I just picked up a seldom used 4.5qt Kitchenaid Classic Stand Mixer for
$75. I always wanted a larger one (like the Pro 5) but for this much
scratch and for just one person, I think i did ok for now. Maybe
someday I'll upgrade and pass this one on.

My ex (one of the girls who don't cook these days) had one of these, and
I employed it all winter long making various breads. You don't save any
money making your own bread, but it always tastes better than
store-bought, and I enjoy doing it. Plus you can make all kinds of neat
stuff (jalapeno-cheddar bread, etc) that is hard to buy.

Here's yet another reason to love Craigslist. Now all I need is an
enameled Dutch Oven and I think i'll be set for awhile, regarding
kitchen equipment.

-J

phaeton said...

> I just picked up a seldom used 4.5qt Kitchenaid Classic Stand Mixer for
> $75. I always wanted a larger one (like the Pro 5) but for this much
> scratch and for just one person, I think i did ok for now. Maybe
> someday I'll upgrade and pass this one on.


phaeton,

If I'm not mistaken, KA will fix those things (internals) forever! Not sure
about external parts.

Ring them up and double check.

Andy
--
"I only know what I read. NOT what I'm talking about!"
--Andy

phaeton wrote:
> I just picked up a seldom used 4.5qt Kitchenaid Classic Stand Mixer
> for $75. I always wanted a larger one (like the Pro 5) but for this
> much scratch and for just one person, I think i did ok for now. Maybe
> someday I'll upgrade and pass this one on.
>
> My ex (one of the girls who don't cook these days) had one of these,
> and I employed it all winter long making various breads. You don't
> save any money making your own bread, but it always tastes better than
> store-bought, and I enjoy doing it. Plus you can make all kinds of
> neat stuff (jalapeno-cheddar bread, etc) that is hard to buy.
>
> Here's yet another reason to love Craigslist. Now all I need is an
> enameled Dutch Oven and I think i'll be set for awhile, regarding
> kitchen equipment.
>
> -J

Glad you found the "previously used" KitchenAid mixer. One of my
friends rarely cooks and she never bakes, so I wonder why she is keeping
hers. Enjoy your new mixer.


Becca

On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 19:18:59 -0500, Andy wrote:

> phaeton said...
>
>> I just picked up a seldom used 4.5qt Kitchenaid Classic Stand Mixer for
>> $75. I always wanted a larger one (like the Pro 5) but for this much
>> scratch and for just one person, I think i did ok for now. Maybe
>> someday I'll upgrade and pass this one on.
>
> phaeton,
>
> If I'm not mistaken, KA will fix those things (internals) forever! Not sure
> about external parts.

No, they don't.

-sw

phaeton wrote:


> I Now all I need is an
> enameled Dutch Oven and I think i'll be set for awhile, regarding
> kitchen equipment.
>



I often see enameled cast iron Dutch ovens at places like
TJ Maxx or Marshall's. They have LeCreusets or Emeril's
or Rachel Ray and various non-branded types. I bought a beauty
for $20 recently and gave it to my son because I have a few already.

Most look just fine, some have very minor surface imperfections
but be careful--some have not-so-obvious cracks coming down from the
rim, or cracked lids.

gloria p

Sqwertz wrote:
> On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 19:18:59 -0500, Andy wrote:
>
>> phaeton said...
>>
>>> I just picked up a seldom used 4.5qt Kitchenaid Classic Stand Mixer for
>>> $75. I always wanted a larger one (like the Pro 5) but for this much
>>> scratch and for just one person, I think i did ok for now. Maybe
>>> someday I'll upgrade and pass this one on.
>> phaeton,
>>
>> If I'm not mistaken, KA will fix those things (internals) forever! Not sure
>> about external parts.
>
> No, they don't.
>
> -sw

I'm not counting on that either, but it sure looks like you can get
'rebuild kits' pretty inexpensively, and since I have the DIY spirit i
think i could pull this off someday, should I have to.

