A question for the food chemists;

My cholesterol level is getting to the
"we must do something about this" level.

My doctor went into a tirade about
polys and trans-fats, and hydrogenation.......
But either he didn't explain it well,
or it was just too much jargon to assimilate.

I've been doing some research, and,
tried reading food labels, but they seem to contradict.

Do I care about;
Total fat ? Partially saturated ? Unsaturated ?
Is there a web-site that sorts this out ?
Better yet.... which foods/ingredients to avoid.
Is there an easy "hook" that'll help me remember these ?

<rj>

<rj>

> My doctor went into a tirade about
> polys and trans-fats, and hydrogenation.......
> But either he didn't explain it well,
> or it was just too much jargon to assimilate.

Try Atkins. It does a good job at lowering tryglicerides and keeping
insulin levels in check for diabetics.

You can't just assume that if a food has a certain level of something on
the label it is good or not good. Specific types of fat and carbs jack
up your cholesterol, as do certain combinations. Unfortunately you can't
get all the information you need from the nutrition label. You need to
read and understand the ingredients, which more often than not, requires
a degree in chemistry.

--
John Gaughan
http://www.johngaughan.net/

"" wrote:
>
> A question for the food chemists;
>
> My cholesterol level is getting to the
> "we must do something about this" level.
>
> My doctor went into a tirade about
> polys and trans-fats, and hydrogenation.......
> But either he didn't explain it well,
> or it was just too much jargon to assimilate.
>
> I've been doing some research, and,
> tried reading food labels, but they seem to contradict.
>
> Do I care about;
> Total fat ? Partially saturated ? Unsaturated ?
> Is there a web-site that sorts this out ?
> Better yet.... which foods/ingredients to avoid.
> Is there an easy "hook" that'll help me remember these ?
>

First of all, fat/cholesterol intake has nothing, NOTHING to do with
your serum cholesterol levels... That has been proven time and again
with more recent research.

Here is anecdotal proof for you:

Al, one of my co-workers, had a triglyceride level of over 800 mg/dl.
His Cholesterol was over 300.

Mayonnaise for blood basically. A cardiac death sentence.

He read some of Atkins books and decided to try the Atkins diet.

14 days later, (yes folks, only 14 days!) we re-drew his blood and ran
it again.

Cholesterol had dropped to 170 and Triglycerides to 90 mg/dl.

Drastic, drastic drop in a short period of time.

Sugar and starch is the enemy if you have a problem with blood lipids...

Al eats butter, bacon, eggs, etc. Fat has jack to do with blood lipid
levels. Really. :-)

Try it for 2 weeks. I dare you.

K. (an Atkins convert....)

--
>^,,^< Cats-haven Hobby Farm >^,,^< >^,,^<

"There are millions of intelligent species in the universe, and they are
all owned by cats" -- Asimov

Custom handcrafts, Sterling silver beaded jewelry
http://cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAP...s&userid=katra

I couldn't agree more. I was trying to pen a response; John did it
better than I.
Also, there is a stastical relationship, but no definite individual
relationship between your chemistries and your coronary vessels. A close
friend with a cholesterol of 180, has his post angioplasty prosthesis
supporting one of his coronaries post M.I. as we sit here penning prose.
Basically you need to get provider advise from someone you trust, who
you feel understands the chemistries, and who based on your BP, weight,
and family history, and lack of a murmur, will advise you. It sounds
like you were shortchanged from the one you were describing in your
post.
Good Luck
Kent

John Gaughan wrote:
>
> > My doctor went into a tirade about
> > polys and trans-fats, and hydrogenation.......
> > But either he didn't explain it well,
> > or it was just too much jargon to assimilate.
>
> Try Atkins. It does a good job at lowering tryglicerides and keeping
> insulin levels in check for diabetics.
>
> You can't just assume that if a food has a certain level of something on
> the label it is good or not good. Specific types of fat and carbs jack
> up your cholesterol, as do certain combinations. Unfortunately you can't
> get all the information you need from the nutrition label. You need to
> read and understand the ingredients, which more often than not, requires
> a degree in chemistry.
>
> --
> John Gaughan
> http://www.johngaughan.net/
>

Katra > writes:

>First of all, fat/cholesterol intake has nothing, NOTHING to do with
>your serum cholesterol levels... That has been proven time and again
>with more recent research.

Well, most of the time, anyway. I wouldn't go so far as to say "nothing"
because there may be those few people out there who are affected.

You are correct that recent research determines that high cholesterol levels
are almost always a matter of heredity or chemical imbalance.

Cholesterol is not a deadly substance. It is the vital substance
from which your brain is made; from which your hormones
are made; and from which your cell membranes are made.
Cholesterol is so important that your own liver produces
2000 milligrams of it daily just to make sure you have
enough. If you fall for the popular anti-fat propaganda
and eat a low cholesterol diet, your own liver will make
all the more in a desperate attempt to produce enough.
Understand that when cholesterol does build up to
abnormally high levels in your blood it has nothing to do
with how much cholesterol you ate. It has to do with an
imbalance in your body chemistry that prevents you from
handling cholesterol properly.

This is why so many people, despite totally restrictive diets, still cannot
lower their serum cholesterol levels. And this is also why drugs such as
Lipitor are immediately effective and successful when diet fails - which is
almost always.

Connie
************************************************** ***
My mind is like a steel...um, whatchamacallit.

Wolfie herein lies the problem in asking a difficult question on a NG
such as this. Katra is unquestionably right on. A number of
investigators have independly come up with exactly that. The question is
do you still need to worry about cholesterol intake. Following is a post
I wrote on ba.food in a similar thread. What follows is an excerpt from
the following article.

The American Journal of Cardiology
Volume 88 • Number 7B • October 11, 2001
Copyright © 2001 The American College of Cardiology

United states cholesterol guidelines 2001: expanded scope of intensive
low-density lipoprotein–lowering therapy

Scott M. Grundy, MD, PhD
Center for Human Nutrition and the Departments of Internal Medicine and
Clinical Nutrition
University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center at Dallas
Dallas, Texas, USA

"First-line therapy for patients entering cholesterol management is
modification of life habits. These modifications include cessation of
cigarette smoking, LDL-C–lowering dietary changes, weight management,
and increased physical activity. LDL-C–lowering dietary changes consist
of the following: (1) reduction in intake of saturated fatty acids to
<7% of total calories, (2) reduction of intake of dietary cholesterol to
<200 mg/day, (3) addition of plant stanol/sterols at a level of 2 g/day,
and (4) incorporating viscous fiber into the diet at a level of 10 to 25
g/day. Presently, plant stanol/sterols are commercially available in
special margarines, but may be available in the future in other forms."

One egg yolk has approximately 213 mg. cholesterol.
Bottom Line: Regardless of the suggested nonrelationship that could
exist between dietary cholesterol and the serum cholesterol level, it's
still not recommended that you eat egg yolks. If you are going to, make
sure your provider agrees with what you are doing.

