This is rich:

"[Stewart] Parnell sat stiffly, his hands folded in his lap at the
witness table, as Rep. Greg Walden, R-Ore., held up a clear jar of his
company's products wrapped in crime scene tape and asked him if he
would be willing to eat the food."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090211/...nella_outbreak

I want to hurt him.
--

modom

"modom (palindrome guy)" wrote:
>
> This is rich:
>
> "[Stewart] Parnell sat stiffly, his hands folded in his lap at the
> witness table, as Rep. Greg Walden, R-Ore., held up a clear jar of his
> company's products wrapped in crime scene tape and asked him if he
> would be willing to eat the food."
>
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090211/...nella_outbreak
>
> I want to hurt him.
> --
>
> modom

Make me glad I'm not a big peanut fan...

On Wed, 11 Feb 2009 14:06:18 -0600, "modom (palindrome guy)"
> wrote:

>This is rich:
>
>"[Stewart] Parnell sat stiffly, his hands folded in his lap at the
>witness table, as Rep. Greg Walden, R-Ore., held up a clear jar of his
>company's products wrapped in crime scene tape and asked him if he
>would be willing to eat the food."
>
>http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090211/...nella_outbreak
>
>I want to hurt him.


I wonder how much tainted product has been sold and for how long. I
feel that we are seeing only the tip of the iceberg.

My little boys eat peanut butter at least once a day when we are home
from school. They eat peanut butter toast for breakfast or a peanut
butter sandwich for lunch. Some days they eat both. I know that
jarred peanut butter is not yet recalled, but I'm not feeling very
confident.

The fox has been guarding the hen house for too long.

Tara

On Feb 11, 12:06*pm, "modom (palindrome guy)" >
wrote:
> This is rich:
>
> "[Stewart] Parnell sat stiffly, his hands folded in his lap at the
> witness table, as Rep. Greg Walden, R-Ore., held up a clear jar of his
> company's products wrapped in crime scene tape and asked him if he
> would be willing to eat the food."
>
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090211/...nella_outbreak
>
> I want to hurt him.
> --
>
> modom

What a P.O.S.

modom (palindrome guy) wrote:
> This is rich:
>
> "[Stewart] Parnell sat stiffly, his hands folded in his lap at the
> witness table, as Rep. Greg Walden, R-Ore., held up a clear jar of his
> company's products wrapped in crime scene tape and asked him if he
> would be willing to eat the food."
>
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090211/...nella_outbreak
>
> I want to hurt him.
> --
>
> modom



It's times like that when the Fifth Amendment sucks.

gloria p

"modom (palindrome guy)" wrote:
>
> This is rich:
>
> "[Stewart] Parnell sat stiffly, his hands folded in his lap at the
> witness table, as Rep. Greg Walden, R-Ore., held up a clear jar of his
> company's products wrapped in crime scene tape and asked him if he
> would be willing to eat the food."
>
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090211/...nella_outbreak
>
> I want to hurt him.

More interesting to me is this sentence:

"She testified that Peanut Corp. officials said they believed the
salmonella came from organic Chinese peanuts."

That seems like a plausible theory to me. China has recently
emerged as the largest producer of peanuts. "Organic" in Chinese
means "we can't afford chemicals and we use manure for fertilizer".
(If you're lucky, it'll be animal manure.)

Gloria P wrote:

> modom (palindrome guy) wrote:
> > This is rich:
> >
> > "[Stewart] Parnell sat stiffly, his hands folded in his lap at the
> > witness table, as Rep. Greg Walden, R-Ore., held up a clear jar of his
> > company's products wrapped in crime scene tape and asked him if he
> > would be willing to eat the food."
> >
> > http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090211/...nella_outbreak
> >
> > I want to hurt him.
> > --
> >
> > modom
>
>
>
> It's times like that when the Fifth Amendment sucks.


It's times like that when I think we should emulate China and execute the
perps who foist their economic crimes upon us...


--
Best
Greg

Gregory Morrow wrote:
>
> Gloria P wrote:
>
> > modom (palindrome guy) wrote:
> > > This is rich:
> > >
> > > "[Stewart] Parnell sat stiffly, his hands folded in his lap at the
> > > witness table, as Rep. Greg Walden, R-Ore., held up a clear jar of his
> > > company's products wrapped in crime scene tape and asked him if he
> > > would be willing to eat the food."
> > >
> > > http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090211/...nella_outbreak
> > >
> > > I want to hurt him.
> > > --
> > >
> > > modom
> >
> >
> >
> > It's times like that when the Fifth Amendment sucks.
>
> It's times like that when I think we should emulate China and execute the
> perps who foist their economic crimes upon us...

