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On Thu, 22 Nov 2007 14:01:41 -0500, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>jmcquown wrote:
>
>>
>> He's in his 30's and he can't bring something himself?!

>
>He lives at home with his parents and spends all his money and time on
>computer games. There is not much more to say. He especially dislikes
>anything red.
>
>> That's a shame!
>> This woman is at least 60. She'll probably bring some Wonder Bread rolls
>> and have that and some turkey. It's not up to us to cater to anyone, be
>> they adults or children.

>
>
>I agree. I think the worst situation I ever ran into was a great niece who
>showed up at Boxing Day family Christmas gathering. I didn't know she was
>around. I didn't know that she was a vegan. Her father had planned to bring
>some vegan food with him but he forgot it at home. Plus they showed up at
>the last minute, so my wife was running around trying to find something
>that she could eat and she had to read all the ingredients. A year and a
>half later she was sitting across from me in a restaurant with a breakfast
>buffet and I was naturally curious about what she had found to eat at the
>buffet tables....... bacon, ham, roast beef.....
>


some years ago my boss, my boss was enlisted to make the cake for the
monthy birthday gizmo, and one of the women in the office asked that
he get his wife to use a particular mix that had no animal fat in it,
as she was a vegetarian. he's easy-going, and said sure.

a week later he sees the woman at her desk, chowing down on a chicken
leg. man, he was ****ed.

your pal,
blake
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On Thu, 22 Nov 2007 13:28:23 -0800, Serene >
wrote:

>Abe wrote:
>>> jmcquown wrote:
>>>> She's one of those people, if she doesn't know what it is it
>>>> must be terrible. If anyone mentioned sourdough she'd freak.
>>>> WHATEVER.
>>> I'd advise to steer clear of mental cases like her.

>> There's clearly something screwy in her upbringing that has affected
>> this way. I don't think she sees that she has a choice in the matter.
>> It's called a mental illness.

>
>Why would you blame a person's mental illness on her parents?
>
>Serene


gotta blame somebody!

your pal,
blake
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On Thu, 22 Nov 2007 21:00:10 -0500, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>Michael \"Dog3\" wrote:
>>
>> > Why not? That is what a lot of those mentally people do.

>>
>> Mental illness is a damned shame. My now deceased friend has a grandchild
>> with Schizophrenia. It is ugly. Very ugly and no one is to blame.

>
>
>It is a damned shame, and you never know when it is going to strike you, a
>family member or a friend. It can run a range, from mild down to a serious
>and debilitating depression, from zany moments to raving lunacy. It's hard
>for the rest of us to deal with because there it can be hard to deal with
>rationally. I don't know many people without some form of mental illness
>somewhere in the family.


very true. it's a shame that compassion isn't nearly as widespread.

yourpal,
blake
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On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 02:09:10 GMT, "Michael \"Dog3\""
> wrote:

>Dave Smith > dropped this
: in rec.food.cooking
>
>> It is a damned shame, and you never know when it is going to strike
>> you, a family member or a friend. It can run a range, from mild down
>> to a serious and debilitating depression, from zany moments to raving
>> lunacy. It's hard for the rest of us to deal with because there it can
>> be hard to deal with rationally. I don't know many people without some
>> form of mental illness somewhere in the family.

>
>I've often wondered what brings it on. I mean, is it genetics or
>something else? David (the schizophrenic) has complete bouts of sanity.
>Then he just loses it. Never will I forget the time I had to pick him up
>from Lambert here in St. Louis. Sarah, his grandmother, called me panic
>stricken. He just hopped a plane and wound up here in St. Louis. Could I
>help. Well,I was way out of my league but I did the best I could. I wound
>up calling security to *secure* him and then made arrangements to get him
>back to Atlanta. It was a total nightmare and I can only imagine what
>Sarah must have gone through all those years. David's father also does
>the best he can. I dunno... it has got to be hard.
>
>Michael


as far as i know, most of these things are dependent on brain
chemistry, so i guess you could blame genetics, but some are triggered
by allergic reactions, so you're back to environment.

probably you can attribute some forms of neuroses to upbringing, but
something like manic depression (i forget what they call it now) is
almost certainly brain chemistry, since talk therapy isn't going to
help and drugs do.

at least they've stopped blaming autism on the 'cold mother,' but now
some have leaped in the other direction and are now blaming vaccines.
mental illness has always been a field rife with quackery.

your pal,
blake
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On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 02:09:10 GMT, "Michael \"Dog3\""
> wrote:

>Dave Smith > dropped this
: in rec.food.cooking
>
>> It is a damned shame, and you never know when it is going to strike
>> you, a family member or a friend. It can run a range, from mild down
>> to a serious and debilitating depression, from zany moments to raving
>> lunacy. It's hard for the rest of us to deal with because there it can
>> be hard to deal with rationally. I don't know many people without some
>> form of mental illness somewhere in the family.

