I love to bake bread but arthritis has taken its toll and kneading the
dough is not always possible. I have been using my cheap stand mixer
to make small batches but now it's given up the ghost and I find
myself looking for another one.

I've been looking at the Kitchenaid of course but Cuisinart makes one
that also appeals to me. The KA is listed at 350 watts, the Cuisinart
at 1000 watts.

The other possibility is the Bosch bread machine which my friend, who
uses hers in her catering business, raves about. The cost is about
the same.

What say you?

Gabby

On Feb 3, 3:29*am, Gabby > wrote:
> I love to bake bread but arthritis has taken its toll and kneading the
> dough is not always possible. *I have been using my cheap stand mixer
> to make small batches but now it's given up the ghost and I find
> myself looking for another one.
>
> I've been looking at the Kitchenaid of course but Cuisinart makes one
> that also appeals to me. *The KA is listed at 350 watts, the Cuisinart
> at 1000 watts.
>
> The other possibility is the Bosch bread machine which my friend, who
> uses hers in her catering business, raves about. *The cost is about
> the same.
>
> What say you?
>
> Gabby

Try making no- knead bread- way easier and it comes out great!

On Tue, 3 Feb 2009 08:19:02 -0800 (PST), merryb >
wrote:

>On Feb 3, 3:29*am, Gabby > wrote:
>> I love to bake bread but arthritis has taken its toll and kneading the
>> dough is not always possible. *I have been using my cheap stand mixer
>> to make small batches but now it's given up the ghost and I find
>> myself looking for another one.
>>
>> I've been looking at the Kitchenaid of course but Cuisinart makes one
>> that also appeals to me. *The KA is listed at 350 watts, the Cuisinart
>> at 1000 watts.
>>
>> The other possibility is the Bosch bread machine which my friend, who
>> uses hers in her catering business, raves about. *The cost is about
>> the same.
>>
>> What say you?
>>
>> Gabby
>
>Try making no- knead bread- way easier and it comes out great!


That only works for that particular type of bread.

Depending on the amount of dough usually made. the overall frequency
of use and the budget, choices get narrowed.

If only one or 2 loaves are made at a time, then the better KAs will
handle it. Find one on sale. If larger batches and mostly whole grain
loaves are made with some frequency, something like the DLX from
Electrolux is the way to go. The DLX is expensive, but worth it if one
can afford it and has the need.

It is difficult to compare wattage across mixers.


Boron

On Tue, 3 Feb 2009 08:19:02 -0800 (PST), merryb >
wrote:

>Try making no- knead bread- way easier and it comes out great!

Merry....if you are using the No Knead recipe, it is ok...but I found
the Cook's Illustrated recipe that adds some needed improvements! I
love the parchment sling idea...works so good dealing with that hot
Dutch oven and lid.

@@@@@ Now You're Cooking! Export Format

No Knead Bread 2.0

breads

15 oz flour
1 1/2 ts salt
1/4 ts instant yeast
3 oz beer
1 tb vinegar
7 oz water

Combine all ingredients in large bowl mixing to blend with spatula.

Let dough rise for 8 to 15 hours, covered.

After rising, knead 10 to 15 times and form into a ball, seam side
down. Place on Pam sprayed parchment paper and place in 10 inch
skillet. Spray top with Pam and loosely cover with plastic wrap. Let
rise for two hours.

Thirty minutes before baking, preheat oven to 500 F. and add Dutch
oven to preheat also.

Sprinkle top of loaf with flour and make six inch slash in top of
dough. Remove Dutch oven from oven and remove lid. Place bread in
Dutch oven using the parchment paper as a sling. Replace lid and
return to oven. Lower temperature to 425F and bake for 30 minutes.

Remove lid and continue baking for 20 to 30 minutes or until internal
temperature is 210 F.

Notes: Cook's Illustrated

Yield: 1 loaf


** Exported from Now You're Cooking! v5.84 **




The Fine Art of Cooking involves personal choice.
Many preferences, ingredients, and procedures may not
be consistent with what you know to be true.
As with any recipe, you may find your personal
intervention will be necessary. Bon Appétit!