Since there are apparently a number of deaths linked to this apparently
willful shipment of products known to be contaminated, it isn't just an
economic crime.

modom (palindrome guy) wrote:
> This is rich:
>
> "[Stewart] Parnell sat stiffly, his hands folded in his lap at the
> witness table, as Rep. Greg Walden, R-Ore., held up a clear jar of his
> company's products wrapped in crime scene tape and asked him if he
> would be willing to eat the food."
>
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090211/...nella_outbreak
>
> I want to hurt him.
> --
>
> modom

That creep has caused other companies soo much harm--and sickened
and even killed innocent people. Yeah...

--
Jean B.

Mark Thorson wrote:
> "modom (palindrome guy)" wrote:
>> This is rich:
>>
>> "[Stewart] Parnell sat stiffly, his hands folded in his lap at the
>> witness table, as Rep. Greg Walden, R-Ore., held up a clear jar of his
>> company's products wrapped in crime scene tape and asked him if he
>> would be willing to eat the food."
>>
>> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090211/...nella_outbreak
>>
>> I want to hurt him.
>
> More interesting to me is this sentence:
>
> "She testified that Peanut Corp. officials said they believed the
> salmonella came from organic Chinese peanuts."
>
> That seems like a plausible theory to me. China has recently
> emerged as the largest producer of peanuts. "Organic" in Chinese
> means "we can't afford chemicals and we use manure for fertilizer".
> (If you're lucky, it'll be animal manure.)

Still...

I have pondered the meaning of organic for a long time--and the
what it means when the organic produce (and non-organic produce)
comes from certain areas of the world.

--
Jean B.

Van Chocstraw wrote:
> modom (palindrome guy) wrote:
>> This is rich:
>>
>> "[Stewart] Parnell sat stiffly, his hands folded in his lap at the
>> witness table, as Rep. Greg Walden, R-Ore., held up a clear jar of his
>> company's products wrapped in crime scene tape and asked him if he
>> would be willing to eat the food."
>>
>> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090211/...nella_outbreak
>>
>> I want to hurt him.
>> --
>>
>> modom
>
> I still eat peanuts and natural peanut butter. It was just another
> overblown scare that paralyzed the schizophrenic American consumer.
>
>
>


Yabbut real people died, IRL.

gloria p

On Feb 12, 11:52*am, "Jean B." > wrote:
> Mark Thorson wrote:
> > "modom (palindrome guy)" wrote:
> >> This is rich:
>
> >> "[Stewart] Parnell sat stiffly, his hands folded in his lap at the
> >> witness table, as Rep. Greg Walden, R-Ore., held up a clear jar of his
> >> company's products wrapped in crime scene tape and asked him if he
> >> would be willing to eat the food."
>
> >>http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090211/...nella_outbreak
>
> >> I want to hurt him.
>
> > More interesting to me is this sentence:
>
> > "She testified that Peanut Corp. officials said they believed the
> > salmonella came from organic Chinese peanuts."
>
> > That seems like a plausible theory to me. *China has recently
> > emerged as the largest producer of peanuts. *"Organic" in Chinese
> > means "we can't afford chemicals and we use manure for fertilizer".
> > (If you're lucky, it'll be animal manure.)
>
> Still...
>
> I have pondered the meaning of organic for a long time--and the
> what it means when the organic produce (and non-organic produce)
> comes from certain areas of the world.
>
> --
> Jean B.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Off topic, but I want to know what fashion and home designers mean
when they say a design is very organic. Huh?

N.

On Feb 12, 8:24*am, Van Chocstraw >
wrote:
> modom (palindrome guy) wrote:
> > This is rich:
>
> > "[Stewart] Parnell sat stiffly, his hands folded in his lap at the
> > witness table, as Rep. Greg Walden, R-Ore., held up a clear jar of his
> > company's products wrapped in crime scene tape and asked him if he
> > would be willing to eat the food."
>
> >http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090211/...nella_outbreak
>
> > I want to hurt him.
> > --
>
> > modom
>
> I still eat peanuts and natural peanut butter. It was just another
> overblown scare that paralyzed the schizophrenic American consumer.
>
> --
> <<//--------------------\\>>
> * * * * Van Chocstraw
> *>>\\--------------------//<<

Jarred peanut butter doesn't come from that plant.

N.

"Jean B." > wrote in message
...
> Mark Thorson wrote:
>> "modom (palindrome guy)" wrote:
>>> This is rich:
>>>
>>> "[Stewart] Parnell sat stiffly, his hands folded in his lap at the
>>> witness table, as Rep. Greg Walden, R-Ore., held up a clear jar of his
>>> company's products wrapped in crime scene tape and asked him if he
>>> would be willing to eat the food."
>>>
>>> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090211/...nella_outbreak
>>>
>>> I want to hurt him.
>>
>> More interesting to me is this sentence:
>>
>> "She testified that Peanut Corp. officials said they believed the
>> salmonella came from organic Chinese peanuts."
>>
>> That seems like a plausible theory to me. China has recently
>> emerged as the largest producer of peanuts. "Organic" in Chinese
>> means "we can't afford chemicals and we use manure for fertilizer".
>> (If you're lucky, it'll be animal manure.)
>
> Still...
>
> I have pondered the meaning of organic for a long time--and the what it
> means when the organic produce (and non-organic produce) comes from
> certain areas of the world.
>
> --
> Jean B.

