On Aug 4, 12:20*pm, Becca > wrote:
> Terry Pulliam Burd wrote:
> > I can't imagine that it isn't more trouble than it's worth to lock up
> > the recycling bins, esp. here in SoCal. All the recycling bins I've
> > seen at the curb aren't segregated by type (paper, cans, glass, etc.),
> > but just put into one big heap. How does that work, anyway? Do the
> > bins actually get sorted? How? Always wondered about that...
>
> They call that "single-stream" recycling. *At the recycling plant, the
> material goes through giant tumblers that include magnets and fans. *
> This is much easier for homeowners than using multiple bins.
>
> Becca

Here in my city, we use multiple bins/containers/or stacks -
newspapers in the bottom of a rectangular city-provided recycle
container; then, a brown paper bag holding plastic (rinsed, not
squashed, has to have the little diamond icon on the bottom);
flattened cardboard (like cereal boxes) in another brown paper bag
inside the rectangular container. Big cardboard (like cartons) has to
be in maximum 4' lengths/widths, and flattened into a pile; yard waste
has to be in a container with a prepaid seasonal sticker ($20 per
season) or if it's branches, tied into 4' long bundles, or if not a
seasonal sticker, it has to be in $1/bag special yard waste bags.
Our curbside recycling so far doesn't take glass or glossy/slick
magazines...we have to take those to the recycling center, already
sorted.

We may not be the future, but most of our waste does get sorted before
pickup, and people are happy to do so.

N.

On Aug 3, 12:24*am, Dan Abel > wrote:
> In article >,
> *Terry Pulliam Burd > wrote:
>
> > The LA City council has been discussing putting locks on homeowners'
> > recycling bins b/c of this. Personally, I think it's a petty, cruel
> > move for the more affluent to lock away something that's being thrown
> > out.
>
> It's stealing. *Look for higher garbage rates if it doesn't stop.
>
> > Counterintuitive, IMHO, but the City council insists that it will
> > keep the "undesirables" out of residential neighborhoods.
>
> I have had the homeless steal my newspapers. *I don't think they were
> going to read them, but rather, sleep on them. *I have had people steal
> aluminum cans. *I have tried to tell my son to bring in the beer cans
> when he was done. *I have found the local old lady in my back yard,
> harvesting cans.
>
> > They also
> > attempted to keep the taco trucks from parking for more than one hour
> > in one place - claimed it hurt local restaurants. Like a taco truck is
> > going to be competition for a restaurant?
>
> Of course they are. *I like them, but it is something to think about.
>
> > Likewise, the Santa Ana city
> > council has been discussing banning the ice cream handcarts. What a
> > crock.
>
> Something else to think about. *They provide a valuable service, but
> they are still competition.
>
> --
> Dan Abel
> Petaluma, California USA
>

Here, if there is waste in a can, at the curb, ready for pickup,
anyone can have what they want -- it's not stealing, once it's
discarded. Lots of "curb treasure" gets recycled this way in this
college town. I know if I don't want an old but o.k. coffee table or
an old dinette set, or a baby crib, I can put it on the curb the day
before scheduled garbage pickup and someone will take it and use it.
That's much better than adding to what goes to the dump, or me having
to pay the city to pick it up because it doesn't fit in their waste
cans.

N.

On Aug 3, 9:45*am, sf > wrote:
> On Sun, 02 Aug 2009 22:24:47 -0700, Dan Abel > wrote:
> >> They also
> >> attempted to keep the taco trucks from parking for more than one hour
> >> in one place - claimed it hurt local restaurants. Like a taco truck is
> >> going to be competition for a restaurant?
>
> >Of course they are. *I like them, but it is something to think about.
>
> I didn't know all that, I just knew some of the smarter truck owners
> have resorted to Twitter to alert regulars of their whereabouts.
>
>
>
> >> Likewise, the Santa Ana city
> >> council has been discussing banning the ice cream handcarts. What a
> >> crock.
>
> >Something else to think about. *They provide a valuable service, but
> >they are still competition.
>
> Next to go will be the old fashioned ice cream truck. *Shame.
>
> --
> I love cooking with wine.
> Sometimes I even put it in the food.

Actually, the "old-fashioned" ice cream truck can leave anytime and
the sooner the better -- they aren't "old-fashioned" any more - they
drive around playing electronic music at decibels to rival the loudest
heavy metal rock band (Pop Goes the Weasel is a favorite) and it is
the most annoying thing on the planet. I can shut all my doors and
windows and still hear them 3 blocks away. If they went back to the
little handlbar-type bells they used to use, no problem.

N.