>
>I've often wondered what brings it on. I mean, is it genetics or
>something else? David (the schizophrenic) has complete bouts of sanity.
>Then he just loses it. Never will I forget the time I had to pick him up
>from Lambert here in St. Louis. Sarah, his grandmother, called me panic
>stricken. He just hopped a plane and wound up here in St. Louis. Could I
>help. Well,I was way out of my league but I did the best I could. I wound
>up calling security to *secure* him and then made arrangements to get him
>back to Atlanta. It was a total nightmare and I can only imagine what
>Sarah must have gone through all those years. David's father also does
>the best he can. I dunno... it has got to be hard.
>
>Michael


one thing about credit cards is that they vastly increase your scope
of operations when you're in a manic phase.

your pal,
blake


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Julia Altshuler wrote:
> jmcquown wrote:
>>
>> Okay, at what point in my original post did everyone miss the fact
>> that we
>> weren't "accomodating" her? She actually managed to get a very nice
>> plate
>> of food for herself, what with green beans (surprise! she actually eats
>> green beans!), dark meat turkey and a roll.

>
>
> Green beans. So she does eat vegetables.
>
>
> People are divided on this one so you'll be in trouble either way.
>
>
> I'm still curious about the sex thing. Why don't we ask her?
>
>
> --Lia
>



I hope she'd say it's none of our business....

gloria p
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On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 08:34:37 -0600, "jmcquown"
> wrote:

>Julia Altshuler wrote:
>> jmcquown wrote:
>>>
>>> Okay, at what point in my original post did everyone miss the fact
>>> that we weren't "accomodating" her? She actually managed to get a
>>> very nice plate of food for herself, what with green beans
>>> (surprise! she actually eats green beans!), dark meat turkey and a
>>> roll.

>>
>> Green beans. So she does eat vegetables.

>
>I was going by what my brother Scott told me.
>
>> People are divided on this one so you'll be in trouble either way. If
>> you buy 3 sorts of cheese and she'll eat none of them, you're in
>> trouble for not being kind to a guest. If you tell her she's welcome
>> to bring whatever sorts of rolls she likes, you're in trouble for
>> catering to a picky guest.
>>

>I was very nice to her. My brother, on the other hand, treated her
>horribly. He kept demanding she should surely like to eat mushrooms since
>she eats cream of mushroom soup. He kept quizzing her on why she wouldn't
>eat some cheese and crackers. Good lord, man, leave her alone!
>
>She was gracious. I'd have punched him in the mouth and walked out. I
>wanted to walk out well before dinner. He was so rude and so "superior".
>And her sex life has nothing to do with her being a picky eater.
>


jesus, jill, first you complain about the woman and now about your
brother. life is good, huh?

your pal,
blake
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On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 09:25:33 -0800, Dan Abel > wrote:

>In article >,
> Dave Smith > wrote:
>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> > A little passive aggressive, wouldn't you say, Jill? Would it have
>> > killed you to buy just one thing this woman will eat?
>> > Picky or not, it's quite obvious you have no respect for your brother
>> > or his companion.
>> > it's clear to me who the bitch in this scenario is. And it's not the
>> > picky eater.

>>
>>
>> Poppycock. Consider the alternatives. They could forgo all the things they
>> like for the sake of someone who picky and then everyone else suffers, or
>> they could have a confrontation over it.
>>
>> I know what it is like.

