General Cooking (rec.food.cooking) For general food and cooking discussion. Foods of all kinds, food procurement, cooking methods and techniques, eating, etc.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.cooking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 22
Default Making bread rise without yeast

Being a kind of perpetual advanced beginner when it comes to cooking,
I am always playing around with different ideas and ways of
economizing. SInce yeast is kind of expensive (relative to flour and
salt) when you get it in individual packets, (though cheaper when
bought at Sam's Club), I thought I would look at ways of using natural
yeasts, etc.

An old library book on breads (forget the title) gave me this recipe:

***
Witch Yeast

1 cup mashed potato
1/4 cup sugar
2 teaspoons salt
1 cup warm water

Stir together in jar and cover with cloth. Leave 2 days. Use or sea
and refrigerate.

***

So I gave this a whirl and it worked fine. Made a loaf of bread with a
stirred batter of about 50% white bread flour, 50% rye flour, plus
some water, salt and caraway seeds. Placed it in baking tin, covered
it with cling film, and left it on the kitchen counter for a few
hours. It eventually doubled in size. (My kitchen is a Florida kitchen
and is not air-conditioned, so if you live in Greenland, you may get
different results.)

I baked it the normal way. (Pan of steaming H2O in electric oven, 10
mins at 450, then 25 mins at 375.)

Result perfect loaf, soft crust, chewy, tight crumb, nice flavor,
except for one thing. IT SMELLS OF POTATOES. Well, duh, silly me, of
course it does, and it went fine with my lunch today of borsch with
sour cream and bread and butter.

Now, I have another recipe for a sourdough starter, which is coming
along fine:

***

2 cups rye flour
1 1/2 cups warm water
1 package dry yeast
1 slice onion.

Stir, cover, stand 3 days. Remove onion. Use or seal and refridgerate.

***

So far this smells wonderful, and I am sure it will work fine and make
an even better bread, but it still has yeast in it. Anyone have any
ideas on making a good sourdough starter for a rye loaf without using
any yeast?

  #2 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.cooking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,251
Default Making bread rise without yeast

On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 09:29:38 -0700, jmm1951 > wrote:

>Being a kind of perpetual advanced beginner when it comes to cooking,
>I am always playing around with different ideas and ways of
>economizing. SInce yeast is kind of expensive (relative to flour and
>salt) when you get it in individual packets, (though cheaper when
>bought at Sam's Club), I thought I would look at ways of using natural
>yeasts, etc.


snip starter recipes...

If your hesitation in using yeast is cost only, do go ahead and buy a
1lb container from any club store around. The stuff lasts forever and
a day in the freezer and only forever in the fridge. I used 2.5 yr old
yeast to make bread over the weekend. No problemo.

Ok...on to starters....

You can easily make a starter of only flour and water. Nothing else is
needed. There is a link below to read up on it. You can make a starter
easily with rye flour, too and use that, if you wish for making rye
bread. Many people create a starter with rye to get it going and
switch it over to white flour once it is established. You can
certainly maintain a rye starter, though.

http://www.nyx.net/~dgreenw/sourdoughfaqs.html

You can easily and inexpensively (cost of a stamp and self addressed
envelope) obtain a tried and true dried starter from the link below.
Recipes are there, too.

http://home.att.net/~carlsfriends/

>So far this smells wonderful, and I am sure it will work fine and make
>an even better bread, but it still has yeast in it. Anyone have any
>ideas on making a good sourdough starter for a rye loaf without using
>any yeast?


Here is one of Darrell Greenwood's pages that talks about converting
yeast recipes to sourdough starter ones.

http://www.nyx.net/~dgreenw/howdoico...tbreadrec.html

Another thing you can do to deepen the flavor of your regular yeast or
sourdough breads is to use a sponge, biga, poolish or pre-ferment when
making them....basically, you combine starter, flour and water, or a
small amount of yeast, flour and water and let it ferment overnight.
Continue with your recipe the next day. It truly helps in bread
flavor.

A link for reading up on some great recipes that use these
pre-ferments is he

http://www.theartisan.net/bredfrm.htm

Another all around good site for bread baking in general is he

http://www.barryharmon.com/

Now, for more fun, come on over to alt.bread.recipes.

Boron



  #3 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.cooking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,207
Default Making bread rise without yeast

Boron wrote on Tue, 04 Sep 2007 13:05:10 -0400:
BE> Another thing you can do to deepen the flavor of your
BE> regular yeast or sourdough breads is to use a sponge, biga,
BE> poolish or pre-ferment when making them....basically, you
BE> combine starter, flour and water, or a small amount of
BE> yeast, flour and water and let it ferment overnight.
BE> Continue with your recipe the next day. It truly helps in
BE> bread flavor.

It helps a lot to be in San Francisco! The wild sour-dough
yeasts there *are* the best!