On Aug 3, 3:45*am, Andy > wrote:
> Terry Pulliam Burd said...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Fri, 31 Jul 2009 07:53:42 -0500, Andy > fired up random
> > neurons and synapses to opine:
>
> >>That paints a terrible mental picture. We used to get poor people going
> >>through curbside trash looking for aluminum cans and they would toss
> >>anything in their way onto the curb. We called them human roaches.
>
> > The LA City council has been discussing putting locks on homeowners'
> > recycling bins b/c of this. Personally, I think it's a petty, cruel
> > move for the more affluent to lock away something that's being thrown
> > out. Counterintuitive, IMHO, but the City council insists that it will
> > keep the "undesirables" out of residential neighborhoods. They also
> > attempted to keep the taco trucks from parking for more than one hour
> > in one place - claimed it hurt local restaurants. Like a taco truck is
> > going to be competition for a restaurant? Likewise, the Santa Ana city
> > council has been discussing banning the ice cream handcarts. What a
> > crock. What's next? Ban the little old ladies in SA from using their
> > iconic umbrellas?
>
> > Terry "Squeaks" Pulliam Burd
>
> Around center city Philly, there are food carts all over, serving all kinds
> of cuisine. Some of the best, actually.
>
> At the courthouse in town, a family holds permits to two food carts, one at
> the front and one at the side entrance. They do a landslide business for
> the legals who can't stray too far from the courtrooms. The carts are the
> ones they stand inside with grills, etc., cooking good food at fair prices.
>
> There are plenty of restaurants blocks or so away but with the population
> of jurors, etc., they are all easily overrun at lunch. Jurors get a clip on
> lapel pin to get quicker service and 10% off in the interest of time and as
> a courtesy for doing their civic duty. I'm very proud of that, having
> served jury duty several times.
>
> On recycling... In L.A., at the time, recycling wasn't mandatory. We didn't
> have separate recycling bins like we do today. I'm not positive but except
> for the return-deposit bottles, the public is not allowed to privately turn
> in recyclable materials. In any case, nobody's ever swiped our curb
> recycling. Maybe down on the flatlands they do. I dunno.
>
> Andy- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -


We see various homeless people and retirees regularly salvaging cans
from recycle containers so they can get the 5 cents each at the
supermarket recycle center. No problem; nobody resents it; as long as
they get recycled, they're up for grabs. (Iowa has a can/bottle
deposit law that applies to beer and soft drinks, but not fruit juice
or water - go figure.)

Anyone here can take anything they want to a recycle center without
any problem. As a matter of fact, that's the only way we can recycle
glossy magazines and glass at the present time.

N.

Nancy2 said...

> On Aug 3, 3:45*am, Andy > wrote:
>> Terry Pulliam Burd said...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Fri, 31 Jul 2009 07:53:42 -0500, Andy > fired up random
>> > neurons and synapses to opine:
>>
>> >>That paints a terrible mental picture. We used to get poor people
going
>> >>through curbside trash looking for aluminum cans and they would toss
>> >>anything in their way onto the curb. We called them human roaches.
>>
>> > The LA City council has been discussing putting locks on homeowners'
>> > recycling bins b/c of this. Personally, I think it's a petty, cruel
>> > move for the more affluent to lock away something that's being thrown
>> > out. Counterintuitive, IMHO, but the City council insists that it will
>> > keep the "undesirables" out of residential neighborhoods. They also
>> > attempted to keep the taco trucks from parking for more than one hour
>> > in one place - claimed it hurt local restaurants. Like a taco truck is
>> > going to be competition for a restaurant? Likewise, the Santa Ana city
>> > council has been discussing banning the ice cream handcarts. What a
>> > crock. What's next? Ban the little old ladies in SA from using their
>> > iconic umbrellas?
>>
>> > Terry "Squeaks" Pulliam Burd
>>
>> Around center city Philly, there are food carts all over, serving all
kin
> ds
>> of cuisine. Some of the best, actually.
>>
>> At the courthouse in town, a family holds permits to two food carts, one
> at
>> the front and one at the side entrance. They do a landslide business for
>> the legals who can't stray too far from the courtrooms. The carts are
the
>> ones they stand inside with grills, etc., cooking good food at fair
price
> s.
>>
>> There are plenty of restaurants blocks or so away but with the
population
>> of jurors, etc., they are all easily overrun at lunch. Jurors get a clip
> on
>> lapel pin to get quicker service and 10% off in the interest of time and
> as
>> a courtesy for doing their civic duty. I'm very proud of that, having
>> served jury duty several times.
>>
>> On recycling... In L.A., at the time, recycling wasn't mandatory. We
didn
> 't
>> have separate recycling bins like we do today. I'm not positive but
excep
> t
>> for the return-deposit bottles, the public is not allowed to privately
tu
> rn
>> in recyclable materials. In any case, nobody's ever swiped our curb
>> recycling. Maybe down on the flatlands they do. I dunno.
>>
>> Andy- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>
> We see various homeless people and retirees regularly salvaging cans
> from recycle containers so they can get the 5 cents each at the
> supermarket recycle center. No problem; nobody resents it; as long as
> they get recycled, they're up for grabs. (Iowa has a can/bottle
> deposit law that applies to beer and soft drinks, but not fruit juice
> or water - go figure.)
>
> Anyone here can take anything they want to a recycle center without
> any problem. As a matter of fact, that's the only way we can recycle
> glossy magazines and glass at the present time.
>
> N.


My long ago roommate in San Diego had the local kids hunting down aluminum
cans. He paid them a few pennies per can. Then he'd proceed to drop in lead
nails into each can, crush them and turn them in to a recycling center.
Wrong as it was, it kept us in beer. Very enterprising of him. Laying in
the sand. No worries.

Andy

On Tue, 4 Aug 2009 14:59:58 -0400, "cybercat" >
wrote:

>
>"sf" > wrote in message
.. .
>> On Tue, 04 Aug 2009 12:27:21 -0500, Andy > wrote:
>>
>>>Becca said...
>>>
>>>>
>>>> They call that "single-stream" recycling. At the recycling plant, the
>>>> material goes through giant tumblers that include magnets and fans.
>>>> This is much easier for homeowners than using multiple bins.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Right! Sorting is a thing of the past.
>>>
>> Would somebody please call San Francisco and tell them to get with the
>> times? We have 4 frikkin cans to deal with.
>>
>I thought you people loved fussing with that kind of thing.
>
Not me, but I do what I have to do to keep it out of the landfills.
;/

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On Tue, 4 Aug 2009 12:52:46 -0700 (PDT), Nancy2
> wrote:

>Here, if there is waste in a can, at the curb, ready for pickup,
>anyone can have what they want -- it's not stealing, once it's
>discarded.

