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Another lasagna with bechamel
Christine Dabney wrote:
> I was looking around the food blogs I read, and I found that Elise, of > Simply Recipes also has this type of lasagna in her files. She calls > it Lasagna Bolognese, which confirms what I know, that this is a > northern Italian variety. > > http://elise.com/recipes/archives/00..._bolognese.php > > She also layers it as I do.... > > Christine > Looks good, thanks. I am going out of town on Thursday, but when I get back I will give this recipe a try. Becca |
Another lasagna with bechamel
Becca > wrote in on Sep Tue 2009
am > http://elise.c Look closely at the pictures. I have never gotten a meat sauce as thick as it is shown in the picture on that site (where sauce is spread on noodles). It looks like the meat sauce is so thick that 2 more minutes of cooking would cause a total lack of moisture. It looks more like stuff that had dipped in a sauce lightly and then spread on top of the noodles. Seems too dry looking to be an actual sauce. Read about the white sauce...I have never heated both the milk and flour butter mix seperately before combining them. Why is that done? Also why isn't the white sauce seasoned in anyway? Afterwards I re-read the white sauce section and perhaps if your are going to go the onion clove route heating the milk would be proper (per Wikipedia link). But in the provided recipe neither onion nor clove nor any seasonning is specified in the white sauce ingredient list. I have never made a lasagna with both types of sauces and would be the last to complain about something I didn't make myself at least once. But the sauce making instructions on this site don't strike me as correct. My meat sauces are thicker than a thick chili, but never as thick as shown here and my usual white sauces are usually cheddar cheese sauces or mushroom-herb sauces, and only require heating one pot. My point here is that making a 2 sauce lasagna recipe might be better from another site. Also I'm a firm believer of spreading a little meat sauce around the pan prior to noodle use and not using oil to prevent noodle sticking. (Like my oil intake isn't enough already) -- Is that your nose, or are you eatting a banana? -Jimmy Durante |
Another lasagna with bechamel
"hahabogus" > wrote in message 50... > Becca > wrote in > on Sep Tue 2009 > am > >> http://elise.c > > Look closely at the pictures. I have never gotten a meat sauce as thick as > it is shown in the picture > on that site (where sauce is spread on noodles). It looks like the meat > sauce is so thick that 2 more > minutes of cooking would cause a total lack of moisture. It looks more > like stuff that had dipped in > a sauce lightly and then spread on top of the noodles. Seems too dry > looking to be an actual sauce. snip That photo was either taken of a cold lasagna that was sliced or more likely, was constructed of colder parts and pieces. I think it is impossible to get a square of hot lasagna on a plate without drippage, slippage or drool. The photo is too clean. Janet |
Another lasagna with bechamel
Christine Dabney > wrote in
on Sep Tue 2009 pm > On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 02:36:01 GMT, hahabogus > > wrote: > > >>I have never made a lasagna with both types of sauces and would be the >>last to complain about something I didn't make myself at least once. >>But the sauce making instructions on this site don't strike me as >>correct. My meat sauces are thicker than a thick chili, but never as >>thick as shown here and my usual white sauces are usually cheddar >>cheese sauces or mushroom-herb sauces, and only require heating one >>pot. >> >>My point here is that making a 2 sauce lasagna recipe might be better >>from another site. >> >>Also I'm a firm believer of spreading a little meat sauce around the >>pan prior to noodle use and not using oil to prevent noodle sticking. >>(Like my oil intake isn't enough already) > > A suggestion? > Try it before you condemn it. ;) > > Christine I'm not condemning a 2 sauce lasagna...only I'm not happy with that site's recipe. (See the part about trying a recipe from another site.) I think I'm allowed the curtesy of which recipes I'd prefer to make. And if, nay I say, when I make a 2 sauce lasagna I'd use another recipe than that one. I don't want to seem heavy handed here and that recipe might be perfectly ok , but it doesn't seem like it to me and I'd prefer a different one from a cookbook or website I've used and trusted. Before I'd try a new recipe for something I haven't tried before and haven't the confidence in the recipe shown to me. As the sauces section of the website's recipe doesn't ring true to me. It might be perfectly OK for you and your experience in the 2 sauce lasagna is way vaster than mine. But it isn't ok for me, just because the recipe seems wrong to me. And having confidence in the recipe is half the battle. It just might be like the 'putting mayo in chocolate cake syndrome'...at least let me be more confident in making chocolate cakes before insisting I try adding the mayo. -- Is that your nose, or are you eatting a banana? -Jimmy Durante |