>
>I'm not sure I do. I'm a very picky eater myself. I have never starved
>to death. It's very seldom that I can't find enough food at somebody's
>place. I never whine, unless people try to convince me to eat things
>that I don't want. My daughter was a vegetarian for eight years, and a
>vegan for a short while. No whining. There was always food, she just
>didn't choose the ones with meat. My sister was a vegetarian for 13
>years. When we went to somebody's house, she would just ask in advance,
>and often volunteer to bring a vegetarian dish. Lots of people who eat
>meat, also like vegetarian dishes. I often do.
>
>If I don't like something, I just don't eat it. If somebody else
>doesn't like something, I expect the same consideration.


exactly. if either the picky people or the host make a fuss about it,
they're just rude. (why do so many people seem to think it's o.k. to
be rude when 'it's just family'?)

your pal,
blake
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"Strange Brew" > wrote in message
...
>
> "blake murphy" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Thu, 22 Nov 2007 09:49:21 -0600, "jmcquown"
>> > wrote:
>>
wrote:
>>>> On Nov 22, 12:22 am, "jmcquown" > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The only cheese she will eat is cheddar but ONLY mild cheddar.
>>>>> Gee, sorry, I bought sharp cheddar, pepper-jack and colby. That's
>>>>> too bad...
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> A little passive aggressive, wouldn't you say, Jill? Would it have
>>>> killed you to buy just one thing this woman will eat?
>>>
>>>How can I possibly know what she will eat? I did my shopping based on
>>>what
>>>my brothers and I like. I'm not catering to this woman; there's no
>>>reason
>>>anyone should. She can bring her own damn food if she's going to be so
>>>picky about everything.
>>>
>>>> Picky or not, it's quite obvious you have no respect for your brother
>>>> or his companion.
>>>
>>>You've got that right. Given the choice this brother and his companion
>>>wouldn't be there at all. I'll send them over to your place and let you
>>>deal with them!
>>>

>>
>> if i had to bet, i'd bet she won't complain half as much as you have
>> already.
>>

>
> BINGO!!!!!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


Jill just keeps getting smaller every year.


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"Julia Altshuler" > wrote in message
...
> Amarantha wrote:
>>
>> Or it could be neurobiological. Disorders on the autism spectrum, for
>> example, can cause severe food aversions in some.

>
>
> Interesting. Tell me more. Do autism disorders ever cause slight food
> aversions? Does it work in reverse? I'm thinking of adults I know who,
> while not as extreme as the woman Jill described, are pretty picky. Would
> it make sense to suspect an autism disorder in them?
>
>


This is interesting to me, too. My mother had "food issues," almost always
based upon consistency, and my sister's child is the same way.

She would not eat any type of dressing, including mayonnaise, so we
had to taste test her chicken salad and other dishes made with it. She
would not eat eggs of any kind but would eat toast dipped in an egg
over easy. She loved the flavor of onion and garlic, but not the consistency
so would only use onion and garlic salt.




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On Nov 22, 6:11 am, "jmcquown" > wrote:
> I'm sure she can do that for herself. She's about 60 years old and was
> going to bring some Wonder Bread type rolls. I'll pick up the sourdough on
> my way over


If she's made it to 60, she has found something to eat along the way.

Karen
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In article <ngc1j.6707$ht1.4704@trndny01>,
"Julie Bove" > wrote:

> "jmcquown" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> > I'm fussy about not liking raw veggies. It's not so much the taste as it
> > is
> > a texture thing with me. But I'll eat just about any cooked veggie there
> > is. Guess it's a good thing I didn't plan to bring artichoke hearts... oh
> > wait, I have a jar of them I could take with me

>
> I'm just the opposite. I'll eat pretty much anything raw but potatoes.


Have you tried raw artichokes?

:-)

Raw potatoes aren't bad. One bite is enough, though.
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"Dan Abel" > wrote
>
> Raw potatoes aren't bad. One bite is enough, though.


If one bite is enough, they can't be too good.


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In article >,
Serene > wrote:

> Abe wrote:
> >> jmcquown wrote:
> >>> She's one of those people, if she doesn't know what it is it
> >>> must be terrible. If anyone mentioned sourdough she'd freak.
> >>> WHATEVER.
> >> I'd advise to steer clear of mental cases like her.

> > There's clearly something screwy in her upbringing that has affected
> > this way. I don't think she sees that she has a choice in the matter.
> > It's called a mental illness.

>
> Why would you blame a person's mental illness on her parents?



Personal experience.

Children learn from their parents. When one is insane, and the other
avoids the family, then the child learns from that parent. When the
primary role model is insane, the child has no choice but to learn that.

