question: Is meat quality going down?

Over roughly the last ten years, and particularly the last five, we (wife
and I) have been finding steaks in the meat sections of grocery stores to
have deteriorated in quality when grilled over charcoal. Not all, but
enough that we even don't finish eating what we grilled but actually throw
it out.

We've been doing various grillings over charcoal for decades and until
relatively recently been generally satisfied with everything we do (chicken,
BBQ ribs, burgers, steaks, even hot dogs and sometimes flounders) but
steaks, in particular, have really gone downhill. The
chewyness isn't there, the taste isn't there, and back when it was good, I
could take a grilled steak off the charcoal and put it on the plate and
juices would keep coming out (say 2-4 tablespoonsfull), too, and could be
used back on the meat or over rice or potatoes, and that would taste good,
too, along with the meat. Now, we are lucky to get a few drops of juice
instead of tablespoonsfull. Not only that but there would always be an aroma
of grilled steak that we could smell and it would make our mouths water.
On these bad steaks (maybe up to 20% of all that we get), there isn't even
any aroma coming off them.

I also notice that the medium-rare "healthy" pink color never shows up on
these bad steaks. It goes from a dark red to a gray with no intermediate
(warm) pink stage.

Now, with all of this genetically modified stuff coming off farms, "watered"
beef, hormone-pumped up beef (steroid bulking), diet-finagled beef
(antibiotics to inhibit intestinal bacteria to direct food to muscle
growty), we're just not getting the taste experience anymore. And, I seem
to have remembered reading that even chickens are now being bred to
produce all or mostly white meat and little or no dark meat.

Is anyone else out there noticing this? Have any ideas? Heard any rumors?

Is "organic-fed" (grass-only fed) what you have to get now? At, what,
$30/pound, so I'm told?

Wife and I decided tonight this was going to be our last rib-eye on the
grill, we were so disappointed with it.

"Stray Dog" > wrote in message
. org...
>
>
> question: Is meat quality going down?
>
> Over roughly the last ten years, and particularly the last five, we (wife
> and I) have been finding steaks in the meat sections of grocery stores to
> have deteriorated in quality when grilled over charcoal. Not all, but
> enough that we even don't finish eating what we grilled but actually throw
> it out.
>
> We've been doing various grillings over charcoal for decades and until
> relatively recently been generally satisfied with everything we do
> (chicken,
> BBQ ribs, burgers, steaks, even hot dogs and sometimes flounders) but
> steaks, in particular, have really gone downhill. The
> chewyness isn't there, the taste isn't there, and back when it was good, I
> could take a grilled steak off the charcoal and put it on the plate and
> juices would keep coming out (say 2-4 tablespoonsfull), too, and could be
> used back on the meat or over rice or potatoes, and that would taste good,
> too, along with the meat. Now, we are lucky to get a few drops of juice
> instead of tablespoonsfull. Not only that but there would always be an
> aroma of grilled steak that we could smell and it would make our mouths
> water. On these bad steaks (maybe up to 20% of all that we get), there
> isn't even any aroma coming off them.
>
> I also notice that the medium-rare "healthy" pink color never shows up on
> these bad steaks. It goes from a dark red to a gray with no intermediate
> (warm) pink stage.
>
> Now, with all of this genetically modified stuff coming off farms,
> "watered"
> beef, hormone-pumped up beef (steroid bulking), diet-finagled beef
> (antibiotics to inhibit intestinal bacteria to direct food to muscle
> growty), we're just not getting the taste experience anymore. And, I seem
> to have remembered reading that even chickens are now being bred to
> produce all or mostly white meat and little or no dark meat.
>
> Is anyone else out there noticing this? Have any ideas? Heard any rumors?
>
> Is "organic-fed" (grass-only fed) what you have to get now? At, what,
> $30/pound, so I'm told?
>
> Wife and I decided tonight this was going to be our last rib-eye on the
> grill, we were so disappointed with it.
>
>
We feel the same way. I think something has happened to beef production.
Now all beef is vac packed and sent to the retailer. There's no dry aging by
the meat market anymore. We've been braising, usually chuck, for a long
time.
Even standing rib doesn't taste like it used to.

Ed

>
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On Wed, 22 Apr 2009 23:58:12 +0000, Stray Dog
> wrote:

>question: Is meat quality going down?

Shop at a better butcher?.....

Stray Dog wrote:
>
>
> question: Is meat quality going down?

I don't know that the quality of meat offered for sale has been
declining, but I can say that there has been some jiggering and
redefining and it can be difficult at times to make head or tails of
what is being sold.



> Over roughly the last ten years, and particularly the last five, we (wife
> and I) have been finding steaks in the meat sections of grocery stores to
> have deteriorated in quality when grilled over charcoal. Not all, but
> enough that we even don't finish eating what we grilled but actually
> throw it out.

Interesting. Tell me more.



> We've been doing various grillings over charcoal for decades and until
> relatively recently been generally satisfied with everything we do
> (chicken,
> BBQ ribs, burgers, steaks, even hot dogs and sometimes flounders) but
> steaks, in particular, have really gone downhill. The
> chewyness isn't there, the taste isn't there, and back when it was good, I
> could take a grilled steak off the charcoal and put it on the plate and
> juices would keep coming out (say 2-4 tablespoonsfull), too, and could be
> used back on the meat or over rice or potatoes, and that would taste good,
> too, along with the meat. Now, we are lucky to get a few drops of juice
> instead of tablespoonsfull. Not only that but there would always be an
> aroma of grilled steak that we could smell and it would make our mouths
> water. On these bad steaks (maybe up to 20% of all that we get), there
> isn't even any aroma coming off them.

I wasn't aware that good steaks and other beef cuts were to have notable
"chewyness." When prepared properly, most beef is tender. Juices
shouldn't be oozing out in great quantity, either. Two to four
tablespoonsful is a lot of juice to lose. Steaks will usually ooze large
amounts of juices if they are served and cut into before they've been
rested.

The absence of aroma is, I think, another problem entirely. How old are
you? All meat emits an aroma when cooked, you just might not smell it
the same way you used to.



> I also notice that the medium-rare "healthy" pink color never shows up
> on these bad steaks. It goes from a dark red to a gray with no
> intermediate (warm) pink stage.

Which begs the question: are you overcooking them?



> Now, with all of this genetically modified stuff coming off farms,
> "watered"
> beef, hormone-pumped up beef (steroid bulking), diet-finagled beef
> (antibiotics to inhibit intestinal bacteria to direct food to muscle
> growty)...

You mean growth... anyway, this is nothing new. Hormone and
antibiotic-fed stock has been part of our food supply for ages.



>... we're just not getting the taste experience anymore. And, I
> seem to have remembered reading that even chickens are now being bred to
> produce all or mostly white meat and little or no dark meat.

Is it possibly to raise chickens with only white meat? Consider where
the dark meat on chickens is, and why it's dark. I don't think an all
white meat chicken is possible unless it never stands up or takes a step.



> Is anyone else out there noticing this? Have any ideas? Heard any rumors?
>
> Is "organic-fed" (grass-only fed) what you have to get now? At, what,
> $30/pound, so I'm told?
>
> Wife and I decided tonight this was going to be our last rib-eye on the
> grill, we were so disappointed with it.

Frankly, I think charcoal or propane grilling is too much for rib eye,
especially if one is not a good griller. There are lesser cuts with
better marbling that hold up better on the grill or under the broiler.

You may also be encountering problems with enhanced or injected meat.
You said that you're not getting "the taste experience" anymore, but you
didn't say what taste you are getting. Is the meat salty or bland? (And
again, this could also be an age issue.) Is the meat mushy or dry?

