I am and have always been a live and let live sort of person. In
this lifetime I have gone through several stages of food preferences.
I was raised as a meat eater. In my adult years I've done
vegetarian, ovo-lacto vegetarian, vegan, etc. At present I'm eating
like the omnivore I personally think we all are at our core. I eat
all kinds of meats.

I have no problem with people who choose not to eat animal flesh or
products. It is their persoal choice.
Far be it from me to tell someone else how to eat.

Which brings me to the point of this post.

I'm really tired of those who choose to eat no flesh, or only
particular kinds of flesh looking down their noses at others and
calling themselves "ethical eaters" as if those of us who choose to
eat meat are unethical persons. (especially if those particular
name callers are wearing leather of any sort)

I consider myself a caring person. I care how the meat I eat was
raised, how it was killed, what it was fed and how it was treated.
There may be a time in my life where I choose once again not to eat
meat. But it is my choice to make and I will not make it because some
judgemental person is shaking their finger in my face and telling me
I'm a bad person.

Am I alone in feeling this way???

On 8/11/2010 1:00 PM, ImStillMags wrote:
> I am and have always been a live and let live sort of person. In
> this lifetime I have gone through several stages of food preferences.
> I was raised as a meat eater. In my adult years I've done
> vegetarian, ovo-lacto vegetarian, vegan, etc. At present I'm eating
> like the omnivore I personally think we all are at our core. I eat
> all kinds of meats.
>
> I have no problem with people who choose not to eat animal flesh or
> products. It is their persoal choice.
> Far be it from me to tell someone else how to eat.
>
> Which brings me to the point of this post.
>
> I'm really tired of those who choose to eat no flesh, or only
> particular kinds of flesh looking down their noses at others and
> calling themselves "ethical eaters" as if those of us who choose to
> eat meat are unethical persons. (especially if those particular
> name callers are wearing leather of any sort)
>
> I consider myself a caring person. I care how the meat I eat was
> raised, how it was killed, what it was fed and how it was treated.
> There may be a time in my life where I choose once again not to eat
> meat. But it is my choice to make and I will not make it because some
> judgemental person is shaking their finger in my face and telling me
> I'm a bad person.
>
> Am I alone in feeling this way???
>
>
>
Not really. If the apocalypse comes I intend to view vegetarians of all
ilk as prey.

On 8/11/2010 2:00 PM, ImStillMags wrote:
> I am and have always been a live and let live sort of person. In
> this lifetime I have gone through several stages of food preferences.
> I was raised as a meat eater. In my adult years I've done
> vegetarian, ovo-lacto vegetarian, vegan, etc. At present I'm eating
> like the omnivore I personally think we all are at our core. I eat
> all kinds of meats.
>
> I have no problem with people who choose not to eat animal flesh or
> products. It is their persoal choice.
> Far be it from me to tell someone else how to eat.
>
> Which brings me to the point of this post.
>
> I'm really tired of those who choose to eat no flesh, or only
> particular kinds of flesh looking down their noses at others and
> calling themselves "ethical eaters" as if those of us who choose to
> eat meat are unethical persons. (especially if those particular
> name callers are wearing leather of any sort)
>
> I consider myself a caring person. I care how the meat I eat was
> raised, how it was killed, what it was fed and how it was treated.
> There may be a time in my life where I choose once again not to eat
> meat. But it is my choice to make and I will not make it because some
> judgemental person is shaking their finger in my face and telling me
> I'm a bad person.
>
> Am I alone in feeling this way???
>
>
>
Definitely not! If there is one thing I can't stand, it's the
"self-righteous" attitudes of some people.

There are plenty of people who don't eat certain things out of ethics,
religion or as a health choice that don't make a big deal out of it.
It's the people who, as you say, "shake a finger" that annoy me. It's
not just their eating, either.

I am really annoyed by those who think I'm going to hell (which,k BTW is
their version of hell, not mine) because I don't accept their belief as
the "only true" one. Then there are the political jerks who think that
everyone who doesn't subscribe to their own brand of political dogma are
traitors and unpatriotic.

It makes me wonder if any of them have a clue on the founding principals
of America.

Rant off.
--



Janet Wilder
Posting from the Netbaby

On 8/11/2010 2:21 PM, aem wrote:
> On Aug 11, 11:00 am, > wrote:
> .....
>> I'm really tired of those who choose to eat no flesh, or only
>> particular kinds of flesh looking down their noses at others and
>> calling themselves "ethical eaters" as if those of us who choose to
>> eat meat are unethical persons. ....
>>
>> Am I alone in feeling this way???
>
> No, true believers **** off even the tolerant. Eric Hoffer's classic
> "The True Believer" is as true now as when it was written more than
> fifty years ago. Read it if you want to understand better how
> people's beliefs warp their behavior. -aem

I'd rather just avoid those people than try to understand them, but
thanks for the reference.

--



Janet Wilder
Posting from the Netbaby

>
> *I consider myself a caring person. *I care how the meat I eat was
> raised, how it was killed, what it was fed and how it was treated.
> There may be a time in my life where I choose once again not to eat
> meat. *But it is my choice to make and I will not make it because some
> judgemental person is shaking their finger in my face and telling me
> I'm a bad person.
>
> Am I alone in feeling this way???

thank you. i agree with you 100%.

Harriet & critters (handsome harley who is still resting his eyes
after a big brekkie; phatty tabby catty who is doing the same; and ms
tabby ann (aka crazy girl) lurking somewhere else.)

On Aug 11, 11:00 am, ImStillMags > wrote:
.....
> I'm really tired of those who choose to eat no flesh, or only
> particular kinds of flesh looking down their noses at others and
> calling themselves "ethical eaters" as if those of us who choose to
> eat meat are unethical persons. ....
>
> Am I alone in feeling this way???