As far as the recyclables (paper, cans, bottles) in my City, it *is*
stealing because recycling helps keep the garbage bill down.
Sometimes our rate is lowered for a month because they got enough
recycling the month before to give us that break.

AFAIC, since the city expects us to maintain the sidewalk it's *my*
property. The public has an easement onto my property (the sidewalk),
but I have not given them permission to steal. My contract with the
garbage company requires me to put my garbage on the sidewalk. It
wouldn't be there if I wasn't required to do it. Just because it's
there does not mean it's ok to steal. I have shooed off people
rummaging through my recycling in the past and I will do it whenever I
catch them doing it in the future.

>Lots of "curb treasure" gets recycled this way in this
>college town. I know if I don't want an old but o.k. coffee table or
>an old dinette set, or a baby crib, I can put it on the curb the day
>before scheduled garbage pickup and someone will take it and use it.

That's different. I call it sidewalk shopping. We don't have much of
that here, but I the word is that NCY does it a lot.


--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

sf wrote:
>
> On Tue, 4 Aug 2009 12:52:46 -0700 (PDT), Nancy2
> > wrote:
>
> >Here, if there is waste in a can, at the curb, ready for pickup,
> >anyone can have what they want -- it's not stealing, once it's
> >discarded.
>
> As far as the recyclables (paper, cans, bottles) in my City, it *is*
> stealing because recycling helps keep the garbage bill down.
> Sometimes our rate is lowered for a month because they got enough
> recycling the month before to give us that break.

That's what was claimed by the recyclers in Berkeley
when Eldridge Cleaver was arrested for "stealing" cans
left out for recycling, but a judge found him innocent.

On Tue, 04 Aug 2009 15:19:09 -0700, Mark Thorson >
wrote:

>sf wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, 4 Aug 2009 12:52:46 -0700 (PDT), Nancy2
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >Here, if there is waste in a can, at the curb, ready for pickup,
>> >anyone can have what they want -- it's not stealing, once it's
>> >discarded.
>>
>> As far as the recyclables (paper, cans, bottles) in my City, it *is*
>> stealing because recycling helps keep the garbage bill down.
>> Sometimes our rate is lowered for a month because they got enough
>> recycling the month before to give us that break.
>
>That's what was claimed by the recyclers in Berkeley
>when Eldridge Cleaver was arrested for "stealing" cans
>left out for recycling, but a judge found him innocent.

If they want to pay me $20 a month, they can rummage. Otherwise leave
my garbage alone.

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On Mon, 3 Aug 2009 22:52:24 -0400, "Ed Pawlowski" > fired
up random neurons and synapses to opine:

>Our town went to that about a year ago. The first sort is with magnets to
>get the steel out, then a series of light versus heavy sorting and some h
>and picking.

Well, thanks for that info. I always wondered how that worked, but my
"wondering" usually happened when I was rolling down the street
eyeballin' the recycling bins and not sitting in front of my computer.

Terry "Squeaks" Pulliam Burd

--

"If the soup had been as hot as the claret, if the claret had been as
old as the bird, and if the bird's breasts had been as full as the
waitress's, it would have been a very good dinner."

- Duncan Hines

To reply, replace "meatloaf" with "cox"

On Mon, 3 Aug 2009 22:23:08 -0400, "Ed Pawlowski" >
wrote:

>
>"George Leppla" > wrote in message
>>
>> I agree. In the cause of limiting litter, I'd like to see a 5 cent tax on
>> every Styrofoam cup (cold and hot)... especially those huge
>> "bucket-o-soda" monstrosities. Use the revenue to fund more recycling
>> research.
>>
>> George L
>
>The 5¢ tax would be a government money grab.

Chicago did that tax with bottled water some time back. They didn't
make what they thought and did nothing for the environment. Illinois
has no deposits on anything. Pretty sad. I save most of my cans for
someone who takes them to his church for the scout troop. It's not
much but at least I'm doing something. Chicago and it's burbs are WAY
behind on recycling.

Lou

"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 04 Aug 2009 15:19:09 -0700, Mark Thorson >
> wrote:
>
>>sf wrote:
>>>
>>> On Tue, 4 Aug 2009 12:52:46 -0700 (PDT), Nancy2
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>> >Here, if there is waste in a can, at the curb, ready for pickup,
>>> >anyone can have what they want -- it's not stealing, once it's
>>> >discarded.
>>>
>>> As far as the recyclables (paper, cans, bottles) in my City, it *is*
>>> stealing because recycling helps keep the garbage bill down.
>>> Sometimes our rate is lowered for a month because they got enough
>>> recycling the month before to give us that break.
>>
>>That's what was claimed by the recyclers in Berkeley
>>when Eldridge Cleaver was arrested for "stealing" cans
>>left out for recycling, but a judge found him innocent.
>
> If they want to pay me $20 a month, they can rummage. Otherwise leave
> my garbage alone.
>
I don't understand this. Honestly.