Personal experience. It hasn't been pretty.
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On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 16:38:36 -0800, Dan Abel > wrote:

>In article >,
> Serene > wrote:
>
>> Abe wrote:
>> >> jmcquown wrote:
>> >>> She's one of those people, if she doesn't know what it is it
>> >>> must be terrible. If anyone mentioned sourdough she'd freak.
>> >>> WHATEVER.
>> >> I'd advise to steer clear of mental cases like her.
>> > There's clearly something screwy in her upbringing that has affected
>> > this way. I don't think she sees that she has a choice in the matter.
>> > It's called a mental illness.

>>
>> Why would you blame a person's mental illness on her parents?

>
>
>Personal experience.
>
>Children learn from their parents. When one is insane, and the other
>avoids the family, then the child learns from that parent. When the
>primary role model is insane, the child has no choice but to learn that.
>
>Personal experience. It hasn't been pretty.


I learned a few years ago from a psychologist that a person can be
driven insane. It's especially true for children because they don't
have many (sane) life experiences to fall back on for a reality check.

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Oh pshaw, on Fri 23 Nov 2007 06:18:15p, meant to say...

> On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 16:38:36 -0800, Dan Abel > wrote:
>
>>In article >,
>> Serene > wrote:
>>
>>> Abe wrote:
>>> >> jmcquown wrote:
>>> >>> She's one of those people, if she doesn't know what it is it
>>> >>> must be terrible. If anyone mentioned sourdough she'd freak.
>>> >>> WHATEVER.
>>> >> I'd advise to steer clear of mental cases like her.
>>> > There's clearly something screwy in her upbringing that has affected
>>> > this way. I don't think she sees that she has a choice in the matter.
>>> > It's called a mental illness.
>>>
>>> Why would you blame a person's mental illness on her parents?

>>
>>
>>Personal experience.
>>
>>Children learn from their parents. When one is insane, and the other
>>avoids the family, then the child learns from that parent. When the
>>primary role model is insane, the child has no choice but to learn that.
>>
>>Personal experience. It hasn't been pretty.

>
> I learned a few years ago from a psychologist that a person can be
> driven insane. It's especially true for children because they don't
> have many (sane) life experiences to fall back on for a reality check.
>


If I'm going to be driven there, make it at least in a mercedes.

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On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 01:32:16 GMT, Wayne Boatwright
> wrote:

>If I'm going to be driven there, make it at least in a mercedes.


Amen, brother!

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Jack > wrote:

> I worked with a fellow, that while a nice guy, would not eat at
> any of the group lunches or company sponsored functions. Various
> people asked him what was the matter, and he would not answer;
> he'd just smile and eat nothing.


Did he come from Transylvania and insist on being addressed
"Count"?

S.
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On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 19:33:05 GMT, "Michael \"Dog3\""
> wrote:

>blake murphy > dropped this
: in rec.food.cooking
>
>> On Thu, 22 Nov 2007 21:00:10 -0500, Dave Smith
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>Michael \"Dog3\" wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Why not? That is what a lot of those mentally people do.
>>>>
>>>> Mental illness is a damned shame. My now deceased friend has a
>>>> grandchild with Schizophrenia. It is ugly. Very ugly and no one is
>>>> to blame.
>>>
>>>
>>>It is a damned shame, and you never know when it is going to strike
>>>you, a family member or a friend. It can run a range, from mild down
>>>to a serious and debilitating depression, from zany moments to raving
>>>lunacy. It's hard for the rest of us to deal with because there it can
>>>be hard to deal with rationally. I don't know many people without some
>>>form of mental illness somewhere in the family.

>>
>> very true. it's a shame that compassion isn't nearly as widespread.

>
>
>Blake, I'm a compassionate person. I don't understand the lack of it. I
>just don't get it.
>
>Michael


it's hard to say. possibly some kind of defense mechanism: 'there's
something wrong with that person; that's why it happened to them. but
i'm a good person, so that could never happen to me.'

i'm not saying you should go around paralyzed with angst about all the
crappy things that happen to people, but it should be enough to say,
'sure glad it isn't me' rather than 'well, they probably deserve it
anyhow.' it's baffling.

or maybe it's some kind of residual puritan idea that folks are being
punished by god, who seems to go in for that sort of thing.

your pal,
blake


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On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 18:24:43 GMT, Puester >
wrote:

>Julia Altshuler wrote:
>> jmcquown wrote:
>>>
>>> Okay, at what point in my original post did everyone miss the fact
>>> that we
>>> weren't "accomodating" her? She actually managed to get a very nice
>>> plate
>>> of food for herself, what with green beans (surprise! she actually eats
>>> green beans!), dark meat turkey and a roll.