Pending further study, I'll offer that the problem is the way you cook
the meat in addition to the cuts you choose to cook. Try lesser cuts
with better marbling, cook them to internal temperature. Or forgo
grilling and come over to barbecuing or smoking -- slow cooking over low
indirect heat that can be done on a dedicated smoker or a gas or
charcoal grill. It lacks the flap and flash of grilling, but makes up
for it in better flavor and texture.

Pennyaline wrote:

> Is it possibly to raise chickens with only white meat? Consider where the
> dark meat on chickens is, and why it's dark. I don't think an all white
> meat chicken is possible unless it never stands up or takes a step.

Just amputate the legs and wings when the chicken is small. Sell the baby
chicken legs at inflated prices as frog's legs. Of course the "oyster" and
the neck will still be dark meat, and this would probably only be allowed in
China...

Bob

On Wed, 22 Apr 2009, Pennyaline wrote:

> Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 18:33:08 -0600
> From: Pennyaline >
> Newsgroups: rec.food.cooking
> Subject: Is meat quality (for grilling) going down?
>
> Stray Dog wrote:
>>
>>
>> question: Is meat quality going down?
>
> I don't know that the quality of meat offered for sale has been declining,
> but I can say that there has been some jiggering and redefining and it can be
> difficult at times to make head or tails of what is being sold.
>
>
>
>> Over roughly the last ten years, and particularly the last five, we (wife
>> and I) have been finding steaks in the meat sections of grocery stores to
>> have deteriorated in quality when grilled over charcoal. Not all, but
>> enough that we even don't finish eating what we grilled but actually throw
>> it out.
>
> Interesting. Tell me more.
>
>
>
>> We've been doing various grillings over charcoal for decades and until
>> relatively recently been generally satisfied with everything we do
>> (chicken,
>> BBQ ribs, burgers, steaks, even hot dogs and sometimes flounders) but
>> steaks, in particular, have really gone downhill. The
>> chewyness isn't there, the taste isn't there, and back when it was good, I
>> could take a grilled steak off the charcoal and put it on the plate and
>> juices would keep coming out (say 2-4 tablespoonsfull), too, and could be
>> used back on the meat or over rice or potatoes, and that would taste good,
>> too, along with the meat. Now, we are lucky to get a few drops of juice
>> instead of tablespoonsfull. Not only that but there would always be an
>> aroma of grilled steak that we could smell and it would make our mouths
>> water. On these bad steaks (maybe up to 20% of all that we get), there
>> isn't even any aroma coming off them.
>
> I wasn't aware that good steaks and other beef cuts were to have notable
> "chewyness." When prepared properly, most beef is tender. Juices shouldn't be
> oozing out in great quantity, either. Two to four tablespoonsful is a lot of
> juice to lose. Steaks will usually ooze large amounts of juices if they are
> served and cut into before they've been rested.
>
> The absence of aroma is, I think, another problem entirely. How old are you?
> All meat emits an aroma when cooked, you just might not smell it the same way
> you used to.

You are not paying attention. We are still getting that aroma on the good
steaks. Not on the bad steaks. The bad steaks leave less juice, too, along
with the poorer taste and poorer chewyness.

>
>> I also notice that the medium-rare "healthy" pink color never shows up on
>> these bad steaks. It goes from a dark red to a gray with no intermediate
>> (warm) pink stage.
>
> Which begs the question: are you overcooking them?

No.

>> Now, with all of this genetically modified stuff coming off farms,
>> "watered"
>> beef, hormone-pumped up beef (steroid bulking), diet-finagled beef
>> (antibiotics to inhibit intestinal bacteria to direct food to muscle
>> growty)...
>
> You mean growth... anyway, this is nothing new. Hormone and antibiotic-fed
> stock has been part of our food supply for ages.

Yes, but something new has been coming out to greater extents in recent
years.

>> ... we're just not getting the taste experience anymore. And, I seem to
>> have remembered reading that even chickens are now being bred to produce
>> all or mostly white meat and little or no dark meat.
>
> Is it possibly to raise chickens with only white meat? Consider where the
> dark meat on chickens is, and why it's dark. I don't think an all white meat
> chicken is possible unless it never stands up or takes a step.

Yes, all with genetics, and turkey too.

>
>
>> Is anyone else out there noticing this? Have any ideas? Heard any rumors?
>>
>> Is "organic-fed" (grass-only fed) what you have to get now? At, what,
>> $30/pound, so I'm told?
>>
>> Wife and I decided tonight this was going to be our last rib-eye on the
>> grill, we were so disappointed with it.
>
> Frankly, I think charcoal or propane grilling is too much for rib eye,
> especially if one is not a good griller. There are lesser cuts with better
> marbling that hold up better on the grill or under the broiler.
>
> You may also be encountering problems with enhanced or injected meat. You
> said that you're not getting "the taste experience" anymore, but you didn't
> say what taste you are getting. Is the meat salty or bland? (And again, this
> could also be an age issue.) Is the meat mushy or dry?

I don't know how to describe it. We're getting maybe 2/3 of our steaks
pretty much pretty good and not grilling any different than in the past
decades. Its the other 1/3 to 1/4 or so that are real disappointments.

> Pending further study, I'll offer that the problem is the way you cook the
> meat in addition to the cuts you choose to cook.



Try lesser cuts with better
> marbling, cook them to internal temperature. Or forgo grilling and come over
> to barbecuing or smoking -- slow cooking over low indirect heat that can be
> done on a dedicated smoker or a gas or charcoal grill.

I'd rather like to ask why we're doing everything the same way we've done
it over the last 25 years and in the past we've been 100% satisfied with
what we got, but in recent years, about 1/4 to 1/3 steaks we get are
noticeabley poor.

It lacks the flap and
> flash of grilling, but makes up for it in better flavor and texture.

I might look into this, but I still want to know why in the past we were
always (repeat 100%) satisfied, and now only about 2/3 satisfied.

In article > ,
Stray Dog > wrote:

> question: Is meat quality going down?
>
> Over roughly the last ten years, and particularly the last five, we (wife
> and I) have been finding steaks in the meat sections of grocery stores to
> have deteriorated in quality when grilled over charcoal. Not all, but
> enough that we even don't finish eating what we grilled but actually throw
> it out.

Part of the problem is the "low fat" idiocy.
I personally look for well marbled cuts from what I am selecting, unless
I'm doing tartare, then I go for as lean as possible.

>
<snip>

> I also notice that the medium-rare "healthy" pink color never shows up on
> these bad steaks. It goes from a dark red to a gray with no intermediate
> (warm) pink stage.

I'm not having that problem. Might be your technique or cut choices?
I've gotten a good medium rareness (accidently) with no problem. I
generally prefer it rare.
--
Peace! Om

Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass.
It's about learning to dance in the rain.
-- Anon.

In article >,
Mr. Bill > wrote:

> On Wed, 22 Apr 2009 23:58:12 +0000, Stray Dog
> > wrote:
>
> >question: Is meat quality going down?
>
> Shop at a better butcher?.....

Indeed.
--
Peace! Om

Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass.
It's about learning to dance in the rain.
-- Anon.

In article g>,
Stray Dog > wrote:

> I'd rather like to ask why we're doing everything the same way we've done
> it over the last 25 years and in the past we've been 100% satisfied with
> what we got, but in recent years, about 1/4 to 1/3 steaks we get are
> noticeabley poor.

You are likely running into saline injected meats.

Start reading labels and find a good local butcher. ;-)
--
Peace! Om

Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass.
It's about learning to dance in the rain.
-- Anon.

