http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/01/op...ref=editorials


what does that say about the state of our culture around food?

On Aug 5, 10:24*am, ImStillMags > wrote:
> http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/01/op...ref=editorials
>
> what does that say about the state of our culture around food?

Nothing last forever...

On Thu, 5 Aug 2010 10:24:06 -0700 (PDT), ImStillMags
> wrote:

>http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/01/op...ref=editorials
>
>
>what does that say about the state of our culture around food?

Not one damned thing. Go read some more.

http://www.joplinglobe.com/dailybusi...ily-lived-here
"But the growth of supermarket chains, the emergence of the local food
movement — New Hampshire has more than 80 farmers markets — and the
grueling routine took a toll."

OMG! They were put out of business by ...wait for it....FARMERS
MARKETS!

And the property is up for 3.35 mil, so don't cry yet. And it's
conserved land use, too.

Boron Elgar > wrote:

>On Thu, 5 Aug 2010 10:24:06 -0700 (PDT), ImStillMags

>>http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/01/op...ref=editorials

>>what does that say about the state of our culture around food?

>Not one damned thing. Go read some more.

>http://www.joplinglobe.com/dailybusi...ily-lived-here
>"But the growth of supermarket chains, the emergence of the local food
>movement — New Hampshire has more than 80 farmers markets — and the
>grueling routine took a toll."
>
>OMG! They were put out of business by ...wait for it....FARMERS
>MARKETS!

That's rich.

Tangentially, I believe Hopi farmers have been farming on Black Mesa
continuously since from long before 1632. Due to their matrilineal
religion the farms have stayed in the family.

Steve

On 8/5/2010 11:24, ImStillMags wrote:
> http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/01/op...ref=editorials
>
>
> what does that say about the state of our culture around food?

It doesn't say anything about the state of our culture around food. The
family that runs the farm has wanted out of it for years, and dissuaded
their own children from taking it over. Now the farm owners are older
and tired, and ready to get out of there.

Have you ever farmed? Do you know how much work it is, how much risk,
and how much expense is involved? When my uncle sold his dairy farm a
couple of decades ago, those were precisely his complaints. And my
ex-brother-in-law, whose siblings were quick to become co-owners of
their father's dairy farm, refused and worked on it as a mere employee
because he didn't want to lose his shirt struggling to keep it running.
A family farm is not really worth having any more and it's been like
that for many years.

On Aug 5, 11:01*am, Pennyaline > wrote:

>
> Have you ever farmed? Do you know how much work it is, how much risk,
> and how much expense is involved? When my uncle sold his dairy farm a
> couple of decades ago, those were precisely his complaints. And my
> ex-brother-in-law, whose siblings were quick to become co-owners of
> their father's dairy farm, refused and worked on it as a mere employee
> because he didn't want to lose his shirt struggling to keep it running.
> A family farm is not really worth having any more and it's been like
> that for many years.

I grew up in a rural are and we grew and canned most of our own food
and raised a beef cow and chickens etc.
We farmed for our own use rather than for profit. So, I know about
the work but not about the difficulty of the business end.

It seems to me that, especially in this area, there are more and more
small 'family' farms popping up. Most of them sell
their produce and products at the local food co-ops or grocery stores
and farmers markets. There is a lot of iterest here in
local, sustainable food and these small farmers seem to do pretty
well.

I just find it sad and troubling when I hear of family farms giving
up. Seems to me there could have been adjustments made
to accommodate the fluctuations in the markets and culture. But that
is just speculation on my part.

I found some interesting facts from the EPA.

http://www.epa.gov/agriculture/ag101/demographics.html

ImStillMags > wrote in message
...
[snip]
> I just find it sad and troubling when I hear of family farms giving
> up. Seems to me there could have been adjustments made
> to accommodate the fluctuations in the markets and culture. But that
> is just speculation on my part.

In my family's case, none of my grandparents offspring (nine children)
wanted anything to do with ranching, or farming, and to emphasize that point
often took to the military and/or moved out of state. Other families I know
that were raised on farms wanted nothing more than the money they got from
selling those parcels once Ma-and-Pa passed to the Great Beyond. Did it
affect food availability? No. Not even remotely.

The best thing about remembering the past is that you don't have to live it
again. It's never as good the second time around...