>>
>>
>> Green beans. So she does eat vegetables.
>>
>>
>> People are divided on this one so you'll be in trouble either way.
>>
>>
>> I'm still curious about the sex thing. Why don't we ask her?
>>
>>
>> --Lia
>>

>
>
>I hope she'd say it's none of our business....
>
>gloria p


what if she said 'come by and check it out!'? then where would you
be?

your pal,
blake


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On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 01:32:16 GMT, Wayne Boatwright
> wrote:

>Oh pshaw, on Fri 23 Nov 2007 06:18:15p, meant to say...
>
>> On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 16:38:36 -0800, Dan Abel > wrote:
>>
>>>In article >,
>>> Serene > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Abe wrote:
>>>> >> jmcquown wrote:
>>>> >>> She's one of those people, if she doesn't know what it is it
>>>> >>> must be terrible. If anyone mentioned sourdough she'd freak.
>>>> >>> WHATEVER.
>>>> >> I'd advise to steer clear of mental cases like her.
>>>> > There's clearly something screwy in her upbringing that has affected
>>>> > this way. I don't think she sees that she has a choice in the matter.
>>>> > It's called a mental illness.
>>>>
>>>> Why would you blame a person's mental illness on her parents?
>>>
>>>
>>>Personal experience.
>>>
>>>Children learn from their parents. When one is insane, and the other
>>>avoids the family, then the child learns from that parent. When the
>>>primary role model is insane, the child has no choice but to learn that.
>>>
>>>Personal experience. It hasn't been pretty.

>>
>> I learned a few years ago from a psychologist that a person can be
>> driven insane. It's especially true for children because they don't
>> have many (sane) life experiences to fall back on for a reality check.
>>

>
>If I'm going to be driven there, make it at least in a mercedes.


....with a few stops at saloons along the way.

your pal,
blake

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Oh pshaw, on Sat 24 Nov 2007 10:09:25a, blake murphy meant to say...

> On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 01:32:16 GMT, Wayne Boatwright
> > wrote:
>
>>Oh pshaw, on Fri 23 Nov 2007 06:18:15p, meant to say...
>>
>>> On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 16:38:36 -0800, Dan Abel > wrote:
>>>
>>>>In article >,
>>>> Serene > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Abe wrote:
>>>>> >> jmcquown wrote:
>>>>> >>> She's one of those people, if she doesn't know what it is it
>>>>> >>> must be terrible. If anyone mentioned sourdough she'd freak.
>>>>> >>> WHATEVER.
>>>>> >> I'd advise to steer clear of mental cases like her.
>>>>> > There's clearly something screwy in her upbringing that has

affected
>>>>> > this way. I don't think she sees that she has a choice in the

matter.
>>>>> > It's called a mental illness.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why would you blame a person's mental illness on her parents?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Personal experience.
>>>>
>>>>Children learn from their parents. When one is insane, and the other
>>>>avoids the family, then the child learns from that parent. When the
>>>>primary role model is insane, the child has no choice but to learn

that.
>>>>
>>>>Personal experience. It hasn't been pretty.
>>>
>>> I learned a few years ago from a psychologist that a person can be
>>> driven insane. It's especially true for children because they don't
>>> have many (sane) life experiences to fall back on for a reality check.
>>>

>>
>>If I'm going to be driven there, make it at least in a mercedes.

>
> ...with a few stops at saloons along the way.
>
> your pal,
> blake
>
>


Make that a Mercedes limo with a bar. :-)

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On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 16:57:47 GMT, blake murphy >
wrote:

>or maybe it's some kind of residual puritan idea that folks are being
>punished by god, who seems to go in for that sort of thing.


We don't have to blame the Puritans. We have plenty of modern day
bible thumpers who think that way.

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blake murphy wrote:
>
>
>
> it's hard to say. possibly some kind of defense mechanism: 'there's
> something wrong with that person; that's why it happened to them. but
> i'm a good person, so that could never happen to me.'
>
> i'm not saying you should go around paralyzed with angst about all the
> crappy things that happen to people, but it should be enough to say,
> 'sure glad it isn't me' rather than 'well, they probably deserve it
> anyhow.' it's baffling.
>
> or maybe it's some kind of residual puritan idea that folks are being
> punished by god, who seems to go in for that sort of thing.



