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On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 07:44:28 GMT, Orlando Enrique Fiol
> wrote:

>Yeah! Whose bright idea was it to build projects in areas where their
>inhabitants would have to afford cars just to get to work?


If the United States of America is such a MISERABLE place to live and
exist, why do so many want to live her. You make India sound
like Xanadu! By the way, it isn't.
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Billy said...

> On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 07:44:28 GMT, Orlando Enrique Fiol
> > wrote:
>
>>Yeah! Whose bright idea was it to build projects in areas where their
>>inhabitants would have to afford cars just to get to work?

>
> If the United States of America is such a MISERABLE place to live and
> exist, why do so many want to live her. You make India sound
> like Xanadu! By the way, it isn't.



India's gotta learn to eat more of those cows. Not just wait for them to die
of exhausting worship!

Andy
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"Andy" <q> wrote in message
>
>
> India's gotta learn to eat more of those cows. Not just wait for them to
> die
> of exhausting worship!
>
> Andy


Watched a show about India a while back. If you own a couple of cows, you
are in good fiscal shape. They provide milk, they provide fuel and building
material in the form of dung. They make rather good use of the available
resources.


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Edwin Pawlowski said...

>
> "Andy" <q> wrote in message
>>
>>
>> India's gotta learn to eat more of those cows. Not just wait for them
>> to die
>> of exhausting worship!
>>
>> Andy

>
> Watched a show about India a while back. If you own a couple of cows,
> you are in good fiscal shape. They provide milk, they provide fuel and
> building material in the form of dung. They make rather good use of the
> available resources.



Edwin,

Yes, I think I saw the same program on TV recently (History Channel). Dung
for fire, housing. A multitude of uses!

I've had Indian food once, by a friend's lunch invitation and it was
severely deep fried. Probably just my unlucky day or his bad taste in
Indian restaurants. Buffet style.

Andy



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I did find the cow shitting on a newlywed couple's living room floor and rug
NOT a good omen!

But it is, apparently.

Andy
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Billy wrote:

> On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 07:44:28 GMT, Orlando Enrique Fiol
> > wrote:
>
> >Yeah! Whose bright idea was it to build projects in areas where their
> >inhabitants would have to afford cars just to get to work?

>
> If the United States of America is such a MISERABLE place to live and
> exist, why do so many want to live her. You make India sound
> like Xanadu! By the way, it isn't.


He didn't make India sound like Xanadu. He merely questioned the
construction of housing projects in places that made it difficult for
people to get to work and pointed ot that in India slums are near
factories so that people can get to work.


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On Jul 26, 12:44 am, Orlando Enrique Fiol > wrote:
> wrote:
> >While those two women are shockingly fat, they are an expression of
> >everything currently worrying the US. They are not educated for the current
> >work situation, they probably eat too much trashy food and don't know any
> >better, their entertainment is passive, they are not served by public
> >transport in spite of living in the projects-- whose great idea would that
> >have been?-- and most of all everything is someone else's fault.

>
> Yeah! Whose bright idea was it to build projects in areas where their
> inhabitants would have to afford cars just to get to work? In India,
> slums are often erected near factories and even affluent neighborhoods
> to facilitate worker proximity to jobs. We tend not to plan ahead when
> it comes to common sense. The less we pay our workers, the worse they'll
> eat, the more they'll seek mind numbing entertainment as escapes, the
> more they'll take out their frustrations on each other and on society at
> large through random acts of violence, and the more of a medical burden
> on the State they will become. Saving a few bucks in salaries, insurance
> and taxes isn't worth all these social ills.
>
> Orlando



Not too long ago, I read an article that talked about government (or
city) of India doing city planning involving relocating the poor
workers away from the well-to-do neighborhood. The poor people knew
that it would be too far for them to commute. Since they do not get
their menial jobs offer ahead, it would be a hardship for them. I
hope Asian countries do not start modeling western nations in their
city planning. I like the way the poor live not far from the
rich. It even makes it easier to give them left over food instead
pf throwing away.
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On Jul 26, 3:54 am, Billy <Hereiam@hotmaildotcom> wrote:
> On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 07:44:28 GMT, Orlando Enrique Fiol
>
> > wrote:
> >Yeah! Whose bright idea was it to build projects in areas where their
> >inhabitants would have to afford cars just to get to work?