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

E-mail, with obvious alterations:
not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

  #4 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.cooking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12,124
Default Making bread rise without yeast + recipe for white bread

In article . com>,
jmm1951 > wrote:

> Being a kind of perpetual advanced beginner when it comes to cooking,
> I am always playing around with different ideas and ways of
> economizing. SInce yeast is kind of expensive (relative to flour and
> salt) when you get it in individual packets, (though cheaper when
> bought at Sam's Club), I thought I would look at ways of using natural
> yeasts, etc.


I don't think you can compare the *cost* of the dry yeast to the *cost*
of the flour in a loaf of bread. The per-pound *price* of yeast
(~$3/lb at my food co-op) is greater than the per-pound *price* of flour
(~$.50 for all-purpose flour at the supermarket), but when I bake two
loaves of white bread, I'm using less than $.05 worth of dry yeast and
about $.75 worth of flour.

I think your cost-to-produce analysis is off kilter. If you want to
culture your own yeast, that's cool, but I don't think it's any cheaper
than buying active dry yeast at a food co-op (or Sam's Club).

BTW, here's a recipe for white bread that will have people screaming,
"Bo-o-o-o-ring!" And it has won several ribbons (including blue; most
recently red) at my state's state fair.

{ Exported from MasterCook Mac }

Sweepstakes White Bread (Half recipe - 2 large loaves)

Recipe By: posted to rec.food.cooking by Barb Schaller, 9-4-1007
Serving Size: 24
Preparation Time: 4:30
Categories: Yeast Breads

Amount Measure Ingredient Preparation Method
1 package active dry yeast (2-1/4 teaspoons) (1/4 oz.)
1/4 cup warm water (110°F/45°C)
1/2 tsp sugar
1 cup milk scalded
3 scant tablespoons shortening
3 scant tablespoons sugar
1 tablespoon salt
3/4 cup cold water
2 1/2 cups all-purpose flour (2 1/2 to 2 3/4 cup)
2 1/2 cups bread flour (2 1/2 to 2 3/4 cup)
Butter

In a small bowl, dissolve yeast in warm water with 1/2 teaspoon sugar.

In a large bowl, combine scalded milk, sugar, shortening, and salt. Add
cold water to cool mixture to lukewarm.

Stir in dissolved yeast, 2 cups all purpose flour and 2 cups bread
flour. Beat well until smooth.

By hand, stir in enough additional flour to make a stiff dough. Turn
out dough onto a floured surface, Knead minimum of 10 minutes or until
dough is smooth and elastic.

Wash and grease a large bowl. Place dough in bowl. Cover with plastic
film; let rise in a warm place 60-75 minutes or until doubled in size.

Punch down dough. Cover, let rise 30 minutes. Punch down dough.

Divide dough in 2 pieces; shape in oblongs. Cover with an inverted bowl
and let rest 15 minutes.

Grease 2 (8-1/2²x4-1/2²) loaf pans. Shape dough pieces in loaves.
Place in greased pans and lightly grease tops of loaves. Cover and let
rise until loaves are light and almost as high as you want them when
baked, about 45 to 60 minutes.

Preheat oven to 400°F (205°C). Bake in preheated oven 45 minutes or
until loaves sound hollow when lightly tapped. Remove from pans.
Immediately butter tops of warm loaves. Makes 2 loaves.
‹‹‹‹‹
Notes: Source: Page 82, America¹s Best State Fair Recipes, Catherine
Hanley, HP Books, 1987. Second place winner in 1990, 1993, 1995, 1997,
and 2007 Minnesota State Fairs - nine ribbons total out of the 14 times
I've entered the lot . It won First Place at the 2000 Fair!! Woo-hoo!

This is Elaine Janas' recipe; Elaine was for many years the White Bread
Queen of the Minnesota State Fair. To Marjorie Johnson's great
disappointment, Elaine is the only recipient of the Fair's grand poohbah
award for baking in the 5-6 years that it has been awarded. At this
year's Fair, my loaf was second place and Elaine's was third.
_____
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
For your listening pleasu http://www.am1500.com/pcast/80509.mp3 --
from the MN State Fair, 8-29-07
  #5 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.cooking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,251
Default Making bread rise without yeast

On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 17:30:35 GMT, "James Silverton"
> wrote:

> Boron wrote on Tue, 04 Sep 2007 13:05:10 -0400:
> BE> Another thing you can do to deepen the flavor of your
> BE> regular yeast or sourdough breads is to use a sponge, biga,
> BE> poolish or pre-ferment when making them....basically, you
> BE> combine starter, flour and water, or a small amount of
> BE> yeast, flour and water and let it ferment overnight.
> BE> Continue with your recipe the next day. It truly helps in
> BE> bread flavor.
>
> It helps a lot to be in San Francisco! The wild sour-dough
>yeasts there *are* the best!
>
>James Silverton
>Potomac, Maryland
>


I beg to differ. It is not just the culture that contributes to the
flavor of the bread, but the ingredients themselves, dough formation,
rise times and baking techniques.