Organic and non-organic are the same thing. Because you really don't know if
you buy from a stupidmarket, do you?

On Feb 12, 1:56*pm, Nancy2 > wrote:

> Off topic, but I want to know what fashion and home designers mean
> when they say a design is very organic. *Huh?
>
> N.

Possibly one or more of the following (from dictionary.com), perhaps
#13:

7. characterized by the systematic arrangement of parts; organized;
systematic: elements fitting together into a unified, organic whole.
8. of or pertaining to the basic constitution or structure of a thing;
constitutional; structural: The flaws in your writing are too organic
to be easily remedied.
9. developing in a manner analogous to the natural growth and
evolution characteristic of living organisms; arising as a natural
outgrowth.
10. viewing or explaining something as having a growth and development
analogous to that of living organisms: an organic theory of history.
13. Architecture. noting or pertaining to any work of architecture
regarded as analogous to plant or animal forms in having a structure
and a plan that fulfill perfectly the functional requirements for the
building and that form in themselves an intellectually lucid,
integrated whole.
14. Fine Arts. of or pertaining to the shapes or forms in a work of
art that are of irregular contour and seem to resemble or suggest
forms found in nature.

Cindy Hamilton

Nancy2 wrote:
>
> Off topic, but I want to know what fashion and home designers mean
> when they say a design is very organic. Huh?

Does everything have to have a specific meaning?
Is it illegal to sell something with words that
sound good to the buyer's ears, but don't really
mean a thing? If they say a design is "integrated",
will you make some snarky comment like "Integrated
with what?"?

Mark Thorson wrote:
>
> Nancy2 wrote:
> >
> > Off topic, but I want to know what fashion and home designers mean
> > when they say a design is very organic. Huh?

Organic = random, sloppy, lacking order, lacking straight lines, etc.

On Thu, 12 Feb 2009 10:56:11 -0800 (PST), Nancy2
> wrote:
>
>Off topic, but I want to know what fashion and home designers mean
>when they say a design is very organic. Huh?
>
"Organic" can be used in a design sense in a number of ways. Frank
Lloyd Wright called his project "organic architecture," by which he
apparently meant that the functionality of a design -- house, factory,
hotel, whatever -- was integral to what it should look like. In this
sense, "organic" is derived from the design philosophy behind the
great Louis Sullivan's motto "form follows function." An organic
structure would be *organized* according to principles that are
analogous to the *organizing* of *organs* in a healthy body.

Wright's designs can be called organic in another sense, as well: when
they are most successful, they seem wholly integrated into their
environment. Falling Water is one such design. The cantilevers
reflect the local land and incorporate the landscape into the building
as much as the building is incorporated into the landscape. Part of
the living room floor is actually the stone outcrop on which it was
built. In the sense of becoming part of the environment, the
architecture is "organic." (I'm speaking of the visual, metaphorical
and spatial qualities of the building here. I'll set aside the
structural problems it has faced in recent years.) In this Wright
appears to have been responding to the influence of Japanese farmhouse
designs with their integration of inside and outside (sliding walls,
e.g.)and their harmonious proportions based on modules like tatami
mats.

Organic designs don't have to be Wright-like, however. Often a
designer will say something is organic if it seems somehow to do its
job effortlessly -- cover a body, decorate and enhance a space, etc.
"Organic" in this sense seems to refer to a quality of naturalness, of
being inherently right for the job it is designed to do. Or, to
return to the idea of harmony, a design can be called organic if its
structure reflects in an elegant way one of the several means for
achieving harmony in a visual expression -- rhythm, repetition,
interpenetration, etc. On the birthday of Charles Darwin, it would
seem right to note that this last sense of "organic" hints at an
attitude towards design which seeks to present a naturalness that
belies the existence of the designer. This sort of organic design
looks like it just happened naturally.

OBFood: Several farmers in my area advertise that they are NOT
certified organic. They are more stringent about sustainable
agriculture than the USDA certification rules recognize. Being
certified organic would be a step down in their eyes.

This may have something to do with the fact that it is possible to
make organic Twinkies under the regulations which currently define the
use of that term as it applies to food in the US.
--
modom

ambitious when it comes to fiddling with meat

On Thu, 12 Feb 2009 17:24:28 -0600, "Pete C." >
wrote:

>
>Mark Thorson wrote:
>>
>> Nancy2 wrote:
>> >
>> > Off topic, but I want to know what fashion and home designers mean
>> > when they say a design is very organic. Huh?
>
>Organic = random, sloppy, lacking order, lacking straight lines, etc.

