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Old 10-12-2007, 07:03 PM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default onions and coumadin

my father was recently put on coumadin, for which i understand the
generic is warfarin, a blood thinner or anti-coagulant (and yes, i
know, a major ingredient in some rat poisons). there were some food
restrictions (leafy green vegetables, etc.), due to large amounts of
vitamin k, which apparently reduces the effect. those didn't bother
him, but 'no onions' is chafing his knickers. (paradoxically, onions
themselves seem to have an anticoagulant effect.)

apparently, cooked onions are less bad, i presume because cooking
destroys some of the viatmin k.

anyhow, i told him i would put the question here to you all, since
there seems to be much group experience in food allergies and medicine
interactions, to see what you all thought, and ideas for
substitutions, etc. so, any insights, wisdom, or warnings not to seek
medical advice on the 'net? my dad's a pretty good cook, if that
helps.

(some years ago, i had a girlfriend who was allergic to onions, but i
don't know that i acquired any cooking knowledge, other than i didn't
make chili, and one side of the cutting board was non-onion. i did
finally come up with a meat loaf.)

your pal,
blake





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Old 10-12-2007, 07:06 PM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default onions and coumadin

blake wrote on Mon, 10 Dec 2007 19:03:07 GMT:

bm apparently, cooked onions are less bad, i presume because
bm cooking destroys some of the viatmin k.

bm anyhow, i told him i would put the question here to you
bm all, since there seems to be much group experience in food
bm allergies and medicine interactions, to see what you all
bm thought, and ideas for substitutions, etc. so, any
bm insights, wisdom, or warnings not to seek medical advice on
bm the 'net? my dad's a pretty good cook, if that helps.

bm (some years ago, i had a girlfriend who was allergic to
bm onions, but i don't know that i acquired any cooking
bm knowledge, other than i didn't make chili, and one side of
bm the cutting board was non-onion. i did finally come up
bm with a meat loaf.)

I have been taking the damned rat poison for about a year and
have achieved the desired level of stability. I have only been
warned to limit my intake (not give up) of green vegetables.

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

E-mail, with obvious alterations:
not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

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Old 10-12-2007, 07:56 PM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default onions and coumadin

blake murphy wrote:
my father was recently put on coumadin, for which i understand the
generic is warfarin, a blood thinner or anti-coagulant (and yes, i
know, a major ingredient in some rat poisons). there were some food
restrictions (leafy green vegetables, etc.), due to large amounts of
vitamin k, which apparently reduces the effect. those didn't bother
him, but 'no onions' is chafing his knickers. (paradoxically, onions
themselves seem to have an anticoagulant effect.)

apparently, cooked onions are less bad, i presume because cooking
destroys some of the viatmin k.

anyhow, i told him i would put the question here to you all, since
there seems to be much group experience in food allergies and medicine
interactions, to see what you all thought, and ideas for
substitutions, etc. so, any insights, wisdom, or warnings not to seek
medical advice on the 'net? my dad's a pretty good cook, if that
helps.


Hmmm.. believe it not I've never heard of the "No Onions" warning. I
used to council patients all the time about the Vit K aspect. In fact,
Vit K isn't as much a problem as long as the intake is *consistent*
rather than 3 pounds of greens eaten one day and none the next and so
on... A stable intake is tolerable as the monitoring labs will remain
stable and the dose not altered based on faulty lab results.
I'll have to look into this "no onions" idea.....
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Old 10-12-2007, 08:21 PM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default onions and coumadin

blake murphy wrote:

my father was recently put on coumadin, for which i understand the
generic is warfarin, a blood thinner or anti-coagulant (and yes, i
know, a major ingredient in some rat poisons). there were some food
restrictions (leafy green vegetables, etc.), due to large amounts of
vitamin k, which apparently reduces the effect. those didn't bother
him, but 'no onions' is chafing his knickers. (paradoxically, onions
themselves seem to have an anticoagulant effect.)

apparently, cooked onions are less bad, i presume because cooking
destroys some of the viatmin k.