No, true believers **** off even the tolerant. Eric Hoffer's classic
"The True Believer" is as true now as when it was written more than
fifty years ago. Read it if you want to understand better how
people's beliefs warp their behavior. -aem

ImStillMags wrote:
>
> I'm really tired of those who choose to eat no flesh, or only
> particular kinds of flesh looking down their noses at others and
> calling themselves "ethical eaters" as if those of us who choose to
> eat meat are unethical persons. (especially if those particular
> name callers are wearing leather of any sort)

But that's why they are vegetarians. They want
to have some basis for feeling superior to you.

On Aug 11, 11:34*am, Mark Thorson > wrote:
> ImStillMags wrote:
>
> > I'm really tired of those who choose to eat no flesh, or only
> > particular kinds of flesh looking down their noses at others and
> > calling themselves "ethical eaters" as if those of us who choose to
> > eat meat are unethical persons. * *(especially if those particular
> > name callers are wearing leather of any sort)
>
> But that's why they are vegetarians. *They want
> to have some basis for feeling superior to you.

I don't believe that's true for every vegetarian....maybe for a few.
I just think they get caught up in the 'rightousness" of it all...then
they get defensive if you say 'it's your choice'.

Maybe they don't understand individual preferences and choice.

ImStillMags wrote:
>
> On Aug 11, 11:34 am, Mark Thorson > wrote:
> >
> > But that's why they are vegetarians. They want
> > to have some basis for feeling superior to you.
>
> I don't believe that's true for every vegetarian....maybe for a few.
> I just think they get caught up in the 'rightousness" of it all...then
> they get defensive if you say 'it's your choice'.
>
> Maybe they don't understand individual preferences and choice.

That's a typical thing for a meat-eater to say!

On Aug 11, 11:54*am, Mark Thorson > wrote:
> ImStillMags wrote:
>
> > On Aug 11, 11:34 am, Mark Thorson > wrote:
>
> > > But that's why they are vegetarians. *They want
> > > to have some basis for feeling superior to you.
>
> > I don't believe that's true for every vegetarian....maybe for a few.
> > I just think they get caught up in the 'rightousness" of it all...then
> > they get defensive if you say 'it's your choice'.
>
> > Maybe they don't understand individual preferences and choice.
>
> That's a typical thing for a meat-eater to say!

:-D

ImStillMags wrote:
>
> At present I'm eating
> like the omnivore I personally think we all are at our core.

I find it tiresome that some vegans assert that humans are herbivores.
So their way of eating is so contrary to some drive inside them that it
makes them lie about something as clear as comparative anatomy?

> I'm really tired of those who choose to eat no flesh, or only
> particular kinds of flesh looking down their noses at others and
> calling themselves "ethical eaters" as if those of us who choose to
> eat meat are unethical persons. (especially if those particular
> name callers are wearing leather of any sort)
>
> Am I alone in feeling this way???

It's extremist rhetoric. There are good political, ecological or
religious reasons for wanting to not eat meat. There are incorrect
reasons based on claims about health. And there are extremist reasons
that require obnoxious rhetoric.

On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 11:00:23 -0700 (PDT), ImStillMags
> wrote:


> I consider myself a caring person. I care how the meat I eat was
>raised, how it was killed, what it was fed and how it was treated.
>There may be a time in my life where I choose once again not to eat
>meat. But it is my choice to make and I will not make it because some
>judgemental person is shaking their finger in my face and telling me
>I'm a bad person.

This may brighten your day... See:

http://www.arcamax.com/rubes

Comic of 8/11 about castaway cows.

Alex

On Aug 11, 12:30*pm, Alex Corvinus > wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 11:00:23 -0700 (PDT), ImStillMags
>
> > wrote:
> > I consider myself a caring person. *I care how the meat I eat was
> >raised, how it was killed, what it was fed and how it was treated.
> >There may be a time in my life where I choose once again not to eat
> >meat. *But it is my choice to make and I will not make it because some
> >judgemental person is shaking their finger in my face and telling me
> >I'm a bad person.
>
> This may brighten your day... See:
>
> http://www.arcamax.com/rubes
>
> Comic of 8/11 about castaway cows.
>
> Alex

This is my favorite:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IJBbtkBMMs

"ImStillMags" > wrote in message
...
>I am and have always been a live and let live sort of person. In
> this lifetime I have gone through several stages of food preferences.
> I was raised as a meat eater. In my adult years I've done
> vegetarian, ovo-lacto vegetarian, vegan, etc. At present I'm eating
> like the omnivore I personally think we all are at our core. I eat
> all kinds of meats.
>
> I have no problem with people who choose not to eat animal flesh or
> products. It is their persoal choice.
> Far be it from me to tell someone else how to eat.
>
> Which brings me to the point of this post.
>
> I'm really tired of those who choose to eat no flesh, or only
> particular kinds of flesh looking down their noses at others and
> calling themselves "ethical eaters" as if those of us who choose to
> eat meat are unethical persons. (especially if those particular
> name callers are wearing leather of any sort)
>
> I consider myself a caring person. I care how the meat I eat was
> raised, how it was killed, what it was fed and how it was treated.
> There may be a time in my life where I choose once again not to eat
> meat. But it is my choice to make and I will not make it because some
> judgemental person is shaking their finger in my face and telling me
> I'm a bad person.
>
> Am I alone in feeling this way???