-J

On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 20:39:06 -0500, phaeton wrote:

> Sqwertz wrote:
>> On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 19:18:59 -0500, Andy wrote:
>>
>>> phaeton said...
>>>
>>>> I just picked up a seldom used 4.5qt Kitchenaid Classic Stand Mixer for
>>>> $75. I always wanted a larger one (like the Pro 5) but for this much
>>>> scratch and for just one person, I think i did ok for now. Maybe
>>>> someday I'll upgrade and pass this one on.
>>> phaeton,
>>>
>>> If I'm not mistaken, KA will fix those things (internals) forever! Not sure
>>> about external parts.
>>
>> No, they don't.
>>
>> -sw
>
> I'm not counting on that either, but it sure looks like you can get
> 'rebuild kits' pretty inexpensively, and since I have the DIY spirit i
> think i could pull this off someday, should I have to.

I've seen a *lot* of request fro KA parts like the gears on the net
over the years. If it were easy enough to call KA, I don't think
I'd be seeing that many requests.

-sw

phaeton > wrote:
> Plus you can make all kinds of neat
>stuff (jalapeno-cheddar bread, etc) that is hard to buy.

Congrats on the KA. Great minds think alike because I enjoyed making
and eating habanero/parmesan cheese bread.

On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 20:47:28 -0500, Sqwertz
> wrote:

>On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 20:39:06 -0500, phaeton wrote:
>
>> Sqwertz wrote:
>>> On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 19:18:59 -0500, Andy wrote:
>>>
>>>> phaeton said...

>> I'm not counting on that either, but it sure looks like you can get
>> 'rebuild kits' pretty inexpensively, and since I have the DIY spirit i
>> think i could pull this off someday, should I have to.

Even if you run into trouble, the popularity of the KA mixers has been
such that there is a "shadow" inventory of parts all over the country.
Virtually every appliance repair shop that handles KA at all has, I
can almost guarantee, cardboard boxes full of parts for older models.

Either way, enjoy your bargain....

ALex

On Jun 14, 8:00*pm, phaeton > wrote:
> I just picked up a seldom used 4.5qt Kitchenaid Classic Stand Mixer for
> $75.

Very nice!

> *I always wanted a larger one (like the Pro 5) but for this much
> scratch and for just one person, I think i did ok for now. *Maybe
> someday I'll upgrade and pass this one on.

Me sir, me!!!

>*You don't save any
> money making your own bread, but it always tastes better than
> store-bought, and I enjoy doing it.

I've always wondered about that. I figure I can get about 30 loaves of
bread from a 10kg bag of flour, and a small bag of yeast ( maybe 40
cents a loaf last time I checked which was before the price of flour
jumped) . The real questions are, "What are my energy (electic oven )
costs and the cost of my labour.?)

I don't like the 'air' bread (Wonder Bread etc) that one gets in the
grocery store so I'd have to buy from a bakery and a loaf of bread can
be fairly high[1]. So I suspect that I do save some money but not a
huge amount.

John Kane Kingston ON Canada

1. My favourite, but expensive bakery wants something like CDN$4.00
for a loaf of dark rye!

phaeton wrote:
> I just picked up a seldom used 4.5qt Kitchenaid Classic Stand Mixer for
> $75. I always wanted a larger one (like the Pro 5) but for this much
> scratch and for just one person, I think i did ok for now. Maybe
> someday I'll upgrade and pass this one on.
>
> My ex (one of the girls who don't cook these days) had one of these, and
> I employed it all winter long making various breads. You don't save any
> money making your own bread, but it always tastes better than
> store-bought, and I enjoy doing it. Plus you can make all kinds of neat
> stuff (jalapeno-cheddar bread, etc) that is hard to buy.
>
> Here's yet another reason to love Craigslist. Now all I need is an
> enameled Dutch Oven and I think i'll be set for awhile, regarding
> kitchen equipment.
>
> -J

How old is it? Is it a Hobart? (Actually, I was interested to
see an old ad that seemed to indicate that KA manufactured them
before Hobart did. I have to look into that--whether it was an
acquisition or something else.)

--
Jean B.

