In the Vegetable Gardening venue, there was a post where the writer
felt there was no monetary gain in growing your own veggies.

Well! If you grow a chemical garden, you're probably right! But the
gain from an organic garden cannot be measured in dollars! Think!

Mikie

Mikie wrote:
> In the Vegetable Gardening venue, there was a post where the writer
> felt there was no monetary gain in growing your own veggies.
>
> Well! If you grow a chemical garden, you're probably right! But the
> gain from an organic garden cannot be measured in dollars! Think!
>
> Mikie

It certainly can be measured in dollars when it comes down to harvest
and storage of surplus veggies. At that point in the game, there is
absolutely no difference between the two methods of agriculture.

"Mikie" > wrote in message
...
> In the Vegetable Gardening venue, there was a post where the writer
> felt there was no monetary gain in growing your own veggies.
>
> Well! If you grow a chemical garden, you're probably right! But the
> gain from an organic garden cannot be measured in dollars! Think!
>
> Mikie

Add the value of your labor to the costs and see where you are.

Economies of scale would make it unprofitable.

No differential for quality as the perception of quality is arbitrary and
intangible.


Dimitri

"Dimitri" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Mikie" > wrote in message
> ...
>> In the Vegetable Gardening venue, there was a post where the writer
>> felt there was no monetary gain in growing your own veggies.
>>
>> Well! If you grow a chemical garden, you're probably right! But the
>> gain from an organic garden cannot be measured in dollars! Think!
>>
>> Mikie
>
> Add the value of your labor to the costs and see where you are.
>
> Economies of scale would make it unprofitable.
>
> No differential for quality as the perception of quality is arbitrary and
> intangible.
>
>
> Dimitri

If you use a highly efficient method such as square-foot gardening, the
labor becomes less of a factor. After the first year, anyway.

On the other hand, if you have a "summer" like we did here, where it rained
every day for about 8 weeks or so, yield can be so extremely low that you're
lucky to recoup the cost of seedlings and seeds.

"Mikie" > wrote in message
...
> In the Vegetable Gardening venue, there was a post where the writer
> felt there was no monetary gain in growing your own veggies.
>
> Well! If you grow a chemical garden, you're probably right! But the
> gain from an organic garden cannot be measured in dollars! Think!
>
> Mikie

http://www.64dollartomato.com/

On Oct 1, 7:21*am, Mikie > wrote:
> In the Vegetable Gardening venue, there was a post where the writer
> felt there was no monetary gain in growing your own veggies.
>
> Well! *If you grow a chemical garden, you're probably right! *But the
> gain from an organic garden cannot be measured in dollars! *Think!
>
I'm guessing you mean that an "organic garden" will give you produce
that hasn't been exposed to pesticides and herbicides. While that's
true, such produce is nowadays readily available in many markets and
supermarkets. What we have found interesting in our little backyard
plots is how quick and beneficial the effects of insecticides are.
When plants are being devoured by some little critters and you apply
an insecticide and the damage stops you get the point. You can choose
to stay 'organc' by using only things like BT and (can't remember the
name of the other main one, starts with a 'P') but each product has a
specific range--it kills certain critters and doesn't others. The
point I'm wandering around here is that if you wonder why organic
produce costs you'll learn quickly when you try to grow your own. -
aem

Mikie wrote:
> In the Vegetable Gardening venue, there was a post where the writer
> felt there was no monetary gain in growing your own veggies.
>
> Well! If you grow a chemical garden, you're probably right! But the
> gain from an organic garden cannot be measured in dollars! Think!


Did the discussion take into acount:


Saved money from not needing a gym membership? Gardening is great exercise.


Saved money from not needing vacations to the country or beach?
Gardening is enjoyable and will give you a tan.


Saved money from not needing psychotherapy or Prozac? Gardening is
relaxing, meditative, enjoyable, soothing, philosophical, fun.


If you're someone who hates every minute of it, then I agree. Better to
get produce from the supermarket or farmer's market. The cost in
dollars and aggravation isn't worth it. If you think it is fun, then
there's no better reward right there.


--Lia

On Oct 1, 1:32�pm, Julia Altshuler > wrote:
> Mikie wrote:
> > In the Vegetable Gardening venue, there was a post where the writer
> > felt there was no monetary gain in growing your own veggies.
>
> > Well! �If you grow a chemical garden, you're probably right! �But the
> > gain from an organic garden cannot be measured in dollars! �Think!
>
> Did the discussion take into acount:
>
> Saved money from not needing a gym membership? �Gardening is great exercise.
>
> Saved money from not needing vacations to the country or beach?
> Gardening is enjoyable and will give you a tan.
>
> Saved money from not needing psychotherapy or Prozac? �Gardening is
> relaxing, meditative, enjoyable, soothing, philosophical, fun.
>
> If you're someone who hates every minute of it, then I agree. �Better to
> get produce from the supermarket or farmer's market. �The cost in
> dollars and aggravation isn't worth it. �If you think it is fun, then
> there's no better reward right there.
>
> --Lia

Those are the reasons I garden, especially because for me it's fun and
enjoyable. I don't really think about the economic aspect unless
someone brings it up, but I know from years of experience, that just
like any other hobby there is no monetary advantage. I also collect
fountain pens, many of which cost hundreds, even thousands of
dollars... I can just as easily write with a 19 cent BIC... but there
is a certain intangible enjoyment in hobbies that can't be equated in
dollars and cents. Once there's a profit it's no longer a hobby, then
it's a business... I'm into gardening, not farming... if it was
constantly on my mind to turn a profit I wouldn't enjoy it and I'd not
do it. Most of what my garden produces I give away. Today I gave
away two large butternut squash and two large cabbages, make that
three cabbages, gave two to my neighbor and one to my tenant. I still
have four more large cabbages in the garden and more squash... I
picked some for me too but I can't fit any more in my fridge. It
would have been immeasurably less costly to simply buy a few cabbage
and squash for like under $20... growing my own two cabbage and two
squash cost like $200, probably more. But even knowing this I don't
mind... I'm sure plenty of yoose spend $200 on a seat at a ball game,
I never have... I think yoose are just as nutz paying to see grown
adult juvenile delinquents bat a ball around like so many retards as
you think I am playing Jolly Green Giant with my patch of dirt

Sheldon wrote:

I'm sure plenty of yoose spend $200 on a seat at a ball game,
I never have... I think yoose are just as nutz paying to see grown
adult juvenile delinquents bat a ball around like so many retards as
you think I am playing Jolly Green Giant with my patch of dirt
--------------------


GM replies:

I'm always very amused by some of the people I know who sometimes chide
myself and others for spending so much "time" on the internet. These are
all big sports fans, some of them spend most all of their leisure time in a
stinky bar, their butts cemented to a bar stool, screaming at a screen,
spending all this money on booze and cigs and not inconsiderable amounts of
dough on betting pools, etc...