It can be exasperating to try to deal with it. I have some friend's whose
youngest sister is a little messed up. She has never been diagnosed with
anything, but her life is a mess. When one of the brothers was staying
with us a few years ago he went into town to check on her and he was in
tears when he described her condition to us. She was living in a dark,
dirty apartment above a bar with just a bed, a chair, dresser and a TV. She
sits in her room all day, watches television and chain smokes and eats
pizza. Their father died a few years ago and left them a lot of money and
a trust account was set up for the troubled sister. They got her into a
nicer apartment near a nice mall.


She claims that she does not want money from them. She doesn't want much to
do with any of them, or even with her children. A few years ago the
brothers in sisters were all in town for Thanksgiving. They are scattered
across the country and rarely get home. The mother was suffering from
Leukaemia (died just a few months later). My wife and I went down to visit
with the mother and the rest of the family and they called the troubled
sister to invite her over. She lived a 10 minute bus ride away. they even
offered to come and pick her up. Her response ....Why don't you all just
leave me alone.

So she lives in her little apartment, smoking, eating crap food and
watching television. She does not shower or bathe, or wash her hair, or
even brush her teeth. She has become extremely fat. She is sick, likely
depressed, but does not want help, will not seek help, and there is nothing
they can do to make her get it. They feel obligated to help their sister,
but the sister does nothing to ingratiate herself to them. It is a losing
battle.


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Dan Abel wrote:
> In article >,
> Serene > wrote:
>
>> Abe wrote:
>>>> jmcquown wrote:
>>>>> She's one of those people, if she doesn't know what it is it
>>>>> must be terrible. If anyone mentioned sourdough she'd freak.
>>>>> WHATEVER.
>>>> I'd advise to steer clear of mental cases like her.
>>> There's clearly something screwy in her upbringing that has affected
>>> this way. I don't think she sees that she has a choice in the matter.
>>> It's called a mental illness.

>> Why would you blame a person's mental illness on her parents?

>
>
> Personal experience.
>
> Children learn from their parents. When one is insane, and the other
> avoids the family, then the child learns from that parent. When the
> primary role model is insane, the child has no choice but to learn that.
>
> Personal experience. It hasn't been pretty.


Your experience is sad, but to say that there's "clearly" something
in someone's upbringing that causes mental illness is such a grave
insult to the millions of good parents who have children with mental
illnesses. (And it's not true that if one has insane parents, one
has no choice but to be insane, as well. I know many (too many!)
people with genuinely insane parents who ended up rising above that
and being happy and healthy.

ObFood: Serene, you silly, silly person, please stop eating salty
snacks before bed. You are just *asking* for a headache.

Serene
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On Nov 24, 12:13 pm, sf wrote:
> On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 16:57:47 GMT, blake murphy >
> wrote:
>
> >or maybe it's some kind of residual puritan idea that folks are being
> >punished by god, who seems to go in for that sort of thing.

>
> We don't have to blame the Puritans. We have plenty of modern day
> bible thumpers who think that way.
>

People who write things like that are almost always people who God
hates anyway.

--Bryan
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"Serene" > wrote
>
> Your experience is sad, but to say that there's "clearly" something in
> someone's upbringing that causes mental illness is such a grave insult to
> the millions of good parents who have children with mental illnesses.



Yes indeed. A dear friend's son was diagnosed with Schizophrenia
while he was in college, all of 19 years old. She and her husband
blamed themselves (for no good reason) and are divorced now.
This is their only son, well loved, well cared for, the bright child
of very bright parents, both professionally accomplished.


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"blake murphy" > wrote
>
> or maybe it's some kind of residual puritan idea that folks are being
> punished by god, who seems to go in for that sort of thing.
>


Or maybe just "DESTROY THE DIFFERENT ONE! DIFFERENT BAD!
UG!"

Beat that for a dark view of human nature.

(Also, mental illness is defined as "[blah blah blah ...] and they bother
people.
Until you bother people in some way, you can be as crazy as an outhouse rat
and nobody will call you mentally ill.)