On Apr 22, 7:55*pm, "Bob Terwilliger" >
wrote:
> Pennyaline wrote:
> > Is it possibly to raise chickens with only white meat? Consider where the
> > dark meat on chickens is, and why it's dark. I don't think an all white
> > meat chicken is possible unless it never stands up or takes a step.
>
> Just amputate the legs and wings when the chicken is small. Sell the baby
> chicken legs at inflated prices as frog's legs. Of course the "oyster" and
> the neck will still be dark meat, and this would probably only be allowed in
> China...

Google "amputarianism."
>
> Bob

--Bryan, aka Bobo Bonobo http://www.TheBonobos.com

Stray Dog wrote:
>
>
> question: Is meat quality going down?

I don't think the supermarkets are selling us the quality we used to
get. It's almost impossible to get USDA choice meats in the regular
case. It's sold at the specialty butcher counter along with a few cuts
of prime and some of that Angus beef. What used to be called USDA Good
seems to have been replaced with something called "Select" and then
there is even a cheaper grade called "Quality" I think these are retail
grade names and not USDA.

> Is anyone else out there noticing this? Have any ideas? Heard any
rumors?

We buy our rib eye steaks at Sams Club. They are USDA choice and we
grill them on our propane grill. DH is an excellent griller who has been
sending up his burnt offerings to the great god Barbecue for so long
that the god has been appeased and our meat comes off the grill tasty
and perfect. Any other beef we grill is marinated first.

--
Janet Wilder
way-the-heck-south Texas
spelling doesn't count
but cooking does

Stray Dog wrote:
> You are not paying attention. We are still getting that aroma on the
> good steaks. Not on the bad steaks. The bad steaks leave less juice,
> too, along with the poorer taste and poorer chewyness.

I *am* paying attention, a great deal of it. Yet I still can't figure
out just what you mean by "bad" steaks with less juice, poor taste and
poor "chewyness." What do you mean when you say those things? Give me a
sensual description. Show, don't tell.



>>> I also notice that the medium-rare "healthy" pink color never shows
>>> up on these bad steaks. It goes from a dark red to a gray with no
>>> intermediate (warm) pink stage.
>>
>> Which begs the question: are you overcooking them?
>
> No.

I have to ask, you see, because there is no "intermediate warm stage"
that I know of. The only reason I can think of for it to go from dark
red to done gray is that it was improperly rested or just plain overcooked.



>>> Now, with all of this genetically modified stuff coming off farms,
>>> "watered"
>>> beef, hormone-pumped up beef (steroid bulking), diet-finagled beef
>>> (antibiotics to inhibit intestinal bacteria to direct food to muscle
>>> growty)...
>>
>> You mean growth... anyway, this is nothing new. Hormone and
>> antibiotic-fed stock has been part of our food supply for ages.
>
> Yes, but something new has been coming out to greater extents in recent
> years.
>
>>> ... we're just not getting the taste experience anymore. And, I seem
>>> to have remembered reading that even chickens are now being bred to
>>> produce all or mostly white meat and little or no dark meat.
>>
>> Is it possibly to raise chickens with only white meat? Consider where
>> the dark meat on chickens is, and why it's dark. I don't think an all
>> white meat chicken is possible unless it never stands up or takes a step.
>
> Yes, all with genetics, and turkey too.

It would take some real genetic hoop-jumping to make all white meat
poultry. Form follows function. They would have to alter function before
the nature of the meat would change.



>>> Is anyone else out there noticing this? Have any ideas? Heard any
>>> rumors?
>>>
>>> Is "organic-fed" (grass-only fed) what you have to get now? At, what,
>>> $30/pound, so I'm told?
>>>
>>> Wife and I decided tonight this was going to be our last rib-eye on the
>>> grill, we were so disappointed with it.
>>
>> Frankly, I think charcoal or propane grilling is too much for rib eye,
>> especially if one is not a good griller. There are lesser cuts with
>> better marbling that hold up better on the grill or under the broiler.
>>
>> You may also be encountering problems with enhanced or injected meat.
>> You said that you're not getting "the taste experience" anymore, but
>> you didn't say what taste you are getting. Is the meat salty or bland?
>> (And again, this could also be an age issue.) Is the meat mushy or dry?
>
> I don't know how to describe it. We're getting maybe 2/3 of our steaks
> pretty much pretty good and not grilling any different than in the past
> decades. Its the other 1/3 to 1/4 or so that are real disappointments.

Answer these questions: Where do you buy your steaks? Has that changed?
What cuts exactly are your steaks? Has THAT changed?
Are they ALL appropriate cuts for grilling?
Are they the same thickness?
Do they have the same amount of fat?
Do they have the same amount of bone?
Are they enhanced (it's important to know)?




>> Pending further study, I'll offer that the problem is the way you cook
>> the meat in addition to the cuts you choose to cook.
>
>
>
>> Try lesser cuts with better
>> marbling, cook them to internal temperature. Or forgo grilling and
>> come over to barbecuing or smoking -- slow cooking over low indirect
>> heat that can be done on a dedicated smoker or a gas or charcoal grill.
>
> I'd rather like to ask why we're doing everything the same way we've
> done it over the last 25 years and in the past we've been 100% satisfied
> with what we got, but in recent years, about 1/4 to 1/3 steaks we get
> are noticeabley poor.

Things can change considerably over twenty five years. The most
outstanding changes have occurred in you! But I also suggest that, since
the nature of all business has changed including the food business, the
meat you're buying is different too. I didn't say it had lessened in
quality, but I did say it's different. Pay attention to what you're
buying and cook it in a manner appropriate for its cut.



>> It lacks the flap and
>> flash of grilling, but makes up for it in better flavor and texture.
>
> I might look into this, but I still want to know why in the past we were
> always (repeat 100%) satisfied, and now only about 2/3 satisfied.

Were you really 100% satisfied, are is that how you're remembering it
for comparison's sake?

<frankly, if I was satisfied more than half the time with anything, I'd
be a pretty happy camper!>

On Wed, 22 Apr 2009 22:56:05 -0600, Pennyaline
> wrote:

>I have to ask, you see, because there is no "intermediate warm stage"
>that I know of.

Me either.

>The only reason I can think of for it to go from dark
>red to done gray is that it was improperly rested
>
Improperly rested steak? Resting will usually overcook the thin
steaks most people buy. They are forced to cut them immediately or
risk over cooking.

> or just plain overcooked.

I'll second that.

I like cooking frozen steaks. By the time the outside is properly
charred, the inside is thawed and not quite medium rare.

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On Wed, 22 Apr 2009 21:46:45 -0500, Janet Wilder
> wrote:

>Stray Dog wrote:
>>
>>
>> question: Is meat quality going down?
>
>I don't think the supermarkets are selling us the quality we used to
>get.

Dress sizes adjusted so that more ample bodies can say they're still a
size 4 and bra sizes adjusted so an A can pretend to be a B... choice
meat isn't the same quality we knew as choice when we were growing up
and HFCS is in everything these days. It's a conspiracy I tell ya.
Look at what a penny will buy these days. Nothing. Not even a minute
on the parking meter.

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

In article >,
Pennyaline > wrote:

> Stray Dog wrote:

> > Yes, all with genetics, and turkey too.
>
> It would take some real genetic hoop-jumping to make all white meat
> poultry. Form follows function. They would have to alter function before
> the nature of the meat would change.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornish_hen

"to develop the Rock Cornish game hen -- a succulent bird with all-white
meat"

I've never eaten one.