This article specifically mentions fried and boiled
onions are to be avoided:

http://www.dietitian.com/vitamink.html

This article has a table which lists white and yellow
onions as low in K, but green onions as high in K.

http://www.drgourmet.com/warfarin/vegetables.shtml
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Old 10-12-2007, 08:50 PM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default onions and coumadin


"blake murphy" wrote in message
news
my father was recently put on coumadin, for which i understand the
generic is warfarin, a blood thinner or anti-coagulant (and yes, i
know, a major ingredient in some rat poisons). there were some food
restrictions (leafy green vegetables, etc.), due to large amounts of
vitamin k, which apparently reduces the effect. those didn't bother
him, but 'no onions' is chafing his knickers. (paradoxically, onions
themselves seem to have an anticoagulant effect.)

apparently, cooked onions are less bad, i presume because cooking
destroys some of the viatmin k.



Only from my own experience with dear f-i-l:

Onions are listed under foods that are low in vitamin K.
http://www.heartpoint.com/coumadin.html

My f-i-l has been taking coumadin for 15 years now. He has his blood tested
constantly. Everytime he sees a dentist even, he has his blood tested. He
has never been warned about eating onions. He has loads of doctors (top
notch mostly) and has been under dietary care for years now.

BTW, he loves onions.
Dee Dee


your pal,
blake





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Old 11-12-2007, 04:42 AM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default onions and coumadin

My neighbor (another good cook) has been on Coumadin for years and
I've never heard her talk about limiting onions.... so I'll ask her
about it when she returns from vacation.

