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In article >, >
wrote: > In a nutshell, we probably would have seen our canned (and "jarred") > goods delivered in plastic bags long ago, if that were a practical > process for these items. > > Bob Hormel tried it some years ago. The civilian consumer's version of MRE, I think. :-) I see that they're not making them anymore (for civilians). -- -Barb, <www.jamlady.eboard.com> Updated 9-18-04; Sushi Story "Peace will come when the power of love overcomes the love of power." -Jimi Hendrix, and Lt. Joe Corcoran, Retired; St. Paul PD, Homicide Divn. |
In article >, >
wrote: > In a nutshell, we probably would have seen our canned (and "jarred") > goods delivered in plastic bags long ago, if that were a practical > process for these items. > > Bob Hormel tried it some years ago. The civilian consumer's version of MRE, I think. :-) I see that they're not making them anymore (for civilians). -- -Barb, <www.jamlady.eboard.com> Updated 9-18-04; Sushi Story "Peace will come when the power of love overcomes the love of power." -Jimi Hendrix, and Lt. Joe Corcoran, Retired; St. Paul PD, Homicide Divn. |
In article <V933d.65577$MQ5.59959@attbi_s52>, notbob
> wrote: > Anyway, you should have taught your daughter how to make that stuff > herself. She can't even make pico de gallo? Can she breath on her > own? > nb Now, now. No need to be so harsh, nb. Teaching a kid is one thing. The kid learning is another. -- -Barb, <www.jamlady.eboard.com> Updated 9-18-04; Sushi Story "Peace will come when the power of love overcomes the love of power." -Jimi Hendrix, and Lt. Joe Corcoran, Retired; St. Paul PD, Homicide Divn. |
In article <V933d.65577$MQ5.59959@attbi_s52>, notbob
> wrote: > Anyway, you should have taught your daughter how to make that stuff > herself. She can't even make pico de gallo? Can she breath on her > own? > nb Now, now. No need to be so harsh, nb. Teaching a kid is one thing. The kid learning is another. -- -Barb, <www.jamlady.eboard.com> Updated 9-18-04; Sushi Story "Peace will come when the power of love overcomes the love of power." -Jimi Hendrix, and Lt. Joe Corcoran, Retired; St. Paul PD, Homicide Divn. |
"Melba's Jammin'" > wrote in message ... > In article >, > > wrote: >> In a nutshell, we probably would have seen our canned (and "jarred") >> goods delivered in plastic bags long ago, if that were a practical >> process for these items. >> >> Bob > > Hormel tried it some years ago. The civilian consumer's version of MRE, > I think. :-) I see that they're not making them anymore (for > civilians). I've not tried it yet, but the bagged tuna fish is supposed to be better than canned. Ed |
"Melba's Jammin'" > wrote in message ... > In article >, > > wrote: >> In a nutshell, we probably would have seen our canned (and "jarred") >> goods delivered in plastic bags long ago, if that were a practical >> process for these items. >> >> Bob > > Hormel tried it some years ago. The civilian consumer's version of MRE, > I think. :-) I see that they're not making them anymore (for > civilians). I've not tried it yet, but the bagged tuna fish is supposed to be better than canned. Ed |
On 2004-09-19, Melba's Jammin' > wrote:
> Now, now. No need to be so harsh, nb. > Teaching a kid is one thing. The kid learning is another. What's to learn? tomato onion cilantro chile pepper .....CHOP! lime .....SQUEEZE If a person can't pull that off, how the heck are they going to cope with college. I didn't mean to come off harsh. I was dumbfounded more than anything. But, it appears BuZzy has a good sense of humor and took it as intended. I think the kid will do ok. Laundry is a good start. :) nb |
On 2004-09-19, Melba's Jammin' > wrote:
> Now, now. No need to be so harsh, nb. > Teaching a kid is one thing. The kid learning is another. What's to learn? tomato onion cilantro chile pepper .....CHOP! lime .....SQUEEZE If a person can't pull that off, how the heck are they going to cope with college. I didn't mean to come off harsh. I was dumbfounded more than anything. But, it appears BuZzy has a good sense of humor and took it as intended. I think the kid will do ok. Laundry is a good start. :) nb |
wrote:
> > Ever wonder how food sealed in metal cans is > > sterilized without exploding? They do it in large > > pressure cookers (called "retorts"). > > > And it's before they're sealed, by the way. You don't know what you're talking about. The cans are sealed first, then heat-sterilized in a retort. http://www.simplot.com.au/Hosting/co...+facts.canning Once cans are sealed they must be processed as soon as possible. The usual heat transfer fluids a saturated steam water steam - air mixture http://www.mcc.org/getinv/canning/recipe.html Scoop out as much juice as possible and save in the broth vat (to be canned later). Scoop meat into 28 oz cans; press meat tightly into the can. Seal the cans with a sealing unit. Cook for 2 hours in a retort steam cooker at 242 degrees. Cool cans in water bath for 30 minutes. Remove from water bath, wash grease from can and apply label with glue. http://www.austehc.unimelb.edu.au/tia/084.html At first the sanitary cans were processed in boiling water baths, i.e., at 100oC (212°F) or in brine baths at higher temperatures, as had been done since Stefan Goldner introduced them in 1841. At these higher temperatures, however, the lighter tinplate tended to explode but the steam pressure in a retort prevented this and it was not long before retorting became general. |
notbob, et al, I was happy to learn this AM that the daughter has been
to the local vegetable market in Greenwich Village. She says: "i went shopping yesterday bought...apples and a plant...celery, pepper, cucumbers, seaweed, wheat crackers, apples, oranges.." Hmmm...sounds like some sorta Yankee vegetarian diet-! I am suffering separation pains; used to enjoy fixing her a big Sunday omelette. Enjoy your younguns while you can. BuZzy notbob wrote: > On 2004-09-19, Melba's Jammin' > wrote: > > >>Now, now. No need to be so harsh, nb. >>Teaching a kid is one thing. The kid learning is another. > > > What's to learn? > > tomato > onion > cilantro > chile pepper > ....CHOP! > lime > ....SQUEEZE > > If a person can't pull that off, how the heck are they going to cope with > college. > > I didn't mean to come off harsh. I was dumbfounded more than anything. > But, it appears BuZzy has a good sense of humor and took it as intended. > I think the kid will do ok. Laundry is a good start. :) > > nb |
notbob, et al, I was happy to learn this AM that the daughter has been
to the local vegetable market in Greenwich Village. She says: "i went shopping yesterday bought...apples and a plant...celery, pepper, cucumbers, seaweed, wheat crackers, apples, oranges.." Hmmm...sounds like some sorta Yankee vegetarian diet-! I am suffering separation pains; used to enjoy fixing her a big Sunday omelette. Enjoy your younguns while you can. BuZzy notbob wrote: > On 2004-09-19, Melba's Jammin' > wrote: > > >>Now, now. No need to be so harsh, nb. >>Teaching a kid is one thing. The kid learning is another. > > > What's to learn? > > tomato > onion > cilantro > chile pepper > ....CHOP! > lime > ....SQUEEZE > > If a person can't pull that off, how the heck are they going to cope with > college. > > I didn't mean to come off harsh. I was dumbfounded more than anything. > But, it appears BuZzy has a good sense of humor and took it as intended. > I think the kid will do ok. Laundry is a good start. :) > > nb |
On 2004-09-19, BuZzY > wrote:
> baskets--they seem to be unrefrigerated--how is this possible-? It's not. The seal-a-meal is not some kind of miracle preservation device. All it really does is provide superior packaging. Foods that should be refrigerated still must be refrigerated. But, the elimination of air and moisture in the package greatly reduces spoilage and, in the case of frozen foods, freezer burn. A lot of the stuff you see in their adverts about sealing things in vac pacs is just so much bull. The special bags are pricey and the more of them you use, the more money they make. Vac packing a hand full of nuts to put in your kid's lunchbox is ridiculous and a waste of money. So is a vac-pac of corn meal. I don't want to vac pac corn meal, I want to eat it, the sooner the better. I only bought a seal-a-meal because I do home brewing and I needed a way to preserve whole hops in the freezer. It turned out it was also very useful for buying large lots of discounted meat and re-packaging to smaller portions for the freezer. Except for vac-pac'ing hard cheese (parmesan) for the fridge, I have no use for the thing other than frozen foods. I don't vac pac my pillows or hand tools or other silliness. nb |
On 2004-09-19, BuZzY > wrote:
> baskets--they seem to be unrefrigerated--how is this possible-? It's not. The seal-a-meal is not some kind of miracle preservation device. All it really does is provide superior packaging. Foods that should be refrigerated still must be refrigerated. But, the elimination of air and moisture in the package greatly reduces spoilage and, in the case of frozen foods, freezer burn. A lot of the stuff you see in their adverts about sealing things in vac pacs is just so much bull. The special bags are pricey and the more of them you use, the more money they make. Vac packing a hand full of nuts to put in your kid's lunchbox is ridiculous and a waste of money. So is a vac-pac of corn meal. I don't want to vac pac corn meal, I want to eat it, the sooner the better. I only bought a seal-a-meal because I do home brewing and I needed a way to preserve whole hops in the freezer. It turned out it was also very useful for buying large lots of discounted meat and re-packaging to smaller portions for the freezer. Except for vac-pac'ing hard cheese (parmesan) for the fridge, I have no use for the thing other than frozen foods. I don't vac pac my pillows or hand tools or other silliness. nb |
On 2004-09-19, BuZzY > wrote:
> baskets--they seem to be unrefrigerated--how is this possible-? It's not. The seal-a-meal is not some kind of miracle preservation device. All it really does is provide superior packaging. Foods that should be refrigerated still must be refrigerated. But, the elimination of air and moisture in the package greatly reduces spoilage and, in the case of frozen foods, freezer burn. A lot of the stuff you see in their adverts about sealing things in vac pacs is just so much bull. The special bags are pricey and the more of them you use, the more money they make. Vac packing a hand full of nuts to put in your kid's lunchbox is ridiculous and a waste of money. So is a vac-pac of corn meal. I don't want to vac pac corn meal, I want to eat it, the sooner the better. I only bought a seal-a-meal because I do home brewing and I needed a way to preserve whole hops in the freezer. It turned out it was also very useful for buying large lots of discounted meat and re-packaging to smaller portions for the freezer. Except for vac-pac'ing hard cheese (parmesan) for the fridge, I have no use for the thing other than frozen foods. I don't vac pac my pillows or hand tools or other silliness. nb |
"notbob" > wrote in message news:w1j3d.70367$MQ5.66326@attbi_s52... > What's to learn? > > tomato > onion > cilantro > chile pepper > ....CHOP! > lime > ....SQUEEZE > > If a person can't pull that off, how the heck are they going to cope with > college. Not every college dorm has the facilities to store the ingredients. A co-worker of mind had a son attending the CIA. She still sent him boxes of goodies. |
Mark Thorson wrote:
> You don't know what you're talking about. You forget to take your lithium (again)? Talk to your doctor please. There are much more effective ways to get your point across, but I see that you are being your normal (unmedicated) self again. ;-) |
Mark Thorson wrote:
> You don't know what you're talking about. You forget to take your lithium (again)? Talk to your doctor please. There are much more effective ways to get your point across, but I see that you are being your normal (unmedicated) self again. ;-) |
One time on Usenet, notbob > said:
> On 2004-09-18, BuZzY > wrote: > > Besides stuff like brownies and cookies, would it be possible to seal up > > sauces and other perishables-? (Daughter is homesick for Mom's homemade > > Texas picante sauce and pico de gallo). <snip> > Anyway, you should have taught your daughter how to make that stuff herself. > She can't even make pico de gallo? Can she breath on her own? Maybe she can, but it's not the same? I can make most of the things I loved about my mom's cooking (beef stew, sweet & sour chicken wings, milk gravy), but I still liked hers better... -- J.J. in WA ~ mom, vid gamer, novice cook ~ "I rule you!" - Travis of the Cosmos, ATHF (COLD to HOT for e-mail) |
One time on Usenet, notbob > said:
> On 2004-09-18, BuZzY > wrote: > > Besides stuff like brownies and cookies, would it be possible to seal up > > sauces and other perishables-? (Daughter is homesick for Mom's homemade > > Texas picante sauce and pico de gallo). <snip> > Anyway, you should have taught your daughter how to make that stuff herself. > She can't even make pico de gallo? Can she breath on her own? Maybe she can, but it's not the same? I can make most of the things I loved about my mom's cooking (beef stew, sweet & sour chicken wings, milk gravy), but I still liked hers better... -- J.J. in WA ~ mom, vid gamer, novice cook ~ "I rule you!" - Travis of the Cosmos, ATHF (COLD to HOT for e-mail) |
In article >, says...
