ChattyCathy wrote:
> http://www.recfoodcooking.com

My very first TFH! It pays to call in sick, huh?

I totally want the tiara.

Serene

--
"I am an agnostic only to the extent that I am agnostic about fairies at
the bottom of the garden." -- Richard Dawkins

http://www.recfoodcooking.com
--
Cheers
Chatty Cathy

There is no such thing as a little garlic. ~A. Baer

Serene Vannoy wrote:

> ChattyCathy wrote:
>> http://www.recfoodcooking.com
>
> My very first TFH! It pays to call in sick, huh?
>
> I totally want the tiara.
>
> Serene
>

It's yours.
--
Cheers
Chatty Cathy

There is no such thing as a little garlic. ~A. Baer

"ChattyCathy" > wrote in message
...
> http://www.recfoodcooking.com
> --
> Cheers
> Chatty Cathy
>
> There is no such thing as a little garlic. ~A. Baer

I have replaced "parts' of the kitchen and had a lot re-done after the 94
quake but never a total remodel.

I did have to have a total section redone due to the purchase of a double
oven to replace a single oven - What a headache.



Dimitri

"Dimitri" > wrote

> "ChattyCathy" > wrote

> I have replaced "parts' of the kitchen and had a lot re-done after the 94
> quake but never a total remodel.
>
> I did have to have a total section redone due to the purchase of a double
> oven to replace a single oven - What a headache.

I think maybe doing parts would be more difficult than doing
the whole thing. Trying to line up the new with the old, etc.

My kitchen was a gut job. I was so happy to see that hole torn
out, I wanted to help with the demo. I've seen people on tv
shows who mourn their old kitchen, what have I done?? That
wasn't me. Good. Bye. Don't show your plywood and
paneling around here again.

Perhaps I found it to be so painless because the guy did most
of the work in something like a week. Moved a window, placed
the cabinets and appliances, sink, disposal, countertops ...
only took a week. I have wondered why it takes months for
some kitchens.

After that I had the floor guy come in, and it was done. I was
happy as a clam during the entire process.

nancy

On Sep 2, 1:38*pm, ChattyCathy > wrote:
> http://www.recfoodcooking.com
> --
> Cheers
> Chatty Cathy
>
> There is no such thing as a little garlic. *~A. Baer

I wonder if enjoyment of the remodeling process has anything to do
with
how much hands-on involvement one has.

We did everything ourselves, and it was a blast. Granted, hanging the
wallpaper (which we'd never done before) was not as much fun as the
demolition, but it was still very satisfying start to finish.

I've got a different house now, and I want to do it again before we
get too
old.

Cindy Hamilton

"Nancy Young" > ha scritto nel messaggio
> I think maybe doing parts would be more difficult than doing
> the whole thing. Trying to line up the new with the old, etc.
>
> My kitchen was a gut job. I was so happy to see that hole torn
> out, I wanted to help with the demo. I've seen people on tv
> shows who mourn their old kitchen, what have I done?? That
> wasn't me. Good. Bye. Don't show your plywood and
> paneling around here again.
>
> Perhaps I found it to be so painless because the guy did most
> of the work in something like a week. Moved a window, placed
> the cabinets and appliances, sink, disposal, countertops ...
> only took a week. I have wondered why it takes months for
> some kitchens.
>
> After that I had the floor guy come in, and it was done. I was
> happy as a clam during the entire process.
>
> nancy

You, my deal lady, were damned lucky! So many times when ripping out we
found horrific hidden problems that needed big extra work. With all the
water, electricity and weight in kitchens, anything might come up.

My kitchen here was a headache because with thick masonry walls EVERYWHERE,
you have to use a jackhammer to make trenches in walls or floor for each and
every pipe, heating pipe, wire, even antenna and phone wires. Then you have
weeks of infill, finish coats, sanding and final surfaces. Cavity walls
make all that a lot less painful.

OTH, it is a rare thing here to get a kitchen when you buy a home, or even
when you rent one. So kitchens get a new look-see whenever a home changes
hands.
>

Nancy Young wrote:

> Perhaps I found it to be so painless because the guy did most
> of the work in something like a week. Moved a window, placed
> the cabinets and appliances, sink, disposal, countertops ...
> only took a week. I have wondered why it takes months for
> some kitchens.
>
A week? Damn. I wish it had taken only a week
First came "destruction" which only took a day and a half, only because
the guy took a little time to hang some of the old cabinets up in the
garage around the freezer. Hanging the new cabinets took a week, and a
majority of the time was spent on molding work. I had no idea how time
consuming that work is. Then electricians had to work while the room was
empty, and initially left the undercab lighting wires hanging out, then
once the wall cabinets hung they came back to finish. The gas man had to
move the gas line and the duct for the vent up in the ceiling to
outside. The floor only took a day. The counter being granite doesn't
even get measured for and ordered until the base cabinets in place. So
there was a lot of "down time" waiting for it (3 weeks) And all the
workers seem to have other jobs (the nerve!) to work around as they
scheduled things.