Nope.
--

modom

On Feb 12, 11:42*pm, "modom (palindrome guy)" >
wrote:
> On Thu, 12 Feb 2009 10:56:11 -0800 (PST), > wrote:
>
> >Off topic, but I want to know what fashion and home designers mean
> >when they say a design is very organic. *Huh?
>
> "Organic" can be used in a design sense in a number of ways. *Frank
> Lloyd Wright called his project "organic architecture," by which he
> apparently meant that the functionality of a design -- house, factory,
> hotel, whatever -- was integral to what it should look like. *In this
> sense, "organic" is derived from the design philosophy behind the
> great Louis Sullivan's motto "form follows function." *An organic
> structure would be *organized* according to principles that are
> analogous to the *organizing* of *organs* in a healthy body.
>
> Wright's designs can be called organic in another sense, as well: when
> they are most successful, they seem wholly integrated into their
> environment. *Falling Water is one such design. *The cantilevers
> reflect the local land and incorporate the landscape into the building
> as much as the building is incorporated into the landscape. *Part of
> the living room floor is actually the stone outcrop on which it was
> built. *In the sense of becoming part of the environment, the
> architecture is "organic." *(I'm speaking of the visual, metaphorical
> and spatial qualities of the building here. *I'll set aside the
> structural problems it has faced in recent years.) *In this Wright
> appears to have been responding to the influence of Japanese farmhouse
> designs with their integration of inside and outside (sliding walls,
> e.g.)and their harmonious proportions based on modules like tatami
> mats.
>
> Organic designs don't have to be Wright-like, however. *Often a
> designer will say something is organic if it seems somehow to do its
> job effortlessly *-- cover a body, decorate and enhance a space, etc.
> "Organic" in this sense seems to refer to a quality of naturalness, of
> being inherently right for the job it is designed to do. *Or, to
> return to the idea of harmony, a design can be called organic if its
> structure reflects in an elegant way one of the several means for
> achieving harmony in a visual expression -- rhythm, repetition,
> interpenetration, etc. *On the birthday of Charles Darwin, it would
> seem right to note that this last sense of "organic" hints at an
> attitude towards design which seeks to present a naturalness that
> belies the existence of the designer. *This sort of organic design
> looks like it just happened naturally.
>
> OBFood: Several farmers in my area advertise that they are NOT
> certified organic. *They are more stringent about sustainable
> agriculture than the USDA certification rules recognize. *Being
> certified organic would be a step down in their eyes.
>
> This may have something to do with the fact that it is possible to
> make organic Twinkies under the regulations which currently define the
> use of that term as it applies to food in the US.

You remind me that a local bakery makes "Over the Moon Pies":
two discs of moist chocolate cake with a layer of buttercream between
them, all coated in chocolate. You can taste the butter in them.
Not organic.

I bet they could make a very nice Twinkie if they wanted to. They
might
even be able make it organic.

Cindy Hamilton

"modom (palindrome guy)" wrote:
>
> On Thu, 12 Feb 2009 17:24:28 -0600, "Pete C." >
> wrote:
>
> >
> >Mark Thorson wrote:
> >>
> >> Nancy2 wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Off topic, but I want to know what fashion and home designers mean
> >> > when they say a design is very organic. Huh?
> >
> >Organic = random, sloppy, lacking order, lacking straight lines, etc.
>
> Nope.

Perception is reality, and that is my perception of designs that are
touted as "organic".

Pete wrote on Fri, 13 Feb 2009 09:07:16 -0600:


> "modom (palindrome guy)" wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, 12 Feb 2009 17:24:28 -0600, "Pete C." >
>> wrote:
>>
> >> Mark Thorson wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Nancy2 wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Off topic, but I want to know what fashion and home
> >> >> designers mean when they say a design is very organic.
> >> >> Huh?
> >>
> >> Organic = random, sloppy, lacking order, lacking straight
> >> lines, etc.
>>
>> Nope.

>Perception is reality, and that is my perception of designs that are
>touted as "organic".

Japanese, Chinese and Swiss farming with night soil and barn waste
squirted on the crops is often considered "organic".