On Wed, 5 Aug 2009 00:48:47 -0400, "cybercat" >
wrote:

>
>"sf" > wrote in message
.. .
>> On Tue, 04 Aug 2009 15:19:09 -0700, Mark Thorson >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>sf wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, 4 Aug 2009 12:52:46 -0700 (PDT), Nancy2
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >Here, if there is waste in a can, at the curb, ready for pickup,
>>>> >anyone can have what they want -- it's not stealing, once it's
>>>> >discarded.
>>>>
>>>> As far as the recyclables (paper, cans, bottles) in my City, it *is*
>>>> stealing because recycling helps keep the garbage bill down.
>>>> Sometimes our rate is lowered for a month because they got enough
>>>> recycling the month before to give us that break.
>>>
>>>That's what was claimed by the recyclers in Berkeley
>>>when Eldridge Cleaver was arrested for "stealing" cans
>>>left out for recycling, but a judge found him innocent.
>>
>> If they want to pay me $20 a month, they can rummage. Otherwise leave
>> my garbage alone.
>>
>I don't understand this. Honestly.
>
Eldridge somehow got off. He probably wouldn't today.

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

"Lou Decruss" > wrote in message
>
> Chicago did that tax with bottled water some time back. They didn't
> make what they thought and did nothing for the environment. Illinois
> has no deposits on anything. Pretty sad.


What is sad is the fact that people are just not interested in recycling.
It is not hard to do and the deposit should have nothing to do with it.
Amazing how many people just toss the bottles anyway, even with a deposit.

In article >,
"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote:

> "Lou Decruss" > wrote in message
> >
> > Chicago did that tax with bottled water some time back. They didn't
> > make what they thought and did nothing for the environment. Illinois
> > has no deposits on anything. Pretty sad.
>
>
> What is sad is the fact that people are just not interested in recycling.
> It is not hard to do and the deposit should have nothing to do with it.
> Amazing how many people just toss the bottles anyway, even with a deposit.

Hey, it makes money for the homeless. ;-)
--
Peace! Om

"Human nature seems to be to control other people until they put their foot down."
--Steve Rothstein


Subscribe:

"George Leppla" wrote:
>
> I agree. In the cause of limiting litter, I'd like to see a 5 cent tax on
> every Styrofoam cup.

How would an added tax curtail littering? That's just a price increase...
there'd be no incentive other than to litter more... because you were forced
to pay more, therefore let the gubermint stupidity create litter picker jobs
paid for with more tax dollars. When there is a deposit there is an
incentive to return the item.

That's one of the things that's broken with health insurance.... other
insurances (ie. auto, homeowners, etc.) give discounts for not overburdoning
the system. Today's healthcare insurance gives no incentive to curtail
frivolous use of healthcare services and in fact encourages many to abuse
the system with totally unnecessary demands... those clogging the ERs with
hangnails are stealing healthcare from those with legitimate health issues.
There needs to be a reward for not making claims and a hypochondriac penalty
in higher premiums same as for drivers with more violations and accidents..
It's like how many large companys give sick leave but encourage employees
not to overuse it by buying back unused sick days two for one.

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote:
> "Lou Decruss" wrote:
>>
>> Chicago did that tax with bottled water some time back. They didn't
>> make what they thought and did nothing for the environment. Illinois
>> has no deposits on anything. Pretty sad.
>
>
> What is sad is the fact that people are just not interested in recycling.
> It is not hard to do and the deposit should have nothing to do with it.
> Amazing how many people just toss the bottles anyway, even with a deposit.
>
Very few toss deposit containers compared with when there is no deposit...
and there are many people who will bend down for those discarded nickles,
myself included, I pick up some by the road in front of my property, but not
many... and I always check carefully before I mow... most of the litter I
find has no deposit, mostly fast food packaging.... fast food joints should
be heavily taxed (100%) for the waste of resources and destruction to the
environment their products cause... and who cares if no one buys that crap
at twice the price, all they sell is garbage, pig slop is more nutritious
and healthful.... it's all a glitzy mirage of neon and packaging, it's NOT
food, it's filler for the obeasties. When I was a kid I collected deposit
bottles, all kids did; 2¢ for small bottles and 5¢ for large bottles, 3¢ for
milk bottles... back then bottles were reusable, many times... caps were
steel and cork... every kid collected bottle caps for decorating home made
carts and scooters and to use as game pieces, bottle caps had intrinsic
value, very few were found flattened on roadways or embedded in the
macadam... places that sold bottled beverages had openers with a container
below to catch the caps, very few caps became litter. And most major
beverage companys delivered to the home and would pick up the empties,
resulting in even fewer discards. When I delivered groceries tips were
often the empty deposit bottles. In those days there was zero littering of
bottles... of course back then there were no metal cans or plastic (and no
plastic credit cards either, hardly anyone was in debt). Then in one fell
swoop NY did away with deposit containers and the streets instantly became
dangerously filthy with broken glass, metal, and plastic containers... had
to wear shoes at the beach lest you slice your feet to ribbons... ambulances
streaking across the boardwalks to rescue seriously cut beach goers was
common (life guards rescued far more with bottle gashes than troubled
swimmers). As soon as the deposit law was put into effect container
littering became very minimal. I wish they would put a deposit on bottled
water, booze bottles, and wine coolers, those are the containers that I see
most often tossed on the roadside (plenty of alcoholic drivers choose pints
and half pints, much easier to conceal), and no one goes about retrieving
them because without a deposit there is no incentive... and only imbeciles
buy bottled water... in the US it's less pure than what comes from the tap,
and damn, it costs more than gasoline. And I wish they would design a
different closure than those screw on caps for plastic bottles like they did
with aluminum pulltabs, I see those caps littered all over because they
typically don't get included when returning deposit bottles to those
machines. There are lots of plastic caps on non deposit containers too,
juice and milk containers are biggies.... and the juice container has that
silly plastic inner pull tab, and milk containers that stupid plastic
strip.... it would be pretty simple to design a closure that incorporates a
retaining link I mostly object to all those plastic contraptions because
they present a deadly risk to wildlife... and here we are concerned about
choking hazards with children's toys yet there are all those small plastic
caps, strips, and and so-called "safety" seals.