"Chemiker" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 20:47:28 -0500, Sqwertz
> > wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 20:39:06 -0500, phaeton wrote:
>>
>>> Sqwertz wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 19:18:59 -0500, Andy wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> phaeton said...
>
>>> I'm not counting on that either, but it sure looks like you can get
>>> 'rebuild kits' pretty inexpensively, and since I have the DIY spirit i
>>> think i could pull this off someday, should I have to.
>
> Even if you run into trouble, the popularity of the KA mixers has been
> such that there is a "shadow" inventory of parts all over the country.
> Virtually every appliance repair shop that handles KA at all has, I
> can almost guarantee, cardboard boxes full of parts for older models.
>
....and even bigger ones for the new models!

>
> How old is it? Is it a Hobart? (Actually, I was interested to see an
> old ad that seemed to indicate that KA manufactured them before Hobart
> did. I have to look into that--whether it was an acquisition or
> something else.)
>

It's not old at all... Maybe one or two years, as gathered by the
conversation of the previous owner. It's the "Classic" model (aka
K45xxxxx), which Kitchenaid is still manufacturing today. I didn't
specifically ask "how old is it?" though. In the ad he said he only
used it about 10 times, which may be true or may be false.

It didn't come with the flat beater (just the wire whisk and dough hook)
so I'll have to buy one. They're only about $15, so I'm not to bent up
about it.

-J

-J

John Kane wrote:
> On Jun 14, 8:00 pm, phaeton > wrote:
>> I just picked up a seldom used 4.5qt Kitchenaid Classic Stand Mixer for
>> $75.
>
> Very nice!
>
>> I always wanted a larger one (like the Pro 5) but for this much
>> scratch and for just one person, I think i did ok for now. Maybe
>> someday I'll upgrade and pass this one on.
>
> Me sir, me!!!
>
>> You don't save any
>> money making your own bread, but it always tastes better than
>> store-bought, and I enjoy doing it.
>
> I've always wondered about that. I figure I can get about 30 loaves of
> bread from a 10kg bag of flour, and a small bag of yeast ( maybe 40
> cents a loaf last time I checked which was before the price of flour
> jumped) . The real questions are, "What are my energy (electic oven )
> costs and the cost of my labour.?)
>
> I don't like the 'air' bread (Wonder Bread etc) that one gets in the
> grocery store so I'd have to buy from a bakery and a loaf of bread can
> be fairly high[1]. So I suspect that I do save some money but not a
> huge amount.
>
> John Kane Kingston ON Canada
>
> 1. My favourite, but expensive bakery wants something like CDN$4.00
> for a loaf of dark rye!

I guess I've never bought flour in quantity like that. I too dislike
the "Air Breads" as you mention. There's a brand called "Arnold"
(www.arnoldbakery.com) that makes a really nice, dense whole wheat that
I really like for a store bought pullman loaf, anyways. If you eat one
sandwich made out of this bread, you feel like you've eaten two when
you're done.

-J

"John Kane" > wrote in message
...
On Jun 14, 8:00 pm, phaeton > wrote:
> I just picked up a seldom used 4.5qt Kitchenaid Classic Stand Mixer for
> $75.

Very nice!

> I always wanted a larger one (like the Pro 5) but for this much
> scratch and for just one person, I think i did ok for now. Maybe
> someday I'll upgrade and pass this one on.

Me sir, me!!!

> You don't save any
> money making your own bread, but it always tastes better than
> store-bought, and I enjoy doing it.

I've always wondered about that. I figure I can get about 30 loaves of
bread from a 10kg bag of flour, and a small bag of yeast ( maybe 40
cents a loaf last time I checked which was before the price of flour
jumped) . The real questions are, "What are my energy (electic oven )
costs and the cost of my labour.?)
__________________________________________________ _____

Your figure isn't far out! I recently bought a 20kg sack of bakers' flour
for Can$17 from Loblaw's "wholesale" division. At 65% hydration, that's
enough for about 44x750g loaves which, if you ignore the cost of the 400g of
salt and the yeast, works out to 39 cents per loaf.
Even if it cost a dollar per loaf in power, one would still be waaay ahead
(unless you compare it with 99c supermarket specials that can hardly compare
in taste or texture).
Graham