The Ranger

On Thu, 5 Aug 2010 10:24:06 -0700 (PDT), ImStillMags
> wrote:

> http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/01/op...ref=editorials
>

With any luck, it will become a living history museum. We have one
near us that's fun to visit. http://www.ebparks.org/parks/ardenwood

--

Forget the health food. I need all the preservatives I can get.

The Ranger wrote:
> ImStillMags > wrote

>> I just find it sad and troubling when I hear of family farms giving
>> up. Seems to me there could have been adjustments made
>> to accommodate the fluctuations in the markets and culture. But
>> that is just speculation on my part.
>
> In my family's case, none of my grandparents offspring (nine children)
> wanted anything to do with ranching, or farming, and to emphasize
> that point often took to the military and/or moved out of state.


I forget what the deed says, but there are restrictions on it.
It's not going to be a house farm. The writer makes it sound like
they are selling because they can't make a living, and it's not the
issue. I can't say much for that article.

nancy

The Ranger wrote:

> In my family's case, none of my grandparents offspring (nine children)
> wanted anything to do with ranching, or farming, and to emphasize that point
> often took to the military and/or moved out of state. Other families I know
> that were raised on farms wanted nothing more than the money they got from
> selling those parcels once Ma-and-Pa passed to the Great Beyond. Did it
> affect food availability? No. Not even remotely.
>
> The best thing about remembering the past is that you don't have to live it
> again. It's never as good the second time around...
>
> The Ranger

We see a lot of that around here. The north half of the Niagara
Peninsula has been a fruit belt for years. The fruit farms tended to be
small, since fruit is labour intensive and most families could only
handle a few acres. A lot of the farmers had day jobs in the local
factories. As the cities and towns expanded, the farmers were selling
off to developers. When I moved to my house 33 years ago there were
dozens of small farms along our road, mostly orchards. Bit by bit, lots
were severed and most of the farmers sold out to large building lots. At
one time their were orchards on both sides of my house and across the
street. Now I have houses sitting on 10-25 acres lots.

On Aug 5, 1:24*pm, ImStillMags > wrote:
> http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/01/op...ref=editorials

And now there's a new oldest continuous family farm in America.

Cindy Hamilton

"ImStillMags" > wrote in message
...
> http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/01/op...ref=editorials
>
>
> what does that say about the state of our culture around food?

Slap her on the back!

She's choking on her Prozac!

Again!

On Thu, 5 Aug 2010 11:17:12 -0700 (PDT), ImStillMags
> wrote:


>I just find it sad and troubling when I hear of family farms giving
>up. Seems to me there could have been adjustments made
>to accommodate the fluctuations in the markets and culture. But that
>is just speculation on my part.

Yeah, we call them farm subsidies and they have been around a long,
long time.

Now if these guys had owned a bank, they might have qualified for even
more money.

Boron

Jean B. wrote:

>>
>> Not the big supermarket chain near me. While 'Jersey' tomatoes are at
>> the height of their season and are big ripe and Juicy, my local
>> Genuardi's (Safeway owned) is only stocking Canadian hothouse tomatoes.
>>
>> Jon
>>
>>
> Don't you hate that? And restaurants that use really poor tomatoes when
> they are in season locally?
>

Yep. They get them from a supplier who has a supplier and all they have
to do is pick up the phone and call the usual number.

Nancy wrote:

> Anyway, my local store carries some local produce, and I even
> found it at Whole Foods. I got some local corn there yesterday,
> wow, it's the best I've had all season, so far. Excellent.

Our Tuesday farmers' market is held in the parking lot of a Whole Foods. One
local farm calls itself "The Natural Trading Company." They almost always
have sunflower sprouts and pea sprouts. One Tuesday morning I stopped by
their stall for pea shoots, and didn't see any. Asking if they had any on
the truck, I was told that they had sold out. So I went into Whole Foods,
and lo and behold, there were fifty clamshells of pea shoots for sale, all
proudly displaying "Natural Trading Company" on the label.

Bob

Dave Smith wrote:

> We have a lot of local fruit and vegetable stands. Once the local produce
> is in season I don't even think of buying fruit and vegetables at the
> grocery store. The fresh local stuff is so much better and it really
> annoys me to see the grocery stores importing stuff that they could be
> getting locally.

