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On Sat, 12 Jun 2010 15:31:28 -0400, "cshenk" > wrote:

> There are plenty of HOA's out in the county areas that just help get basic
> gardening to communal areas (not covered by any other, owned by no home
> owner). Some just require if you have excess cars, you park them mostly on
> your own grass so you don't impede others driving on the road or a firetruck
> getting past them. (One we lived in required #of cars not exceed # of
> drivers except by 1 and no more than 3 feet of the car could be in the
> street which I thought reasonable).


I'm inside city limits and mine doesn't dictate your house color
either. Neighbors seem to have good taste and hire color consultants
if they don't.

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On Sat, 12 Jun 2010 14:32:33 -0600, "gloria.p" >
wrote:

> With all respect to Bill, I would have tried to negotiate an exception
> with the HOA. I HATE arbitrary rulings.


Apparently their time is worth more than the cost of repainting. I
know, I know... but some people really do rationalize that way. I'm
married to one of them, so I see it in action up close and personal.

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In article >,
brooklyn1 > wrote:

> >I would never, NEVER purchase a house that was part of an HOA.
> >Neither would many people.
> >
> >IMHO that lowers property values.

>
> Absolutely... HOA resales are difficult to sell without taking a huge
> loss because they're very over priced bare bones units when new that
> require the original owners to put in a lot of upgrades at very
> inflated prices. HOAs are no different from glorified trailer
> park/trash living. There's really little difference between HOA and
> KOA rules except that at least with KOA you can pull up stakes and
> vamoose at any time. Some folks need to live with lots of imposed
> rules/regulations, they are incapable of thinking/doing for
> themselves, I found HOA living very much like the military...
> institutionalized, with everyone constantly inspecting/spying on each
> other, ratting each other out, and 24/7 rumor mongering about each
> other, and for the most ridiculous infractions; wouldn't be an hour
> after sun up before 600 families all know that the Greens didn't close
> their garage door last night (that's right, many HOAs don't permit
> garage doors to remain open at night, some don't permit any vehicles
> in the driveway over night, some don't allow homes to be built with
> the garage door facing the street, adds a lot of unnessesary cost to
> construction). HOAs also are occupied by more transients, they have a
> much higher rate of turnover and foreclosures than regular homes, HOAs
> are more like apartment living. HOAs are occupied by a bunch of
> impotent ******s who need a forced savings plan for forced
> maintenence... and with much of the monies skimmed, and used to
> contract someones BIL who happens to be in the landscaping business,
> someones FIL who just happens to own a road maintenence business,
> someones SIL who has a pool service, etc., all at inflated prices.
> When one joins an HOA they are giving the board of directors free rein
> to manage their money however they see fit and with little to no
> detailed accounting. No thank-Q, I'm a big boy now, I don't need
> mommy and daddy telling me how to live, I'll spend my money and live
> my life how I see fit. And we already have too much government, I
> don't want to live with an extra layer of politico.


Excellent summation Sheldon!
You put it far more eloquently than I could have. :-)
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"Ophelia" > wrote:

>
>
>"sf" > wrote in message
.. .
>> On Sat, 12 Jun 2010 17:50:52 +0100, "Ophelia" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I don't know what a Mench is,

>>
>> Google - define Mench

>
>Yes, sf I do know how to google. I didn't say I couldn't search for it, I
>said I didn't know what it meant.


Googling won't help much anyway, mensch has many meanings, depending
on context it means many things... and there is no accurate English
translation. Essentially a mensch is someone who is in charge of
themself, who knows how to be in charge of themself through awareness,
and who deserves to be entrusted with the charge of others... being a
mensch embodies the highest level of maturity. It's not possible to
belong to an HOA and be a mensch... in fact people who gravitate to
HOAs embody the exact opposite personality traits of a mensch;
pretentious, scheming, self centered, selfish, disengenuous,
pretentious. The antithesis of mensch is probably schmuck.

http://blog.guykawasaki.com/2006/02/...#axzz0qfqz3m00

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In article >,
sf > wrote:

> Not as far as I'm concerned, nor do others who belong to an HOA
> believe that baloney. A properly run HOA does not lower does property
> value (the housing bubble bust was not their fault); it helps maintain
> or increase property value because, neighborhood common areas (such as
> parks, meridians, pool and tennis courts) are maintained and
> individual homes retain their curb appeal.


"properly run" being the key words there. Unfortunately, that seems to
be the exception rather than the rule any more.

<http://realestate.msn.com/article.aspx?cp-documentid=13107752>

Or:

<http://tinyurl.com/23b3t7d>

I LIKE my wind chimes and my neighbors don't have a problem with it,
just like I have no problems with their every Saturday night band
practice since it's held in their livingroom and I cannot hear it from
indoors...

and it does not bother me when I'm out BBQ'ing as they keep the volume
down.
--
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Only Irish coffee provides in a single glass all four essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar and fat. --Alex Levine


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In article >,
sf > wrote:

> On Sat, 12 Jun 2010 17:50:52 +0100, "Ophelia" >
> wrote:
>
> > I don't know what a Mench is,

>
> Google - define Mench


It was a most excellent compliment. :-)
--
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Only Irish coffee provides in a single glass all four essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar and fat. --Alex Levine
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In article
>,
maxine in ri > wrote:

> I want to be able to park my car where I want, have friends over
> without registering their vehicles with the association, and plant
> what I want where I want on my property. I admit I wouldn't want to
> live next to the guy who painted his house in prison stripes to
> protest some regulation or other, but I like a neighborhood where each
> house reflects the uniqueness of the owners.
>
> maxine in ri


Living in an HOA is like living in a police state.
The ultimate in communism...

No freedom, no rights.
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
*Only Irish *coffee provides in a single glass all four *essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar *and fat. --Alex Levine
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Omelet > wrote:

>Living in an HOA is like living in a police state.
>The ultimate in communism...


>No freedom, no rights.


I agree except the word "communism" should be replaced
with "fascism".