I understand that the domestic turkey has been bred to have a much
larger breast, which is white meat. It's not all white meat, but it's
not like the original wild turkey, either.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

Stray Dog wrote:
>
>
> question: Is meat quality going down?
>

Ignore the big box is your friend marketing and shop at a store with a
real meat department.

"Stray Dog" > wrote in message
. org...
>
>
> question: Is meat quality going down?
>
> Over roughly the last ten years, and particularly the last five, we (wife
> and I) have been finding steaks in the meat sections of grocery stores to
> have deteriorated in quality when grilled over charcoal. Not all, but
> enough that we even don't finish eating what we grilled but actually throw
> it out.
>
It may be that getting older is part of your problem as it seems you have a
generalized problem with foods that you grill. Taste and smell go with age.
Janet

On Apr 22, 11:56*pm, Pennyaline > wrote:
> Stray Dog wrote:
> >
> >>> ... we're just not getting the taste experience anymore. And, I seem
> >>> to have remembered reading that even chickens are now being bred to
> >>> produce all or mostly white meat and little or no dark meat.
>
> >> Is it possibly to raise chickens with only white meat? Consider where
> >> the dark meat on chickens is, and why it's dark. I don't think an all
> >> white meat chicken is possible unless it never stands up or takes a step.
>
> > Yes, all with genetics, and turkey too.
>
> It would take some real genetic hoop-jumping to make all white meat
> poultry. Form follows function. They would have to alter function before
> the nature of the meat would change.
>
Well, they've managed to breed them to be boneless and skinless.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

--Bryan listen @ http://www.myspace.com/TheBonobos

On Wed, 22 Apr 2009, Omelet wrote:

> Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 21:00:34 -0500
> From: Omelet >
> Newsgroups: rec.food.cooking
> Subject: Is meat quality (for grilling) going down?
>
> In article > ,
> Stray Dog > wrote:
>
>> question: Is meat quality going down?
>>
>> Over roughly the last ten years, and particularly the last five, we (wife
>> and I) have been finding steaks in the meat sections of grocery stores to
>> have deteriorated in quality when grilled over charcoal. Not all, but
>> enough that we even don't finish eating what we grilled but actually throw
>> it out.
>
> Part of the problem is the "low fat" idiocy.
> I personally look for well marbled cuts from what I am selecting, unless
> I'm doing tartare, then I go for as lean as possible.

Yes, the wife and I discovered this years ago, too. Hamburgers made from
lean ground beef (also more expensive) just don't taste as good as "greasy
burgers".

>>
> <snip>
>
>> I also notice that the medium-rare "healthy" pink color never shows up on
>> these bad steaks. It goes from a dark red to a gray with no intermediate
>> (warm) pink stage.
>
> I'm not having that problem. Might be your technique or cut choices?
> I've gotten a good medium rareness (accidently) with no problem. I
> generally prefer it rare.

Thanks for your comments. Its only been recently (last few years, and in
increasing frequency) that we've been disatisfied with an increasing
fraction of what comes off our grill. And, I have not changed the way I do
things, either. We still get a lot of good steaks, but we're getting more
bad ones. And, I've noticed it over the years with flounder at
restaurants. Way in the past I often got good ones with that wonderful
texture/taste that I don't know how to describe, but today they've got
everything pre-cooked-whatever and just microwave it up and bring it out
two minutes after we give our order (in the old days, it took 20-30
minutes).

> --
> Peace! Om
>
> Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass.
> It's about learning to dance in the rain.
> -- Anon.
>

On Wed, 22 Apr 2009, Omelet wrote:

> Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 21:01:01 -0500
> From: Omelet >
> Newsgroups: rec.food.cooking
> Subject: Is meat quality (for grilling) going down?
>
> In article >,
> Mr. Bill > wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 22 Apr 2009 23:58:12 +0000, Stray Dog
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> question: Is meat quality going down?
>>
>> Shop at a better butcher?.....
>
> Indeed.

I'm going to look into that, too.


> --
> Peace! Om
>
> Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass.
> It's about learning to dance in the rain.
> -- Anon.
>

On Wed, 22 Apr 2009, Omelet wrote:

> Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 21:03:22 -0500
> From: Omelet >
> Newsgroups: rec.food.cooking
> Subject: Is meat quality (for grilling) going down?
>
> In article g>,
> Stray Dog > wrote:
>
>> I'd rather like to ask why we're doing everything the same way we've done
>> it over the last 25 years and in the past we've been 100% satisfied with
>> what we got, but in recent years, about 1/4 to 1/3 steaks we get are
>> noticeabley poor.
>
> You are likely running into saline injected meats.

I've been hearing this from other people, too, whenever I bring this
problem up in conversation.

Thanks for your comments.

> Start reading labels and find a good local butcher. ;-)
> --
> Peace! Om
>
> Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass.
> It's about learning to dance in the rain.
> -- Anon.
>

On Wed, 22 Apr 2009, Janet Wilder wrote:

> Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 21:46:45 -0500
> From: Janet Wilder >
> Newsgroups: rec.food.cooking
> Subject: Is meat quality (for grilling) going down?
>
> Stray Dog wrote:
>>
>>
>> question: Is meat quality going down?
>
> I don't think the supermarkets are selling us the quality we used to get.
> It's almost impossible to get USDA choice meats in the regular case. It's
> sold at the specialty butcher counter along with a few cuts of prime and some
> of that Angus beef.

We've tried that meat labeled "Angus"-whatever, or "Black Angus" as if its
something special, and for the ones we tried I don't think we could tell
much difference (except they had higher prices on it).

What used to be called USDA Good seems to have been
> replaced with something called "Select" and then there is even a cheaper
> grade called "Quality" I think these are retail grade names and not USDA.
>
> > Is anyone else out there noticing this? Have any ideas? Heard any rumors?
>
> We buy our rib eye steaks at Sams Club. They are USDA choice and we grill
> them on our propane grill. DH is an excellent griller who has been sending up
> his burnt offerings to the great god Barbecue for so long that the god has
> been appeased and our meat comes off the grill tasty and perfect. Any other
> beef we grill is marinated first.

Thanks for your recommendations and comments.

> --
> Janet Wilder
> way-the-heck-south Texas
> spelling doesn't count

Life is too short for spell-checkers

> but cooking does





>

On Thu, 23 Apr 2009 13:14:56 +0000, Stray Dog
> wrote:

>
>On Wed, 22 Apr 2009, Omelet wrote:
>
>> Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 21:03:22 -0500
>> From: Omelet >
>> Newsgroups: rec.food.cooking
>> Subject: Is meat quality (for grilling) going down?
>>
>> In article g>,
>> Stray Dog > wrote:
>>
>>> I'd rather like to ask why we're doing everything the same way we've done
>>> it over the last 25 years and in the past we've been 100% satisfied with
>>> what we got, but in recent years, about 1/4 to 1/3 steaks we get are
>>> noticeabley poor.
>>
>> You are likely running into saline injected meats.
>
>I've been hearing this from other people, too, whenever I bring this
>problem up in conversation.
>
>Thanks for your comments.
>

Read the label. If it contains anything more than the cut of meat,
don't buy it. When the Wal-Mart opened a super store here I went in
and looked around. I picked up a roast and looked at the label and it
said "meat, bullion." I don't buy meat with an ingredients list. I
refuse to pay $5.00/pound for flavored water.
--
Susan N.

"Moral indignation is in most cases two percent moral,
48 percent indignation, and 50 percent envy."
Vittorio De Sica, Italian movie director (1901-1974)

I have made comments all throughout, but did not answer all of your
questions.

Thanks, otherwise for your time and recommendations.