On Feb 3, 12:34*pm, "l, not -l" > wrote:
> On *3-Feb-2009, Gabby > wrote:
>
> > I've been looking at the Kitchenaid of course but Cuisinart makes one
> > that also appeals to me. *The KA is listed at 350 watts, the Cuisinart
> > at 1000 watts.
>
> > The other possibility is the Bosch bread machine which my friend, who
> > uses hers in her catering business, raves about. *The cost is about
> > the same.
>
> > What say you?
>
> > Gabby
>
> I have a Kitchenaid stand mixer and a 15 y/o Breadman bread machine. *Most
> of the bread I make these days isn't made start-to-finish in the bread
> machine; instead, I make the dough in the bread machine, hand form and
> oven-bake. *I use the Kitchenaid for everything but breadmaking; the bread
> maker is so much easier to clean since the pan and paddle are both non-stick
> and it does a great job of mixing and kneading.
>
> So, if it were my decision and I only needed something to make bread, I'd go
> with a breadmachine; but, would never spend $300+ on it. *$100 or less will
> get a perfectly servicable machine.
> --
> Change Cujo to Juno in email address.

I should have used another term. The Bosch is not a bread machine as
is usually understood (mix/knead/rise/bake) but a bowl like mixer that
makes big batches of bread dough.

http://www.everythingkitchens.com/boschUKM.html

G.

On Feb 3, 10:00*am, Mr. Bill > wrote:
> On Tue, 3 Feb 2009 08:19:02 -0800 (PST), merryb >
> wrote:
>
> >Try making no- knead bread- way easier and it comes out great!
>
> Merry....if you are using the No Knead recipe, it is ok...but I found
> the Cook's Illustrated recipe that adds some needed improvements! * *I
> love the parchment sling idea...works so good dealing with that hot
> Dutch oven and lid. *
>
> @@@@@ Now You're Cooking! Export Format
>
> No Knead Bread 2.0
>
> breads
>
> 15 oz flour
> 1 1/2 ts salt
> 1/4 ts instant yeast
> 3 oz beer
> 1 tb vinegar
> 7 oz water
>
> Combine all ingredients in large bowl mixing to blend with spatula.
>
> Let dough rise for 8 to 15 hours, covered.
>
> After rising, knead 10 to 15 times and form into a ball, seam side
> down. Place on Pam sprayed parchment paper and place in 10 inch
> skillet. Spray *top with Pam and loosely cover with plastic wrap. Let
> rise for two hours.
>
> Thirty minutes before baking, preheat oven to 500 F. and add Dutch
> oven to *preheat also.
>
> Sprinkle top of loaf with flour and make six inch slash in top of
> dough. *Remove Dutch oven from oven and remove lid. Place bread in
> Dutch oven using *the parchment paper as *a sling. Replace lid and
> return to oven. Lower temperature to 425F and bake for 30 minutes.
>
> Remove lid and continue baking for 20 to 30 minutes or until internal
> temperature is 210 F.
>
> Notes: *Cook's Illustrated
>
> Yield: 1 loaf
>
> ** Exported from Now You're Cooking! v5.84 **
>
> The Fine Art of Cooking involves personal choice.
> Many preferences, ingredients, and procedures may not
> be consistent with what you know to be true.
> As with any recipe, you may find your personal
> intervention will be necessary. * *Bon Appétit!

Hi-
I don't use a dutch oven- I either use a loaf pan, or make a
boule.For the boule, I usually use a sheet pan with parchment so I
don't have to worry about moving it after it has risen...

"Gabby" > wrote in message
...
>I love to bake bread but arthritis has taken its toll and kneading the
> dough is not always possible. I have been using my cheap stand mixer
> to make small batches but now it's given up the ghost and I find
> myself looking for another one.
>
> I've been looking at the Kitchenaid of course but Cuisinart makes one
> that also appeals to me. The KA is listed at 350 watts, the Cuisinart
> at 1000 watts.
>
> The other possibility is the Bosch bread machine which my friend, who
> uses hers in her catering business, raves about. The cost is about
> the same.
>
> What say you?
>
> Gabby

We just bought a "Cooks" stand mixer, 700 watt, at JC Penny, for $149.00.
They are on sale, I believe, until Wednesday. I'm not sure of that, so you
may want to call, if there is a store near you. They are regularly $299.99.
It looks like it could handle any job. No pro's or con's yet, like I said we
just got it.