Steve
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In article >,
Goomba > wrote:

> cshenk wrote:
>
> > Oh on your color choices? Consider a lovely old wood victorian in
> > wisteria with eggshell pale trim. Probably not allowed in some HOA's.
> >

> Actually, many Victorians were quite colorful! So it should depend on
> the historical aspect of the home. A little house like Om's would look
> stupid painted in 5 colors, yet a true Victorian could have that many
> colors and still be true.


You may note mine was not painted in 5 colors. <g>
At this moment, the exterior is pale olive green siding with forest
green trim and the new roof is in a rust and gray colored roofing. There
is a mixed color reddish block limestone wainscotting.

When I can afford it, I will finish rocking over the entire building...

Limestone facing is locally popular and good for a number of reasons.
--
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Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
*Only Irish *coffee provides in a single glass all four *essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar *and fat. --Alex Levine
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"Omelet" wrote
> sf > wrote:
>
>> Not as far as I'm concerned, nor do others who belong to an HOA
>> believe that baloney. A properly run HOA does not lower does property


> be the exception rather than the rule any more.
> <http://tinyurl.com/23b3t7d>


Yes. This is why HOA owned properties are having a hard time selling and
many seeking to purchase now specify 'show me only those with no HOA'. My
friend who is a relator, says it's about 1/2 in the area actually bother to
say that. The rest, tend to default by 1/2 when the see the HOA rules.

Logic shows HOA homes here do not get viewed as often and they are screaming
because their 4BR 3Bath luxury homes are selling for less than mine would.
HOA's arent bad, but too many have gone rampant and made horrible press.
With all the forclosures, buyers are scared to do something stupid and lose
their homes.

> I LIKE my wind chimes and my neighbors don't have a problem with it,
> just like I have no problems with their every Saturday night band
> practice since it's held in their livingroom and I cannot hear it from
> indoors...
>
> and it does not bother me when I'm out BBQ'ing as they keep the volume
> down.


None of those things should be HOA issues.



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"gloria.p" > wrote:
>> Dan Abel > wrote:
>>
>>> The guy didn't pay his HOA, so they sold his house out from under him.
>>> He sued, saying that they hadn't notified him. They replied, saying
>>> that they had mailed him and put a notice on his front door for three
>>> months. He said he didn't read his mail or use his front door. Of
>>> course, the new owners had kicked him out.

>>

>
>The laws regarding HOA powers vary from state to state. The most they
>can do in Colorado is put a lien on the property after a few months of
>non-payment. If there is a sale the lien is either paid by the old
>owner or attached to the new owner's deed. In a foreclosure the HOA
>claim comes in second or third place after the mortgage holder's.
>Usually the HOA is SOL for the back dues.
>
>Whoever said the other owners make up the deficit was right (whether
>those owners realize it or not.) This has come up in every annual HOA
>meeting we've had for the past five years or so.


That's true with non HOA as well... who do you think picks up the
property tax tab with any abandoned property? The thing is however
that when HOAs don't carry their full community obligations they can
lose their HOA status, those units still occupied get reassesed and
suffer a big tax hike to make up for all those empties that are not
paying taxes.

What a lot of folks don't realize is that these HOA communities come
into existance by towns and land developers making shadowy private
deals, the developer gets permission to squeeze in more units per acre
by promising to maintain their own roads, sewer treatment plants,
supply their own water district, trash pickup, lighting district, all
the infrastructures that would have precluded that number of units...
the town politicos go for it anticipating a larger tax base. In tough
economic times the HOAs are the first to get hit and the hardest
because it costs more to live there and HOAers typically go deeper
into debt to get in thinking what a great thing hyperbole... folks
leave but the units remain empty, first thing you know the looters
arrive, doesn't take long before more people get scared and get out
while the gettin' is good, next thing it's a slum of a ghost town.
Building an HMO island community surrounded by a greater community of
lesser value homes doesn't really mean the HMO is a better place to
live, if anything it's worse because it doesn't take long for the
tables to turn to where the HMO units are worth less. HMOs only look
attractive to the short sighted when brand new and still in the early
construction stages, all the slick brochures and glib sales speils
soon disappear, the shoddy construction begins to deteriorate and the
writing is on the wall... there isn't enough money to maintain the
infrastructure, the entire HMO goes deeper and deeper into debt until
soon the HMO becomes terminal... and there are no hospices for HMOs,
they are left to rot. The greater community will be damned if they
are going to bail out the pretentious HOAers who until the shit hit
the fan went about noses in the air proclaiming their "Through The
Gate" superiority over the peons who live in ordinary houses like
Om's.
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Terry Pulliam Burd wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Jun 2010 21:44:01 +0000 (UTC), Doug Freyburger
> > wrote:
>
>
>> I don't get the reaction against HOAs. The function of an HOA is to
>> keep the values up and the neighborhood nice. If I have good taste
>> then what I do is not a problem with the HOA. If I have bad taste then
>> chose to live in an HOA area to be able to tap someone else's good
>> taste. HOA meetings can get petty but they are easily ignored as long
>> as what you're doing is good stuff. If you want to leave junk in your
>> yard or paint ugly colors I don't want you in my neighborhood anyways.
>> Move to some place with no rules and so likely some place that looks bad.
>>

> Yahbut...we needed to repaint the house, which was plenny 'spensive,
> Loosey. We used the HOA chart of permissible colors and proceeded to
> repaint the house. Between the choosing of the paint, the painting of
> the house and the finish, the HOA took that particular color off the
> palate. We had to re-repaint the house or risk getting sued by the
> HOA. And the DH is a very good lawyer who figured it was less
> expensive to re-repaint the house than go to war with the HOA.
>
> And I have never seen an HOA board that didn't include the *most* anal
> retentive morons in the development. I'd use the term "Nazi," but the
> first one to toss that perjorative out...
>
> Terry "Squeaks" Pulliam Burd
>
>

If you have the list of colors documented, you should have told them to
go to hell. If they pushed you, a simple suit in small claims court for
the new paint job would have shut them down. I can't believe you really
gave in to that.
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On Sat, 12 Jun 2010 14:35:27 -0700, sf > wrote:

>On Sat, 12 Jun 2010 14:32:33 -0600, "gloria.p" >
>wrote:
>
>> With all respect to Bill, I would have tried to negotiate an exception
>> with the HOA. I HATE arbitrary rulings.