sf
```````````````

On Mon, 10 Dec 2007 19:03:07 GMT, blake murphy
wrote:

my father was recently put on coumadin, for which i understand the
generic is warfarin, a blood thinner or anti-coagulant (and yes, i
know, a major ingredient in some rat poisons). there were some food
restrictions (leafy green vegetables, etc.), due to large amounts of
vitamin k, which apparently reduces the effect. those didn't bother
him, but 'no onions' is chafing his knickers. (paradoxically, onions
themselves seem to have an anticoagulant effect.)

apparently, cooked onions are less bad, i presume because cooking
destroys some of the viatmin k.

anyhow, i told him i would put the question here to you all, since
there seems to be much group experience in food allergies and medicine
interactions, to see what you all thought, and ideas for
substitutions, etc. so, any insights, wisdom, or warnings not to seek
medical advice on the 'net? my dad's a pretty good cook, if that
helps.



--
See return address to reply by email
remove the smiley face first
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Old 11-12-2007, 05:30 PM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default onions and coumadin



blake murphy wrote:

my father was recently put on coumadin, for which i understand the
generic is warfarin, a blood thinner or anti-coagulant (and yes, i
know, a major ingredient in some rat poisons). there were some food
restrictions (leafy green vegetables, etc.), due to large amounts of
vitamin k, which apparently reduces the effect. those didn't bother
him, but 'no onions' is chafing his knickers. (paradoxically, onions
themselves seem to have an anticoagulant effect.)

apparently, cooked onions are less bad, i presume because cooking
destroys some of the viatmin k.

anyhow, i told him i would put the question here to you all, since
there seems to be much group experience in food allergies and medicine
interactions, to see what you all thought, and ideas for
substitutions, etc. so, any insights, wisdom, or warnings not to seek
medical advice on the 'net? my dad's a pretty good cook, if that
helps.

(some years ago, i had a girlfriend who was allergic to onions, but i
don't know that i acquired any cooking knowledge, other than i didn't
make chili, and one side of the cutting board was non-onion. i did
finally come up with a meat loaf.)

your pal,
blake


Here is some information from a reliable source:

http://www.med.umich.edu/1libr/guides/coumad.htm

Coumadin/warfarin is meant to prevent clotting:

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/d...r/a682277.html

Vitamin K is needed for blood to clot:

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/e...cle/002407.htm

A balance must be kept between the two; your father will need to be
tested frequently to see how things are doing. Most major hospitals have
a coumadin/warfarin clinic for that purpose.

The key is not to OD on the 'forbidden' foods and eat them, if desired,
in a regular manner, rather than bingeing one day and nothing the next.

HTH
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Old 11-12-2007, 06:43 PM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default onions and coumadin

blake murphy wrote:
my father was recently put on coumadin, for which i understand the
generic is warfarin, a blood thinner or anti-coagulant (and yes, i
know, a major ingredient in some rat poisons). there were some food
restrictions (leafy green vegetables, etc.), due to large amounts of
vitamin k, which apparently reduces the effect. those didn't bother
him, but 'no onions' is chafing his knickers. (paradoxically, onions
themselves seem to have an anticoagulant effect.)

apparently, cooked onions are less bad, i presume because cooking
destroys some of the viatmin k.

anyhow, i told him i would put the question here to you all, since
there seems to be much group experience in food allergies and medicine
interactions, to see what you all thought, and ideas for
substitutions, etc. so, any insights, wisdom, or warnings not to seek
medical advice on the 'net? my dad's a pretty good cook, if that
helps.

(some years ago, i had a girlfriend who was allergic to onions, but i
don't know that i acquired any cooking knowledge, other than i didn't
make chili, and one side of the cutting board was non-onion. i did
finally come up with a meat loaf.)


You concern is appreciated, Blake. There is no need to avoid or restrict
any particular foods while taking Coumadin. Any of those foods can and
should be eaten. A steady diet of those foods is encouraged because of
their overall nutritive value. Bingeing on foods higher in Vitamin K
while taking Coumadin can temporarily impede its anticlotting
properties, but the effects of a steady dietary intake on Coumadin's
effect can easily be compensated for. The doctor will watch your
father's lab values (PT/INR) and adjust the Coumadin dosage as needed
according to lab results. Frequent dose adjustments for Coumadin are
common, even when someone has been on the medication for a long time.
Your father can help to keep his lab results stable by maintaining a
steady diet rather than an avoidance diet.
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Old 11-12-2007, 07:26 PM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default onions and coumadin

blake murphy wrote:
my father was recently put on coumadin, for which i understand the