"brooklyn1" > wrote in message
news
> "George Leppla" wrote:
>>
>> I agree. In the cause of limiting litter, I'd like to see a 5 cent tax
>> on
>> every Styrofoam cup.
>
> How would an added tax curtail littering? That's just a price increase...
> there'd be no incentive other than to litter more... because you were
> forced to pay more, therefore let the gubermint stupidity create litter
> picker jobs paid for with more tax dollars. When there is a deposit there
> is an incentive to return the item.


My thought was that if each cup cost 5 cents more, many places would replace
Styrofoam cups with paper/cardboard which are more biodegradable and
recyclable.

You are correct in that people who are going to litter will litter and it
doesn't matter what the container is made of.

George L

> > If they want to pay me $20 a month, they can rummage. Otherwise leave
> > my garbage alone.
>
> I don't understand this. Honestly.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -


I don't either. If it's a recyclable item, it should be available to
whoever wants to take the time to recycle it. It sounds like petty
councilmen making petty laws because one person had their trash messed
up or something.

N.

George Leppla wrote:
>
> "brooklyn1" > wrote in message
> news
>> "George Leppla" wrote:
>>>
>>> I agree. In the cause of limiting litter, I'd like to see a 5 cent
>>> tax on
>>> every Styrofoam cup.
>>
>> How would an added tax curtail littering? That's just a price
>> increase... there'd be no incentive other than to litter more...
>> because you were forced to pay more, therefore let the gubermint
>> stupidity create litter picker jobs paid for with more tax dollars.
>> When there is a deposit there is an incentive to return the item.
>
>
> My thought was that if each cup cost 5 cents more, many places would
> replace Styrofoam cups with paper/cardboard which are more biodegradable
> and recyclable.
>

In Massachusetts (aka Taxachusetts) there is a meals tax. As of August
1st it's 6.5%. So, soft drinks purchased at a fountain are already
taxed. I have not seen Styrofoam cups in a LONG time - at least in
places where you fill your own cup. It is not an incentive to not
litter. People who litter will always litter.


Tracy

On Tue, 04 Aug 2009 18:48:13 -0700, Terry Pulliam Burd
> wrote:

>On Mon, 3 Aug 2009 22:52:24 -0400, "Ed Pawlowski" > fired
>up random neurons and synapses to opine:
>
>>Our town went to that about a year ago. The first sort is with magnets to
>>get the steel out, then a series of light versus heavy sorting and some h
>>and picking.
>
>Well, thanks for that info. I always wondered how that worked, but my
>"wondering" usually happened when I was rolling down the street
>eyeballin' the recycling bins and not sitting in front of my computer.
>
and you didn't whip out your PDA? What restraint!

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On Wed, 05 Aug 2009 11:31:07 -0400, Tracy > wrote:

>George Leppla wrote:
>>
>> "brooklyn1" > wrote in message
>> news
>>> "George Leppla" wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I agree. In the cause of limiting litter, I'd like to see a 5 cent
>>>> tax on
>>>> every Styrofoam cup.
>>>
>>> How would an added tax curtail littering? That's just a price
>>> increase... there'd be no incentive other than to litter more...
>>> because you were forced to pay more, therefore let the gubermint
>>> stupidity create litter picker jobs paid for with more tax dollars.
>>> When there is a deposit there is an incentive to return the item.
>>
>>
>> My thought was that if each cup cost 5 cents more, many places would
>> replace Styrofoam cups with paper/cardboard which are more biodegradable
>> and recyclable.
>>
>
>In Massachusetts (aka Taxachusetts) there is a meals tax. As of August
>1st it's 6.5%. So, soft drinks purchased at a fountain are already
>taxed. I have not seen Styrofoam cups in a LONG time - at least in
>places where you fill your own cup. It is not an incentive to not
>litter. People who litter will always litter.
>
>
I, personally, like the switch from styrofoam to paper. The goal is
not to create more landfills. I also think biodegradable is a good
because some people will always treat their surroundings like a big
garbage can and leave it to others to pick up after them.

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

"George Leppla" > wrote in message
...
>
> "brooklyn1" > wrote in message
> news
>> "George Leppla" wrote:
>>>
>>> I agree. In the cause of limiting litter, I'd like to see a 5 cent tax
>>> on
>>> every Styrofoam cup.
>>
>> How would an added tax curtail littering? That's just a price
>> increase... there'd be no incentive other than to litter more... because
>> you were forced to pay more, therefore let the gubermint stupidity create
>> litter picker jobs paid for with more tax dollars. When there is a
>> deposit there is an incentive to return the item.
>
>
> My thought was that if each cup cost 5 cents more, many places would
> replace Styrofoam cups with paper/cardboard which are more biodegradable
> and recyclable.
>
> You are correct in that people who are going to litter will litter and it
> doesn't matter what the container is made of.
>
> George L