Our local Safeway has a pretty good selection of good-quality heirloom
tomatoes in season. The one thing that I *only* will buy locally is
strawberries. There is a farmer from Watsonville (about 150 miles away) who
has strawberries at the farmers' markets for a longer period of time than
our local roadside stands, but they're MUCH lower in quality than the local
ones. And the supermarket strawberries are even worse.

Bob

Bob Terwilliger wrote:
> Dave Smith wrote:
>
>> We have a lot of local fruit and vegetable stands. Once the local produce
>> is in season I don't even think of buying fruit and vegetables at the
>> grocery store. The fresh local stuff is so much better and it really
>> annoys me to see the grocery stores importing stuff that they could be
>> getting locally.
>
> Our local Safeway has a pretty good selection of good-quality heirloom
> tomatoes in season. The one thing that I *only* will buy locally is
> strawberries. There is a farmer from Watsonville (about 150 miles away) who
> has strawberries at the farmers' markets for a longer period of time than
> our local roadside stands, but they're MUCH lower in quality than the local
> ones. And the supermarket strawberries are even worse.
>
> Bob
>
>
That is sure true about strawberries. The nonlocal ones are soooo
bad. Unfortunately, the local ones were not at their best this
year though, I think because of all the spring rain we had. The
flavor was rather diluted. Still, they beat the ones that one
usually see.

--
Jean B.

On Thu, 05 Aug 2010 15:12:43 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>The Ranger wrote:
>
>> In my family's case, none of my grandparents offspring (nine children)
>> wanted anything to do with ranching, or farming, and to emphasize that point
>> often took to the military and/or moved out of state. Other families I know
>> that were raised on farms wanted nothing more than the money they got from
>> selling those parcels once Ma-and-Pa passed to the Great Beyond. Did it
>> affect food availability? No. Not even remotely.
>>
>> The best thing about remembering the past is that you don't have to live it
>> again. It's never as good the second time around...
>>
>> The Ranger
>
>We see a lot of that around here. The north half of the Niagara
>Peninsula has been a fruit belt for years. The fruit farms tended to be
>small, since fruit is labour intensive and most families could only
>handle a few acres. A lot of the farmers had day jobs in the local
>factories. As the cities and towns expanded, the farmers were selling
>off to developers. When I moved to my house 33 years ago there were
>dozens of small farms along our road, mostly orchards. Bit by bit, lots
>were severed and most of the farmers sold out to large building lots. At
>one time their were orchards on both sides of my house and across the
>street. Now I have houses sitting on 10-25 acres lots.

I daresay as a small farmer- it is almost impossible to buy a house
and farm and expect to pay the mortgage with your income. In our
early years we both worked other farms to earn the money for the
mortgage. And that is with my DH who has a BS in Tropical Ag- so he
was in demand.

I honestly do not think that someone can go into farming, now, getting
a mortgage, without big back-up capital in the bank. Of course you
wouldn't need a mortgage with enough back-up- but it is absolutely
crazy to think a farmer makes enough money to pay a mortgage by
growing any kind of produce.- Especially when agribusinesses who have
the gigantic- "economy of scale" on their side, use machines and
sprays and begin - often with GMO stuff that is already impregnated
with elements that make it unsusceptible to various bugs (corn worm)
or even to herbicides like RoundUp. It is not a level playing field,
I promise.

Sorry for the rant but it is all true.

aloha,
Cea

On Thu, 05 Aug 2010 20:25:56 -0400, Boron Elgar
> wrote:

>On Thu, 5 Aug 2010 11:17:12 -0700 (PDT), ImStillMags
> wrote:
>
>
>>I just find it sad and troubling when I hear of family farms giving
>>up. Seems to me there could have been adjustments made
>>to accommodate the fluctuations in the markets and culture. But that
>>is just speculation on my part.
>
>Yeah, we call them farm subsidies and they have been around a long,
>long time.
>
>Now if these guys had owned a bank, they might have qualified for even
>more money.
>
>Boron

And FYI, we personally get no Farm Subsidies . It is frustrating to
see where those Farm Subsidies go. Just review them for yourselves.
To see the National Database:
http://farm.ewg.org/region?fips=0000...bsidyS ummary

aloha,
Cea

Jean B. wrote:
>
>> Our local Safeway has a pretty good selection of good-quality heirloom
>> tomatoes in season. The one thing that I *only* will buy locally is
>> strawberries. There is a farmer from Watsonville (about 150 miles
>> away) who has strawberries at the farmers' markets for a longer period
>> of time than our local roadside stands, but they're MUCH lower in
>> quality than the local ones. And the supermarket strawberries are even
>> worse.
>>
>> Bob
>>
> That is sure true about strawberries. The nonlocal ones are soooo bad.
> Unfortunately, the local ones were not at their best this year though, I
> think because of all the spring rain we had. The flavor was rather
> diluted. Still, they beat the ones that one usually see.