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"cybercat" > wrote
>
> "Serene" > wrote
>>
>> Your experience is sad, but to say that there's "clearly" something in
>> someone's upbringing that causes mental illness is such a grave insult to
>> the millions of good parents who have children with mental illnesses.

>
>
> Yes indeed. A dear friend's son was diagnosed with Schizophrenia
> while he was in college, all of 19 years old. She and her husband
> blamed themselves (for no good reason) and are divorced now.
> This is their only son, well loved, well cared for, the bright child
> of very bright parents, both professionally accomplished.


Schizophrenia runs in families, and I would hope we've moved beyond
"it's the mother's fault" ... it's biological in cause.

nancy




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<sf> wrote in message ...
> On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 16:57:47 GMT, blake murphy >
> wrote:
>
>>or maybe it's some kind of residual puritan idea that folks are being
>>punished by god, who seems to go in for that sort of thing.

>
> We don't have to blame the Puritans. We have plenty of modern day
> bible thumpers who think that way.




It would be interesting to view a survey of rfc'ers of their religious
beliefs.
Dee Dee


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Dee.Dee > wrote:

>It would be interesting to view a survey of rfc'ers of their religious
>beliefs.


Religion and barbecue.

S.
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"Serene" > wrote in message
...
> Dan Abel wrote:
>> In article >,
>> Serene > wrote:
>>
>>> Abe wrote:
>>>>> jmcquown wrote:
>>>>>> She's one of those people, if she doesn't know what it is it
>>>>>> must be terrible. If anyone mentioned sourdough she'd freak.
>>>>>> WHATEVER.
>>>>> I'd advise to steer clear of mental cases like her.
>>>> There's clearly something screwy in her upbringing that has affected
>>>> this way. I don't think she sees that she has a choice in the matter.
>>>> It's called a mental illness.
>>> Why would you blame a person's mental illness on her parents?

>>
>>
>> Personal experience. Children learn from their parents. When one is
>> insane, and the other avoids the family, then the child learns from that
>> parent. When the primary role model is insane, the child has no choice
>> but to learn that.
>>
>> Personal experience. It hasn't been pretty.

>
> Your experience is sad, but to say that there's "clearly" something in
> someone's upbringing that causes mental illness is such a grave insult to
> the millions of good parents who have children with mental illnesses.
> (And it's not true that if one has insane parents, one has no choice but
> to be insane, as well. I know many (too many!) people with genuinely
> insane parents who ended up rising above that and being happy and healthy.
>
> Serene



No, No -- you don't get it!! The parents are insane; therefore the children
are insane; and the parents always will be; the children always will be;
there will never be a chance for that child.


Dee Dee



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"Serene" > wrote in message

> Why would you blame a person's mental illness on her parents?


To cast blame upon someone not present in the room (i.e.
either the therapist or the patient).

I have a person farily close to me who blames one of their parents
for all manner of emotional problems that they face. I suspect
this blame-game is encouraged by therapist(s). I also expect
it may interfere mightily in their ability to deal with their
problems.

But then, I could be wrong; there's no way of knowing for sure.

Steve
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In article >,
(Steve Pope) wrote:

> Dee.Dee > wrote:
>
> >It would be interesting to view a survey of rfc'ers of their religious
> >beliefs.

>
> Religion and barbecue.



What's the difference?

:-)


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In article >,
Serene > wrote:

> Dan Abel wrote:
> > In article >,
> > Serene > wrote:
> >
> >> Abe wrote:
> >>>> jmcquown wrote:
> >>>>> She's one of those people, if she doesn't know what it is it
> >>>>> must be terrible. If anyone mentioned sourdough she'd freak.
> >>>>> WHATEVER.
> >>>> I'd advise to steer clear of mental cases like her.
> >>> There's clearly something screwy in her upbringing that has affected
> >>> this way. I don't think she sees that she has a choice in the matter.
> >>> It's called a mental illness.
> >> Why would you blame a person's mental illness on her parents?

> >
> >
> > Personal experience.
> >
> > Children learn from their parents. When one is insane, and the other
> > avoids the family, then the child learns from that parent. When the
> > primary role model is insane, the child has no choice but to learn that.
> >
> > Personal experience. It hasn't been pretty.