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 09:07:16 -0600, "Pete C." >
wrote:

>
>"modom (palindrome guy)" wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, 12 Feb 2009 17:24:28 -0600, "Pete C." >
>> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >Mark Thorson wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Nancy2 wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > Off topic, but I want to know what fashion and home designers mean
>> >> > when they say a design is very organic. Huh?
>> >
>> >Organic = random, sloppy, lacking order, lacking straight lines, etc.
>>
>> Nope.
>
>Perception is reality, and that is my perception of designs that are
>touted as "organic".

http://tinyurl.com/5yqflg

This is an example of organic architecture in one sense of the term.
At least the architect called it organic.
--

modom

modom wrote on Fri, 13 Feb 2009 10:03:55 -0600:

>> "modom (palindrome guy)" wrote:
>>>
>>> On Thu, 12 Feb 2009 17:24:28 -0600, "Pete C." >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>> >> Mark Thorson wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Nancy2 wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Off topic, but I want to know what fashion and home
>> >> >> designers mean when they say a design is very organic.
>> >> >> Huh?
>> >>
>> >> Organic = random, sloppy, lacking order, lacking straight
>> >> lines, etc.
>>>
>>> Nope.
>>
>> Perception is reality, and that is my perception of designs
>> that are touted as "organic".

> http://tinyurl.com/5yqflg

> This is an example of organic architecture in one sense of the
> term. At least the architect called it organic.

I knew a man who apprenticed in Wright's workshop who always maintained
that Wright's roofs leaked. I also wonder how well some of the
spectacular architecture of, say, Norman Foster, works for its real
purposes. Louis Sullivan, the great introducer of modern architecture
said "Form follows function" and it does not always seem to these days.
--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

"modom (palindrome guy)" wrote:
>
> On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 09:07:16 -0600, "Pete C." >
> wrote:
>
> >
> >"modom (palindrome guy)" wrote:
> >>
> >> On Thu, 12 Feb 2009 17:24:28 -0600, "Pete C." >
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >Mark Thorson wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Nancy2 wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Off topic, but I want to know what fashion and home designers mean
> >> >> > when they say a design is very organic. Huh?
> >> >
> >> >Organic = random, sloppy, lacking order, lacking straight lines, etc.
> >>
> >> Nope.
> >
> >Perception is reality, and that is my perception of designs that are
> >touted as "organic".
>
> http://tinyurl.com/5yqflg
>
> This is an example of organic architecture in one sense of the term.
> At least the architect called it organic.

Yes, I'm well aware of that famous example. I also don't particularly
care for it.

On Thu, 12 Feb 2009 15:23:25 -0800, Mark Thorson wrote:

> Nancy2 wrote:
>>
>> Off topic, but I want to know what fashion and home designers mean
>> when they say a design is very organic. Huh?
>
> Does everything have to have a specific meaning?
> Is it illegal to sell something with words that
> sound good to the buyer's ears, but don't really
> mean a thing? If they say a design is "integrated",
> will you make some snarky comment like "Integrated
> with what?"?

it means both white and colored peoples can buy it.

your pal,
blake

On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 16:17:02 GMT, James Silverton wrote:

> modom wrote on Fri, 13 Feb 2009 10:03:55 -0600:
>
>>> "modom (palindrome guy)" wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, 12 Feb 2009 17:24:28 -0600, "Pete C." >
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>> >> Mark Thorson wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Nancy2 wrote:
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Off topic, but I want to know what fashion and home
>>> >> >> designers mean when they say a design is very organic.
>>> >> >> Huh?
>>> >>
>>> >> Organic = random, sloppy, lacking order, lacking straight
>>> >> lines, etc.
>>>>
>>>> Nope.
>>>
>>> Perception is reality, and that is my perception of designs
>>> that are touted as "organic".
>
>> http://tinyurl.com/5yqflg
>
>> This is an example of organic architecture in one sense of the
>> term. At least the architect called it organic.
>
> I knew a man who apprenticed in Wright's workshop who always maintained
> that Wright's roofs leaked. I also wonder how well some of the
> spectacular architecture of, say, Norman Foster, works for its real
> purposes. Louis Sullivan, the great introducer of modern architecture
> said "Form follows function" and it does not always seem to these days.

wright was a nut. many of his homes were notorious for being practically
unlivable - leaky roofs, condensation on floors, stuff like that.

plus, if a buyer was impertinent enough to alter his furniture
arrangements, wright would go in an re-arrange them.

your pal,
blake

On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 11:25:09 -0600, "Pete C." >
wrote:

>
>"modom (palindrome guy)" wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 09:07:16 -0600, "Pete C." >
>> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >"modom (palindrome guy)" wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, 12 Feb 2009 17:24:28 -0600, "Pete C." >
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >Mark Thorson wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Nancy2 wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Off topic, but I want to know what fashion and home designers mean
>> >> >> > when they say a design is very organic. Huh?
>> >> >
>> >> >Organic = random, sloppy, lacking order, lacking straight lines, etc.
>> >>
>> >> Nope.
>> >
>> >Perception is reality, and that is my perception of designs that are
>> >touted as "organic".
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/5yqflg
>>
>> This is an example of organic architecture in one sense of the term.
>> At least the architect called it organic.
>
>Yes, I'm well aware of that famous example. I also don't particularly
>care for it.