Tell ya something about those "ethical eaters" - they further divide
themselves into categories consisting of those of lesser worth than
themselves. Vegans for example come in more than one flavor, if you will.
You have the "ethical" vegans and then you have the dietary vegans. Of
course the "ethical" vegans look down their noses with contempt at those who
would practice the vegan religion solely for health reasons. They are
loathed and spat upon as poseurs and imposters. Then you have the "ethical"
vegans who would actually cook in a kitchen that was not thoroughly pure
i.e. at some point meat had been prepared in it. I kid you not. Of course
that higher class of "ethical" vegan looks down their nose with contempt at
the wannabee vegans who do not share their beliefs.

It's a disease really. It's basically a form of narcissism, of self
aggrandizement. If a person wants to be a vegan that's fine and they can be
as true as they wish but when they start using that as an excuse to feel
superior to their own peers then it becomes a mental health issue. It just
manifests itself as a cause not at all unlike fanatics of religious
persuasions.

I've known way too may vegans in my life. And without exception they were
all whack jobs of the highest order with lives more f*&^%#d up than a person
has a right to be. Not because they eschew meat or animal products, but
each and every one of them had a serious problem between their ears. They
are basically just latching on to what they perceive as a superior moral
issue to replace an existing sense of identity which is either lacking in
them or one that they loathe. Without exception they were all terrible self
loathers but the veganism at least made them feel superior if only in their
own minds.

Paul

On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 11:00:23 -0700 (PDT), ImStillMags
> wrote:

> I consider myself a caring person. I care how the meat I eat was
> raised, how it was killed, what it was fed and how it was treated.
> There may be a time in my life where I choose once again not to eat
> meat. But it is my choice to make and I will not make it because some
> judgemental person is shaking their finger in my face and telling me
> I'm a bad person.
>
> Am I alone in feeling this way???

No. Fortunately, that type is not lurking among my friends or
relatives.

--

Forget the health food. I need all the preservatives I can get.

On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 14:14:47 -0400, Janet Wilder
> wrote:

> I am really annoyed by those who think I'm going to hell (which,k BTW is
> their version of hell, not mine) because I don't accept their belief as
> the "only true" one. Then there are the political jerks who think that
> everyone who doesn't subscribe to their own brand of political dogma are
> traitors and unpatriotic.

I don't believe in an avenging god, my god is forgiving.... and with
such a forgiving god, there can be no hell. My fallen catholic
husband bought it and we'll live until we die.

--

Forget the health food. I need all the preservatives I can get.

On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 14:16:22 -0400, Janet Wilder
> wrote:

> I'd rather just avoid those people than try to understand them,

DITTO! I don't need the grief.

--

Forget the health food. I need all the preservatives I can get.

I remember my brother having a cookout once and I asked how much meat I should bring (had to grab some burgers and that for those who didn't want the brisket). H etold me that two of his neighbors were not meat-eaters. I asked if they ate something special I should pick up (garden burgers or whatever.) He said that they always brought their own food.

I'm picturing Mr. and Mrs. Mahatma Gandhi. I get back to the Q and these two icebergs with feet (they were both dressed in white) are sitting on lawn chairs that are just a screaming for their lives. They informed me of their dislike of taking an animal life. I'm cool with that. Leaves more meat for me. At least they weren't passing judgement. When brother has a BBQ, you can add pigs, chickens and cows to the endangered species list. Lots of carnivores there.

They proceeded to open and consume, entirely, three different bags (family sized) of Doritos, Cheetos and some kind of Potato chip.

To each his own. I eat meat in moderation. I hunt, too. But nothing flavors veggies better than meat, man.

I've known vegans who were staright up cool; and others the way I'm seeing outlined on here. There's a-hole carnivores, too.

"ImStillMags" wrote

> I'm really tired of those who choose to eat no flesh, or only
> particular kinds of flesh looking down their noses at others and
> calling themselves "ethical eaters" as if those of us who choose to
> eat meat are unethical persons. (especially if those particular
> name callers are wearing leather of any sort)

Funny you should post this just now!

As I've mentioned we have our little neighborhood gatherings almost every
weekend and normally in my back porch. A conversation cropped up last time
that we should have some fun with some ethnic eating.

Now, I live in a very diverse area and we *often* adjust a weekend or so
around diet needs (in fact, last weekend it was a totally peanut and other
nut free zone so the 2 kids with serious allergies didn't have to worry).
So, I posted it to our little group and 4 families with dietary laws
combined to together for the next fun meal. They are making little cards
with the recipes and adding little funny cheat sheets about the religious
restrictions. Of course, we all amicably agreed the sets did *not* have to
meet the other's restrictions nor are these actual people overtly strict
(they know the rules but don't always follow them at home or at picnics).

Should be fun! To keep costs down for the preparers, this time the
attendees split up evenly to purchase the bits and trott them over. Looks
like they have most of it now.

The only time we had a problem with a 'look down your nose person' we just
removed them from the group. She was snooty though over income and abusing
folks over not being able to afford 100$ amounts a week vice meat eating and
stuff like that. Really rude to some of the folks on limited income who
would proudly present truely terrific dishes of simple inexpensive things.
Anyways, most of us spend not much more than 5$ a week on this. Not much
more than we would on a standard meal, just gathered as a group. 'Snooty
people need not apply' here.