I gnerally loathe sports, don't see the point of *adults* sitting there
watching some moron chasing a ball around. But if that's yer bag, hey, it's
yer life and yer money, and DON'T be dissing other folks' interests. Yeah,
I like my internet stuff but I get it all for $7.95 per month. My
ancilliary expenses might include some cheep wodka as I'll have a toot or so
sometimes in the evening whilst posting, but I've got the wodka anyways,
it's no huge expense. Some of these sports fans I know have bet HUGE
amounts of money on games, they put their bar tabs and cigs on credit cards
and are so in hock at 21.95% interest for something that should be an
enjoyable "hobby". Additionally, some of them get so wound up in the Big
Game that when their teams lose they go into a funk and spend even more on
their addictions, e.g. drinking, smoking, gambling...some have anger
management problems as a result, they let some stupid game result literally
run - and ruin - their lives. One d00d I know ditched work on a Friday
afternoon *one* too many times to watch a Cubs game, he lost his job as a
result...nice going!

Some of these are the same nitwits who complain about never having money for
this or that. NATCHERLY they don't, they are wasting it all on their sports
jones...

You have gardening and pen collecting, others restore old cars or radios,
knit, do crosswords, can, bake, play the pianer, do genealogy, read
mysteries, engage in video gaming, or wierd sex, ride horses, body build,
build their own computers, etc. Interests and hobbies should be
*pleasures*, not burdens...

Food - wise I dabble a bit in baking, I know I'm not saving much time or
money - wise but it's pleasurable, most especially when I see the smiles on
the faces of the folks with which I've gifted my baked goods. I used to can
years ago, but after awhiles it got to be a chore (and an expense), so I
don't do that anymore...I can buy perfectly good canned tomatoes 'n stuff
that is much cheapier and tastier than I could probably ever hope to put up.

Off my soapbox, but my internet/Usenet "hobby" is much cheaper, much more
healthful, AND more entertaining, and anyways I've got characters like the
cyberpussie and PeterBreathLucas and some others to mock, so my laffs come
*very* cheap...

:-)


===>>> thinking of a wodka and a Diet Squirt...


--
Best
Greg

Julia Altshuler wrote:
> Mikie wrote:
>> In the Vegetable Gardening venue, there was a post where the writer
>> felt there was no monetary gain in growing your own veggies.
>>
>> Well! If you grow a chemical garden, you're probably right! But the
>> gain from an organic garden cannot be measured in dollars! Think!
>
>
> Did the discussion take into acount:
>
>
> Saved money from not needing a gym membership? Gardening is great
> exercise.

But you'll offset the offset with the cost of analgesics and physical
therapy (gardening thrashed my arms and shoulders this year).



> Saved money from not needing vacations to the country or beach?
> Gardening is enjoyable and will give you a tan.

AND if you have a large and extensive garden, you can't go anywhere anyway.



> Saved money from not needing psychotherapy or Prozac? Gardening is
> relaxing, meditative, enjoyable, soothing, philosophical, fun.

Except for this year. This year's yields were so bad I need Prozac.



> If you're someone who hates every minute of it, then I agree. Better to
> get produce from the supermarket or farmer's market. The cost in
> dollars and aggravation isn't worth it. If you think it is fun, then
> there's no better reward right there.

This year's production was minimal, so things had to be bolstered with
supermarket and farm stand fare.

Incidently, the very last tomatoes to come on and the very last ready to
be picked this summer were the Early Girls! The irony was delicious.

Gregory Morrow wrote:

>
> I'm always very amused by some of the people I know who sometimes chide
> myself and others for spending so much "time" on the internet. These are
> all big sports fans, some of them spend most all of their leisure time in a
> stinky bar, their butts cemented to a bar stool, screaming at a screen,
> spending all this money on booze and cigs and not inconsiderable amounts of
> dough on betting pools, etc...


Funny thing that. All those arm chair jocks think of themselves as
athletes because they watch sports. Personally, team sports are not of
much interest to me. Once you get out of school there are limited
opportunities to get involved in them. It is too much hassle to get a
bunch of guys together on a regular basis. A friend of mine advised me
years ago about the concept of "sports for life" the sorts of activities
that you can do on your own or with one or more people, like bicycling,
tennis, skiing, cross country skiing. My sport of choice is equestrian
jumping, and conditioning and weight loss is aimed at keeping me in
shape for riding.

In article > ,
Dave Smith > wrote:


> Funny thing that. All those arm chair jocks think of themselves as
> athletes because they watch sports. Personally, team sports are not of
> much interest to me. Once you get out of school there are limited
> opportunities to get involved in them.

Not true. It's not for me, but I shared an office with a woman for five
years. Sports were her life. She and her husband did the football
watching thing. Her husband had a stressful job, so his job paid for
membership in an athletic club. It wasn't much extra money to add
family membership to that. They both played racquet ball a couple of
times of week (not with each other). They were both on a volleyball
team. They both played baseball. They both played soccer. I watched
her play a few times. 1 1/2 hours of straight running. These sports
mostly had seasons, so they didn't do all of these at the same time.