That's why I don't buy strawberries out of season. They are a lot more
expensive and taste more like styrofoam than like strawberries. It is
only in the last year or so that I have been buying out of season
(imported) asparagus and while it is better than it used to be I only
had to have one batch of local asparagus to see how much better it is.

pure kona wrote:

>> We see a lot of that around here. The north half of the Niagara
>> Peninsula has been a fruit belt for years. The fruit farms tended to be
>> small, since fruit is labour intensive and most families could only
>> handle a few acres. A lot of the farmers had day jobs in the local
>> factories. As the cities and towns expanded, the farmers were selling
>> off to developers. When I moved to my house 33 years ago there were
>> dozens of small farms along our road, mostly orchards. Bit by bit, lots
>> were severed and most of the farmers sold out to large building lots. At
>> one time their were orchards on both sides of my house and across the
>> street. Now I have houses sitting on 10-25 acres lots.
>
> I daresay as a small farmer- it is almost impossible to buy a house
> and farm and expect to pay the mortgage with your income. In our
> early years we both worked other farms to earn the money for the
> mortgage. And that is with my DH who has a BS in Tropical Ag- so he
> was in demand.

That's all very true, especially at today's land prices. Farmland used
to be a lot cheaper, and people had larger families, and people put
their kids to work on the farm. It sure wasn't for everyone, but a lot
of hard working people realized that if they bought a farm, they could
grow their own fruit and vegetables and, hopefully, make some profit. It
may not have been enough to live on, but it was a way to buy property to
leave an estate for the family. Most of them bought close enough to
growing cities that they figured the land would be developed in the future.

FWIW, my wife's grandparents bought a farm back in 1940s or 50s as long
term speculation for their grandchildren. They property was cheap when
they bought it. They ended up severing an acre to sell along with the
house and then rented out the other 99 acres.




>
> I honestly do not think that someone can go into farming, now, getting
> a mortgage, without big back-up capital in the bank. Of course you
> wouldn't need a mortgage with enough back-up- but it is absolutely
> crazy to think a farmer makes enough money to pay a mortgage by
> growing any kind of produce.- Especially when agribusinesses who have
> the gigantic- "economy of scale" on their side, use machines and
> sprays and begin - often with GMO stuff that is already impregnated
> with elements that make it unsusceptible to various bugs (corn worm)
> or even to herbicides like RoundUp. It is not a level playing field,
> I promise.
>
> Sorry for the rant but it is all true.
>
> aloha,
> Cea

On Fri, 06 Aug 2010 15:12:22 -1000, pure kona >
wrote:

>On Thu, 05 Aug 2010 20:25:56 -0400, Boron Elgar
> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 5 Aug 2010 11:17:12 -0700 (PDT), ImStillMags
> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I just find it sad and troubling when I hear of family farms giving
>>>up. Seems to me there could have been adjustments made
>>>to accommodate the fluctuations in the markets and culture. But that
>>>is just speculation on my part.
>>
>>Yeah, we call them farm subsidies and they have been around a long,
>>long time.
>>
>>Now if these guys had owned a bank, they might have qualified for even
>>more money.
>>
>>Boron
>
>And FYI, we personally get no Farm Subsidies . It is frustrating to
>see where those Farm Subsidies go. Just review them for yourselves.
>To see the National Database:
>http://farm.ewg.org/region?fips=0000...bsidyS ummary
>
>aloha,
>Cea


Thanks for the link, Cea. I should not have made that blithe joke
above.

I am actually familiar with farm subsidies and have known for a long
time that it is the BigAgro firms that suck up most of the fed money.

The NY Times likes to do articles once in awhile about folks who have
decided to give up their big city careers and go into some sort of
specialized agribusiness. Often these people have made mucho dinero on
Wall Street or environs and turned their upscale 2nd homes into the
base of operations.