>
> If the United States of America is such a MISERABLE place to live and
> exist, why do so many want to live her. You make India sound
> like Xanadu! By the way, it isn't.


If you don't notice, more and more people are choosing not to come to
US and among those who do come, more nd more are hear to just work (in
IT) and go back. I recently met an Indian in his 40s, who worked in
Nigeria for 3 years (in IT) and then got sponsored by an IT
consulting firm (Indian firm of course) to come to US and working a
contract job with a state agency. His plan is to work and go back.
His wife and daughter are not here. This the new ways of life in this
global age these days. I feel like going all over the world myself
only if I do not have the kind of Rhinitis I have. Damn..
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On Jul 26, 5:00 am, "Edwin Pawlowski" > wrote:
> "Andy" <q> wrote in message
>
> > India's gotta learn to eat more of those cows. Not just wait for them to
> > die
> > of exhausting worship!

>
> > Andy

>
> Watched a show about India a while back. If you own a couple of cows, you
> are in good fiscal shape. They provide milk, they provide fuel and building
> material in the form of dung. They make rather good use of the available
> resources.


Isn't it interesting that only with industrial revolution (and
westerners leading in that arena), there has been so much wasteful
activities in the name of competitive business. India has too big a
population and so even with all the economic development, there will
always be poor people but that is nothing new in a country with a old
civilization. I bet there was a period in their ancients days where
no one starved. In fact, reading Indus valley civilization, there
were statement that there was no trace of warfare. May be there
wasn't big weapon back then until the gun powder was invented. Come
to think of it, the Chinese invented the gun powder but it was the
west who used it large scale. Not trying to attack western culture; ma
be the sneaky Chinese did not have the need to use it as they know how
to swallow all their neighbor some other ways. Having said that, I
hope people are aware that most Southeast Asians theses days have some
Chinese blood. But the, the ancestors of these SE Asains were driven
out to SE Asia by the Chinese anyway. I mean there were cousisns to
begin with. But then everyone in the whole world is related anyway.
http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/journey/


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On Jul 26, 5:55 am, Andy <q> wrote:
> I did find the cow shitting on a newlywed couple's living room floor and rug
> NOT a good omen!
>
> But it is, apparently.
>
> Andy


An Indian classmate of mine told me that Hindus were using the cow'
dung to bless their house by spreading on their floor way before they
found out that some chemicals in it was sanitizing the floor. He meant
that that chemical was killing some other more dangerous stuff
(probably referring to a very very old time).
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On Jul 26, 7:16 am, Dave Smith > wrote:
> Billy wrote:
> > On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 07:44:28 GMT, Orlando Enrique Fiol
> > > wrote:

>
> > >Yeah! Whose bright idea was it to build projects in areas where their
> > >inhabitants would have to afford cars just to get to work?

>
> > If the United States of America is such a MISERABLE place to live and
> > exist, why do so many want to live her. You make India sound
> > like Xanadu! By the way, it isn't.

>
> He didn't make India sound like Xanadu. He merely questioned the
> construction of housing projects in places that made it difficult for
> people to get to work and pointed ot that in India slums are near
> factories so that people can get to work.


Also, poor people live not far from the rich doing housecleaning
work.

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On Jul 26, 3:44*am, Orlando Enrique Fiol > wrote:
> wrote:
> >While those two women are shockingly fat, they are an expression of
> >everything currently worrying the US. *They are not educated for the current
> >work situation, they probably eat too much trashy food and don't know any
> >better, their entertainment is passive, they are not served by public
> >transport in spite of living in the projects-- whose great idea would that
> >have been?-- and most of all everything is someone else's fault.

>
> Yeah! Whose bright idea was it to build projects in areas where their
> inhabitants would have to afford cars just to get to work?


Middle-class urban planners who all drive to work? And who probably
cannot conceive of not having a car? Much planning, whether it be
North American, Australian or ,to a somewhat lesser extent, European
is predicated on people travelling by personal automobile.

If you followed any of the post-Hurricane Whosit ( New Orleans)
housing fiascos, places for displaced and usually poor refugees were
all in the boondocks.