Okay by me.

But Fallingwater is neither random, nor sloppy. Neither does it lack
order or straight lines. And yet it is an example of organic design.

"modom (palindrome guy)" wrote:
>
> On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 11:25:09 -0600, "Pete C." >
> wrote:
>
> >
> >"modom (palindrome guy)" wrote:
> >>
> >> On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 09:07:16 -0600, "Pete C." >
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >"modom (palindrome guy)" wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> On Thu, 12 Feb 2009 17:24:28 -0600, "Pete C." >
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Mark Thorson wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Nancy2 wrote:
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Off topic, but I want to know what fashion and home designers mean
> >> >> >> > when they say a design is very organic. Huh?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Organic = random, sloppy, lacking order, lacking straight lines, etc.
> >> >>
> >> >> Nope.
> >> >
> >> >Perception is reality, and that is my perception of designs that are
> >> >touted as "organic".
> >>
> >> http://tinyurl.com/5yqflg
> >>
> >> This is an example of organic architecture in one sense of the term.
> >> At least the architect called it organic.
> >
> >Yes, I'm well aware of that famous example. I also don't particularly
> >care for it.
>
> Okay by me.
>
> But Fallingwater is neither random, nor sloppy. Neither does it lack
> order or straight lines. And yet it is an example of organic design.

I see randomness in the design. The construction is/was sloppy and
poorly engineered so they've have to repair and rebuild portions of it.
I see a lack of order in it. The only thing it does have is straight
lines.

"James Silverton" schrieb :
<snip>
> Japanese, Chinese and Swiss farming with night soil and barn waste
> squirted on the crops is often considered "organic".
>
You have no idea of farming, I guess ?
The night soil is applied to the fields before the ground is ploughed under.
Squirting it on the crops <shaking head> ...

Cheers,

Michael Kuettner

On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 13:58:35 -0600, "Pete C." >
wrote:

>
>"modom (palindrome guy)" wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 11:25:09 -0600, "Pete C." >
>> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >"modom (palindrome guy)" wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 09:07:16 -0600, "Pete C." >
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >"modom (palindrome guy)" wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On Thu, 12 Feb 2009 17:24:28 -0600, "Pete C." >
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Mark Thorson wrote:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Nancy2 wrote:
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > Off topic, but I want to know what fashion and home designers mean
>> >> >> >> > when they say a design is very organic. Huh?
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Organic = random, sloppy, lacking order, lacking straight lines, etc.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Nope.
>> >> >
>> >> >Perception is reality, and that is my perception of designs that are
>> >> >touted as "organic".
>> >>
>> >> http://tinyurl.com/5yqflg
>> >>
>> >> This is an example of organic architecture in one sense of the term.
>> >> At least the architect called it organic.
>> >
>> >Yes, I'm well aware of that famous example. I also don't particularly
>> >care for it.
>>
>> Okay by me.
>>
>> But Fallingwater is neither random, nor sloppy. Neither does it lack
>> order or straight lines. And yet it is an example of organic design.
>
>I see randomness in the design. The construction is/was sloppy and
>poorly engineered so they've have to repair and rebuild portions of it.
>I see a lack of order in it. The only thing it does have is straight
>lines.

Pete, my man, you're talking silly stuff here.

"Designated as a National Historic Landmark, Fallingwater was also
named by the American Institute of Architects in 2000 as the 'Building
of the Century.'"

Above quote is from:
http://pittsburgh.about.com/cs/falli...llingwater.htm

"In 1991 AIA members voted it the 'best all-time work of American
architecture.'"

Above quote from:
http://blog.aia.org/favorites/2007/0..._fallingw.html

The American Institute of Architects ain't exactly a bunch of hobos.

Or consider the words of an art critic with 25 years experience in the
business of interpreting visual works (me):

The structure consists of rhythmic variations on a set of horizontal
planes anchored by the great mass of the vertical stone chimney,
itself composed of horizontally oriented sandstone blocks. The
numerous repetitions of cantilevered rectangles also harmonize with
the steel forms comprising the structural members of the casement
windows. The cantilevers and casement windows also brilliantly open
up the space of the building, increasing its spatial integration into
its environment. Note further how the large cantilever just above the
falls reflects (in a regularized, geometric manner) the native stone
shelf in the fall itself.

Alternatively consider the words of a man who has taught college
courses in design for almost three decades (me again):

These repetitions in a work of visual expression serve several related
functions. They are analogous to rhymes in poetry, for example. Also
as rhythmic elements, they constitute a visual analog to metre in
poetry or the beat of a musical score. The designer chose to vary his
rhythms, as a composer might let his music swell and ebb at times, or
might set one rhythm against another to increase the interest in a
piece.