> After that I had the floor guy come in, and it was done. I was
> happy as a clam during the entire process.
>
> nancy

I'm happy again )) <--see! LOL

Dimitri wrote:
>
>
> I have replaced "parts' of the kitchen and had a lot re-done after the
> 94 quake but never a total remodel.
>
> I did have to have a total section redone due to the purchase of a
> double oven to replace a single oven - What a headache.

I did mine in stages. The first step was to replace the cupboards,
counter top, build a closet where there used to be counter, and to build
a pantry under a set of cupboards and then wall papering and flooring A
few years later we ripped down the wallpaper and put up tongue and
groove pine on the walls and closets. Then a few years later we ripped
up the flooring and had ceramic tiles laid.

I had the cupboards built and installed. I did all the rest myself. I
was going to call a plumber to do the sink. At that time, close to 30
years ago, he wanted $350 for labour. I went to the hardware, bought the
sink, drain pieces and taps, borrowed a saber saw and installed the
sink myself in less than 2 hours. I found out how easy most plumbing is
and have never had to call a plumber since.

Nancy Young wrote:
>
> Perhaps I found it to be so painless because the guy did most
> of the work in something like a week. Moved a window, placed
> the cabinets and appliances, sink, disposal, countertops ...
> only took a week. I have wondered why it takes months for
> some kitchens.
>
> After that I had the floor guy come in, and it was done. I was
> happy as a clam during the entire process.

You have to wonder about some of these long term projects. They first
stage of mine was two days. I had ordered the cabinets and got an
installation date. When the installation date approached I confirmed
it. The night before the installers came a friend came over and helped
me rip out the old cupboards and counter and build a bulkhead. The
installers came the next day. They were there first thing in the morning
and gone by noon. I cut the hole in the counter for the sink and
installed the sink and fittings. Then I ripped up the old tile floor
and laid new linoleum tiles and sanded the bulkhead. My wife papered it
that weekend.

Granted, it is not a huge kitchen and has only basic facilities, but if
an amateur can handle that in a few days I would expect a professional
to be able to handle a larger job a reasonable time.

Some people work faster than others. My father was very handy. He could
do plumbing, wiring, wood working and masonry as well as papering and
painting. One year when he was transferred we moved into a new house.
The floors had just been finished the day before we moved in. He put my
brothers and I to work helping him. He painted the living room, dining
room, hallways, three bedrooms upstairs, papered the kitchen and two
bathrooms, drywalled his work shop, laundry room and the third bathroom,
tiled the entire basement floor and built the rec room. Everything was
finished by Christmas. The only part he had someone else to was the wall
to wall carpeting.

When Dad retired, his first project was to renovate the kitchen. He
replaced the counters, sanded, primed and painted the cupboards, built
slide outs for the lower cupboards, replaced the sink and fixtures,
replaced the ceiling lamp, installed wood flooring and an exhaust fan.
He was finished in less than a week.

On Tue, 02 Sep 2008 19:38:29 +0200, ChattyCathy
> wrote:

>http://www.recfoodcooking.com

I've done several for myself and several for others. All were fun but
I never had to hire someone else. I imagine working with a contractor
would change my opinion. I did one years ago in a house built in
1911. That one was a blast because the kitchen was huge. About 2
years ago I did one in a Chicago brownstone built in the 1920's. That
one had to be brought down to brick it was so bad. I wish I could
find the pictures.