Another lasagna with bechamel
On Tue, 15 Sep 2009 21:59:37 -0600, Christine Dabney wrote:
> On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 02:36:01 GMT, hahabogus > > wrote: > >>I have never made a lasagna with both types of sauces and would be the last to complain about >>something I didn't make myself at least once. But the sauce making instructions on this site don't >>strike me as correct. My meat sauces are thicker than a thick chili, but never as thick as shown here >>and my usual white sauces are usually cheddar cheese sauces or mushroom-herb sauces, and only >>require heating one pot. >> >>My point here is that making a 2 sauce lasagna recipe might be better from another site. >> >>Also I'm a firm believer of spreading a little meat sauce around the pan prior to noodle use and not >>using oil to prevent noodle sticking. (Like my oil intake isn't enough already) > > A suggestion? > Try it before you condemn it. ;) > > Christine that is not in accordance with god's great plan. your pal, blake |
Another lasagna with bechamel
Christine Dabney > wrote in
on Sep Tue 2009 10:59 pm > A suggestion? > Try it before you condemn it. ;) > > More my idea of the 2 mentioned sauces and recipes for them I'd be more comfortable following. http://www.realworldcooking.ca/2007/...ese-sauce.html http://www.ifood.tv/network/lasagna_..._sauce/recipes -- Is that your nose, or are you eatting a banana? -Jimmy Durante |
Another lasagna with bechamel
"hahabogus" ha scritto nel messaggio > > More my idea of the 2 mentioned sauces and recipes for them I'd be> more > comfortable following. > > http://www.realworldcooking.ca/2007/...ese-sauce.html > http://www.ifood.tv/network/lasagna_..._sauce/recipes Hmmm, this gives me no faith whatsoever in the foodtv site: " Bechamel Sauce 1 cup whole wheat flour (use pastry flour for a lighter sauce) 4 cups water 1/4 teaspoon sea salt 1/4 cup tamari soy sauce Heat ... salad, Natural Food, salad sauce recipe, tamari soy sauce recipe, whole food) " While the other one is just a plain tomato sauce with meat, this bechamel would pretty much wreck a lasagne. |
Another lasagna with bechamel
"Giusi" > wrote in message ... > > "hahabogus" ha scritto nel messaggio >> >> More my idea of the 2 mentioned sauces and recipes for them I'd be> more >> comfortable following. >> >> http://www.realworldcooking.ca/2007/...ese-sauce.html >> http://www.ifood.tv/network/lasagna_..._sauce/recipes > > Hmmm, this gives me no faith whatsoever in the foodtv site: > " Bechamel Sauce > 1 cup whole wheat flour (use pastry flour for a lighter sauce) 4 cups > water 1/4 teaspoon sea salt 1/4 cup tamari soy sauce Heat ... salad, > Natural Food, salad sauce recipe, tamari soy sauce recipe, whole food) " > > While the other one is just a plain tomato sauce with meat, this bechamel > would pretty much wreck a lasagne. What is your favourite recipe for lasagne, Guisi? |
Another lasagna with bechamel
"Giusi" > wrote in
on Sep Sat 2009 01:59 am > > "hahabogus" ha scritto nel messaggio >> >> More my idea of the 2 mentioned sauces and recipes for them I'd be> >> more comfortable following. >> >> http://www.realworldcooking.ca/2007/...ese-sauce.html >> http://www.ifood.tv/network/lasagna_..._sauce/recipes > > Hmmm, this gives me no faith whatsoever in the foodtv site: > " Bechamel Sauce > 1 cup whole wheat flour (use pastry flour for a lighter sauce) 4 cups > water 1/4 teaspoon sea salt 1/4 cup tamari soy sauce Heat ... salad, > Natural Food, salad sauce recipe, tamari soy sauce recipe, whole food) > " > > While the other one is just a plain tomato sauce with meat, this > bechamel would pretty much wreck a lasagne. > > What? By definition a Bechamel sauce uses white flour, butter and milk...the seasoning used in it is somewhat optional. But using water and soy sauce and no use of butter is not a bechamel sauce. Another name for bechamel sauce is white sauce. Some variants of white sauce use the onion clove method of seasoning. You stick a clove in a peeled whole onion and simmer that in the milk . Bechamel is a mother sauce; which means many other more complex sauces can be made by adding to it. A example of this is a cheese sauce...by just adding grated cheese to the bechamel. -- Is that your nose, or are you eatting a banana? -Jimmy Durante |
