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  #1 (permalink)   Report Post  
Bob Travis
 
Posts: n/a
Default Refrigeration question -- Apple Crisp

Please let me know if this is not the right newsgroup for this question.

My mother-in-law says that due to the high sugar content an apple crisp
dessert does not need to be refrigerated for the first day after cooking.
She says that if she made it just after breakfast and serves it just after
supper it will be safe to eat that evening and it needn't be refrigerated
until after it is served after supper.

I said any cooked food will start harboring bacteria just as soon as it
begins to cool, so she should have refrigerated it shortly after breakfast
and after supper she should only have warmed up what she anticipated we
would eat and kept the rest refrigerated.

Well she got all huffy and picked up her apple crisp and went home. My
thinking was, "Good riddens," but my wife asked me if I was absolutely sure
that it needed to be refrigerated and if there was any truth to her mom's
comment about the apple crisp's high sugar content making it so no
refrigeration is necessary the first day after cooking?

I said, "No, I'm not sure and maybe she really knows what she was talking
about." My wife then said, "Well, you better find out because if you are
wrong and she is right then you owe mom an apology." I said, "Okay, I'll get
on the web and find out."

I looked and looked and the best I could find was that apple crisp keeps for
three days WITH refrigeration. I could not find anything which specified how
long it could go without refrigeration on the day it was prepared.

I am hoping someone here knows or can tell me where to look. I want to know
if who was right and who was wrong.

Thanks for a clue.

Bob


  #2 (permalink)   Report Post  
stace
 
Posts: n/a
Default Refrigeration question -- Apple Crisp


"Bob Travis" > wrote in message
. net...
> Please let me know if this is not the right newsgroup for this question.
>
> My mother-in-law says that due to the high sugar content an apple crisp
> dessert does not need to be refrigerated for the first day after cooking.
> She says that if she made it just after breakfast and serves it just after
> supper it will be safe to eat that evening and it needn't be refrigerated
> until after it is served after supper.


Bob, I can't give you a scientific answer, but it's basically apple pie, but
constructed differently.
Very few people in my experience refrigerate apple pie.
I can say without doubt that a day without refrigeration won't kill you.

Stace


  #3 (permalink)   Report Post  
 
Posts: n/a
Default Refrigeration question -- Apple Crisp

<<coming out of lurk mode>>
Dear Mr. Travis,
I have cooked in a few restaurants over a few years when I was younger. I
can tell you that, if there is ANY dairy used in the apple crisp it must be
refrigerated from shortly after it has cooled. This usually means BUTTER,
MILK, CREAM, etc. This was a RULE at one restaurant I worked in that was
known for its desserts. It was then cooled and kept close to frozen to help
keep it from spoiling and to help maintain shape and its quality. When we
were about to serve it to someone it would be placed on a tray, put under
the broiler for less than 2 minutes to bring it up to temperature and
restore its flavor and consistency. It was then served on a plate with ice
cream.
In general, it then can be said to depend on the recipe. If it has dairy
REFRIGERATE, it will probably keep for a week or more. If there is no dairy
it is probably safe out, but I still would not want to chance it, though I
am a bit on the cautious side since I learned about restaurants and their
kitchens first hand.
I hope this helps.
If you need to contact me by email I am at your disposal, I am sure my email
address is easily understood. If you do email me, please put ***APPLE CRISP
in the SUBJECT line so my computer will grab the message as having a
priority that I need to pay attention to and the APPLE CRISP reference will
remind me of where and who the subject comes from.
Bon Apetite
Mike


"Bob Travis" > wrote in message
. net...
> Please let me know if this is not the right newsgroup for this question.
>
> My mother-in-law says that due to the high sugar content an apple crisp
> dessert does not need to be refrigerated for the first day after cooking.
> She says that if she made it just after breakfast and serves it just after
> supper it will be safe to eat that evening and it needn't be refrigerated
> until after it is served after supper.
>
> I said any cooked food will start harboring bacteria just as soon as it
> begins to cool, so she should have refrigerated it shortly after breakfast
> and after supper she should only have warmed up what she anticipated we
> would eat and kept the rest refrigerated.
>
> Well she got all huffy and picked up her apple crisp and went home. My
> thinking was, "Good riddens," but my wife asked me if I was absolutely

sure
> that it needed to be refrigerated and if there was any truth to her mom's
> comment about the apple crisp's high sugar content making it so no
> refrigeration is necessary the first day after cooking?
>
> I said, "No, I'm not sure and maybe she really knows what she was talking
> about." My wife then said, "Well, you better find out because if you are
> wrong and she is right then you owe mom an apology." I said, "Okay, I'll

get
> on the web and find out."
>
> I looked and looked and the best I could find was that apple crisp keeps

for
> three days WITH refrigeration. I could not find anything which specified

how
> long it could go without refrigeration on the day it was prepared.
>
> I am hoping someone here knows or can tell me where to look. I want to

know
> if who was right and who was wrong.
>
> Thanks for a clue.
>
> Bob
>
>



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.525 / Virus Database: 322 - Release Date: 10/9/03


  #4 (permalink)   Report Post  
PENMART01
 
Posts: n/a
Default Refrigeration question -- Apple Crisp

"Bob IMBECILE Travisty" writes:

>Please let me know if this is not the right newsgroup for this question.
>
>My mother-in-law says that due to the high sugar content an apple crisp
>dessert does not need to be refrigerated for the first day after cooking.
>She says that if she made it just after breakfast and serves it just after
>supper it will be safe to eat that evening and it needn't be refrigerated
>until after it is served after supper.
>
>I said any cooked food will start harboring bacteria just as soon as it
>begins to cool, so she should have refrigerated it shortly after breakfast
>and after supper she should only have warmed up what she anticipated we
>would eat and kept the rest refrigerated.
>
>Well she got all huffy and picked up her apple crisp and went home. My
>thinking was, "Good riddens," but my wife asked me if I was absolutely sure
>that it needed to be refrigerated and if there was any truth to her mom's
>comment about the apple crisp's high sugar content making it so no
>refrigeration is necessary the first day after cooking?
>
>I said, "No, I'm not sure and maybe she really knows what she was talking
>about." My wife then said, "Well, you better find out because if you are
>wrong and she is right then you owe mom an apology." I said, "Okay, I'll get
>on the web and find out."
>
>I looked and looked and the best I could find was that apple crisp keeps for
>three days WITH refrigeration. I could not find anything which specified how
>long it could go without refrigeration on the day it was prepared.
>
>I am hoping someone here knows or can tell me where to look. I want to know
>if who was right and who was wrong.
>
>Thanks for a clue.


Not only high sugar content... it's *baked*, in an OVEN, hotter and longer than
surgical instruments are autoclaved... that pie is friggin' sterile (like your
pea brain). You don't have one tenth your M-I-L's IQ... and she's only a 25˘
ho. Now her daughter, she's really dumb, blind, ugli as sin... hasta be, the
retard married the likes of you.