>
>Apparently their time is worth more than the cost of repainting. I
>know, I know... but some people really do rationalize that way. I'm
>married to one of them, so I see it in action up close and personal.


Eggsackly. Plus we'd seen this HOA in action. They had a couple of
retired lawyers (one of them was a patent attorney, which should tell
you something) on their board who liked nothing more than splitting
hairs and dragging a small disagreement into a major (small claims)
court battle. The whole thing would have been funny if it hadn't been
moderately expensive. By the time the house was repainted, you
couldn't tell it from the prior color.

Terry "Squeaks" Pulliam Burd

--

"If the soup had been as warm as the wine,
if the wine had been as old as the turkey,
and if the turkey had had a breast like the maid,
it would have been a swell dinner." Duncan Hines


To reply, remove "spambot" and replace it with "cox"
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On Sat, 12 Jun 2010 17:24:31 -0700, Terry Pulliam Burd
> wrote:

> By the time the house was repainted, you couldn't tell it from the prior color.


Glad to hear you're taking it in good humor! On the up side, another
coat of paint means it will be longer between paint jobs.


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In article >,
"cshenk" > wrote:

> "Omelet" wrote
> > sf > wrote:
> >
> >> Not as far as I'm concerned, nor do others who belong to an HOA
> >> believe that baloney. A properly run HOA does not lower does property

>
> > be the exception rather than the rule any more.
> > <http://tinyurl.com/23b3t7d>

>
> Yes. This is why HOA owned properties are having a hard time selling and
> many seeking to purchase now specify 'show me only those with no HOA'. My
> friend who is a relator, says it's about 1/2 in the area actually bother to
> say that. The rest, tend to default by 1/2 when the see the HOA rules.
>
> Logic shows HOA homes here do not get viewed as often and they are screaming
> because their 4BR 3Bath luxury homes are selling for less than mine would.
> HOA's arent bad, but too many have gone rampant and made horrible press.
> With all the forclosures, buyers are scared to do something stupid and lose
> their homes.
>
> > I LIKE my wind chimes and my neighbors don't have a problem with it,
> > just like I have no problems with their every Saturday night band
> > practice since it's held in their livingroom and I cannot hear it from
> > indoors...
> >
> > and it does not bother me when I'm out BBQ'ing as they keep the volume
> > down.

>
> None of those things should be HOA issues.


But they are... Did you read the link I posted?
Bringing it back on topic, there are even some HOA's that forbid BBQ'ing!

HOA's have gotten wayyyy out of control in too many places, and seek to
utterly control everyone and treat you like tenants, not property owners.
--
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Terry Pulliam Burd wrote:
> On Sat, 12 Jun 2010 14:35:27 -0700, > wrote:
>
>
>> On Sat, 12 Jun 2010 14:32:33 -0600, >
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> With all respect to Bill, I would have tried to negotiate an exception
>>> with the HOA. I HATE arbitrary rulings.
>>>

>> Apparently their time is worth more than the cost of repainting. I
>> know, I know... but some people really do rationalize that way. I'm
>> married to one of them, so I see it in action up close and personal.
>>

> Eggsackly. Plus we'd seen this HOA in action. They had a couple of
> retired lawyers (one of them was a patent attorney, which should tell
> you something) on their board who liked nothing more than splitting
> hairs and dragging a small disagreement into a major (small claims)
> court battle. The whole thing would have been funny if it hadn't been
> moderately expensive. By the time the house was repainted, you
> couldn't tell it from the prior color.
>
> Terry "Squeaks" Pulliam Burd
>
>

What's the deal with patent attorneys?
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Wayne Boatwright wrote:
> On Sat 12 Jun 2010 01:19:14p, gloria.p told us...
>
>
>> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri 11 Jun 2010 10:24:31p, Omelet told us...
>>>
>>>

>>
>>>> No blanking HOA has any right to tell me how many tulips I can
>>>> plant, or whether or not I can own a boat!
>>>>

>> I doubt the tulip restriction was ever in the covenants.
>> The HOA doesn;t acre if you own a boat, they only care if you
>> store it in your front yard.
>>
>>
>>
>>> Prospective buyers should read the CC&R very carefully before
>>> agreeing to its terms in insure that it doesn't contain anything
>>> they object to.
>>>
>>>

>>
>> To be fair, Wayne, it's not usually the CC&R the owners object to,
>> but the arbitrary "rules" the HOA invokes at monthly meetings at
>> the nagging of just a few owners.
>>
>> E.G. Our neighborhood has a pedestrian gate at one end that faces
>> the high school, very convenient for our kids. When we moved here
>> it was unlocked from 6AM-10PM. About 10 years ago the Board
>> voted, because of a few complaints of "trespassing" to lock the
>> gate 24/7 and provide keys to the owners--for a $50 deposit (and
>> $50 replacement every time a kid misplaces one.) The end result
>> is that kids prop the gate open for friends or break the lock. No
>> Board has ever dared to try to rescind that vote because a few
>> owners would be up in arms over the "lax security" complaints
>> that would be raised.
>>
>> gloria p
>>
>>

> I understand your situation and it wasn't fair. It may not even have
> been legal. When I lived in a development governed by an HOA. one
> could only raise issues or complaints about things specifically
> adressed in the CC&R. If a situation beyond that was raised, a
> majority vote of *all* homeonwers would be required, and the specific
> issue had to be legally amended to the CC&R.
>
> I was on that board for four years and encountered a personal dispute
> during that time. We purchased and had installed a very high quality
> solid copper weathevane. Prior to doing so we scoured the CC&R for
> any reference to the installation of such an item. There was none.
> Our neighbor two houses away practically had a stroke at our having
> done this and insisted that it be removed. She was also on the
> board. I pointed out that nothing like this was addresssed in the
> CC&R and she called to have a homeowners' vote to include it. Later
> the same evening I discovered that the CC&R did provide for the
> installation of TV antennas and/or shortwave radio antenna towers not
> to exceed 20 feet above the roof line. I called for a special
> meeting of the board a couple of days later and said that I would be
> happy to remove the weathevane at the same time that I installed a 20
> ft. TV tower in its place. The matter was dropped.
>
>

