Very OT passive do yourself in (caution)
 

I wonder how many old folks do nothing when faced with as medical issue as a
way of passive suicide?

When I am tired of al this BS will I start smoking again?

Very OT passive do yourself in (caution)
 

Dimitri wrote:
> I wonder how many old folks do nothing when faced with as medical issue
> as a way of passive suicide?
>
> When I am tired of al this BS will I start smoking again?
>
>


People whom I know did something quicker, like
refuse`any more dialysis, refuse treatment for
chronic pneumonia, refuse to eat.

I smoked for ten years and I wouldn't start again
on a bet. I can't stand the smell of it now.

gloria p

Very OT passive do yourself in (caution)
 

"Dimitri" > wrote in message
...
>I wonder how many old folks do nothing when faced with as medical issue as
>a way of passive suicide?
>
> When I am tired of al this BS will I start smoking again?
>
>
Having seen many courageous people fight for their life, and lose, I can
only say 'Good bye coward"

Tom

Very OT passive do yourself in (caution)
 

"Dimitri" > wrote in message
...
> I wonder how many old folks do nothing when faced with as medical issue as
a
> way of passive suicide?

based on how much money is wasted on unhelpful procedures in the last stages
of life, I would say not enough.

Very OT passive do yourself in (caution)
 

"Tom Biasi" > wrote in message ...
|
| "Dimitri" > wrote in message
| ...
| >I wonder how many old folks do nothing when faced with as medical issue as
| >a way of passive suicide?
| >
| > When I am tired of al this BS will I start smoking again?
| >
| >
| Having seen many courageous people fight for their life, and lose, I can
| only say 'Good bye coward"

Cowardice can also be a prolonged and actionless acceptance of
impending death rather than an affirmative action to keep one's
destiny in one's own hands. You may be insulting many courageous
and decisive people who simply will not wait to see what further
degradation life has to offer, but to exit with self-actuated dignity.

pavane

Very OT passive do yourself in (caution)
 

Tom Biasi wrote:
> "Dimitri" > wrote in message
> ...
>> I wonder how many old folks do nothing when faced with as medical
>> issue as a way of passive suicide?
>>
>> When I am tired of al this BS will I start smoking again?

> Having seen many courageous people fight for their life, and lose, I
> can only say 'Good bye coward"

Not everyone has such a strong will to live. When I see what lengths
some people go through to live, I'm in awe. Usually those people
have small children or some other motivation that makes them
do anything to hold on. I can't fault anyone for accepting their
fate, or for fighting. Surely we can make that decision for ourselves.

nancy

Very OT passive do yourself in (caution)
 

Nancy Young wrote:

>> Having seen many courageous people fight for their life, and lose, I
>> can only say 'Good bye coward"
>
> Not everyone has such a strong will to live. When I see what lengths
> some people go through to live, I'm in awe. Usually those people have
> small children or some other motivation that makes them
> do anything to hold on. I can't fault anyone for accepting their
> fate, or for fighting. Surely we can make that decision for ourselves.


Having watched a few people go through very painful deaths from cancers
I have a hard time thinking of it as cowardice. It is one thing to have
a condition that leaves you weak and feeble and something completely
different to face excruciating pain and knowing that it just going to
get worse and worse until the inevitable outcome.

Very OT passive do yourself in (caution)
 

"Dimitri" > wrote in message
...
>I wonder how many old folks do nothing when faced with as medical issue as
>a way of passive suicide?
>
> When I am tired of al this BS will I start smoking again?
>
>

Plenty. I had a family member make a choice of no treatment for lung cancer
when faced with the option of surgery. They would have removed most of one
lung and it would have left her bedridden for the rest of her life that
could easily have been 3 to 5 years. Or do nothing and still get around,
perhaps for a shorter time. She lasted about 3 years, but with mobility.
The last six weeks, however, were painful for her and the family around her.
Don't smoke. Not a good way to go.

CT is looking at modifying the laws for doctors so they can prescribe drug
if you want to go.