---= BOYCOTT FRENCH--GERMAN (belgium) =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
Sheldon
````````````
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."

  #5 (permalink)   Report Post  
Nancy Young
 
Posts: n/a
Default Refrigeration question -- Apple Crisp

Bob Travis wrote:

>
> My mother-in-law says that due to the high sugar content an apple crisp
> dessert does not need to be refrigerated for the first day after cooking.


I'm not sure it would even cross my mind to refrigerate it. I'd
eat it without a problem. Bet she's done that for longer than
you've lived and ... she's still here.

nancy


  #6 (permalink)   Report Post  
Jack Schidt®
 
Posts: n/a
Default Refrigeration question -- Apple Crisp


"Bob Travis" > wrote in message
. net...
> Please let me know if this is not the right newsgroup for this question.
>
> My mother-in-law says that due to the high sugar content an apple crisp
> dessert does not need to be refrigerated for the first day after cooking.
> She says that if she made it just after breakfast and serves it just after
> supper it will be safe to eat that evening and it needn't be refrigerated
> until after it is served after supper.


STOP RIGHT THERE! You're in the wrong newsgroup, so far.

Try he alt.broom.for.mummy

>
> I said any cooked food will start harboring bacteria just as soon as it
> begins to cool, so she should have refrigerated it shortly after breakfast
> and after supper she should only have warmed up what she anticipated we
> would eat and kept the rest refrigerated.


nope. try rec.don.quixote

>
> Well she got all huffy and picked up her apple crisp and went home. My
> thinking was, "Good riddens," but my wife asked me if I was absolutely

sure
> that it needed to be refrigerated and if there was any truth to her mom's
> comment about the apple crisp's high sugar content making it so no
> refrigeration is necessary the first day after cooking?


ouch. maybe alt.picnic.food.left.out.nobody.died

>
> I said, "No, I'm not sure and maybe she really knows what she was talking
> about." My wife then said, "Well, you better find out because if you are
> wrong and she is right then you owe mom an apology." I said, "Okay, I'll

get
> on the web and find out."


wow! rec.research.then.grovel

>
> I looked and looked and the best I could find was that apple crisp keeps

for
> three days WITH refrigeration. I could not find anything which specified

how
> long it could go without refrigeration on the day it was prepared.


hmmm....a curve ball. ok, how bout alt.eat.it.and.see

>
> I am hoping someone here knows or can tell me where to look. I want to

know
> if who was right and who was wrong.
>
> Thanks for a clue.
>


nah, that's alt.clues.r.us

What's in apple crisp? apples, brown sugar, oatmeal, maybe a little butter?
It could have sat out on the counter until dinner without major penalty.
You can leave a loaf of bread out, no? or in a breadbox?

Sorry, Bob, put on the collar and beg. Find out how at
alt.binaries.pictures.mothers.in.law

Jack Outlaws


  #7 (permalink)   Report Post  
Bob Travis
 
Posts: n/a
Default Refrigeration question -- Apple Crisp

Well, Nancy, the reason I asked is because growing up my dad was a
microbiologist / quality control supervisor at a food plant so we were
always more germ conscious than most people. When my wife's mom grew up her
dad was a farmer, they had no electricity, and for personal hygiene they
used an outhouse. In the 12 years we've been married both my wife and her
mom complain of stomach aches far more often than I do. Her mom even wonders
why her poor dog is always getting sick too and it never seems to dawn on
her that maybe it's because she will prepare a meat dish for him early in
the morning and never even think about refrigerating it until late in the
day. And God forbid I should say anything to her, she'd get all huffy like
she did tonight and let me know she didn't even have a refrigerator when she
was growing up. I didn't want to poor vinegar on the wound and ask her how
much time she spent in the outhouse.

That is why I thought possibly her "high sugar" explanation might be
plausible, but I thought I'd better ask someone that knows more about
cooking and refrigeration than I know.

All I can tell you for sure is my wife and I lived with her mom the first
two years we were married and after we moved out and began cooking more of
our own meals I rarely got stomach aches and associated problems again, but
when we lived with her mom they were a fairly regular occurrence. Every time
we sat down to dinner I felt like I was playing Russian Roulette. Will
tonight be another one of those nights in the john, or is everything going
to be okay this time. The general rule was if we went shopping together and
fixed dinner soon after we got home, usually everything was okay. But if we
were having leftovers the best I could do was say a prayer and hope for the
best.

Bob

P.S. There is something about elderly people and salt too. Just as they are
getting to the age where high sodium intake should be a consideration, it
seems they use about 5x more salt than seems reasonable, so much salt that
even if you're eating the brown off her fried chicken it tastes more like
the crumbs at the bottom of a very salty bag of potato chips.



"Nancy Young" > wrote in message
...
> Bob Travis wrote:
>
> >
> > My mother-in-law says that due to the high sugar content an apple crisp
> > dessert does not need to be refrigerated for the first day after

cooking.
>
> I'm not sure it would even cross my mind to refrigerate it. I'd
> eat it without a problem. Bet she's done that for longer than
> you've lived and ... she's still here.
>
> nancy



  #8 (permalink)   Report Post  
Netguy
 
Posts: n/a
Default Refrigeration question -- Apple Crisp

In article > ,
says...
> Please let me know if this is not the right newsgroup for this question.
>
> My mother-in-law says that due to the high sugar content an apple crisp
> dessert does not need to be refrigerated for the first day after cooking.
> She says that if she made it just after breakfast and serves it just after
> supper it will be safe to eat that evening and it needn't be refrigerated
> until after it is served after supper.
>
> I said any cooked food will start harboring bacteria just as soon as it
> begins to cool, so she should have refrigerated it shortly after breakfast
> and after supper she should only have warmed up what she anticipated we
> would eat and kept the rest refrigerated.
>
> Well she got all huffy and picked up her apple crisp and went home. My