ObFood: When she did sports, then she felt justified in drinking a beer
or eating another sandwich.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

"Sheldon" > wrote in message
...
> On Oct 1, 1:32�pm, Julia Altshuler > wrote:
>> Mikie wrote:
>> > In the Vegetable Gardening venue, there was a post where the writer
>> > felt there was no monetary gain in growing your own veggies.
>>
>> > Well! �If you grow a chemical garden, you're probably right! �But the
>> > gain from an organic garden cannot be measured in dollars! �Think!
>>
>> Did the discussion take into acount:
>>
>> Saved money from not needing a gym membership? �Gardening is great
>> exercise.
>>
>> Saved money from not needing vacations to the country or beach?
>> Gardening is enjoyable and will give you a tan.
>>
>> Saved money from not needing psychotherapy or Prozac? �Gardening is
>> relaxing, meditative, enjoyable, soothing, philosophical, fun.
>>
>> If you're someone who hates every minute of it, then I agree. �Better to
>> get produce from the supermarket or farmer's market. �The cost in
>> dollars and aggravation isn't worth it. �If you think it is fun, then
>> there's no better reward right there.
>>
>> --Lia
>
> Those are the reasons I garden, especially because for me it's fun and
> enjoyable. I don't really think about the economic aspect unless
> someone brings it up, but I know from years of experience, that just
> like any other hobby there is no monetary advantage. I also collect
> fountain pens, many of which cost hundreds, even thousands of
> dollars... I can just as easily write with a 19 cent BIC... but there
> is a certain intangible enjoyment in hobbies that can't be equated in
> dollars and cents. Once there's a profit it's no longer a hobby, then
> it's a business... I'm into gardening, not farming... if it was
> constantly on my mind to turn a profit I wouldn't enjoy it and I'd not
> do it. Most of what my garden produces I give away. Today I gave
> away two large butternut squash and two large cabbages, make that
> three cabbages, gave two to my neighbor and one to my tenant. I still
> have four more large cabbages in the garden and more squash... I
> picked some for me too but I can't fit any more in my fridge. It
> would have been immeasurably less costly to simply buy a few cabbage
> and squash for like under $20... growing my own two cabbage and two
> squash cost like $200, probably more. But even knowing this I don't
> mind... I'm sure plenty of yoose spend $200 on a seat at a ball game,
> I never have... I think yoose are just as nutz paying to see grown
> adult juvenile delinquents bat a ball around like so many retards as
> you think I am playing Jolly Green Giant with my patch of dirt
>

You just feel like you're lording over those you give to.

Here in Floriduh, just the time invested in breaking the ground amounts to
more than one would spend at the local produce market. Stick that in your
****ing New York pipe and smoke it, biatch!

What you pay $1.00 for, I get for 23 cents.

**** you, you uppity prick!


TFM® - and get that ****ing cat off the counter!

"Gregory Morrow" > wrote in message
...
>
>
>
> Sheldon wrote:
>
> I'm sure plenty of yoose spend $200 on a seat at a ball game,
> I never have... I think yoose are just as nutz paying to see grown
> adult juvenile delinquents bat a ball around like so many retards as
> you think I am playing Jolly Green Giant with my patch of dirt
> --------------------
>
>
> GM replies:
>
> I'm always very amused by some of the people I know who sometimes chide
> myself and others for spending so much "time" on the internet. These are
> all big sports fans, some of them spend most all of their leisure time in
> a
> stinky bar, their butts cemented to a bar stool, screaming at a screen,
> spending all this money on booze and cigs and not inconsiderable amounts
> of
> dough on betting pools, etc...
>
> I gnerally loathe sports, don't see the point of *adults* sitting there
> watching some moron chasing a ball around. But if that's yer bag, hey,
> it's
> yer life and yer money, and DON'T be dissing other folks' interests.
> Yeah,
> I like my internet stuff but I get it all for $7.95 per month. My
> ancilliary expenses might include some cheep wodka as I'll have a toot or
> so
> sometimes in the evening whilst posting, but I've got the wodka anyways,
> it's no huge expense. Some of these sports fans I know have bet HUGE
> amounts of money on games, they put their bar tabs and cigs on credit
> cards
> and are so in hock at 21.95% interest for something that should be an
> enjoyable "hobby". Additionally, some of them get so wound up in the Big
> Game that when their teams lose they go into a funk and spend even more on
> their addictions, e.g. drinking, smoking, gambling...some have anger
> management problems as a result, they let some stupid game result
> literally
> run - and ruin - their lives. One d00d I know ditched work on a Friday
> afternoon *one* too many times to watch a Cubs game, he lost his job as a
> result...nice going!
>
> Some of these are the same nitwits who complain about never having money
> for
> this or that. NATCHERLY they don't, they are wasting it all on their
> sports
> jones...
>
> You have gardening and pen collecting, others restore old cars or radios,
> knit, do crosswords, can, bake, play the pianer, do genealogy, read
> mysteries, engage in video gaming, or wierd sex, ride horses, body build,
> build their own computers, etc. Interests and hobbies should be
> *pleasures*, not burdens...
>
> Food - wise I dabble a bit in baking, I know I'm not saving much time or
> money - wise but it's pleasurable, most especially when I see the smiles
> on
> the faces of the folks with which I've gifted my baked goods. I used to
> can
> years ago, but after awhiles it got to be a chore (and an expense), so I
> don't do that anymore...I can buy perfectly good canned tomatoes 'n stuff
> that is much cheapier and tastier than I could probably ever hope to put
> up.
>
> Off my soapbox, but my internet/Usenet "hobby" is much cheaper, much more
> healthful, AND more entertaining, and anyways I've got characters like the
> cyberpussie and PeterBreathLucas and some others to mock, so my laffs come
> *very* cheap...
>
> :-)
>
>
> ===>>> thinking of a wodka and a Diet Squirt...


I'll raise with straight Canadian.

4 ounces.


