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Default Shortening versus Butter in Homemade Biscuits

Arri London wrote:
>
> Christine Dabney wrote:
>> On Sun, 26 Jul 2009 23:47:11 GMT, "brooklyn1"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> Butter works as a shortening in pastry and sweet doughs but not in
>>> breads

>> Broche has a lot of butter, and it is what gives it much of it's
>> character. I think that is a bread..
>>
>> Christine
>>

>
> Plus people made bread with butter or lard long before solid veg
> shortenings were invented. They work perfectly for breads as well as
> sweetened doughs.
>
> We never have veg shortening in the house. The Maternal Unit likes the
> cheap tube biscuits which contain shortening plus too much baking
> powder. They have an aftertaste which isn't pleasant.
>
> Damaeus...your overly yellow biscuits may have had too much baking
> powder in them. That often will turn a dough yellowish.


I also don't use veg shortening. I'd rather use butter and/or
lard as in days of yore. I have eyed those tubes for years,
hoping the ingredients would change.

--
Jean B.
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Default Shortening versus Butter in Homemade Biscuits

Wayne Boatwright wrote:
> On Sun 26 Jul 2009 08:24:53p, Paul M. Cook told us...
>
>> "Damaeus" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> I accidentally posted this first to rec.food-cooking....here's a post
>>> for
>>> this group:
>>>
>>> I like biscuits now and then, and I got the itch to have some a while
>>> back when I was watching the Food Network and saw Tyler Florence's
>>> version. He shocked me when he said to use vegetable shortening, his
>>> reason being that he found that butter tends to burn, while shortening
>>> doesn't.
>>>
>>> Well, here's the recipe, first of all:
>>>
>>> http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/t...lk-biscuits-re
>>> cipe2/index.html
>>>
>>> Okay, I tried the recipe. I have to say they were not unedible, but
>>> nowhere near the quality of biscuits I had made using butter instead of
>>> shortening. These biscuits came out reminding me of store-bought,
>>> canned biscuits. I blame the shortening, because all shortening is, is
>>> hydrogenated and partially hydrogenated oils. I was skeptical of them
>>> for that reason alone.
>>>
>>> That said, I had normally made biscuits with plain whole milk, not
>>> buttermilk. We normally don't keep buttermilk in the house, but my
>>> roommate had a craving for fried chicken with buttermilk batter, so
>>> since we had some left, I made buttermilk biscuits, then buttermilk
>>> pancakes a few days later. The biscuits did rise nicely, however. But
>>> they turned out with a very yellow color inside, which surprised me
>>> greatly. They were quite white going in, but you'd think I'd laced
>>> them with turmeric, they came out so yellow. (I used unbleached
>>> flour.)
>>>
>>> As for the doneness, there was an even, brown crust all the way around
>>> it, that was almost cookie-like in texture, about a millimeter thick.
>>> I layered it as he suggested on TV, and as a result, they simply pulled
>>> apart like a biscuit-bun, no need for a knife to cut it in half.
>>>
>>> Once I get some more flour, I'm going to try buttermilk biscuits again
>>> before it expires, using butter instead of shortening to compare.
>>>
>>> What is your experience with using butter versus shortening? So far,
>>> I'm not impressed with shortening, but I may have to blame the
>>> buttermilk if using butter in the next go-around results in the same
>>> type of experience.
>>>

>>
>> I've never found butter to work well in biscuits. You get a crispy
>> rather than soft biscuit. I don't like the heavy taste anyway as I put
>> butter on the biscuits. I have always used lard or vegetable
>> shortening. Lard makes the best biscuits IMO.
>>
>> Paul

>
> Lard + buttermilk + soft wheat flour (like White Lily) make the lightest
> and best biscuits.
>

I can see I need to buy more lard. I am thinking I can use the
recipe in James Beard's American Cookery, but with those
ingredients. Yes?

Speaking of buttermilk... This is probably a stupid question, but
is it possible to find real old-fashioned buttermilk anywhere in
the Boston area?

--
Jean B.
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Default Shortening versus Butter in Homemade Biscuits

On Tue 28 Jul 2009 05:22:07a, Jean B. told us...

> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>> On Sun 26 Jul 2009 08:24:53p, Paul M. Cook told us...
>>
>>> "Damaeus" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> I accidentally posted this first to rec.food-cooking....here's a post
>>>> for this group:
>>>>
>>>> I like biscuits now and then, and I got the itch to have some a while
>>>> back when I was watching the Food Network and saw Tyler Florence's
>>>> version. He shocked me when he said to use vegetable shortening, his
>>>> reason being that he found that butter tends to burn, while shortening
>>>> doesn't.
>>>>
>>>> Well, here's the recipe, first of all:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/t...milk-biscuits-

re
>>>> cipe2/index.html
>>>>
>>>> Okay, I tried the recipe. I have to say they were not unedible, but
>>>> nowhere near the quality of biscuits I had made using butter instead

of
>>>> shortening. These biscuits came out reminding me of store-bought,
>>>> canned biscuits. I blame the shortening, because all shortening is,

is
>>>> hydrogenated and partially hydrogenated oils. I was skeptical of them
>>>> for that reason alone.
>>>>
>>>> That said, I had normally made biscuits with plain whole milk, not
>>>> buttermilk. We normally don't keep buttermilk in the house, but my
>>>> roommate had a craving for fried chicken with buttermilk batter, so
>>>> since we had some left, I made buttermilk biscuits, then buttermilk
>>>> pancakes a few days later. The biscuits did rise nicely, however.

But
>>>> they turned out with a very yellow color inside, which surprised me
>>>> greatly. They were quite white going in, but you'd think I'd laced
>>>> them with turmeric, they came out so yellow. (I used unbleached

flour.)
>>>>
>>>> As for the doneness, there was an even, brown crust all the way around
>>>> it, that was almost cookie-like in texture, about a millimeter thick.
>>>> I layered it as he suggested on TV, and as a result, they simply

pulled
>>>> apart like a biscuit-bun, no need for a knife to cut it in half.
>>>>
>>>> Once I get some more flour, I'm going to try buttermilk biscuits again
>>>> before it expires, using butter instead of shortening to compare.
>>>>
>>>> What is your experience with using butter versus shortening? So far,
>>>> I'm not impressed with shortening, but I may have to blame the
>>>> buttermilk if using butter in the next go-around results in the same
>>>> type of experience.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I've never found butter to work well in biscuits. You get a crispy
>>> rather than soft biscuit. I don't like the heavy taste anyway as I put
>>> butter on the biscuits. I have always used lard or vegetable
>>> shortening. Lard makes the best biscuits IMO.
>>>
>>> Paul

>>
>> Lard + buttermilk + soft wheat flour (like White Lily) make the lightest
>> and best biscuits.
>>

> I can see I need to buy more lard. I am thinking I can use the
> recipe in James Beard's American Cookery, but with those
> ingredients. Yes?


Absolutely.

> Speaking of buttermilk... This is probably a stupid question, but
> is it possible to find real old-fashioned buttermilk anywhere in
> the Boston area?


Most of what you'll find in any city is cultured buttermilk, but quality
varies. I usually buy mine at TJ's or Sprouts. You'd probably have to
find a private dairy to get the "real thing", but good quality cultured
buttermilk works just fine.

Once you have some, you can perpetuate your supply by mixing up a quart of
non-fat dry milk, adding a cup of buttermilk and leaving it to set on the
counter overnight, or until it clabbers. Then shake well and refrigerate.
You can repeat this process indefinitely. Buttermilk used for cooking
purposes can be kept refrigerated for months without spoiling.



--
Wayne Boatwright
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oil and potatoes both grow underground so french fries may have
eventually produced themselves, had they not been invented. A.J. Esther



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Default Shortening versus Butter in Homemade Biscuits

On Jul 28, 7:31*am, Wayne Boatwright >
wrote:
> *
>
> Once you have some, you can perpetuate your supply by mixing up a quart of
> non-fat dry milk, adding a cup of buttermilk and leaving it to set on the
> counter overnight, or until it clabbers.


Powdered milk? Bad ingredients in...

> --
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Wayne Boatwright *


--Bryan
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Default Shortening versus Butter in Homemade Biscuits

Wayne Boatwright wrote:
> On Tue 28 Jul 2009 05:22:07a, Jean B. told us...
>
>> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>> On Sun 26 Jul 2009 08:24:53p, Paul M. Cook told us...
>>>
>>>> "Damaeus" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> I accidentally posted this first to rec.food-cooking....here's a post
>>>>> for this group:
>>>>>
>>>>> I like biscuits now and then, and I got the itch to have some a while
>>>>> back when I was watching the Food Network and saw Tyler Florence's
>>>>> version. He shocked me when he said to use vegetable shortening, his
>>>>> reason being that he found that butter tends to burn, while shortening
>>>>> doesn't.
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, here's the recipe, first of all:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/t...milk-biscuits-

> re
>>>>> cipe2/index.html
>>>>>
>>>>> Okay, I tried the recipe. I have to say they were not unedible, but
>>>>> nowhere near the quality of biscuits I had made using butter instead

> of
>>>>> shortening. These biscuits came out reminding me of store-bought,
>>>>> canned biscuits. I blame the shortening, because all shortening is,

> is
>>>>> hydrogenated and partially hydrogenated oils. I was skeptical of them
>>>>> for that reason alone.
>>>>>
>>>>> That said, I had normally made biscuits with plain whole milk, not
>>>>> buttermilk. We normally don't keep buttermilk in the house, but my
>>>>> roommate had a craving for fried chicken with buttermilk batter, so
>>>>> since we had some left, I made buttermilk biscuits, then buttermilk
>>>>> pancakes a few days later. The biscuits did rise nicely, however.

> But
>>>>> they turned out with a very yellow color inside, which surprised me
>>>>> greatly. They were quite white going in, but you'd think I'd laced
>>>>> them with turmeric, they came out so yellow. (I used unbleached

> flour.)
>>>>> As for the doneness, there was an even, brown crust all the way around
>>>>> it, that was almost cookie-like in texture, about a millimeter thick.
>>>>> I layered it as he suggested on TV, and as a result, they simply

> pulled
>>>>> apart like a biscuit-bun, no need for a knife to cut it in half.
>>>>>
>>>>> Once I get some more flour, I'm going to try buttermilk biscuits again
>>>>> before it expires, using butter instead of shortening to compare.
>>>>>
>>>>> What is your experience with using butter versus shortening? So far,
>>>>> I'm not impressed with shortening, but I may have to blame the
>>>>> buttermilk if using butter in the next go-around results in the same
>>>>> type of experience.
>>>>>
>>>> I've never found butter to work well in biscuits. You get a crispy
>>>> rather than soft biscuit. I don't like the heavy taste anyway as I put
>>>> butter on the biscuits. I have always used lard or vegetable
>>>> shortening. Lard makes the best biscuits IMO.
>>>>
>>>> Paul
>>> Lard + buttermilk + soft wheat flour (like White Lily) make the lightest
>>> and best biscuits.
>>>

>> I can see I need to buy more lard. I am thinking I can use the
>> recipe in James Beard's American Cookery, but with those
>> ingredients. Yes?