On Aug 11, 3:10*pm, "cshenk" > wrote:
> "ImStillMags" wrote
>
> > I'm really tired of those who choose to eat no flesh, or only
> > particular kinds of flesh looking down their noses at others and
> > calling themselves "ethical eaters" as if those of us who choose to
> > eat meat are unethical persons. * *(especially if those particular
> > name callers are wearing leather of any sort)
>
> Funny you should post this just now!
>
> As I've mentioned we have our little neighborhood gatherings almost every
> weekend and normally in my back porch. *A conversation cropped up last time
> that we should have some fun with some ethnic eating.
>
> Now, I live in a very diverse area and we *often* adjust a weekend or so
> around diet needs (in fact, last weekend it was a totally peanut and other
> nut free zone so the 2 kids with serious allergies didn't have to worry).
> So, I posted it to our little group and 4 families with dietary laws
> combined to together for the next fun meal. *They are making little cards
> with the recipes and adding little funny cheat sheets about the religious
> restrictions. *Of course, we all amicably agreed the sets did *not* have to
> meet the other's restrictions nor are these actual people overtly strict
> (they know the rules but don't always follow them at home or at picnics).


That sounds like fun. Learning about other culture's foods and
being able to sample them via home cooking at the same time!
Neat idea!

I bet the snooty bitch knows she's missing out.

"ImStillMags" wrote
"cshenk" wrote:

>> As I've mentioned we have our little neighborhood gatherings almost every
>> weekend and normally in my back porch. A conversation cropped up last
>> time
>> that we should have some fun with some ethnic eating.

> That sounds like fun. Learning about other culture's foods and
> being able to sample them via home cooking at the same time!
> Neat idea!

It is! It's not super fancy stuff that we do, although it may *sound* like
it to one not used to it. Injera (hope i spelled it right) is part of what
I expect to try. A flat bread I've never had. Not hard to make if you have
a clue on what it is supposed to be like. We also have a chickpea salad and
some sort of goat meat with yogurt and spices to try. Many 'things' and no
one expects perfect, just an idea of home cooking.

It's not like these friends of ours haven't had our hushpuppies, hot dogs
and hamburgers! Now they are enthused by treating us to something new and we
wanna check it out.

> I bet the snooty bitch knows she's missing out.

She found that out 2 years ago. I felt bad about it but fact is she made
others feel so bad it was her or the majority of thr neighborhood. Probably
the kickpoint was when a retired widower on a fixed income brought a really
great franks and beans then she dissed it over being not 5$ a lb franks or
imported honey for the beans.

I'm, sorry. I guess I am still angry at this bitch. It's possibly wrong of
me but she did so much damage. To her feeling, I am the 'bitch' who cut her
off. I just look back and see Charlotte's face fall as her franks and beans
got dissed by 'the bitch'. We kicked the bitch out but I am not sure
Charotte really absorbed we ate her pot offereing to the dregs before that.

She has a fine art with simple things. It was chicken franks, a mix of
dried beans, Honey and bell peppers. Balanced to perfection. Difficult as
it *may* sound to make that work, it was the fastest thing to get seconds,
3rds and was all gone faster than the steaks.

[quote=cshenk;1517523]"ImStillMags" wrote
"cshenk" wrote:

As I've mentioned we have our little neighborhood gatherings almost every
weekend and normally in my back porch. A conversation cropped up last
time
that we should have some fun with some ethnic eating.

That sounds like fun. Learning about other culture's foods and
being able to sample them via home cooking at the same time!
Neat idea!

It is! It's not super fancy stuff that we do, although it may *sound* like
it to one not used to it. Injera (hope i spelled it right) is part of what
I expect to try. A flat bread I've never had. Not hard to make if you have
a clue on what it is supposed to be like. We also have a chickpea salad and
some sort of goat meat with yogurt and spices to try. Many 'things' and no
one expects perfect, just an idea of home cooking.

It's not like these friends of ours haven't had our hushpuppies, hot dogs
and hamburgers! Now they are enthused by treating us to something new and we
wanna check it out.

I bet the snooty bitch knows she's missing out.

She found that out 2 years ago. I felt bad about it but fact is she made
others feel so bad it was her or the majority of thr neighborhood. Probably
the kickpoint was when a retired widower on a fixed income brought a really
great franks and beans then she dissed it over being not 5$ a lb franks or
imported honey for the beans.

I'm, sorry. I guess I am still angry at this bitch. It's possibly wrong of
me but she did so much damage. To her feeling, I am the 'bitch' who cut her
off. I just look back and see Charlotte's face fall as her franks and beans
got dissed by 'the bitch'. We kicked the bitch out but I am not sure
Charotte really absorbed we ate her pot offereing to the dregs before that.

She has a fine art with simple things. It was chicken franks, a mix of
dried beans, Honey and bell peppers. Balanced to perfection. Difficult as
it *may* sound to make that work, it was the fastest thing to get seconds,
3rds and was all gone faster than the steaks.[/QUO

That's as good as it gets.

"I bet the snooty bitch knows she's missing out."

You know it! She'll never let on, though. Pride makes idiots like that lose out on more than food.

Good for you. Good for Charlotte, too. Hope she's over it. Of course, she'll recover much more quickly than Ms. Bitchtits.

Sitara wrote:

> I'm really tired of those who choose to eat no flesh, or only
> particular kinds of flesh looking down their noses at others and
> calling themselves "ethical eaters" as if those of us who choose to
> eat meat are unethical persons. (especially if those particular
> name callers are wearing leather of any sort)

If someone is a vegetarian because of his or her *personal* ethical
standards, then that person is following an ethical diet. Doesn't imply a
single thing about the ethics of anybody else or the ethics of society. Fact
is, we're ALL ethical eaters, right? None of us include things in our diet
if we strongly disapprove of them. That makes us ethical as all get-out.
(Guilty pleasures are a whole different ballpark.)

So if someone refers to himself or herself as an "ethical eater" (meaning
vegan or some other nonsense) and you feel the need to respond, just say,
"I'm an ethical eater too: I just have ethics which are less FREAKISH than
yours!"