Good Luck,
gene

On Feb 3, 5:54*pm, "Gene" > wrote:
> "Gabby" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
> >I love to bake bread but arthritis has taken its toll and kneading the
> > dough is not always possible. *I have been using my cheap stand mixer
> > to make small batches but now it's given up the ghost and I find
> > myself looking for another one.
>
> > I've been looking at the Kitchenaid of course but Cuisinart makes one
> > that also appeals to me. *The KA is listed at 350 watts, the Cuisinart
> > at 1000 watts.
>
> > The other possibility is the Bosch bread machine which my friend, who
> > uses hers in her catering business, raves about. *The cost is about
> > the same.
>
> > What say you?
>
> > Gabby
>
> We just bought a "Cooks" stand mixer, 700 watt, at JC Penny, for $149.00.
> They are on sale, I believe, until Wednesday. I'm not sure of that, so you
> may want to call, if there is a store near you. They are regularly $299.99.
> It looks like it could handle any job. No pro's or con's yet, like I said we
> just got it.
>
> Good Luck,
> gene

Thank you but I'm about 1200 miles away from the nearest JC
Penny. ;o)

I'd never heard of Cook so had to check it out. Looks like you got a
good deal.

G.

On Feb 3, 3:29*am, Gabby > wrote:
> I love to bake bread but arthritis has taken its toll and kneading the
> dough is not always possible. *I have been using my cheap stand mixer
> to make small batches but now it's given up the ghost and I find
> myself looking for another one.
>
> I've been looking at the Kitchenaid of course but Cuisinart makes one
> that also appeals to me. *The KA is listed at 350 watts, the Cuisinart
> at 1000 watts.
>
> The other possibility is the Bosch bread machine which my friend, who
> uses hers in her catering business, raves about. *The cost is about
> the same.
>
> What say you?
>
> Gabby

I would get a mixer before I got a bread machine- a stand mixer is
handy for many things.

Gabby wrote:

> I love to bake bread but arthritis has taken its toll and kneading the
> dough is not always possible. I have been using my cheap stand mixer
> to make small batches but now it's given up the ghost and I find
> myself looking for another one.
>
> I've been looking at the Kitchenaid of course but Cuisinart makes one
> that also appeals to me. The KA is listed at 350 watts, the Cuisinart
> at 1000 watts.

We have the KA Artisan and it does a good job. We an older KA and it
works too, but after a batch of brioche and many years of use it was
toiling with bread doughs, thus the new Artisan. We do like most of the
attachments you can purchase as well.

> The other possibility is the Bosch bread machine which my friend, who
> uses hers in her catering business, raves about. The cost is about
> the same.

Have you looked at the book, "Artisan Bread in Five Minutes a Day: The
Discovery That Revolutionizes Home Baking." Many of us here love it.

--Lin

On Feb 3, 7:05*pm, Lin > wrote:
> Gabby wrote:
> > I love to bake bread but arthritis has taken its toll and kneading the
> > dough is not always possible. *I have been using my cheap stand mixer
> > to make small batches but now it's given up the ghost and I find
> > myself looking for another one.
>
> > I've been looking at the Kitchenaid of course but Cuisinart makes one
> > that also appeals to me. *The KA is listed at 350 watts, the Cuisinart
> > at 1000 watts.
>
> We have the KA Artisan and it does a good job. We an older KA and it
> works too, but after a batch of brioche and many years of use it was
> toiling with bread doughs, thus the new Artisan. We do like most of the
> attachments you can purchase as well.
>
> > The other possibility is the Bosch bread machine which my friend, who
> > uses hers in her catering business, raves about. *The cost is about
> > the same.
>
> Have you looked at the book, "Artisan Bread in Five Minutes a Day: The
> Discovery That Revolutionizes Home Baking." Many of us here love it.
>
> --Lin

No, I haven't, I'll have to check it out. I haven't been lurking on
this this site as much as I used to, I just know where to come when I
want advice on all things cooking.