Another lasagna with bechamel
"hahabogus" > ha scritto nel messaggio 50... > "Giusi" > wrote in > >> >> "hahabogus" ha scritto nel messaggio >>> >>> More my idea of the 2 mentioned sauces and recipes for them I'd be>>>> >>> more comfortable following. >>> >>> http://www.realworldcooking.ca/2007/...ese-sauce.html >>> http://www.ifood.tv/network/lasagna_..._sauce/recipes >> >> Hmmm, this gives me no faith whatsoever in the foodtv site: >> " Bechamel Sauce >> 1 cup whole wheat flour (use pastry flour for a lighter sauce) 4 cups >> water 1/4 teaspoon sea salt 1/4 cup tamari soy sauce Heat ... salad, >> Natural Food, salad sauce recipe, tamari soy sauce recipe, whole food) >> " >> >> While the other one is just a plain tomato sauce with meat, this >> bechamel would pretty much wreck a lasagne. >> >> > > What? > > By definition a Bechamel sauce uses white flour, butter and milk...the> > seasoning used in it is somewhat optional. But using water and soy sauce> > and no use of butter is not a bechamel sauce. Another name for > bechamel sauce is white sauce. Some variants of white sauce use the> onion > clove method of seasoning. You stick a clove in a peeled whole> onion and > simmer that in the milk . > > Bechamel is a mother sauce; which means many other >more complex sauces > can be made by adding to it. A >example of this is a cheese sauce...by > just adding grated cheese to the bechamel. That recipe ogre came off the page YOU linked to! I know what a bechamel or besciamella is. I went to culinary school. I make the mother sauces. I can even make father sauces if they invent them. |
Another lasagna with bechamel
"Giusi" > wrote in
on Sep Sat 2009 12:07 pm > > "hahabogus" > ha scritto nel messaggio > 50... >> "Giusi" > wrote in >> >>> >>> "hahabogus" ha scritto nel messaggio >>>> >>>> More my idea of the 2 mentioned sauces and recipes for them I'd >>>> be>>>> more comfortable following. >>>> >>>> http://www.realworldcooking.ca/2007/...ese-sauce.html >>>> http://www.ifood.tv/network/lasagna_..._sauce/recipes >>> >>> Hmmm, this gives me no faith whatsoever in the foodtv site: >>> " Bechamel Sauce >>> 1 cup whole wheat flour (use pastry flour for a lighter sauce) 4 >>> cups water 1/4 teaspoon sea salt 1/4 cup tamari soy sauce Heat ... >>> salad, Natural Food, salad sauce recipe, tamari soy sauce recipe, >>> whole food) " >>> >>> While the other one is just a plain tomato sauce with meat, this >>> bechamel would pretty much wreck a lasagne. >>> >>> >> >> What? >> >> By definition a Bechamel sauce uses white flour, butter and >> milk...the> seasoning used in it is somewhat optional. But using >> water and soy sauce> and no use of butter is not a bechamel sauce. >> Another name for bechamel sauce is white sauce. Some variants of >> white sauce use the> onion clove method of seasoning. You stick a >> clove in a peeled whole> onion and simmer that in the milk . >> >> Bechamel is a mother sauce; which means many other >more complex >> sauces can be made by adding to it. A >example of this is a cheese >> sauce...by just adding grated cheese to the bechamel. > > That recipe ogre came off the page YOU linked to! > > I know what a bechamel or besciamella is. I went to culinary school. > I make the mother sauces. I can even make father sauces if they > invent them. > > > the page I linked to... starts a mp3 on making a bechamel sauce -- Is that your nose, or are you eatting a banana? -Jimmy Durante |
Another lasagna with bechamel
"hahabogus" > the page I linked to... starts a mp3 on making a bechamel sauce It didn't here! I got a list of foodtv bechamel sauce articles. That one stood out. |
Hot of Cold? (was Another lasagna with bechamel)
On 2009-09-19, Giusi > wrote:
> > "hahabogus" > >> the page I linked to... starts a mp3 on making a bechamel sauce > > It didn't here! I got a list of foodtv bechamel sauce articles. That one > stood out. I didn't see anything about lasagne, either, other than the title. Also, I was astonished when "chef john"(?) said ALWAYS add cold liquid. Whoa! I attended a cooking school for nine mos and when I learned roux based sauces, was taught ALWAYS add warm liquid, a rule which has serve me well, as I never have lumps in my sauces. Which is it? Hot or cold? I also was bit surprised when he said once the sauce has simmered, that's as thick as it will get. Say what? Any flour roux based sauce will thicken as it cools. In fact, it will set up like a gelatin if cooled enough. You think not? I got a chicken gravy I made yesterday in the fridge. I can cut it with a knife! I wonder about this chef john guy. nb |