And let me add another wonderful bread site:

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/

Boron


  #6 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.cooking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 654
Default Making bread rise without yeast


"Boron Elgar" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 09:29:38 -0700, jmm1951 > wrote:
>
> A link for reading up on some great recipes that use these
> pre-ferments is he
>
> http://www.theartisan.net/bredfrm.htm
>
> Another all around good site for bread baking in general is he
>
> http://www.barryharmon.com/
>
> Now, for more fun, come on over to alt.bread.recipes.
>
> Boron
>

You forgot http://planeguy.mine.nu/bread/ the FAQ for alt.bread.recipes
Janet


  #7 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.cooking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,207
Default Making bread rise without yeast

Boron wrote on Tue, 04 Sep 2007 13:38:37 -0400:

??>> Boron wrote on Tue, 04 Sep 2007 13:05:10 -0400:
BE>>> Another thing you can do to deepen the flavor of your
BE>>> regular yeast or sourdough breads is to use a sponge,
BE>>> biga, poolish or pre-ferment when making
BE>>> them....basically, you combine starter, flour and water,
BE>>> or a small amount of yeast, flour and water and let it
BE>>> ferment overnight. Continue with your recipe the next
BE>>> day. It truly helps in bread flavor.
??>>
??>> It helps a lot to be in San Francisco! The wild sour-dough
??>> yeasts there *are* the best!
??>>
??>> James Silverton
??>> Potomac, Maryland
??>>
BE> I beg to differ. It is not just the culture that
BE> contributes to the flavor of the bread, but the ingredients
BE> themselves, dough formation, rise times and baking
BE> techniques.

BE> And let me add another wonderful bread site:

BE> http://www.thefreshloaf.com/

I expected (hoped?) for this reaction from someone. It is a fact
that starter working well for us in San Francisco, gradually
changes to rather ordinary around Washington DC. I think the San
Francisco yeasts are not as hardy as the East Coast ones. I am
not the only one to observe this :-)

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

E-mail, with obvious alterations:
not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

  #8 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.cooking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,551
Default Making bread rise without yeast

jmm1951 wrote:
>
> I am always playing around with different ideas and ways of
> economizing. SInce yeast is kind of expensive (relative to flour and
> salt) when you get it in individual packets, (though cheaper when
> bought at Sam's Club.


Yeast is actually relatively inexpensive compared with everything else
involved with bread baking (the typical single loaf of white bread
costs more to bake than all it's ingredients combined). Claiming
yeast is expensive within the realm of baking bread is like saying
fountain pen ink is expensive in relation to pens. Also, if you're
going to bake the occasional loaf why does the price of yeast
matter... and if you bake more than occasionally and/or are a cheapB
then you'd just be a great big fool by not buying bulk yeast.

Sheldon

  #9 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.cooking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,551
Default Making bread rise without yeast + recipe for white bread

Melba's Jammin' wrote:
>>

> I think your cost-to-produce analysis is off kilter. If you want to
> culture your own yeast, that's cool, but I don't think it's any cheaper
> than buying active dry yeast at a food co-op (or Sam's Club).


Agreed, especially when bought in bulk

> BTW, here's a recipe for white bread that will have people screaming,
> "Bo-o-o-o-ring!" And it has won several ribbons (including blue; most
> recently red) at my state's state fair.
>
> { Exported from MasterCook Mac }
>
> Sweepstakes White Bread (Half recipe - 2 large loaves)
> 1 cup milk scalded


Why scalded? There's no reason to scald milk anymore, not since the
advent of pasteurization.

Sheldon

  #10 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.cooking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,463
Default Making bread rise without yeast


"James Silverton" > wrote in message
news:lRgDi.1502$6T5.65@trnddc06...
> I expected (hoped?) for this reaction from someone. It is a fact that
> starter working well for us in San Francisco, gradually changes to rather
> ordinary around Washington DC. I think the San Francisco yeasts are not as
> hardy as the East Coast ones. I am not the only one to observe this :-)
>
> James Silverton
> Potomac, Maryland



I'm not sure what you mean about the difference between SF yeasts and East
Coast yeasts not being as "hardy." Would 'hardy' yeasts be the cause of the
difference in flavor?
Dee Dee (lived San Francisco many years and ate a lot of SF Sourdough)





  #11 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.cooking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12,124
Default Making bread rise without yeast + recipe for white bread

In article . com>,
Sheldon > wrote:

> Melba's Jammin' wrote:


> > Sweepstakes White Bread (Half recipe - 2 large loaves)
> > 1 cup milk scalded

>
> Why scalded? There's no reason to scald milk anymore, not since the
> advent of pasteurization.
>
> Sheldon


Probably because it's an old recipe and those of the time often
instructed to scald the milk, necessary or not.
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
For your listening pleasu http://www.am1500.com/pcast/80509.mp3 --
from the MN State Fair, 8-29-07
  #12 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.cooking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,635
Default Making bread rise without yeast

Steve Wertz > wrote:

>On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 09:29:38 -0700, jmm1951 wrote:


>> SInce yeast is kind of expensive (relative to flour and
>> salt) when you get it in individual packets, (though cheaper when
>> bought at Sam's Club), I thought I would look at ways of using natural
>> yeasts, etc.