Very OT passive do yourself in (caution)
 

Ranée at Arabian Knits wrote:
> In article >,
> "Ed Pawlowski" > wrote:
>
>> CT is looking at modifying the laws for doctors so they can prescribe drug
>> if you want to go.
>
> Why? Have they outlawed poison things, guns, knives and ropes?

Killing oneself in those ways is messy, scary, and often results in
maiming or severe illness, rather than the desired result.

Serene

--
42 Magazine, celebrating life with meaning. Issue 2 is here!
http://42magazine.com

"I tend to come down on the side of autonomy. Once people are grown up,
I believe they have the right to go to hell in the handbasket of their
choosing." -- Pat Kight, on alt.polyamory

Very OT passive do yourself in (caution)
 

"Dimitri" > wrote in message
...
>I wonder how many old folks do nothing when faced with as medical issue as
>a way of passive suicide?
>
> When I am tired of al this BS will I start smoking again?
>
>
Living with the natural history of lung CA is a pretty shitty way to end
things.

Very OT passive do yourself in (caution)
 

On Tue, 20 Oct 2009 17:05:28 -0700, "Dimitri" >
wrote:

>I wonder how many old folks do nothing when faced with as medical issue as a
>way of passive suicide?

Or they go active - in starvation mode. It's cruel to hook them up,
let them die in peace.
>
>When I am tired of al this BS will I start smoking again?
>
Too slow. Think of something else.



--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

Very OT passive do yourself in (caution)
 

On Tue, 20 Oct 2009 21:48:26 -0400, "Tom Biasi"
> wrote:

>
>"Dimitri" > wrote in message
...
>>I wonder how many old folks do nothing when faced with as medical issue as
>>a way of passive suicide?
>>
>> When I am tired of al this BS will I start smoking again?
>>
>>
>Having seen many courageous people fight for their life, and lose, I can
>only say 'Good bye coward"
>
I don't think he's talking about a young person. At the end of life,
you need to know when to call it quits. Nobody lasts forever and if
quality of life is gone, what's the point? Outliving friends and
relatives, being kept alive by artificial means and/or in a nursing
home... give me death because that's not the life I want to live.

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

Very OT passive do yourself in (caution)
 

On Tue, 20 Oct 2009 22:53:22 -0400, "Ed Pawlowski" >
wrote:

>CT is looking at modifying the laws for doctors so they can prescribe drug
>if you want to go.

It's about time we came into the modern age.

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

Very OT passive do yourself in (caution)
 

"pavane" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Tom Biasi" > wrote in message
> ...
> |
> | "Dimitri" > wrote in message
> | ...
> | >I wonder how many old folks do nothing when faced with as medical issue
> as
> | >a way of passive suicide?
> | >
> | > When I am tired of al this BS will I start smoking again?
> | >
> | >
> | Having seen many courageous people fight for their life, and lose, I can
> | only say 'Good bye coward"
>
> Cowardice can also be a prolonged and actionless acceptance of
> impending death rather than an affirmative action to keep one's
> destiny in one's own hands. You may be insulting many courageous
> and decisive people who simply will not wait to see what further
> degradation life has to offer, but to exit with self-actuated dignity.
>
> pavane
>
>
I take your point but I have a different view. Since neither really belongs
here I will concede.

Tom

Very OT passive do yourself in (caution)
 

On Tue, 20 Oct 2009 22:29:24 -0400, Nancy Young wrote:

> Tom Biasi wrote:
>> "Dimitri" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> I wonder how many old folks do nothing when faced with as medical
>>> issue as a way of passive suicide?
>>>
>>> When I am tired of al this BS will I start smoking again?
>
>> Having seen many courageous people fight for their life, and lose, I
>> can only say 'Good bye coward"
>
> Not everyone has such a strong will to live. When I see what lengths
> some people go through to live, I'm in awe. Usually those people
> have small children or some other motivation that makes them
> do anything to hold on. I can't fault anyone for accepting their
> fate, or for fighting. Surely we can make that decision for ourselves.
>
> nancy

on the list of things that are none of my (or your) business, this may be
on the top.

your pal,
blake

Very OT passive do yourself in (caution)
 

sf wrote:
> On Tue, 20 Oct 2009 21:48:26 -0400, "Tom Biasi"