TFM®

In article
>,
Sheldon > wrote:

> Those are the reasons I garden, especially because for me it's fun and
> enjoyable. I don't really think about the economic aspect unless
> someone brings it up, but I know from years of experience, that just
> like any other hobby there is no monetary advantage. I also collect
> fountain pens, many of which cost hundreds, even thousands of
> dollars... I can just as easily write with a 19 cent BIC... but there
> is a certain intangible enjoyment in hobbies that can't be equated in
> dollars and cents. Once there's a profit it's no longer a hobby, then
> it's a business... I'm into gardening, not farming... if it was
> constantly on my mind to turn a profit I wouldn't enjoy it and I'd not
> do it. Most of what my garden produces I give away. Today I gave
> away two large butternut squash and two large cabbages, make that
> three cabbages, gave two to my neighbor and one to my tenant. I still
> have four more large cabbages in the garden and more squash... I
> picked some for me too but I can't fit any more in my fridge. It
> would have been immeasurably less costly to simply buy a few cabbage
> and squash for like under $20... growing my own two cabbage and two
> squash cost like $200, probably more. But even knowing this I don't
> mind.

Aren't you the same Penmart who was putting down people who would can
their own tomatoes because it is cheaper to buy them? <grin>

--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://web.mac.com/barbschaller, and here's the link to my appearance
on "A Prairie Home Companion," <http://prairiehome.publicradio.org/
programs/2008/08/30/>

On Oct 1, 6:30*pm, Dave Smith > wrote:

> Funny thing that. All those arm chair jocks think of themselves as
> athletes because they watch sports. *Personally, team sports are not of
> much interest to me. Once you get out of school there are limited
> opportunities to get involved in them.

You missed rugby although I think most players give up playing by the
age of 50 or so. Great social sport with opportunities for travel and
all you need is a pair of rugby boots, and pair of rugby shorts.

Combined with bicycling to games and practices it becomes a great
exercise.

John Kane Kingston ON Canada

On Thu, 02 Oct 2008 07:40:41 -0500, Melba's Jammin' wrote:

> In article
> >,
> Sheldon > wrote:
>
>> Those are the reasons I garden, especially because for me it's fun and
>> enjoyable. I don't really think about the economic aspect unless
>> someone brings it up, but I know from years of experience, that just
>> like any other hobby there is no monetary advantage. I also collect
>> fountain pens, many of which cost hundreds, even thousands of
>> dollars... I can just as easily write with a 19 cent BIC... but there
>> is a certain intangible enjoyment in hobbies that can't be equated in
>> dollars and cents. Once there's a profit it's no longer a hobby, then
>> it's a business... I'm into gardening, not farming... if it was
>> constantly on my mind to turn a profit I wouldn't enjoy it and I'd not
>> do it. Most of what my garden produces I give away. Today I gave
>> away two large butternut squash and two large cabbages, make that
>> three cabbages, gave two to my neighbor and one to my tenant. I still
>> have four more large cabbages in the garden and more squash... I
>> picked some for me too but I can't fit any more in my fridge. It
>> would have been immeasurably less costly to simply buy a few cabbage
>> and squash for like under $20... growing my own two cabbage and two
>> squash cost like $200, probably more. But even knowing this I don't
>> mind.
>
> Aren't you the same Penmart who was putting down people who would can
> their own tomatoes because it is cheaper to buy them? <grin>

....and switching the tops on grape jelly and strawberry preserves jars?

your pal,
blake

On Oct 2, 8:40�am, Melba's Jammin' > wrote:
> In article
> >,
>
>
>
>
>
> �Sheldon > wrote:
> > Those are the reasons I garden, especially because for me it's fun and
> > enjoyable. �I don't really think about the economic aspect unless
> > someone brings it up, but I know from years of experience, that just
> > like any other hobby there is no monetary advantage. �I also collect
> > fountain pens, many of which cost hundreds, even thousands of
> > dollars... I can just as easily write with a 19 cent BIC... but there
> > is a certain intangible enjoyment in hobbies that can't be equated in
> > dollars and cents. �Once there's a profit it's no longer a hobby, then
> > it's a business... I'm into gardening, not farming... if it was
> > constantly on my mind to turn a profit I wouldn't enjoy it and I'd not
> > do it. �Most of what my garden produces I give away. �Today I gave
> > away two large butternut squash and two large cabbages, make that
> > three cabbages, gave two to my neighbor and one to my tenant. �I still
> > have four more large cabbages in the garden and more squash... I
> > picked some for me too but I can't fit any more in my fridge. �It
> > would have been immeasurably less costly to simply buy a few cabbage
> > and squash for like under $20... growing my own two cabbage and two
> > squash cost like $200, probably more. �But even knowing this I don't
> > mind.
>
> Aren't you the same Penmart who was putting down people who would can
> their own tomatoes because it is cheaper to buy them? � <grin>

Of course buying canned tomatoes is less expensive, they're better
tomatoes then home canned too, because the huge commercial tomato
farms grow better canning varietes than the typical home gardner. I
don't bother growing canning/cooking tomatoes anymore, they're too
weather sensitive for northern climes... this year from a dozen roma
plants I only two days ago harvested just two tomatoes. The home
gardener does much better with salad tomatoes, but they're much too
juicy for processing. I buy canned tomatoes from Sam's Club and sales
at stupidmarkets. The varieties available change but there are always
good choices. Sometimes I'll buy a few #10 cans, a perfect size to
make up a pot of pasta sauce for the freezer. I can't possibly grow
and can tomatoes at this price: http://www.samsclub.com/shopping/nav...=5&item=204399

Sheldon wrote:
Sometimes I'll buy a few #10 cans, a perfect size to
> make up a pot of pasta sauce for the freezer. I can't possibly grow
> and can tomatoes at this price: http://www.samsclub.com/shopping/nav...=5&item=204399
>

I too often use one #10 can of whole tomatoes along with one #10 can of
tomato puree or sauce to make large batches of tomato sauce for the
freezer. More often than not my son takes a bunch to feed his buddies
with. It takes the same amount of time for me to make a large batch as a
smaller one as far as I'm concerned.

On Oct 2, 10:36*am, Goomba > wrote:
> Sheldon wrote:
>
> * *Sometimes I'll buy a few #10 cans, a perfect size to
>
> > make up a pot of pasta sauce for the freezer. *I can't possibly grow
> > and can tomatoes at this price: *http://www.samsclub.com/shopping/nav...=5&item=204399
>
> I too often use one #10 can of whole tomatoes along with one #10 can of
> tomato puree or sauce to make large batches of tomato sauce for the
> freezer. More often than not my son takes a bunch to feed his buddies
> with. It takes the same amount of time for me to make a large batch as a
> smaller one as far as I'm concerned.