On Wed, 22 Apr 2009, Pennyaline wrote:

> Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 22:56:05 -0600
> From: Pennyaline >
> Newsgroups: rec.food.cooking
> Subject: Is meat quality (for grilling) going down?
>
> Stray Dog wrote:
>> You are not paying attention. We are still getting that aroma on the good
>> steaks. Not on the bad steaks. The bad steaks leave less juice, too, along
>> with the poorer taste and poorer chewyness.
>
> I *am* paying attention, a great deal of it.

Not if you missed the part where we are still getting some good steaks.
Its just that we're getting a higher proportion of bad ones.

And, I'm noticing that several other people here are reporting similar
experiences in their responses to my question.

Yet I still can't figure out
> just what you mean by "bad" steaks with less juice, poor taste and poor
> "chewyness." What do you mean when you say those things? Give me a sensual
> description. Show, don't tell.

The bad ones taste like cardboard (poor taste), dry (less juice), and the
chewyness is just not like it shoud be. I don't know if there is some
special gourmet lexicon that I need to consult.

I can tell you that I am also disatisfied with fast food hamburgers, too,
but we can find excellent texture, juicy, and tastey hamburgers here at
our better restaurants and we're happy to pay the extra couple bucks.

And, cheap hamburgers always tasted bad, even when I was a kid.

>
>
>>>> I also notice that the medium-rare "healthy" pink color never shows up on
>>>> these bad steaks. It goes from a dark red to a gray with no intermediate
>>>> (warm) pink stage.
>>>
>>> Which begs the question: are you overcooking them?
>>
>> No.
>
> I have to ask, you see, because there is no "intermediate warm stage" that I
> know of. The only reason I can think of for it to go from dark red to done
> gray is that it was improperly rested or just plain overcooked.

At the better restaurants they even ask us if we want "cool red" or "warm
pink", and we've been asked this many times, so it is not in our
imagination. And, we see it, ourselves.

>
>
>>>> Now, with all of this genetically modified stuff coming off farms,
>>>> "watered"
>>>> beef, hormone-pumped up beef (steroid bulking), diet-finagled beef
>>>> (antibiotics to inhibit intestinal bacteria to direct food to muscle
>>>> growty)...
>>>
>>> You mean growth... anyway, this is nothing new. Hormone and antibiotic-fed
>>> stock has been part of our food supply for ages.
>>
>> Yes, but something new has been coming out to greater extents in recent
>> years.
>>
>>>> ... we're just not getting the taste experience anymore. And, I seem to
>>>> have remembered reading that even chickens are now being bred to produce
>>>> all or mostly white meat and little or no dark meat.
>>>
>>> Is it possibly to raise chickens with only white meat? Consider where the
>>> dark meat on chickens is, and why it's dark. I don't think an all white
>>> meat chicken is possible unless it never stands up or takes a step.
>>
>> Yes, all with genetics, and turkey too.
>
> It would take some real genetic hoop-jumping to make all white meat poultry.
> Form follows function. They would have to alter function before the nature of
> the meat would change.

I'm just telling you what I read in at least two media articles.

And, I know beef genetic modification by old breeding techniques as well
as new cell culture techniques is a very big industry, both in agronomy as
well as animal husbandry (beef, poultry, and aquaculture).

>>>> Is anyone else out there noticing this? Have any ideas? Heard any rumors?
>>>>
>>>> Is "organic-fed" (grass-only fed) what you have to get now? At, what,
>>>> $30/pound, so I'm told?
>>>>
>>>> Wife and I decided tonight this was going to be our last rib-eye on the
>>>> grill, we were so disappointed with it.
>>>
>>> Frankly, I think charcoal or propane grilling is too much for rib eye,
>>> especially if one is not a good griller. There are lesser cuts with better
>>> marbling that hold up better on the grill or under the broiler.
>>>
>>> You may also be encountering problems with enhanced or injected meat. You
>>> said that you're not getting "the taste experience" anymore, but you
>>> didn't say what taste you are getting. Is the meat salty or bland? (And
>>> again, this could also be an age issue.) Is the meat mushy or dry?
>>
>> I don't know how to describe it. We're getting maybe 2/3 of our steaks
>> pretty much pretty good and not grilling any different than in the past
>> decades. Its the other 1/3 to 1/4 or so that are real disappointments.
>
> Answer these questions: Where do you buy your steaks? Has that changed?
> What cuts exactly are your steaks?
> Has THAT changed?
> Are they ALL appropriate cuts for
> grilling?
> Are they the same thickness?
> Do they have the same amount of fat?
> Do they have the same amount of bone?
> Are they enhanced (it's important to
> know)?
>
>
>
>
>>> Pending further study, I'll offer that the problem is the way you cook the
>>> meat in addition to the cuts you choose to cook.
>>
>>
>>
>>> Try lesser cuts with better
>>> marbling, cook them to internal temperature. Or forgo grilling and come
>>> over to barbecuing or smoking -- slow cooking over low indirect heat that
>>> can be done on a dedicated smoker or a gas or charcoal grill.
>>
>> I'd rather like to ask why we're doing everything the same way we've done
>> it over the last 25 years and in the past we've been 100% satisfied with
>> what we got, but in recent years, about 1/4 to 1/3 steaks we get are
>> noticeabley poor.
>
> Things can change considerably over twenty five years. The most outstanding
> changes have occurred in you!

Oh, yeah. We didn't have computers when I was a kid.

But I also suggest that, since the nature of
> all business has changed including the food business,

And, you think "the most outstanding changes" have occurred in me?

the meat you're buying
> is different too. I didn't say it had lessened in quality,

I can tell you that plant breeding is not for quality of taste but disease
resistance, resitance to blemish induction by transport, harvest ease,
harvest quantity, and shelf longivity. Not for taste or nutrition.

but I did say it's
> different. Pay attention to what you're buying and cook it in a manner
> appropriate for its cut.
>
>
>
>>> It lacks the flap and
>>> flash of grilling, but makes up for it in better flavor and texture.
>>
>> I might look into this, but I still want to know why in the past we were
>> always (repeat 100%) satisfied, and now only about 2/3 satisfied.
>
> Were you really 100% satisfied,

Yeah, actually we were. We only started getting a "bad" steak maybe 5-7
years ago and just figured it was an old animal or a sick animal and
didn't think much beyond that.

are is that how you're remembering it for
> comparison's sake?

I'm going to recommend that you read all of the other followups to my
question that were posted by other people.

> <frankly, if I was satisfied more than half the time with anything, I'd be a
> pretty happy camper!>

We all have different standards of persnicketyness.

see below....

On Wed, 22 Apr 2009, Dan Abel wrote:

> Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 23:10:52 -0700
> From: Dan Abel >
> Newsgroups: rec.food.cooking
> Subject: Is meat quality (for grilling) going down?
>
> In article >,
> Pennyaline > wrote:
>
>> Stray Dog wrote:
>
>>> Yes, all with genetics, and turkey too.
>>
>> It would take some real genetic hoop-jumping to make all white meat
>> poultry. Form follows function. They would have to alter function before
>> the nature of the meat would change.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornish_hen
>
> "to develop the Rock Cornish game hen -- a succulent bird with all-white
> meat"
>
> I've never eaten one.

I have. They are not what they are cracked up to be either, but I
understand that the general public perfers white meat (so do I).

> I understand that the domestic turkey has been bred to have a much
> larger breast, which is white meat. It's not all white meat, but it's
> not like the original wild turkey, either.

We have wild turkeys running around here (I live in the country) and they
are quite scrawny.