>Last three-pack of Red Star Yeast I bought was $.79. Enough for
>12+ loaves of the no-knead bread recipe.


My local grocery store (Andronico's) charges $2.99 for a
3-pack of Fleishman's yeast. Of course that is an absurdly
high price. I use 2/3 of a pack to make one good-sized pizza.

Steve
  #13 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.cooking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,207
Default Making bread rise without yeast

Dee wrote on Tue, 4 Sep 2007 18:22:30 -0400:


DD> "James Silverton" > wrote in
DD> message news:lRgDi.1502$6T5.65@trnddc06...
??>> I expected (hoped?) for this reaction from someone. It is
??>> a fact that starter working well for us in San Francisco,
??>> gradually changes to rather ordinary around Washington DC.
??>> I think the San Francisco yeasts are not as hardy as the
??>> East Coast ones. I am not the only one to observe this :-)
??>>
??>> James Silverton
??>> Potomac, Maryland

It happens! The starter loses its ability to produce good sour
dough! What other explanation is there apart from a change in
the yeast?

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

E-mail, with obvious alterations:
not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

  #14 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.cooking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,641
Default Making bread rise without yeast

On Tue, 4 Sep 2007 11:39:41 -0600, "Janet B." >
wrote:

>
>"Boron Elgar" > wrote in message
.. .
>> On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 09:29:38 -0700, jmm1951 > wrote:
>>
>> A link for reading up on some great recipes that use these
>> pre-ferments is he
>>
>> http://www.theartisan.net/bredfrm.htm
>>
>> Another all around good site for bread baking in general is he
>>
>> http://www.barryharmon.com/
>>
>> Now, for more fun, come on over to alt.bread.recipes.
>>
>> Boron
>>

>You forgot http://planeguy.mine.nu/bread/ the FAQ for alt.bread.recipes
>Janet
>



AAK! Slap me with a wet noodle!

Thanks, Janet.....boy, of all things to forget!

Boron
  #15 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.cooking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,463
Default Making bread rise without yeast


"James Silverton" > wrote in message
news:f6mDi.10000$sf1.2731@trnddc01...
> Dee wrote on Tue, 4 Sep 2007 18:22:30 -0400:
>
>
> DD> "James Silverton" > wrote in
> DD> message news:lRgDi.1502$6T5.65@trnddc06...
> ??>> I expected (hoped?) for this reaction from someone. It is
> ??>> a fact that starter working well for us in San Francisco,
> ??>> gradually changes to rather ordinary around Washington DC.
> ??>> I think the San Francisco yeasts are not as hardy as the
> ??>> East Coast ones. I am not the only one to observe this :-)
> ??>>
> ??>> James Silverton
> ??>> Potomac, Maryland
>
> It happens! The starter loses its ability to produce good sour dough!
> What other explanation is there apart from a change in the yeast?
>
> James Silverton
> Potomac, Maryland
>
> E-mail, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not


World Sourdoughs from Antiquity by Ed Wood
and
Classic Sourdoughs: A Home Baker's Handbook by Ed Wood
and
Have you been subscribed to rec.food.sourdough?
Dee Dee




>





  #16 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.cooking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,463
Default Making bread rise without yeast + recipe for white bread


"Steve Wertz" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 14:36:26 -0700, Sheldon wrote:
>
>> Melba's Jammin' wrote:
>>
>>> Sweepstakes White Bread (Half recipe - 2 large loaves)
>>> 1 cup milk scalded

>>
>> Why scalded? There's no reason to scald milk anymore, not since the
>> advent of pasteurization.

>
> Pasteurization has nothing to do with it. Scalding milk
> deactivates proteins/enzymes that inhibit gluten formation.
> Scalding brings milk to a higher temperature than any of the
> pasteurization techniques in use by bottlers.
>
> -sw


I believe there are different methods of pasteurization, as you probably
already know; i.e., flash, etc. bringing it up to a certain degree for a
certain length of time.

However, I believe that scalding is 185, isn't it. Or maybe 180.

When I make ice cream, (and it is from raw milk, so it is not pasteurized) I
do bring it up to 185. I don't do this for pasteurization.

Dee Dee



  #17 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.cooking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,463
Default Making bread rise without yeast


"Steve Wertz" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 4 Sep 2007 23:30:56 +0000 (UTC), Steve Pope wrote:
>
>> Steve Wertz > wrote:
>>
>>>Last three-pack of Red Star Yeast I bought was $.79. Enough for
>>>12+ loaves of the no-knead bread recipe.