> thinking was, "Good riddens," but my wife asked me if I was absolutely sure
> that it needed to be refrigerated and if there was any truth to her mom's
> comment about the apple crisp's high sugar content making it so no
> refrigeration is necessary the first day after cooking?
>
> I said, "No, I'm not sure and maybe she really knows what she was talking
> about." My wife then said, "Well, you better find out because if you are
> wrong and she is right then you owe mom an apology." I said, "Okay, I'll get
> on the web and find out."
>
> I looked and looked and the best I could find was that apple crisp keeps for
> three days WITH refrigeration. I could not find anything which specified how
> long it could go without refrigeration on the day it was prepared.
>
> I am hoping someone here knows or can tell me where to look. I want to know
> if who was right and who was wrong.
>
> Thanks for a clue.
>
> Bob


Gosh, I never, ever refrigerate any dessert made with sugar. On the
other hand, those made with Splenda get the cool down - quick.

>
>
>

  #9 (permalink)   Report Post  
Bob Travis
 
Posts: n/a
Default Refrigeration question -- Apple Crisp

Well, Jack, I see in a round about way, the majority of the people here take
my mother-in-law's side, presumably because she's past seventy and still
here to talk about it, or you just know more about apple crisp than I do. My
initial thought was, better safe than sorry, but I have to admit it tasted
pretty good when it first came out of the oven, maybe it wouldn't be so bad
now. I think the group has fairly well convinced me that it's not a lot
different than apple pie and I know there have been many occasions where I
have eaten an apple pie several days old that had never been refrigerated.

Maybe I was overdoing it a bit when I began making a big deal about it not
being refrigerated. Well, did you ever see the TV show "Monk"? We could
have been twins except I'm the real thing and he's just an excellent actor
reading a very funny script. When I was a kid if you wanted a drink of my
coke or a bite of my ice cream I would take a big chug or a big bite and let
you have the rest. I'd say something like, "I'm full," or "I've had enough,"
while thinking what a ******* you were for having the gall to ask for a bite
or a swallow, then think I was going to keep eating it after you had some. I
soon figured out that if I was going to keep any friends I had to buy them
one of their own oe just make sure I never ate around them any more.

Bob

"Jack Schidt®" > wrote in message
m...
>
> "Bob Travis" > wrote in message
> . net...
> > Please let me know if this is not the right newsgroup for this question.
> >
> > My mother-in-law says that due to the high sugar content an apple crisp
> > dessert does not need to be refrigerated for the first day after

cooking.
> > She says that if she made it just after breakfast and serves it just

after
> > supper it will be safe to eat that evening and it needn't be

refrigerated
> > until after it is served after supper.

>
> STOP RIGHT THERE! You're in the wrong newsgroup, so far.
>
> Try he alt.broom.for.mummy
>
> >
> > I said any cooked food will start harboring bacteria just as soon as it
> > begins to cool, so she should have refrigerated it shortly after

breakfast
> > and after supper she should only have warmed up what she anticipated we
> > would eat and kept the rest refrigerated.

>
> nope. try rec.don.quixote
>
> >
> > Well she got all huffy and picked up her apple crisp and went home. My
> > thinking was, "Good riddens," but my wife asked me if I was absolutely

> sure
> > that it needed to be refrigerated and if there was any truth to her

mom's
> > comment about the apple crisp's high sugar content making it so no
> > refrigeration is necessary the first day after cooking?

>
> ouch. maybe alt.picnic.food.left.out.nobody.died
>
> >
> > I said, "No, I'm not sure and maybe she really knows what she was

talking
> > about." My wife then said, "Well, you better find out because if you are
> > wrong and she is right then you owe mom an apology." I said, "Okay, I'll

> get
> > on the web and find out."

>
> wow! rec.research.then.grovel
>
> >
> > I looked and looked and the best I could find was that apple crisp keeps

> for
> > three days WITH refrigeration. I could not find anything which specified

> how
> > long it could go without refrigeration on the day it was prepared.

>
> hmmm....a curve ball. ok, how bout alt.eat.it.and.see
>
> >
> > I am hoping someone here knows or can tell me where to look. I want to

> know
> > if who was right and who was wrong.
> >
> > Thanks for a clue.
> >

>
> nah, that's alt.clues.r.us
>
> What's in apple crisp? apples, brown sugar, oatmeal, maybe a little

butter?
> It could have sat out on the counter until dinner without major penalty.
> You can leave a loaf of bread out, no? or in a breadbox?
>
> Sorry, Bob, put on the collar and beg. Find out how at
> alt.binaries.pictures.mothers.in.law
>
> Jack Outlaws
>
>



  #10 (permalink)   Report Post  
Bob Travis
 
Posts: n/a
Default Refrigeration question -- Apple Crisp

Gosh, if that WAIS was right at 131 and MILs is ten times higher (1310) I am
living with someone smarter than Einstein, Thanks so much for poiting this
out. With big words like "autoclaving" in your vocabulary you must really be
smart too. Despite your incredible condescension I am of the opinion your
message was one of the best one's I've read here tonight. It was definitely
amusing and I bet you had great fun clicking the "send" button, but I'm glad
you did because what I got out of it made sense to me and I guess I was just
barely smart enough to grasp that fact.

Bob IMBECILE Travisty (oh, what a great play on words) <BFG>


"PENMART01" > wrote in message
...
> "Bob IMBECILE Travisty" writes:
>
> >Please let me know if this is not the right newsgroup for this question.
> >
> >My mother-in-law says that due to the high sugar content an apple crisp
> >dessert does not need to be refrigerated for the first day after cooking.
> >She says that if she made it just after breakfast and serves it just

after
> >supper it will be safe to eat that evening and it needn't be refrigerated
> >until after it is served after supper.
> >
> >I said any cooked food will start harboring bacteria just as soon as it
> >begins to cool, so she should have refrigerated it shortly after

breakfast
> >and after supper she should only have warmed up what she anticipated we
> >would eat and kept the rest refrigerated.
> >
> >Well she got all huffy and picked up her apple crisp and went home. My
> >thinking was, "Good riddens," but my wife asked me if I was absolutely