John Kane Kingston ON Canada

John Kane Kingston ON Canada

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amandaF said...

> On Jul 26, 5:00 am, "Edwin Pawlowski" > wrote:
>> "Andy" <q> wrote in message
>>
>> > India's gotta learn to eat more of those cows. Not just wait for them
>> > to die
>> > of exhausting worship!

>>
>> > Andy

>>
>> Watched a show about India a while back. If you own a couple of cows,
>> you are in good fiscal shape. They provide milk, they provide fuel and
>> building material in the form of dung. They make rather good use of
>> the available resources.

>
> Isn't it interesting that only with industrial revolution (and
> westerners leading in that arena), there has been so much wasteful
> activities in the name of competitive business. India has too big a
> population and so even with all the economic development, there will
> always be poor people but that is nothing new in a country with a old
> civilization. I bet there was a period in their ancients days where
> no one starved. In fact, reading Indus valley civilization, there
> were statement that there was no trace of warfare. May be there
> wasn't big weapon back then until the gun powder was invented. Come
> to think of it, the Chinese invented the gun powder but it was the
> west who used it large scale. Not trying to attack western culture; ma
> be the sneaky Chinese did not have the need to use it as they know how
> to swallow all their neighbor some other ways. Having said that, I
> hope people are aware that most Southeast Asians theses days have some
> Chinese blood. But the, the ancestors of these SE Asains were driven
> out to SE Asia by the Chinese anyway. I mean there were cousisns to
> begin with. But then everyone in the whole world is related anyway.
> http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/journey/



amandaF,

Points taken, thanks!

By the same token, how many people were taught to associate the abacus with
the Chinese, when in fact, it was the Greeks that invented it?

Best,

Andy
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On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 06:54:33 -0400, Billy <Hereiam@hotmaildotcom>
wrote:

>On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 07:44:28 GMT, Orlando Enrique Fiol
> wrote:
>
>>Yeah! Whose bright idea was it to build projects in areas where their
>>inhabitants would have to afford cars just to get to work?

>
>If the United States of America is such a MISERABLE place to live and
>exist, why do so many want to live her. You make India sound
>like Xanadu! By the way, it isn't.


maybe he thinks it could be better, billy.

your pal,
blake
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **


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Hereiam@hotmaildotcom wrote:
>If the United States of America is such a MISERABLE place to live and
>exist, why do so many want to live here?


Can't you do better than this tired argument? People want to live here
primarily because a little chance of something is better than a whole
lot of nothing in their native countries. People also have very little
sense of the harsh realities of American life when they come here with
stars in their eyes. They think they'll automatically find good jobs and
affordable places to live, save up for a car, eat well and afford
medical care. Most people can't accomplish those things in our low wage
work force.

>You make India sound like Xanadu! By the way, it isn't.


I spent ten months there studying music, so I think I know a little
something about what life is like in a few Indian cities where I stayed.
I never said it was a paradise; I just presented one of India's urban
planning strategies aimed at keeping the poor close to workplaces.

Orlando
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Orlando Enrique Fiol wrote:

> The other side of that reality, at least in most American cities, is
> that the poor often turn to crime when constantly bombarded with
> pressure to possess and consume without being given many legal
> opportunities to earn enough through work to make that possible.
> Raised to think they have no value if they don't have fancy bling
> bling, many become impatient with their lot and eventually resort to
> simply stealing or even killing for what they can't afford.


What a sad lot in life, indeed.

nancy
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Andy <q> wrote:
>Yes, I think I saw the same program on TV recently (History Channel). Dung
>for fire, housing. A multitude of uses!


I had roasted vegetables cooked over a dung fire and they didn't taste
anything like excrement as I'd feared.

>I've had Indian food once, by a friend's lunch invitation and it was
>severely deep fried. Probably just my unlucky day or his bad taste in
>Indian restaurants. Buffet style.


Most Indian food is actually not deep fried; puri, pakora, samosa and
paratha come to mind as deep fried delicacies. But, many Indians don't
like them and associate them with street snacks.

Orlando
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Orlando Enrique Fiol said...

> Andy <q> wrote:
>>Yes, I think I saw the same program on TV recently (History Channel).

Dung
>>for fire, housing. A multitude of uses!