>>


I prefer SAF Yeast
http://www.pleasanthillgrain.com/gra...g_supplies.asp

It runs $3.50 for 16 oz.
For 4 loaves of bread (18 oz.) I use 1/2 tablespoon yeast.
Dee Dee



  #18 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.cooking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,219
Default Making bread rise without yeast + recipe for white bread

On Sep 4, 9:07 pm, "Dee Dee" > wrote:
> "Steve Wertz" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
> > On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 14:36:26 -0700, Sheldon wrote:

>
> >> Melba's Jammin' wrote:

>
> >>> Sweepstakes White Bread (Half recipe - 2 large loaves)
> >>> 1 cup milk scalded

>
> >> Why scalded? There's no reason to scald milk anymore, not since the
> >> advent of pasteurization.

>
> > Pasteurization has nothing to do with it. Scalding milk
> > deactivates proteins/enzymes that inhibit gluten formation.
> > Scalding brings milk to a higher temperature than any of the
> > pasteurization techniques in use by bottlers.

>
> > -sw

>
> I believe there are different methods of pasteurization, as you probably
> already know; i.e., flash, etc. bringing it up to a certain degree for a
> certain length of time.
>
> However, I believe that scalding is 185, isn't it. Or maybe 180.
>
> When I make ice cream, (and it is from raw milk, so it is not pasteurized) I
> do bring it up to 185. I don't do this for pasteurization.


Understood. So, do you have the raw stuff for fresh uses? It sure
tastes good. The more you cook milk, the less great it is. It is
still good, but the closer to raw, the better. Now, cream, it makes
less difference. It's the milk part that's affected.
>
> Dee Dee


--Bryan

  #19 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.cooking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 212
Default Making bread rise without yeast

In article . com>,
jmm1951 > wrote:

> Being a kind of perpetual advanced beginner when it comes to cooking,
> I am always playing around with different ideas and ways of
> economizing. SInce yeast is kind of expensive (relative to flour and
> salt) when you get it in individual packets, (though cheaper when
> bought at Sam's Club), I thought I would look at ways of using natural
> yeasts, etc.


Why not buy it in bulk and keep it in the freezer? It's dirt cheap that
way, and has the added advantage of reduced packaging (no silly little
envelopes).

Miche

--
In the monastery office --
Before enlightenment: fetch mail, shuffle paper
After enlightenment: fetch mail, shuffle paper
  #20 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.cooking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,883
Default Making bread rise without yeast


"Miche" > wrote in message
...
> In article . com>,
> jmm1951 > wrote:
>
>> Being a kind of perpetual advanced beginner when it comes to cooking,
>> I am always playing around with different ideas and ways of
>> economizing. SInce yeast is kind of expensive (relative to flour and
>> salt) when you get it in individual packets, (though cheaper when
>> bought at Sam's Club), I thought I would look at ways of using natural
>> yeasts, etc.


use sourdough.

Look in rec.food.sourdough you can get a free starter there and learn how
to keep it going




  #21 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.cooking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 212
Default Making bread rise without yeast

In article >, "Ophelia" >
wrote:

> "Miche" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article . com>,
> > jmm1951 > wrote:
> >
> >> Being a kind of perpetual advanced beginner when it comes to cooking,
> >> I am always playing around with different ideas and ways of
> >> economizing. SInce yeast is kind of expensive (relative to flour and
> >> salt) when you get it in individual packets, (though cheaper when
> >> bought at Sam's Club), I thought I would look at ways of using natural
> >> yeasts, etc.

>
> use sourdough.
>
> Look in rec.food.sourdough you can get a free starter there and learn how
> to keep it going


Um, I didn't say any of that.

Miche

--
In the monastery office --
Before enlightenment: fetch mail, shuffle paper
After enlightenment: fetch mail, shuffle paper
  #22 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.cooking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,883
Default Making bread rise without yeast


"Miche" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, "Ophelia" >
> wrote:
>
>> "Miche" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > In article . com>,
>> > jmm1951 > wrote:
>> >
>> >> Being a kind of perpetual advanced beginner when it comes to cooking,
>> >> I am always playing around with different ideas and ways of
>> >> economizing. SInce yeast is kind of expensive (relative to flour and
>> >> salt) when you get it in individual packets, (though cheaper when
>> >> bought at Sam's Club), I thought I would look at ways of using natural
>> >> yeasts, etc.

>>
>> use sourdough.
>>
>> Look in rec.food.sourdough you can get a free starter there and learn
>> how
>> to keep it going

>
> Um, I didn't say any of that.


Oh! well, whoever did say it, I hope you get to read my response

apologies to Miche!