generic is warfarin, a blood thinner or anti-coagulant (and yes, i
know, a major ingredient in some rat poisons). there were some food
restrictions (leafy green vegetables, etc.), due to large amounts of
vitamin k, which apparently reduces the effect. those didn't bother
him, but 'no onions' is chafing his knickers. (paradoxically, onions
themselves seem to have an anticoagulant effect.)

apparently, cooked onions are less bad, i presume because cooking
destroys some of the viatmin k.

anyhow, i told him i would put the question here to you all, since
there seems to be much group experience in food allergies and medicine
interactions, to see what you all thought, and ideas for
substitutions, etc. so, any insights, wisdom, or warnings not to seek
medical advice on the 'net? my dad's a pretty good cook, if that
helps.

(some years ago, i had a girlfriend who was allergic to onions, but i
don't know that i acquired any cooking knowledge, other than i didn't
make chili, and one side of the cutting board was non-onion. i did
finally come up with a meat loaf.)


Here's the USDA web site I use for all nutritional data. It will also
give vitamin K data. http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/

My DG is taking Warfarin, the genetic for Coumadin. Onions are not a
problem.

I am sure that Dad gets a blood test at least once per month to see how
his clotting factor is doing. According to DH's docs, one should not
increase the amount of vitamin K containing foods in their diet, but
decreasing them is not necessary. The doctor will read the blood test
and adjust the medicine accordingly.

Let him eat onions in the same quantities he was used to and let the doc
adjust the meds.



--
Janet Wilder
Bad spelling. Bad punctuation
Good Friends. Good Life
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Old 11-12-2007, 07:41 PM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default onions and coumadin

On Mon, 10 Dec 2007 14:56:48 -0500, Goomba38
wrote:

blake murphy wrote:
my father was recently put on coumadin, for which i understand the
generic is warfarin, a blood thinner or anti-coagulant (and yes, i
know, a major ingredient in some rat poisons). there were some food
restrictions (leafy green vegetables, etc.), due to large amounts of
vitamin k, which apparently reduces the effect. those didn't bother
him, but 'no onions' is chafing his knickers. (paradoxically, onions
themselves seem to have an anticoagulant effect.)

apparently, cooked onions are less bad, i presume because cooking
destroys some of the viatmin k.

anyhow, i told him i would put the question here to you all, since
there seems to be much group experience in food allergies and medicine
interactions, to see what you all thought, and ideas for
substitutions, etc. so, any insights, wisdom, or warnings not to seek
medical advice on the 'net? my dad's a pretty good cook, if that
helps.


Hmmm.. believe it not I've never heard of the "No Onions" warning. I
used to council patients all the time about the Vit K aspect. In fact,
Vit K isn't as much a problem as long as the intake is *consistent*
rather than 3 pounds of greens eaten one day and none the next and so
on... A stable intake is tolerable as the monitoring labs will remain
stable and the dose not altered based on faulty lab results.
I'll have to look into this "no onions" idea.....


o.k., i hadn't thought of the 'stable intake' idea, but it makes
sense.

thanks.

your pal,
blake


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Old 11-12-2007, 07:46 PM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default onions and coumadin

On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 10:30:48 -0700, Arri London
wrote:



blake murphy wrote:

my father was recently put on coumadin, for which i understand the
generic is warfarin, a blood thinner or anti-coagulant (and yes, i
know, a major ingredient in some rat poisons). there were some food
restrictions (leafy green vegetables, etc.), due to large amounts of
vitamin k, which apparently reduces the effect. those didn't bother
him, but 'no onions' is chafing his knickers. (paradoxically, onions
themselves seem to have an anticoagulant effect.)

apparently, cooked onions are less bad, i presume because cooking
destroys some of the viatmin k.

anyhow, i told him i would put the question here to you all, since
there seems to be much group experience in food allergies and medicine
interactions, to see what you all thought, and ideas for
substitutions, etc. so, any insights, wisdom, or warnings not to seek
medical advice on the 'net? my dad's a pretty good cook, if that
helps.

(some years ago, i had a girlfriend who was allergic to onions, but i
don't know that i acquired any cooking knowledge, other than i didn't
make chili, and one side of the cutting board was non-onion. i did
finally come up with a meat loaf.)

your pal,
blake


Here is some information from a reliable source:

http://www.med.umich.edu/1libr/guides/coumad.htm

Coumadin/warfarin is meant to prevent clotting:

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/d...r/a682277.html

Vitamin K is needed for blood to clot:

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/e...cle/002407.htm

A balance must be kept between the two; your father will need to be
tested frequently to see how things are doing. Most major hospitals have
a coumadin/warfarin clinic for that purpose.