Oh, just took a look at what it's about and although it sounds
interesting, it also requires planning, something I'm notoriously bad
at. But I think I'll probably buy it anyway. ;o)

G.

On Feb 3, 3:32*pm, Gabby > wrote:
> On Feb 3, 7:05*pm, Lin > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Gabby wrote:
> > > I love to bake bread but arthritis has taken its toll and kneading the
> > > dough is not always possible. *I have been using my cheap stand mixer
> > > to make small batches but now it's given up the ghost and I find
> > > myself looking for another one.
>
> > > I've been looking at the Kitchenaid of course but Cuisinart makes one
> > > that also appeals to me. *The KA is listed at 350 watts, the Cuisinart
> > > at 1000 watts.
>
> > We have the KA Artisan and it does a good job. We an older KA and it
> > works too, but after a batch of brioche and many years of use it was
> > toiling with bread doughs, thus the new Artisan. We do like most of the
> > attachments you can purchase as well.
>
> > > The other possibility is the Bosch bread machine which my friend, who
> > > uses hers in her catering business, raves about. *The cost is about
> > > the same.
>
> > Have you looked at the book, "Artisan Bread in Five Minutes a Day: The
> > Discovery That Revolutionizes Home Baking." Many of us here love it.
>
> > --Lin
>
> No, I haven't, I'll have to check it out. * I haven't been lurking on
> this this site as much as I used to, I just know where to come when I
> want advice on all things cooking.
>
> Oh, just took a look at what it's about and although it sounds
> interesting, it also requires planning, something I'm notoriously bad
> at. *But I think I'll probably buy it anyway. *;o)
>
> G.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

It doesn't take much planning- once it's done, you can bake it when
you want. It takes no time to mix, too. A couple of weeks ago, I had 3
different batches in the fridge- Italian, like I described earlier, a
beer/cheese/onion, and a caraway rye.

"Gabby" > wrote in message
...
>I love to bake bread but arthritis has taken its toll and kneading the
> dough is not always possible. I have been using my cheap stand mixer
> to make small batches but now it's given up the ghost and I find
> myself looking for another one.
>
> I've been looking at the Kitchenaid of course but Cuisinart makes one
> that also appeals to me. The KA is listed at 350 watts, the Cuisinart
> at 1000 watts.
>
> The other possibility is the Bosch bread machine which my friend, who
> uses hers in her catering business, raves about. The cost is about
> the same.
>
> What say you?
>
> Gabby

I say stand mixer.

1. It is versatile and can be used for many mixing chores and with
attachments, many other chores as well

2. Bread machine bread is just not as good as what you can do in a proper
oven. They have a place, but not for the artisan or serious bread
maker/eater. .

"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
>
> I say stand mixer.
>
> 1. It is versatile and can be used for many mixing chores and with
> attachments, many other chores as well
>
> 2. Bread machine bread is just not as good as what you can do in a proper
> oven. They have a place, but not for the artisan or serious bread
> maker/eater. .

Do you use a stand mixer? What kind do you have? My friend bought a bread
machine and the stuff is like Wonder bread, not like the crusty breads a New
York bakery makes.

On Feb 3, 11:27*pm, "Ed Pawlowski" > wrote:
> "Gabby" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
> >I love to bake bread but arthritis has taken its toll and kneading the
> > dough is not always possible. *I have been using my cheap stand mixer
> > to make small batches but now it's given up the ghost and I find
> > myself looking for another one.
>
> > I've been looking at the Kitchenaid of course but Cuisinart makes one
> > that also appeals to me. *The KA is listed at 350 watts, the Cuisinart
> > at 1000 watts.
>
> > The other possibility is the Bosch bread machine which my friend, who
> > uses hers in her catering business, raves about. *The cost is about
> > the same.
>
> > What say you?
>
> > Gabby
>
> I say stand mixer.
>
> 1. *It is versatile and can be used for many mixing chores and with
> attachments, many other chores as well
>
> 2. *Bread machine bread is just not as good as what you can do in a proper
> oven. *They have a place, but not for the artisan or serious bread
> maker/eater. *.