sure
> >that it needed to be refrigerated and if there was any truth to her mom's
> >comment about the apple crisp's high sugar content making it so no
> >refrigeration is necessary the first day after cooking?
> >
> >I said, "No, I'm not sure and maybe she really knows what she was talking
> >about." My wife then said, "Well, you better find out because if you are
> >wrong and she is right then you owe mom an apology." I said, "Okay, I'll

get
> >on the web and find out."
> >
> >I looked and looked and the best I could find was that apple crisp keeps

for
> >three days WITH refrigeration. I could not find anything which specified

how
> >long it could go without refrigeration on the day it was prepared.
> >
> >I am hoping someone here knows or can tell me where to look. I want to

know
> >if who was right and who was wrong.
> >
> >Thanks for a clue.

>
> Not only high sugar content... it's *baked*, in an OVEN, hotter and longer

than
> surgical instruments are autoclaved... that pie is friggin' sterile (like

your
> pea brain). You don't have one tenth your M-I-L's IQ... and she's only a

25˘
> ho. Now her daughter, she's really dumb, blind, ugli as sin... hasta be,

the
> retard married the likes of you.
>
>
> ---= BOYCOTT FRENCH--GERMAN (belgium) =---
> ---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
> Sheldon
> ````````````
> "Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."
>





  #11 (permalink)   Report Post  
Bob Travis
 
Posts: n/a
Default Refrigeration question -- Apple Crisp

Thanks, Netguy.

Is sugar a natural preservative? Hmmmn, candied pineapple, cherry pie,
cookies, ...maybe you've got something there.

Bob


"Netguy" > wrote in message
...
> In article > ,
> says...
> > Please let me know if this is not the right newsgroup for this question.
> >
> > My mother-in-law says that due to the high sugar content an apple crisp
> > dessert does not need to be refrigerated for the first day after

cooking.
> > She says that if she made it just after breakfast and serves it just

after
> > supper it will be safe to eat that evening and it needn't be

refrigerated
> > until after it is served after supper.
> >
> > I said any cooked food will start harboring bacteria just as soon as it
> > begins to cool, so she should have refrigerated it shortly after

breakfast
> > and after supper she should only have warmed up what she anticipated we
> > would eat and kept the rest refrigerated.
> >
> > Well she got all huffy and picked up her apple crisp and went home. My
> > thinking was, "Good riddens," but my wife asked me if I was absolutely

sure
> > that it needed to be refrigerated and if there was any truth to her

mom's
> > comment about the apple crisp's high sugar content making it so no
> > refrigeration is necessary the first day after cooking?
> >
> > I said, "No, I'm not sure and maybe she really knows what she was

talking
> > about." My wife then said, "Well, you better find out because if you are
> > wrong and she is right then you owe mom an apology." I said, "Okay, I'll

get
> > on the web and find out."
> >
> > I looked and looked and the best I could find was that apple crisp keeps

for
> > three days WITH refrigeration. I could not find anything which specified

how
> > long it could go without refrigeration on the day it was prepared.
> >
> > I am hoping someone here knows or can tell me where to look. I want to

know
> > if who was right and who was wrong.
> >
> > Thanks for a clue.
> >
> > Bob

>
> Gosh, I never, ever refrigerate any dessert made with sugar. On the
> other hand, those made with Splenda get the cool down - quick.
>
> >
> >
> >



  #12 (permalink)   Report Post  
Sheryl Rosen
 
Posts: n/a
Default Refrigeration question -- Apple Crisp

in article , stace at wrote
on 10/15/03 9:00 PM:

>
> "Bob Travis" > wrote in message
> . net...
>> Please let me know if this is not the right newsgroup for this question.
>>
>> My mother-in-law says that due to the high sugar content an apple crisp
>> dessert does not need to be refrigerated for the first day after cooking.
>> She says that if she made it just after breakfast and serves it just after
>> supper it will be safe to eat that evening and it needn't be refrigerated
>> until after it is served after supper.

>
> Bob, I can't give you a scientific answer, but it's basically apple pie, but
> constructed differently.
> Very few people in my experience refrigerate apple pie.
> I can say without doubt that a day without refrigeration won't kill you.
>
> Stace
>
>


once it's cut into, it requires refrigeration.

I would leave it on the counter for the few hours between baking and
serving, and not worry about refrigeration until after it's cut into.

I think chilling it would change the texture too much. And it would taste
better at room temp, anyway.

I think what is done in a restaurant, because there is liability involved,
and because you are serving the public, is overly cautious, and necessarily
so. In a restaurant kitchen, better to err on the side of over-cautious.
However, I think people today are bacteria-phobic, and to the detriment of
their immune systems. Your body is equipped to fight off germs. Immune
systems are like muscles, making them work makes them stronger! If you
don't allow yourself to be exposed to germs, your body won't know how to
fight them when it gets exposed accidentally.

I'm not saying to take chances and eat that tuna sandwich that's been
sitting out on the counter for 2 days, that's just crazy. Common sense needs
to prevail.

but sanitizing everything in your path is one sure way to make sure you get
sick at the slightest exposure.

That's a huge reason why I am against the proliferation of "anti-bacterial"
dishwashing detergent, cleaning solutions (such as Fantastik), hand soap,
etc. Washing your hands in hot soapy water will kill most of the harmful
bacteria on your hands. Using those antibacterial soaps not only kills off
what the regular soap misses, it also kills off the beneficial bacteria on
your skin.

  #13 (permalink)   Report Post  
Dawn
 
Posts: n/a
Default Refrigeration question -- Apple Crisp

Bob Travis wrote:

> I said any cooked food will start harboring bacteria just as soon as it
> begins to cool, so she should have refrigerated it shortly after breakfast


Probably it does, once it's cooled. But does enough grow in 12 hours to
make you sick?

I leave apple crisp out for days, if it lasts that long. I do cover it,
though, with plastic or the casserole lid.


> comment about the apple crisp's high sugar content making it so no