>
> I had roasted vegetables cooked over a dung fire and they didn't taste
> anything like excrement as I'd feared.
>
>>I've had Indian food once, by a friend's lunch invitation and it was
>>severely deep fried. Probably just my unlucky day or his bad taste in
>>Indian restaurants. Buffet style.

>
> Most Indian food is actually not deep fried; puri, pakora, samosa and
> paratha come to mind as deep fried delicacies. But, many Indians don't
> like them and associate them with street snacks.
>
> Orlando



Orlando,

I was disappointed but hey, I was in center city Philadelphia, PA.

Pick your cuisine!

Best,

Andy


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Andy <q> wrote:
>I was disappointed but hey, I was in center city Philadelphia, PA.


Not quite the same as India; I should know, I live here and lived there.

>Pick your cuisine!


I think you would love Mughlai Indian cooking; it's very aromatic and
rich, rarely fried and centered around meat. But, most Indian
restaurants in this country are Panjaabi or Bangladeshi owned and thus
have no clue about Mughlai cooking. However, nothing beats Bengali
chicken with hard boiled egg. If anyone can scrounge up a recipe for me,
I'd be much obliged; Internet searches have thus far yielded nothing.

Orlando
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"Billy" <Hereiam@hotmaildotcom> wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 07:44:28 GMT, Orlando Enrique Fiol
> > wrote:
>
>>Yeah! Whose bright idea was it to build projects in areas where their
>>inhabitants would have to afford cars just to get to work?

>
> If the United States of America is such a MISERABLE place to live and
> exist, why do so many want to live her. You make India sound
> like Xanadu! By the way, it isn't.


That argument is ridiculous, and doesn't even fit this particular
discussion. The United States has plenty of problems and if you don't see
that, you are either willfully ignorant or just plain blind. Either way, you
are a part of the problem. Prentending everything is hunky-dory when it
isn't is not just denial, it's dangerous. It is EXACTLY that mindset that
has allowed the government to wreak havoc on this country, our liberties,
and our lives. Loving my country does not mean I have to live in a fog where
I pretend it's all rainbows and sunshine. And it does not mean I have to
love my government...in fact, I am allowed to dislike them and state so
freely by virtue of living here. Many people fought and died so we would
have that right, so why would you be so willing to toss it away?

Standing by complacent and idle while corrupt officials destroy what this
country was founded on certainly doesn't make you a patriot.

kimberly


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On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 14:23:27 -0700, "Nexis" > wrote:

>Standing by complacent and idle while corrupt officials destroy what this
>country was founded on certainly doesn't make you a patriot.



I am positive that you have a well thought out plan. I wish you the
best on the execution.

Now I am trying to imagine how your arguement became so disjointed
from the original subject line.




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"Nexis" wrote:
> "Billy" <Hereiam@hotmaildotcom> wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 07:44:28 GMT, Orlando Enrique Fiol
> > > wrote:

>
> >>Yeah! Whose bright idea was it to build projects in areas where their
> >>inhabitants would have to afford cars just to get to work?

>
> > If the United States of America is such a MISERABLE place to live and
> > exist, why do so many want to live her. ďż˝ ďż˝ ďż˝ You make India sound
> > like Xanadu! ďż˝ ďż˝ By the way, it isn't.

>
> That argument is ridiculous, and doesn't even fit this particular
> discussion. The United States has plenty of problems and if you don't see
> that, you are either willfully ignorant or just plain blind. Either way, you
> are a part of the problem. Prentending everything is hunky-dory when it
> isn't is not just denial, it's dangerous. It is EXACTLY that mindset that
> has allowed the government to wreak havoc on this country, our liberties,
> and our lives. Loving my country does not mean I have to live in a fog where
> I pretend it's all rainbows and sunshine. And it does not mean I have to
> love my government...in fact, I am allowed to dislike them and state so
> freely by virtue of living here. Many people fought and died so we would
> have that right, so why would you be so willing to toss it away?
>
> Standing by complacent and idle while corrupt officials destroy what this
> country was founded on certainly doesn't make you a patriot.
>
> kimberly


He's not saying the US is perfect, there is no perfect. All he's
saying is that of all the places available more people who are
escaping oppression choose the US first, in fact since its inception
they always have... the oppressed fleeing to America is hardly a
recent phenomena.