Kent


Katra wrote:
>
> "" wrote:
> >
> > A question for the food chemists;
> >
> > My cholesterol level is getting to the
> > "we must do something about this" level.
> >
> > My doctor went into a tirade about
> > polys and trans-fats, and hydrogenation.......
> > But either he didn't explain it well,
> > or it was just too much jargon to assimilate.
> >
> > I've been doing some research, and,
> > tried reading food labels, but they seem to contradict.
> >
> > Do I care about;
> > Total fat ? Partially saturated ? Unsaturated ?
> > Is there a web-site that sorts this out ?
> > Better yet.... which foods/ingredients to avoid.
> > Is there an easy "hook" that'll help me remember these ?
> >
>
> First of all, fat/cholesterol intake has nothing, NOTHING to do with
> your serum cholesterol levels... That has been proven time and again
> with more recent research.
>
> Here is anecdotal proof for you:
>
> Al, one of my co-workers, had a triglyceride level of over 800 mg/dl.
> His Cholesterol was over 300.
>
> Mayonnaise for blood basically. A cardiac death sentence.
>
> He read some of Atkins books and decided to try the Atkins diet.
>
> 14 days later, (yes folks, only 14 days!) we re-drew his blood and ran
> it again.
>
> Cholesterol had dropped to 170 and Triglycerides to 90 mg/dl.
>
> Drastic, drastic drop in a short period of time.
>
> Sugar and starch is the enemy if you have a problem with blood lipids...
>
> Al eats butter, bacon, eggs, etc. Fat has jack to do with blood lipid
> levels. Really. :-)
>
> Try it for 2 weeks. I dare you.
>
> K. (an Atkins convert....)
>
> --
> >^,,^< Cats-haven Hobby Farm >^,,^< >^,,^<
>
> "There are millions of intelligent species in the universe, and they are
> all owned by cats" -- Asimov
>
> Custom handcrafts, Sterling silver beaded jewelry
> http://cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAP...s&userid=katra

ConnieG999 wrote:
> Katra > writes:
>
>
>>First of all, fat/cholesterol intake has nothing, NOTHING to do with
>>your serum cholesterol levels... That has been proven time and again
>>with more recent research.
>
>
> Well, most of the time, anyway. I wouldn't go so far as to say "nothing"
> because there may be those few people out there who are affected.
>
> You are correct that recent research determines that high cholesterol levels
> are almost always a matter of heredity or chemical imbalance.
>
> Cholesterol is not a deadly substance. It is the vital substance
> from which your brain is made; from which your hormones
> are made; and from which your cell membranes are made.
> Cholesterol is so important that your own liver produces
> 2000 milligrams of it daily just to make sure you have
> enough. If you fall for the popular anti-fat propaganda
> and eat a low cholesterol diet, your own liver will make
> all the more in a desperate attempt to produce enough.
> Understand that when cholesterol does build up to
> abnormally high levels in your blood it has nothing to do
> with how much cholesterol you ate. It has to do with an
> imbalance in your body chemistry that prevents you from
> handling cholesterol properly.
>
> This is why so many people, despite totally restrictive diets, still cannot
> lower their serum cholesterol levels. And this is also why drugs such as
> Lipitor are immediately effective and successful when diet fails - which is
> almost always.
>
> Connie
> ************************************************** ***
> My mind is like a steel...um, whatchamacallit.
>

Still, authorities like the Heart, Lung, Blood institute, recommend life
style modifications (diet, exercise, et cetera,) as first line treatment
protocol. There is a small but significant % of patients that will
respond to it. Depending on other risk factors for Coronary Artery
Disease, a physician may decide to use Statins from the start.

Richard

--
"..A census taker once tried to test me. I ate his liver with some fava
beans and a nice chianti..."

Hannibal "The Cannibal"

Silence Of The Lambs 1991

On 12/8/2003 10:40 AM Ted shuffled out of his cave and grunted these
great (and sometimes not so great) words of knowledge:

One thing you can do which will help is to take 1,000 - 1,200 mg of
garlic once or twice a day. This will lower your cholesterol about 10 -
15 points. Garlic will not hurt you in any way and has many benefits in
addition to lowering cholesterol.

Just my $0.02 worth.


> A question for the food chemists;
>
> My cholesterol level is getting to the
> "we must do something about this" level.
>
> My doctor went into a tirade about
> polys and trans-fats, and hydrogenation.......
> But either he didn't explain it well,
> or it was just too much jargon to assimilate.
>
> I've been doing some research, and,
> tried reading food labels, but they seem to contradict.
>
> Do I care about;
> Total fat ? Partially saturated ? Unsaturated ?
> Is there a web-site that sorts this out ?
> Better yet.... which foods/ingredients to avoid.
> Is there an easy "hook" that'll help me remember these ?
>
> <rj>
>
> <rj>

"" wrote:

> A question for the food chemists;
>
> My cholesterol level is getting to the
> "we must do something about this" level.
>
> My doctor went into a tirade about
> polys and trans-fats, and hydrogenation.......
> But either he didn't explain it well,
> or it was just too much jargon to assimilate.
>
> I've been doing some research, and,
> tried reading food labels, but they seem to contradict.
>
> Do I care about;
> Total fat ? Partially saturated ? Unsaturated ?
> Is there a web-site that sorts this out ?
> Better yet.... which foods/ingredients to avoid.
> Is there an easy "hook" that'll help me remember these ?

It's all too confusing for me. I prefer to go by the
Mediterranean diet. "They" say that French and Italians
have a lot of garlic and drink red wine and that something
in that diet helps to reduce cholesterol. That is simple
enough ot understand and works for me.

My wife is of Dutch extraction and has what we jokingly
refer to as the Dutch diet, high in fats and protiens,.
Actually, it is similar to the Aitkens diet. She is allergic
to yeast, so she does not eat bread. She is also allergic to
potatoes and does not eat them. Having been celiac as a
child, she doesn't eat much flour in any form. However,
breakfast and lunches consist of a lot things like bacon,
cold cuts, eggs and cheese. She fries things in gobs of
melted butter. She eats a lot of vegetables, usually
dripping in butter. She maintains a good body weight at has
no cholesterol problems. Some people seem to be able to get
away with eating stuff like that.


Her father was the same way. Breakfast was poached eggs with
cheese on top and lots of salt. He ate a lot of meat, cold
cuts and cheese. He went to restaurants for lunch, so you
know there was lots of f f at and salt in that stuff. Supper
was crackers with peanut butter and a double Martini. He was
quite fit and active until he passed away in his sleep when
he was almost 95.

Other people have an order of chicken wings and a few beers
and their cholesteror count goes off the chart. Go figger.

ConnieG999 wrote:

> And this is also why drugs such as
> Lipitor are immediately effective and successful when diet fails - which is
> almost always.


By taking Lipitor you end up trading one problem for another... Lipitor
will lower your cholesterol at the expense of your liver... Statins not
only destroy your liver but deplete your body of Co-Enzyme Q10... If a
doctor prescribes Statins to someone who does not have an immediate
health concern then it's time to find a new doctor... Anything that can
be controlled with diet and exercise should be... Way too many doctors
are outdated and/or lazy...

~john!


--
What was it like to see - the face of your own stability - suddenly look
away...

Z GIRL wrote:

> Katra that sounds like a Lab error to me. In my background with 10 years in
> the medical field I have never ever heard of a drop that drastic in that
> short period of time with out it being related to another health issue such
> as Liver etc, or it being a lab error.


Nope... She's correct... Refined flour and starchy carbs is *solely*
responsible for this nations obesity and heart disease epidemic...
Grains are for peasants... or rabbits... it's trash food... Go two weeks
eating only Meat and non-starchy vegetables... you will feel strange for
about 3 days but after that you will feel better than you *ever* have in
your life... Dr. Atkins (though not the first advocate) will go down in
the history books for his "Diet Revolution"... and a revolution it is...
for the US anyway...

~john!


--
What was it like to see - the face of your own stability - suddenly look
away...