On Jun 15, 9:51*pm, "boulanger" > wrote:
> "John Kane" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> On Jun 14, 8:00 pm, phaeton > wrote:
>
> > I just picked up a seldom used 4.5qt Kitchenaid Classic Stand Mixer for
> > $75.
>
> Very nice!
>
> > I always wanted a larger one (like the Pro 5) but for this much
> > scratch and for just one person, I think i did ok for now. Maybe
> > someday I'll upgrade and pass this one on.
>
> Me sir, me!!!
>
> > You don't save any
> > money making your own bread, but it always tastes better than
> > store-bought, and I enjoy doing it.
>
> I've always wondered about that. I figure I can get about 30 loaves of
> bread from a 10kg bag of flour, and a small bag of yeast ( maybe 40
> cents a loaf last time I checked which was before the price of flour
> jumped) . *The real questions are, "What are my energy (electic oven )
> costs and the cost of my labour.?)
> __________________________________________________ _____
>
> Your figure isn't far out! *I recently bought a 20kg sack of bakers' flour
> for Can$17 from Loblaw's "wholesale" division. *At 65% hydration, that's
> enough for about 44x750g loaves which, if you ignore the cost of the 400g of
> salt and the yeast, works out to 39 cents per loaf.
> Even if it cost a dollar per loaf in power, one would still be waaay ahead
> (unless you compare it with 99c supermarket specials that can hardly compare
> in taste or texture).
> Graham

Thanks Graham.

I did the 40 cents calculation really fast--a sort of back of the
envelope calculation about 8-10 months ago. It's reassuring to see my
figures are not that far out.

It seems a bit difficult to get consumption figures for the oven but
it looks like, at a areally rough guess, it would be about 60 cents
for an hour's operation. With either 2 or 4 loaves in the oven that
gives me a cost of somewhere between 48 cents (2 loaf) & 43 cents (4
loaf). Tis looking good so far assuming I have not messed up the
hydro cost.

Now the killer, do we cost it at what I'd charge as a consultant ($60/
hr) as an untrained baker ($12hr) , at minimum wage ($9.50) or just
say it's a hobby and assusme the 15 minutes (actual working time) it
take me to bake bread has no cash value to me?" ARRGHHH the pain of
Cost-Benefit Analyis!

Below are my costs. Interestingly enough even at consulting rates it's
fairly affordable to make my own bread as long as I make a minimum of
4 loaves.

I remember being at an urban permaculture seminar at least 10 years
ago where one of the people running the seminar said that it was
uneconomical to make one's own bread. I thought that he was a bit
wrong then and this analysis seems to suggest that unless he was
buying day old bread from the supermarket that he definately was
wrong.


Table 1. Production costs for 2 or 4 loaves of bread at various
labour rates.

Pay Rate
N. Loaves $15 $3 $2.38
2 7.98 1.98 1.67
4 4.33 1.23 1.08


John Kane Kingston ON Canada

"John Kane" > wrote in message
...
On Jun 15, 9:51 pm, "boulanger" > wrote:
> "John Kane" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> On Jun 14, 8:00 pm, phaeton > wrote:
>
> > I just picked up a seldom used 4.5qt Kitchenaid Classic Stand Mixer for
> > $75.
>
> Very nice!
>
> > I always wanted a larger one (like the Pro 5) but for this much
> > scratch and for just one person, I think i did ok for now. Maybe
> > someday I'll upgrade and pass this one on.
>
> Me sir, me!!!
>
> > You don't save any
> > money making your own bread, but it always tastes better than
> > store-bought, and I enjoy doing it.
>
> I've always wondered about that. I figure I can get about 30 loaves of
> bread from a 10kg bag of flour, and a small bag of yeast ( maybe 40
> cents a loaf last time I checked which was before the price of flour
> jumped) . The real questions are, "What are my energy (electic oven )
> costs and the cost of my labour.?)
> __________________________________________________ _____
>
> Your figure isn't far out! I recently bought a 20kg sack of bakers' flour
> for Can$17 from Loblaw's "wholesale" division. At 65% hydration, that's
> enough for about 44x750g loaves which, if you ignore the cost of the 400g
> of
> salt and the yeast, works out to 39 cents per loaf.
> Even if it cost a dollar per loaf in power, one would still be waaay ahead
> (unless you compare it with 99c supermarket specials that can hardly
> compare
> in taste or texture).
> Graham

Thanks Graham.