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Orlando Enrique Fiol said...

> Andy <q> wrote:
>>I was disappointed but hey, I was in center city Philadelphia, PA.

>
> Not quite the same as India; I should know, I live here and lived there.
>
>>Pick your cuisine!

>
> I think you would love Mughlai Indian cooking; it's very aromatic and
> rich, rarely fried and centered around meat. But, most Indian
> restaurants in this country are Panjaabi or Bangladeshi owned and thus
> have no clue about Mughlai cooking. However, nothing beats Bengali
> chicken with hard boiled egg. If anyone can scrounge up a recipe for me,
> I'd be much obliged; Internet searches have thus far yielded nothing.
>
> Orlando



Orlando,

Someday I will try again.

Thanks for the background info!

Best,

Andy


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Andy wrote:
> Orlando Enrique Fiol said...
>
>> Andy <q> wrote:
>>> I was disappointed but hey, I was in center city Philadelphia, PA.

>> Not quite the same as India; I should know, I live here and lived there.
>>
>>> Pick your cuisine!

>> I think you would love Mughlai Indian cooking; it's very aromatic and
>> rich, rarely fried and centered around meat. But, most Indian
>> restaurants in this country are Panjaabi or Bangladeshi owned and thus
>> have no clue about Mughlai cooking. However, nothing beats Bengali
>> chicken with hard boiled egg. If anyone can scrounge up a recipe for me,
>> I'd be much obliged; Internet searches have thus far yielded nothing.
>>
>> Orlando

>
>
> Orlando,
>
> Someday I will try again.
>
> Thanks for the background info!
>
> Best,
>
> Andy


Andy, there are some great Mughlai Indian places in University City.
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"Billy" <Hereiam@hotmaildotcom> wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 14:23:27 -0700, "Nexis" > wrote:
>
>>Standing by complacent and idle while corrupt officials destroy what this
>>country was founded on certainly doesn't make you a patriot.

>
>
> I am positive that you have a well thought out plan. I wish you the
> best on the execution.
>
> Now I am trying to imagine how your arguement became so disjointed
> from the original subject line.


My "argument" as you put it, has nothing whatsoever to do with the subject
line and everything to do with the post I responded to. Perhaps reading
would benefit your imagination.

kimberly


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"Sheldon" > wrote in message
...
"Nexis" wrote:
> "Billy" <Hereiam@hotmaildotcom> wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 07:44:28 GMT, Orlando Enrique Fiol
> > > wrote:

>
> >>Yeah! Whose bright idea was it to build projects in areas where their
> >>inhabitants would have to afford cars just to get to work?

>
>> > If the United States of America is such a MISERABLE place to live and
>> > exist, why do so many want to live her. ? ? ? You make India sound
>> > like Xanadu! ? ? By the way, it isn't.

>>
>> That argument is ridiculous, and doesn't even fit this particular
>> discussion. The United States has plenty of problems and if you don't see
>> that, you are either willfully ignorant or just plain blind. Either way,
>> you
>> are a part of the problem. Prentending everything is hunky-dory when it
>> isn't is not just denial, it's dangerous. It is EXACTLY that mindset that
>> has allowed the government to wreak havoc on this country, our liberties,
>> and our lives. Loving my country does not mean I have to live in a fog
>> where
>> I pretend it's all rainbows and sunshine. And it does not mean I have to
>> love my government...in fact, I am allowed to dislike them and state so
>> freely by virtue of living here. Many people fought and died so we would
>> have that right, so why would you be so willing to toss it away?
>>
>> Standing by complacent and idle while corrupt officials destroy what this
> >country was founded on certainly doesn't make you a patriot.
>>
>> kimberly


>He's not saying the US is perfect, there is no perfect. All he's
>saying is that of all the places available more people who are
>escaping oppression choose the US first, in fact since its inception
>they always have... the oppressed fleeing to America is hardly a
>recent phenomena.


And the person he responded to with the sarcastic comments was not saying
that the US was miserable, which was my point. The argument "Oh if it's so
MISERABLE, why do you want to live here?" is tired and old and ridiculous.
Recognizing the reality of something is not the same as saying it is
miserable.

kimberly


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George said...