> wrote: >=20 > > > Ever wonder how food sealed in metal cans is > > > sterilized without exploding? They do it in large > > > pressure cookers (called "retorts"). > > > > > And it's before they're sealed, by the way. >=20 > You don't know what you're talking about. > The cans are sealed first, then heat-sterilized > in a retort. >=20 > http://www.simplot.com.au/Hosting/co...d+facts.canni= ng >=20 > Once cans are sealed they must be processed as soon > as possible. The usual heat transfer fluids a > saturated steam > water > steam - air mixture >=20 > http://www.mcc.org/getinv/canning/recipe.html >=20 > Scoop out as much juice as possible and save in the > broth vat (to be canned later). Scoop meat into > 28 oz cans; press meat tightly into the can. Seal the > cans with a sealing unit. Cook for 2 hours in a retort > steam cooker at 242 degrees. Cool cans in water > bath for 30 minutes. Remove from water bath, wash > grease from can and apply label with glue. >=20 > http://www.austehc.unimelb.edu.au/tia/084.html >=20 > At first the sanitary cans were processed in boiling > water baths, i.e., at 100oC (212=B0F) or in brine baths > at higher temperatures, as had been done since > Stefan Goldner introduced them in 1841. At these > higher temperatures, however, the lighter tinplate > tended to explode but the steam pressure in a retort > prevented this and it was not long before retorting > became general. >=20 Thanks for the info, Mark. =20 When I was a kid, my mother used to literally "can" things, and I could=20 swear that she handled the metal cans and lids the same way she handled=20 the Mason jars and lids; that is, pressure cooking them in a big canning=20 cooker on top of the stove before sealing. =20 For the cans there was a big crank-operated device clamped to the=20 kitchen table that (I believe) crimped the can and lid together. The=20 glass jars just had lids set on them with a threaded metal ring lightly=20 screwed down to keep the lid in contact with the lip of the jar until=20 the vacuum formed, then the rings came off. As I recall, there were more than a few failures with the cans (bulging=20 and leaking for whatever reason), and in the latter years of her home=20 preserving career, she used glass jars only. If my memories about the=20 process are accurate, then perhaps the difference is home canning vs.=20 commercial canning in the retorts you described. Or maybe the memory is=20 acting up again... Anyway, interesting articles. =20 Bob |
In article >, says...
> wrote: >=20 > > > Ever wonder how food sealed in metal cans is > > > sterilized without exploding? They do it in large > > > pressure cookers (called "retorts"). > > > > > And it's before they're sealed, by the way. >=20 > You don't know what you're talking about. > The cans are sealed first, then heat-sterilized > in a retort. >=20 > http://www.simplot.com.au/Hosting/co...d+facts.canni= ng >=20 > Once cans are sealed they must be processed as soon > as possible. The usual heat transfer fluids a > saturated steam > water > steam - air mixture >=20 > http://www.mcc.org/getinv/canning/recipe.html >=20 > Scoop out as much juice as possible and save in the > broth vat (to be canned later). Scoop meat into > 28 oz cans; press meat tightly into the can. Seal the > cans with a sealing unit. Cook for 2 hours in a retort > steam cooker at 242 degrees. Cool cans in water > bath for 30 minutes. Remove from water bath, wash > grease from can and apply label with glue. >=20 > http://www.austehc.unimelb.edu.au/tia/084.html >=20 > At first the sanitary cans were processed in boiling > water baths, i.e., at 100oC (212=B0F) or in brine baths > at higher temperatures, as had been done since > Stefan Goldner introduced them in 1841. At these > higher temperatures, however, the lighter tinplate > tended to explode but the steam pressure in a retort > prevented this and it was not long before retorting > became general. >=20 Thanks for the info, Mark. =20 When I was a kid, my mother used to literally "can" things, and I could=20 swear that she handled the metal cans and lids the same way she handled=20 the Mason jars and lids; that is, pressure cooking them in a big canning=20 cooker on top of the stove before sealing. =20 For the cans there was a big crank-operated device clamped to the=20 kitchen table that (I believe) crimped the can and lid together. The=20 glass jars just had lids set on them with a threaded metal ring lightly=20 screwed down to keep the lid in contact with the lip of the jar until=20 the vacuum formed, then the rings came off. As I recall, there were more than a few failures with the cans (bulging=20 and leaking for whatever reason), and in the latter years of her home=20 preserving career, she used glass jars only. If my memories about the=20 process are accurate, then perhaps the difference is home canning vs.=20 commercial canning in the retorts you described. Or maybe the memory is=20 acting up again... Anyway, interesting articles. =20 Bob |