Exactly what I do- I also freeze leftover meats/gravies (Chicago Style
Beef is perfect for this) and add them to the pot. Cash & Carry or
Smart & Final are great places to shop for stuff if you want to avoid
the traffic at Costco...

"Melba's Jammin'" wrote
> Sheldon > wrote:

>> would have been immeasurably less costly to simply buy a few cabbage
>> and squash for like under $20... growing my own two cabbage and two
>> squash cost like $200, probably more. But even knowing this I don't
>> mind.
>
> Aren't you the same Penmart who was putting down people who would can
> their own tomatoes because it is cheaper to buy them? <grin>

That and the seriously exaggurated prices. The guy spent 200$ growing a few
head of cabbage and squash?

I grow a few things for fun but I dont need to outlay much. Next year will
be the most expensive as I make the raised garden boxes (36feet long, 2ft
wide, about 2ft tall) but that is for *fun* and i won't claim that growing a
few tomatoes cost 200$ just because the boxes may run close to that in wood
and filler soil. Afterall, they will last me 20 years.

Reality, I spent 20$ in potting soil, 10$ in plants and for 30$ got all the
catnip, bell peppers, bannana pepper, lettuce, tomatoes, rosemary,
cucumbers, and squash (though the squash didnt last long) we could eat.
Next year when i do not have to fill the planters from base up (just
fertilize a bit) I can do the same for just the cost of plants and in some
cases seeds.

I saved money even this year. Next year will be better. My cost outlay for
those veggies this year would have easily hit 40$ on lettuce alone.
Possibly 30$ in green bell peppers. Priced cucumbers lately? Got 15lbs
dried weight of dried tomatoes, 4 lbs dried hot peppers, 8 quarts tomato
sauce, and a huge lot of dried rosemary as well as catnip.

Oh yes. I did very well. I not only had fun, I cropped out probably 200$
worth based on grocery prices of organics in my own little container garden.
60$ outlay much of which is just intial costs to get started.

We grow our own veggies in the summer, I absolutely think its a money
saving alternative. I look forward to having my own fresh veggies
every year!

On Oct 1, 10:21*am, Mikie > wrote:
> In the VegetableGardeningvenue, there was a post where the writer
> felt there was no monetary gain in growing your own veggies.
>
> Well! *If you grow a chemical garden, you're probably right! *But the
> gain from an organic garden cannot be measured in dollars! *Think!
>
> Mikie

On Oct 1, 7:21*am, Mikie > wrote:
> In the Vegetable Gardening venue, there was a post where the writer
> felt there was no monetary gain in growing your own veggies.
>
> Well! *If you grow a chemical garden, you're probably right! *But the
> gain from an organic garden cannot be measured in dollars! *Think!
>
> Mikie

Well, a lot of the things said here are true, but I think it depends
on what you grow. I have had an herb garden for years, and think I
have saved quite a bit of money in that department. It's also always
there!

"cshenk" > wrote:
> "Melba's Jammin'" wrote
>
> > Sheldon > wrote:
>
> �>> would have been immeasurably less costly to simply buy a few cabbage
>
> >> and squash for like under $20... growing my own two cabbage and two
> >> squash cost like $200, probably more. �But even knowing this I don't
> >> mind.
>
> > Aren't you the same Penmart who was putting down people who would can
> > their own tomatoes because it is cheaper to buy them? � <grin>
>
> That and the seriously exaggurated prices. �The guy spent 200$ growing a few
> head of cabbage and squash?
>
> I grow a few things for fun but I dont need to outlay much. �Next year will
> be the most expensive as I make the raised garden boxes (36feet long, 2ft
> wide, about 2ft tall) but that is for *fun* and i won't claim that growing a

You're not believeable, a raised bed those dimensions is not
believeable... no one in their right mind is going to construct a
raised bed to those idiotic dimensions... I think you just made that
up, you're obviously lying/dreaming.

> few tomatoes cost 200$ just because the boxes may run close to that in wood
> and filler soil. �Afterall, they will last me 20 years.

A properly *dimensioned* and constructed raised bed offering 72 sq ft
(36X2) with proper soil will cost well over $600... more if you want
it to last 20 years. And 72 sq ft (the area of a standard bathroom)
is not nearly enough area to grow very much... I would recommend no
less than 500 sq ft for 2-4 people to make it worthwhile. Too cramped
is too labor intensive, and production to area ratio of a crowded
garden will be low. My garden is 2,500 sq ft and by rural living
standards is considered quite small.

Decent tomato cages cost about $20 each, and with luck they will last
4-5 years. The fencing alone to deer/critter proof my garden cost
over $1,000. My garden is covered with many hundreds of dollars worth
of weed block cloth. I have a gardening shed the size of an oversized
one car garage... where will you keep all your tools and supplies....
you don't know much about gardening, maybe you once had a Chia Pet.

It's weird how so many have boasted of their gardening prowess and
knock mine yet in all these years I've still to see even one vegetable
garden posted here other than my own.

On Oct 2, 4:56*pm, merryb > wrote:
> On Oct 1, 7:21*am, Mikie > wrote:
>
> > In the VegetableGardeningvenue, there was a post where the writer
> > felt there was no monetary gain in growing your own veggies.
>
> > Well! *If you grow a chemical garden, you're probably right! *But the
> > gain from an organic garden cannot be measured in dollars! *Think!
>
> > Mikie
>
> Well, a lot of the things said here are true, but I think it depends
> on what you grow. I have had an herb garden for years, and think I
> have saved quite a bit of money in that department. It's also always
> there!

I absolutely agree, fresh herbs are the best!!

wrote:

> I absolutely agree, fresh herbs are the best!!
>
I'm swooning and sated tonight after making a HUGE batch of pesto with
all the basil growing like mad on my back deck.