Nice!
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Wayne Boatwright wrote:

> I was on that board for four years and encountered a personal dispute
> during that time. We purchased and had installed a very high quality
> solid copper weathevane. Prior to doing so we scoured the CC&R for
> any reference to the installation of such an item. There was none.
> Our neighbor two houses away practically had a stroke at our having
> done this and insisted that it be removed. She was also on the
> board. I pointed out that nothing like this was addresssed in the
> CC&R and she called to have a homeowners' vote to include it. Later
> the same evening I discovered that the CC&R did provide for the
> installation of TV antennas and/or shortwave radio antenna towers not
> to exceed 20 feet above the roof line. I called for a special
> meeting of the board a couple of days later and said that I would be
> happy to remove the weathevane at the same time that I installed a 20
> ft. TV tower in its place. The matter was dropped.


*That* was smooth! Way to make a point and make her swallow her
complaint. Well played.

nancy
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On Fri, 11 Jun 2010 19:33:25 -0400, brooklyn1
> wrote:

>Lou Decruss wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 11 Jun 2010 13:00:38 -0700 (PDT), Nancy2
> wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>> >Not every neighborhood lays within a city.
>>>>
>>>> If you have a zip code you're within a county, city, town, village,
>>>> hamlet, whatever yoose call it... and so there will be zoning
>>>> ordinances.. some are pretty lax but some are more strict than fusspot
>>>
>>>There are very few county ordinances, if any. Business in a home?
>>>Fine. Outdoor burning? Fine. Campers on the property? Fine. Want
>>>a horse barn? Shed? Commercial truck garden? Cows? Fine. I can't
>>>think of a single zoning ordinance in our rural areas....although
>>>there certainly could be some....

>>
>>sheldon is full of shit again. The oldest daughter has a home an hour
>>from Chicago in an un-incorporated subdivision. It's too small for a
>>truck farm or horses but you don't need permits for remodeling or
>>additions. In Chicago you need a permit for window replacement or a
>>roof job but not there. There's no firewall between the garage and
>>the attic over the house. It's wide open. I don't think they know
>>what codes are there.

>
>You're full of shit. As I said, in some areas codes are lax but there
>are always minimal Federal code inspections for
>electrical/plumbing/fire.


Because it's on the books doesn't mean it's enforced.

>Codes are always a lot stricter in
>subdivisions...


Nonsense. Codes and enforcement vary by the city or town. It has
nothing to do with a subdivision unless there is a HOA.

>and home owner insurance always has a right to inspect
>the premises for whatever their policy contract deems compliance... if
>a mortgage so does the lender until a mortagage is fully satisfied,
>and one owns no part of the property till the loan is fully paid,
>they're only a caretaker.


What are you babbling about and why?

>Folks can redo a bath/kitchen by forgoing
>permits but just try extending the structure out or up... or adding a
>structure.


Rural people do it all the time. As Nancy mentioned.

>An HOA hasn't a whit to do with property taxes, those
>still need to be paid, school tax and town tax.


I said that somewhere.

>An HOA is essentially a private club that by buying there one
>agrees to abide by its bylaws...


That's an over simplification. You pay for whatever amenities the
community has to offer.

>but one still needs to abide by local codes...


Local codes in a big city are tougher and more enforced than rural
areas. A HOA in an urban area won't have to do as much as a rural
area because the city will do it.

>an HOA can make local codes stricter but cannot make them more lax.


That's true but why do you feel you need to babble about it?

> There's good reason you're losing your house, you're an idiot...


I'm not losing it. I'm selling it. I had some help from my brother or
I might have lost it.

>if that's
>even your house, I doubt it... with how little you know about real
>estate you come across more like a tenant.


You have no clue what I know or don't know about real estate. You
have no clue about a lot of things.

> Why do you think I suggested you rent it when no one else made
> that suggestion,


I wasn't looking for suggestions or I would have made a query. But it
wouldn't have been here. This drifted from a bridge score book from a
fast food joint.

>I strongly suspected you were a tenant, that's why you came up with all
>those fercocktah alibis why you can't rent it...


I didn't take your idea seriously because it's been discussed and
dismissed before. I don't take much of what you say seriously.

>the first thing a real homeowner would say is that they're afraid a
>tenant would destroytheir property, but not you, you came up with
>all the things a tenant thinks about...


I've been involved in property construction, management, maintenance,
commercial remodeling, etc. my whole adult life. I've cleaned up
messes that dumb****s like you tried to do on their own 100's of
times. Renting was discussed but was never a serious option. My
uncle had a tenant who didn't pay the gas bill in a house with hot
water heat. The pipes froze and cracked. Something was wrong with
the shut offs and the boiler kept pumping water and when they cracked
they opened up the flow. The house was bulldozed.

>it's obviously not yours to rent. Probably belongs to
>an acquaintance/relative and you were visiting, that's what those sort
>of pictures indicate.


LOL.. Those sort of pictures?

>That's probably not even you,


Yeah right. I found pictures of overweight middle-aged people and
claimed them to be me.

>for all these years you've been ascared to put your pic up on rfc mugs


No need for it and obviously I ain't scared of it.

>and now you want folks to believe that's you, and your wife


WTF are you talking about shemp. This is usenet and I could give a
shit if you or anyone believes that's me. And Louise is not my wife.

>doesn't make sense, and when something doesn't make sense it's not true.


You really are a nut-job.