>>
> I don't think he's talking about a young person. At the end of life,
> you need to know when to call it quits. Nobody lasts forever and if
> quality of life is gone, what's the point? Outliving friends and
> relatives, being kept alive by artificial means and/or in a nursing
> home... give me death because that's not the life I want to live.
>



But death is so...permanent.

gloria p

Very OT passive do yourself in (caution)
 

"Gloria P" > wrote in message
...
> sf wrote:
>> On Tue, 20 Oct 2009 21:48:26 -0400, "Tom Biasi"
>
>>>
>> I don't think he's talking about a young person. At the end of life,
>> you need to know when to call it quits. Nobody lasts forever and if
>> quality of life is gone, what's the point? Outliving friends and
>> relatives, being kept alive by artificial means and/or in a nursing
>> home... give me death because that's not the life I want to live.
>>
>
>
>
> But death is so...permanent.
>
Not necessarily. :)

Very OT passive do yourself in (caution)
 

On Oct 20, 8:05*pm, "Dimitri" > wrote:
> I wonder how many old folks do nothing when faced with as medical issue as a
> way of passive suicide?
>
> When I am tired of al this BS will I start smoking again?

Personally, when I'm ready to die, I want to try heroin. Where an
old, decrepit,sickly hag will find an honest pusher, I don't know.

maxine in ri

Very OT passive do yourself in (caution)
 

On Oct 20, 10:29*pm, "Nancy Young" > wrote:
> Tom Biasi wrote:
> > "Dimitri" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> I wonder how many old folks do nothing when faced with as medical
> >> issue as a way of passive suicide?
>
> >> When I am tired of al this BS will I start smoking again?
> > Having seen many courageous people fight for their life, and lose, I
> > can only say 'Good bye coward"
>
> Not everyone has such a strong will to live. *When I see what lengths
> some people go through to live, I'm in awe. *Usually those people
> have small children or some other motivation that makes them
> do anything to hold on. *I can't fault anyone for accepting their
> fate, or for fighting. *Surely we can make that decision for ourselves.
>
> nancy

And then there's my Mom, who wants to know what's going to happen
tomorrow, and to see her grandchildren (which she may have to live til
120 to acheive!)

maxine in ri

Very OT passive do yourself in (caution)
 

maxine in ri wrote:
> On Oct 20, 10:29 pm, "Nancy Young" > wrote:

>> Not everyone has such a strong will to live. When I see what lengths
>> some people go through to live, I'm in awe. Usually those people
>> have small children or some other motivation that makes them
>> do anything to hold on. I can't fault anyone for accepting their
>> fate, or for fighting. Surely we can make that decision for
>> ourselves.

> And then there's my Mom, who wants to know what's going to happen
> tomorrow, and to see her grandchildren (which she may have to live til
> 120 to acheive!)

(laugh) Power to her, hang in there!

nancy

Very OT passive do yourself in (caution)
 

"maxine in ri" > wrote
>And then there's my Mom, who wants to know what's going to happen
tomorrow

See, this is me. I want to see how everything turns out. And outlive all the
dickheads, too, just for fun.

Very OT passive do yourself in (caution)
 

Serene Vannoy wrote:
> Ranée at Arabian Knits wrote:
>> In article >,
>> "Ed Pawlowski" > wrote:
>>
>>> CT is looking at modifying the laws for doctors so they can prescribe
>>> drug if you want to go.
>>
>> Why? Have they outlawed poison things, guns, knives and ropes?
>
> Killing oneself in those ways is messy, scary, and often results in
> maiming or severe illness, rather than the desired result.
>
> Serene
>

Or you could get it right....this story is too sad.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/mas...shocks_newton/

or


http://tinyurl.com/ygjhlvf

This happened right down the street from work.

Tracy

Very OT passive do yourself in (caution)
 

On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 09:33:58 -0700 (PDT), maxine in ri
> wrote:

>Personally, when I'm ready to die, I want to try heroin. Where an
>old, decrepit,sickly hag will find an honest pusher, I don't know.

Why heroin? Do you want to be super skinny with black shadows under
your eyes? The heroin look wasn't becoming even when it was popular.