>
> Absolutely.
>
>> Speaking of buttermilk... This is probably a stupid question, but
>> is it possible to find real old-fashioned buttermilk anywhere in
>> the Boston area?

>
> Most of what you'll find in any city is cultured buttermilk, but quality
> varies. I usually buy mine at TJ's or Sprouts. You'd probably have to
> find a private dairy to get the "real thing", but good quality cultured
> buttermilk works just fine.
>
> Once you have some, you can perpetuate your supply by mixing up a quart of
> non-fat dry milk, adding a cup of buttermilk and leaving it to set on the
> counter overnight, or until it clabbers. Then shake well and refrigerate.
> You can repeat this process indefinitely. Buttermilk used for cooking
> purposes can be kept refrigerated for months without spoiling.
>

Cool! Thanks. I still would like to find the old-style
buttermilk at least once in my lifetime.

--
Jean B.


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Default Shortening versus Butter in Homemade Biscuits

On Tue 28 Jul 2009 05:59:12a, Jean B. told us...

> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>> On Tue 28 Jul 2009 05:22:07a, Jean B. told us...
>>
>>> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>>> On Sun 26 Jul 2009 08:24:53p, Paul M. Cook told us...
>>>>
>>>>> "Damaeus" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>> I accidentally posted this first to rec.food-cooking....here's a
>>>>>> post for this group:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I like biscuits now and then, and I got the itch to have some a
>>>>>> while back when I was watching the Food Network and saw Tyler
>>>>>> Florence's version. He shocked me when he said to use vegetable
>>>>>> shortening, his reason being that he found that butter tends to
>>>>>> burn, while shortening doesn't.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, here's the recipe, first of all:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/t...ermilk-biscuit
>>>>>> s- re cipe2/index.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Okay, I tried the recipe. I have to say they were not unedible,
>>>>>> but nowhere near the quality of biscuits I had made using butter
>>>>>> instead of shortening. These biscuits came out reminding me of
>>>>>> store-bought, canned biscuits. I blame the shortening, because all
>>>>>> shortening is, is hydrogenated and partially hydrogenated oils. I
>>>>>> was skeptical of them for that reason alone.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That said, I had normally made biscuits with plain whole milk, not
>>>>>> buttermilk. We normally don't keep buttermilk in the house, but my
>>>>>> roommate had a craving for fried chicken with buttermilk batter, so
>>>>>> since we had some left, I made buttermilk biscuits, then buttermilk
>>>>>> pancakes a few days later. The biscuits did rise nicely, however.
>>>>>> But they turned out with a very yellow color inside, which
>>>>>> surprised me greatly. They were quite white going in, but you'd
>>>>>> think I'd laced them with turmeric, they came out so yellow. (I
>>>>>> used unbleached flour.) As for the doneness, there was an even,
>>>>>> brown crust all the way around it, that was almost cookie-like in
>>>>>> texture, about a millimeter thick. I layered it as he suggested on
>>>>>> TV, and as a result, they simply pulled apart like a biscuit-bun,
>>>>>> no need for a knife to cut it in half.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Once I get some more flour, I'm going to try buttermilk biscuits
>>>>>> again before it expires, using butter instead of shortening to
>>>>>> compare.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What is your experience with using butter versus shortening? So
>>>>>> far, I'm not impressed with shortening, but I may have to blame the
>>>>>> buttermilk if using butter in the next go-around results in the
>>>>>> same type of experience.
>>>>>>
>>>>> I've never found butter to work well in biscuits. You get a crispy
>>>>> rather than soft biscuit. I don't like the heavy taste anyway as I
>>>>> put butter on the biscuits. I have always used lard or vegetable
>>>>> shortening. Lard makes the best biscuits IMO.
>>>>>
>>>>> Paul
>>>> Lard + buttermilk + soft wheat flour (like White Lily) make the
>>>> lightest and best biscuits.
>>>>
>>> I can see I need to buy more lard. I am thinking I can use the
>>> recipe in James Beard's American Cookery, but with those ingredients.
>>> Yes?

>>
>> Absolutely.
>>
>>> Speaking of buttermilk... This is probably a stupid question, but
>>> is it possible to find real old-fashioned buttermilk anywhere in the
>>> Boston area?

>>
>> Most of what you'll find in any city is cultured buttermilk, but
>> quality varies. I usually buy mine at TJ's or Sprouts. You'd probably
>> have to find a private dairy to get the "real thing", but good quality
>> cultured buttermilk works just fine.
>>
>> Once you have some, you can perpetuate your supply by mixing up a quart
>> of non-fat dry milk, adding a cup of buttermilk and leaving it to set
>> on the counter overnight, or until it clabbers. Then shake well and
>> refrigerate. You can repeat this process indefinitely. Buttermilk
>> used for cooking purposes can be kept refrigerated for months without
>> spoiling.
>>

> Cool! Thanks. I still would like to find the old-style
> buttermilk at least once in my lifetime.
>


Then you need raw milk where the cream hasn't been separated, and a churn.
You can buy tabletop churns. You get the best of both worlds, fresh butter
and fresh buttermilk. OTOH, if you drive out into the country where there
are small farms that keep a few cows, they may make small quantities for
themselves and might be wiling to part with some. Is there any Amish
country within your driving distance?

--
Wayne Boatwright
------------------------------------------------------------------------
This special feeling towards fruit, its glory and abundance, is I
would say universal.... We respond to strawberry fields or cherry
orchards with a delight that a cabbage patch or even an elegant
vegetable garden cannot provoke. Jane Grigson



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Default Shortening versus Butter in Homemade Biscuits

Bobo Bonobo® wrote:

> Non-hydrogenated lard is nowhere near as bad for health as
> hydrogenated oil.
> The dominant fat in lard is monounsaturated.


I agree that shortening is bad stuff, but please don't try to convince
me that lard is a friend of ours. That's absurd!

>> I won't make biscuits anymore because it don't fit in with what I
>> consider healthy eating - not because it's the current food scare going
>> around these days.
>>
>>>>>>> Damaeus
>>>>> --Bryan
>>> --Bryan

>
> --Bryan

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Default Shortening versus Butter in Homemade Biscuits

On Jul 28, 9:06*am, Wayne Boatwright >
wrote:
> On Tue 28 Jul 2009 05:59:12a, Jean B. told us...
>
>
>
> > Wayne Boatwright wrote:
> >> On Tue 28 Jul 2009 05:22:07a, Jean B. told us...

>
> >>> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
> >>>> On Sun 26 Jul 2009 08:24:53p, Paul M. Cook told us...

>
> >>>>> "Damaeus" > wrote in message
> om...
> >>>>>> I accidentally posted this first to rec.food-cooking....here's a
> >>>>>> post for this group:

>
> >>>>>> I like biscuits now and then, and I got the itch to have some a
> >>>>>> while back when I was watching the Food Network and saw Tyler
> >>>>>> Florence's version. *He shocked me when he said to use vegetable
> >>>>>> shortening, his reason being that he found that butter tends to
> >>>>>> burn, while shortening doesn't.

>
> >>>>>> Well, here's the recipe, first of all:

>
> >>>>>>http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/t...ermilk-biscuit
> >>>>>> s- re cipe2/index.html

>
> >>>>>> Okay, I tried the recipe. *I have to say they were not unedible,
> >>>>>> but nowhere near the quality of biscuits I had made using butter
> >>>>>> instead *of shortening. *These biscuits came out reminding me of
> >>>>>> store-bought, canned biscuits. *I blame the shortening, because all
> >>>>>> shortening is, *is hydrogenated and partially hydrogenated oils. *I
> >>>>>> was skeptical of them for that reason alone.

>
> >>>>>> That said, I had normally made biscuits with plain whole milk, not
> >>>>>> buttermilk. *We normally don't keep buttermilk in the house, but my
> >>>>>> roommate had a craving for fried chicken with buttermilk batter, so
> >>>>>> since we had some left, I made buttermilk biscuits, then buttermilk
> >>>>>> pancakes a few days later. *The biscuits did rise nicely, however.

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Default Shortening versus Butter in Homemade Biscuits



"Jean B." wrote:
>
> Arri London wrote:
> >
> > Christine Dabney wrote:
> >> On Sun, 26 Jul 2009 23:47:11 GMT, "brooklyn1"
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >>> Butter works as a shortening in pastry and sweet doughs but not in
> >>> breads
> >> Broche has a lot of butter, and it is what gives it much of it's
> >> character. I think that is a bread..
> >>
> >> Christine
> >>

> >
> > Plus people made bread with butter or lard long before solid veg
> > shortenings were invented. They work perfectly for breads as well as
> > sweetened doughs.
> >
> > We never have veg shortening in the house. The Maternal Unit likes the
> > cheap tube biscuits which contain shortening plus too much baking
> > powder. They have an aftertaste which isn't pleasant.
> >
> > Damaeus...your overly yellow biscuits may have had too much baking
> > powder in them. That often will turn a dough yellowish.

>
> I also don't use veg shortening. I'd rather use butter and/or
> lard as in days of yore. I have eyed those tubes for years,
> hoping the ingredients would change.
>
> --
> Jean B.



Not likely. Long shelf life and dreadfully convenient.
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Default Shortening versus Butter in Homemade Biscuits


>> Arri London wrote:
>> >
>> > Christine Dabney wrote:
>> >> On Sun, 26 Jul 2009 23:47:11 GMT, "brooklyn1"
>> >> Brooklyn1 wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Butter works as a shortening in pastry and sweet doughs but not in
>> >>> breads
>> >> Broche has a lot of butter, and it is what gives it much of it's
>> >> character. I think that is a bread..
>> >>
>> >> Christine


Brioche is technically a bread but in actuallity is more an eggy yeast cake
like babka. Brioche is baked in a mold, like a cake, at a lower temperature
than true breads, therefore the butter won't burn. Brioche is more often
baked with a filling (cheese) and is rarely used for sandwiches, it's more a
dessert, served with a fruit preserve topping.