sf wrote:
> On Wed, 05 Aug 2009 11:31:07 -0400, Tracy > wrote:
>
>> George Leppla wrote:
>>> "brooklyn1" > wrote in message
>>> news >>>> "George Leppla" wrote:
>>>>> I agree. In the cause of limiting litter, I'd like to see a 5 cent
>>>>> tax on
>>>>> every Styrofoam cup.
>>>> How would an added tax curtail littering? That's just a price
>>>> increase... there'd be no incentive other than to litter more...
>>>> because you were forced to pay more, therefore let the gubermint
>>>> stupidity create litter picker jobs paid for with more tax dollars.
>>>> When there is a deposit there is an incentive to return the item.
>>>
>>> My thought was that if each cup cost 5 cents more, many places would
>>> replace Styrofoam cups with paper/cardboard which are more biodegradable
>>> and recyclable.
>>>
>> In Massachusetts (aka Taxachusetts) there is a meals tax. As of August
>> 1st it's 6.5%. So, soft drinks purchased at a fountain are already
>> taxed. I have not seen Styrofoam cups in a LONG time - at least in
>> places where you fill your own cup. It is not an incentive to not
>> litter. People who litter will always litter.
>>
>>
> I, personally, like the switch from styrofoam to paper. The goal is
> not to create more landfills. I also think biodegradable is a good
> because some people will always treat their surroundings like a big
> garbage can and leave it to others to pick up after them.
>
Whenever I do see styrofoam I just have to shake my head. There is
really no reason for it anymore. The only place I can recall seeing it
recently is at the car dealership - where they have the self serve
coffee - like a Keurig type machine. Oh, and there is a grocery store I
go to on occasion which has the same set up.

Tracy

sf wrote:


> I, personally, like the switch from styrofoam to paper. The goal is
> not to create more landfills. I also think biodegradable is a good
> because some people will always treat their surroundings like a big
> garbage can and leave it to others to pick up after them.


Having had to pick up way to much fast food garbage from my front lawn,
I have been known to pick it up and put it in my car and then on the
next trip past the golden arches I drive through the parking lot and
dump it there.

We have the Adopt A Road program around here where various groups
undertake to clean up litter along the side of the road a few times of
year. I do not participate. I clean up my own yard and expect others to
do the same. I would be more impressed with the program if places like
McDonalds and Tim Hortons sponsored the program, since their take out
containers account for most of the litter.

On Wed, 05 Aug 2009 12:49:27 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>Having had to pick up way to much fast food garbage from my front lawn,
>I have been known to pick it up and put it in my car and then on the
>next trip past the golden arches I drive through the parking lot and
>dump it there.

Not sure why you're blaming them for their customer's loutish
behavior.

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

"George Leppla" > wrote in message
...
>
> "brooklyn1" > wrote in message
> news
>> "George Leppla" wrote:
>>>
>>> I agree. In the cause of limiting litter, I'd like to see a 5 cent tax
>>> on
>>> every Styrofoam cup.
>>
>> How would an added tax curtail littering? That's just a price
>> increase... there'd be no incentive other than to litter more... because
>> you were forced to pay more, therefore let the gubermint stupidity create
>> litter picker jobs paid for with more tax dollars. When there is a
>> deposit there is an incentive to return the item.
>
>
> My thought was that if each cup cost 5 cents more, many places would
> replace Styrofoam cups with paper/cardboard which are more biodegradable
> and recyclable.
>
>
Paper cups that can hold hot liquids without falling apart are plastic
coated and are no more biodegradable than styrofoam, perhaps less so...
however styrofoam is used for its insulating properties... much easier to
handle therefor less chance of scalding your crotch while driving. Taxing
packaging will only create more litter, folks will resent the tax and to
feel they're getting revenge will actually go out of their way to litter
more rather than seach for a proper recepticle... unlike the idiot in the
oval office those with a functioning brain and a modicum of common sense
realize that taxing is the worst of all possible motivators to get someoneto
behave in a particular way... taxation is in fact punishment... ground your
kids for smoking pot and see what happens... reward for good behavior
results in a far more desirable outcome and with much less effort/expense
than punishment for bad behavior. Many coffee shops encourage folks to
purchase their reusable insulated containers by offering discounts on
refills, now that prevents littering at least as much as deposit containers,
and everyone benefits from the saving of resources, no throw away cups/no
recycling... recycling ain't free ya know. Folks talk recycling like it's
the big miracal be all to end all... actually recycling consumes more
resources and creates more pollution than the original manufacturing.
Recycling simply produces the same products, but now the hard way, the more
expensive way. What's needed is new technology, not to keep reinventing the
wheel. We don't need cars that use less petrol, we need cars that consume
no petrol. Hybrids are not the answer. tiny vehicles are no remedy. And we
have the technology, have had it for forty years, only politics is in the
way.

"Tracy" > wrote
>>
> Whenever I do see styrofoam I just have to shake my head. There is really
> no reason for it anymore.

It must be cheaper to produce. I see it at the dollar stores, the plates and
cups and bowls when I take one of my elderly relatives there. She uses them,
and she can squeeze a dollar til it hollers mama. I hate it. It makes my
blood run cold, to touch it. Like fingernails on a chalk board. I can barely
stand to take stuff out of styrofoam-block packed boxed.

cybercat wrote:
> "Tracy" > wrote
>> Whenever I do see styrofoam I just have to shake my head. There is really
>> no reason for it anymore.
>
> It must be cheaper to produce. I see it at the dollar stores, the plates and
> cups and bowls when I take one of my elderly relatives there. She uses them,
> and she can squeeze a dollar til it hollers mama. I hate it. It makes my
> blood run cold, to touch it. Like fingernails on a chalk board. I can barely
> stand to take stuff out of styrofoam-block packed boxed.
>
>
>
>
>

My boss likes to drink his coffee out of styrofoam. It drives me crazy.
I can't get him to switch. He does reuse them though.