> refrigeration is necessary the first day after cooking?


I don't know that high sugar content does anything. But if you practice
general hygeine and cleanliness (washing hands, wiping off counters,
refridgerating raw meats, not having small 6 legged pests) you probably
are not at risk from day old bakery goods.

I wouldn't leave it uncovered outside, where pets could get it, or allow
people to stick their fingers into it.



Dawn


  #14 (permalink)   Report Post  
Bob Pastorio
 
Posts: n/a
Default Refrigeration question -- Apple Crisp

Dawn wrote:

> Bob Travis wrote:
>
>> I said any cooked food will start harboring bacteria just as soon as it
>> begins to cool, so she should have refrigerated it shortly after
>> breakfast

>
> Probably it does, once it's cooled. But does enough grow in 12 hours to
> make you sick?


There are two different kinds of bacteria to consider; pathogens that
can hurt you and spoilage bacteria that will merely cause
deterioration in quality of the product.

Pathogens aren't going to find much to feed on here. Baking it has
essentially sterilized it (not fully, but close enough).

Generally, pathogens do their worst with proteins as fuel. Not much
protein in apple pie.

> I leave apple crisp out for days, if it lasts that long. I do cover it,
> though, with plastic or the casserole lid.
>
>> comment about the apple crisp's high sugar content making it so no
>> refrigeration is necessary the first day after cooking?


Sugar is bacteriostatic.

> I don't know that high sugar content does anything. But if you practice
> general hygeine and cleanliness (washing hands, wiping off counters,
> refridgerating raw meats, not having small 6 legged pests) you probably
> are not at risk from day old bakery goods.
>
> I wouldn't leave it uncovered outside, where pets could get it, or allow
> people to stick their fingers into it.


Amen.

Leave it on the counter, covered.

Pastorio


  #15 (permalink)   Report Post  
Lucian Wischik
 
Posts: n/a
Default Refrigeration question -- Apple Crisp

Bob Travis wrote:
>Well she got all huffy and picked up her apple crisp and went home.
>... "if you are wrong and she is right then you owe mom an apology."


I think that in these sorts of family situations you should apologise
even if you're in the right. No one changes their ways if it means
loosing face, and family discord isn't worth it.

--
Lucian


  #16 (permalink)   Report Post  
Jack Schidt®
 
Posts: n/a
Default Refrigeration question -- Apple Crisp


"Bob Travis" > wrote in message
news:%enjb.568670$cF.244110@rwcrnsc53...
> Well, Jack, I see in a round about way, the majority of the people here

take
> my mother-in-law's side, presumably because she's past seventy and still
> here to talk about it, or you just know more about apple crisp than I do.

My
> initial thought was, better safe than sorry, but I have to admit it tasted
> pretty good when it first came out of the oven, maybe it wouldn't be so

bad
> now. I think the group has fairly well convinced me that it's not a lot
> different than apple pie and I know there have been many occasions where I
> have eaten an apple pie several days old that had never been refrigerated.


yeahbut, didja laugh?

>
> Maybe I was overdoing it a bit when I began making a big deal about it not
> being refrigerated. Well, did you ever see the TV show "Monk"? We could
> have been twins except I'm the real thing and he's just an excellent actor
> reading a very funny script. When I was a kid if you wanted a drink of my
> coke or a bite of my ice cream I would take a big chug or a big bite and

let
> you have the rest. I'd say something like, "I'm full," or "I've had

enough,"
> while thinking what a ******* you were for having the gall to ask for a

bite
> or a swallow, then think I was going to keep eating it after you had some.

I
> soon figured out that if I was going to keep any friends I had to buy them
> one of their own oe just make sure I never ate around them any more.
>
> Bob
>


Well, you did come to the right place and glad we could set your mind at
ease. It's better to err on the side of safety when it comes to food and no
harm would have come to the apple crisp if it were refrigerated. Now if she
wanted to leave the tuna-egg casserole out on the counter overnight...

Jack Hygiene


  #17 (permalink)   Report Post  
Frogleg
 
Posts: n/a
Default Refrigeration question -- Apple Crisp

On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 00:52:43 GMT, "Bob Travis" >
wrote:

>Please let me know if this is not the right newsgroup for this question.


You're well within the limits.
>
>My mother-in-law says that due to the high sugar content an apple crisp
>dessert does not need to be refrigerated for the first day after cooking.
>She says that if she made it just after breakfast and serves it just after
>supper it will be safe to eat that evening and it needn't be refrigerated
>until after it is served after supper.


I agree.
>
>I said any cooked food will start harboring bacteria just as soon as it
>begins to cool, so she should have refrigerated it shortly after breakfast
>and after supper she should only have warmed up what she anticipated we
>would eat and kept the rest refrigerated.


Apple crisp -- apples, sugar, flour, butter, spices, salt -- *all*
ingredients that are usually (or at least sometime, in the case of
butter) stored at room temperature. Further, the combination has been
baked for a fair amount of time at a relatively high temperature.

Food safety guidelines (below 40F or above 140F) apply to foods that
are prime sites for bacterial multiplication -- meat, eggs, dairy
(butter is mostly fat) and that in themselves may carry a risk of
harboring things like e-coli and salmonella. You don't refrigerate a
bag of pretzels after opening, or candy or cereal or crackers or
cookies.

>
>Well she got all huffy and picked up her apple crisp and went home.


Well, there's your answer. You definitely lose. :-)

>I said, "No, I'm not sure and maybe she really knows what she was talking
>about." My wife then said, "Well, you better find out because if you are
>wrong and she is right then you owe mom an apology." I said, "Okay, I'll get
>on the web and find out."


MIL may not have been correct in the idea that sugar prevents
bacterial invasion, but she *was* right that refrigeration isn't at
all necessary for the apple crisp. Or pie or cake or peanut butter or
toast.

>I looked and looked and the best I could find was that apple crisp keeps for
>three days WITH refrigeration. I could not find anything which specified how
>long it could go without refrigeration on the day it was prepared.


