
> > the glutamate will be mostly in the form of MSG.
>
> Yeah, you make an argument, and when it falls flat you lie and claim you
> never made that argument.
>
> <plonk>

Ah, yes. The LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU argument.
This is used by fools when they are exposed as fools
by their betters.