It's not that kind of bread maker. It's a bread mixer (see post #7)

"Gabby" > wrote in message

It's not that kind of bread maker. It's a bread mixer (see post #7)

Now I see. That looks like a hefty machine. I'd like to see it up close and
how it works for other things.

Gabby > wrote:
>The other possibility is the Bosch bread machine which my friend, who
>uses hers in her catering business, raves about. The cost is about
>the same.
>What say you?
>Gabby

Well I've got a mid-range KitchenAid (~6 years old) which is okay but
it doesn't excite me. I would agree that the build quality of the
newer KA stuff has declined. I also wish it had an even lower speed.
When I make bread, I use it at the lowest setting and still wish it
could go slower.

I've only seen the Bosch machines at the store but the $700? one
excited me. Come to papa! :-) I'm a mechanical engineer by
education and the bottom drive intrigues me.

I also lust for the 12 or 20 quart Hobart mixers. I see from the link
below that they've recently come out with a 5 quart mixer to get into
the home market. I think? the 12 quart goes for about $2000.

http://www.hobartcorp.com/products/f...mixers/counter

On Feb 4, 12:48*am, (jj) wrote:

> Well I've got a mid-range KitchenAid (~6 years old) which is okay but
> it doesn't excite me. * I would agree that the build quality of the
> newer KA stuff has declined. *I also wish it had an even lower speed.
> When I make bread, I use it at the lowest setting and still wish it
> could go slower.
>
> I've only seen the Bosch machines at the store but the $700? one
> excited me. *Come to papa! *:-) *I'm a mechanical engineer by
> education and the bottom drive intrigues me.
>
> I also lust for the 12 or 20 quart Hobart mixers. *I see from the link
> below that they've recently come out with a 5 quart mixer to get into
> the home market. * I think? the 12 quart goes for about $2000.
>
> http://www.hobartcorp.com/products/f...mixers/counter

The friend who uses the Bosch in her business raves about it. 5
minutes start to finish and it produces a bread with a great
texture.

I wouldn't have much use for a 12 or 20 qt Hobart, but the 5 quart is
certainly interesting. I think that, like other Hobart products, it
might have to be imported from the US. Because of my location, I have
to order everything anyway.

The reason I was asking about the Cuisinart stand mixer is because
that one is available in this town. Anything else I have to order
online or from a catalog and I want to see and touch before I buy --
or at least be assured by regular users that I'm making the right
decision.

G.

On Feb 3, 11:48�pm, (jj) wrote:
> Gabby > wrote:
> >The other possibility is the Bosch bread machine which my friend, who
> >uses hers in her catering business, raves about. �The cost is about
> >the same.
> >What say you?
> >Gabby
>
> Well I've got a mid-range KitchenAid (~6 years old) which is okay but
> it doesn't excite me. � I would agree that the build quality of the
> newer KA stuff has declined. �I also wish it had an even lower speed.
> When I make bread, I use it at the lowest setting and still wish it
> could go slower.
>
> I've only seen the Bosch machines at the store but the $700? one
> excited me. �Come to papa! �:-) �I'm a mechanical engineer by
> education and the bottom drive intrigues me.
>
> I also lust for the 12 or 20 quart Hobart mixers. �I see from the link
> below that they've recently come out with a 5 quart mixer to get into
> the home market. � I think? the 12 quart goes for about $2000.
>
> http://www.hobartcorp.com/products/f...mixers/counter

The 5 quart N50 is not recent, it has been around for decades, only
the designer colors are new. The N50 sells for more than $2,000.
The 12 quartt goes for more than $4,000.