Lou

Dave Smith wrote: I
> was going to call a plumber to do the sink. At that time, close to 30
> years ago, he wanted $350 for labour. I went to the hardware, bought the
> sink, drain pieces and taps, borrowed a saber saw and installed the
> sink myself in less than 2 hours. I found out how easy most plumbing is
> and have never had to call a plumber since.
>
My husband does most of our plumbing too. His motto is "ya just gotta be
smarter than the pipe!" LOL

On Sep 2, 5:11�pm, Goomba > wrote:
> Dave Smith wrote: I
> > was going to call a plumber to do the sink. At that time, close to 30
> > years ago, he wanted $350 for labour. I went to the hardware, bought the
> > �sink, drain pieces and taps, borrowed a saber saw and installed the
> > sink myself in less than 2 hours. I found out how easy most plumbing is
> > and have never had to call a plumber since.
>
> My husband does most of our plumbing too. His motto is "ya just gotta be
> smarter than the pipe!" � LOL

Actually the plumber's creed is all ya gotta know is payday is on
friday and shit runs down hill. heheh

"Giusi" > wrote

> "Nancy Young" > ha scritto nel messaggio

>> Perhaps I found it to be so painless because the guy did most
>> of the work in something like a week. Moved a window, placed
>> the cabinets and appliances, sink, disposal, countertops ...
>> only took a week. I have wondered why it takes months for
>> some kitchens.

> You, my deal lady, were damned lucky! So many times when ripping out we
> found horrific hidden problems that needed big extra work. With all the
> water, electricity and weight in kitchens, anything might come up.
>
> My kitchen here was a headache because with thick masonry walls
> EVERYWHERE, you have to use a jackhammer to make trenches in walls or
> floor for each and every pipe, heating pipe, wire, even antenna and phone
> wires. Then you have weeks of infill, finish coats, sanding and final
> surfaces. Cavity walls make all that a lot less painful.

I am definitely talking about a situation where I didn't move the plumbing
by much, nor the basic layout. Of course if there are extensive changes
to an existing kitchen, or heaven forbid, expansion or new construction,
that's a whole other thing.

Masonry walls? Oh, forget it, that's not even on the same planet,
remodel-wise.

Just a basic remodel, new cabinets, no big plumbing moves, that's
where I don't understand what takes months. My contractor did
it all, so I know that he didn't have time wasted waiting for people
to show up. He also fixed the siding where the window had moved.
Looked around the garage and found a can of stain leftover from the
last time we stained, and stained the new siding!

He just showed up, put his head down and got to work. No time for
anything but work, he had jobs lined up far as the eye can see.
Yes, I was lucky to find him.

> OTH, it is a rare thing here to get a kitchen when you buy a home, or even
> when you rent one. So kitchens get a new look-see whenever a home changes
> hands.

You have freestanding furniture, as I understand it. A whole new
level of 'packing up the kitchen' for the move.

nancy

Goomba wrote:
> Dave Smith wrote: I
>> was going to call a plumber to do the sink. At that time, close to 30
>> years ago, he wanted $350 for labour. I went to the hardware, bought
>> the sink, drain pieces and taps, borrowed a saber saw and installed
>> the sink myself in less than 2 hours. I found out how easy most
>> plumbing is and have never had to call a plumber since.
>>
> My husband does most of our plumbing too. His motto is "ya just gotta be
> smarter than the pipe!" LOL


Tradesmen often say that plumbing is the easiest trade because there are
only two things you need to know; Payday is Thursday and shit flows
downhill.

On Tue, 02 Sep 2008 16:01:40 -0500, Lou Decruss >
wrote:

>On Tue, 02 Sep 2008 19:38:29 +0200, ChattyCathy
> wrote:
>
>>http://www.recfoodcooking.com
>
>I've done several for myself and several for others. All were fun but
>I never had to hire someone else. I imagine working with a contractor
>would change my opinion. I did one years ago in a house built in
>1911. That one was a blast because the kitchen was huge. About 2
>years ago I did one in a Chicago brownstone built in the 1920's. That
>one had to be brought down to brick it was so bad. I wish I could
>find the pictures.

I can't find the final product but I did find one after it was gutted
and we started framing. This is about as far as a gut job can get and
the kitchen turned out beautiful. It was fun and the rent doubled.

http://i33.tinypic.com/21l3ij9.jpg

Lou

"Nancy Young" > ha scritto nel messaggio
. ..
>
> "Giusi" > wrote

> I am definitely talking about a situation where I didn't move the plumbing
> by much, nor the basic layout. Of course if there are extensive changes
> to an existing kitchen, or heaven forbid, expansion or new construction,
> that's a whole other thing.

It's usually only newer homes where you don't have to move much. The world
has altered so much since WWII that even renovated houses from before then
need heavier updating.