Bob

On Aug 11, 11:00*am, ImStillMags > wrote:
r
>
> I'm really tired of those who choose to eat no flesh, or only
> particular kinds of flesh looking down their noses at others and
> calling themselves "ethical eaters" as if those of us who choose to
> eat meat are unethical persons. * *(especially if those particular
> name callers are wearing leather of any sort)
>
> *I consider myself a caring person. *I care how the meat I eat was
> raised, how it was killed, what it was fed and how it was treated.
> There may be a time in my life where I choose once again not to eat
> meat. *But it is my choice to make and I will not make it because some
> judgemental person is shaking their finger in my face and telling me
> I'm a bad person.
>
> Am I alone in feeling this way???

But think of all the water it takes to raise a pound of meant! People
in the Third World are dying from a lack of pure water. And think how
much grain it takes to grow a pound of meat! People in the Third World
could be eating all that grain. And think of how much oil it takes to
grow a pound of meat! We could reduce our dependence on foreign oil if
only you would give up meat.

And don't forget to drink only fair trade, organic coffee from shade
tree plantations.

But the only ethical way to eat is be a fruitarian. Vegetarians often
consume an entire plant, ending its life completely. Just think of a
poor lettuce, or cabbage, or carrot. Once it's gone, it's gone. But
fruits that plants put out are meant to be eaten, and the seeds
excreted, as part of the plant's way of reproducing itself.

In article
>,
ImStillMags > wrote:

> On Aug 11, 11:34*am, Mark Thorson > wrote:
> > ImStillMags wrote:
> >
> > > I'm really tired of those who choose to eat no flesh, or only
> > > particular kinds of flesh looking down their noses at others and
> > > calling themselves "ethical eaters" as if those of us who choose to
> > > eat meat are unethical persons. * *(especially if those particular
> > > name callers are wearing leather of any sort)
> >
> > But that's why they are vegetarians. *They want
> > to have some basis for feeling superior to you.
>
> I don't believe that's true for every vegetarian....maybe for a few.
> I just think they get caught up in the 'rightousness" of it all...then
> they get defensive if you say 'it's your choice'.

My sister and my daughter were vegetarians for a long time. They ate
meat before and after. They didn't act superior, and had no interest in
"converting" anyone.

> Maybe they don't understand individual preferences and choice.

I have a slightly different take on it. There's nothing worse than a
reformed "X", whether "X" is a smoker, drinker or meat eater.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

In article
>,
spamtrap1888 > wrote:


> But think of all the water it takes to raise a pound of meant! People
> in the Third World are dying from a lack of pure water. And think how
> much grain it takes to grow a pound of meat!

In New Zealand that grain is zero for sheep and cattle. Most if not all
our sheep and cattle are free-range, grass-fed.

> People in the Third World
> could be eating all that grain.

If there was the political will for them to be doing so, which there
isn't.

> But the only ethical way to eat is be a fruitarian. Vegetarians often
> consume an entire plant, ending its life completely. Just think of a
> poor lettuce, or cabbage, or carrot. Once it's gone, it's gone. But
> fruits that plants put out are meant to be eaten, and the seeds
> excreted, as part of the plant's way of reproducing itself.

Not all fruit. And in the cases where that's so, the fruit fall
naturally and are eaten off the ground. Humans are cruel to the trees
by ripping their babies away from them prematurely. Fruitarians
ethical, pah. They're baby-eaters.

Miche

--
Electricians do it in three phases

On Aug 11, 2:14*pm, Janet Wilder > wrote:
> On 8/11/2010 2:00 PM, ImStillMags wrote:
>
>
>
> > I am and have always been a live and let live sort of person. * In
> > this lifetime I have gone through several stages of food preferences.
> > I was raised as a meat eater. *In my adult years *I've done
> > vegetarian, ovo-lacto vegetarian, vegan, etc. *At present I'm eating
> > like the omnivore I personally think we all are at our core. *I eat
> > all kinds of meats.
>
> > I have no problem with people who choose not to eat animal flesh or
> > products. * It is their persoal choice.
> > Far be it from me to tell someone else how to eat.
>
> > Which brings me to the point of this post.
>
> > I'm really tired of those who choose to eat no flesh, or only
> > particular kinds of flesh looking down their noses at others and
> > calling themselves "ethical eaters" as if those of us who choose to
> > eat meat are unethical persons. * *(especially if those particular
> > name callers are wearing leather of any sort)
>
> > * I consider myself a caring person. *I care how the meat I eat was
> > raised, how it was killed, what it was fed and how it was treated.
> > There may be a time in my life where I choose once again not to eat
> > meat. *But it is my choice to make and I will not make it because some
> > judgemental person is shaking their finger in my face and telling me
> > I'm a bad person.
>
> > Am I alone in feeling this way???
>
> Definitely not! *If there is one thing I can't stand, it's the
> "self-righteous" attitudes of some people.
>
> There are plenty of people who don't eat certain things out of ethics,
> religion or as a health choice that don't make a big deal out of it.
> It's the people who, as you say, "shake a finger" that annoy me. It's
> not just their eating, either.
>
> I am really annoyed by those who think I'm going to hell (which,k BTW is
> their version of hell, not mine) because I don't accept their belief as
> the "only true" one. Then there are the political jerks who think that
> everyone who doesn't subscribe to their own brand of political dogma are
> traitors and unpatriotic.
>
> It makes me wonder if any of them have a clue on the founding principals
> of America.

You mean, "Make a shilling, and deport all those heretics to
Connecticut"?

Or the part of the constitution that makes slaves equivalent to 2/3 of
a
free white man?

Intolerance and puritanism are part and parcel of who we have always
been.
Sure, we fight against it (within ourselves and as expressed by
others),
but it's always there.