Levelwave© wrote:
> ConnieG999 wrote:
>
>> And this is also why drugs such as
>> Lipitor are immediately effective and successful when diet fails -
>> which is
>> almost always.
>
>
>
> By taking Lipitor you end up trading one problem for another... Lipitor
> will lower your cholesterol at the expense of your liver... Statins not
> only destroy your liver but deplete your body of Co-Enzyme Q10... If a
> doctor prescribes Statins to someone who does not have an immediate
> health concern then it's time to find a new doctor... Anything that can
> be controlled with diet and exercise should be... Way too many doctors
> are outdated and/or lazy...
>
> ~john!
>
>

Although I agree that many physicians jump to a statin, without at least
trying life style modifications, Statins are not hepatotoxic to
everyone; especially the not so old, those that are not an other
hepatotoxic medications, those that don't abuse alcohol, et cetera.
Liver function tests (or liver injury tests is what they really should
be called,) are monitored. In the bulk of patients, there is no liver
damage. Matter of fact, the only case of severe liver damage that I know
of, was an alcoholic (he didn't tell his physician he abused ETOH,) was
on INH (an anti TB drug, which also affects the gland) and Lipitor for
about 6 months.

Richard

--
"..A census taker once tried to test me. I ate his liver with some fava
beans and a nice chianti..."

Hannibal "The Cannibal"

Silence Of The Lambs 1991

"Katra" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> "" wrote:
> >
> > A question for the food chemists;
> >
> > My cholesterol level is getting to the
> > "we must do something about this" level.
> >
> > My doctor went into a tirade about
> > polys and trans-fats, and hydrogenation.......
> > But either he didn't explain it well,
> > or it was just too much jargon to assimilate.
> >
> > I've been doing some research, and,
> > tried reading food labels, but they seem to contradict.
> >
> > Do I care about;
> > Total fat ? Partially saturated ? Unsaturated ?
> > Is there a web-site that sorts this out ?
> > Better yet.... which foods/ingredients to avoid.
> > Is there an easy "hook" that'll help me remember these ?
> >
>
> First of all, fat/cholesterol intake has nothing, NOTHING to do with
> your serum cholesterol levels... That has been proven time and again
> with more recent research.
>
> Here is anecdotal proof for you:
>
> Al, one of my co-workers, had a triglyceride level of over 800 mg/dl.
> His Cholesterol was over 300.
>
> Mayonnaise for blood basically. A cardiac death sentence.
>
> He read some of Atkins books and decided to try the Atkins diet.
>
> 14 days later, (yes folks, only 14 days!) we re-drew his blood and ran
> it again.
>
> Cholesterol had dropped to 170 and Triglycerides to 90 mg/dl.
>
> Drastic, drastic drop in a short period of time.
>
> Sugar and starch is the enemy if you have a problem with blood lipids...
>
> Al eats butter, bacon, eggs, etc. Fat has jack to do with blood lipid
> levels. Really. :-)
>
> Try it for 2 weeks. I dare you.
>
> K. (an Atkins convert....)
>
> --

Katra that sounds like a Lab error to me. In my background with 10 years in
the medical field I have never ever heard of a drop that drastic in that
short period of time with out it being related to another health issue such
as Liver etc, or it being a lab error.

peace,
Barbara



> >^,,^< Cats-haven Hobby Farm >^,,^< >^,,^<
>
> "There are millions of intelligent species in the universe, and they are
> all owned by cats" -- Asimov
>
> Custom handcrafts, Sterling silver beaded jewelry
> http://cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAP...s&userid=katra

Dave Smith wrote:

> It's all too confusing for me. I prefer to go by the
> Mediterranean diet. "They" say that French and Italians
> have a lot of garlic and drink red wine and that something
> in that diet helps to reduce cholesterol. That is simple
> enough ot understand and works for me.


The French and Italians don't eat Pop Tarts... *that's* the reason...
not because they eat lots of garlic or drink red wine... (though it
doesn't hurt)...

~john!


--
What was it like to see - the face of your own stability - suddenly look
away...

Levelwave© wrote:
> Dave Smith wrote:
>
>> It's all too confusing for me. I prefer to go by the
>> Mediterranean diet. "They" say that French and Italians
>> have a lot of garlic and drink red wine and that something
>> in that diet helps to reduce cholesterol. That is simple
>> enough ot understand and works for me.
>
>
>
> The French and Italians don't eat Pop Tarts... *that's* the reason...
> not because they eat lots of garlic or drink red wine... (though it
> doesn't hurt)...
>
> ~john!
>
>

Judging by your posts, you are completely clueless, and a victim of the
*Diet Culture* industry.

Garlic has been scientifically proven to lower BP, among other health
benefits.

Red wine raises HDL (good chol.) and decreases platelet
aggregation--among other things we still don't know.

Last, Italians eat nutella and bread, and the US eats pop tarts; not too
much of a difference there. And the French, let's not even go there with
respect to their pastries; I gather from your comments you haven't been
to France, nor are familiar with their cuisine.

Please obtain your information from scientific resources; not from snake
oil ones.

Richard

--
"..A census taker once tried to test me. I ate his liver with some fava
beans and a nice chianti..."

Hannibal "The Cannibal"

Silence Of The Lambs 1991

Richard Periut wrote:

> Judging by your posts, you are completely clueless, and a victim of the
> *Diet Culture* industry.


Nope. You, as is typical for stupid people, jump to conclusions... read
below...


> Garlic has been scientifically proven to lower BP, among other health
> benefits.


Duh.


> Red wine raises HDL (good chol.) and decreases platelet
> aggregation--among other things we still don't know.


Maybe. The fact is that just because the French and Italians eat garlic
and drink Red Wine has ZERO responsibility for us (USA) being fat asses
with heart disease and them (Europe) not... That's why I said taking
those (Garlic and Red Wine) couldn't hurt... but the real reason is we
eat too many refined foods... PERIOD


> Please obtain your information from scientific resources; not from snake
> oil ones.


See what happens when you speak before you think?... You end up looking
like a fool... but in your case I'm not sure an infinite amount of time
thinking would have helped...


~john!


--
What was it like to see - the face of your own stability - suddenly look
away...

Levelwave© wrote:
> Richard Periut wrote:
>
>> Judging by your posts, you are completely clueless, and a victim of
>> the *Diet Culture* industry.
>
>
>
> Nope. You, as is typical for stupid people, jump to conclusions... read
> below...
>
>
>> Garlic has been scientifically proven to lower BP, among other health
>> benefits.
>
>
>
> Duh.
>
>
>> Red wine raises HDL (good chol.) and decreases platelet
>> aggregation--among other things we still don't know.
>
>
>
> Maybe. The fact is that just because the French and Italians eat garlic
> and drink Red Wine has ZERO responsibility for us (USA) being fat asses
> with heart disease and them (Europe) not... That's why I said taking
> those (Garlic and Red Wine) couldn't hurt... but the real reason is we
> eat too many refined foods... PERIOD
>
>
>> Please obtain your information from scientific resources; not from
>> snake oil ones.
>
>
>
> See what happens when you speak before you think?... You end up looking
> like a fool... but in your case I'm not sure an infinite amount of time
> thinking would have helped...
>
>
> ~john!
>
>

I was not implying that because the French an Italians eat garlic and
drink red wine as the only factor that places them in a different
stratum of risk, I was pointing out your senseless utter. There are
other factors involved, and lack of exercise and fast paced life
probably contribute.

As far as the fool, I can post google links to my aforementioned; with
scientific analysis:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract


http://wine.about.com/b/a/040432.htm

Now can you post your links where it scientifically states that the USA
has higher risks of heart disease because they eat Pop Tarts, and the
Europeans don't?