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Default Shortening versus Butter in Homemade Biscuits

Wayne Boatwright wrote:
> On Tue 28 Jul 2009 05:59:12a, Jean B. told us...
>
>> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>> On Tue 28 Jul 2009 05:22:07a, Jean B. told us...
>>>
>>>> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>>>> On Sun 26 Jul 2009 08:24:53p, Paul M. Cook told us...
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Damaeus" > wrote in message
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>> I accidentally posted this first to rec.food-cooking....here's a
>>>>>>> post for this group:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I like biscuits now and then, and I got the itch to have some a
>>>>>>> while back when I was watching the Food Network and saw Tyler
>>>>>>> Florence's version. He shocked me when he said to use vegetable
>>>>>>> shortening, his reason being that he found that butter tends to
>>>>>>> burn, while shortening doesn't.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well, here's the recipe, first of all:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/t...ermilk-biscuit
>>>>>>> s- re cipe2/index.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Okay, I tried the recipe. I have to say they were not unedible,
>>>>>>> but nowhere near the quality of biscuits I had made using butter
>>>>>>> instead of shortening. These biscuits came out reminding me of
>>>>>>> store-bought, canned biscuits. I blame the shortening, because all
>>>>>>> shortening is, is hydrogenated and partially hydrogenated oils. I
>>>>>>> was skeptical of them for that reason alone.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That said, I had normally made biscuits with plain whole milk, not
>>>>>>> buttermilk. We normally don't keep buttermilk in the house, but my
>>>>>>> roommate had a craving for fried chicken with buttermilk batter, so
>>>>>>> since we had some left, I made buttermilk biscuits, then buttermilk
>>>>>>> pancakes a few days later. The biscuits did rise nicely, however.
>>>>>>> But they turned out with a very yellow color inside, which
>>>>>>> surprised me greatly. They were quite white going in, but you'd
>>>>>>> think I'd laced them with turmeric, they came out so yellow. (I
>>>>>>> used unbleached flour.) As for the doneness, there was an even,
>>>>>>> brown crust all the way around it, that was almost cookie-like in
>>>>>>> texture, about a millimeter thick. I layered it as he suggested on
>>>>>>> TV, and as a result, they simply pulled apart like a biscuit-bun,
>>>>>>> no need for a knife to cut it in half.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Once I get some more flour, I'm going to try buttermilk biscuits
>>>>>>> again before it expires, using butter instead of shortening to
>>>>>>> compare.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What is your experience with using butter versus shortening? So
>>>>>>> far, I'm not impressed with shortening, but I may have to blame the
>>>>>>> buttermilk if using butter in the next go-around results in the
>>>>>>> same type of experience.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've never found butter to work well in biscuits. You get a crispy
>>>>>> rather than soft biscuit. I don't like the heavy taste anyway as I
>>>>>> put butter on the biscuits. I have always used lard or vegetable
>>>>>> shortening. Lard makes the best biscuits IMO.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Paul
>>>>> Lard + buttermilk + soft wheat flour (like White Lily) make the
>>>>> lightest and best biscuits.
>>>>>
>>>> I can see I need to buy more lard. I am thinking I can use the
>>>> recipe in James Beard's American Cookery, but with those ingredients.
>>>> Yes?
>>> Absolutely.
>>>
>>>> Speaking of buttermilk... This is probably a stupid question, but
>>>> is it possible to find real old-fashioned buttermilk anywhere in the
>>>> Boston area?
>>> Most of what you'll find in any city is cultured buttermilk, but
>>> quality varies. I usually buy mine at TJ's or Sprouts. You'd probably
>>> have to find a private dairy to get the "real thing", but good quality
>>> cultured buttermilk works just fine.
>>>
>>> Once you have some, you can perpetuate your supply by mixing up a quart
>>> of non-fat dry milk, adding a cup of buttermilk and leaving it to set
>>> on the counter overnight, or until it clabbers. Then shake well and
>>> refrigerate. You can repeat this process indefinitely. Buttermilk
>>> used for cooking purposes can be kept refrigerated for months without
>>> spoiling.
>>>

>> Cool! Thanks. I still would like to find the old-style
>> buttermilk at least once in my lifetime.
>>

>
> Then you need raw milk where the cream hasn't been separated, and a churn.
> You can buy tabletop churns. You get the best of both worlds, fresh butter
> and fresh buttermilk. OTOH, if you drive out into the country where there
> are small farms that keep a few cows, they may make small quantities for
> themselves and might be wiling to part with some. Is there any Amish
> country within your driving distance?
>

Probably not. BUT this ties in with my growing desire to
experience milk that is more like nature intended!

--
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Default Shortening versus Butter in Homemade Biscuits

John Kane wrote:
> On Jul 28, 9:06 am, Wayne Boatwright >
> wrote:
>> On Tue 28 Jul 2009 05:59:12a, Jean B. told us...
>>
>>
>>
>>> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>>> On Tue 28 Jul 2009 05:22:07a, Jean B. told us...
>>>>> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun 26 Jul 2009 08:24:53p, Paul M. Cook told us...
>>>>>>> "Damaeus" > wrote in message
>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>> I accidentally posted this first to rec.food-cooking....here's a
>>>>>>>> post for this group:
>>>>>>>> I like biscuits now and then, and I got the itch to have some a
>>>>>>>> while back when I was watching the Food Network and saw Tyler
>>>>>>>> Florence's version. He shocked me when he said to use vegetable
>>>>>>>> shortening, his reason being that he found that butter tends to
>>>>>>>> burn, while shortening doesn't.
>>>>>>>> Well, here's the recipe, first of all:
>>>>>>>> http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/t...ermilk-biscuit
>>>>>>>> s- re cipe2/index.html
>>>>>>>> Okay, I tried the recipe. I have to say they were not unedible,
>>>>>>>> but nowhere near the quality of biscuits I had made using butter
>>>>>>>> instead of shortening. These biscuits came out reminding me of
>>>>>>>> store-bought, canned biscuits. I blame the shortening, because all
>>>>>>>> shortening is, is hydrogenated and partially hydrogenated oils. I
>>>>>>>> was skeptical of them for that reason alone.
>>>>>>>> That said, I had normally made biscuits with plain whole milk, not
>>>>>>>> buttermilk. We normally don't keep buttermilk in the house, but my
>>>>>>>> roommate had a craving for fried chicken with buttermilk batter, so
>>>>>>>> since we had some left, I made buttermilk biscuits, then buttermilk
>>>>>>>> pancakes a few days later. The biscuits did rise nicely, however.
>>>>>>>> But they turned out with a very yellow color inside, which
>>>>>>>> surprised me greatly. They were quite white going in, but you'd
>>>>>>>> think I'd laced them with turmeric, they came out so yellow. (I
>>>>>>>> used unbleached flour.) As for the doneness, there was an even,
>>>>>>>> brown crust all the way around it, that was almost cookie-like in
>>>>>>>> texture, about a millimeter thick. I layered it as he suggested on
>>>>>>>> TV, and as a result, they simply pulled apart like a biscuit-bun,
>>>>>>>> no need for a knife to cut it in half.
>>>>>>>> Once I get some more flour, I'm going to try buttermilk biscuits
>>>>>>>> again before it expires, using butter instead of shortening to
>>>>>>>> compare.
>>>>>>>> What is your experience with using butter versus shortening? So
>>>>>>>> far, I'm not impressed with shortening, but I may have to blame the
>>>>>>>> buttermilk if using butter in the next go-around results in the
>>>>>>>> same type of experience.
>>>>>>> I've never found butter to work well in biscuits. You get a crispy
>>>>>>> rather than soft biscuit. I don't like the heavy taste anyway as I
>>>>>>> put butter on the biscuits. I have always used lard or vegetable
>>>>>>> shortening. Lard makes the best biscuits IMO.
>>>>>>> Paul
>>>>>> Lard + buttermilk + soft wheat flour (like White Lily) make the
>>>>>> lightest and best biscuits.
>>>>> I can see I need to buy more lard. I am thinking I can use the
>>>>> recipe in James Beard's American Cookery, but with those ingredients.
>>>>> Yes?
>>>> Absolutely.
>>>>> Speaking of buttermilk... This is probably a stupid question, but
>>>>> is it possible to find real old-fashioned buttermilk anywhere in the
>>>>> Boston area?
>>>> Most of what you'll find in any city is cultured buttermilk, but
>>>> quality varies. I usually buy mine at TJ's or Sprouts. You'd probably
>>>> have to find a private dairy to get the "real thing", but good quality
>>>> cultured buttermilk works just fine.
>>>> Once you have some, you can perpetuate your supply by mixing up a quart
>>>> of non-fat dry milk, adding a cup of buttermilk and leaving it to set
>>>> on the counter overnight, or until it clabbers. Then shake well and
>>>> refrigerate. You can repeat this process indefinitely. Buttermilk
>>>> used for cooking purposes can be kept refrigerated for months without
>>>> spoiling.
>>> Cool! Thanks. I still would like to find the old-style
>>> buttermilk at least once in my lifetime.

>> Then you need raw milk where the cream hasn't been separated, and a churn.
>> You can buy tabletop churns. You get the best of both worlds, fresh butter
>> and fresh buttermilk. OTOH, if you drive out into the country where there
>> are small farms that keep a few cows, they may make small quantities for
>> themselves and might be wiling to part with some. Is there any Amish
>> country within your driving distance?
>>

> I was just going to sugget the same thing. (Well minus the Amish --
> I'don't think we have any around here.)
>
> We used to make our own butter occasionally and had buttermilk. I
> still shudder at the thought.
>
> John Kane, Kingston ON Canada


Uh-oh! You mean it's possibly better to think one wants this than
it would be to actually have it?

--
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Arri London wrote:
>
> "Jean B." wrote:
>> Arri London wrote:
>>> Christine Dabney wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 26 Jul 2009 23:47:11 GMT, "brooklyn1"
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Butter works as a shortening in pastry and sweet doughs but not in
>>>>> breads
>>>> Broche has a lot of butter, and it is what gives it much of it's
>>>> character. I think that is a bread..
>>>>
>>>> Christine
>>>>
>>> Plus people made bread with butter or lard long before solid veg
>>> shortenings were invented. They work perfectly for breads as well as
>>> sweetened doughs.
>>>
>>> We never have veg shortening in the house. The Maternal Unit likes the
>>> cheap tube biscuits which contain shortening plus too much baking
>>> powder. They have an aftertaste which isn't pleasant.
>>>
>>> Damaeus...your overly yellow biscuits may have had too much baking
>>> powder in them. That often will turn a dough yellowish.

>> I also don't use veg shortening. I'd rather use butter and/or
>> lard as in days of yore. I have eyed those tubes for years,
>> hoping the ingredients would change.
>>
>> --
>> Jean B.

>
>
> Not likely. Long shelf life and dreadfully convenient.


Fine, but then I will never buy them.

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> > and fresh buttermilk. *OTOH, if you drive out into the country where there
> > are small farms that keep a few cows, they may make small quantities for
> > themselves and might be wiling to part with some. *Is there any Amish
> > country within your driving distance?

>
> Probably not. *BUT this ties in with my growing desire to
> experience milk that is more like nature intended!
>
> --
> Jean B.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -


Unpasteurized milk? Let me know how the treatment for leptospirosis,
salmonella or tuberculosis works out.....

N.
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Nancy2 wrote:
>>> and fresh buttermilk. OTOH, if you drive out into the country where there
>>> are small farms that keep a few cows, they may make small quantities for
>>> themselves and might be wiling to part with some. Is there any Amish
>>> country within your driving distance?