> Andy wrote:
>> Orlando Enrique Fiol said...
>>
>>> Andy <q> wrote:
>>>> I was disappointed but hey, I was in center city Philadelphia, PA.
>>> Not quite the same as India; I should know, I live here and lived

there.
>>>
>>>> Pick your cuisine!
>>> I think you would love Mughlai Indian cooking; it's very aromatic and
>>> rich, rarely fried and centered around meat. But, most Indian
>>> restaurants in this country are Panjaabi or Bangladeshi owned and thus
>>> have no clue about Mughlai cooking. However, nothing beats Bengali
>>> chicken with hard boiled egg. If anyone can scrounge up a recipe for

me,
>>> I'd be much obliged; Internet searches have thus far yielded nothing.
>>>
>>> Orlando

>>
>>
>> Orlando,
>>
>> Someday I will try again.
>>
>> Thanks for the background info!
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Andy

>
> Andy, there are some great Mughlai Indian places in University City.



George,

Well, that may be so, and it's a train stop off the R3, but you're going to
throw an old man into the lion's den of college females?

Maybe on the weekends, during homework!?!

Best,

Andy
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sf wrote:
>We don't have a caste system. Everyone has a chance
>to succeed here.


Some people have far larger chances than others. The child of an ivy
league alumnus has an almost guaranteed chance of admittance into such a
university as a "legacy" student, while a poor minority will have to
find an ethnically or racially based scholarship. Community college
education is often remedial and inferior. Some people live closer to
places of employment, while others need cars because they live too far
away, yet can't afford their own vehicles. No, not everyone has the same
chances, and some people get next to no chances.

>Honestly, I think those days are over in the united states (let's just
>keep this to legal citizens and not kitchen sink it). IMO: There is
>no more crime due to lack of choices. In my city, we have too many
>social outreach programs for that excuse to hold water anymore.
>People turn to crime because of their poor choices rather than through
>necessity.


No one needs to commit crimes when they can obtain what they need to
live from charitable organization. Crime is considered a psychological
necessity by people who believe they have no other alternatives. Such
people are trapped in a number of illusions, chief of which is the idea
that material possessions will make them happy. Most people don't get
arrested for mugging folks while loading groceries into their cars.

>If they chose not to be educated, they put themselves on a
>slippery slope.


The public education system does not serve every student equally. More
affluent schools can afford books for every student, have computers,
electives, tutoring services and smaller classes where vital learning
deficiencies can be addressed. Your argument is predictably simplistic:
"It's all these people's fault for making the wrong choices." The
implication is that if people make wrong choices, screw them; let them
suffer! What if our parents or God treated us that way each time we
"sinned," misbehaved or were unkind toward our fellows? Of course,
people can make wrong choices and should be allowed to feel the
consequences of those poor decisions. But, your argument assumes every
poor choice is equally informed. If I can see that a burner on my stove
is turned on and I throw my hand right on top of the flame, I can't
blame anyone for getting burned. But, if I inadvertently sit on wet
paint because I can't see the sign and don't feel the paint until it's
too late, who would blame me for making that mistake? This culture does
not prepare our young people to face real life; it prepares them to play
video games, watch unrealistic movies and act out the thug life in
hiphop jams. At least, that's what lower class kids learn to do. Upper
classes get college prep courses and career coaches before they can even
walk. They get supplemental and extracurricular ballet, marshal arts,
piano, tennis, debating and other enriching activities. When they seem
to suffer from eating disorders, no one blames them for choosing to
starve themselves or vomit whatever they eat; they're taken to
psychologists and family therapists. When all else fails, troubled rich
kids are sent to pseudo boot camps where they get their spoiled
tendencies beaten out of them by sadistic neo-military thugeroos who've
never had to be tender toward anyone. What do the poor get when mom's
too busy for affection, dad has been absent for years and elder siblings
are busy living their own lives? Not much of much.

>If they chose to join a gang, chances are high that
>they'll also do drugs and commit crimes.


Why are they joining gangs in the first place? Because they need a sense
of love and belonging; they need acceptance and praise for what they do
well. Do they get praise from their teachers who won't even look them in
their eyes or address them by name? Do they get acceptance from
neighborhood people who walk the other way when they see them on the
street?