Cindy Hamilton

On Aug 11, 10:22*pm, spamtrap1888 > wrote:
> On Aug 11, 11:00*am, ImStillMags > wrote:
> r
>
>
>
> > I'm really tired of those who choose to eat no flesh, or only
> > particular kinds of flesh looking down their noses at others and
> > calling themselves "ethical eaters" as if those of us who choose to
> > eat meat are unethical persons. * *(especially if those particular
> > name callers are wearing leather of any sort)
>
> > *I consider myself a caring person. *I care how the meat I eat was
> > raised, how it was killed, what it was fed and how it was treated.
> > There may be a time in my life where I choose once again not to eat
> > meat. *But it is my choice to make and I will not make it because some
> > judgemental person is shaking their finger in my face and telling me
> > I'm a bad person.
>
> > Am I alone in feeling this way???
>
> But think of all the water it takes to raise a pound of meant! People
> in the Third World are dying from a lack of pure water. And think how
> much grain it takes to grow a pound of meat! People in the Third World
> could be eating all that grain. And think of how much oil it takes to
> grow a pound of meat! We could reduce our dependence on foreign oil if
> only you would give up meat.
>
> And don't forget to drink only fair trade, organic coffee from shade
> tree plantations.
>
> But the only ethical way to eat is be a fruitarian. Vegetarians often
> consume an entire plant, ending its life completely. Just think of a
> poor lettuce, or cabbage, or carrot. Once it's gone, it's gone. But
> fruits that plants put out are meant to be eaten, and the seeds
> excreted, as part of the plant's way of reproducing itself.

Oh my God....you are correct!!!! We are killing the planet with out
consumption. We should all just kill ourselves right away!!! ;-)

On Aug 11, 11:32*pm, Miche > wrote:
> In article
> >,
>
> *spamtrap1888 > wrote:
> > But think of all the water it takes to raise a pound of meant! People
> > in the Third World are dying from a lack of pure water. And think how
> > much grain it takes to grow a pound of meat!
>
> In New Zealand that grain is zero for sheep and cattle. *Most if not all
> our sheep and cattle are free-range, grass-fed. *
>

This is a good counter-argument to the PETA position: that livestock
turn inedible grass into edible meat.

On Thu, 12 Aug 2010 06:53:55 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
> wrote:

>On Aug 11, 2:14*pm, Janet Wilder > wrote:
>> On 8/11/2010 2:00 PM, ImStillMags wrote:
>>
>>

>Or the part of the constitution that makes slaves equivalent to 2/3 of
>a
>free white man?

Cindy, may I suggest you do a little historical research on this
topic? You may find that it has little to do with with intolerance.
FE: Indians were pretty much out of the public arena if they kept to
their own ways. If, however, they elected to be taxed, they received
the various responsibilities and benefits of citizenship. Free blacks
were just that.... free. Indentured servitude was common, as a
business contract, not slavery. That is evident in Article 1, Section
2, which determines who should be counted to determine the
apportionment of state representatives. You will find that that every
"free person" shall be counted, including Indians who elect to be
taxed, and those "bound to service for a term of years" (i.e.,
Indentured), and 3/5 (NOT 2/3!) of all other persons (regardless of
legal status as property under the law.) It was argued that, since
slaves were property, they should not be counted at all....which would
have concentrated political power in the non-slave states, a situation
which was a deal-breaker in forming the union. The 3/5 thing was a
compromise that opened the way to forming the union, while deferring
the slavery question to a later time. No more.

That is the only application of the 3/5 rule. It does not mention race
or ethnic heritage, nor yet religion. BTW: You may want to see how
many colonies had official religions at the time the Declaration of
Independence was framed. It might surprise you.

Finally, the European model provided for three kinds of non-prohibited
religions.... established, accepted, and tolerated. In some countries,
even into modern times, there was an "established" church, usually tax
supported, certain "accepted" churches, which were allowed certain
priveleges similar to the established church, and "tolerated", which
meant they could exist but that was about it. FE: Catholicism might be
official, Lutheranism accepted (as a derivative of catholicism) and
Unitarianism and Judaism "tolerated" because they were inoffensive.
Calvinists and other evangelicals might be "prohibited".

HTH

Alex

spamtrap1888 wrote:
>
> And don't forget to drink only fair trade, organic coffee from shade
> tree plantations.
>
> But the only ethical way to eat is be a fruitarian. Vegetarians often
> consume an entire plant, ending its life completely. Just think of a
> poor lettuce, or cabbage, or carrot. Once it's gone, it's gone. But
> fruits that plants put out are meant to be eaten, and the seeds
> excreted, as part of the plant's way of reproducing itself.
>

It's only ethical if you shit outdoors. Otherwise it is dishonest to
the plant. ;-) (at least you can spit the seeds about)

Bob

On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 22:22:57 -0700 (PDT), spamtrap1888
> wrote:

>On Aug 11, 11:00*am, ImStillMags > wrote:
>r

>But think of all the water it takes to raise a pound of meant! People
>in the Third World are dying from a lack of pure water. And think how
>much grain it takes to grow a pound of meat! People in the Third World
>could be eating all that grain.

And how do you think it would get there? The same way it does now, on
ships and aircraft, which consume oil fuels. It is delivered by
trucks, which are fueled the same way. Eat your boiled turnips, dear.
Children are starving in China. (OK! They can have mine!)

>And think of how much oil it takes to
>grow a pound of meat! We could reduce our dependence on foreign oil if
>only you would give up meat.