For you "classical" people who ever go to art museums and can find
paintings made in the 1800s or before that have cows in them, you will
notice that those cows were a lot more scrawny-looking than anything
you'll find on farms today, and its not because they were starving.

Today's domestic animals headed for slaughter are genetically manipulated
and stuffed for maximum "productivity" (i.e. for maximum dollars per
pound, and maximum pounds and for least pounds going down the hatch).

Thanks for the research on cornish hens.

> --
> Dan Abel
> Petaluma, California USA
>
>

On Thu, 23 Apr 2009, Janet Bostwick wrote:

> Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 06:48:48 -0600
> From: Janet Bostwick >
> Newsgroups: rec.food.cooking
> Subject: Is meat quality (for grilling) going down?
>
>
> "Stray Dog" > wrote in message
> . org...
>>
>>
>> question: Is meat quality going down?
>>
>> Over roughly the last ten years, and particularly the last five, we (wife
>> and I) have been finding steaks in the meat sections of grocery stores to
>> have deteriorated in quality when grilled over charcoal. Not all, but
>> enough that we even don't finish eating what we grilled but actually throw
>> it out.
>>
> It may be that getting older is part of your problem as it seems you have a
> generalized problem with foods that you grill. Taste and smell go with age.
> Janet

No, we still get a larger fraction of good results. Its just that the
fraction of bad results is increasing. If my taste buds were going to
hell, then we would not be getting _any_ good results.

And, restaurant quality is all over the map. I can still find very
excellent hamburgers at the better restaurants, and the crap at the fast
food places, almost all of them, is just as bad as decades ago.

Stray Dog > wrote in
. org:

> question: Is meat quality going down?

Yes.

Many replies in this thread try to assault your buying habits, your age,
etc. which is just plain stupid.

When the FDA banned the use of hormones in feed fed to harvest animals
years ago, it got increasingly harder to find a good steak.

There is a very famous steak house in a nearby city. When my friend and I
went there to eat a few years ago, we got a steak that was simply not
memorable, as all other steaks we had ever eaten there had been.

It was near closing time, and the owner came out to chat. When asked about
the quality of the meat, his simple reply was "we can't get the good steaks
any more."

When we asked him if the 'good' steaks were being held back for the
'primo' buyers, his reply was one of disgust. "Are you kidding? I AM a
'primo' buyer. Great steaks are a thing of the past."

On Apr 22, 7:58*pm, Stray Dog > wrote:
> question: Is meat quality going down?
>
> Over roughly the last ten years, and particularly the last five, we (wife
> and I) have been finding steaks in the meat sections of grocery stores to
> have deteriorated in quality when grilled over charcoal. Not all, but
> enough that we even don't finish eating what we grilled but actually throw
> it out.
>
> We've been doing various grillings over charcoal for decades and until
> relatively recently been generally satisfied with everything we do (chicken,
> BBQ ribs, burgers, steaks, even hot dogs and sometimes flounders) but
> steaks, in particular, have really gone downhill. The
> chewyness isn't there, the taste isn't there, and back when it was good, I
> could take a grilled steak off the charcoal and put it on the *plate and
> juices would keep coming out (say 2-4 tablespoonsfull), too, and could be
> used back on the meat or over rice or potatoes, and that would taste good,
> too, along with the meat. Now, we are lucky to get a few drops of juice
> instead of tablespoonsfull. Not only that but there would always be an aroma
> of grilled steak that we could smell and it would make our mouths water.
> On these bad steaks (maybe up to 20% of all that we get), there isn't even
> any aroma coming off them.
>
> I also notice that the medium-rare "healthy" pink color never shows up on
> these bad steaks. It goes from a dark red to a gray with no intermediate
> (warm) pink stage.
>
> Now, with all of this genetically modified stuff coming off farms, "watered"
> beef, hormone-pumped up beef (steroid bulking), diet-finagled beef
> (antibiotics to inhibit intestinal bacteria to direct food to muscle
> growty), we're just not getting the taste experience anymore. And, I seem
> to have remembered reading that even chickens are now being bred to
> produce all or mostly white meat and little or no dark meat.
>
> Is anyone else out there noticing this? Have any ideas? Heard any rumors?
>
> Is "organic-fed" (grass-only fed) what you have to get now? At, what,
> $30/pound, so I'm told?
>
> Wife and I decided tonight this was going to be our last rib-eye on the
> grill, we were so disappointed with it.

Just saw your question and wanted to comment because we (my wife and
I) have noticed the same thing. A couple months ago I rifled through
the meat refrigerator at the local grocery store and found what I
thought were two fairly nice looking rib-eye steaks. They were the
only two that I thought looked "acceptable". They were marbled nicely
compared to the rest of the steaks in that refrigerator, which looked
tough and dis-colored, like dye was added. As I turned around I
noticed the refrigerator next to it had "bulk" steaks and also noticed
a sticker in the top corner in extremely small print that said
"product of Canada, Mexico, or China". I looked down on the steaks
that I just picked up and they both had a sticker that read "Product
of USA". I riffled through the rest of the steaks in the refrigerator
where I just selected the "good" steaks. Every other steak in that
refrigerator was marked "product of Canada, Mexico, or China". I had
picked out the two steaks (product of USA) that looked the best, and
frankly, they tasted great and had lots of juice, and were pink in the
middle after we grilled them. I think that we are importing cheaper
meat from outside the US, and who knows what they did to make them
"CHEAPER". My wife and I now only buy our meat from a local butcher
that we know only gets his meat from local farmers. Point is that if
your going to buy meat from the national grocery chains, look for the
sticker to see where it came from. If No "Product of USA" sticker
then No buy!

On Apr 22, 6:58*pm, Stray Dog > wrote:
> question: Is meat quality going down?
>
> Over roughly the last ten years, and particularly the last five, we (wife
> and I) have been finding steaks in the meat sections of grocery stores to
> have deteriorated in quality when grilled over charcoal. Not all, but
> enough that we even don't finish eating what we grilled but actually throw
> it out.
>
> We've been doing various grillings over charcoal for decades and until
> relatively recently been generally satisfied with everything we do (chicken,
> BBQ ribs, burgers, steaks, even hot dogs and sometimes flounders) but
> steaks, in particular, have really gone downhill. The
> chewyness isn't there, the taste isn't there, and back when it was good, I
> could take a grilled steak off the charcoal and put it on the *plate and
> juices would keep coming out (say 2-4 tablespoonsfull), too, and could be
> used back on the meat or over rice or potatoes, and that would taste good,
> too, along with the meat. Now, we are lucky to get a few drops of juice
> instead of tablespoonsfull. Not only that but there would always be an aroma
> of grilled steak that we could smell and it would make our mouths water.
> On these bad steaks (maybe up to 20% of all that we get), there isn't even
> any aroma coming off them.
>
> I also notice that the medium-rare "healthy" pink color never shows up on
> these bad steaks. It goes from a dark red to a gray with no intermediate
> (warm) pink stage.
>
> Now, with all of this genetically modified stuff coming off farms, "watered"
> beef, hormone-pumped up beef (steroid bulking), diet-finagled beef
> (antibiotics to inhibit intestinal bacteria to direct food to muscle
> growty), we're just not getting the taste experience anymore. And, I seem
> to have remembered reading that even chickens are now being bred to
> produce all or mostly white meat and little or no dark meat.
>
> Is anyone else out there noticing this? Have any ideas? Heard any rumors?
>
> Is "organic-fed" (grass-only fed) what you have to get now? At, what,
> $30/pound, so I'm told?
>
> Wife and I decided tonight this was going to be our last rib-eye on the
> grill, we were so disappointed with it.

