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Old 22-05-2010, 05:50 PM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default Saturated fat for tamale dough

I had been assuming that if I make a tamale dough,
I'd have to use a saturated fat like lard or Crisco.
I've eaten a few of the Trader Joe's tamales, and
today I looked at the ingrediants to see what fat
they used.

I didn't see any fat listed. They do have
carragenan, and I suppose that may be what holds
the dough together.

What exactly is the role of lard in a tamale dough?
Does it help hold the dough together? Is it for
texture?

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Old 22-05-2010, 06:10 PM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default Saturated fat for tamale dough

Mark Thorson wrote:
I had been assuming that if I make a tamale dough,
I'd have to use a saturated fat like lard or Crisco.
I've eaten a few of the Trader Joe's tamales, and
today I looked at the ingrediants to see what fat
they used.

I didn't see any fat listed. They do have
carragenan, and I suppose that may be what holds
the dough together.

What exactly is the role of lard in a tamale dough?
Does it help hold the dough together? Is it for
texture?


It's for richness and texture, yes. It can be left out, but I don't like
the result. I'd use oil, if saturated fat is an issue.

(Masa, like polenta, firms up just fine on its own. It doesn't need help
from lard.)

Serene

--
"I tend to come down on the side of autonomy. Once people are grown up,
I believe they have the right to go to hell in the handbasket of their
choosing." -- Pat Kight, on alt.polyamory
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Old 22-05-2010, 06:22 PM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default Saturated fat for tamale dough

On Sat, 22 May 2010 09:50:14 -0700, Mark Thorson wrote:

I had been assuming that if I make a tamale dough, I'd have to use a
saturated fat like lard or Crisco. I've eaten a few of the Trader Joe's

snip

Mark,
IMHO there is a big difference between crisco and lard. supposedly crisco
which is hydrolyzed packs on 4 time the fat as an equal amount of lard.
If you can find non-hydrolyzed lard use that.



--
´╗┐regards, piedmont ~ the practical bbq'r!

http://sites.google.com/site/thepracticalbbqr/
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Old 22-05-2010, 06:32 PM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default Saturated fat for tamale dough

On 5/22/2010 12:10 PM, Serene Vannoy wrote:
Mark Thorson wrote:
I had been assuming that if I make a tamale dough,
I'd have to use a saturated fat like lard or Crisco.
I've eaten a few of the Trader Joe's tamales, and
today I looked at the ingrediants to see what fat
they used.

I didn't see any fat listed. They do have
carragenan, and I suppose that may be what holds
the dough together.

What exactly is the role of lard in a tamale dough?
Does it help hold the dough together? Is it for
texture?


It's for richness and texture, yes. It can be left out, but I don't like
the result. I'd use oil, if saturated fat is an issue.

(Masa, like polenta, firms up just fine on its own. It doesn't need help
from lard.)

Serene



A lot of the fat cooks out during steaming (the corn husk soaks it up)

If you leave the fat out of the masa, you might want to use an
extra-greasy filling, otherwise the tamales will probably taste dry.

I'm trying to figure out a tamale filling to use now that DD has gone a
little stricter towards vegetarianism. (she eats fish and shellfish,
but not much. Eggs, meat, and dairy are OK) She used to eat chicken,
and I made tamales with chicken filling and used goose fat in the masa.
I think she might eat wild game if it was available but I'm not sure.

Maybe black beans, onions, and portabello mushrooms? Or that nasty
black corn fungus you buy in expensive little cans at the Mexican store?
(a little of that probably goes a long way) Shark meat chili might be
interesting...

Bob
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Old 22-05-2010, 06:35 PM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default Saturated fat for tamale dough

piedmont wrote:

IMHO there is a big difference between crisco and lard. supposedly crisco
which is hydrolyzed packs on 4 time the fat as an equal amount of lard.
If you can find non-hydrolyzed lard use that.


You mean non-hydrogenated. Hydrolyzed lard
would be soap.

I think the formula of Crisco changed a few
years ago. I'll check again, but I think it's
now trans-fat free.


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Old 22-05-2010, 06:43 PM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default Saturated fat for tamale dough

zxcvbob wrote:

I'm trying to figure out a tamale filling to use now that DD has gone a
little stricter towards vegetarianism. (she eats fish and shellfish,
but not much. Eggs, meat, and dairy are OK) She used to eat chicken,
and I made tamales with chicken filling and used goose fat in the masa.
I think she might eat wild game if it was available but I'm not sure.

Maybe black beans, onions, and portabello mushrooms? Or that nasty
black corn fungus you buy in expensive little cans at the Mexican store?
(a little of that probably goes a long way) Shark meat chili might be
interesting...