Lou


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On Fri, 11 Jun 2010 22:47:56 -0400, brooklyn1
> wrote:

>Lou Decruss wrote:
>>"Nancy Young" wrote:
>>>Nancy2 wrote:
>>>>Omelet wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Can one refuse to join one when purchasing a home?
>>>
>>>> I've never heard of someone refusing to pay HOAs after buying a home.
>>>> It would be in the purchase agreement.
>>>
>>>The HOA doesn't just collect money to be a pain in the ass, they
>>>pay for things that are spelled out in the agreement. Be it snow
>>>removal, or a guard at the gate, or a pool, whatever. If people
>>>refuse to pay, the bill doesn't go away, the other neighbors have to
>>>pay more to make up the shortfall.
>>>
>>>Of course you have to pay if you buy into an HOA neighborhood.
>>>By buying there you are a member of the HOA.

>>
>>Good gawd OM is an idiot. To add to your list they keep a fund for
>>emergencies. A condo building would be really screwed if a major roof
>>leak developed and they had to knock on doors with a hat looking for
>>donations.

>
>That's not true.
>Condos are typically seperate units, sometimes
>attached as town/row houses but separate nevertheless... no biggie to
>repair one small roof. You obviously don't know the difference
>between condo and co-op.


A co-op is uncommon outside of your little world of New York. I don't
know much about them as I've never had a reason to learn. IIRC you
don't actually even own your own unit.

>
>Om is not an idiot, you are, and you are a LIAR...


OM is an idiot along with you. And yes I'm a liar. Now run along an
play hide and go **** yourself.

Lou
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On Fri, 11 Jun 2010 16:09:59 -0700, Dan Abel > wrote:

>In article
>,
> Nancy2 > wrote:
>
>> On Jun 5, 4:26*pm, Omelet > wrote:
>> > In article >,

>
>> > Can one refuse to join one when purchasing a home?

>
>Pretty much buying the place is joining. You can refuse to participate,
>but you are still legally bound.


Yep. And you can refuse to participate by living somewhere else. Why
is this so hard for a few dolts to understand?

>> I've never heard of someone refusing to pay HOAs after buying a home.
>> It would be in the purchase agreement.

>
>Oh yeah, happens all the time. There was a case north of me, at Sea
>Ranch. That's a pretty exclusive place:
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Ranch,_California
>
>Houses start around half a million dollars (US) for 2 bedrooms, 2 baths
>and 1000 square feet.
>
>The guy didn't pay his HOA, so they sold his house out from under him.
>He sued, saying that they hadn't notified him. They replied, saying
>that they had mailed him and put a notice on his front door for three
>months. He said he didn't read his mail or use his front door. Of
>course, the new owners had kicked him out.


Sounds like he was being a rebel and lost. This HOA will work with
you if you have a hardship and work out a payment plan. But I'm sure
if you told them you refused to pay you'd be in deep shit.

Lou

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On Sat, 12 Jun 2010 13:10:52 -0600, "gloria.p" >
wrote:

>
>> On Fri, 11 Jun 2010 16:09:59 -0700, Dan Abel > wrote:
>>
>>> The guy didn't pay his HOA, so they sold his house out from under him.
>>> He sued, saying that they hadn't notified him. They replied, saying
>>> that they had mailed him and put a notice on his front door for three
>>> months. He said he didn't read his mail or use his front door. Of
>>> course, the new owners had kicked him out.

>>

>
>The laws regarding HOA powers vary from state to state. The most they
>can do in Colorado is put a lien on the property after a few months of
>non-payment. If there is a sale the lien is either paid by the old
>owner or attached to the new owner's deed. In a foreclosure the HOA
>claim comes in second or third place after the mortgage holder's.
>Usually the HOA is SOL for the back dues.
>
>Whoever said the other owners make up the deficit was right (whether
>those owners realize it or not.) This has come up in every annual HOA
>meeting we've had for the past five years or so.


I don't know what the law here is but mine puts a lien on it. Sooner
or later they get the money. You pay it or it gets paid when you
sell.

Lou
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On Sat, 12 Jun 2010 17:50:52 +0100, "Ophelia" >
wrote:

>
>
>"brooklyn1" > wrote in message
.. .
>>
>> I may have my differences with Om otherwise but for a single woman
>> taking care of an aged parent, owning her own home, and holding down a
>> responsible job I think she is doing very well, I applaud her... Om is
>> a Mench... so what that her house is not the taj mahal, Om has never
>> been pretentious but she is doing much better than you.

>
>I don't know what a Mench is, but that is one good post!
>
>--


Unfortunately you missed a few things. Like this crap:

>That's not true. Condos are typically seperate units, sometimes
>attached as town/row houses but separate nevertheless... no biggie to
>repair one small roof. You obviously don't know the difference
>between condo and co-op.


That cheap vodka has rotted his brain.

Lou
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cshenk wrote:

>
> Oh on your color choices? Consider a lovely old wood victorian in
> wisteria with eggshell pale trim. Probably not allowed in some HOA's.
>



Sounds lovely and there are many of them in older areas of urban Denver,
Boulder, and the old mining town of Breckenridge, lots of Painted Ladies
in their well-planned color combinations.

Where would you find a lovely old Victorian in a HOA community?
All HOA locations that I an familiar with are developer built in the
past <50 years.

gloria p


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"gloria.p" wrote:

>brooklyn1 wrote:
>
>> I'll spend my money and live
>> my life how I see fit. And we already have too much government, I
>> don't want to live with an extra layer of politico.

>
>
>
>Then it sounds as though you have selected the perfect place to live, in
>the boonies with no one to bother you. Other people have other
>priorities. Your way isn't the right way for everyone.


Dont assume. I have plenty of neighbors. Every property on this road
is different, each has a residence, all very different but each to
local code. I definitely don't live in a slummy neighborhood and we
don't need any steenkin' HOA. Just because I don't post pictures of
my neighbor's homes doesn't mean I have no neighbors... in fact my
property shares boundries with 14 other properties of various sizes,
we all get along very well and if anyone needs help every one will
pitch in... in the seven years I've lived here I've never had a
dispute of any kind with anyone, we don't need any steenkin' rules!
Everytime I see people here making assumptions about me I laugh my ass
off, they couldn't be more wrong, yoose know nothing of my life.