  #23 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.cooking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 654
Default Making bread rise without yeast


"Boron Elgar" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 4 Sep 2007 11:39:41 -0600, "Janet B." >
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Boron Elgar" > wrote in message
. ..
>>> On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 09:29:38 -0700, jmm1951 > wrote:
>>>
>>> A link for reading up on some great recipes that use these
>>> pre-ferments is he
>>>
>>> http://www.theartisan.net/bredfrm.htm
>>>
>>> Another all around good site for bread baking in general is he
>>>
>>> http://www.barryharmon.com/
>>>
>>> Now, for more fun, come on over to alt.bread.recipes.
>>>
>>> Boron
>>>

>>You forgot http://planeguy.mine.nu/bread/ the FAQ for alt.bread.recipes
>>Janet
>>

>
>
> AAK! Slap me with a wet noodle!
>
> Thanks, Janet.....boy, of all things to forget!
>
> Boron

That's far too severe for simple forgetfulness. A tsk, tsk is enough. ;o}
Janet


  #24 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.cooking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,463
Default Making bread rise without yeast


"Miche" > wrote in message
...
> In article . com>,
> jmm1951 > wrote:
>
>> Being a kind of perpetual advanced beginner when it comes to cooking,
>> I am always playing around with different ideas and ways of
>> economizing. SInce yeast is kind of expensive (relative to flour and
>> salt) when you get it in individual packets, (though cheaper when
>> bought at Sam's Club), I thought I would look at ways of using natural
>> yeasts, etc.

>
> Why not buy it in bulk and keep it in the freezer? It's dirt cheap that
> way, and has the added advantage of reduced packaging (no silly little
> envelopes).
>
> Miche



I don't even keep it in the freezer, I refrigerate it and it always keeps
until used up.
Dee Dee


  #25 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.cooking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 22
Default Making bread rise without yeast

On Sep 5, 3:28 am, Miche > wrote:
> In article . com>,
>
> jmm1951 > wrote:
> > Being a kind of perpetual advanced beginner when it comes to cooking,
> > I am always playing around with different ideas and ways of
> > economizing. SInce yeast is kind of expensive (relative to flour and
> > salt) when you get it in individual packets, (though cheaper when
> > bought at Sam's Club), I thought I would look at ways of using natural
> > yeasts, etc.

>
> Why not buy it in bulk and keep it in the freezer? It's dirt cheap that
> way, and has the added advantage of reduced packaging (no silly little
> envelopes).
>
> Miche
>
> --
> In the monastery office --
> Before enlightenment: fetch mail, shuffle paper
> After enlightenment: fetch mail, shuffle paper


Thanks to all who have replied with very helpful information and
hints.

Yes, buying in bulk and freezing is probably the best solution to
pricey yeast in individual packets. If I remember to buy it, that is.
The nearest place (Sam's) is almost 50 miles away and I don't always
remember to buy things when I go into town (infrequently).

Yeast in the individual sachets in the supermarket is not a HUGE cost,
but if you are looking at how much bread you can make with one 5 lbs
bag of flour, then the yeast, if bought in individual sachets, become
a significant part of the cost of production of each loaf. I have also
been making several batches of ginger beer recently and going through
sachets of Red Star like nobody's business.

It is probably true that when you add in the cost of power for baking
that home-made bread is no great economic saving, but you can't buy
decent bread where I live at any price. I guess there is no demand for
it when tortillas are a cheap staple and easy to make.



  #26 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.cooking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,550
Default Making bread rise without yeast

Boron Elgar wrote:

> On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 09:29:38 -0700, jmm1951 > wrote:
>
>
>>Being a kind of perpetual advanced beginner when it comes to cooking,
>>I am always playing around with different ideas and ways of
>>economizing. SInce yeast is kind of expensive (relative to flour and
>>salt) when you get it in individual packets, (though cheaper when
>>bought at Sam's Club), I thought I would look at ways of using natural
>>yeasts, etc.

>
>
> snip starter recipes...
>
> If your hesitation in using yeast is cost only, do go ahead and buy a
> 1lb container from any club store around. The stuff lasts forever and
> a day in the freezer and only forever in the fridge. I used 2.5 yr old
> yeast to make bread over the weekend. No problemo.


Yeah, but unfortunately you can only do that with dry yeasts.
Dry yeasts are okay, but I really prefer fresh yeast. I was
always a Fleischmann's fanatic but I recently switched to Red Star.
Fleischmann's costs about $3 for a large block of fresh, whereas
Red Star is only about $2, here in Pgh.

Kate
--
Kate Connally
“If I were as old as I feel, I’d be dead already.”
Goldfish: “The wholesome snack that smiles back,
Until you bite their heads off.”
What if the hokey pokey really *is* what it's all about?

  #27 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.cooking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,251
Default Making bread rise without yeast

On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 10:45:47 -0400, Kate Connally >
wrote:

>Boron Elgar wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 09:29:38 -0700, jmm1951 > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Being a kind of perpetual advanced beginner when it comes to cooking,
>>>I am always playing around with different ideas and ways of
>>>economizing. SInce yeast is kind of expensive (relative to flour and
>>>salt) when you get it in individual packets, (though cheaper when
>>>bought at Sam's Club), I thought I would look at ways of using natural
>>>yeasts, etc.

>>
>>
>> snip starter recipes...
>>
>> If your hesitation in using yeast is cost only, do go ahead and buy a
>> 1lb container from any club store around. The stuff lasts forever and
>> a day in the freezer and only forever in the fridge. I used 2.5 yr old
>> yeast to make bread over the weekend. No problemo.