I've been thinking about a vegetarian tamale
filling. Maybe that nacho cheese sauce that
comes in a #10 can, some vegetarian refried beans,
whole canned corn, whole black beans, and chopped
onions. I haven't tried any of this yet, I'm
just thinking about it.
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Old 22-05-2010, 06:44 PM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default Saturated fat for tamale dough

Mark Thorson wrote:
I had been assuming that if I make a tamale dough,
I'd have to use a saturated fat like lard or Crisco.
I've eaten a few of the Trader Joe's tamales, and
today I looked at the ingrediants to see what fat
they used.

I didn't see any fat listed. They do have
carragenan, and I suppose that may be what holds
the dough together.

What exactly is the role of lard in a tamale dough?
Does it help hold the dough together? Is it for
texture?


(piggybacking)

There is no such thing as a fat-free tamale. There must be a
labeling or reading mistake.

Fat makes the dough tasty and moist. I can't imagine a tamale
without it.

-sw
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Old 22-05-2010, 06:47 PM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default Saturated fat for tamale dough

On Sat, 22 May 2010 17:22:41 +0000 (UTC), piedmont wrote:

If you can find non-hydrolyzed lard use that.


Hydrolyzed lard?

You really are an idiot.

I haven't even seen partially hydrogenated lard (Armour is not, for
example), let alone hydrolyzed lard.

You dog was very tasty, BTW.

-sw
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Old 22-05-2010, 06:50 PM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default Saturated fat for tamale dough

On Sat, 22 May 2010 12:32:48 -0500, zxcvbob wrote:

A lot of the fat cooks out during steaming (the corn husk soaks it up)


I don't agree with that at all. If corn husks soaks up oil, why
aren't they using that in the Gulf instead of human and animal hair?
they asking for contributions of hair?

There's a fair amount of fat in tamale dough, and I've never any fat
at the bottom of the steaming vessel. The fat stays in the masa, in
my opinion.

-sw
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Old 22-05-2010, 07:33 PM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default Saturated fat for tamale dough

Sqwertz wrote:
On Sat, 22 May 2010 12:32:48 -0500, zxcvbob wrote:

A lot of the fat cooks out during steaming (the corn husk soaks it up)


I don't agree with that at all. If corn husks soaks up oil, why
aren't they using that in the Gulf instead of human and animal hair?
they asking for contributions of hair?

There's a fair amount of fat in tamale dough, and I've never any fat
at the bottom of the steaming vessel. The fat stays in the masa, in
my opinion.


Yep, I agree.

Serene

--
"I tend to come down on the side of autonomy. Once people are grown up,
I believe they have the right to go to hell in the handbasket of their
choosing." -- Pat Kight, on alt.polyamory


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Old 22-05-2010, 07:34 PM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default Saturated fat for tamale dough

On Sat, 22 May 2010 12:32:48 -0500, zxcvbob
wrote:

On 5/22/2010 12:10 PM, Serene Vannoy wrote:
Mark Thorson wrote:
I had been assuming that if I make a tamale dough,
I'd have to use a saturated fat like lard or Crisco.
I've eaten a few of the Trader Joe's tamales, and
today I looked at the ingrediants to see what fat
they used.

I didn't see any fat listed. They do have
carragenan, and I suppose that may be what holds
the dough together.

What exactly is the role of lard in a tamale dough?
Does it help hold the dough together? Is it for
texture?


It's for richness and texture, yes. It can be left out, but I don't like
the result. I'd use oil, if saturated fat is an issue.

(Masa, like polenta, firms up just fine on its own. It doesn't need help
from lard.)

Serene



A lot of the fat cooks out during steaming (the corn husk soaks it up)

If you leave the fat out of the masa, you might want to use an
extra-greasy filling, otherwise the tamales will probably taste dry.

I'm trying to figure out a tamale filling to use now that DD has gone a
little stricter towards vegetarianism. (she eats fish and shellfish,
but not much. Eggs, meat, and dairy are OK) She used to eat chicken,
and I made tamales with chicken filling and used goose fat in the masa.
I think she might eat wild game if it was available but I'm not sure.

Maybe black beans, onions, and portabello mushrooms? Or that nasty
black corn fungus you buy in expensive little cans at the Mexican store?
(a little of that probably goes a long way) Shark meat chili might be
interesting...