Apparently, you, like some people that have no authority on the matter
but has read a little bit on it, confuse statements.

Being semi informed, can be very dangerous; especially to others.

BTW, do you have any credentials that can at least inform me that you
are knowledgeable on the subject?

Richard


--
"..A census taker once tried to test me. I ate his liver with some fava
beans and a nice chianti..."

Hannibal "The Cannibal"

Silence Of The Lambs 1991

Levelwave© wrote:
> Z GIRL wrote:
>
>> Katra that sounds like a Lab error to me. In my background with 10
>> years in
>> the medical field I have never ever heard of a drop that drastic in that
>> short period of time with out it being related to another health issue
>> such
>> as Liver etc, or it being a lab error.
>
>
>
> Nope... She's correct... Refined flour and starchy carbs is *solely*
> responsible for this nations obesity and heart disease epidemic...
> Grains are for peasants... or rabbits... it's trash food... Go two weeks
> eating only Meat and non-starchy vegetables... you will feel strange for
> about 3 days but after that you will feel better than you *ever* have in
> your life... Dr. Atkins (though not the first advocate) will go down in
> the history books for his "Diet Revolution"... and a revolution it is...
> for the US anyway...
>
> ~john!
>
>

After reading this, I can only say that you are so friggin uninformed
and clue less, that I'm not even going to bother with a friggin
numbskull like you.

Richard

--
"..A census taker once tried to test me. I ate his liver with some fava
beans and a nice chianti..."

Hannibal "The Cannibal"

Silence Of The Lambs 1991

"" wrote:
>
> A question for the food chemists;
>
> My cholesterol level is getting to the
> "we must do something about this" level.
>
> My doctor went into a tirade about
> polys and trans-fats, and hydrogenation.......
> But either he didn't explain it well,
> or it was just too much jargon to assimilate.
>
> I've been doing some research, and,
> tried reading food labels, but they seem to contradict.
>
> Do I care about;
> Total fat ? Partially saturated ? Unsaturated ?
> Is there a web-site that sorts this out ?
> Better yet.... which foods/ingredients to avoid.
> Is there an easy "hook" that'll help me remember these ?
>
> <rj>
>
> <rj>

We just went to a dietary seminar at the local heart hospital about
this. This information is based on their own patient statistics,
regarding blood chemistry and types of heart disease. This is from the
notes that I took and the printed info they provided.

The general drift was, first, that intake of dietary *cholesterol*
doesn't affect blood cholesterol levels for many, but not all people.
Then the intake of saturated fats and trans-fats doesn't affect blood
cholesterol much for most, but not all people. However, it can
contribute to clogging arteries anyway, in a variety of other mechanisms
(which they didn't discuss).

Total serum cholesterol isn't the whole story, no matter what. There are
other factors which contribute to heart disease, such as the balance of
cholesterol types and triglycerides, plus the usual suspects of
overweight, stress and smoking.

There is *no* dietary need for trans-fats, which are mostly synthetic
anyway or for saturated fats (those fats which are solid at room temp).

Lowering total fat somewhat for many people will lower calories, which
isn't a bad thing over all, given that most Americans are overweight.

Excessive refined carbohydrates (white flour, white sugar etc) will
contribute to the wrong distribution of triglycerides in many, but not
all, people. Since there isn't any dietary need for refined carbs, might
as well cut down on those too.

The summary was: cut down on saturated and trans-fats, which aren't
necessary to the diet. Cut down on refined carbohydrates, which also
aren't necessary to the diet. Eat lots of greens, whole grains and
fruits and vegs. Use natural vegetable oils in place of solid fats
(including margarine) in cooking.

Get exercise! Many of their patients bring their cholesterol ratios and
triglycerides back into line with exercise and minor modifications of
diet.

That's about it from the heart hospital.

Z GIRL wrote:
>
> "Katra" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> >
> > "" wrote:
> > >
> > > A question for the food chemists;
> > >
> > > My cholesterol level is getting to the
> > > "we must do something about this" level.
> > >
> > > My doctor went into a tirade about
> > > polys and trans-fats, and hydrogenation.......
> > > But either he didn't explain it well,
> > > or it was just too much jargon to assimilate.
> > >
> > > I've been doing some research, and,
> > > tried reading food labels, but they seem to contradict.
> > >
> > > Do I care about;
> > > Total fat ? Partially saturated ? Unsaturated ?
> > > Is there a web-site that sorts this out ?
> > > Better yet.... which foods/ingredients to avoid.
> > > Is there an easy "hook" that'll help me remember these ?
> > >
> >
> > First of all, fat/cholesterol intake has nothing, NOTHING to do with
> > your serum cholesterol levels... That has been proven time and again
> > with more recent research.
> >
> > Here is anecdotal proof for you:
> >
> > Al, one of my co-workers, had a triglyceride level of over 800 mg/dl.
> > His Cholesterol was over 300.
> >
> > Mayonnaise for blood basically. A cardiac death sentence.
> >
> > He read some of Atkins books and decided to try the Atkins diet.
> >
> > 14 days later, (yes folks, only 14 days!) we re-drew his blood and ran
> > it again.
> >
> > Cholesterol had dropped to 170 and Triglycerides to 90 mg/dl.
> >
> > Drastic, drastic drop in a short period of time.
> >
> > Sugar and starch is the enemy if you have a problem with blood lipids...
> >
> > Al eats butter, bacon, eggs, etc. Fat has jack to do with blood lipid
> > levels. Really. :-)
> >
> > Try it for 2 weeks. I dare you.
> >
> > K. (an Atkins convert....)
> >
> > --
>
> Katra that sounds like a Lab error to me. In my background with 10 years in
> the medical field I have never ever heard of a drop that drastic in that
> short period of time with out it being related to another health issue such
> as Liver etc, or it being a lab error.
>
> peace,
> Barbara
>
>

I'm inclined to agree. None of the well-constructed studies I've read
give such drastic results in the absence of other factors. I've lived
with and worked with several people on lipid/triglyceride management
diets/regimens. Even with statins, it took a lot longer than that for
anything significant to happen.

Levelwave© wrote:
>
> Dave Smith wrote:
>
> > It's all too confusing for me. I prefer to go by the
> > Mediterranean diet. "They" say that French and Italians
> > have a lot of garlic and drink red wine and that something
> > in that diet helps to reduce cholesterol. That is simple
> > enough ot understand and works for me.
>
> The French and Italians don't eat Pop Tarts... *that's* the reason...
> not because they eat lots of garlic or drink red wine... (though it
> doesn't hurt)...
>
> ~john!
>
>
But they eat a lot of white bread and pasta and potatoes. The answer
isn't that simple, when discussing a population, rather than
individuals.

"Levelwave©" > wrote in message
...
> Z GIRL wrote:
>
> > Katra that sounds like a Lab error to me. In my background with 10
years in
> > the medical field I have never ever heard of a drop that drastic in that
> > short period of time with out it being related to another health issue
such
> > as Liver etc, or it being a lab error.
>
>
> Nope... She's correct... Refined flour and starchy carbs is *solely*
> responsible for this nations obesity and heart disease epidemic...
> Grains are for peasants... or rabbits... it's trash food... Go two weeks
> eating only Meat and non-starchy vegetables... you will feel strange for
> about 3 days but after that you will feel better than you *ever* have in
> your life... Dr. Atkins (though not the first advocate) will go down in
> the history books for his "Diet Revolution"... and a revolution it is...
> for the US anyway...
>
> ~john!
>

John I am talking about the Numbers she gave for Cholesterol and
Triglycerides.
Surely you are not saying that is correct. I doubt that the first lab result
were correct. Different things will affect the results of a blood test.
Blood sitting on a clot with out being spun soon enough can give a false
positive and that is just for starters.

peace,
Barbara
>
> --
> What was it like to see - the face of your own stability - suddenly look
> away...
>

Richard Periut wrote:

> After reading this, I can only say that you are so friggin uninformed
> and *clueless*, that I'm not even going to bother with a friggin
> numbskull like you.