I did the 40 cents calculation really fast--a sort of back of the
envelope calculation about 8-10 months ago. It's reassuring to see my
figures are not that far out.

It seems a bit difficult to get consumption figures for the oven but
it looks like, at a areally rough guess, it would be about 60 cents
for an hour's operation. With either 2 or 4 loaves in the oven that
gives me a cost of somewhere between 48 cents (2 loaf) & 43 cents (4
loaf). Tis looking good so far assuming I have not messed up the
hydro cost.

Now the killer, do we cost it at what I'd charge as a consultant ($60/
hr) as an untrained baker ($12hr) , at minimum wage ($9.50) or just
say it's a hobby and assusme the 15 minutes (actual working time) it
take me to bake bread has no cash value to me?" ARRGHHH the pain of
Cost-Benefit Analyis!
-----------------------------------------------------------

But using that logic, we might as well buy ready meals from the supermarket
or take-out!
BTW, $60/hr is low for a consultant - that's plumber's rate!


-----------------------------------------------------------------
Below are my costs. Interestingly enough even at consulting rates it's
fairly affordable to make my own bread as long as I make a minimum of
4 loaves.

I remember being at an urban permaculture seminar at least 10 years
ago where one of the people running the seminar said that it was
uneconomical to make one's own bread. I thought that he was a bit
wrong then and this analysis seems to suggest that unless he was
buying day old bread from the supermarket that he definately was
wrong.


Table 1. Production costs for 2 or 4 loaves of bread at various
labour rates.

Pay Rate
N. Loaves $15 $3 $2.38
2 7.98 1.98 1.67
4 4.33 1.23 1.08
--------------------------------------------------------------------

One has to factor in the overheads. My prof assoc recommends a charge-out
rate of 2.5 to 3 times base salary. So $12/hr costs the company $30-$36/hr.

Graham
(Boulanger from a different computer)

On Mon, 15 Jun 2009 14:40:36 -0600, "graham" > wrote:

>
>"Chemiker" > wrote in message
.. .
>> On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 20:47:28 -0500, Sqwertz
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 20:39:06 -0500, phaeton wrote:
>>>
>>>> Sqwertz wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 19:18:59 -0500, Andy wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> phaeton said...
>>
>>>> I'm not counting on that either, but it sure looks like you can get
>>>> 'rebuild kits' pretty inexpensively, and since I have the DIY spirit i
>>>> think i could pull this off someday, should I have to.
>>
>> Even if you run into trouble, the popularity of the KA mixers has been
>> such that there is a "shadow" inventory of parts all over the country.
>> Virtually every appliance repair shop that handles KA at all has, I
>> can almost guarantee, cardboard boxes full of parts for older models.
>>
>...and even bigger ones for the new models!
>
Do I detect a certain *uncertainty* about the reliability of the
new KA's?

I wonder myself.....

Got a K5 and a K6. They never get thrown away. Our kids
will gladly fight each other for one. We referee.

Alex, enjoying the seat of POWER!

On Mon, 15 Jun 2009 17:23:01 -0500, phaeton >
wrote:

>

>It's not old at all... Maybe one or two years, as gathered by the
>conversation of the previous owner. It's the "Classic" model (aka
>K45xxxxx), which Kitchenaid is still manufacturing today. I didn't
>specifically ask "how old is it?" though. In the ad he said he only
>used it about 10 times, which may be true or may be false.
>
>It didn't come with the flat beater (just the wire whisk and dough hook)
>so I'll have to buy one. They're only about $15, so I'm not to bent up
>about it.

Ma' fren', I think you are ahead of the game.

Ya' done good. Doan look back.

Alex