None of this remotely resembles randomness.

Also, you might listen to the words of someone who has walked the
building's halls (me again):

I have toured Fallingwater a few times, and I can assure you it is not
sloppy in the least. The fittings in the interior are exquisitely
crafted. http://tinyurl.com/d3yrgg and http://tinyurl.com/cl9xbn are
examples. The rusticated stone work in the great chimney is subtle
and elegant both outside and inside the structure.

As to the fact that it needed extensive work in the 90s and 00s, I
hold no opinion. Remember I speak of what it looks like, not of its
mechanical engineering. My interest is its appearance.
--
modom

ambitious when it comes to fiddling with meat

"modom (palindrome guy)" wrote:
>
> On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 13:58:35 -0600, "Pete C." >
> wrote:
>
> >
> >"modom (palindrome guy)" wrote:
> >>
> >> On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 11:25:09 -0600, "Pete C." >
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >"modom (palindrome guy)" wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 09:07:16 -0600, "Pete C." >
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >"modom (palindrome guy)" wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> On Thu, 12 Feb 2009 17:24:28 -0600, "Pete C." >
> >> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >Mark Thorson wrote:
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> Nancy2 wrote:
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> > Off topic, but I want to know what fashion and home designers mean
> >> >> >> >> > when they say a design is very organic. Huh?
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >Organic = random, sloppy, lacking order, lacking straight lines, etc.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Nope.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Perception is reality, and that is my perception of designs that are
> >> >> >touted as "organic".
> >> >>
> >> >> http://tinyurl.com/5yqflg
> >> >>
> >> >> This is an example of organic architecture in one sense of the term.
> >> >> At least the architect called it organic.
> >> >
> >> >Yes, I'm well aware of that famous example. I also don't particularly
> >> >care for it.
> >>
> >> Okay by me.
> >>
> >> But Fallingwater is neither random, nor sloppy. Neither does it lack
> >> order or straight lines. And yet it is an example of organic design.
> >
> >I see randomness in the design. The construction is/was sloppy and
> >poorly engineered so they've have to repair and rebuild portions of it.
> >I see a lack of order in it. The only thing it does have is straight
> >lines.
>
> Pete, my man, you're talking silly stuff here.
>
> "Designated as a National Historic Landmark, Fallingwater was also
> named by the American Institute of Architects in 2000 as the 'Building
> of the Century.'"
>
> Above quote is from:
> http://pittsburgh.about.com/cs/falli...llingwater.htm
>
> "In 1991 AIA members voted it the 'best all-time work of American
> architecture.'"
>
> Above quote from:
> http://blog.aia.org/favorites/2007/0..._fallingw.html
>
> The American Institute of Architects ain't exactly a bunch of hobos.
>
> Or consider the words of an art critic with 25 years experience in the
> business of interpreting visual works (me):
>
> The structure consists of rhythmic variations on a set of horizontal
> planes anchored by the great mass of the vertical stone chimney,
> itself composed of horizontally oriented sandstone blocks. The
> numerous repetitions of cantilevered rectangles also harmonize with
> the steel forms comprising the structural members of the casement
> windows. The cantilevers and casement windows also brilliantly open
> up the space of the building, increasing its spatial integration into
> its environment. Note further how the large cantilever just above the
> falls reflects (in a regularized, geometric manner) the native stone
> shelf in the fall itself.
>
> Alternatively consider the words of a man who has taught college
> courses in design for almost three decades (me again):
>
> These repetitions in a work of visual expression serve several related
> functions. They are analogous to rhymes in poetry, for example. Also
> as rhythmic elements, they constitute a visual analog to metre in
> poetry or the beat of a musical score. The designer chose to vary his
> rhythms, as a composer might let his music swell and ebb at times, or
> might set one rhythm against another to increase the interest in a
> piece.
>
> None of this remotely resembles randomness.
>
> Also, you might listen to the words of someone who has walked the
> building's halls (me again):
>
> I have toured Fallingwater a few times, and I can assure you it is not
> sloppy in the least. The fittings in the interior are exquisitely
> crafted. http://tinyurl.com/d3yrgg and http://tinyurl.com/cl9xbn are
> examples. The rusticated stone work in the great chimney is subtle
> and elegant both outside and inside the structure.
>
> As to the fact that it needed extensive work in the 90s and 00s, I
> hold no opinion. Remember I speak of what it looks like, not of its
> mechanical engineering. My interest is its appearance.

I still don't care for it, nor do I care for many of the celebrated /
hyped architectural works.

I find many of the famous buildings to be downright ugly, I find
tremendous waste in materials and space in engineering the buildings to
fit some absurd "organic" form.