Rather than sling insults or call you slow ("clueless" is one word by
the way) I'm going to call you close-minded... You need to distinguish
the difference between being innovative and something being a fad... Yes
High Protein/Low Carb is a popular diet right now and could be
misconstrued as a fad... but by your line of reasoning you are refusing
to accept something based on popularity... If you would do some research
or simply read some of the previous posts above (or even read some of
Pastorio's past rants on the issue) you would see that this is *not* a
fad and in fact (as the AMA has just learned) a very considerable and
compelling new REVOLUTION in the old school ways of dieting... You can't
invalidate my opinion just because it happens to be popular with the
"Diet Culture"... and as far as me being a victim of the *Diet Culture*
industry - I *am* part of the Industry... I know what goes on behind the
scenes... and I know how to distinguish between fact and false
information... In fact I make a living from it...

~john!


--
What was it like to see - the face of your own stability - suddenly look
away...

It sounds like there are 2 questions here, the one you asked and the one
you didn't:

What was my doctor talking about?
What should I do to lower my cholesterol in contradiction to my doctor's
advice?

The group has run with the second question. I'll try to return to the
first.

Assuming you'd like to follow your doctor's advice to try to lower your
cholesterol with diet and lifestyle change, try this:

1. Lower your total intake of fats if you were getting an especially
high-fat diet in the first place. You'll definitely need some fat in
your diet, but try to keep it in the 20-25% of total calories consumed.

2. Think of fats and oils as going from good to bad as follows:

Best: Oils from natural vegetable sources such as olive oil or corn
oil. In general, the more liquid it is at lower temperatures, the
better. So olive oil which is liquid at room temperature is better than
lard which is solid at room temperature.

Good: Fats from animal sources such as butter and meat.

Bad: Fats created in the lab such as hydrogenated palm oil or Crisco
shortening.

As much as reasonably possible, get more of your fats from the best and
good lists and less from the bad list.

3. Exercise, especially aerobic exercise.

4. Stop smoking and taking birth control pills.

5. Get more fiber in your diet from whole grains and vegetables.

I'm not going into the business of giving out advice over the 'Net. I'm
a cook, not a doctor or nutritionist, but if you want an easy way to
remember what your doctor said, I'm fairly sure s/he was talking about
the above.

--Lia


wrote:
> A question for the food chemists;
>
> My cholesterol level is getting to the
> "we must do something about this" level.
>
> My doctor went into a tirade about
> polys and trans-fats, and hydrogenation.......
> But either he didn't explain it well,
> or it was just too much jargon to assimilate.
>
> I've been doing some research, and,
> tried reading food labels, but they seem to contradict.
>
> Do I care about;
> Total fat ? Partially saturated ? Unsaturated ?
> Is there a web-site that sorts this out ?
> Better yet.... which foods/ingredients to avoid.
> Is there an easy "hook" that'll help me remember these ?
>
> <rj>
>
> <rj>

besides other suggestion don't eat processed foods. that's a simple one. and
exercise. not eating as many carbs can help too but the exercise is one of the
biggest keys.

--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.

Arri London wrote:
> "" wrote:
>
>>A question for the food chemists;
>>
>>My cholesterol level is getting to the
>>"we must do something about this" level.
>>
>>My doctor went into a tirade about
>>polys and trans-fats, and hydrogenation.......
>>But either he didn't explain it well,
>>or it was just too much jargon to assimilate.
>>
>>I've been doing some research, and,
>>tried reading food labels, but they seem to contradict.
>>
>>Do I care about;
>>Total fat ? Partially saturated ? Unsaturated ?
>>Is there a web-site that sorts this out ?
>>Better yet.... which foods/ingredients to avoid.
>>Is there an easy "hook" that'll help me remember these ?
>>
>><rj>
>>
>><rj>
>
>
> We just went to a dietary seminar at the local heart hospital about
> this. This information is based on their own patient statistics,
> regarding blood chemistry and types of heart disease. This is from the
> notes that I took and the printed info they provided.
>
> The general drift was, first, that intake of dietary *cholesterol*
> doesn't affect blood cholesterol levels for many, but not all people.
> Then the intake of saturated fats and trans-fats doesn't affect blood
> cholesterol much for most, but not all people. However, it can
> contribute to clogging arteries anyway, in a variety of other mechanisms
> (which they didn't discuss).
>
> Total serum cholesterol isn't the whole story, no matter what. There are
> other factors which contribute to heart disease, such as the balance of
> cholesterol types and triglycerides, plus the usual suspects of
> overweight, stress and smoking.
>
> There is *no* dietary need for trans-fats, which are mostly synthetic
> anyway or for saturated fats (those fats which are solid at room temp).
>
> Lowering total fat somewhat for many people will lower calories, which
> isn't a bad thing over all, given that most Americans are overweight.
>
> Excessive refined carbohydrates (white flour, white sugar etc) will
> contribute to the wrong distribution of triglycerides in many, but not
> all, people. Since there isn't any dietary need for refined carbs, might
> as well cut down on those too.
>
> The summary was: cut down on saturated and trans-fats, which aren't
> necessary to the diet. Cut down on refined carbohydrates, which also
> aren't necessary to the diet. Eat lots of greens, whole grains and
> fruits and vegs. Use natural vegetable oils in place of solid fats
> (including margarine) in cooking.
>
> Get exercise! Many of their patients bring their cholesterol ratios and
> triglycerides back into line with exercise and minor modifications of
> diet.
>
> That's about it from the heart hospital.


No mention of high blood levels of iron?

There's a pretty good theory that premenopausal women have low incidence of
heart attacks and coronary artery disease because they are always a little
anemic from their monthly blood loss -- nothing at all to do with estrogen
and everything to do with iron levels. Men and post-menopause women have
no way of shedding excess iron because the body hoards iron so effectively.

It's one reason I give blood regularly.

Best regards,
Bob

Z GIRL wrote:
> Katra that sounds like a Lab error to me. In my background with 10
> years in the medical field I have never ever heard of a drop that
> drastic in that short period of time with out it being related to
> another health issue such as Liver etc, or it being a lab error.

You are correct, it takes a month or two for lipid levels to drop that
much. Something else must have been wrong.