>> Probably not. BUT this ties in with my growing desire to
>> experience milk that is more like nature intended!
>>
>> --
>> Jean B.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -

>
> Unpasteurized milk? Let me know how the treatment for leptospirosis,
> salmonella or tuberculosis works out.....
>
> N.


I don't know about unpasteurized--but unhomogenized, and
pasteurized in small batches.

--
Jean B.


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Default Shortening versus Butter in Homemade Biscuits

On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 10:26:10 -1000, dsi1 wrote:

> Bobo Bonobo® wrote:
>
>> Non-hydrogenated lard is nowhere near as bad for health as
>> hydrogenated oil.
>> The dominant fat in lard is monounsaturated.

>
> I agree that shortening is bad stuff, but please don't try to convince
> me that lard is a friend of ours. That's absurd!
>


every part of the noble pig is our friend.

your pal,
blake
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On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 10:58:06 -0400, Jean B. wrote:

> John Kane wrote:
>>
>> We used to make our own butter occasionally and had buttermilk. I
>> still shudder at the thought.
>>
>> John Kane, Kingston ON Canada

>
> Uh-oh! You mean it's possibly better to think one wants this than
> it would be to actually have it?


true of so many things in life.

your pal,
blake
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blake murphy wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 10:58:06 -0400, Jean B. wrote:
>
>> John Kane wrote:
>>> We used to make our own butter occasionally and had buttermilk. I
>>> still shudder at the thought.
>>>
>>> John Kane, Kingston ON Canada

>> Uh-oh! You mean it's possibly better to think one wants this than
>> it would be to actually have it?

>
> true of so many things in life.
>
> your pal,
> blake


You've noticed? So have I.

--
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Sheldon blathered:

> Brioche is technically a bread but in actuallity is more an eggy yeast
> cake like babka.


Brioche is egg bread. Challah is routinely substituted for brioche in
recipes which call for brioche. Are you now going to claim that challah is a
cake? Are you THAT stupid?


> Brioche is baked in a mold, like a cake, at a lower temperature than true
> breads, therefore the butter won't burn.


....except for when brioche is cooked as a loaf. Or when brioche dough is
formed into pocket or rolls, or used to encase salmon for coulibiac.

I bake brioche at 375°F, exactly the temperature at which I cook other
"true" bread loaves. Maybe you're confusing baking brioche with baking the
Digiorno pizza you make when you want a romantic evening with your NAMBLA
protégé.


> Brioche is more often baked with a filling (cheese) and is rarely used for
> sandwiches, it's more a dessert, served with a fruit preserve topping.


What do you mean "more often"? Please provide a cite for this bullshit.

Brioche fillings can include just about anything savory. Brioche pockets
filled with beef and mushrooms are awesome. Brioche rolls filled with duck
confit and mango are beyond awesome. _Baking With Julia_ recommends filling
them with a mixture of spiced mashed potatoes, asparagus, and peas.

You have never made brioche in your too-long life, you posturing clown, so
you should just shut the **** up about it.

Bob



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Christine Dabney wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 16:28:41 -0700, "Bob Terwilliger"
> > wrote:
>
>
>> Brioche fillings can include just about anything savory. Brioche pockets
>> filled with beef and mushrooms are awesome. Brioche rolls filled with duck
>> confit and mango are beyond awesome. _Baking With Julia_ recommends filling
>> them with a mixture of spiced mashed potatoes, asparagus, and peas.

>
> I sometimes make brioche to encase a smoked sausage. It is then baked,
> and served with a variety of good mustards. Always a hit.
>
> Christine


Do you have a recipe?

Bob


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On Wed 29 Jul 2009 07:57:22a, Jean B. told us...

> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>> On Tue 28 Jul 2009 05:59:12a, Jean B. told us...
>>
>>> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>>> On Tue 28 Jul 2009 05:22:07a, Jean B. told us...
>>>>
>>>>> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun 26 Jul 2009 08:24:53p, Paul M. Cook told us...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Damaeus" > wrote in message
>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>> I accidentally posted this first to rec.food-cooking....here's a
>>>>>>>> post for this group:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I like biscuits now and then, and I got the itch to have some a
>>>>>>>> while back when I was watching the Food Network and saw Tyler
>>>>>>>> Florence's version. He shocked me when he said to use vegetable
>>>>>>>> shortening, his reason being that he found that butter tends to
>>>>>>>> burn, while shortening doesn't.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Well, here's the recipe, first of all:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/t...ttermilk-biscu
>>>>>>>> it s- re cipe2/index.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Okay, I tried the recipe. I have to say they were not unedible,
>>>>>>>> but nowhere near the quality of biscuits I had made using butter
>>>>>>>> instead of shortening. These biscuits came out reminding me of
>>>>>>>> store-bought, canned biscuits. I blame the shortening, because
>>>>>>>> all shortening is, is hydrogenated and partially hydrogenated
>>>>>>>> oils. I was skeptical of them for that reason alone.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That said, I had normally made biscuits with plain whole milk,
>>>>>>>> not buttermilk. We normally don't keep buttermilk in the house,
>>>>>>>> but my roommate had a craving for fried chicken with buttermilk
>>>>>>>> batter, so since we had some left, I made buttermilk biscuits,
>>>>>>>> then buttermilk pancakes a few days later. The biscuits did rise
>>>>>>>> nicely, however.
>>>>>>>> But they turned out with a very yellow color inside, which
>>>>>>>> surprised me greatly. They were quite white going in, but you'd
>>>>>>>> think I'd laced them with turmeric, they came out so yellow. (I
>>>>>>>> used unbleached flour.) As for the doneness, there was an even,
>>>>>>>> brown crust all the way around it, that was almost cookie-like in
>>>>>>>> texture, about a millimeter thick. I layered it as he suggested
>>>>>>>> on TV, and as a result, they simply pulled apart like a
>>>>>>>> biscuit-bun, no need for a knife to cut it in half.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Once I get some more flour, I'm going to try buttermilk biscuits
>>>>>>>> again before it expires, using butter instead of shortening to
>>>>>>>> compare.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What is your experience with using butter versus shortening? So
>>>>>>>> far, I'm not impressed with shortening, but I may have to blame
>>>>>>>> the buttermilk if using butter in the next go-around results in
>>>>>>>> the same type of experience.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've never found butter to work well in biscuits. You get a
>>>>>>> crispy rather than soft biscuit. I don't like the heavy taste
>>>>>>> anyway as I put butter on the biscuits. I have always used lard
>>>>>>> or vegetable shortening. Lard makes the best biscuits IMO.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Paul
>>>>>> Lard + buttermilk + soft wheat flour (like White Lily) make the
>>>>>> lightest and best biscuits.
>>>>>>
>>>>> I can see I need to buy more lard. I am thinking I can use the
>>>>> recipe in James Beard's American Cookery, but with those
>>>>> ingredients. Yes?
>>>> Absolutely.
>>>>
>>>>> Speaking of buttermilk... This is probably a stupid question, but
>>>>> is it possible to find real old-fashioned buttermilk anywhere in
>>>>> the Boston area?
>>>> Most of what you'll find in any city is cultured buttermilk, but
>>>> quality varies. I usually buy mine at TJ's or Sprouts. You'd
>>>> probably have to find a private dairy to get the "real thing", but
>>>> good quality cultured buttermilk works just fine.
>>>>
>>>> Once you have some, you can perpetuate your supply by mixing up a
>>>> quart of non-fat dry milk, adding a cup of buttermilk and leaving it
>>>> to set on the counter overnight, or until it clabbers. Then shake
>>>> well and refrigerate. You can repeat this process indefinitely.
>>>> Buttermilk used for cooking purposes can be kept refrigerated for
>>>> months without spoiling.
>>>>
>>> Cool! Thanks. I still would like to find the old-style
>>> buttermilk at least once in my lifetime.
>>>

>>
>> Then you need raw milk where the cream hasn't been separated, and a
>> churn. You can buy tabletop churns. You get the best of both worlds,
>> fresh butter and fresh buttermilk. OTOH, if you drive out into the
>> country where there are small farms that keep a few cows, they may make
>> small quantities for themselves and might be wiling to part with some.
>> Is there any Amish country within your driving distance?
>>

> Probably not. BUT this ties in with my growing desire to
> experience milk that is more like nature intended!
>


Then you definitely need to buy a cow. :-)

--
Wayne Boatwright
------------------------------------------------------------------------
One cannot think well, love well, sleep well, if one has not dined
well. Virginia Woolf



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Default Shortening versus Butter in Homemade Biscuits

On Wed 29 Jul 2009 07:58:06a, Jean B. told us...