Hot of Cold? (was Another lasagna with bechamel)
notbob wrote:
> I was astonished when "chef john"(?) said ALWAYS add cold > liquid. Whoa! I attended a cooking school for nine mos and when I > learned roux based sauces, was taught ALWAYS add warm liquid, a rule > which has serve me well, as I never have lumps in my sauces. > > Which is it? Hot or cold? I've heard the same thing (add cold) from Emeril Lagasse, Hubert Keller, and Wolfgang Puck. I don't know the reason for it, but I add cold liquid and don't have a problem with lumps either. Maybe it doesn't matter, and it's just superstition. > I also was bit surprised when he said once the sauce has simmered, > that's as thick as it will get. Say what? Any flour roux based sauce > will thicken as it cools. In fact, it will set up like a gelatin if > cooled enough. You think not? I got a chicken gravy I made yesterday > in the fridge. I can cut it with a knife! > > I wonder about this chef john guy. I'm pretty sure he meant that if you continue to heat it, the sauce won't get any thicker, as opposed to removing the sauce from the heat before a simmer has been reached and the flour has released its starch. He just didn't get his point across as well as he could have. Ever tried chaud-froid coatings? They're old-fashioned, but they can be spectacular. Bob |
Another lasagna with bechamel
In article >,
"Giusi" > wrote: > "hahabogus" ha scritto nel messaggio > > > > More my idea of the 2 mentioned sauces and recipes for them I'd be> more > > comfortable following. > > > > http://www.realworldcooking.ca/2007/...ese-sauce.html > > http://www.ifood.tv/network/lasagna_..._sauce/recipes > > Hmmm, this gives me no faith whatsoever in the foodtv site: > " Bechamel Sauce > 1 cup whole wheat flour (use pastry flour for a lighter sauce) 4 cups water > 1/4 teaspoon sea salt 1/4 cup tamari soy sauce Heat ... salad, Natural Food, > salad sauce recipe, tamari soy sauce recipe, whole food) " > > While the other one is just a plain tomato sauce with meat, this bechamel > would pretty much wreck a lasagne. It's not foodtv, it's ifood.tv which seems like a completely different site, not that foodtv is all that wonderful. And I didn't see the recipe you listed above (but I didn't look very hard). I watched the video that came up, and it looked like a pretty classic bechamel. Make a roux with 1/2 cup butter and 1/2 cup white flour. Add salt and cayenne pepper. Grate a little nutmeg in. Add the milk gradually so there are no lumps. Add a few little sprigs worth of grated thyme. Amounts of all of these are given in the video. -- Dan Abel Petaluma, California USA |
Another lasagna with bechamel
Dan wrote:
>>> More my idea of the 2 mentioned sauces and recipes for them I'd be> more >>> comfortable following. >>> >>> http://www.realworldcooking.ca/2007/...ese-sauce.html >>> http://www.ifood.tv/network/lasagna_..._sauce/recipes >> >> Hmmm, this gives me no faith whatsoever in the foodtv site: >> " Bechamel Sauce >> 1 cup whole wheat flour (use pastry flour for a lighter sauce) >> 4 cups water >> 1/4 teaspoon sea salt 1/4 cup tamari soy sauce Heat ... salad, Natural >> Food, salad sauce recipe, tamari soy sauce recipe, whole food) " >> >> While the other one is just a plain tomato sauce with meat, this >> bechamel would pretty much wreck a lasagne. > > It's not foodtv, it's ifood.tv which seems like a completely different > site, not that foodtv is all that wonderful. And I didn't see the > recipe you listed above (but I didn't look very hard). I watched the > video that came up, and it looked like a pretty classic bechamel. Make > a roux with 1/2 cup butter and 1/2 cup white flour. Add salt and > cayenne pepper. Grate a little nutmeg in. Add the milk gradually so > there are no lumps. Add a few little sprigs worth of grated thyme. > Amounts of all of these are given in the video. Did anybody here learn how to make béchamel by watching the video? Or did people already know how to make béchamel, and merely watched the video for entertainment? Bob, who didn't watch the video since he already knows how to make béchamel |
Another lasagna with bechamel
On Sat, 19 Sep 2009 21:29:18 -0700, Dan Abel > wrote:
>Grate a little nutmeg in. My stomach churns every time I see that ingredient in white sauce or quiche. -- I love cooking with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food. |
Another lasagna with bechamel
In article >,