>The people I'm talking about
>don't see a future, they live in the moment. Drugs and thugs have
>been glamorized, so they feel no shame. It's cultural and
>generational now.


Why not say it's racial too? Your entire argument has been moving in
that direction anyway. Of course, it's cultural and generational; people
do what they see others around them doing, especially if it helps them
get what they value.

>
>Conversely, there are lots of honest people who are poor and
>uneducated, who live in high crime, high poverty areas, but they also
>see a future. In many cases, they are sacrificing their "now" to make
>their children's future better.
>
>
>


Those are the people who need to be glamorized and held up as being
worthy of maximum respect. Our culture doesn't mind packaging gangster
entertainment and violent movies as long as the consequences of that
entertainment are confined to bad neighborhoods. As long as movie
producers can laugh to the bank, as long as hiphop producers can watch
their artists soar up the charts, as long as drug dealers can continue
killing people while getting rich, nothing will change. The key is to
break the system that makes exploitation of the poor, young and naive
permissible. Stop buying that gangsta thuggeroo bullshit! Stop buying
those hiphop records that degrade women. Stop buying that fast food and
liquor, even if you don't yet know what to buy in their places. Stop
watching TV even if you're bored until you find enriching alternatives.
The poor might not be able to afford much, but they can turn off their
televisions, opt not to buy junky music and crappy food. They can
organize neighborhood watch groups so that their kids can play outside
without being accosted by gangsters and drug dealers. They can barter
services for some of what they need. That's what the poor can do. But,
our job is much more challenging. We need to stop putting the poor in
cages, projects and mental boxes, and actually befriend them. When's the
last time someone like you actually had a poor person over for dinner or
went to their house and ate what they cook? When's the last time one of
you let your kids invite a poor child over for an honestly social and
non-charitive sleepover? When's the last time we offered one of those
stereotypical fat ladies help with anything, the kind of help where we'd
actually give of our time in building personal relationships rather than
writing checks? The more we emphasize the differences between us and the
poor, the wider the chasm between us grows. Chasms are not narrowed by
blaming, finger pointing or legislation; they're narrowed and
transformed through love and understanding. That's right, love and
understanding. Love and understanding might mean listening to their
music and eating their food. Love and understanding might mean letting
one of your teenagers go out on a date with someone from the "wrong side
of the tracks". Love and understanding might mean picking up a poor
friend at home before going grocery shopping or helping another to the
emergency room. Love and understanding might entail ripping a gun out of
a drunk man's hands before he kills his woman and child in a domestic
brawl. Love and understanding might mean sheltering a battered woman
while she leaves her abuser and gets back on her feet. How many of us
have done these things before pointing fingers? Before we assert that
love and kindness don't work, how many of us have genuinely tried it?

Orlando
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Andy <q> wrote:
>One of these days, I'll get the real deal!
>You'd be a perfect escort! Thanks!


Better yet, come over for dinner. I'll cook some real Indian food for
you. If you prefer, nothing will be fried and you'll definitely have a
party in your mouth.

Orlando
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Orlando Enrique Fiol said...

> Andy <q> wrote:
>>One of these days, I'll get the real deal!
>>You'd be a perfect escort! Thanks!

>
> Better yet, come over for dinner. I'll cook some real Indian food for
> you. If you prefer, nothing will be fried and you'll definitely have a
> party in your mouth.
>
> Orlando



Orlando,

That's one hell of an offer! Can I bring company?

Thanks!

Best,

Andy
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Andy <q> wrote:
>That's one hell of an offer! Can I bring company?


Of course. Will she be cute? *grin*

Orlando


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Michael "Dog3" said...

> Orlando Enrique Fiol > news:MPG.22f5ac8f12ed74409896c6
> @news.verizon.net: in rec.food.cooking
>
>> Andy <q> wrote:
>>>One of these days, I'll get the real deal!
>>>You'd be a perfect escort! Thanks!

>>
>> Better yet, come over for dinner. I'll cook some real Indian food for
>> you. If you prefer, nothing will be fried and you'll definitely have a
>> party in your mouth.