We could reduce our dependence on foreign oil if you didn't heat your
house in winter, or drive a car, or use a bus, or fly somewhere, or
take a train, or buy bug sprays, etc. etc. etc. Do you have asphalt
composition shingles on your roof? If your electrical plant coal
fired? Or maybe we should start using more natural gas, which is
abundant and sprprisingly clean. I personally am not interested in
seeing the country reduced to the serfdom of subtistence farming.


>But the only ethical way to eat is be a fruitarian. Vegetarians often
>consume an entire plant, ending its life completely. Just think of a
>poor lettuce, or cabbage, or carrot. Once it's gone, it's gone.

Lettuce seeds? Parsley seeds? Cabbage seeds? It'll be a long time
before I start grieving for my carrots and radishes. And, have you
noticed, carrot and radish seeds always seem to be available....
Fancy that.

Alex

In article >,
ImStillMags > wrote:
>I am and have always been a live and let live sort of person. In
>this lifetime I have gone through several stages of food preferences.
>I was raised as a meat eater. In my adult years I've done
>vegetarian, ovo-lacto vegetarian, vegan, etc. At present I'm eating
>like the omnivore I personally think we all are at our core. I eat
>all kinds of meats.
>
>I have no problem with people who choose not to eat animal flesh or
>products. It is their persoal choice.
>Far be it from me to tell someone else how to eat.
>
>Which brings me to the point of this post.
>
>I'm really tired of those who choose to eat no flesh, or only
>particular kinds of flesh looking down their noses at others and
>calling themselves "ethical eaters" as if those of us who choose to
>eat meat are unethical persons. (especially if those particular
>name callers are wearing leather of any sort)
>
> I consider myself a caring person. I care how the meat I eat was
>raised, how it was killed, what it was fed and how it was treated.
>There may be a time in my life where I choose once again not to eat
>meat. But it is my choice to make and I will not make it because some
>judgemental person is shaking their finger in my face and telling me
>I'm a bad person.
>
>Am I alone in feeling this way???

I don't mind someone describing him or herself as an "ethical" eater. I
strive for that myself and have made a number of choices in that
direction.

What I don't like is the look-down-the-nose/judgement trip, "my way is the
One True Way".

I don't normally associate with people rude enough to do the latter.
It's just another form of one-upmanship. If I run across them, I will
cheerfully redecorate their boxes by describing my
SOLE-as-much-as-possible diet, including the meat CSA from an adjoining
county. (SOLE is "sustainable, organic, local, ethical" - for those of
you who are interested, follow "The Ethicurean" blog/FB. I know a couple
of the editors.)

I'm currently not eating the local meat because of poverty, but I plan to
go back to it when I have an income again. We have had farm tours/work
days where we meet the rancher and the animals.

I don't know if "orthorexia" is discussed in "The True Believers"
mentioned elsethread, but you should look it up. My general response to
that sort of thing is that I already have a religion, and it has fewer
ground rules. If someone is really rude about it, I might consider
busting out a few comparisions to fundamentalist/cultic religious excesses
(and I was "inside", I should know), but nobody (wisely) has pursued it
that far with me.

Charlotte


--

On Thu, 12 Aug 2010 07:22:41 -0700 (PDT), ImStillMags wrote:

> On Aug 11, 10:22*pm, spamtrap1888 > wrote:
>> On Aug 11, 11:00*am, ImStillMags > wrote:
>> r
>>
>>
>>
>>> I'm really tired of those who choose to eat no flesh, or only
>>> particular kinds of flesh looking down their noses at others and
>>> calling themselves "ethical eaters" as if those of us who choose to
>>> eat meat are unethical persons. * *(especially if those particular
>>> name callers are wearing leather of any sort)
>>
>>> *I consider myself a caring person. *I care how the meat I eat was
>>> raised, how it was killed, what it was fed and how it was treated.
>>> There may be a time in my life where I choose once again not to eat
>>> meat. *But it is my choice to make and I will not make it because some
>>> judgemental person is shaking their finger in my face and telling me
>>> I'm a bad person.
>>
>>> Am I alone in feeling this way???

do you really encounter that many vegetarians who shake their finger in
your face? on the other hand, do you berate people who smoke?

hmm. maybe:

well, you'd be out of luck here......sorry, no smoking in
restaurants.....mine went smoke free long before it became the trend
and then the law.....

I know smokers feel discriminated against but since smokers only make
up about 19% of the population around here
the majority rules.

<http://groups.google.com/group/rec.food.cooking/browse_thread/thread/b0d8376fda291102/95bc67c9b7e504ac?q=smoke+OR+smokers+OR+smoking+gro up:rec.food.cooking+author:ImStillMags#95bc67c9b7e 504ac>

>> But think of all the water it takes to raise a pound of meant! People
>> in the Third World are dying from a lack of pure water. And think how
>> much grain it takes to grow a pound of meat! People in the Third World
>> could be eating all that grain. And think of how much oil it takes to
>> grow a pound of meat! We could reduce our dependence on foreign oil if
>> only you would give up meat.
>>
>> And don't forget to drink only fair trade, organic coffee from shade
>> tree plantations.
>>
>> But the only ethical way to eat is be a fruitarian. Vegetarians often
>> consume an entire plant, ending its life completely. Just think of a
>> poor lettuce, or cabbage, or carrot. Once it's gone, it's gone. But
>> fruits that plants put out are meant to be eaten, and the seeds
>> excreted, as part of the plant's way of reproducing itself.
>
> Oh my God....you are correct!!!! We are killing the planet with out
> consumption. We should all just kill ourselves right away!!! ;-)

if you come on like that to vegetarians, i don't blame them for shaking a
finger at you.

blake

On Thu, 12 Aug 2010 09:17:14 -0700, Ranée at Arabian Knits
> wrote:

> Whenever I get nasty comments from people who think they have a right
> to tell me how many children I should have had (in front of our
> children), because there are too many people on the planet, I'm always
> tempted to tell them to go ahead and kill themselves for the cause to
> reduce it and be a part of the solution.