After 3 days, in or out of a refrigerator, apple crisp will be
relatively unappetizing.

Almost *all* foodstuffs will eventually succumb to mold, critter
infestation (if not tightly sealed, and sometimes even then),
rancidity, or bacterial growth. Rapid refrigeration of "cooked foods"
applies to meats, dairy-rich sauces, custards and whatnot with eggs,
soups or broths with meat ingredients, etc. Look in your local grocery
store for unrefrigerated baked goods of all sorts.

>I am hoping someone here knows or can tell me where to look. I want to know
>if who was right and who was wrong.


You are wrong. You could investigate:

http://vm.cfsan.fda.gov/list.html

Even if you were right, you'd be wrong. You lost the apple crisp and
irritated your MIL. If you were concerned, you could have refrigerated
after she left.
  #18 (permalink)   Report Post  
Frogleg
 
Posts: n/a
Default Refrigeration question -- Apple Crisp

On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 01:58:50 GMT, "Bob Travis" >
wrote:

>Well, Nancy, the reason I asked is because growing up my dad was a
>microbiologist / quality control supervisor at a food plant so we were
>always more germ conscious than most people.


Commercial food production *must* have the most stringent rules and do
its best to reduce the tiniest possibility of food-borne contaminents.
Both by law (now) and from the expense of dealing with lawsuits.

>When my wife's mom grew up her
>dad was a farmer, they had no electricity, and for personal hygiene they
>used an outhouse. In the 12 years we've been married both my wife and her
>mom complain of stomach aches far more often than I do.


Can't comment on MIL's environment, but if you and your wife eat the
same food, her stomach aches may be the result of something other than
food poisoning.

>Her mom even wonders
>why her poor dog is always getting sick too and it never seems to dawn on
>her that maybe it's because she will prepare a meat dish for him early in
>the morning and never even think about refrigerating it until late in the
>day.


This is an entirely different question than the apple crisp. And also
a problem with *many* possible variables. Day-old dog food among them.

>And God forbid I should say anything to her, she'd get all huffy like
>she did tonight and let me know she didn't even have a refrigerator when she
>was growing up. I didn't want to poor vinegar on the wound and ask her how
>much time she spent in the outhouse.


My grandmother said she bathed once a week and felt hot baths were
"weakening." I listened to and enjoyed the stories and old-timey lore.
I didn't stop daily showers or hot baths. Nor did I challange her
notions.

>That is why I thought possibly her "high sugar" explanation might be
>plausible, but I thought I'd better ask someone that knows more about
>cooking and refrigeration than I know.


I've never researched sugar as a preservative and bacterial
preventive. Opened (but not open) jars of jam seem to last a long
time. OTOH, I've seen mold on opened jars that have been refrigerated.
And even on honey, so I'm guessing that sugar isn't a cure.

>All I can tell you for sure is my wife and I lived with her mom the first
>two years we were married and after we moved out and began cooking more of
>our own meals I rarely got stomach aches and associated problems again, but
>when we lived with her mom they were a fairly regular occurrence. Every time
>we sat down to dinner I felt like I was playing Russian Roulette. Will
>tonight be another one of those nights in the john, or is everything going
>to be okay this time. The general rule was if we went shopping together and
>fixed dinner soon after we got home, usually everything was okay. But if we
>were having leftovers the best I could do was say a prayer and hope for the
>best.


Sometimes "let us do the cooking" works. Sometimes not. As the story
unfolds, MIL may indeed be dicing with death in food prep. It's rather
difficult to change another's personal habits of any sort.

>P.S. There is something about elderly people and salt too. Just as they are
>getting to the age where high sodium intake should be a consideration, it
>seems they use about 5x more salt than seems reasonable, so much salt that
>even if you're eating the brown off her fried chicken it tastes more like
>the crumbs at the bottom of a very salty bag of potato chips.


As I understand it, taste sensations degrade with age just like
hearing and eyesight. So if salt can't be readily detected, the answer
for many is more salt. Health advisors say the remedy is to introduce
more flavorings of other sorts -- herbs & spices -- to "ginger up"
foods. You might try some "we'll bring the main dish" situations
rather than suffering salt chicken.
  #19 (permalink)   Report Post  
Frogleg
 
Posts: n/a
Default Refrigeration book question -- was Apple crisp

There is a recent book about the history of an American enterprise to
ship and sell ice, including sending it to India, in the late 1800s.
It was read on BBC radio a couple of months ago and I heard part of
it. Search as I may, I can't find the book titile. I'd really like to
read the whole book.
  #20 (permalink)   Report Post  
ConnieG999
 
Posts: n/a
Default Refrigeration question -- Apple Crisp

"Bob Travis" > writes:

>Her mom even wonders
>why her poor dog is always getting sick too and it never seems to dawn on
>her that maybe it's because she will prepare a meat dish for him early in
>the morning and never even think about refrigerating it until late in the
>day.


This one doesn't apply, Bob. Dogs' digestive systems aren't subject to the same
dire consequences of spoiled meat than humans'. They can eat thoroughly rotten
meat without any problem. They can handle bacterial loads that would kill us,
without blinking an eye, because their digestive system is different. It's a
matter of enzymes. So, there's probably another reason why the dog is sick -
not one-day-old meat.


Connie
************************************************** ***
My mind is like a steel...um, whatchamacallit.



  #21 (permalink)   Report Post  
PENMART01
 
Posts: n/a
Default Refrigeration question -- Apple Crisp

"Boob IMBECILE Travisty" writes:
>
>Boob IMBECILE Travisty <snip>
>
>"PENMART01" wrote:
>> "Boob IMBECILE Travisty" writes:


Yet another LYING ******* claims to have me killfiled... DUH!

Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. . . .




---= BOYCOTT FRENCH--GERMAN (belgium) =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
Sheldon
````````````
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."