Okay, this is my next door neighbor, those are my tractor impressions
in the frost... not too shabby a view I have, and that's a close up,
the distance between our houses is over 1,000 feet... notice their
clothes line, ahahahaha:
http://i48.tinypic.com/11jb2p2.jpg

My neighbor is more fastidious than me, here's his veggie garden:
http://i46.tinypic.com/15504t3.jpg

On the next adjoining property you see this from the road:
http://i48.tinypic.com/2czsh8j.jpg

Were I to post pictures of every property on this road, both sides,
you'd not see one slum.... not only are all the houses in great
condition this road is very picturesque. And I couldn't ask for a
better next door neighbor, anytime he sees me needing a hand he's
right there, we help each other all the time.


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In article >,
brooklyn1 > wrote:

> Okay, this is my next door neighbor, those are my tractor impressions
> in the frost... not too shabby a view I have, and that's a close up,
> the distance between our houses is over 1,000 feet... notice their
> clothes line, ahahahaha:
> http://i48.tinypic.com/11jb2p2.jpg
>
> My neighbor is more fastidious than me, here's his veggie garden:
> http://i46.tinypic.com/15504t3.jpg
>
> On the next adjoining property you see this from the road:
> http://i48.tinypic.com/2czsh8j.jpg
>
> Were I to post pictures of every property on this road, both sides,
> you'd not see one slum.... not only are all the houses in great
> condition this road is very picturesque. And I couldn't ask for a
> better next door neighbor, anytime he sees me needing a hand he's
> right there, we help each other all the time.


That pond pic is a keeper. Thanks. :-)
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
Only Irish coffee provides in a single glass all four essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar and fat. --Alex Levine
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gloria.p wrote:
> cshenk wrote:
>
>>
>> Oh on your color choices? Consider a lovely old wood victorian in
>> wisteria with eggshell pale trim. Probably not allowed in some
>> HOA's.
>>

>
>
> Sounds lovely and there are many of them in older areas of urban
> Denver, Boulder, and the old mining town of Breckenridge, lots of
> Painted Ladies in their well-planned color combinations.
>
> Where would you find a lovely old Victorian in a HOA community?
> All HOA locations that I an familiar with are developer built in the
> past <50 years.


I think they would be covered by a Historical Society rather than an
HOA. They don't collect funds from the homes in the protected
district but they sure have to follow the rules when it comes to
paint color/remodeling or anything that would change the tenor of
the neighborhood.

nancy
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brooklyn1 wrote:
> "gloria.p" wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Then it sounds as though you have selected the perfect place to live, in
>> the boonies with no one to bother you. Other people have other
>> priorities. Your way isn't the right way for everyone.


>
> Were I to post pictures of every property on this road, both sides,
> you'd not see one slum.... not only are all the houses in great
> condition this road is very picturesque. And I couldn't ask for a
> better next door neighbor, anytime he sees me needing a hand he's
> right there, we help each other all the time.
>
>



Where did I say you lived in a slum? You are in a rural area with large
acreage. Were we to require that kind of property, we'd have to have
moved halfway to Kansas. We like living where we do or we would not
have chosen it. Same as you.

gloria p
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Nancy Young wrote:
> gloria.p wrote:
>> cshenk wrote:


>>
>> Where would you find a lovely old Victorian in a HOA community?
>> All HOA locations that I an familiar with are developer built in the
>> past <50 years.

>
> I think they would be covered by a Historical Society rather than an
> HOA. They don't collect funds from the homes in the protected
> district but they sure have to follow the rules when it comes to paint
> color/remodeling or anything that would change the tenor of
> the neighborhood.
>
>


And just like having a HOA, potential owners would be aware of the
restrictions before they bought, and pretty obnoxious if they didn't
follow the rules.

Actually many of those Victorian houses are better looking and better
maintained than they were years ago before the historical societies
began regulating them. People who buy them are very interested in
restoring them to historic color combinations and gingerbread trim and
the results are gorgeous.

gloria p


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On Sat, 12 Jun 2010 19:17:49 -0400, Larry > wrote:

>Terry Pulliam Burd wrote:
>> On Fri, 11 Jun 2010 21:44:01 +0000 (UTC), Doug Freyburger
>> > wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I don't get the reaction against HOAs. The function of an HOA is to
>>> keep the values up and the neighborhood nice. If I have good taste
>>> then what I do is not a problem with the HOA. If I have bad taste then
>>> chose to live in an HOA area to be able to tap someone else's good
>>> taste. HOA meetings can get petty but they are easily ignored as long
>>> as what you're doing is good stuff. If you want to leave junk in your
>>> yard or paint ugly colors I don't want you in my neighborhood anyways.
>>> Move to some place with no rules and so likely some place that looks bad.
>>>

>> Yahbut...we needed to repaint the house, which was plenny 'spensive,
>> Loosey. We used the HOA chart of permissible colors and proceeded to
>> repaint the house. Between the choosing of the paint, the painting of
>> the house and the finish, the HOA took that particular color off the
>> palate. We had to re-repaint the house or risk getting sued by the
>> HOA. And the DH is a very good lawyer who figured it was less
>> expensive to re-repaint the house than go to war with the HOA.
>>
>> And I have never seen an HOA board that didn't include the *most* anal
>> retentive morons in the development. I'd use the term "Nazi," but the
>> first one to toss that perjorative out...
>>
>> Terry "Squeaks" Pulliam Burd
>>
>>

>If you have the list of colors documented, you should have told them to
>go to hell. If they pushed you, a simple suit in small claims court for
>the new paint job would have shut them down. I can't believe you really
>gave in to that.