> * Exported from MasterCook *
> Koko's Pesto

> Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method
> -------- ------------ --------------------------------
> 2 cups basil leaves, washed and patted dry
> 4 large garlic cloves, peeled and chopped
> 3/4 cup pine nuts, lightly toasted (*watch carefully)
> 1 cup extra virgin olive oil
> 1 cup parmesan cheese, freshly grated
> 1/4 cup romano cheese, freshly grated (up to 1/3 cup)
> salt and pepper to taste
>
> Lightly toast the pine nuts in small skillet.
> Combine the basil, garlic and pine nuts in the bowl of the food
> processor. (*I did garlic alone first, then added basil and nuts)
> Leave the motor running and add the olive oil in a slow, steady stream.
> Shut the motor off (*scrape down sides,mix lightly if needed) add the
> cheeses and the salt & a liberal grinding of peppe. Process briefly to
> combine, then scrape out of a bowl and cover until ready to use.
> Based on a recipe found in The Silver Palate Cookbook.

On Oct 1, 10:21*am, Mikie > wrote:
> In the VegetableGardeningvenue, there was a post where the writer
> felt there was no monetary gain in growing your own veggies.
>
> Well! *If you grow a chemical garden, you're probably right! *But the
> gain from an organic garden cannot be measured in dollars! *Think!
>
> Mikie

On Oct 2, 4:56*pm, merryb > wrote:
> On Oct 1, 7:21*am, Mikie > wrote:
>
> > In the VegetableGardeningvenue, there was a post where the writer
> > felt there was no monetary gain in growing your own veggies.
>
> > Well! *If you grow a chemical garden, you're probably right! *But the
> > gain from an organic garden cannot be measured in dollars! *Think!
>
> > Mikie
>
> Well, a lot of the things said here are true, but I think it depends
> on what you grow. I have had an herb garden for years, and think I
> have saved quite a bit of money in that department. It's also always
> there!

I am sure you have saved money, not to mention the advantage of fresh
herbs in your kitchen!!

Sheldon wrote:
> Decent tomato cages cost about $20 each, and with luck they will last
> 4-5 years. snip
>
> It's weird how so many have boasted of their gardening prowess and
> knock mine yet in all these years I've still to see even one vegetable
> garden posted here other than my own.

You don't buy "tomato cages.' You make them out of a roll of concrete
reinforcing wire. The 4-inch spacing of the wires allows the hand to move
in and pick easily. You cut a length of concrete reinforcing wire to make
the diameter cage that you want (add another 4-8 inches for overlap) Cut
the verticle wire from the outside of one end. Roll entire cut length into
the cage shape and bend the outside, exposed horizontal wires onto the other
end of the wire cage to form a closure for the tube you have formed. Cut
the entire length of bottom horizontal wire from the cage. This will leave
you with exposed vertical spikes of wire that you push into the ground to
hold the cage upright and in place. My cages are easily 20+ years old.

Sheldon, I showed you pictures of my tomato plants last year. If I have
time I will dredge up some more photos to post.
Janet

"Janet Bostwick" wrote:
> Sheldon wrote:
> > Decent tomato cages cost about $20 each, and with luck they will last
> > 4-5 years. �snip
>
> > It's weird how so many have boasted of their gardening prowess and
> > knock mine yet in all these years I've still to see even one vegetable
> > garden posted here other than my own.
>
> You don't buy "tomato cages.' �You make them out of a roll of concrete
> reinforcing wire. �The 4-inch spacing of the wires allows the hand to move
> in and pick easily. �

Remesh wire has 5" openings... 4" is too small for pulling your hand
back out while holding a decent sized tomato... that you don't know
the standard opening size proves to me that you've never made any.

> You cut a length of concrete reinforcing wire to make
> the diameter cage that you want (add another 4-8 inches for overlap) �Cut
> the verticle wire from the outside of one end. �Roll entire cut length into
> the cage shape and bend the outside, exposed horizontal wires onto the other
> end of the wire cage to form a closure for the tube you have formed. �Cut
> the entire length of bottom horizontal wire from the cage. �This will leave
> you with exposed vertical spikes of wire that you push into the ground to
> hold the cage upright and in place. �My cages are easily 20+ years old.

I've seen all sorts of DIY tomato cages on the net, none of which are
as economical and/or as utile as store bought... including your
concrete wire ones. Unless you can get it for free concrete
reinforcement wire (remesh) isn't cheap, a roll enough for making 10
cages will cost like $100. And that wire is too heavy, it's over
kill... the thick wire gets too hot from the sun and damages plants,
and it rusts very easily which abrades plants. And once made up they
do not nest or fold. Where does one store so many cages... I have
about 100 that nest or fold... those home made type would fill my
entire gardening shed and still overflow. And I don't want any
stinkin' rusty tomato cages... mine are all galvanized or vinyl
coated. Remesh can be custom ordered in galvanzied and different
dimensions, even different wire gauge, but it will be very
expensive.

150 feet may seem like a lot but after figuring the
circumference it's easy to see it won't make many cages, and if I'm
going to the trouble I much prefer square and large, at least 20"
sq... you can buy cheapo uncoated wire cages ready made for about the
same price, and those will nest. It's really too labor intensive to
make one's own from remesh, and too easy to stab/gash yourself. And a
large roll is very heavy, and extremely difficult to unroll... I work
with turkey wire for fencing, it's much lighter and far less ridgid,
but still is a rough job to work. Often when folks order a concrete
patio or driveway the contractors sneakily omit the remesh, because
it's expensive and laborious.

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?actio...142&lpage=none

Sheldon wrote:
>> You don't buy "tomato cages.' ?You make them out of a roll of
>> concrete reinforcing wire. ?The 4-inch spacing of the wires allows
>> the hand to move in and pick easily. ?
>
> Remesh wire has 5" openings... 4" is too small for pulling your hand
> back out while holding a decent sized tomato... that you don't know
> the standard opening size proves to me that you've never made any.