My opinion is you can have as many children as you can afford and a
good education (through college) is at the top of the list of things
to afford.

--

Forget the health food. I need all the preservatives I can get.

Mark Thorson wrote:
>
> But that's why they are vegetarians. They want
> to have some basis for feeling superior to you.

Most of the vegitarians I've met are quite matter of fact about it,
though there are some of both. It seems like the relative rate among
vegans runs the other way.

On Aug 12, 10:46*am, blake murphy > wrote:
> On Thu, 12 Aug 2010 07:22:41 -0700 (PDT), ImStillMags wrote:
> > On Aug 11, 10:22*pm, spamtrap1888 > wrote:
> >> On Aug 11, 11:00*am, ImStillMags > wrote:
> >> r
>
> >>> I'm really tired of those who choose to eat no flesh, or only
> >>> particular kinds of flesh looking down their noses at others and
> >>> calling themselves "ethical eaters" as if those of us who choose to
> >>> eat meat are unethical persons. * *(especially if those particular
> >>> name callers are wearing leather of any sort)
>
> >>> *I consider myself a caring person. *I care how the meat I eat was
> >>> raised, how it was killed, what it was fed and how it was treated.
> >>> There may be a time in my life where I choose once again not to eat
> >>> meat. *But it is my choice to make and I will not make it because some
> >>> judgemental person is shaking their finger in my face and telling me
> >>> I'm a bad person.
>
> >>> Am I alone in feeling this way???
>
> do you really encounter that many vegetarians who shake their finger in
> your face? *on the other hand, do you berate people who smoke?
>
> hmm. *maybe:
>
> well, you'd be out of luck here......sorry, no smoking in
> restaurants.....mine went smoke free long before it became the trend
> and then the law.....
>
> I know smokers feel discriminated against but *since smokers only make
> up about 19% of the population around here
> the majority rules.
>
> <http://groups.google.com/group/rec.food.cooking/browse_thread/thread/...>
>
>
>
>
>
> >> But think of all the water it takes to raise a pound of meant! People
> >> in the Third World are dying from a lack of pure water. And think how
> >> much grain it takes to grow a pound of meat! People in the Third World
> >> could be eating all that grain. And think of how much oil it takes to
> >> grow a pound of meat! We could reduce our dependence on foreign oil if
> >> only you would give up meat.
>
> >> And don't forget to drink only fair trade, organic coffee from shade
> >> tree plantations.
>
> >> But the only ethical way to eat is be a fruitarian. Vegetarians often
> >> consume an entire plant, ending its life completely. Just think of a
> >> poor lettuce, or cabbage, or carrot. Once it's gone, it's gone. But
> >> fruits that plants put out are meant to be eaten, and the seeds
> >> excreted, as part of the plant's way of reproducing itself.
>
> > Oh my God....you are correct!!!! * We are killing the planet with out
> > consumption. * We should all just kill ourselves right away!!! * *;-)
>
> if you come on like that to vegetarians, i don't blame them for shaking a
> finger at you.
>
> blake- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Actually, no I don't berate people for smoking. I'm an ex smoker
myself. My restaurant went smoke free before it became a law because
the vast majority of my patrons wanted it that way.

Ranee at Arabian Knits > wrote:

>That's been my experience as well. Vegetarians seem more live and
>let live, it is the vegans who are militant.

Actually it is the animal testing researchers and the fur
farmers who are militant.

Steve

"ImStillMags" > wrote in message
...
>I am and have always been a live and let live sort of person. In
> this lifetime I have gone through several stages of food preferences.
> I was raised as a meat eater. In my adult years I've done
> vegetarian, ovo-lacto vegetarian, vegan, etc. At present I'm eating
> like the omnivore I personally think we all are at our core. I eat
> all kinds of meats.
>
> I have no problem with people who choose not to eat animal flesh or
> products. It is their persoal choice.
> Far be it from me to tell someone else how to eat.
>
> Which brings me to the point of this post.
>
> I'm really tired of those who choose to eat no flesh, or only
> particular kinds of flesh looking down their noses at others and
> calling themselves "ethical eaters" as if those of us who choose to
> eat meat are unethical persons. (especially if those particular
> name callers are wearing leather of any sort)
>
> I consider myself a caring person. I care how the meat I eat was
> raised, how it was killed, what it was fed and how it was treated.
> There may be a time in my life where I choose once again not to eat
> meat. But it is my choice to make and I will not make it because some
> judgemental person is shaking their finger in my face and telling me
> I'm a bad person.
>
> Am I alone in feeling this way???

Anyone who thinks that way is denying and disrespecting their ancestry, who
ate all manner of things, and lived to procreate and produce this liberal
nutjob. If their ancestry had only eaten nuts and berries and "certain"
foods, that branch of the family tree would have ended long ago, and the
discussion would be moot because the other person would not be there.

Present this logic to them the next time they parade out this falderal:
Your ancestors were people who ate anything they could get their lips
around, and that's the only reason you're here. And now you're dissing
them?

Steve

visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com

Steve Pope defied reality:

>> That's been my experience as well. Vegetarians seem more live and
>> let live, it is the vegans who are militant.
>
> Actually it is the animal testing researchers and the fur
> farmers who are militant.

That's why you hear about animal testing researchers and fur farmers
shoving graphic pamphlets into the hands of first-graders, throwing buckets
of blood on vegans, and blowing up PETA's headquarters.

Don't be such a ****ing idiot.

Bob