Tracy

"Tracy" wrote
>
> My boss likes to drink his coffee out of styrofoam. It drives me crazy. I
> can't get him to switch. He does reuse them though.
>
>

Most bosses reuse stuff wherever they can... it saves money... that's why
he's the boss and you're the worker.

"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 05 Aug 2009 12:49:27 -0400, Dave Smith
> > wrote:
>
>>Having had to pick up way to much fast food garbage from my front lawn,
>>I have been known to pick it up and put it in my car and then on the
>>next trip past the golden arches I drive through the parking lot and
>>dump it there.
>
> Not sure why you're blaming them for their customer's loutish
> behavior.
>
> Do you really believe he does that, I don't.

In article >,
Dave Smith > wrote:

> sf wrote:
>
>
> > I, personally, like the switch from styrofoam to paper. The goal is
> > not to create more landfills. I also think biodegradable is a good
> > because some people will always treat their surroundings like a big
> > garbage can and leave it to others to pick up after them.
>
>
> Having had to pick up way to much fast food garbage from my front lawn,
> I have been known to pick it up and put it in my car and then on the
> next trip past the golden arches I drive through the parking lot and
> dump it there.
>
> We have the Adopt A Road program around here where various groups
> undertake to clean up litter along the side of the road a few times of
> year. I do not participate. I clean up my own yard and expect others to
> do the same. I would be more impressed with the program if places like
> McDonalds and Tim Hortons sponsored the program, since their take out
> containers account for most of the litter.

I have to de-litter the roadside in front of my property too, and I also
pick up the neighbors on either side of me because they don't do it.
The people across the street do their areas so it works out ok.
--
Peace! Om

"Human nature seems to be to control other people until they put their foot down."
--Steve Rothstein


Subscribe:

On Aug 4, 3:15*pm, Andy > wrote:
> Nancy2 said...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 3, 3:45*am, Andy > wrote:
> >> Terry Pulliam Burd said...
>
> >> > On Fri, 31 Jul 2009 07:53:42 -0500, Andy > fired up random
> >> > neurons and synapses to opine:
>
> >> >>That paints a terrible mental picture. We used to get poor people
> going
> >> >>through curbside trash looking for aluminum cans and they would toss
> >> >>anything in their way onto the curb. We called them human roaches.
>
> >> > The LA City council has been discussing putting locks on homeowners'
> >> > recycling bins b/c of this. Personally, I think it's a petty, cruel
> >> > move for the more affluent to lock away something that's being thrown
> >> > out. Counterintuitive, IMHO, but the City council insists that it will
> >> > keep the "undesirables" out of residential neighborhoods. They also
> >> > attempted to keep the taco trucks from parking for more than one hour
> >> > in one place - claimed it hurt local restaurants. Like a taco truck is
> >> > going to be competition for a restaurant? Likewise, the Santa Ana city
> >> > council has been discussing banning the ice cream handcarts. What a
> >> > crock. What's next? Ban the little old ladies in SA from using their
> >> > iconic umbrellas?
>
> >> > Terry "Squeaks" Pulliam Burd
>
> >> Around center city Philly, there are food carts all over, serving all
> kin
> > ds
> >> of cuisine. Some of the best, actually.
>
> >> At the courthouse in town, a family holds permits to two food carts, one
> > at
> >> the front and one at the side entrance. They do a landslide business for
> >> the legals who can't stray too far from the courtrooms. The carts are
> the
> >> ones they stand inside with grills, etc., cooking good food at fair
> price
> > s.
>
> >> There are plenty of restaurants blocks or so away but with the
> population
> >> of jurors, etc., they are all easily overrun at lunch. Jurors get a clip
> > on
> >> lapel pin to get quicker service and 10% off in the interest of time and
> > as
> >> a courtesy for doing their civic duty. I'm very proud of that, having
> >> served jury duty several times.
>
> >> On recycling... In L.A., at the time, recycling wasn't mandatory. We
> didn
> > 't
> >> have separate recycling bins like we do today. I'm not positive but
> excep
> > t
> >> for the return-deposit bottles, the public is not allowed to privately
> tu
> > rn
> >> in recyclable materials. In any case, nobody's ever swiped our curb
> >> recycling. Maybe down on the flatlands they do. I dunno.
>
> >> Andy- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > We see various homeless people and retirees regularly salvaging cans
> > from recycle containers so they can get the 5 cents each at the
> > supermarket recycle center. *No problem; nobody resents it; as long as
> > they get recycled, they're up for grabs. *(Iowa has a can/bottle
> > deposit law that applies to beer and soft drinks, but not fruit juice
> > or water - go figure.)
>
> > Anyone here can take anything they want to a recycle center without
> > any problem. *As a matter of fact, that's the only way we can recycle
> > glossy magazines and glass at the present time.
>
> > N.
>
> My long ago roommate in San Diego had the local kids hunting down aluminum
> cans. He paid them a few pennies per can. Then he'd proceed to drop in lead
> nails into each can, crush them and turn them in to a recycling center.
> Wrong as it was, it kept us in beer. Very enterprising of him. Laying in
> the sand. No worries.
>
> Andy- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

We take recyclable cans to the supermarket recycle center - 5 cents
per can - they go into the machine whole and come out (out of sight)
crushed. There isn't any premium for weight. The recycling machines
can't accept crushed cans.