>
> Your experience is sad, but to say that there's "clearly" something
> in someone's upbringing that causes mental illness is such a grave
> insult to the millions of good parents who have children with mental
> illnesses. (And it's not true that if one has insane parents, one
> has no choice but to be insane, as well. I know many (too many!)
> people with genuinely insane parents who ended up rising above that
> and being happy and healthy.


I was overreacting. It's true that people can overcome this. Some
don't. It depends on different factors. I've just had too much
personal experience with parents who have children with problems. I am
fortunate that my own parents were pretty sane.
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In article >, sf wrote:

> On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 16:38:36 -0800, Dan Abel > wrote:
>
> >In article >,
> > Serene > wrote:
> >
> >> Abe wrote:
> >> >> jmcquown wrote:
> >> >>> She's one of those people, if she doesn't know what it is it
> >> >>> must be terrible. If anyone mentioned sourdough she'd freak.
> >> >>> WHATEVER.
> >> >> I'd advise to steer clear of mental cases like her.
> >> > There's clearly something screwy in her upbringing that has affected
> >> > this way. I don't think she sees that she has a choice in the matter.
> >> > It's called a mental illness.
> >>
> >> Why would you blame a person's mental illness on her parents?

> >
> >
> >Personal experience.
> >
> >Children learn from their parents. When one is insane, and the other
> >avoids the family, then the child learns from that parent. When the
> >primary role model is insane, the child has no choice but to learn that.
> >
> >Personal experience. It hasn't been pretty.

>
> I learned a few years ago from a psychologist that a person can be
> driven insane. It's especially true for children because they don't
> have many (sane) life experiences to fall back on for a reality check.


Thanks for posting that. That is exactly what I was trying to
communicate. I have a relative who has no connection with reality. His
mother didn't, and so he never learned how to.
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In article >,
Wayne Boatwright > wrote:

> Oh pshaw, on Fri 23 Nov 2007 06:18:15p, meant to say...
>
> > On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 16:38:36 -0800, Dan Abel > wrote:
> >
> >>In article >,
> >> Serene > wrote:
> >>
> >>> Abe wrote:
> >>> >> jmcquown wrote:
> >>> >>> She's one of those people, if she doesn't know what it is it
> >>> >>> must be terrible. If anyone mentioned sourdough she'd freak.
> >>> >>> WHATEVER.
> >>> >> I'd advise to steer clear of mental cases like her.
> >>> > There's clearly something screwy in her upbringing that has affected
> >>> > this way. I don't think she sees that she has a choice in the matter.
> >>> > It's called a mental illness.
> >>>
> >>> Why would you blame a person's mental illness on her parents?
> >>
> >>
> >>Personal experience.
> >>
> >>Children learn from their parents. When one is insane, and the other
> >>avoids the family, then the child learns from that parent. When the
> >>primary role model is insane, the child has no choice but to learn that.
> >>
> >>Personal experience. It hasn't been pretty.

> >
> > I learned a few years ago from a psychologist that a person can be
> > driven insane. It's especially true for children because they don't
> > have many (sane) life experiences to fall back on for a reality check.
> >

>
> If I'm going to be driven there, make it at least in a mercedes.


You've got it. Of course, if you are going to be insane, it will be a
virtual MercedesBenz.
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On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 23:35:43 -0800, Dan Abel > wrote:
>In article >,
> Wayne Boatwright > wrote:
>
>> Oh pshaw, on Fri 23 Nov 2007 06:18:15p, meant to say...
>>
>> > On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 16:38:36 -0800, Dan Abel > wrote:
>> >
>> >> Serene > wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Why would you blame a person's mental illness on her parents?
>> >>
>> >>Children learn from their parents. When one is insane, and the other
>> >>avoids the family, then the child learns from that parent. When the
>> >>primary role model is insane, the child has no choice but to learn that.
>> >>
>> >>Personal experience. It hasn't been pretty.
>> >
>> > I learned a few years ago from a psychologist that a person can be
>> > driven insane. It's especially true for children because they don't
>> > have many (sane) life experiences to fall back on for a reality check.

>>
>> If I'm going to be driven there, make it at least in a mercedes.

>
>You've got it. Of course, if you are going to be insane, it will be a
>virtual MercedesBenz.


Channeling Janis Joplin.....

"Oh Lord, won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz ?
My friends all drive Porsches, I must make amends.
Worked hard all my lifetime, no help from my friends,
So Lord, won’t you buy me a Mercedes Benz ?"

--
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