These machines are not priced for the typical home market.

http://www.valiantequipment.com/mixers2.html

Gabby wrote:
> On Feb 4, 12:48�am, (jj) wrote:
>
> > Well I've got a mid-range KitchenAid (~6 years old) which is okay but
> > it doesn't excite me. � I would agree that the build quality of the
> > newer KA stuff has declined. �I also wish it had an even lower speed.
> > When I make bread, I use it at the lowest setting and still wish it
> > could go slower.
>
> > I've only seen the Bosch machines at the store but the $700? one
> > excited me. �Come to papa! �:-) �I'm a mechanical engineer by
> > education and the bottom drive intrigues me.
>
> > I also lust for the 12 or 20 quart Hobart mixers. �I see from the link
> > below that they've recently come out with a 5 quart mixer to get into
> > the home market. � I think? the 12 quart goes for about $2000.
>
> >http://www.hobartcorp.com/products/f...mixers/counter
>
> The friend who uses the Bosch in her business raves about it. �5
> minutes start to finish and it produces a bread with a great
> texture.
>
> I wouldn't have much use for a 12 or 20 qt Hobart, but the 5 quart is
> certainly interesting. �I think that, like other Hobart products, it
> might have to be imported from the US. �Because of my location, I have
> to order everything anyway.
>
> The reason I was asking about the Cuisinart stand mixer is because
> that one is available in this town. �Anything else I have to order
> online or from a catalog and I want to see and touch before I buy --
> or at least be assured by regular users that I'm making the right
> decision.
>
> G.

Hobart products are sold internationally, there must be a dealer
within a reasonable distance of where you're located, query Hobart:
http://www.hobartcorp.com/salesdirec...cedealer?int=1

I don't think you need to touch a Hobart mixer to know if it's
suitible... there is nothing better... your only decision is do you
want to pay the price.

On 2009-02-04, Sheldon > wrote:

> The 5 quart N50 is not recent, it has been around for decades, only
> the designer colors are new. The N50 sells for more than $2,000.
> The 12 quartt goes for more than $4,000.
>
> These machines are not priced for the typical home market.

Boy howdy! You gotta have a real need to put out $2K for a countertop stand
mixer. Even the cooking shows don't have one gracing their collapsable
roll-away prop kitchens. Even those dying restos in Ramsey's Kitchen
Nightmares don't have an N50. Being Brit, you see a Kenwood or a Viking, the
new kid on the promo block. Vikings are pretty much a Kenwood on steroids.
Most of these, including the now failure-prone KA, are more than overkill
for anything home cooking oriented unless you're opening an underground
pizza kitchen or supplementing your drug dealing by selling homemade dogfood
to your neighbors.

nb

On Feb 4, 1:56*pm, Sheldon > wrote:
> Gabby wrote:
> > On Feb 4, 12:48 am, (jj) wrote:
>
> > > Well I've got a mid-range KitchenAid (~6 years old) which is okay but
> > > it doesn't excite me. I would agree that the build quality of the
> > > newer KA stuff has declined. I also wish it had an even lower speed.
> > > When I make bread, I use it at the lowest setting and still wish it
> > > could go slower.
>
> > > I've only seen the Bosch machines at the store but the $700? one
> > > excited me. Come to papa! :-) I'm a mechanical engineer by
> > > education and the bottom drive intrigues me.
>
> > > I also lust for the 12 or 20 quart Hobart mixers. I see from the link
> > > below that they've recently come out with a 5 quart mixer to get into
> > > the home market. I think? the 12 quart goes for about $2000.
>
> > >http://www.hobartcorp.com/products/f...mixers/counter
>
> > The friend who uses the Bosch in her business raves about it. 5
> > minutes start to finish and it produces a bread with a great
> > texture.
>
> > I wouldn't have much use for a 12 or 20 qt Hobart, but the 5 quart is
> > certainly interesting. I think that, like other Hobart products, it
> > might have to be imported from the US. Because of my location, I have
> > to order everything anyway.
>
> > The reason I was asking about the Cuisinart stand mixer is because
> > that one is available in this town. Anything else I have to order
> > online or from a catalog and I want to see and touch before I buy --
> > or at least be assured by regular users that I'm making the right
> > decision.
>
> > G.
>
> Hobart products are sold internationally, there must be a dealer
> within a reasonable distance of where you're located, query Hobart:http://www.hobartcorp.com/salesdirec...cedealer?int=1
>
> I don't think you need to touch a Hobart mixer to know if it's
> suitible... there is nothing better... your only decision is do you
> want to pay the price.