> John Kane wrote:
>> On Jul 28, 9:06 am, Wayne Boatwright >
>> wrote:
>>> On Tue 28 Jul 2009 05:59:12a, Jean B. told us...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>>>> On Tue 28 Jul 2009 05:22:07a, Jean B. told us...
>>>>>> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sun 26 Jul 2009 08:24:53p, Paul M. Cook told us...
>>>>>>>> "Damaeus" > wrote in message
>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>> I accidentally posted this first to rec.food-cooking....here's a
>>>>>>>>> post for this group:
>>>>>>>>> I like biscuits now and then, and I got the itch to have some a
>>>>>>>>> while back when I was watching the Food Network and saw Tyler
>>>>>>>>> Florence's version. He shocked me when he said to use vegetable
>>>>>>>>> shortening, his reason being that he found that butter tends to
>>>>>>>>> burn, while shortening doesn't.
>>>>>>>>> Well, here's the recipe, first of all:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/t...uttermilk-bisc
>>>>>>>>> uit s- re cipe2/index.html
>>>>>>>>> Okay, I tried the recipe. I have to say they were not unedible,
>>>>>>>>> but nowhere near the quality of biscuits I had made using butter
>>>>>>>>> instead of shortening. These biscuits came out reminding me of
>>>>>>>>> store-bought, canned biscuits. I blame the shortening, because
>>>>>>>>> all shortening is, is hydrogenated and partially hydrogenated
>>>>>>>>> oils. I was skeptical of them for that reason alone.
>>>>>>>>> That said, I had normally made biscuits with plain whole milk,
>>>>>>>>> not buttermilk. We normally don't keep buttermilk in the house,
>>>>>>>>> but my roommate had a craving for fried chicken with buttermilk
>>>>>>>>> batter, so since we had some left, I made buttermilk biscuits,
>>>>>>>>> then buttermilk pancakes a few days later. The biscuits did
>>>>>>>>> rise nicely, however.
>>>>>>>>> But they turned out with a very yellow color inside, which
>>>>>>>>> surprised me greatly. They were quite white going in, but you'd
>>>>>>>>> think I'd laced them with turmeric, they came out so yellow. (I
>>>>>>>>> used unbleached flour.) As for the doneness, there was an even,
>>>>>>>>> brown crust all the way around it, that was almost cookie-like
>>>>>>>>> in texture, about a millimeter thick. I layered it as he
>>>>>>>>> suggested on TV, and as a result, they simply pulled apart like
>>>>>>>>> a biscuit-bun, no need for a knife to cut it in half. Once I get
>>>>>>>>> some more flour, I'm going to try buttermilk biscuits again
>>>>>>>>> before it expires, using butter instead of shortening to
>>>>>>>>> compare. What is your experience with using butter versus
>>>>>>>>> shortening? So far, I'm not impressed with shortening, but I
>>>>>>>>> may have to blame the buttermilk if using butter in the next
>>>>>>>>> go-around results in the same type of experience.
>>>>>>>> I've never found butter to work well in biscuits. You get a
>>>>>>>> crispy rather than soft biscuit. I don't like the heavy taste
>>>>>>>> anyway as I put butter on the biscuits. I have always used lard
>>>>>>>> or vegetable shortening. Lard makes the best biscuits IMO.
>>>>>>>> Paul
>>>>>>> Lard + buttermilk + soft wheat flour (like White Lily) make the
>>>>>>> lightest and best biscuits.
>>>>>> I can see I need to buy more lard. I am thinking I can use the
>>>>>> recipe in James Beard's American Cookery, but with those
>>>>>> ingredients. Yes?
>>>>> Absolutely.
>>>>>> Speaking of buttermilk... This is probably a stupid question, but
>>>>>> is it possible to find real old-fashioned buttermilk anywhere in
>>>>>> the Boston area?
>>>>> Most of what you'll find in any city is cultured buttermilk, but
>>>>> quality varies. I usually buy mine at TJ's or Sprouts. You'd
>>>>> probably have to find a private dairy to get the "real thing", but
>>>>> good quality cultured buttermilk works just fine.
>>>>> Once you have some, you can perpetuate your supply by mixing up a
>>>>> quart of non-fat dry milk, adding a cup of buttermilk and leaving it
>>>>> to set on the counter overnight, or until it clabbers. Then shake
>>>>> well and refrigerate. You can repeat this process indefinitely.
>>>>> Buttermilk used for cooking purposes can be kept refrigerated for
>>>>> months without spoiling.
>>>> Cool! Thanks. I still would like to find the old-style buttermilk
>>>> at least once in my lifetime.
>>> Then you need raw milk where the cream hasn't been separated, and a
>>> churn. You can buy tabletop churns. You get the best of both worlds,
>>> fresh butter and fresh buttermilk. OTOH, if you drive out into the
>>> country where there are small farms that keep a few cows, they may
>>> make small quantities for themselves and might be wiling to part with
>>> some. Is there any Amish country within your driving distance?
>>>

>> I was just going to sugget the same thing. (Well minus the Amish --
>> I'don't think we have any around here.)
>>
>> We used to make our own butter occasionally and had buttermilk. I
>> still shudder at the thought.
>>
>> John Kane, Kingston ON Canada

>
> Uh-oh! You mean it's possibly better to think one wants this than
> it would be to actually have it?
>


I really love homemade butter and buttermilk. My dad's parents usually
kept three milk cows and my grandmother churned the butter also yielded the
buttermilk. At the time I would only drink that buttermilk, not the stuff
from the store.

I suppose it's all a matter of taste. I can't stand the taste of regular
homoginzed milk. I will cook withh it, but definitely never drink it.

--
Wayne Boatwright
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bread and butter, devoid of charm in the drawing room, is ambrosia
eating under a tree. Elizabeth Russell



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On Wed 29 Jul 2009 10:14:36a, Jean B. told us...

> Nancy2 wrote:
>>>> and fresh buttermilk. OTOH, if you drive out into the country where
>>>> there are small farms that keep a few cows, they may make small
>>>> quantities for themselves and might be wiling to part with some. Is
>>>> there any Amish country within your driving distance?
>>> Probably not. BUT this ties in with my growing desire to
>>> experience milk that is more like nature intended!
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jean B.- Hide quoted text -
>>>
>>> - Show quoted text -

>>
>> Unpasteurized milk? Let me know how the treatment for leptospirosis,
>> salmonella or tuberculosis works out.....
>>
>> N.

>
> I don't know about unpasteurized--but unhomogenized, and
> pasteurized in small batches.
>


Farm families have consumed unpasteurized homemade dairy products and don't
seem to have suffered from it.

--
Wayne Boatwright
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vegetables are interesting but lack a sense of purpose when
unaccompanied by a good cut of meat. Fran Lebowitz



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"Wayne Boatwright" > wrote

> Farm families have consumed unpasteurized homemade dairy products and
> don't
> seem to have suffered from it.



Did you see the movie "Deliverance"? That kid who was picking the banjo and
his kin... all farm folks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tqxzWdKKu8

I'm just saying.

George L

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In article >,
"George Leppla" > wrote:

> "Wayne Boatwright" > wrote
>
> > Farm families have consumed unpasteurized homemade dairy products and
> > don't
> > seem to have suffered from it.

>
>
> Did you see the movie "Deliverance"? That kid who was picking the banjo and
> his kin... all farm folks.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tqxzWdKKu8
>
> I'm just saying.
>
> George L


That was nice. :-) I'm going to have to rent that movie!
--
Peace! Om

Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass.
It's about learning to dance in the rain.
-- Anon.


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Wayne Boatwright wrote:
> On Wed 29 Jul 2009 07:57:22a, Jean B. told us...
>
>> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>> On Tue 28 Jul 2009 05:59:12a, Jean B. told us...
>>>
>>>> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>>>> On Tue 28 Jul 2009 05:22:07a, Jean B. told us...
>>>>>
>>>>>> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sun 26 Jul 2009 08:24:53p, Paul M. Cook told us...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Damaeus" > wrote in message
>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>> I accidentally posted this first to rec.food-cooking....here's a
>>>>>>>>> post for this group:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I like biscuits now and then, and I got the itch to have some a
>>>>>>>>> while back when I was watching the Food Network and saw Tyler
>>>>>>>>> Florence's version. He shocked me when he said to use vegetable
>>>>>>>>> shortening, his reason being that he found that butter tends to
>>>>>>>>> burn, while shortening doesn't.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Well, here's the recipe, first of all:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/t...ttermilk-biscu
>>>>>>>>> it s- re cipe2/index.html
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Okay, I tried the recipe. I have to say they were not unedible,
>>>>>>>>> but nowhere near the quality of biscuits I had made using butter
>>>>>>>>> instead of shortening. These biscuits came out reminding me of
>>>>>>>>> store-bought, canned biscuits. I blame the shortening, because
>>>>>>>>> all shortening is, is hydrogenated and partially hydrogenated
>>>>>>>>> oils. I was skeptical of them for that reason alone.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That said, I had normally made biscuits with plain whole milk,
>>>>>>>>> not buttermilk. We normally don't keep buttermilk in the house,
>>>>>>>>> but my roommate had a craving for fried chicken with buttermilk
>>>>>>>>> batter, so since we had some left, I made buttermilk biscuits,
>>>>>>>>> then buttermilk pancakes a few days later. The biscuits did rise
>>>>>>>>> nicely, however.
>>>>>>>>> But they turned out with a very yellow color inside, which
>>>>>>>>> surprised me greatly. They were quite white going in, but you'd
>>>>>>>>> think I'd laced them with turmeric, they came out so yellow. (I
>>>>>>>>> used unbleached flour.) As for the doneness, there was an even,
>>>>>>>>> brown crust all the way around it, that was almost cookie-like in
>>>>>>>>> texture, about a millimeter thick. I layered it as he suggested
>>>>>>>>> on TV, and as a result, they simply pulled apart like a
>>>>>>>>> biscuit-bun, no need for a knife to cut it in half.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Once I get some more flour, I'm going to try buttermilk biscuits
>>>>>>>>> again before it expires, using butter instead of shortening to
>>>>>>>>> compare.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What is your experience with using butter versus shortening? So
>>>>>>>>> far, I'm not impressed with shortening, but I may have to blame
>>>>>>>>> the buttermilk if using butter in the next go-around results in
>>>>>>>>> the same type of experience.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I've never found butter to work well in biscuits. You get a
>>>>>>>> crispy rather than soft biscuit. I don't like the heavy taste
>>>>>>>> anyway as I put butter on the biscuits. I have always used lard
>>>>>>>> or vegetable shortening. Lard makes the best biscuits IMO.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Paul
>>>>>>> Lard + buttermilk + soft wheat flour (like White Lily) make the
>>>>>>> lightest and best biscuits.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> I can see I need to buy more lard. I am thinking I can use the
>>>>>> recipe in James Beard's American Cookery, but with those
>>>>>> ingredients. Yes?
>>>>> Absolutely.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Speaking of buttermilk... This is probably a stupid question, but
>>>>>> is it possible to find real old-fashioned buttermilk anywhere in
>>>>>> the Boston area?
>>>>> Most of what you'll find in any city is cultured buttermilk, but
>>>>> quality varies. I usually buy mine at TJ's or Sprouts. You'd
>>>>> probably have to find a private dairy to get the "real thing", but
>>>>> good quality cultured buttermilk works just fine.
>>>>>
>>>>> Once you have some, you can perpetuate your supply by mixing up a
>>>>> quart of non-fat dry milk, adding a cup of buttermilk and leaving it
>>>>> to set on the counter overnight, or until it clabbers. Then shake
>>>>> well and refrigerate. You can repeat this process indefinitely.
>>>>> Buttermilk used for cooking purposes can be kept refrigerated for
>>>>> months without spoiling.
>>>>>
>>>> Cool! Thanks. I still would like to find the old-style
>>>> buttermilk at least once in my lifetime.
>>>>
>>> Then you need raw milk where the cream hasn't been separated, and a
>>> churn. You can buy tabletop churns. You get the best of both worlds,
>>> fresh butter and fresh buttermilk. OTOH, if you drive out into the
>>> country where there are small farms that keep a few cows, they may make
>>> small quantities for themselves and might be wiling to part with some.
>>> Is there any Amish country within your driving distance?
>>>

>> Probably not. BUT this ties in with my growing desire to
>> experience milk that is more like nature intended!
>>

>
> Then you definitely need to buy a cow. :-)
>

Oh but wait! Last night I put a query out on the local food ng,
and someone informed me that Annie's, which makes butter, now has
buttermilk. I went to three stores and found some. The odd thing
is that is sounds like it is a byproduct of their butter
operation, but it still says "cultured buttermilk". Soooo, I have
the lard and the buttermilk, and will get some White Lily flour
today. I MAY have seen it at one of the regular supermarkets
around here. I know I have seen it at Williams-Sonoma, although
unfortunately I didn't look for it when I was there recently.

I wonder, too, whether one could use pastry flour? I will try the
WL first, though.