>
>Yeah, but unfortunately you can only do that with dry yeasts.
>Dry yeasts are okay, but I really prefer fresh yeast. I was
>always a Fleischmann's fanatic but I recently switched to Red Star.
>Fleischmann's costs about $3 for a large block of fresh, whereas
>Red Star is only about $2, here in Pgh.
>
>Kate


Go into a bakery and ask them to sell you some fresh yeast...which
also freezes well, by the way. I get fresh yeast in one lb blocks.

Boron
  #28 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.cooking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 212
Default Making bread rise without yeast

In article >,
"Dee Dee" > wrote:

> "Miche" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article . com>,
> > jmm1951 > wrote:
> >
> >> Being a kind of perpetual advanced beginner when it comes to cooking,
> >> I am always playing around with different ideas and ways of
> >> economizing. SInce yeast is kind of expensive (relative to flour and
> >> salt) when you get it in individual packets, (though cheaper when
> >> bought at Sam's Club), I thought I would look at ways of using natural
> >> yeasts, etc.

> >
> > Why not buy it in bulk and keep it in the freezer? It's dirt cheap that
> > way, and has the added advantage of reduced packaging (no silly little
> > envelopes).

>
> I don't even keep it in the freezer, I refrigerate it and it always keeps
> until used up.


My last yeast purchase was a 1.5kg (3.3 pound) bucket of dried yeast.
It lives in the freezer for two reasons:

1. It lasts a _lot_ longer that way
2. We have a tiny fridge.

Miche

--
In the monastery office --
Before enlightenment: fetch mail, shuffle paper
After enlightenment: fetch mail, shuffle paper
  #29 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.cooking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 212
Default Making bread rise without yeast

In article >, "Ophelia" >
wrote:

> "Miche" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article >, "Ophelia" >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> "Miche" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> > In article . com>,
> >> > jmm1951 > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Being a kind of perpetual advanced beginner when it comes to cooking,
> >> >> I am always playing around with different ideas and ways of
> >> >> economizing. SInce yeast is kind of expensive (relative to flour and
> >> >> salt) when you get it in individual packets, (though cheaper when
> >> >> bought at Sam's Club), I thought I would look at ways of using natural
> >> >> yeasts, etc.
> >>
> >> use sourdough.
> >>
> >> Look in rec.food.sourdough you can get a free starter there and learn
> >> how
> >> to keep it going

> >
> > Um, I didn't say any of that.

>
> Oh! well, whoever did say it, I hope you get to read my response
>
> apologies to Miche!


All good.

Miche

--
In the monastery office --
Before enlightenment: fetch mail, shuffle paper
After enlightenment: fetch mail, shuffle paper
  #30 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.cooking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,209
Default Making bread rise without yeast


"jmm1951" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Being a kind of perpetual advanced beginner when it comes to cooking,
> I am always playing around with different ideas and ways of
> economizing. SInce yeast is kind of expensive (relative to flour and
> salt) when you get it in individual packets, (though cheaper when
> bought at Sam's Club), I thought I would look at ways of using natural
> yeasts, etc.
>
> An old library book on breads (forget the title) gave me this recipe:
>
> ***
> Witch Yeast
>
> 1 cup mashed potato
> 1/4 cup sugar
> 2 teaspoons salt
> 1 cup warm water
>
> Stir together in jar and cover with cloth. Leave 2 days. Use or sea
> and refrigerate.
>
> ***
>
> So I gave this a whirl and it worked fine. Made a loaf of bread with a
> stirred batter of about 50% white bread flour, 50% rye flour, plus
> some water, salt and caraway seeds. Placed it in baking tin, covered
> it with cling film, and left it on the kitchen counter for a few
> hours. It eventually doubled in size. (My kitchen is a Florida kitchen
> and is not air-conditioned, so if you live in Greenland, you may get
> different results.)
>
> I baked it the normal way. (Pan of steaming H2O in electric oven, 10
> mins at 450, then 25 mins at 375.)
>
> Result perfect loaf, soft crust, chewy, tight crumb, nice flavor,
> except for one thing. IT SMELLS OF POTATOES. Well, duh, silly me, of
> course it does, and it went fine with my lunch today of borsch with
> sour cream and bread and butter.
>
> Now, I have another recipe for a sourdough starter, which is coming
> along fine:
>
> ***
>
> 2 cups rye flour
> 1 1/2 cups warm water
> 1 package dry yeast
> 1 slice onion.
>
> Stir, cover, stand 3 days. Remove onion. Use or seal and refridgerate.
>
> ***
>
> So far this smells wonderful, and I am sure it will work fine and make
> an even better bread, but it still has yeast in it. Anyone have any
> ideas on making a good sourdough starter for a rye loaf without using
> any yeast?
>
>

A bit OT, but I buy Red Star instant yeast in a two lb foil bag at Costco
and keep it frozen.
It lasts for years. It's extremely cheap. <$5/two lb bag.