You're right -- the openings aren't 4 inches. I just measured them and they
are 6 inches square. I just store the cages at the edge of the garden until
next year. They don't rust in the way that you mean. They acquire a dull,
brownish patina and that is all. They don't harm the plants. The cages end
up being about 5 feet tall and I need that. My tomato plants (and
cucumbers) grow up to the top, fill the cage body, spill over and drop back
down until they are back at the ground at the end of the season. I plant
tomatos 3 foot on center and the cages stand shoulder to shoulder(giving
reinforced strength). I don't have time for wimpy tomato cages that fold
and collapse, I need something totally sturdy to support that much body and
weight. Because there are only 2 of us in the household now and 10 other
adults in the neighborhood that I can give to, I only plant 4 or 5 tomato
plants and 4 cucumber plants. As it is, we can't consume them all even
though we cook with them as well as eat them fresh in every way possible
every day. You can buy sheets of the wire that will give you 2 narrower
cages. Turkey wire is very sharp when cut and can give a person a nasty
cut. It is also fairly fragile when not stretched between fence posts. Not
a good candidate for vegetable cages. I don't use it for anything anymore
anymore. When cutting, use bolt cutters, wear leather gloves, and position
the roll of wire so that it curves downward. That way the length can't roll
back up on you. HTH.
Janet
I just picked another half bushel of tomatoes before the oncoming rain and
wind storm. There's still plenty there.

"Sheldon" wrote
"cshenk" > wrote:

>> I grow a few things for fun but I dont need to outlay much. ?Next year
>> will
>> be the most expensive as I make the raised garden boxes (36feet long, 2ft
>> wide, about 2ft tall) but that is for *fun* and i won't claim that
>> growing a

>You're not believeable, a raised bed those dimensions is not
>believeable... no one in their right mind is going to construct a
>raised bed to those idiotic dimensions... I think you just made that
>up, you're obviously lying/dreaming.

No, it's just what I want. You arent aware of the construction details of
my house and have made assumptions as normal of you. You also do not account
(possibly did not know) that i cant lean over much so raising it helps the
back and it's not deep enough to be a problem.

It's a 44 foot screened porch wall on one end, and 13 feet on the other
around the corner. Patio door along the corner. Needs retainer wall and
this will be adapted to be a part garden and part retainer. The wall of the
porch is about 32 inches high. A 24 inch rise below it will let us see the
flowers through the screen (and a few food plants get added here and there).
Could be we reduce the height along the 13ft corner section as the wall
there on the inside is just 3 inches then sunroom above that. Herbs and
such would work nicely there and do not need much depth.

>> few tomatoes cost 200$ just because the boxes may run close to that in
>> wood
>> and filler soil. ?Afterall, they will last me 20 years.

>A properly *dimensioned* and constructed raised bed offering 72 sq ft
>(36X2) with proper soil will cost well over $600... more if you want

Really? Gee, thanks for the advice but I already have bought all the stuff
and unlike you, I did not inflate the price at all.

The backwall is mortar (water retainer wall) and brick. Got the brick at
local freecycle plus had quite a bit here already. The wood is raised on a
base of cement (had to extend the footer for slab reasons). The viewable
side is decking wood which is quite cheap to get (less than 100$) and will
require some replacemnts over time, say every 3-4 years some have to be
replaced. Digging the trench for the footer provides much of the 'dirt'
needed which is mixed with a topsoil mix.

If i underestimated, it's the cost of topsoil (as in how much). It $2.50 a
75lb bag here. Since the footer dig out is 2 ft deep, I actually have too
much 'soil' to fill the planters when we add topsoil to enrich it.

>Wierd how so many have boasted of their gardening prowess and
>knock mine yet in all these years I've still to see even one vegetable
>garden posted here other than my own.

Thats because you do not listen to the others who have them or do not
respect the sizes of them so ignore them.

You possibly have trouble understanding my posts as you appear to have never
truely porch container gardened (such as one may have in Hawaii on the 27th
floor etc). It doesnt have to just be flowers. Some food plants do well
with it also. Done it many a time in those little plastic long pots not
more than 8 inches deep.

"Sheldon" wrote
"Janet Bostwick" wrote:

>I've seen all sorts of DIY tomato cages on the net, none of which are
>as economical and/or as utile as store bought.

Dude, someone needs to show you how to shop. Unfortunately, your seem
resistant to suggestions on how to do things more cheaply.

With as much land as you see to have, putting them to the side is not an
issue so you do not need collapsable units. People like me may, but not you.

cshenk wrote:
> "Sheldon" wrote
> "Janet Bostwick" wrote:
>
>> I've seen all sorts of DIY tomato cages on the net, none of which are
>> as economical and/or as utile as store bought.
>
> Dude, someone needs to show you how to shop. Unfortunately, your seem
> resistant to suggestions on how to do things more cheaply.
>
> With as much land as you see to have, putting them to the side is not
> an issue so you do not need collapsable units. People like me may,
> but not you.

Exactly. These tomato cages were devised right here, at my home -- long
before the 'net' was a research tool.
Janet

On Fri, 3 Oct 2008 21:01:48 -0400, "cshenk" > wrote:

>"Sheldon" wrote
>"cshenk" > wrote:
>
>>> I grow a few things for fun but I dont need to outlay much. ?Next year
>>> will
>>> be the most expensive as I make the raised garden boxes (36feet long, 2ft
>>> wide, about 2ft tall) but that is for *fun* and i won't claim that
>>> growing a
>
>>You're not believeable, a raised bed those dimensions is not
>>believeable... no one in their right mind is going to construct a
>>raised bed to those idiotic dimensions... I think you just made that
>>up, you're obviously lying/dreaming.
>
>No, it's just what I want. You arent aware of the construction details of
>my house and have made assumptions as normal of you. You also do not account
>(possibly did not know) that i cant lean over much so raising it helps the
>back and it's not deep enough to be a problem.
>
>It's a 44 foot screened porch wall on one end, and 13 feet on the other
>around the corner. Patio door along the corner. Needs retainer wall and
>this will be adapted to be a part garden and part retainer. The wall of the
>porch is about 32 inches high. A 24 inch rise below it will let us see the
>flowers through the screen (and a few food plants get added here and there).
>Could be we reduce the height along the 13ft corner section as the wall
>there on the inside is just 3 inches then sunroom above that. Herbs and
>such would work nicely there and do not need much depth.
>
>>> few tomatoes cost 200$ just because the boxes may run close to that in
>>> wood
>>> and filler soil. ?Afterall, they will last me 20 years.
>
>>A properly *dimensioned* and constructed raised bed offering 72 sq ft
>>(36X2) with proper soil will cost well over $600... more if you want
>
>Really? Gee, thanks for the advice but I already have bought all the stuff
>and unlike you, I did not inflate the price at all.
>
>The backwall is mortar (water retainer wall) and brick. Got the brick at
>local freecycle plus had quite a bit here already. The wood is raised on a
>base of cement (had to extend the footer for slab reasons). The viewable
>side is decking wood which is quite cheap to get (less than 100$) and will
>require some replacemnts over time, say every 3-4 years some have to be
>replaced. Digging the trench for the footer provides much of the 'dirt'
>needed which is mixed with a topsoil mix.
>
>If i underestimated, it's the cost of topsoil (as in how much). It $2.50 a
>75lb bag here. Since the footer dig out is 2 ft deep, I actually have too
>much 'soil' to fill the planters when we add topsoil to enrich it.
>
>>Wierd how so many have boasted of their gardening prowess and
>>knock mine yet in all these years I've still to see even one vegetable
>>garden posted here other than my own.
>
>Thats because you do not listen to the others who have them or do not
>respect the sizes of them so ignore them.
>
>You possibly have trouble understanding my posts as you appear to have never
>truely porch container gardened (such as one may have in Hawaii on the 27th
>floor etc). It doesnt have to just be flowers. Some food plants do well
>with it also. Done it many a time in those little plastic long pots not
>more than 8 inches deep.
>

I was at the NC regional fair yesterday and picked up some interesting
reading. One is on Raised Bed Gardening. It can be downloaded from
www.oznet.ksu.edu. Search for Raised Bed Gardening.

Virginia also has county extension offices in most counties and larger
cities. There should be one in Virginia beach or Norfolk. They will
have information for the particular area.

"Janet Bostwick" wrote
> cshenk wrote:
>> "Sheldon" wrote

>>> I've seen all sorts of DIY tomato cages on the net, none of which are
>>> as economical and/or as utile as store bought.
>>
>> Dude, someone needs to show you how to shop. Unfortunately, your seem
>> resistant to suggestions on how to do things more cheaply.
>>
>> With as much land as you see to have, putting them to the side is not
>> an issue so you do not need collapsable units. People like me may,
>> but not you.
>
> Exactly. These tomato cages were devised right here, at my home -- long
> before the 'net' was a research tool.

I could do your version even with my smaller yard, since I have just a few
plants. I have to get the bigger 'wire' than I have now so you can reach in
and grab a few, but it it would be really easy to make. I'd use a staple gun
and 4 posts. Remove and prop to the side when prepping the ground for next
year.

"The Cook" wrote
>"cshenk" wrote:

Thanks! I looked over the page and nothing new there for *me* but quite a
bit for others who've not tried this.

>>(possibly did not know) that i cant lean over much so raising it helps the
>>back and it's not deep enough to be a problem.

>>>A properly *dimensioned* and constructed raised bed offering 72 sq ft
>>>(36X2) with proper soil will cost well over $600... more if you want

His box is probably 6-8 inchs high. My back doesnt not allow for working
with this.

www.oznet.ksu.edu. Search for Raised Bed Gardening.
>
> Virginia also has county extension offices in most counties and larger
> cities. There should be one in Virginia beach or Norfolk. They will
> have information for the particular area.

Lots and i've already been to them and learned much but others may need that
reminder!

There is also advice on the web or in person here, for folks with
significant back problems (debilitating, not just 'gee, my back hurts today'
but like me, holding wheelchair at stay) on how to continue to have quality
of life and adapt to new conditions. You do what you need to. If I want a
garden, I have to either raise it from ground up or container it on rised
footings.

Not looking for sympathy, just explaining a little reality. I want to play
with plants so have to get them to my level (grin).

cshenk wrote:
> "Janet Bostwick" wrote
>> cshenk wrote:
>>> "Sheldon" wrote
>
>>>> I've seen all sorts of DIY tomato cages on the net, none of which
>>>> are as economical and/or as utile as store bought.
>>>
>>> Dude, someone needs to show you how to shop. Unfortunately, your
>>> seem resistant to suggestions on how to do things more cheaply.
>>>
>>> With as much land as you see to have, putting them to the side is
>>> not an issue so you do not need collapsable units. People like me
>>> may, but not you.
>>
>> Exactly. These tomato cages were devised right here, at my home --
>> long before the 'net' was a research tool.
>
> I could do your version even with my smaller yard, since I have just
> a few plants. I have to get the bigger 'wire' than I have now so you
> can reach in and grab a few, but it it would be really easy to make.
> I'd use a staple gun and 4 posts. Remove and prop to the side when
> prepping the ground for next year.

I also use them for peonies, delphiniums and poppies and the like. The
color of the wire blends right in as the plants grow. You just need to cut
a shorter height or cut the wire in a different direction.We get bouts of
gusty winds here that can drive everything right down to the ground.
Janet

I'm miffed because the windows in my flat face due North and East.

Thought of growing mushrooms but it would give the place a musty smell.

I'll wait 'til they put up tax again on alcohol then I'll start brewing my
own.




>>>>>>>>>---------------------<<<<<<<<<


http://www.gillsmith999.plus.com/


>>>>>>>>>---------------------<<<<<<<<<

"cshenk" wrote:
> "Sheldon" wrote
>
> "Janet Bostwick" wrote:
> >I've seen all sorts of DIY tomato cages on the net, none of which are
> >as economical and/or as utile as store bought.
>
> Dude, someone needs to show you how to shop. �Unfortunately, your seem
> resistant to suggestions on how to do things more cheaply.

I don't look for cheap, cheap is expensive.

> With as much land as you seem to have, putting them to the side is not an
> issue so you do not need collapsable units. People like me may, but not you.

It works for you, but I don't choose to live with piles of crap strewn
all about my property, trailer trash style... one can only imagine the
weed lot you call a garden.