--
Jean B.
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Default Shortening versus Butter in Homemade Biscuits

On Thu 30 Jul 2009 05:49:58a, Jean B. told us...

> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>> On Wed 29 Jul 2009 07:57:22a, Jean B. told us...
>>
>>> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>>> On Tue 28 Jul 2009 05:59:12a, Jean B. told us...
>>>>
>>>>> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>>>>> On Tue 28 Jul 2009 05:22:07a, Jean B. told us...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sun 26 Jul 2009 08:24:53p, Paul M. Cook told us...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Damaeus" > wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>>> I accidentally posted this first to rec.food-cooking....here's a
>>>>>>>>>> post for this group:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I like biscuits now and then, and I got the itch to have some a
>>>>>>>>>> while back when I was watching the Food Network and saw Tyler
>>>>>>>>>> Florence's version. He shocked me when he said to use vegetable
>>>>>>>>>> shortening, his reason being that he found that butter tends to
>>>>>>>>>> burn, while shortening doesn't.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Well, here's the recipe, first of all:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/t...ce/buttermilk-

biscu
>>>>>>>>>> it s- re cipe2/index.html
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Okay, I tried the recipe. I have to say they were not unedible,
>>>>>>>>>> but nowhere near the quality of biscuits I had made using butter
>>>>>>>>>> instead of shortening. These biscuits came out reminding me of
>>>>>>>>>> store-bought, canned biscuits. I blame the shortening, because
>>>>>>>>>> all shortening is, is hydrogenated and partially hydrogenated
>>>>>>>>>> oils. I was skeptical of them for that reason alone.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> That said, I had normally made biscuits with plain whole milk,

not
>>>>>>>>>> buttermilk. We normally don't keep buttermilk in the house, but
>>>>>>>>>> my roommate had a craving for fried chicken with buttermilk
>>>>>>>>>> batter, so since we had some left, I made buttermilk biscuits,
>>>>>>>>>> then buttermilk pancakes a few days later. The biscuits did

rise
>>>>>>>>>> nicely, however.
>>>>>>>>>> But they turned out with a very yellow color inside, which
>>>>>>>>>> surprised me greatly. They were quite white going in, but you'd
>>>>>>>>>> think I'd laced them with turmeric, they came out so yellow. (I
>>>>>>>>>> used unbleached flour.) As for the doneness, there was an even,
>>>>>>>>>> brown crust all the way around it, that was almost cookie-like

in
>>>>>>>>>> texture, about a millimeter thick. I layered it as he suggested
>>>>>>>>>> on TV, and as a result, they simply pulled apart like a
>>>>>>>>>> biscuit-bun, no need for a knife to cut it in half.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Once I get some more flour, I'm going to try buttermilk biscuits
>>>>>>>>>> again before it expires, using butter instead of shortening to
>>>>>>>>>> compare.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> What is your experience with using butter versus shortening? So
>>>>>>>>>> far, I'm not impressed with shortening, but I may have to blame
>>>>>>>>>> the buttermilk if using butter in the next go-around results in
>>>>>>>>>> the same type of experience.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I've never found butter to work well in biscuits. You get a
>>>>>>>>> crispy rather than soft biscuit. I don't like the heavy taste
>>>>>>>>> anyway as I put butter on the biscuits. I have always used lard
>>>>>>>>> or vegetable shortening. Lard makes the best biscuits IMO.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Paul
>>>>>>>> Lard + buttermilk + soft wheat flour (like White Lily) make the
>>>>>>>> lightest and best biscuits.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I can see I need to buy more lard. I am thinking I can use the
>>>>>>> recipe in James Beard's American Cookery, but with those
>>>>>>> ingredients. Yes?
>>>>>> Absolutely.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Speaking of buttermilk... This is probably a stupid question, but
>>>>>>> is it possible to find real old-fashioned buttermilk anywhere in

the
>>>>>>> Boston area?
>>>>>> Most of what you'll find in any city is cultured buttermilk, but
>>>>>> quality varies. I usually buy mine at TJ's or Sprouts. You'd
>>>>>> probably have to find a private dairy to get the "real thing", but
>>>>>> good quality cultured buttermilk works just fine.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Once you have some, you can perpetuate your supply by mixing up a
>>>>>> quart of non-fat dry milk, adding a cup of buttermilk and leaving it
>>>>>> to set on the counter overnight, or until it clabbers. Then shake
>>>>>> well and refrigerate. You can repeat this process indefinitely.
>>>>>> Buttermilk used for cooking purposes can be kept refrigerated for
>>>>>> months without spoiling.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Cool! Thanks. I still would like to find the old-style
>>>>> buttermilk at least once in my lifetime.
>>>>>
>>>> Then you need raw milk where the cream hasn't been separated, and a
>>>> churn. You can buy tabletop churns. You get the best of both worlds,
>>>> fresh butter and fresh buttermilk. OTOH, if you drive out into the
>>>> country where there are small farms that keep a few cows, they may

make
>>>> small quantities for themselves and might be wiling to part with some.
>>>> Is there any Amish country within your driving distance?
>>>>
>>> Probably not. BUT this ties in with my growing desire to
>>> experience milk that is more like nature intended!
>>>

>>
>> Then you definitely need to buy a cow. :-)
>>

> Oh but wait! Last night I put a query out on the local food ng,
> and someone informed me that Annie's, which makes butter, now has
> buttermilk. I went to three stores and found some. The odd thing
> is that is sounds like it is a byproduct of their butter
> operation, but it still says "cultured buttermilk". Soooo, I have
> the lard and the buttermilk, and will get some White Lily flour
> today. I MAY have seen it at one of the regular supermarkets
> around here. I know I have seen it at Williams-Sonoma, although
> unfortunately I didn't look for it when I was there recently.


Good collecting!

> I wonder, too, whether one could use pastry flour? I will try the
> WL first, though.


If you use pastry flour, mix in about 1/3 all-purpose flour. Pastry flour
is milled more finely and from an even softer wheat than White Lily.



--
Wayne Boatwright
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sugar is a type of bodily fuel, yes, but your body runs about as
well on it as a car would. V.L. Allineare



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Default Shortening versus Butter in Homemade Biscuits

On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 17:38:12 -0600, Christine Dabney wrote:

> On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 16:28:41 -0700, "Bob Terwilliger"
> > wrote:
>
>>Brioche fillings can include just about anything savory. Brioche pockets
>>filled with beef and mushrooms are awesome. Brioche rolls filled with duck
>>confit and mango are beyond awesome. _Baking With Julia_ recommends filling
>>them with a mixture of spiced mashed potatoes, asparagus, and peas.

>
> I sometimes make brioche to encase a smoked sausage. It is then baked,
> and served with a variety of good mustards. Always a hit.
>
> Christine


pigs in really nice blankets.

your pal,
blake
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Default Shortening versus Butter in Homemade Biscuits

Wayne Boatwright wrote:
> On Thu 30 Jul 2009 05:49:58a, Jean B. told us...
>
>> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>> On Wed 29 Jul 2009 07:57:22a, Jean B. told us...
>>>
>>>> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>>>> On Tue 28 Jul 2009 05:59:12a, Jean B. told us...
>>>>>
>>>>>> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>>>>>> On Tue 28 Jul 2009 05:22:07a, Jean B. told us...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Sun 26 Jul 2009 08:24:53p, Paul M. Cook told us...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Damaeus" > wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>>>> I accidentally posted this first to rec.food-cooking....here's a
>>>>>>>>>>> post for this group:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I like biscuits now and then, and I got the itch to have some a
>>>>>>>>>>> while back when I was watching the Food Network and saw Tyler
>>>>>>>>>>> Florence's version. He shocked me when he said to use vegetable
>>>>>>>>>>> shortening, his reason being that he found that butter tends to
>>>>>>>>>>> burn, while shortening doesn't.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Well, here's the recipe, first of all:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/t...ce/buttermilk-

> biscu
>>>>>>>>>>> it s- re cipe2/index.html
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Okay, I tried the recipe. I have to say they were not unedible,
>>>>>>>>>>> but nowhere near the quality of biscuits I had made using butter
>>>>>>>>>>> instead of shortening. These biscuits came out reminding me of
>>>>>>>>>>> store-bought, canned biscuits. I blame the shortening, because
>>>>>>>>>>> all shortening is, is hydrogenated and partially hydrogenated
>>>>>>>>>>> oils. I was skeptical of them for that reason alone.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> That said, I had normally made biscuits with plain whole milk,

> not
>>>>>>>>>>> buttermilk. We normally don't keep buttermilk in the house, but
>>>>>>>>>>> my roommate had a craving for fried chicken with buttermilk
>>>>>>>>>>> batter, so since we had some left, I made buttermilk biscuits,
>>>>>>>>>>> then buttermilk pancakes a few days later. The biscuits did

> rise
>>>>>>>>>>> nicely, however.
>>>>>>>>>>> But they turned out with a very yellow color inside, which
>>>>>>>>>>> surprised me greatly. They were quite white going in, but you'd
>>>>>>>>>>> think I'd laced them with turmeric, they came out so yellow. (I
>>>>>>>>>>> used unbleached flour.) As for the doneness, there was an even,
>>>>>>>>>>> brown crust all the way around it, that was almost cookie-like

> in
>>>>>>>>>>> texture, about a millimeter thick. I layered it as he suggested
>>>>>>>>>>> on TV, and as a result, they simply pulled apart like a
>>>>>>>>>>> biscuit-bun, no need for a knife to cut it in half.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Once I get some more flour, I'm going to try buttermilk biscuits
>>>>>>>>>>> again before it expires, using butter instead of shortening to
>>>>>>>>>>> compare.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> What is your experience with using butter versus shortening? So
>>>>>>>>>>> far, I'm not impressed with shortening, but I may have to blame
>>>>>>>>>>> the buttermilk if using butter in the next go-around results in
>>>>>>>>>>> the same type of experience.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I've never found butter to work well in biscuits. You get a
>>>>>>>>>> crispy rather than soft biscuit. I don't like the heavy taste
>>>>>>>>>> anyway as I put butter on the biscuits. I have always used lard
>>>>>>>>>> or vegetable shortening. Lard makes the best biscuits IMO.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Paul
>>>>>>>>> Lard + buttermilk + soft wheat flour (like White Lily) make the
>>>>>>>>> lightest and best biscuits.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I can see I need to buy more lard. I am thinking I can use the
>>>>>>>> recipe in James Beard's American Cookery, but with those
>>>>>>>> ingredients. Yes?
>>>>>>> Absolutely.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Speaking of buttermilk... This is probably a stupid question, but
>>>>>>>> is it possible to find real old-fashioned buttermilk anywhere in