N.

On Aug 5, 11:34*am, Tracy > wrote:
> sf wrote:
> > On Wed, 05 Aug 2009 11:31:07 -0400, Tracy > wrote:
>
> >> George Leppla wrote:
> >>> "brooklyn1" > wrote in message
> >>>news > >>>> "George Leppla" wrote:
> >>>>> I agree. *In the cause of limiting litter, I'd like to see a 5 cent
> >>>>> tax on
> >>>>> every Styrofoam cup.
> >>>> How would an added tax curtail littering? *That's just a price
> >>>> increase... there'd be no incentive other than to litter more...
> >>>> because you were forced to pay more, therefore let the gubermint
> >>>> stupidity create litter picker jobs paid for with more tax dollars. *
> >>>> When there is a deposit there is an incentive to return the item.
>
> >>> My thought was that if each cup cost 5 cents more, many places would
> >>> replace Styrofoam cups with paper/cardboard which are more biodegradable
> >>> and recyclable.
>
> >> In Massachusetts (aka Taxachusetts) there is a meals tax. As of August
> >> 1st it's 6.5%. So, soft drinks purchased at a fountain are already
> >> taxed. I have not seen Styrofoam cups in a LONG time - at least in
> >> places where you fill your own cup. It is not an incentive to not
> >> litter. People who litter will always litter.
>
> > I, personally, like the switch from styrofoam to paper. *The goal is
> > not to create more landfills. *I also think biodegradable is a good
> > because some people will always treat their surroundings like a big
> > garbage can and leave it to others to pick up after them. *
>
> Whenever I do see styrofoam I just have to shake my head. There is
> really no reason for it anymore. The only place I can recall seeing it
> recently is at the car dealership - where they have the self serve
> coffee - like a Keurig type machine. Oh, and there is a grocery store I
> go to on occasion which has the same set up.
>
> Tracy- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I like styrofoam because it keeps hot things hot and cold things
cold. Cardboard doesn't do that. Maybe I should just use coozies for
throw-away-container drinks....

N.

On Aug 5, 12:42*pm, "cybercat" > wrote:
> "Tracy" > wrote
>
>
>
> > Whenever I do see styrofoam I just have to shake my head. There is really
> > no reason for it anymore.
>
> It must be cheaper to produce. I see it at the dollar stores, the plates and
> cups and bowls when I take one of my elderly relatives there. She uses them,
> and she can squeeze a dollar til it hollers mama. I hate it. It makes my
> blood run cold, to touch it. Like fingernails on a chalk board. I can barely
> stand to take stuff out of styrofoam-block packed boxed.

I'm not so sure it isn't recyclable in its present form. I know they
make styrofoam containers out of recycled stuff.

N.

On Aug 5, 3:14*pm, Omelet > wrote:

> I have to de-litter the roadside in front of my property too, and I also
> pick up the neighbors on either side of me because they don't do it. *
> The people across the street do their areas so it works out ok.

I drive over it with my 16-hp lawn tractor. A few passes and it's
mulched.
Except for the rare glass bottle, since we have a deposit law here.

I often think that most of the litter blows out of the backs of pickup
trucks.

Cindy Hamilton

In article
>,
Cindy Hamilton > wrote:

> On Aug 5, 3:14*pm, Omelet > wrote:
>
> > I have to de-litter the roadside in front of my property too, and I also
> > pick up the neighbors on either side of me because they don't do it. *
> > The people across the street do their areas so it works out ok.
>
> I drive over it with my 16-hp lawn tractor. A few passes and it's
> mulched.
> Except for the rare glass bottle, since we have a deposit law here.
>
> I often think that most of the litter blows out of the backs of pickup
> trucks.
>
> Cindy Hamilton

Probably.

The city mows the drainage ditches twice per year. If I want trash free
property, I have to police it myself. ;-)
--
Peace! Om

"Human nature seems to be to control other people until they put their foot down."
--Steve Rothstein


Subscribe:

On Wed, 5 Aug 2009 12:31:18 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
> wrote:

>I often think that most of the litter blows out of the backs of pickup
>trucks.

Have you ever been behind a truck hauling garbage watching the trash
fly out? Grrrr. There are laws about proper covering, but they don't
seem to be enforced around here.

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

"Tracy" > wrote in message
> Whenever I do see styrofoam I just have to shake my head. There is really
> no reason for it anymore. The only place I can recall seeing it recently
> is at the car dealership - where they have the self serve coffee - like a
> Keurig type machine. Oh, and there is a grocery store I go to on occasion
> which has the same set up.
>
> Tracy

If you really study the effects of foam cups versus paper it is pretty much
a wash. Paper cups are sprayed with a liner that helps to keep them
leakproof, but also stops them from biodegrading. Biodegradable products
also produce greenhouse gasses and global warming. Either material can be
converted to energy in a trash plant though.

Rather than change materials, we have to educate slobs that dump trash.
It is a know fact that paper can survive in a landfill for decades and not
degrade at all. 50 year old newspapers have been perfectly readable when a
landfill was opened up for study.

Foam cups also make good insulators. Some places double the paper cups to
keep you from getting burnt. Not so practical.

"Tracy" > wrote in message
>
> My boss likes to drink his coffee out of styrofoam. It drives me crazy. I
> can't get him to switch. He does reuse them though.
>
> Tracy
>

Good for him. A very sensible man.