>> OTH, it is a rare thing here to get a kitchen when you buy a home, or
>> even when you rent one. So kitchens get a new look-see whenever a home
>> changes hands.
>
> You have freestanding furniture, as I understand it. A whole new
> level of 'packing up the kitchen' for the move.
>
> nancy

They call it furniture, but the cabinets here are exactly like the cabinets
there. There are lots of Italian cabinets sold and used in the US. It's
just a different attitude about what is mobile and what is not.

Cindy Hamilton wrote:

> On Sep 2, 1:38Â*pm, ChattyCathy > wrote:
>> http://www.recfoodcooking.com
>> --
>> Cheers
>> Chatty Cathy
>>
>> There is no such thing as a little garlic. Â*~A. Baer
>
> I wonder if enjoyment of the remodeling process has anything to do
> with
> how much hands-on involvement one has.
>
> We did everything ourselves, and it was a blast. Granted, hanging the
> wallpaper (which we'd never done before) was not as much fun as the
> demolition, but it was still very satisfying start to finish.

I've never been through a kitchen remodel myself as an adult, but I
remember when Dad remodeled our whole kitchen himself when I was only 8
or 9 y/o. It was no skin of my nose, as I wasn't doing much cooking
back then, but I remember Mom was not exactly ecstatic while the actual
gutting and the subsequent re-fitting was going on, as she didn't have
the use of her stove for a day or two, or her sink - because he put in
a new double-sink while he was about it... But she was absolutely
thrilled with it when it was finished. He even put in what she called
a 'breakfast nook' - a built-in table with a padded bench along the
wall that could seat two or three people, and two chairs with matching
fabric on the other side of the table. We ate many a nice meal there,
once it was done. He also made and fitted all the cupboards she wanted
as per her own 'spec', so I would say it was very much worth it.
>
> I've got a different house now, and I want to do it again before we
> get too
> old.
>
> Cindy Hamilton

--
Cheers
Chatty Cathy

There is no such thing as a little garlic. ~A. Baer

Lou Decruss wrote:

> On Tue, 02 Sep 2008 16:01:40 -0500, Lou Decruss >
> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 02 Sep 2008 19:38:29 +0200, ChattyCathy
> wrote:
>>
>>>http://www.recfoodcooking.com
>>
>>I've done several for myself and several for others. All were fun but
>>I never had to hire someone else. I imagine working with a contractor
>>would change my opinion.

I think it depends on the contractor. Get a good one and you're smiling,
but get a not-so-good one and it can't be as much fun. However, being
able to do it all yourself must be very satisfying - I know Dad felt
good about it when he re-did our kitchen himself when I was child.

>>I did one years ago in a house built in
>>1911. That one was a blast because the kitchen was huge. About 2
>>years ago I did one in a Chicago brownstone built in the 1920's. That
>>one had to be brought down to brick it was so bad. I wish I could
>>find the pictures.
>
> I can't find the final product but I did find one after it was gutted
> and we started framing. This is about as far as a gut job can get and
> the kitchen turned out beautiful. It was fun and the rent doubled.
>
> http://i33.tinypic.com/21l3ij9.jpg
>
> Lou

Yep, I can believe it about the rent. To me (at least) the kitchen is
where I spend a huge amount of my time, so that's what I usually look
at first when viewing a house/apartment to buy or rent. I am fairly
happy with the kitchen I have now, but of course there are one or two
improvements I'd like to make...
--
Cheers
Chatty Cathy

There is no such thing as a little garlic. ~A. Baer

On Wed, 3 Sep 2008 11:46:01 +0200, "Giusi" >
wrote:


>They call it furniture, but the cabinets here are exactly like the cabinets
>there. There are lots of Italian cabinets sold and used in the US. It's
>just a different attitude about what is mobile and what is not.

Isn't that thinking where IKEA type stuff originated?

Lou

On Tue, 02 Sep 2008 19:38:29 +0200, ChattyCathy
> wrote:

>http://www.recfoodcooking.com

A minor remodel --- countertops, vinyl flooring, sink, appliances, and
paint the cabinets --- in the old house. Didn't take very long.

Major re-do in the current house. Clearly this place had not been
meant for cooks. An avocado-green cooktop and matching wall oven
(tiny) in a brick pillar that went from floor to ceiling. Hardly any
outlets. Cabinets were "custom" which meant they were constructed
like sh*t and looked that way. Imitation butcher-block laminate.

We gutted it.

Our kitchen now has two ranges, a tile-covered peninsula, plenty of
cabinet space and counter space, a rollabout island, a hood that vents
outside(!), and two microwaves. We COOK, by golly.

Best -- Terry