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

Very OT passive do yourself in (caution)
 

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> "Dimitri" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>I wonder how many old folks do nothing when faced with as medical issue as
>>a way of passive suicide?
>>
>>When I am tired of al this BS will I start smoking again?
>>
>>
>
>
> Plenty. I had a family member make a choice of no treatment for lung cancer
> when faced with the option of surgery. They would have removed most of one
> lung and it would have left her bedridden for the rest of her life that
> could easily have been 3 to 5 years. Or do nothing and still get around,
> perhaps for a shorter time. She lasted about 3 years, but with mobility.
> The last six weeks, however, were painful for her and the family around her.
> Don't smoke. Not a good way to go.
>
> CT is looking at modifying the laws for doctors so they can prescribe drug
> if you want to go.
>
>
The rich and powerful have always had that option, King George V
(reigned 1910 - 1936) the grandfather of the present Queen of England
was euthanised with his Wife, Queen Mary's concurrence.

His doctor wrote up the sequence of events in his own private diary and
it was only released to the public about 10 years ago ( he was,
obviously, pro euthanasia). He ordered a nurse to prepare an injection
of morphine and cocaine and give it to the king the nurse refused so the
doctor himself did it.

And the really odd part was, the rational for doing so was so that the
Kings death would be announced by the 'right' newspaper, the Times of
London rather than some other paper, the king was in a comma,
unconscious, and it was decided upon to do him in.

I had a relative that was dying of cancer in a Catholic hospital back in
the 1960's they would not give her enough morphine to stop the pain for
fear of making her an addict!

She was moved to another hospital not associated with any religion and
was prescribed not only enough pain killers to make her comfortable but
which, in increasing doses intentionally hastened her passing. she was
neither rich nor powerful, but her doctor was compassionate enough to
inform the relatives of the option of moving her out of the Catholic
hospital to one where his standing order for pain medication would be
carried out by the nurses around the clock. Iirc, she would have had to
agree to it and to have done so would have been considered by the church
suicide which they could not become involved in promoting. Good
Catholic that she was im told she accepted the alternative for
alleviating her pain with alacrity.

As i understand it the relative was told of the option and agreed to it,
(with alacrity) she had some sort of cancer through out her body and was
in constant and increasing agony which, towards the end the drugs only
dulled, did not eliminate the pain till the doctor gave her an extra
large dose and ... well ... her pain along with her life ceased.
--
Mr. Joseph Littleshoes Esq.

Domine, dirige nos.
Let the games begin!
http://fredeeky.typepad.com/fredeeky.../sf_anthem.mp3

Very OT passive do yourself in (caution)
 

cybercat wrote:

> "maxine in ri" > wrote
>> And then there's my Mom, who wants to know what's going to happen
> tomorrow
>
> See, this is me. I want to see how everything turns out. And outlive
> all the dickheads, too, just for fun.


The way yer "karma" is going lately you're going to come back as a de-clawed
feral cat, cyberpussie...


- sw

Very OT passive do yourself in (caution)
 

"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 20 Oct 2009 17:05:28 -0700, "Dimitri" >
> wrote:
>
>>I wonder how many old folks do nothing when faced with as medical issue as
>>a
>>way of passive suicide?
>
> Or they go active - in starvation mode. It's cruel to hook them up,
> let them die in peace.
>>
>>When I am tired of al this BS will I start smoking again?
>>
> Too slow. Think of something else.

You're thinking of cancer - stroke & heart attack are quicker.

After all is said and done Like is a terminal disease.
--
Dimitri

Penne Rigate Autunnale

http://kitchenguide.wordpress.com.

Very OT passive do yourself in (caution)
 

"maxine in ri" > wrote in message
...
On Oct 20, 8:05 pm, "Dimitri" > wrote:
> I wonder how many old folks do nothing when faced with as medical issue as
> a
> way of passive suicide?
>
> When I am tired of al this BS will I start smoking again?

Personally, when I'm ready to die, I want to try heroin. Where an
old, decrepit,sickly hag will find an honest pusher, I don't know.

maxine in ri

LOL


--
Dimitri

Penne Rigate Autunnale

http://kitchenguide.wordpress.com.