--
John Gaughan
http://www.johngaughan.net/

Richard Periut wrote:
>
> ConnieG999 wrote:
> > Katra > writes:
> >
> >
> >>First of all, fat/cholesterol intake has nothing, NOTHING to do with
> >>your serum cholesterol levels... That has been proven time and again
> >>with more recent research.
> >
> >
> > Well, most of the time, anyway. I wouldn't go so far as to say "nothing"
> > because there may be those few people out there who are affected.
> >
> > You are correct that recent research determines that high cholesterol levels
> > are almost always a matter of heredity or chemical imbalance.
> >
> > Cholesterol is not a deadly substance. It is the vital substance
> > from which your brain is made; from which your hormones
> > are made; and from which your cell membranes are made.
> > Cholesterol is so important that your own liver produces
> > 2000 milligrams of it daily just to make sure you have
> > enough. If you fall for the popular anti-fat propaganda
> > and eat a low cholesterol diet, your own liver will make
> > all the more in a desperate attempt to produce enough.
> > Understand that when cholesterol does build up to
> > abnormally high levels in your blood it has nothing to do
> > with how much cholesterol you ate. It has to do with an
> > imbalance in your body chemistry that prevents you from
> > handling cholesterol properly.
> >
> > This is why so many people, despite totally restrictive diets, still cannot
> > lower their serum cholesterol levels. And this is also why drugs such as
> > Lipitor are immediately effective and successful when diet fails - which is
> > almost always.
> >
> > Connie
> > ************************************************** ***
> > My mind is like a steel...um, whatchamacallit.
> >
>
> Still, authorities like the Heart, Lung, Blood institute, recommend life
> style modifications (diet, exercise, et cetera,) as first line treatment
> protocol. There is a small but significant % of patients that will
> respond to it. Depending on other risk factors for Coronary Artery
> Disease, a physician may decide to use Statins from the start.
>
> Richard
>
> --

It still drives me nuts that I see so many people fail to control their
cholesterol.... on low fat diets! :-P And their providers keep pushing it.

And the vast majority of Atkins dieters achieve success in a short
period of time, without the destructive and dangerous lipid lowering
"drugs". :-(

Providing you have the self discipline to stick to it. I love starch, so
I don't find the Atkins diet all that easy to stick to, and my
Cholesterol last week was 240, down from 300. And that is behaving
myself most of the time... Triglycerides were 150 (that's in normal
range), down from 320.

If I could just stay away from whole wheat pitas and the occasional
pasta binge, I'd be ok. :-) I plan to get some of this and that may help:

http://www.ketofoods.com/ezStore123/...?productID=389

Atkins was right, and it's been proven over and over and over again, and
still nobody listens!

What's up with that?

K.

--
>^,,^< Cats-haven Hobby Farm >^,,^< >^,,^<

"There are millions of intelligent species in the universe, and they are
all owned by cats" -- Asimov

Custom handcrafts, Sterling silver beaded jewelry
http://cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAP...s&userid=katra

Levelwave© wrote:
>
> ConnieG999 wrote:
>
> > And this is also why drugs such as
> > Lipitor are immediately effective and successful when diet fails - which is
> > almost always.
>
> By taking Lipitor you end up trading one problem for another... Lipitor
> will lower your cholesterol at the expense of your liver... Statins not
> only destroy your liver but deplete your body of Co-Enzyme Q10... If a
> doctor prescribes Statins to someone who does not have an immediate
> health concern then it's time to find a new doctor... Anything that can
> be controlled with diet and exercise should be... Way too many doctors
> are outdated and/or lazy...
>
> ~john!
>
> --

And suckered in by the drug reps..... :-P

Levelwave© wrote:
>
> Z GIRL wrote:
>
> > Katra that sounds like a Lab error to me. In my background with 10 years in
> > the medical field I have never ever heard of a drop that drastic in that
> > short period of time with out it being related to another health issue such
> > as Liver etc, or it being a lab error.

I doubt it. ;-)
He ran it himself and it duplicated on re-run...

From what I've read on the Atkins diet, this is not all that unusual. <G>

Amazing isn't it?

>
> Nope... She's correct... Refined flour and starchy carbs is *solely*
> responsible for this nations obesity and heart disease epidemic...
> Grains are for peasants... or rabbits... it's trash food... Go two weeks
> eating only Meat and non-starchy vegetables... you will feel strange for
> about 3 days but after that you will feel better than you *ever* have in
> your life... Dr. Atkins (though not the first advocate) will go down in
> the history books for his "Diet Revolution"... and a revolution it is...
> for the US anyway...
>
> ~john!
>
> --
Thanks John! :-)

One of the advantages to working in the lab is that you can draw your
blood anytime and run levels. I've played around with my diet for years
and ran blood tests as often as once per month just to prove to myself
how DRASTIC some changes can be!

Besides, when I was studying body building nutrition, one of the
Authors, (Dr. Platt if I remember correctly) stated in his book that
your body needs to MAKE cholesterol to metabolize simple carbs!!!

That was an eye opener for sure.

Oh, here is an interesting one for you.

My HDL cholesterol (that is the good one) usually runs in the mid to
high 50's. Mom and I got a real deal on Shrimp one time (I have a real
passion for shrimp!) and we pigged out on it for about a week.

My HDL jumped to over 90!!!

I've since duplicated that experiment by eating shrimp for 3 or 4 days
straight, then running an HDL. Last time I ate about 8 to 10 oz. of
shrimp per day for 3 days and my HDL was in the high 70's. It stayed
that way for nearly 2 weeks too...

K.

--
>^,,^< Cats-haven Hobby Farm >^,,^< >^,,^<

"There are millions of intelligent species in the universe, and they are
all owned by cats" -- Asimov

Custom handcrafts, Sterling silver beaded jewelry
http://cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAP...s&userid=katra

Richard Periut wrote:
>
> Levelwave© wrote:
> > Z GIRL wrote:
> >
> >> Katra that sounds like a Lab error to me. In my background with 10
> >> years in
> >> the medical field I have never ever heard of a drop that drastic in that
> >> short period of time with out it being related to another health issue
> >> such
> >> as Liver etc, or it being a lab error.
> >
> >
> >
> > Nope... She's correct... Refined flour and starchy carbs is *solely*
> > responsible for this nations obesity and heart disease epidemic...
> > Grains are for peasants... or rabbits... it's trash food... Go two weeks
> > eating only Meat and non-starchy vegetables... you will feel strange for
> > about 3 days but after that you will feel better than you *ever* have in
> > your life... Dr. Atkins (though not the first advocate) will go down in
> > the history books for his "Diet Revolution"... and a revolution it is...
> > for the US anyway...
> >
> > ~john!
> >
> >
>
> After reading this, I can only say that you are so friggin uninformed
> and clue less, that I'm not even going to bother with a friggin
> numbskull like you.
>
> Richard
>
> --

<sigh>
All I ask is that you try it...

A two week trial is NOT going to kill you, if you have high blood lipid
levels! And can afford to have the tests run.

Providing you have the self discipline to truly stick to it. It's not
all that easy at first!

My downfall is my nightly glass of wine habit. :-( Wine is high in
sugar. I also love whole wheat pita bread stuffed full of Alfalfa sprouts.