I checked, I'm about 1200 miles north east of the nearest dealer, but
that's moot since I'm not about to spend $2000 on a mixer, no matter
how much I want to make bread.

G.

On Feb 3, 1:30�pm, Gabby > wrote:
> On Feb 3, 12:34�pm, "l, not -l" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On �3-Feb-2009, Gabby > wrote:
>
> > > I've been looking at the Kitchenaid of course but Cuisinart makes one
> > > that also appeals to me. �The KA is listed at 350 watts, the Cuisinart
> > > at 1000 watts.
>
> > > The other possibility is the Bosch bread machine which my friend, who
> > > uses hers in her catering business, raves about. �The cost is about
> > > the same.
>
> > > What say you?
>
> > > Gabby
>
> > I have a Kitchenaid stand mixer and a 15 y/o Breadman bread machine. �Most
> > of the bread I make these days isn't made start-to-finish in the bread
> > machine; instead, I make the dough in the bread machine, hand form and
> > oven-bake. �I use the Kitchenaid for everything but breadmaking; the bread
> > maker is so much easier to clean since the pan and paddle are both non-stick
> > and it does a great job of mixing and kneading.
>
> > So, if it were my decision and I only needed something to make bread, I'd go
> > with a breadmachine; but, would never spend $300+ on it. �$100 or less will
> > get a perfectly servicable machine.
> > --
> > Change Cujo to Juno in email address.
>
> I should have used another term. �The Bosch is not a bread machine as
> is usually understood (mix/knead/rise/bake) but a bowl like mixer that
> makes big batches of bread dough.
>
> http://www.everythingkitchens.com/boschUKM.html


Looks like just another of those all in one kitchen centers. I'd be
very wary of a machine that claims to do it all and lists motor
"output" in Watts. Watts is electric *consumption*, not output. It
really irks me that mixer companies now promote their machines by
Watts, and it irks me even more that so many pinheads fall for the
scam. Light bulbs and hair driers are sold by Watts... are you going
to dry your hair with the heat produced by your mixer.. when you buy a
higher wattage mixer you are buying a machine that effectively uses a
greater proportion of the energy it consumes to produce heat, not
shaft horsepower. These machines have no transmission, so the larger
the diameter the bowl the more electrical energy is consumed in Watts
to overcome the greater torque, the more heat is produced and the
greater your electric bill. Never make your kitchen mixer purchase
based on Watts.... save the Watts comparison for your toaster and
electric stove. These mixer companies circumvent the law by not
calling their machines "Commercial", they call them "Professional",
and so they don't need to label the horsepower rating... the typical
KitchenAid mixer produces like 1/50 horsepower, a 5 qt Hobart is rated
at 1/6 horsepower, better than ten times more powerful. Hobart
doesn't give Wattage... Wattage varies with load. The Hobart N50 run
at 120 Volts draws 2.9 Amps... at 240 Volts it draws 1.5 Amps.
Because of its transmission very little heat is produced. Hobart
doesn't recommend using their mixers for heavy doughs (bagel/pizza - a
formula is provided for water to flour ratio) until the 20 quart
mixer. The N50 is rated to mix lt-med bread dough up to 4 pounds. I
have tons of literature from when I owned a 12 quart Hobart. For
heavy doughs you need the lower rpm of the larger machines so the
dough doesn't overheat. Unless one is handicapped I strongly
recommend kneading dough by hand, for the amount you can knead in a
5-6 quart bowl it's easy to knead by hand and your won't overload your
wussy KitchenAid and make it produce heat and consume electric like
your hair drier. And no machine yet devised can knead dough better
than the human hand.