The key is not to OD on the 'forbidden' foods and eat them, if desired,
in a regular manner, rather than bingeing one day and nothing the next.

HTH


i've bookmarked the first site, thanks.

he's in pretty regular contact with his doctors, so monitoring
shouldn't be a problem. the doc also told him no beer at lunch, so i
will pass that along also.

your pal,
blake

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Old 11-12-2007, 07:48 PM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default onions and coumadin

On Mon, 10 Dec 2007 19:03:07 GMT, blake murphy
wrote:

anyhow, i told him i would put the question here to you all, since
there seems to be much group experience in food allergies and medicine
interactions, to see what you all thought, and ideas for
substitutions, etc. so, any insights, wisdom, or warnings not to seek
medical advice on the 'net? my dad's a pretty good cook, if that
helps.


my thanks to all who responded.

your pal,
blake
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Old 11-12-2007, 07:50 PM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default onions and coumadin

On Mon, 10 Dec 2007 12:21:15 -0800, Mark Thorson
wrote:

blake murphy wrote:

my father was recently put on coumadin, for which i understand the
generic is warfarin, a blood thinner or anti-coagulant (and yes, i
know, a major ingredient in some rat poisons). there were some food
restrictions (leafy green vegetables, etc.), due to large amounts of
vitamin k, which apparently reduces the effect. those didn't bother
him, but 'no onions' is chafing his knickers. (paradoxically, onions
themselves seem to have an anticoagulant effect.)

apparently, cooked onions are less bad, i presume because cooking
destroys some of the viatmin k.


This article specifically mentions fried and boiled
onions are to be avoided:

http://www.dietitian.com/vitamink.html

This article has a table which lists white and yellow
onions as low in K, but green onions as high in K.

http://www.drgourmet.com/warfarin/vegetables.shtml


it's possible dad mistook 'green onions' for onions, but i don't think
so. but he does like them, too.

thanks.

your pal,
blake
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Old 12-12-2007, 12:02 AM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default onions and coumadin

blake murphy wrote:

Hmmm.. believe it not I've never heard of the "No Onions" warning. I
used to council patients all the time about the Vit K aspect. In fact,
Vit K isn't as much a problem as long as the intake is *consistent*
rather than 3 pounds of greens eaten one day and none the next and so
on... A stable intake is tolerable as the monitoring labs will remain
stable and the dose not altered based on faulty lab results.
I'll have to look into this "no onions" idea.....


o.k., i hadn't thought of the 'stable intake' idea, but it makes
sense.

thanks.

your pal,
blake


confused I thought I wrote to you about just that idea hours after you
first posted your question?? I wonder what happened to my post...?

The case of the missing replies... ?
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Old 12-12-2007, 02:51 AM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default onions and coumadin


"blake murphy" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 10 Dec 2007 14:56:48 -0500, Goomba38
wrote:

blake murphy wrote:
my father was recently put on coumadin, for which i understand the
generic is warfarin, a blood thinner or anti-coagulant (and yes, i
know, a major ingredient in some rat poisons). there were some food
restrictions (leafy green vegetables, etc.), due to large amounts of
vitamin k, which apparently reduces the effect. those didn't bother
him, but 'no onions' is chafing his knickers. (paradoxically, onions
themselves seem to have an anticoagulant effect.)

apparently, cooked onions are less bad, i presume because cooking
destroys some of the viatmin k.

anyhow, i told him i would put the question here to you all, since
there seems to be much group experience in food allergies and medicine
interactions, to see what you all thought, and ideas for
substitutions, etc. so, any insights, wisdom, or warnings not to seek
medical advice on the 'net? my dad's a pretty good cook, if that
helps.


Hmmm.. believe it not I've never heard of the "No Onions" warning. I
used to council patients all the time about the Vit K aspect. In fact,
Vit K isn't as much a problem as long as the intake is *consistent*
rather than 3 pounds of greens eaten one day and none the next and so
on... A stable intake is tolerable as the monitoring labs will remain
stable and the dose not altered based on faulty lab results.
I'll have to look into this "no onions" idea.....


o.k., i hadn't thought of the 'stable intake' idea, but it makes
sense.

thanks.

your pal,
blake

I'd sure agree about the stable intake. Then with your prothrombin times you
can find the best dose
of coumadin to match your "green" intake.
I can't find anything to suggest that onions are particularly high in
vitamin K.

Kent

BTW, coumadin, as you but not many others know, is the generic name for the
drug.
Warfarin is the old brand name. Warfarin stans for "Wisconsin Alumni
Research Foundation", which held
original copyright for the drug, where largely, it was developed. I'm an old
UW alumnus.





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