No lack of quality here in beef country - you need to find a better
source. If the supermarkets offer pretty much all the same, head for
a small-town meat locker (one that slaughters for local farmers) and
see what they have.

We get great beef, here, just as it's always been.

N.

Nancy2 wrote:

> No lack of quality here in beef country - you need to find a better
> source. If the supermarkets offer pretty much all the same, head for
> a small-town meat locker (one that slaughters for local farmers) and
> see what they have.
>
> We get great beef, here, just as it's always been.


I am reluctant to buy meats at some of the local grocery stores, but
others have good stuff. I buy most of my meat from a local butcher,
whose is cheaper and much better quality. I had all but stopped buying
pork for years but now buy it regularly from him. I had almost forgotten
how good pork chops can be.

Due to change in weather and climate meat quality is going down.

In article >,
Stray Dog > wrote:

> Thanks for your comments.

Welcome!

> Its only been recently (last few years, and in
> increasing frequency) that we've been disatisfied with an increasing
> fraction of what comes off our grill. And, I have not changed the way I do
> things, either. We still get a lot of good steaks, but we're getting more
> bad ones.

Seriously, check out the saline injection issue.
It's a biggy and some stores do it more than others.
They do it to chicken and pork too.

> And, I've noticed it over the years with flounder at
> restaurants. Way in the past I often got good ones with that wonderful
> texture/taste that I don't know how to describe, but today they've got
> everything pre-cooked-whatever and just microwave it up and bring it out
> two minutes after we give our order (in the old days, it took 20-30
> minutes).

I feel you on that one! We rarely eat out any more for a number of
reasons.
--
Peace! Om

Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass.
It's about learning to dance in the rain.
-- Anon.

On Apr 22, 7:58�pm, Stray Dog > wrote:
> question: Is meat quality going down?
>
> Over roughly the last ten years, and particularly the last five, we (wife
> and I) have been finding steaks in the meat sections of grocery stores to
> have deteriorated in quality when grilled over charcoal. Not all, but
> enough that we even don't finish eating what we grilled but actually throw
> it out.
>
> We've been doing various grillings over charcoal for decades and until
> relatively recently been generally satisfied with everything we do (chicken,
> BBQ ribs, burgers, steaks, even hot dogs and sometimes flounders) but
> steaks, in particular, have really gone downhill. The
> chewyness isn't there, the taste isn't there, and back when it was good, I
> could take a grilled steak off the charcoal and put it on the �plate and
> juices would keep coming out (say 2-4 tablespoonsfull), too, and could be
> used back on the meat or over rice or potatoes, and that would taste good,
> too, along with the meat. Now, we are lucky to get a few drops of juice
> instead of tablespoonsfull. Not only that but there would always be an aroma
> of grilled steak that we could smell and it would make our mouths water.
> On these bad steaks (maybe up to 20% of all that we get), there isn't even
> any aroma coming off them.
>
> I also notice that the medium-rare "healthy" pink color never shows up on
> these bad steaks. It goes from a dark red to a gray with no intermediate
> (warm) pink stage.
>
> Now, with all of this genetically modified stuff coming off farms, "watered"
> beef, hormone-pumped up beef (steroid bulking), diet-finagled beef
> (antibiotics to inhibit intestinal bacteria to direct food to muscle
> growty), we're just not getting the taste experience anymore. And, I seem
> to have remembered reading that even chickens are now being bred to
> produce all or mostly white meat and little or no dark meat.
>
> Is anyone else out there noticing this? Have any ideas? Heard any rumors?
>
> Is "organic-fed" (grass-only fed) what you have to get now? At, what,
> $30/pound, so I'm told?
>
> Wife and I decided tonight this was going to be our last rib-eye on the
> grill, we were so disappointed with it.

The problem with getting inferior quality meat began when people
started becoming fat concious. The meat you find in the supermarket
today has almost no fat in it. Fat is necessary for flavor,
juiciness, and tenderness. The restaurants get all the good meat.
Another problem is all this boneless crap they're selling. They've
removed the bone to make it more convenient for the consumer but
they've also removed a lot of the flavor. The bone, along with the
fat, provides a great deal of flavor to a piece of meat.

In article
>,
" > wrote:

> The problem with getting inferior quality meat began when people
> started becoming fat concious. The meat you find in the supermarket
> today has almost no fat in it. Fat is necessary for flavor,
> juiciness, and tenderness. The restaurants get all the good meat.
> Another problem is all this boneless crap they're selling. They've
> removed the bone to make it more convenient for the consumer but
> they've also removed a lot of the flavor. The bone, along with the
> fat, provides a great deal of flavor to a piece of meat.

The meat right up against the bone is always the best. ;-d
I don't hesitate to pick the bone up and gnaw it off!
--
Peace! Om

Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass.
It's about learning to dance in the rain.
-- Anon.

"Stray Dog" > wrote in message
r.org...
>
> On Wed, 22 Apr 2009, Pennyaline wrote:
>
>> Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 18:33:08 -0600
>> From: Pennyaline >
>> Newsgroups: rec.food.cooking
>> Subject: Is meat quality (for grilling) going down?
>>
>> Stray Dog wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> question: Is meat quality going down?

No the quality has not changed the formulation for the feed lots and the FAT
POLICE have convinced the stupidmarket people that people need to eat
"HEALTHIER"

The net result is the markets for the most part have dropped USDA Choice
beef in favor of USDA Select.



>> I don't know that the quality of meat offered for sale has been
>> declining, but I can say that there has been some jiggering and
>> redefining and it can be difficult at times to make head or tails of what
>> is being sold.

The other factor, IMHO the AVERAGE shopper has no idea what to look for as
far as a cut of beef is concerned. The ultimately look for non-marbled red
red beef, then they wonder why it reacts like shoe leather.

In addition 90% of the people behind the meat counter have no idea what they
are talking about. No more butchers in the markets seldom meat cutters,
just stock clerks for pre-packaged meats.

I was in Ralphs several months ago, buying them out of the boneless chuck
roasts @ 1.88 per pound. There was a checker on her break chatting with the
MEAT CUTTER. Both asked why I was buying the whole tray (8 roasts). I
explained for Pot Roasts. I ended up holding a class on Braising and how to
make a tender pot roast. Neither the checker not the "meat cutter" had any
idea how to braise meat.

Now how can they help a customer - they CAN'T.


If you want GOOD Food you simply need to educate yourself and be willing to
pay the price for quality.
Or get rich and hire a personal chef.

Dimitri

Thank you for your comments. I read them all. Yes, I agree on your comment
about unhelpful help that doesn't know what is going on, but in our
society the push is for "cheap" anywhere you can get it and to hell with
"quality". My wife and I are coming around to the idea that we're going to
have to scrutinize the meat situation, and be more careful about our
sources. Thanks again.