>
> Wander on over to St. Louis. I'll fix you up with ravioli
>
> Michael



Michael,

Raviolii?!?

Another generous offer!

Calling around the family!!!

How many days?!?

Best,

Andy & family!

Oops

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"Andy" <q> wrote in message ...
> Billy said...
>
>> On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 07:44:28 GMT, Orlando Enrique Fiol
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>Yeah! Whose bright idea was it to build projects in areas where their
>>>inhabitants would have to afford cars just to get to work?

>>
>> If the United States of America is such a MISERABLE place to live and
>> exist, why do so many want to live her. You make India sound
>> like Xanadu! By the way, it isn't.

>
>
> India's gotta learn to eat more of those cows. Not just wait for them to
> die
> of exhausting worship!
>
> Andy



LOL...I say, 'Let 'em eat cake'....

Bigbazza (Barry) Oz

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"Nexis" > ha scritto nel messaggio
...
>
> "Billy" <Hereiam@hotmaildotcom> wrote in message at argument is
> ridiculous, and doesn't even fit this particular discussion. The United
> States has plenty of problems and if you don't see that, you are either
> willfully ignorant or just plain blind. Either way, you are a part of the
> problem. Prentending everything is hunky-dory when it isn't is not just
> denial, it's dangerous. It is EXACTLY that mindset that has allowed the
> government to wreak havoc on this country, our liberties, and our lives.
> Loving my country does not mean I have to live in a fog where I pretend
> it's all rainbows and sunshine. And it does not mean I have to love my
> government...in fact, I am allowed to dislike them and state so freely by
> virtue of living here. Many people fought and died so we would have that
> right, so why would you be so willing to toss it away?
>
> Standing by complacent and idle while corrupt officials destroy what this
> country was founded on certainly doesn't make you a patriot.
>
> kimberly


I am aware of two different and dangerous attitudes. Criticize even
obliquely the USA and some will pop up and say something about people dying
to get in. They blame social ills on laziness or criminality, as if people
are born like that. They will focus on what they can see-- she's fat she
must be a lazy welfare whore.
Instead of seeing that if these things are happening and worsening there
must be something wrong with the society and intelligent people should think
about what one could do about that, they merely suggest jettisoning the
problem person.
A very large number of Americans will not admit anything is wrong, and yet
life in America had deteriorated severely in recent years.
In another country I know well, when things like this are pointed out, the
citizens will admit that that's terrible, it's been a problem for decades or
even centuries and is just disgraceful! And then do nothing about it.

Net result seems equal and it's just taking longer to ruin here than there.


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"Sheldon" > ha scritto nel messaggio news:a6002e55-c7af-

He's not saying the US is perfect, there is no perfect. All he's
saying is that of all the places available more people who are
escaping oppression choose the US first, in fact since its inception
they always have... the oppressed fleeing to America is hardly a
recent phenomena.

_____________________________

If you all read something other than the local rag and Time or Newsweek
you'd know that all of Mediterranean Europe is being inundated with illegal
aliens. Services are being stretched to breaking point. Ships sink within
eyesight of Italian and Spanish shores as they struggle to get to a place
where they can make a few bucks to send home. They are being charged about
?1500 to get on a boat full of holes and drown. Most would like to get
farther north and are on coastal shores because that's as far as their money
goes. Germany is packed, France is packed, Italy is packed and Spain is
too. Steerage to America is a long time ago.
I have not heard anyone speak of America as a bastion of freedom for
decades. They want food and money. Free to die they can remain at home.


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Bigbazza said...

>
> "Andy" <q> wrote in message ...
>> Billy said...
>>
>>> On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 07:44:28 GMT, Orlando Enrique Fiol
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>>Yeah! Whose bright idea was it to build projects in areas where their
>>>>inhabitants would have to afford cars just to get to work?
>>>
>>> If the United States of America is such a MISERABLE place to live and
>>> exist, why do so many want to live her. You make India sound
>>> like Xanadu! By the way, it isn't.

>>
>>
>> India's gotta learn to eat more of those cows. Not just wait for them to
>> die
>> of exhausting worship!
>>
>> Andy

>
>
> LOL...I say, 'Let 'em eat cake'....
>
> Bigbazza (Barry) Oz



Can they?

LOL!

Andy
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