"Bob Terwilliger" > wrote: > >>> More my idea of the 2 mentioned sauces and recipes for them I'd be> more > >>> comfortable following. [snip] > >>> http://www.ifood.tv/network/lasagna_..._sauce/recipes > >> > >> Hmmm, this gives me no faith whatsoever in the foodtv site: > >> " Bechamel Sauce > >> 1 cup whole wheat flour (use pastry flour for a lighter sauce) > >> 4 cups water > >> 1/4 teaspoon sea salt 1/4 cup tamari soy sauce Heat ... salad, Natural > >> Food, salad sauce recipe, tamari soy sauce recipe, whole food) " > >> > >> While the other one is just a plain tomato sauce with meat, this > >> bechamel would pretty much wreck a lasagne. > > > > It's not foodtv, it's ifood.tv which seems like a completely different > > site, not that foodtv is all that wonderful. And I didn't see the > > recipe you listed above (but I didn't look very hard). I watched the > > video that came up, and it looked like a pretty classic bechamel. Make > > a roux with 1/2 cup butter and 1/2 cup white flour. Add salt and > > cayenne pepper. Grate a little nutmeg in. Add the milk gradually so > > there are no lumps. Add a few little sprigs worth of grated thyme. > > Amounts of all of these are given in the video. > > > Did anybody here learn how to make béchamel by watching the video? Or did > people already know how to make béchamel, and merely watched the video for > entertainment? > > Bob, who didn't watch the video since he already knows how to make béchamel I had never known how to make bechamel, or so I thought, before I read this thread. However, I always add freshly grated nutmeg and cayenne to my white sauce when I make turkey (or chicken) ala King, so actually I did. I watched the video because I couldn't believe they were going to make bechamel out of water, soy sauce and whole wheat flour. And they didn't. I would advise just taking my word for it, since you will learn nothing from watching the video if you already know how to make bechamel. -- Dan Abel Petaluma, California USA |
Another lasagna with bechamel
In article >,
sf > wrote: > On Sat, 19 Sep 2009 21:29:18 -0700, Dan Abel > wrote: > > >Grate a little nutmeg in. > > My stomach churns every time I see that ingredient in white sauce or > quiche. If you really don't like it, leave it out and call it "white sauce". I put so little nutmet in that most people can't tell it is there. It just adds a little complexity to the sauce. -- Dan Abel Petaluma, California USA |
Another lasagna with bechamel
Giusi wrote:
> Hmmm, this gives me no faith whatsoever in the foodtv site: > " Bechamel Sauce > 1 cup whole wheat flour (use pastry flour for a lighter sauce) 4 cups water > 1/4 teaspoon sea salt 1/4 cup tamari soy sauce Heat ... salad, Natural Food, > salad sauce recipe, tamari soy sauce recipe, whole food) " Blech! |
Another lasagna with bechamel
Dan Abel wrote:
> In article >, > sf > wrote: > >> On Sat, 19 Sep 2009 21:29:18 -0700, Dan Abel > wrote: >> >>> Grate a little nutmeg in. >> My stomach churns every time I see that ingredient in white sauce or >> quiche. > > If you really don't like it, leave it out and call it "white sauce". I > put so little nutmet in that most people can't tell it is there. It > just adds a little complexity to the sauce. > And if it is so noticeable, you've used too much. |
Hot of Cold? (was Another lasagna with bechamel)
notbob wrote:
> Also, I was astonished when "chef john"(?) said ALWAYS add cold > liquid. Whoa! I attended a cooking school for nine mos and when I > learned roux based sauces, was taught ALWAYS add warm liquid, a rule > which has serve me well, as I never have lumps in my sauces. > > Which is it? Hot or cold? > > I also was bit surprised when he said once the sauce has simmered, > that's as thick as it will get. Say what? Any flour roux based sauce > will thicken as it cools. In fact, it will set up like a gelatin if > cooled enough. You think not? I got a chicken gravy I made yesterday > in the fridge. I can cut it with a knife! > > I wonder about this chef john guy. > > nb > Perhaps Chef John is confusing the effects of flour versus cornstarch when making a sauce? |
Another lasagna with bechamel
On Mon, 21 Sep 2009 00:35:53 -0400, Goomba >
wrote: >Dan Abel wrote: >> In article >, >> sf > wrote: >> >>> On Sat, 19 Sep 2009 21:29:18 -0700, Dan Abel > wrote: >>> >>>> Grate a little nutmeg in. >>> My stomach churns every time I see that ingredient in white sauce or >>> quiche. >> >> If you really don't like it, leave it out and call it "white sauce". I >> put so little nutmet in that most people can't tell it is there. It >> just adds a little complexity to the sauce. >> >And if it is so noticeable, you've used too much. True, nutmeg is one of those potent spices that's essential to many dishes... but where less is more... like mace, allspice, cloves, cardamom, aniseseed. Nutmeg is one of the most commonly consumed spices on the planet, it's essential to bologna and tubesteak. |
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