What I do like are clean, functional design. Efficiency in both space
utilization, materials and energy consumption. I like large clear spans,
high ceilings, and visible trusses and mechanicals all done neatly and
cleanly.

And no, never in my entire life have I "got" or appreciated poetry.

Michael wrote on Fri, 13 Feb 2009 21:37:58 +0100:


> "James Silverton" schrieb :
> <snip>
>> Japanese, Chinese and Swiss farming with night soil and barn waste
>> squirted on the crops is often considered "organic".
>>
> You have no idea of farming, I guess ?
> The night soil is applied to the fields before the ground is
> ploughed under. Squirting it on the crops <shaking head> ...

I confess to absolutely no knowledge of farming but I remember the odor
in Switzerland in June!


--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

"James Silverton" schrieb :
> Michael wrote on Fri, 13 Feb 2009 21:37:58 +0100:
>
>
>> "James Silverton" schrieb :
>> <snip>
>>> Japanese, Chinese and Swiss farming with night soil and barn waste
>>> squirted on the crops is often considered "organic".
>>>
>> You have no idea of farming, I guess ?
>> The night soil is applied to the fields before the ground is
>> ploughed under. Squirting it on the crops <shaking head> ...
>
> I confess to absolutely no knowledge of farming but I remember the odor in
> Switzerland in June!
>
You got off lightly ;-P
The main odor season is January/February. The night soil is put on the field
before the main planting season.
Never walk across a brown field in winter ... ;-)

Cheers,

Michael Kuettner

"Stan Horwitz" > wrote in message
> Obviously, corporate America needs government oversight, much closer
> oversight then is currently taking place. If more frequent health
> inspections of that peanut factory were done, this problem might have
> been prevented, or at least headed off before more consumers were harmed.

That takes money and people don't want to pay higher taxes. I doubt you can
blame just one political party as this has been going on for many
administrations.

On Sun, 1 Mar 2009 09:33:08 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

> "Stan Horwitz" > wrote in message
>> Obviously, corporate America needs government oversight, much closer
>> oversight then is currently taking place. If more frequent health
>> inspections of that peanut factory were done, this problem might have
>> been prevented, or at least headed off before more consumers were harmed.
>
> That takes money and people don't want to pay higher taxes. I doubt you can
> blame just one political party as this has been going on for many
> administrations.

no, actually, i think you *can* blame one political party. which party has
pushed deregulation in almost every sphere? hint: it ain't the democrats.

your pal,
blake

"blake murphy" > wrote in message
>>
>> That takes money and people don't want to pay higher taxes. I doubt you
>> can
>> blame just one political party as this has been going on for many
>> administrations.
>
> no, actually, i think you *can* blame one political party. which party
> has
> pushed deregulation in almost every sphere? hint: it ain't the
> democrats.
>
> your pal,
> blake

Shortage of oversight has gone on under every administration in the past 30
years or so. Regulated or not, they don't have the inspectors or resources.
This is not just a Federal problem, but local health inspectors are in the
same situation in almost every district.

On Sun, 1 Mar 2009 11:07:05 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

> "blake murphy" > wrote in message
>>>
>>> That takes money and people don't want to pay higher taxes. I doubt you
>>> can
>>> blame just one political party as this has been going on for many
>>> administrations.
>>
>> no, actually, i think you *can* blame one political party. which party
>> has
>> pushed deregulation in almost every sphere? hint: it ain't the
>> democrats.
>>
>> your pal,
>> blake
>
> Shortage of oversight has gone on under every administration in the past 30
> years or so. Regulated or not, they don't have the inspectors or resources.
> This is not just a Federal problem, but local health inspectors are in the
> same situation in almost every district.

but republicans actively moved to weaken regulatory practices that were
already lax. there is no equivalence here.

your pal,
blake

blake murphy > wrote:

>On Sun, 1 Mar 2009 11:07:05 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

>> "blake murphy" > wrote in message

>>> i think you *can* blame one political party. which party
>>> has pushed deregulation in almost every sphere? hint: it
>>> ain't the democrats.

>> Shortage of oversight has gone on under every administration
>> in the past 30 years or so. Regulated or not, they don't have
>> the inspectors or resources. This is not just a Federal problem,
>> but local health inspectors are in the same situation in almost
>> every district.

>but republicans actively moved to weaken regulatory practices that were
>already lax. there is no equivalence here.

The CDS de-regulation was introduced by a Republican (Phil Gramm)
as a last minute rider to an omnibus spending bill, then signed
by a democrat (Clinton). Gramm is mostly responsible for this,
but all of Congress and the President share some blame.

90% of the financial damage, and 100% of the helplessness in
doing anything about it, traces to the CDS mess.

Steve

On 2009-03-03, Steve Pope > wrote:

> but all of Congress and the President share some blame.

They're all dirtbags that will take the money option, every time.

nb