> the
>>>>>>>> Boston area?
>>>>>>> Most of what you'll find in any city is cultured buttermilk, but
>>>>>>> quality varies. I usually buy mine at TJ's or Sprouts. You'd
>>>>>>> probably have to find a private dairy to get the "real thing", but
>>>>>>> good quality cultured buttermilk works just fine.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Once you have some, you can perpetuate your supply by mixing up a
>>>>>>> quart of non-fat dry milk, adding a cup of buttermilk and leaving it
>>>>>>> to set on the counter overnight, or until it clabbers. Then shake
>>>>>>> well and refrigerate. You can repeat this process indefinitely.
>>>>>>> Buttermilk used for cooking purposes can be kept refrigerated for
>>>>>>> months without spoiling.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cool! Thanks. I still would like to find the old-style
>>>>>> buttermilk at least once in my lifetime.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Then you need raw milk where the cream hasn't been separated, and a
>>>>> churn. You can buy tabletop churns. You get the best of both worlds,
>>>>> fresh butter and fresh buttermilk. OTOH, if you drive out into the
>>>>> country where there are small farms that keep a few cows, they may

> make
>>>>> small quantities for themselves and might be wiling to part with some.
>>>>> Is there any Amish country within your driving distance?
>>>>>
>>>> Probably not. BUT this ties in with my growing desire to
>>>> experience milk that is more like nature intended!
>>>>
>>> Then you definitely need to buy a cow. :-)
>>>

>> Oh but wait! Last night I put a query out on the local food ng,
>> and someone informed me that Annie's, which makes butter, now has
>> buttermilk. I went to three stores and found some. The odd thing
>> is that is sounds like it is a byproduct of their butter
>> operation, but it still says "cultured buttermilk". Soooo, I have
>> the lard and the buttermilk, and will get some White Lily flour
>> today. I MAY have seen it at one of the regular supermarkets
>> around here. I know I have seen it at Williams-Sonoma, although
>> unfortunately I didn't look for it when I was there recently.

>
> Good collecting!
>
>> I wonder, too, whether one could use pastry flour? I will try the
>> WL first, though.

>
> If you use pastry flour, mix in about 1/3 all-purpose flour. Pastry flour
> is milled more finely and from an even softer wheat than White Lily.
>
>


(I am waiting for my daughter to go out before I go out looking
for WL.)

Thanks, Wayne. I have been looking at the White Lily website and
note that they say an additional 2 Tbsps WL flour should be used
per cup if subbing for AP flour.

I was also looking at recipes for biscuits, which I will compare
with my standard (from James Beard's American Cookery).

--
Jean B.
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Default Shortening versus Butter in Homemade Biscuits

On Thu 30 Jul 2009 09:13:05a, Jean B. told us...

> (I am waiting for my daughter to go out before I go out looking
> for WL.)
>
> Thanks, Wayne. I have been looking at the White Lily website and
> note that they say an additional 2 Tbsps WL flour should be used
> per cup if subbing for AP flour.
>
> I was also looking at recipes for biscuits, which I will compare
> with my standard (from James Beard's American Cookery).
>


This is the recipe I use, Jean. I've had it so long that I don't remember
where it came from.

Fluffy Buttermilk Biscuits

2 C. White Lily Flour
1 1/2 t. baking powder
1/2 t. baking soda
1/2 t. salt
1/4 C. leaf lard, cut into small chunks
3/4 C. buttermilk

1. Preheat oven to 500 degrees

2. Prepare ingredients: Cut lard into small chunks, place in a bowl and
return to fridge. Measure out buttermilk and set aside. Sprinkle flour on a
work surface and have extra flour nearby for your hands and biscuit cutter.
Have biscuit cutter and an ungreased baking sheet handy

3. Mix dough: In a medium-large bowl, whisk together flours, baking powder,
baking soda and salt until very well blended. Add lard and cut into flour
using a pastry blender, two knives or your fingertips, until mixture
resembles coarse crumbs. Pour in buttermilk and stir lightly until dough
comes together in a ball.

4. Knead dough and cut biscuits: Dump dough mixture out onto floured work
surface. With floured hands, lightly knead dough a few times until it is
fairly well blended. Pat out into a circle, 3/4 - 1 inch thick. Dip cutter
into flour and cut biscuits without twisting the cutter. Form the dough
scraps into an extra biscuit-like shape instead of re-rolling the dough.
Place cut biscuits together on the baking sheet so that the sides are
touching. Brush tops with melted butter, if desired.

5. Bake biscuits: place baking sheet in the middle of a preheated 500
degree oven and bake for 8-10 minutes until they are golden brown. Remove
biscuits to a wire rack to cool for a few minutes.

Note 1: You may brush the tops of the unbaked biscuits with softened
butter if you wish.

Note 2: If using White Lily Self-Rising Flour, omit leavening and salt
from recipe.
__________________________________________________ _____________________

Here's some additional information about flour:

Cake flours (Swans Down, Softasilk):
7.5 to 8.5% protein

Bleached southern all-purpose (White Lily, Martha White, Gladiola, Red
Band):
7.5 to 9.5% protein

National brand self-rising (Gold Medal, Pillsbury):
9 to 10% protein

National brand bleached all-purpose (Gold Medal, Pillsbury):
10 to 12% protein

Northern all-purpose (Robin Hood, Hecker’s):
11 to 12% protein

Northern unbleached all-purpose (King Arthur):
11.7% protein

Bread Flour:
11.5 to 12.5% protein

--
Wayne Boatwright
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sharing food with another human being is an intimate act that
should not be indulged in lightly. M. F. K. Fisher





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Default Shortening versus Butter in Homemade Biscuits

Wayne Boatwright wrote:
> On Thu 30 Jul 2009 09:13:05a, Jean B. told us...
>
>> (I am waiting for my daughter to go out before I go out looking
>> for WL.)
>>
>> Thanks, Wayne. I have been looking at the White Lily website and
>> note that they say an additional 2 Tbsps WL flour should be used
>> per cup if subbing for AP flour.
>>
>> I was also looking at recipes for biscuits, which I will compare
>> with my standard (from James Beard's American Cookery).
>>

>
> This is the recipe I use, Jean. I've had it so long that I don't remember
> where it came from.
>
> Fluffy Buttermilk Biscuits
>
> 2 C. White Lily Flour
> 1 1/2 t. baking powder
> 1/2 t. baking soda
> 1/2 t. salt
> 1/4 C. leaf lard, cut into small chunks
> 3/4 C. buttermilk
>
> 1. Preheat oven to 500 degrees
>
> 2. Prepare ingredients: Cut lard into small chunks, place in a bowl and
> return to fridge. Measure out buttermilk and set aside. Sprinkle flour on a
> work surface and have extra flour nearby for your hands and biscuit cutter.
> Have biscuit cutter and an ungreased baking sheet handy
>
> 3. Mix dough: In a medium-large bowl, whisk together flours, baking powder,
> baking soda and salt until very well blended. Add lard and cut into flour
> using a pastry blender, two knives or your fingertips, until mixture
> resembles coarse crumbs. Pour in buttermilk and stir lightly until dough
> comes together in a ball.
>
> 4. Knead dough and cut biscuits: Dump dough mixture out onto floured work
> surface. With floured hands, lightly knead dough a few times until it is
> fairly well blended. Pat out into a circle, 3/4 - 1 inch thick. Dip cutter
> into flour and cut biscuits without twisting the cutter. Form the dough
> scraps into an extra biscuit-like shape instead of re-rolling the dough.
> Place cut biscuits together on the baking sheet so that the sides are
> touching. Brush tops with melted butter, if desired.
>
> 5. Bake biscuits: place baking sheet in the middle of a preheated 500
> degree oven and bake for 8-10 minutes until they are golden brown. Remove
> biscuits to a wire rack to cool for a few minutes.
>
> Note 1: You may brush the tops of the unbaked biscuits with softened
> butter if you wish.
>
> Note 2: If using White Lily Self-Rising Flour, omit leavening and salt
> from recipe.
> __________________________________________________ _____________________
>
> Here's some additional information about flour:
>
> Cake flours (Swans Down, Softasilk):
> 7.5 to 8.5% protein
>
> Bleached southern all-purpose (White Lily, Martha White, Gladiola, Red
> Band):
> 7.5 to 9.5% protein
>
> National brand self-rising (Gold Medal, Pillsbury):
> 9 to 10% protein
>
> National brand bleached all-purpose (Gold Medal, Pillsbury):
> 10 to 12% protein
>
> Northern all-purpose (Robin Hood, Hecker’s):
> 11 to 12% protein
>
> Northern unbleached all-purpose (King Arthur):
> 11.7% protein
>
> Bread Flour:
> 11.5 to 12.5% protein
>

Thanks for the recipe and now for the information on the flour
too. It turns out that a) I couldn't find the White Lily, so now
I have a query out on that too; and b) that the AP flour I have is
about as far away as possible from White Lily as far as protein
goes. It does look like I'd be wise to blend that AP with pastry
flour.

--
Jean B.
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Default Shortening versus Butter in Homemade Biscuits

On Thu 30 Jul 2009 02:30:25p, Jean B. told us...

> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>> On Thu 30 Jul 2009 09:13:05a, Jean B. told us...
>>
>>> (I am waiting for my daughter to go out before I go out looking
>>> for WL.)
>>>
>>> Thanks, Wayne. I have been looking at the White Lily website and
>>> note that they say an additional 2 Tbsps WL flour should be used
>>> per cup if subbing for AP flour.
>>>
>>> I was also looking at recipes for biscuits, which I will compare
>>> with my standard (from James Beard's American Cookery).
>>>

>>
>> This is the recipe I use, Jean. I've had it so long that I don't
>> remember where it came from.
>>
>> Fluffy Buttermilk Biscuits
>>
>> 2 C. White Lily Flour
>> 1 1/2 t. baking powder
>> 1/2 t. baking soda
>> 1/2 t. salt
>> 1/4 C. leaf lard, cut into small chunks
>> 3/4 C. buttermilk
>>
>> 1. Preheat oven to 500 degrees
>>
>> 2. Prepare ingredients: Cut lard into small chunks, place in a bowl and
>> return to fridge. Measure out buttermilk and set aside. Sprinkle flour
>> on a work surface and have extra flour nearby for your hands and
>> biscuit cutter. Have biscuit cutter and an ungreased baking sheet handy
>>
>> 3. Mix dough: In a medium-large bowl, whisk together flours, baking
>> powder, baking soda and salt until very well blended. Add lard and cut
>> into flour using a pastry blender, two knives or your fingertips, until
>> mixture resembles coarse crumbs. Pour in buttermilk and stir lightly
>> until dough comes together in a ball.
>>
>> 4. Knead dough and cut biscuits: Dump dough mixture out onto floured
>> work surface. With floured hands, lightly knead dough a few times until
>> it is fairly well blended. Pat out into a circle, 3/4 - 1 inch thick.
>> Dip cutter into flour and cut biscuits without twisting the cutter.
>> Form the dough scraps into an extra biscuit-like shape instead of
>> re-rolling the dough. Place cut biscuits together on the baking sheet
>> so that the sides are touching. Brush tops with melted butter, if
>> desired.
>>
>> 5. Bake biscuits: place baking sheet in the middle of a preheated 500
>> degree oven and bake for 8-10 minutes until they are golden brown.
>> Remove biscuits to a wire rack to cool for a few minutes.
>>
>> Note 1: You may brush the tops of the unbaked biscuits with softened
>> butter if you wish.
>>
>> Note 2: If using White Lily Self-Rising Flour, omit leavening and salt
>> from recipe.
>> __________________________________________________ _____________________
>>
>> Here's some additional information about flour:
>>
>> Cake flours (Swans Down, Softasilk):
>> 7.5 to 8.5% protein
>>
>> Bleached southern all-purpose (White Lily, Martha White, Gladiola, Red
>> Band):
>> 7.5 to 9.5% protein
>>
>> National brand self-rising (Gold Medal, Pillsbury):
>> 9 to 10% protein
>>
>> National brand bleached all-purpose (Gold Medal, Pillsbury):
>> 10 to 12% protein
>>
>> Northern all-purpose (Robin Hood, Hecker’s):
>> 11 to 12% protein
>>
>> Northern unbleached all-purpose (King Arthur):
>> 11.7% protein
>>
>> Bread Flour:
>> 11.5 to 12.5% protein
>>