The selling of milk, meat, cheeses, or specialized plant goods usually
starts out as a weekend hobby, and any success stories one hears are
usually based on the land and home having been paid for by the
previous career. I cannot say they are all "gentleman farmers," but I
get the feeling that any wealth is already invested and being reaped
from that and not the fields.

Boron

On Fri, 06 Aug 2010 15:12:22 -1000, pure kona wrote:

> On Thu, 05 Aug 2010 20:25:56 -0400, Boron Elgar
> > wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 5 Aug 2010 11:17:12 -0700 (PDT), ImStillMags
> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I just find it sad and troubling when I hear of family farms giving
>>>up. Seems to me there could have been adjustments made
>>>to accommodate the fluctuations in the markets and culture. But that
>>>is just speculation on my part.
>>
>>Yeah, we call them farm subsidies and they have been around a long,
>>long time.
>>
>>Now if these guys had owned a bank, they might have qualified for even
>>more money.
>>
>>Boron
>
> And FYI, we personally get no Farm Subsidies . It is frustrating to
> see where those Farm Subsidies go. Just review them for yourselves.
> To see the National Database:
> http://farm.ewg.org/region?fips=0000...bsidyS ummary
>
> aloha,
> Cea

you need to bribe the right people enough so they will declare coffee a
strategic resource.

your pal,
blake

On Sat, 07 Aug 2010 08:17:04 -0400, Boron Elgar
> wrote:

>On Fri, 06 Aug 2010 15:12:22 -1000, pure kona >
>wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 05 Aug 2010 20:25:56 -0400, Boron Elgar
> wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 5 Aug 2010 11:17:12 -0700 (PDT), ImStillMags
> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>I just find it sad and troubling when I hear of family farms giving
>>>>up. Seems to me there could have been adjustments made
>>>>to accommodate the fluctuations in the markets and culture. But that
>>>>is just speculation on my part.
>>>
>>>Yeah, we call them farm subsidies and they have been around a long,
>>>long time.
>>>
>>>Now if these guys had owned a bank, they might have qualified for even
>>>more money.
>>>
>>>Boron
>>
>
>Thanks for the link, Cea. I should not have made that blithe joke
>above.
>
>I am actually familiar with farm subsidies and have known for a long
>time that it is the BigAgro firms that suck up most of the fed money.
>
>The NY Times likes to do articles once in awhile about folks who have
>decided to give up their big city careers and go into some sort of
>specialized agribusiness. Often these people have made mucho dinero on
>Wall Street or environs and turned their upscale 2nd homes into the
>base of operations.
>
>The selling of milk, meat, cheeses, or specialized plant goods usually
>starts out as a weekend hobby, and any success stories one hears are
>usually based on the land and home having been paid for by the
>previous career. I cannot say they are all "gentleman farmers," but I
>get the feeling that any wealth is already invested and being reaped
>from that and not the fields.
>
>Boron

No problem with blitheness and I agree with your conclusion. I do get
into a rant when some one thinks farmers are wealthy enough to shave a
few cents off. Not if they are small farmers. Why do Farmers farm
for the most part? It was answered by my husband: "Because that's
what we love to do and we couldn't imagine doing anything else!"

Today is our 22nd anniversary of buying this farm. And the main
Farmer here is doing what he does almost very daylight hour, stuff he
likes best- being outside. Checking out some plants, trimming others
and in general just enjoying the outside world- with dog Mollie, of
course.

Thanks Boron.

aloha,
Cea

Jean B. wrote:

>> That's why I don't buy strawberries out of season. They are a lot more
>> expensive and taste more like styrofoam than like strawberries. It is
>> only in the last year or so that I have been buying out of season
>> (imported) asparagus and while it is better than it used to be I only
>> had to have one batch of local asparagus to see how much better it is.
>
> I want to try going back to eating locally, in season. I think then,
> too, one would build up a real appreciation for produce when its time
> arrives.
>
> Of course, being in New England, unless one cans or otherwise preserves
> produce, it would probably be extremely hard to achieve this. You are
> even farther north.
>

I am more like west, possibly even a little south of you.