Kent




  #31 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.cooking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,251
Default Making bread rise without yeast

On Wed, 5 Sep 2007 06:21:55 -0600, "Janet B." >
wrote:

>
>"Boron Elgar" > wrote in message


>>>You forgot http://planeguy.mine.nu/bread/ the FAQ for alt.bread.recipes
>>>Janet
>>>

>>
>>
>> AAK! Slap me with a wet noodle!
>>
>> Thanks, Janet.....boy, of all things to forget!
>>
>> Boron

>That's far too severe for simple forgetfulness. A tsk, tsk is enough. ;o}
>Janet
>


Well, ok, then....

Boron
  #32 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.cooking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,251
Default Making bread rise without yeast

On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 06:37:36 -0700, jmm1951 > wrote:

>
>Yeast in the individual sachets in the supermarket is not a HUGE cost,
>but if you are looking at how much bread you can make with one 5 lbs
>bag of flour, then the yeast, if bought in individual sachets, become
>a significant part of the cost of production of each loaf. I have also
>been making several batches of ginger beer recently and going through
>sachets of Red Star like nobody's business.


You can order yeast on the Internet. If you have to drive 100 miles to
buy in bulk, it's cheaper to pay for shipping.

Besides, don't you need brewer's yeast for ginger beer? That, too is
available online.


>It is probably true that when you add in the cost of power for baking
>that home-made bread is no great economic saving, but you can't buy
>decent bread where I live at any price. I guess there is no demand for
>it when tortillas are a cheap staple and easy to make.


Around here, "artisan" style bread is $2,99 a loaf at the cheapest. It
is often a dollar more than that. At the fancy-pants bakeries, it can
cost even more.

Still, there is nothing as tasty as home baked bread. Here are some
favorite snaps of breads I've made. All of these are sourdough. Alas,
I used to have a lot more photos, but Yahoo ate the bread group that
some buddies and I posted to.

http://i2.tinypic.com/ra2des.jpg

http://i2.tinypic.com/ra2cdv.jpg

http://i2.tinypic.com/s6qc6r.jpg

http://i2.tinypic.com/33es9hy.jpg


If you are baking bread, it is more economical to make multiple
loaves. Like yeast, bread freezes quite well. Your time is put to
better use and it is a more economical use of your oven, too.

If you are hesitant to deal with 5-6 loaves fermenting at the same
time, slow down some of them by putting them into the fridge. It'll
take awhile of playing around, but you 'll get the hang of timing the
rise.

Boron
  #33 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.cooking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,876
Default Making bread rise without yeast

On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 19:28:52 +1200, Miche > wrote:

>Why not buy it in bulk and keep it in the freezer? It's dirt cheap that
>way, and has the added advantage of reduced packaging (no silly little
>envelopes).


But they are soooo easy! What am I supposed to do w/o them? Measure
a teaspoon, a tablespoon.... WHAT, WHAT, WHAT?



--

Ham and eggs.
A day's work for the chicken, a lifetime commitment for the pig.
  #34 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.cooking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,463
Default Making bread rise without yeast


<sf> wrote in message ...
> On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 19:28:52 +1200, Miche > wrote:
>
>>Why not buy it in bulk and keep it in the freezer? It's dirt cheap that
>>way, and has the added advantage of reduced packaging (no silly little
>>envelopes).

>
> But they are soooo easy! What am I supposed to do w/o them? Measure
> a teaspoon, a tablespoon.... WHAT, WHAT, WHAT?
>
>
>

Packaging is not easy for me -- opening those packages that 'jump' out of
your hands or spill some out on the counter as you are tearing/cutting them
open.

Buy your pound of yeast, activated or instant. Put it in a quarter jar with
a tight lid. Put it in the frig or freezer. Date the jar.
Put the rest in another jar and use it.

When I make bread, I have on my table, mis en place, water and oil, (wet);
flour and salt (dry) and YEAST. Each of these ingredients get measured.
Now, there is nothing hard about measuring yeast out of a jar; no harder
than measuring salt out of a container.

Do you actually know how much is in that packet? I do. I've never seen a
recipe that calls for the exact amount that is in this packet. (I'm sure
there are some, but I've never seen it yet.)
A recipe will call for either a packet or it will specify an amount in
teaspoons or tablespoons. For me a packet is too much for a 3-4 cup recipe.
Unless one likes a bread with a yeasty taste.

Ok, you can do it. Use a teaspoon or tablespoon. Forget those outdated
packets!
Dee Dee





Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Regular yeast versus Rapid rise yeast Manda Ruby General Cooking 3 24-11-2009 03:25 AM
problem with 2nd rise (yeast bread) Douglas Frank Baking 4 06-03-2009 03:03 PM
Wine Yeast for Bread Making Pavel314 Winemaking 10 12-08-2008 07:28 PM
My yeast never rise my dough [email protected] Sourdough 13 07-12-2007 05:06 PM
Making bread rise properly Ken Knecht General Cooking 5 19-07-2005 05:12 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:00 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 FoodBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about Food and drink"