K.
--

Arri London wrote:
>
> Z GIRL wrote:
> >
> > "Katra" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > >
> > > "" wrote:
> > > >
> > > > A question for the food chemists;
> > > >
> > > > My cholesterol level is getting to the
> > > > "we must do something about this" level.
> > > >
> > > > My doctor went into a tirade about
> > > > polys and trans-fats, and hydrogenation.......
> > > > But either he didn't explain it well,
> > > > or it was just too much jargon to assimilate.
> > > >
> > > > I've been doing some research, and,
> > > > tried reading food labels, but they seem to contradict.
> > > >
> > > > Do I care about;
> > > > Total fat ? Partially saturated ? Unsaturated ?
> > > > Is there a web-site that sorts this out ?
> > > > Better yet.... which foods/ingredients to avoid.
> > > > Is there an easy "hook" that'll help me remember these ?
> > > >
> > >
> > > First of all, fat/cholesterol intake has nothing, NOTHING to do with
> > > your serum cholesterol levels... That has been proven time and again
> > > with more recent research.
> > >
> > > Here is anecdotal proof for you:
> > >
> > > Al, one of my co-workers, had a triglyceride level of over 800 mg/dl.
> > > His Cholesterol was over 300.
> > >
> > > Mayonnaise for blood basically. A cardiac death sentence.
> > >
> > > He read some of Atkins books and decided to try the Atkins diet.
> > >
> > > 14 days later, (yes folks, only 14 days!) we re-drew his blood and ran
> > > it again.
> > >
> > > Cholesterol had dropped to 170 and Triglycerides to 90 mg/dl.
> > >
> > > Drastic, drastic drop in a short period of time.
> > >
> > > Sugar and starch is the enemy if you have a problem with blood lipids...
> > >
> > > Al eats butter, bacon, eggs, etc. Fat has jack to do with blood lipid
> > > levels. Really. :-)
> > >
> > > Try it for 2 weeks. I dare you.
> > >
> > > K. (an Atkins convert....)
> > >
> > > --
> >
> > Katra that sounds like a Lab error to me. In my background with 10 years in
> > the medical field I have never ever heard of a drop that drastic in that
> > short period of time with out it being related to another health issue such
> > as Liver etc, or it being a lab error.
> >
> > peace,
> > Barbara
> >
> >
>
> I'm inclined to agree. None of the well-constructed studies I've read
> give such drastic results in the absence of other factors. I've lived
> with and worked with several people on lipid/triglyceride management
> diets/regimens. Even with statins, it took a lot longer than that for
> anything significant to happen.


That is statins... Crap drugs pushed by crooked drug companies!

D'you really think that WE believed it at first???

He re-ran them a couple of times, and the machines were working, and
controls were in range.

We don't make mistakes like that if we can help it, and I am NOT making
this up! :-) If Al is willing, I can send you his e-mail.

This was just one person tho' remember. He re-runs his levels monthly
now to check and every time he cheats with starches, his levels start
going up again.

K.

--
>^,,^< Cats-haven Hobby Farm >^,,^< >^,,^<

"There are millions of intelligent species in the universe, and they are
all owned by cats" -- Asimov

Custom handcrafts, Sterling silver beaded jewelry
http://cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAP...s&userid=katra

Arri London wrote:
>
> Levelwave© wrote:
> >
> > Dave Smith wrote:
> >
> > > It's all too confusing for me. I prefer to go by the
> > > Mediterranean diet. "They" say that French and Italians
> > > have a lot of garlic and drink red wine and that something
> > > in that diet helps to reduce cholesterol. That is simple
> > > enough ot understand and works for me.
> >
> > The French and Italians don't eat Pop Tarts... *that's* the reason...
> > not because they eat lots of garlic or drink red wine... (though it
> > doesn't hurt)...
> >
> > ~john!
> >
> >
> But they eat a lot of white bread and pasta and potatoes. The answer
> isn't that simple, when discussing a population, rather than
> individuals.


That is actually a valid point...

Al's results are exceptional, and he is just one person.

This would have to be tested on a minimum of 20 people, preferably more
like 100 for a good sample.

If you could get them to truly comply.

Thing is, Atkins was a cardiologist.

He tested his theories on hundreds of his patients.

And got consistant results...

K.

--
>^,,^< Cats-haven Hobby Farm >^,,^< >^,,^<

"There are millions of intelligent species in the universe, and they are
all owned by cats" -- Asimov

Custom handcrafts, Sterling silver beaded jewelry
http://cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAP...s&userid=katra

Z GIRL wrote:
>
> "Levelwave©" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Z GIRL wrote:
> >
> > > Katra that sounds like a Lab error to me. In my background with 10
> years in
> > > the medical field I have never ever heard of a drop that drastic in that
> > > short period of time with out it being related to another health issue
> such
> > > as Liver etc, or it being a lab error.
> >
> >
> > Nope... She's correct... Refined flour and starchy carbs is *solely*
> > responsible for this nations obesity and heart disease epidemic...
> > Grains are for peasants... or rabbits... it's trash food... Go two weeks
> > eating only Meat and non-starchy vegetables... you will feel strange for
> > about 3 days but after that you will feel better than you *ever* have in
> > your life... Dr. Atkins (though not the first advocate) will go down in
> > the history books for his "Diet Revolution"... and a revolution it is...
> > for the US anyway...
> >
> > ~john!
> >
>
> John I am talking about the Numbers she gave for Cholesterol and
> Triglycerides.
> Surely you are not saying that is correct. I doubt that the first lab result
> were correct. Different things will affect the results of a blood test.
> Blood sitting on a clot with out being spun soon enough can give a false
> positive and that is just for starters.
>
> peace,
> Barbara
> >
> > --

<Snicker>
When we do our own testing, it's done right away... :-)
It is drawn, allowed to clot for, say, 5 or 10 minutes, (the tubes we
use have a clot activator), then put right on the analyzer. The
specimens are less than an hour old by the time results are generated...

If the serum is cloudy, good bet it has a high trig. level.
I've seen specimens from patients with pancreatitis that had to be sent
off for ultra-centrufigation as the trig's were SO high, the machine
could not deal with that cloudy of a sample! Trig's over 3,000 or so. :-P

K.

--
>^,,^< Cats-haven Hobby Farm >^,,^< >^,,^<

"There are millions of intelligent species in the universe, and they are
all owned by cats" -- Asimov

Custom handcrafts, Sterling silver beaded jewelry
http://cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAP...s&userid=katra

zxcvbob wrote:
>
> Arri London wrote:
> > "" wrote:
> >
> >>A question for the food chemists;
> >>
> >>My cholesterol level is getting to the
> >>"we must do something about this" level.
> >>
> >>My doctor went into a tirade about
> >>polys and trans-fats, and hydrogenation.......
> >>But either he didn't explain it well,
> >>or it was just too much jargon to assimilate.
> >>
> >>I've been doing some research, and,
> >>tried reading food labels, but they seem to contradict.
> >>
> >>Do I care about;
> >>Total fat ? Partially saturated ? Unsaturated ?
> >>Is there a web-site that sorts this out ?
> >>Better yet.... which foods/ingredients to avoid.
> >>Is there an easy "hook" that'll help me remember these ?
> >>
> >><rj>
> >>
> >><rj>
> >
> >
> > We just went to a dietary seminar at the local heart hospital about
> > this. This information is based on their own patient statistics,
> > regarding blood chemistry and types of heart disease. This is from the
> > notes that I took and the printed info they provided.
> >
> > The general drift was, first, that intake of dietary *cholesterol*
> > doesn't affect blood cholesterol levels for many, but not all people.
> > Then the intake of saturated fats and trans-fats doesn't affect blood
> > cholesterol much for most, but not all people. However, it can
> > contribute to clogging arteries anyway, in a variety of other mechanisms
> > (which they didn't discuss).
> >
> > Total serum cholesterol isn't the whole story, no matter what. There are
> > other factors which contribute to heart disease, such as the balance of
> > cholesterol types and triglycerides, plus the usual suspects of
> > overweight, stress and smoking.
> >
> > There is *no* dietary need for trans-fats, which are mostly synthetic
> > anyway or for saturated fats (those fats which are solid at room temp).
> >
> > Lowering total fat somewhat for many people will lower calories, which
> > isn't a bad thing over all, given that most Americans are overweight.
> >
> > Excessive refined carbohydrates (white flour, white sugar etc) will
> > contribute to the wrong distribution of triglycerides in many, but not
> > all, people. Since there isn't any dietary need for refined carbs, might
> > as well cut down on those too.
> >
> > The summary was: cut down on saturated and trans-fats, which aren't
> > necessary to the diet. Cut down on refined carbohydrates, which also
> > aren't necessary to the diet. Eat lots of greens, whole grains and
> > fruits and vegs. Use natural vegetable oils in place of solid fats
> > (including margarine) in cooking.
> >
> > Get exercise! Many of their patients bring their cholesterol ratios and
> > triglycerides back into line with exercise and minor modifications of
> > diet.
> >
> > That's about it from the heart hospital.
>
> No mention of high blood levels of iron?
>
> There's a pretty good theory that premenopausal women have low incidence of
> heart attacks and coronary artery disease because they are always a little
> anemic from their monthly blood loss -- nothing at all to do with estrogen
> and everything to do with iron levels. Men and post-menopause women have
> no way of shedding excess iron because the body hoards iron so effectively.
>
> It's one reason I give blood regularly.
>
> Best regards,
> Bob


And then there is C-reactive protien levels...
and Homocystien.