> Thanks for the recipe and now for the information on the flour
> too. It turns out that a) I couldn't find the White Lily, so now
> I have a query out on that too; and b) that the AP flour I have is
> about as far away as possible from White Lily as far as protein
> goes. It does look like I'd be wise to blend that AP with pastry
> flour.
>


That should work fine. You may find that different ratios of pastry to AP
work best for you, through trial and error.

--
Wayne Boatwright
------------------------------------------------------------------------
The secret of staying young is to live honestly, eat slowly, and
lie about your age. Lucille Ball



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Default Shortening versus Butter in Homemade Biscuits

On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 11:51:18 GMT, in rec.food.cooking, brooklyn1 wrote:

>
>>> Arri London wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Christine Dabney wrote:
>>> >> On Sun, 26 Jul 2009 23:47:11 GMT, "brooklyn1"
>>> >> Brooklyn1 wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>> Butter works as a shortening in pastry and sweet doughs but not in
>>> >>> breads
>>> >> Broche has a lot of butter, and it is what gives it much of it's
>>> >> character. I think that is a bread..
>>> >>
>>> >> Christine

>
>Brioche is technically a bread but in actuallity is more an eggy yeast cake
>like babka. Brioche is baked in a mold, like a cake, at a lower temperature
>than true breads, therefore the butter won't burn. Brioche is more often
>baked with a filling (cheese) and is rarely used for sandwiches, it's more a
>dessert, served with a fruit preserve topping.
>


Speaking from experience of eating many brioche in the UK and Europe, I
disagree that it is more often baked with a filling.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brioche is in this case pretty good.

http://www.joepastry.com/index.php?b...page=1&paged=2
has a great picture of what to me is a typical brioche (made with two
balls of dough) and a great way to use it.
In the UK the most common way brioche is sold in supermarkets is as a
loaf, which you either eat as you would any bread or use as sandwich
bread, for french toast, etc.
http://tinyurl.com/mrhwor

A BBC recipe:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/food/recipes/da...che_1029.shtml

Doug
--
Doug Weller --
A Director and Moderator of The Hall of Ma'at http://www.hallofmaat.com
Doug's Archaeology Site: http://www.ramtops.co.uk
Amun - co-owner/co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Amun/

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Default Shortening versus Butter in Homemade Biscuits


"Doug Weller" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 11:51:18 GMT, in rec.food.cooking, brooklyn1 wrote:
>
>>
>>>> Arri London wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > Christine Dabney wrote:
>>>> >> On Sun, 26 Jul 2009 23:47:11 GMT, "brooklyn1"
>>>> >> Brooklyn1 wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> Butter works as a shortening in pastry and sweet doughs but not in
>>>> >>> breads
>>>> >> Broche has a lot of butter, and it is what gives it much of it's
>>>> >> character. I think that is a bread..
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Christine

>>
>>Brioche is technically a bread but in actuallity is more an eggy yeast
>>cake
>>like babka. Brioche is baked in a mold, like a cake, at a lower
>>temperature
>>than true breads, therefore the butter won't burn. Brioche is more often
>>baked with a filling (cheese) and is rarely used for sandwiches, it's more
>>a
>>dessert, served with a fruit preserve topping.
>>

>
> Speaking from experience of eating many brioche in the UK...


Eating in the UK... Ahahahahahahahahahahaha. . . . it's pronounced OooKy for
a reason.






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Default Shortening versus Butter in Homemade Biscuits



Doug Weller wrote:
>
> On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 11:51:18 GMT, in rec.food.cooking, brooklyn1 wrote:
>
> >
> >>> Arri London wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> > Christine Dabney wrote:
> >>> >> On Sun, 26 Jul 2009 23:47:11 GMT, "brooklyn1"
> >>> >> Brooklyn1 wrote:
> >>> >>
> >>> >>> Butter works as a shortening in pastry and sweet doughs but not in
> >>> >>> breads
> >>> >> Broche has a lot of butter, and it is what gives it much of it's
> >>> >> character. I think that is a bread..
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Christine

> >
> >Brioche is technically a bread but in actuallity is more an eggy yeast cake
> >like babka. Brioche is baked in a mold, like a cake, at a lower temperature
> >than true breads, therefore the butter won't burn. Brioche is more often
> >baked with a filling (cheese) and is rarely used for sandwiches, it's more a
> >dessert, served with a fruit preserve topping.
> >

>
> Speaking from experience of eating many brioche in the UK and Europe, I
> disagree that it is more often baked with a filling.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brioche is in this case pretty good.
>
> http://www.joepastry.com/index.php?b...page=1&paged=2
> has a great picture of what to me is a typical brioche (made with two
> balls of dough) and a great way to use it.
> In the UK the most common way brioche is sold in supermarkets is as a
> loaf, which you either eat as you would any bread or use as sandwich
> bread, for french toast, etc.
> http://tinyurl.com/mrhwor
>
> A BBC recipe:
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/food/recipes/da...che_1029.shtml
>
> Doug



With you on that one. Have not yet seen brioche in the UK or France
baked with a filling. People may do it at home though.


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Default Shortening versus Butter in Homemade Biscuits

On Fri, 31 Jul 2009 14:44:24 GMT, in rec.food.cooking, brooklyn1 wrote:

>
>"Doug Weller" > wrote in message
.. .
>> On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 11:51:18 GMT, in rec.food.cooking, brooklyn1 wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>>> Arri London wrote:
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Christine Dabney wrote:
>>>>> >> On Sun, 26 Jul 2009 23:47:11 GMT, "brooklyn1"
>>>>> >> Brooklyn1 wrote:
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>> Butter works as a shortening in pastry and sweet doughs but not in
>>>>> >>> breads
>>>>> >> Broche has a lot of butter, and it is what gives it much of it's
>>>>> >> character. I think that is a bread..
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Christine
>>>
>>>Brioche is technically a bread but in actuallity is more an eggy yeast
>>>cake
>>>like babka. Brioche is baked in a mold, like a cake, at a lower
>>>temperature
>>>than true breads, therefore the butter won't burn. Brioche is more often
>>>baked with a filling (cheese) and is rarely used for sandwiches, it's more
>>>a
>>>dessert, served with a fruit preserve topping.
>>>

>>
>> Speaking from experience of eating many brioche in the UK...

>
>Eating in the UK... Ahahahahahahahahahahaha. . . . it's pronounced OooKy for
>a reason.


You're living in the past. That was true when I first came here in 1970,
but today London is one of the food capitals of the world.

Doug
--
Doug Weller --
A Director and Moderator of The Hall of Ma'at http://www.hallofmaat.com
Doug's Archaeology Site: http://www.ramtops.co.uk
Amun - co-owner/co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Amun/

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Default Shortening versus Butter in Homemade Biscuits


> On Fri, 31 Jul 2009 14:44:24 GMT, in rec.food.cooking, brooklyn1 wrote:


>>Eating in the UK... Ahahahahahahahahahahaha. . . . it's pronounced OooKy
>>for
>>a reason.


Sounds like someone who hasn't dined in the UK since his porridge days.

Felice


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On Mon 03 Aug 2009 11:35:46a, Doug Weller told us...

> On Fri, 31 Jul 2009 14:44:24 GMT, in rec.food.cooking, brooklyn1 wrote:
>
>>
>>"Doug Weller" > wrote in message
. ..
>>> On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 11:51:18 GMT, in rec.food.cooking, brooklyn1
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> Arri London wrote:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Christine Dabney wrote:
>>>>>> >> On Sun, 26 Jul 2009 23:47:11 GMT, "brooklyn1"
>>>>>> >> Brooklyn1 wrote:
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>> Butter works as a shortening in pastry and sweet doughs but not
>>>>>> >>> in breads
>>>>>> >> Broche has a lot of butter, and it is what gives it much of it's
>>>>>> >> character. I think that is a bread..
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> Christine
>>>>
>>>>Brioche is technically a bread but in actuallity is more an eggy yeast
>>>>cake like babka. Brioche is baked in a mold, like a cake, at a lower
>>>>temperature than true breads, therefore the butter won't burn.
>>>>Brioche is more often baked with a filling (cheese) and is rarely used
>>>>for sandwiches, it's more a dessert, served with a fruit preserve
>>>>topping.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Speaking from experience of eating many brioche in the UK...

>>
>>Eating in the UK... Ahahahahahahahahahahaha. . . . it's pronounced OooKy
>>for a reason.

>
> You're living in the past. That was true when I first came here in 1970,
> but today London is one of the food capitals of the world.
>
> Doug


He's living in a mythical bubble of his own creation that does not follow
the laws of anything earthly.

--
Wayne Boatwright
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not sure what makes pepperoni so good if it's the pepper or
the oni. Ulrik Stephens



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On Mon, 03 Aug 2009 19:35:46 +0100, Doug Weller
> wrote:

>You're living in the past. That was true when I first came here in 1970,
>but today London is one of the food capitals of the world.


I concur, having been there just a couple of years ago.

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.
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On Jul 29, 12:36*pm, blake murphy > wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 10:26:10 -1000, dsi1 wrote:
> > Bobo Bonobo® wrote:

>
> >> Non-hydrogenated lard is nowhere near as bad for health as
> >> hydrogenated oil.
> >> The dominant fat in lard is monounsaturated.

>
> > I agree that shortening is bad stuff, but please don't try to convince
> > me that lard is a friend of ours. That's absurd!

>
> every part of the noble pig is our friend.


See Blake, we do agree on some points.
>
> your pal,
> blake


--Bryan
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