On Thu, 23 Apr 2009, Dimitri wrote:

> Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 10:43:47 -0700
> From: Dimitri >
> Newsgroups: rec.food.cooking
> Subject: Is meat quality (for grilling) going down?
>
> "Stray Dog" > wrote in message
> r.org...
>>
>> On Wed, 22 Apr 2009, Pennyaline wrote:
>>
>>> Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 18:33:08 -0600
>>> From: Pennyaline >
>>> Newsgroups: rec.food.cooking
>>> Subject: Is meat quality (for grilling) going down?
>>>
>>> Stray Dog wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> question: Is meat quality going down?
>
> No the quality has not changed the formulation for the feed lots and the FAT
> POLICE have convinced the stupidmarket people that people need to eat
> "HEALTHIER"
>
> The net result is the markets for the most part have dropped USDA Choice beef
> in favor of USDA Select.
>
>
>
>>> I don't know that the quality of meat offered for sale has been declining,
>>> but I can say that there has been some jiggering and redefining and it can
>>> be difficult at times to make head or tails of what is being sold.
>
> The other factor, IMHO the AVERAGE shopper has no idea what to look for as
> far as a cut of beef is concerned. The ultimately look for non-marbled red
> red beef, then they wonder why it reacts like shoe leather.
>
> In addition 90% of the people behind the meat counter have no idea what they
> are talking about. No more butchers in the markets seldom meat cutters, just
> stock clerks for pre-packaged meats.
>
> I was in Ralphs several months ago, buying them out of the boneless chuck
> roasts @ 1.88 per pound. There was a checker on her break chatting with the
> MEAT CUTTER. Both asked why I was buying the whole tray (8 roasts). I
> explained for Pot Roasts. I ended up holding a class on Braising and how to
> make a tender pot roast. Neither the checker not the "meat cutter" had any
> idea how to braise meat.
>
> Now how can they help a customer - they CAN'T.
>
>
> If you want GOOD Food you simply need to educate yourself and be willing to
> pay the price for quality.
> Or get rich and hire a personal chef.
>
> Dimitri
>
>
>
>

On Thu, 23 Apr 2009, Omelet wrote:

> Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 12:42:07 -0500
> From: Omelet >
> Newsgroups: rec.food.cooking
> Subject: Is meat quality (for grilling) going down?
>
> In article
> >,
> " > wrote:
>
>> The problem with getting inferior quality meat began when people
>> started becoming fat concious. The meat you find in the supermarket
>> today has almost no fat in it. Fat is necessary for flavor,
>> juiciness, and tenderness.

We found out about this the hard way. We went to low-fat-high-price
hamburger meat (all part of the health hype) and were wondering why the
taste went to hell. So we decided "you only live once" and went back
to the high-fat-low-price hamburger and we were amazed! All the taste and
flavor came right back.

>> The restaurants get all the good meat.

That's unfair!!!


Thanks for your comments.

>> Another problem is all this boneless crap they're selling. They've
>> removed the bone to make it more convenient for the consumer but
>> they've also removed a lot of the flavor. The bone, along with the
>> fat, provides a great deal of flavor to a piece of meat.
>
> The meat right up against the bone is always the best. ;-d
> I don't hesitate to pick the bone up and gnaw it off!
> --
> Peace! Om
>
> Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass.
> It's about learning to dance in the rain.
> -- Anon.
>

"Stray Dog" > wrote in message
.org...
>
> Thank you for your comments. I read them all. Yes, I agree on your comment
> about unhelpful help that doesn't know what is going on, but in our
> society the push is for "cheap" anywhere you can get it and to hell with
> "quality". My wife and I are coming around to the idea that we're going to
> have to scrutinize the meat situation, and be more careful about our
> sources. Thanks again.


If you have a Costco or a Sam's near by you'll find as a matter of policy
they are stocking USDA Choice. Sam's if you get there at the right time of
the day ( it varies with each store) thy will mark down their meat if it's
too close to the sell by date.

There are also some methods for dry aging in your fridge. Google "Dry aging
at home"

This is a pretty good chart and guide as far as cooking is concerned:

http://www.certifiedangusbeef.com/ch...oster_4047.pdf

The final point is to understand how to cook beef, steaks, What cuts are
best for the different uses, and learning to REST meat before serving will
add greatly to your success. Remember meat does not stop cooking just
because you take it off the grill.

Dimitri

On Thu, 23 Apr 2009, Omelet wrote:

> Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 12:25:49 -0500
> From: Omelet >
> Newsgroups: rec.food.cooking
> Subject: Is meat quality (for grilling) going down?
>
> In article >,
> Stray Dog > wrote:
>
>> Thanks for your comments.
>
> Welcome!
>
>> Its only been recently (last few years, and in
>> increasing frequency) that we've been disatisfied with an increasing
>> fraction of what comes off our grill. And, I have not changed the way I do
>> things, either. We still get a lot of good steaks, but we're getting more
>> bad ones.
>
> Seriously, check out the saline injection issue.
> It's a biggy and some stores do it more than others.
> They do it to chicken and pork too.

Yeah, we kinda discovered this (actually my wife is the "food whip" here)
and we were discussing why some turkeys (around thanksgiving time, you
know) tasted dry and tasteless and like cardboard and some tasted good,
moist, juicy, and tasty and, yes, there is a trick to the oven work and
stuff to watch out for when you buy a turkey (sorry, I don't remember the
"secret" details but part of it is using a thermometer and cooking to
temperature, not time).

>> And, I've noticed it over the years with flounder at
>> restaurants. Way in the past I often got good ones with that wonderful
>> texture/taste that I don't know how to describe, but today they've got
>> everything pre-cooked-whatever and just microwave it up and bring it out
>> two minutes after we give our order (in the old days, it took 20-30
>> minutes).
>
> I feel you on that one! We rarely eat out any more for a number of
> reasons.

Well, we go around to restaurants and see what they give us. The rule is
simple: if we like it, we go back for more. If we don't like it, we don't
go back. Its an "R&D investment."

Another rule: if we think they might benefit from feedback advice, we give
them our report and advice. Usually the better places actually listen and
tell us some things, and the crappy places act aloof and defensive and
give us the "blowoff" treatment.

But, I long for the days of heavenly flounder. I'm not a "gourmet" guy but
I really like this, and prefer it not messed up with spices and junk, and
its hard to find. Another one I love is halibut, also pretty plain. I'm
more of a texture person than a taste/flavor person (and my wife prefers
the lobster/crab/clams stuff), but halibut is also hard to find. Once in a
while I do break down and pay throught the nose (that stuff can be up to
$10+/pound or so) and grill it on charcoal but not for the charcoal, just
to do it outside so we don't get the fish smell in the house. Generally I
make a aluminum foil "boat" and use a wee bit of spice and oil and butter
and basically poach the fish and I've _very_ satisfied with what I get.
But, I have to buy on the same day I cook because I hate the fish smell
appearing in the refrigerator and I don't want to freeze the fish, either.

Thanks for your comments.


> --
> Peace! Om
>
> Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass.
> It's about learning to dance in the rain.
> -- Anon.
>

In article >,
Stray Dog > wrote:

> But, I long for the days of heavenly flounder. I'm not a "gourmet" guy but
> I really like this, and prefer it not messed up with spices and junk, and
> its hard to find. Another one I love is halibut, also pretty plain. I'm
> more of a texture person than a taste/flavor person (and my wife prefers
> the lobster/crab/clams stuff), but halibut is also hard to find. Once in a
> while I do break down and pay throught the nose (that stuff can be up to
> $10+/pound or so) and grill it on charcoal but not for the charcoal, just
> to do it outside so we don't get the fish smell in the house. Generally I
> make a aluminum foil "boat" and use a wee bit of spice and oil and butter
> and basically poach the fish and I've _very_ satisfied with what I get.
> But, I have to buy on the same day I cook because I hate the fish smell
> appearing in the refrigerator and I don't want to freeze the fish, either.
>
> Thanks for your comments.

IMO, cooking your own fish at home is the best way. Despite the high
price per lb. at the store, it's still cheaper than eating out. I
personally do like poached fish, or electro-grilled. I've also baked
Salmon with good success.

To get rid of "fish smell" in the house, burn some incense.

I prefer "Gonesh".
--
Peace! Om

Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass.
It's about learning to dance in the rain.
-- Anon.