Which can be aided by B-complex supplements. :-)

Look. It's actually pretty simple.
Excercise regularly, give up refined crap foods and eat a more natural
diet, (fresh veggies, fresh meats, low salt, whole grains etc.) and you
should see some good results.

No pop tarts, donuts, pizza, margarine, refined crap cereals like
wheaties, cheerios, cap'n crunch etc....

I think you get the idea.

A decent vitamin supplement high in B-complex can help.

And get plenty of sleep. Stress can also raise Cholesterol levels.

K.

--
>^,,^< Cats-haven Hobby Farm >^,,^< >^,,^<

"There are millions of intelligent species in the universe, and they are
all owned by cats" -- Asimov

Custom handcrafts, Sterling silver beaded jewelry
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John Gaughan wrote:
>
> Z GIRL wrote:
> > Katra that sounds like a Lab error to me. In my background with 10
> > years in the medical field I have never ever heard of a drop that
> > drastic in that short period of time with out it being related to
> > another health issue such as Liver etc, or it being a lab error.
>
> You are correct, it takes a month or two for lipid levels to drop that
> much. Something else must have been wrong.
>
> --
> John Gaughan

Look. He had run them in the past and they were always that high... It
was NOT the first time!

And we repeated the second (14 day) sample to check the results.

We are not stupid and we did not believe the results at first either!

That is one hell of a change for that short a period of time.

But, as I said before, this was just one individual. YMMV. :-)

K.

--
>^,,^< Cats-haven Hobby Farm >^,,^< >^,,^<

"There are millions of intelligent species in the universe, and they are
all owned by cats" -- Asimov

Custom handcrafts, Sterling silver beaded jewelry
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SNIP-----------------------------

> > > --
>
> <Snicker>
> When we do our own testing, it's done right away... :-)
> It is drawn, allowed to clot for, say, 5 or 10 minutes, (the tubes we
> use have a clot activator), then put right on the analyzer. The
> specimens are less than an hour old by the time results are generated...
>
> If the serum is cloudy, good bet it has a high trig. level.
> I've seen specimens from patients with pancreatitis that had to be sent
> off for ultra-centrufigation as the trig's were SO high, the machine
> could not deal with that cloudy of a sample! Trig's over 3,000 or so. :-P
>
> K.
>

Sorry Katra, I still dont buy it. Yes, you can tell when a speciman is
Lipemic ofter it is centerfuiged. Numbers that high that do not present the
same 2 weeks later are most likely from another cause as I said , or lab
error. It does not matter that the speciman was spun right away. Usually the
Liver is the cause, not always but other testing would need to be done to
diagnois.
You gave the example your self " from patients with Pancreatitis that had
to be sent off for ultra configuration as the trig's we SO high, the machine
sould not deal with that cloudy of a sample." Numbers that reach that high
that go down that quickly Are from another cause in most cases, just as the
one you cited.


peace,
Barbara




> --
> >^,,^< Cats-haven Hobby Farm >^,,^< >^,,^<
>
> "There are millions of intelligent species in the universe, and they are
> all owned by cats" -- Asimov
>
> Custom handcrafts, Sterling silver beaded jewelry
> http://cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAP...s&userid=katra

On Mon, 08 Dec 2003 18:03:54 -0700, Arri London >
wrote:

>>
>> I've been doing some research, and,
>> tried reading food labels, but they seem to contradict.
>>
>> Do I care about;
>> Total fat ? Partially saturated ? Unsaturated ?
>> Is there a web-site that sorts this out ?
>> Better yet.... which foods/ingredients to avoid.
>> Is there an easy "hook" that'll help me remember these ?
>>
>> <rj>
>>
>> <rj>
>
>We just went to a dietary seminar at the local heart hospital about
>this. This information is based on their own patient statistics,
>regarding blood chemistry and types of heart disease. This is from the
>notes that I took and the printed info they provided.
>
>The general drift was, first, that intake of dietary *cholesterol*
>doesn't affect blood cholesterol levels for many, but not all people.
>Then the intake of saturated fats and trans-fats doesn't affect blood
>cholesterol much for most, but not all people. However, it can
>contribute to clogging arteries anyway, in a variety of other mechanisms
>(which they didn't discuss).
>
>Total serum cholesterol isn't the whole story, no matter what. There are
>other factors which contribute to heart disease, such as the balance of
>cholesterol types and triglycerides, plus the usual suspects of
>overweight, stress and smoking.
>
>There is *no* dietary need for trans-fats, which are mostly synthetic
>anyway or for saturated fats (those fats which are solid at room temp).
>
>Lowering total fat somewhat for many people will lower calories, which
>isn't a bad thing over all, given that most Americans are overweight.
>
>Excessive refined carbohydrates (white flour, white sugar etc) will
>contribute to the wrong distribution of triglycerides in many, but not
>all, people. Since there isn't any dietary need for refined carbs, might
>as well cut down on those too.
>
>The summary was: cut down on saturated and trans-fats, which aren't
>necessary to the diet. Cut down on refined carbohydrates, which also
>aren't necessary to the diet. Eat lots of greens, whole grains and
>fruits and vegs. Use natural vegetable oils in place of solid fats
>(including margarine) in cooking.
>
>Get exercise! Many of their patients bring their cholesterol ratios and
>triglycerides back into line with exercise and minor modifications of
>diet.
>
>That's about it from the heart hospital.


This looks like an answer that I can use !

Reduce carbs ( a-la Atkins )
Reduce saturated fats.
Increase Veggies.

I can do this !!

Thanks
<rj>

In article >,
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Levelwave=A9?= > wrote:


> Nope... She's correct... Refined flour and starchy carbs is *solely*
> responsible for this nations obesity and heart disease epidemic...


All generalizations are false, including this one.

--
Dan Abel
Sonoma State University
AIS

"" wrote:
>
> On Mon, 08 Dec 2003 18:03:54 -0700, Arri London >
> wrote:
>
<snipped for brevity>
>
> This looks like an answer that I can use !
>
> Reduce carbs ( a-la Atkins )
> Reduce saturated fats.
> Increase Veggies.
>
> I can do this !!
>
> Thanks
> <rj>

And join your local gym... :-)

K.

--
>^,,^< Cats-haven Hobby Farm >^,,^< >^,,^<

"There are millions of intelligent species in the universe, and they are
all owned by cats" -- Asimov

Custom handcrafts, Sterling silver beaded jewelry
http://cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAP...s&userid=katra