You too... I don't believe any part of that paint fairy tale either.
An HOA with a paint palette would have signed off on the color
*before* painting commenced (and it ain't paint "palate", duh). You're
new here... I can assure that the lying pretentious **** has never
told the truth here yet... and if her husband was any kind of attorney
he'd never have had the house repainted... and the lying **** makes it
sound like they actually did the painting themselves.... no way would
that self proclaimed princess touch paint, nor would her husband who
couldn't sharpen his own pencils... aging attorneys don't schlep paint
and climb ladders, they'd have a hernia if they didn't have a coronary
first.
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gloria.p wrote:
> Nancy Young wrote:


>> I think they would be covered by a Historical Society rather than an
>> HOA. They don't collect funds from the homes in the protected
>> district but they sure have to follow the rules when it comes to
>> paint color/remodeling or anything that would change the tenor of
>> the neighborhood.


> And just like having a HOA, potential owners would be aware of the
> restrictions before they bought, and pretty obnoxious if they didn't
> follow the rules.


I just saw some show where a flipper bought in a historic district
with the idea of putting on an addition. Bad move.

As much as I appreciate having historic districts, I wouldn't buy there
because I think you'd better have plenty of $$$ to keep the places
up to snuff.

> Actually many of those Victorian houses are better looking and better
> maintained than they were years ago before the historical societies
> began regulating them. People who buy them are very interested in
> restoring them to historic color combinations and gingerbread trim and
> the results are gorgeous.


Stunning. The colors would look ridiculous on most houses. And white
with black shutters just doesn't do them justice. I watched this house in
Gorham, NH be painted little by little over the years. I think they finally
finished. I don't know if the picture does all the colors justice.

http://tinypic.com/r/4ueyib/6

nancy

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On Sat, 12 Jun 2010 22:53:45 -0400, "Nancy Young"
> wrote:

> I think they would be covered by a Historical Society rather than an
> HOA. They don't collect funds from the homes in the protected
> district but they sure have to follow the rules when it comes to
> paint color/remodeling or anything that would change the tenor of
> the neighborhood.
>

You're right, historic landmarks are in a league of their own.

--
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On Sat, 12 Jun 2010 23:33:38 -0400, "Nancy Young"
> wrote:

> http://tinypic.com/r/4ueyib/6


That is what we'd call a Painted Lady in San Francisco.

--
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On Sat, 12 Jun 2010 20:54:35 -0500, Lou Decruss
> wrote:

>On Fri, 11 Jun 2010 19:33:25 -0400, brooklyn1
> wrote:
>
>>Lou Decruss wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 11 Jun 2010 13:00:38 -0700 (PDT), Nancy2
> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> >Not every neighborhood lays within a city.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you have a zip code you're within a county, city, town, village,
>>>>> hamlet, whatever yoose call it... and so there will be zoning
>>>>> ordinances.. some are pretty lax but some are more strict than fusspot
>>>>
>>>>There are very few county ordinances, if any. Business in a home?
>>>>Fine. Outdoor burning? Fine. Campers on the property? Fine. Want
>>>>a horse barn? Shed? Commercial truck garden? Cows? Fine. I can't
>>>>think of a single zoning ordinance in our rural areas....although
>>>>there certainly could be some....
>>>
>>>sheldon is full of shit again. The oldest daughter has a home an hour
>>>from Chicago in an un-incorporated subdivision. It's too small for a
>>>truck farm or horses but you don't need permits for remodeling or
>>>additions. In Chicago you need a permit for window replacement or a
>>>roof job but not there. There's no firewall between the garage and
>>>the attic over the house. It's wide open. I don't think they know
>>>what codes are there.

>>
>>You're full of shit. As I said, in some areas codes are lax but there
>>are always minimal Federal code inspections for
>>electrical/plumbing/fire.

>
>Because it's on the books doesn't mean it's enforced.



So now you do admit there are codes, in your low life weasle way.

Murder and speeding is on the books too, doesn't mean it's not done.
duh

Codes certainly are enforced... just try to get an electrical drop
from the power company without a licenced electrician's sign off.
Same for plumbing, especially waste lines... heating too, fuel
companies won't drop unless the system meets code or they can lose
their licence fuel companies always inspect a new customer's tank
before dropping oil/gas (fuel companies are very closely monitored),
even those who burn solid fuel the fire marshal can condemn for
habitability until the system meets code... happens a lot now with the
high cost of fuel... even with inspections the number of wood and
pellet stove fires have exploded, because of too many non thinking
beligerants like you. People make illegal modifications that burn
their house down all the time, and when the insurance inspector
discovers the violation they don't pay.

The point is that there is nowhere in the US that doesn't have
building codes, and they most certainly are enforced... naturally
there will always be those the likes of you with a felon's mentality
who right away rationalizes enforcement as an alibi... people who do
illegal drugs have no compunction about breaking any laws... it's not
possible for a druggie to be cured, once addicted may as well be in
their DNA. And there is no such thing as a druggie who doesn't lie
about everything... lying/stealing is nothing, druggies will and do
commit murder for their fix. Up to me druggies would be
institutionalized for life, they are and will always be a menace to
society.


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>On Sat 12 Jun 2010 05:49:45p, Larry told us...
>
>>> I was on that board for four years and encountered a personal
>>> dispute during that time. We purchased and had installed a very
>>> high quality solid copper weathevane. Prior to doing so we
>>> scoured the CC&R for any reference to the installation of such an
>>> item. There was none. Our neighbor two houses away practically
>>> had a stroke at our having done this and insisted that it be
>>> removed. She was also on the board. I pointed out that nothing
>>> like this was addresssed in the CC&R and she called to have a
>>> homeowners' vote to include it. Later the same evening I
>>> discovered that the CC&R did provide for the installation of TV
>>> antennas and/or shortwave radio antenna towers not to exceed 20
>>> feet above the roof line. I called for a special meeting of the
>>> board a couple of days later and said that I would be happy to
>>> remove the weathevane at the same time that I installed a 20 ft.
>>> TV tower in its place. The matter was dropped.
>>>
>>>

>> Nice!