I do buy some fresh fruit and vegetable out of season. I avoid buying
imported produce when there is local stuff available. I can get fresh
picked strawberries and raspberries form any of several farms within a
mile of my house. There is no way I am buying imported berries when I
can get them fresh from my neighbours.

On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 22:57:24 -0700, Ranée at Arabian Knits
> wrote:

> we don't eat oranges in the summer,

I'm so glad you said that. I couldn't remember when oranges are in
season. Mom had orange trees in San Diego, but SD isn't my home and I
didn't visit enough to figure out a real season. It seemed like any
time I was there I could take oranges off the trees.

--

Forget the health food. I need all the preservatives I can get.

On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 22:55:04 -0700, Ranée at Arabian Knits
> wrote:

> Us, too. You can buy better produce from roadside stands and the
> farmer's market, for less money than the grocery store is selling their
> not quite ripe, imported stuff.

In my city, that's not the case. Prices at the farmer's market are
high retail and the product is average.

--

Forget the health food. I need all the preservatives I can get.

Thought I was reading a Teletubby post, there.

By me the roadside stands are pricey, but the Amish auction is dirt cheap, especially if you wait until the end. At the close, they just sell stuff for whatever they can. Chickens, 5#&10# boxes of peppers, and other produce, saplings. Best deal in my area. It's just starting to get good, now. New onions are rockin'.

In article >,
Ranée at Arabian Knits > wrote:
>In article >,
> sf > wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 22:55:04 -0700, Ranée at Arabian Knits
>> > wrote:
>>
>> > Us, too. You can buy better produce from roadside stands and the
>> > farmer's market, for less money than the grocery store is selling their
>> > not quite ripe, imported stuff.
>>
>> In my city, that's not the case. Prices at the farmer's market are
>> high retail and the product is average.

> It wasn't true where we used to live, either. The farmer's market
>was much more expensive, though some things could be gotten for a good
>deal, and it was all much better than what was in the stores. However,
>we still had good road side stands with great produce and prices.

Unfortunately where I live, the farm stands got developed years back.
There's the standard development/farming tension in a couple of the last
working ag areas in this county and the next closest one to me but there
seems to be some relief/support for the farmers these days.

We do have a couple of "produce specialist" retail markets where the
farmers sell direct and thus less markup happens.

The Berkeley farmer's market is one of the highest markup due to stall
fees (which support some other programs as well) so I have been known to
travel around when I need to hit the market up. (With the weekly farm
box, I do this less ... it is a deal compared to "retail" prices). As a
note, the truly dazzling produce does tend to make its way to the high-end
farmers' markets. Capitalism 101A .

When I go over the hills into Working Farmland, I stock up at the roadside
places. My favorite has expanded into an old Quonset hut and has an
awesome selection of fancy pantry items and an equally awesome selection
of bulk goods packaged from small to party size. They source a lot of the
grocery and bulk items locally as well. If I had freezer space, I
could order 50# or 100# of shelled local walnuts from them for a
substantial discount over "shelf price" and pick them up shortly after
harvest time.

For any of you driving I-80 around Sacramento, that's Pedrick Produce in
Dixon. Pedrick Road exit. Worth a detour.

Charlotte



--

In article >,
Ranée at Arabian Knits > wrote:
>In article >,
> (Charlotte L. Blackmer) wrote:
>
>> The Berkeley farmer's market is one of the highest markup due to stall
>> fees (which support some other programs as well) so I have been known to
>> travel around when I need to hit the market up. (With the weekly farm
>> box, I do this less ... it is a deal compared to "retail" prices). As a
>> note, the truly dazzling produce does tend to make its way to the high-end
>> farmers' markets. Capitalism 101A .
>
> The dairy from which we buy our milk was looking into selling at our
>local farmer's market, so they asked if I could find out how much the
>fees and such were. It was a $35 annual membership and $15 for the
>space per week/day (we have it twice a week, so vendors can come once or
>twice a week). Very reasonable, I thought. It might be part of why the
>costs are so low there. The other part is that we're just out of the
>suburban, chi-chi, cosmopolitan area of the state now.

I'm sure that last really does make a huge difference . But those fees
sound quite reasonable.

My understanding is that the BFM charges a percentage of the take. But again,
they are charging what they think the market will bear. I have been told
by farmers that the market here will bear more than markets more local to
them, so they are quite willing to deal with it.

Charlotte
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