"Mark Thorson" wrote:
> Ever wonder how food sealed in metal cans is > sterilized without exploding? They do it in large > pressure cookers (called "retorts"). You asked about plastic bags. I responded about plastic bags. Now it's as if you really meant metal. Gosh, it's impossible to respond correctly to anything you ask, isn't it. Decide what you want to talk about, then let us know. We'll try to follow along silently. Meanwhile, on with the show! |
"Mark Thorson" wrote:
> Ever wonder how food sealed in metal cans is > sterilized without exploding? They do it in large > pressure cookers (called "retorts"). You asked about plastic bags. I responded about plastic bags. Now it's as if you really meant metal. Gosh, it's impossible to respond correctly to anything you ask, isn't it. Decide what you want to talk about, then let us know. We'll try to follow along silently. Meanwhile, on with the show! |
"Mark Thorson" wrote:
> Ever wonder how food sealed in metal cans is > sterilized without exploding? They do it in large > pressure cookers (called "retorts"). You asked about plastic bags. I responded about plastic bags. Now it's as if you really meant metal. Gosh, it's impossible to respond correctly to anything you ask, isn't it. Decide what you want to talk about, then let us know. We'll try to follow along silently. Meanwhile, on with the show! |
pennyaline wrote:
> You asked about plastic bags. I responded about plastic bags. > Now it's as if you really meant metal. Gosh, it's impossible to > respond correctly to anything you ask, isn't it. You brought up explosions, and I explained why explosions are a non-issue, mentioning the way cans are processed as an example of how this issue is dealt with. To prevent explosions, you sterilize with heat under pressure. Are you really so dense that you can't understand this simple concept? |
pennyaline wrote:
> You asked about plastic bags. I responded about plastic bags. > Now it's as if you really meant metal. Gosh, it's impossible to > respond correctly to anything you ask, isn't it. You brought up explosions, and I explained why explosions are a non-issue, mentioning the way cans are processed as an example of how this issue is dealt with. To prevent explosions, you sterilize with heat under pressure. Are you really so dense that you can't understand this simple concept? |
pennyaline wrote:
> You asked about plastic bags. I responded about plastic bags. > Now it's as if you really meant metal. Gosh, it's impossible to > respond correctly to anything you ask, isn't it. You brought up explosions, and I explained why explosions are a non-issue, mentioning the way cans are processed as an example of how this issue is dealt with. To prevent explosions, you sterilize with heat under pressure. Are you really so dense that you can't understand this simple concept? |
On 2004-09-19, Mark Thorson > wrote:
> You don't know what you're talking about. > The cans are sealed first, then heat-sterilized > in a retort. This is correct. > higher temperatures, however, the lighter tinplate > tended to explode but the steam pressure in a retort > prevented this and it was not long before retorting > became general. I used to operate a commercial manual retort when I worked in a cannery in Oregon back When I was still a pup. It was for short runs of special sized cans, in this case, no. 10 cans, as we didn't have automatic rotary cookers in that size. It was about 10-11 feet deep and about 8 feet in diameter. Cans were loaded in larged perforated steel baskets and the baskets stacked vertically, lifted by overhead electric hoist. When she was all sealed up with 3 baskets (several hundred cans), the top was sealed and live steam admitted. The temperature and pressure was raised to the required specs (I forget) and kept there for the required time. As soon as the cook cycle was completed the steam was shut off and cool water was pumped in to cool the cans. Since the cold water immediately condensed the steam and drastically dropped any remaining pressure, the now heated cans could explode before the cold water could cool the contents of the can. To prevent this, we had to manually admit cold water and high air pressure in a careful balance to maintain enough pressure in the retort to prevent the cans exploding or even bulging. When the internal temp dropped low enough, we vented the whole thing and drained the water and pulled the baskets. Oh yeah, they were pickled beets. That's were I learned to love 'em. nb |
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