Would be nicer if Larry posted a picture of his house with that very
high quality copper weathervane... I've been contemplating erecting a
cupola with a weathervane atop for a while now, but everytime I peruse
all the styles I can't decide. And then I realize that from indoors I
wouldn't see it so what's the point if I can't see it point wind
direction. I even thought of placing one on my barn roof, that I can
see, but I don't know that it would look ethetically correct on my
type of barn. And then I already have one of those electronic remote
weather stations.
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Clueless AOL newbie Sheldon "Pussy" Katz wrote:

>>On Sat 12 Jun 2010 05:49:45p, Larry told us...
>>
>>>> I was on that board for four years and encountered a personal
>>>> dispute during that time. We purchased and had installed a very
>>>> high quality solid copper weathevane. Prior to doing so we
>>>> scoured the CC&R for any reference to the installation of such an
>>>> item. There was none. Our neighbor two houses away practically
>>>> had a stroke at our having done this and insisted that it be
>>>> removed. She was also on the board. I pointed out that nothing
>>>> like this was addresssed in the CC&R and she called to have a
>>>> homeowners' vote to include it. Later the same evening I
>>>> discovered that the CC&R did provide for the installation of TV
>>>> antennas and/or shortwave radio antenna towers not to exceed 20
>>>> feet above the roof line. I called for a special meeting of the
>>>> board a couple of days later and said that I would be happy to
>>>> remove the weathevane at the same time that I installed a 20 ft.
>>>> TV tower in its place. The matter was dropped.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Nice!

>
>
> Would be nicer if Larry posted a picture of his house with that very
> high quality copper weathervane.


Wayne's the one who posted about having the weathervane. You ****ed up the
attributions. It's a typical mistake for a newbie; just be more careful in
the future or you'll look like a complete idiot.

Bob



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"Omelet" wrote
> "cshenk" wrote:



>> > <http://tinyurl.com/23b3t7d>


>> Yes. This is why HOA owned properties are having a hard time selling and
>> many seeking to purchase now specify 'show me only those with no HOA'.
>> My
>> friend who is a relator, says it's about 1/2 in the area actually bother
>> to
>> say that. The rest, tend to default by 1/2 when the see the HOA rules.
>>
>> Logic shows HOA homes here do not get viewed as often and they are
>> screaming
>> because their 4BR 3Bath luxury homes are selling for less than mine
>> would.
>> HOA's arent bad, but too many have gone rampant and made horrible press.
>> With all the forclosures, buyers are scared to do something stupid and
>> lose
>> their homes.
>>
>> > I LIKE my wind chimes and my neighbors don't have a problem with it,
>> > just like I have no problems with their every Saturday night band
>> > practice since it's held in their livingroom and I cannot hear it from
>> > indoors...
>> >
>> > and it does not bother me when I'm out BBQ'ing as they keep the volume
>> > down.

>>
>> None of those things should be HOA issues.

>
> But they are... Did you read the link I posted?


Yes, and replied to your message and it.

> Bringing it back on topic, there are even some HOA's that forbid BBQ'ing!


> HOA's have gotten wayyyy out of control in too many places, and seek to
> utterly control everyone and treat you like tenants, not property owners.


Not all are that bad though. It is however true that their reputation is so
low now, even the sane ones are being avoided by buyers.

Grin, my boss just upscaled houses. He specifically said 'no more HOA's' to
the realtor. He got a lovely house in a very nice upscale neighborhood with
no HOA. He had a very hard time selling his house. 2 backed out last
second over HOA issues. There's something like 100 homes in his old HOA
area, with (per him) 20 in forclosure and another 5 vacant. 3 sold (his was
one of the 3).

He BTW, had a sane HOA although he wasn't happy that he had to use Verizon
FIOS and is much happier with Cox now (at significant savings for the
package that suits them vice the HOA required Verizon one). The rest of it
he said was fine.

Another friend mentioned his HOA had several optional services you could
elect to sign up for and based on how many were in it, the price would
change a bit. He added the option to have them cut his grass and use a
master keyed lock on the backyard fence so they could get in when he wasnt
home. Hehehehe, city has a height of grass allowed and HOA says must be
within or have grass services (in which case it's their fault if your grass
gets too high). The only catch-22 there is you have to pay all year as they
pro-rate the bill so you can't just 'pay in spring/summer'. Come
fall/winter, the same fellow 'for free' trims trees, prunes what's needed,
and helps get the leaves up and such. Seemed a good deal to him and to me!
20$ a week?

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"gloria.p" wrote
> cshenk wrote:


>> Oh on your color choices? Consider a lovely old wood victorian in
>> wisteria with eggshell pale trim. Probably not allowed in some HOA's.


> Sounds lovely and there are many of them in older areas of urban Denver,
> Boulder, and the old mining town of Breckenridge, lots of Painted Ladies
> in their well-planned color combinations.


> Where would you find a lovely old Victorian in a HOA community?
> All HOA locations that I an familiar with are developer built in the past
> <50 years.


Here, established neighborhoods converted to HOA status when it was 'all the
rage'. You can find a lovely 100 year old home in the middle of a newer
development when they sold off the land, so houses grew up near them. The
original owner may be grandfathered, or the house may be, but it's not a
guarentee (especially if the owner at the time of HOA establishment signed
up).

Yes, true 'historic district' ones have other requirements. Like the fellow
on 'Old Coach Road' who has a historic brick coach building at the side of
his front yard.

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cshenk wrote:
>
> city has a height of grass allowed and HOA says
> must be within or have grass services (in which case it's their fault if
> your grass gets too high). The only catch-22 there is you have to pay
> all year as they pro-rate the bill so you can't just 'pay in
> spring/summer'. Come fall/winter, the same fellow 'for free' trims
> trees, prunes what's needed, and helps get the leaves up and such.
> Seemed a good deal to him and to me! 20$ a week?



OMG, if we could get our grass mowed, trees pruned, leaves raked, and
our driveway plowed in winter for $20 a week, we'd think we'd died and
gone to heaven. Mowing is between $50-75/week depending on the crew and
how much trimming they do, even when it's neighborhood teens. Plowing is
around $30 each storm. We do both on our own but won't be able to keep
it up forever.


gloria p
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