Bob


I also made some corn, green chili tamales still sorting through the
photos The masa was made up using canned cream-style corn, milk,
chicken broth and lard. I don't know how it would be without the lard
but if I were to experiment with it, I would replace the 1/2 cup of
lard the recipe calls for with more of the creamed corn.

koko
--

There is no love more sincere than the love of food
George Bernard Shaw

www.kokoscornerblog.com
updated 05/22/10
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Old 22-05-2010, 07:34 PM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default Saturated fat for tamale dough

piedmont wrote:
On Sat, 22 May 2010 09:50:14 -0700, Mark Thorson wrote:

I had been assuming that if I make a tamale dough, I'd have to use a
saturated fat like lard or Crisco. I've eaten a few of the Trader Joe's

snip

Mark,
IMHO there is a big difference between crisco and lard. supposedly crisco
which is hydrolyzed packs on 4 time the fat as an equal amount of lard.
If you can find non-hydrolyzed lard use that.


You may mean hydrogenated. At any rate, there's no way it's got four
times the fat. Four times the saturates, I'd buy, but saturated fat
doesn't actually have more fat in it than non-saturated. 100% fat is
100% fat.

Serene

--
"I tend to come down on the side of autonomy. Once people are grown up,
I believe they have the right to go to hell in the handbasket of their
choosing." -- Pat Kight, on alt.polyamory
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Old 22-05-2010, 07:57 PM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default Saturated fat for tamale dough

On 5/22/2010 1:34 PM, koko wrote:
On Sat, 22 May 2010 12:32:48 -0500,

snip
I'm trying to figure out a tamale filling to use now that DD has gone a
little stricter towards vegetarianism. (she eats fish and shellfish,
but not much. Eggs, meat, and dairy are OK) She used to eat chicken,
and I made tamales with chicken filling and used goose fat in the masa.
I think she might eat wild game if it was available but I'm not sure.

Maybe black beans, onions, and portabello mushrooms? Or that nasty
black corn fungus you buy in expensive little cans at the Mexican store?
(a little of that probably goes a long way) Shark meat chili might be
interesting...

Bob


I also made some corn, green chili tamalesstill sorting through the
photos The masa was made up using canned cream-style corn, milk,
chicken broth and lard. I don't know how it would be without the lard
but if I were to experiment with it, I would replace the 1/2 cup of
lard the recipe calls for with more of the creamed corn.

koko



I think coconut oil would be a better substitute. Maybe 1/3 cup of
coconut oil instead of 1/2 cup of lard.

Bob
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Old 22-05-2010, 08:08 PM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default Saturated fat for tamale dough

zxcvbob wrote:

I think coconut oil would be a better substitute. Maybe 1/3 cup of
coconut oil instead of 1/2 cup of lard.


This would be a very unhealthful substitution.
Coconut oil is the most saturated naturally
occurring food fat. Coconut oil raises
cholesterol more than beef fat!

Am J Clin Nutr. 1985 Aug;42(2):190-7.
Plasma lipid and lipoprotein response of humans
to beef fat, coconut oil and safflower oil.
Reiser R, Probstfield JL, Silvers A, Scott LW,
Shorney ML, Wood RD, O'Brien BC, Gotto AM Jr,
Insull W Jr.

This study's purpose was to evaluate the fasting
human plasma lipid and lipoprotein responses to
dietary beef fat (BF) by comparison with coconut
oil (CO) and safflower oil (SO), fats customarily
classified as saturated and polyunsaturated.
Nineteen free-living normolipidemic men aged
25.6 +/- 3.5 yr consumed centrally-prepared
lunches and dinners of common foods having 35%
fat calories, 60% of which was the test fat.
The test fats were isocalorically substituted,
and each fed for five weeks in random sequences
with intervening five weeks of habitual diets.
Plasma total cholesterol (TC), high-density
lipoprotein cholesterol (HDL-C), and low-density
lipoprotein cholesterol (LDL-C) concentrations
among individuals follows the same relative rank
regardless of diet. Triglycerides (TG)
concentrations among individuals also maintain
their relative rank regardless of diet but in
a different order from that of the cholesterols.
Plasma TC, HDL-C, and LDL-C responses to BF were
significantly lower and TG higher than to CO.
As compared to SO, BF produced equivalent levels
of TG, HDL-C, and LDL-C and marginally higher TC.
Thus, the customary consideration of BF as
"saturated" and grouping it with CO appears
unwarranted.
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Old 22-05-2010, 08:43 PM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default Saturated fat for tamale dough

On 2010-05-22, Mark Thorson wrote:
I had been assuming.....


You tend to do that, a lot.

that if I make a tamale dough,
I'd have to use a saturated fat like lard or Crisco.


Only if you choose to. Crisco, like the "lard" (manteca) on the
market shelf, is saturated because it's been hydrogenated. Bad mojo.
Use fresh rendered pork lard. Much more healthy.

http://www.pri.org/health/praise-the-lard1453.html

nb


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