On Feb 4, 1:51�pm, Gabby > wrote:
> On Feb 4, 1:56�pm, Sheldon > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Gabby wrote:
> > > On Feb 4, 12:48 am, (jj) wrote:
>
> > > > Well I've got a mid-range KitchenAid (~6 years old) which is okay but
> > > > it doesn't excite me. I would agree that the build quality of the
> > > > newer KA stuff has declined. I also wish it had an even lower speed..
> > > > When I make bread, I use it at the lowest setting and still wish it
> > > > could go slower.
>
> > > > I've only seen the Bosch machines at the store but the $700? one
> > > > excited me. Come to papa! :-) I'm a mechanical engineer by
> > > > education and the bottom drive intrigues me.
>
> > > > I also lust for the 12 or 20 quart Hobart mixers. I see from the link
> > > > below that they've recently come out with a 5 quart mixer to get into
> > > > the home market. I think? the 12 quart goes for about $2000.
>
> > > >http://www.hobartcorp.com/products/f...mixers/counter
>
> > > The friend who uses the Bosch in her business raves about it. 5
> > > minutes start to finish and it produces a bread with a great
> > > texture.
>
> > > I wouldn't have much use for a 12 or 20 qt Hobart, but the 5 quart is
> > > certainly interesting. I think that, like other Hobart products, it
> > > might have to be imported from the US. Because of my location, I have
> > > to order everything anyway.
>
> > > The reason I was asking about the Cuisinart stand mixer is because
> > > that one is available in this town. Anything else I have to order
> > > online or from a catalog and I want to see and touch before I buy --
> > > or at least be assured by regular users that I'm making the right
> > > decision.
>
> > > G.
>
> > Hobart products are sold internationally, there must be a dealer
> > within a reasonable distance of where you're located, query Hobart:http://www.hobartcorp.com/salesdirec...cedealer?int=1
>
> > I don't think you need to touch a Hobart mixer to know if it's
> > suitible... there is nothing better... your only decision is do you
> > want to pay the price.
>
> I checked, I'm about 1200 miles north east of the nearest dealer, but
> that's moot since I'm not about to spend $2000 on a mixer, no matter
> how much I want to make bread.

Wise decision. Use your hands or buy the least expensive mixer you
can find. The lowest Wattage KitchenAid mixers are actually best for
dough work because they are designed to be more efficient at low rpm.

On Feb 4, 1:02�pm, notbob > wrote:
> On 2009-02-04, Sheldon > wrote:
>
> > The 5 quart N50 is not recent, it has been around for decades, only
> > the designer colors are new. � The N50 sells for more than $2,000.

In article
>,
Gabby > wrote:

> I love to bake bread but arthritis has taken its toll and kneading the
> dough is not always possible. I have been using my cheap stand mixer
> to make small batches but now it's given up the ghost and I find
> myself looking for another one.
>
> I've been looking at the Kitchenaid of course but Cuisinart makes one
> that also appeals to me. The KA is listed at 350 watts, the Cuisinart
> at 1000 watts.
>
> The other possibility is the Bosch bread machine which my friend, who
> uses hers in her catering business, raves about. The cost is about
> the same.
>
> What say you?

Personally I'd go for a stand mixer. Bet you end up doing more with it
than just making bread.

Miche

--
Electricians do it in three phases

>> I also lust for the 12 or 20 quart Hobart mixers. �I see from the link
>> below that they've recently come out with a 5 quart mixer to get into
>> the home market. � I think? the 12 quart goes for about $2000.
>> http://www.hobartcorp.com/products/f...mixers/counter
>
>The 5 quart N50 is not recent, it has been around for decades, only
>the designer colors are new. The N50 sells for more than $2,000.
>The 12 quartt goes for more than $4,000.
>These machines are not priced for the typical home market.
>http://www.valiantequipment.com/mixers2.html

I did a bit of reading and WOW for these Hobarts. For instance, the
N50 weighs around 50 pounds! This must be almost double what a
Kitchen Aid weighs. And the 12 and 20 quart machines weigh just over
200 pounds! I'm guessing here but I think they both use the same
frame because both the weights and the height/width/depth are the
same. I think it would be cool if the 20 quart machine could also
use 12 quart bowls and mixing implements. The 20 quart is *only* a
few hundred dollars more. :-)