Very OT passive do yourself in (caution)
 

On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 13:06:01 -0700, "Mr. Joseph Littleshoes Esq."
> wrote:

<snip>
>
>I had a relative that was dying of cancer in a Catholic hospital back in
>the 1960's they would not give her enough morphine to stop the pain for
>fear of making her an addict!

I will never understand that way of thinking. It was probably more
like "why waste good drugs on the dying".
>
>She was moved to another hospital not associated with any religion and
>was prescribed not only enough pain killers to make her comfortable but
>which, in increasing doses intentionally hastened her passing. she was
>neither rich nor powerful, but her doctor was compassionate enough to
>inform the relatives of the option of moving her out of the Catholic
>hospital to one where his standing order for pain medication would be
>carried out by the nurses around the clock. Iirc, she would have had to
>agree to it and to have done so would have been considered by the church
>suicide which they could not become involved in promoting. Good
>Catholic that she was im told she accepted the alternative for
>alleviating her pain with alacrity.
>
>As i understand it the relative was told of the option and agreed to it,
>(with alacrity) she had some sort of cancer through out her body and was
>in constant and increasing agony which, towards the end the drugs only
>dulled, did not eliminate the pain till the doctor gave her an extra
>large dose and ... well ... her pain along with her life ceased.

That is highly rational and if I'm ever in a no win situation like
your relative, I hope my loved ones will let me go that way.

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

Very OT passive do yourself in (caution)
 

On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 13:38:12 -0700, "Dimitri" >
wrote:

>
>You're thinking of cancer - stroke & heart attack are quicker.

Pardon my ignorance.... smoking causes strokes and heart attacks?

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

Very OT passive do yourself in (caution)
 

"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 13:38:12 -0700, "Dimitri" >
> wrote:
>
>>
>>You're thinking of cancer - stroke & heart attack are quicker.
>
> Pardon my ignorance.... smoking causes strokes and heart attacks?

Yes.

If you have a stroke and continue smoking your chances of having another
stroke increase 6 fold.

In addition

http://www.americanheart.org/present...dentifier=4545

Cigarette smoking is the most important preventable cause of premature death
in the United States. It accounts for more than 440,000 of the more than 2.4
million annual deaths. Cigarette smokers have a higher risk of developing
several chronic disorders. These include fatty buildups in arteries, several
types of cancer and chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (lung problems).
Atherosclerosis (buildup of fatty substances in the arteries) is a chief
contributor to the high number of deaths from smoking. Many studies detail
the evidence that cigarette smoking is a major cause of coronary heart
disease, which leads to heart attack.


--
Dimitri

Penne Rigate Autunnale

http://kitchenguide.wordpress.com.

Very OT passive do yourself in (caution)
 

sf wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 13:38:12 -0700, "Dimitri" >
> wrote:
>
>
>>You're thinking of cancer - stroke & heart attack are quicker.
>
>
> Pardon my ignorance.... smoking causes strokes and heart attacks?
>

I can be a major factor in either.
--

Mr. Joseph Littleshoes Esq.

Domine, dirige nos.
Let the games begin!
http://fredeeky.typepad.com/fredeeky.../sf_anthem.mp3

Very OT passive do yourself in (caution)
 

On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 19:58:23 -0700, "Mr. Joseph Littleshoes Esq."
> wrote:

-->
-->
-->sf wrote:
-->> On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 13:38:12 -0700, "Dimitri" >
-->> wrote:
-->>
-->>
-->>>You're thinking of cancer - stroke & heart attack are quicker.
-->>
-->>
-->> Pardon my ignorance.... smoking causes strokes and heart attacks?
-->>
-->
-->I can be a major factor in either.


You really don't want a stroke, a heart attack is much easier to get over.

Very OT passive do yourself in (caution)
 

Wayne Boatwright wrote:
> On Wed 21 Oct 2009 08:10:59p, SCP told us...

>> You really don't want a stroke, a heart attack is much easier to get
> over.
>
> Unless the stroke leaves you bedridden, unable to speak or move.

I think you may have misread the comment you're replying to.

Serene