  #22 (permalink)   Report Post  
PENMART01
 
Posts: n/a
Default Refrigeration question -- Apple Crisp

"Boob Travisty" writes:
>
>Well, Nancy, the reason I asked is because growing up my dad was a
>microbiologist / quality control supervisor at a food plant


You sure didn't inherit any of those genes... you dumb shit... in fact you
don't know who your father is, your 25˘ whoring momma doesn't even know.

Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. . . .


---= BOYCOTT FRENCH--GERMAN (belgium) =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
Sheldon
````````````
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."

  #23 (permalink)   Report Post  
PENMART01
 
Posts: n/a
Default Refrigeration question -- Apple Crisp

In article >, Sheryl Rosen
> writes:

>stace at wrote
>on 10/15/03 9:00 PM:
>
>>
>> "Bob Travis" > wrote in message
>> . net...
>>> Please let me know if this is not the right newsgroup for this question.
>>>
>>> My mother-in-law says that due to the high sugar content an apple crisp
>>> dessert does not need to be refrigerated for the first day after cooking.
>>> She says that if she made it just after breakfast and serves it just after
>>> supper it will be safe to eat that evening and it needn't be refrigerated
>>> until after it is served after supper.

>>
>> Bob, I can't give you a scientific answer, but it's basically apple pie,

>but
>> constructed differently.
>> Very few people in my experience refrigerate apple pie.
>> I can say without doubt that a day without refrigeration won't kill you.
>>
>> Stace
>>
>>

>
>once it's cut into, it requires refrigeration.


Nope, so long as the knife is relatively clean (ie. not been used to schmear
tuna salad) most baked goods need no refrigeration, cut or uncut... simply
cover loosely (not air-tite) to retard staling and mold. In fact baked goods,
especially fruit pies, should NEVER be refrigerated, makes em just plain taste
lousy, and refrigerated they'd require air-tite wrap to prevent absorbing odors
but then they'd go all soggy, blech! Btw, 2-3 day old slab of pie can easily
be refreshed to near just baked by reheating in an oven for a few minutes... in
fact couple day old fruit pie is often mo-better reheated then fresh baked,
just like reheated stew.

I mean like how many weeks yoose planning to leave this pie out on the counter?


---= BOYCOTT FRENCH--GERMAN (belgium) =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
Sheldon
````````````
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."

  #24 (permalink)   Report Post  
Nancy Dooley
 
Posts: n/a
Default Refrigeration question -- Apple Crisp

"Bob Travis" > wrote in message

> All I can tell you for sure is my wife and I lived with her mom the first
> two years we were married and after we moved out and began cooking more of
> our own meals I rarely got stomach aches and associated problems again, but
> when we lived with her mom they were a fairly regular occurrence. Every time
> we sat down to dinner I felt like I was playing Russian Roulette. Will
> tonight be another one of those nights in the john, or is everything going
> to be okay this time. The general rule was if we went shopping together and
> fixed dinner soon after we got home, usually everything was okay. But if we
> were having leftovers the best I could do was say a prayer and hope for the
> best.


I find myself more sensitive to certain things than other people - if
the ground beef is more than a day old when I cook it, I'm taking a
chance on spending a lot of time in the bathroom - OTOH, others in my
family don't have that problem.

My ex-in-laws (both died of old age) used to fry chicken and leave it
out on the back of the cooling stove all night - never had any
problems. I couldn't/wouldn't do that on a bet. They probably had
more tolerance built up over the years.
>
> Bob
>
> P.S. There is something about elderly people and salt too. Just as they are
> getting to the age where high sodium intake should be a consideration, it
> seems they use about 5x more salt than seems reasonable, so much salt that
> even if you're eating the brown off her fried chicken it tastes more like
> the crumbs at the bottom of a very salty bag of potato chips.


As aging continues, most people lose some of their senses of smell and
taste - they add more salt because they can't taste less salt, so to
speak.

N.

P.S. I always refrigerate apple crisp and apple pie after it's served
- I wouldn't worry about it sitting out from baking to dinner - BUT,
neither has any dairy (or eggs) in it (except butter, and that doesn't
count ;-)
  #25 (permalink)   Report Post  
Puester
 
Posts: n/a
Default Refrigeration question -- Apple Crisp

Bob Travis wrote:
>
> All I can tell you for sure is my wife and I lived with her mom the first
> two years we were married and after we moved out and began cooking more of
> our own meals I rarely got stomach aches and associated problems again, but
> when we lived with her mom they were a fairly regular occurrence. Every time
> we sat down to dinner I felt like I was playing Russian Roulette. Will
> tonight be another one of those nights in the john, or is everything going
> to be okay this time. The general rule was if we went shopping together and
> fixed dinner soon after we got home, usually everything was okay. But if we
> were having leftovers the best I could do was say a prayer and hope for the
> best.
>
> Bob



Oldtimers had a theory that chilling a hot food too quickly would
cause it to "sour". I suspect this came from the days of iceboxes
when they didn't want the hot foods causing the ice to melt too
quickly. I know my grandmother always let foods cool to room
temp before refrigerating.



> P.S. There is something about elderly people and salt too. Just as they are
> getting to the age where high sodium intake should be a consideration, it
> seems they use about 5x more salt than seems reasonable, so much salt that
> even if you're eating the brown off her fried chicken it tastes more like
> the crumbs at the bottom of a very salty bag of potato chips.
>


Older people's sense of taste diminishes so they need to make
things spicier/saltier so they can taste the seasoning.
And there are people here who will argue against the concept
of salt contributing to high blood pressure, cholesterol contributing
to heart disease, etc.

gloria p


  #26 (permalink)   Report Post  
Bob Pastorio
 
Posts: n/a
Default Refrigeration question -- Apple Crisp

PENMART01 wrote:

As usual, Cookie Katz garbles the facts.

> Nope, so long as the knife is relatively clean (ie. not been used to schmear
> tuna salad) most baked goods need no refrigeration, cut or uncut... simply
> cover loosely (not air-tite) to retard staling and mold.


Mold will grow more quickly at room temperature than if refrigerated.
Staling will proceed more slowly at room temperature than if
refrigerated. Covering or not won't have any effect on either.

Some baked goods should be refrigerated if not used within a few hours
of being baked. Anything containing cheese, for example. Anything
containing custards. Real mincemeat pies. Breads with meats baked into
them (brioche with sausage baked into it, for example).

Refrigerating fruit pies will firm them up so they cut and present
better. 3-day old pie that's been warmed is warmed-over 3-day old pie.

Pastorio

> In fact baked goods,
> especially fruit pies, should NEVER be refrigerated, makes em just plain taste
> lousy, and refrigerated they'd require air-tite wrap to prevent absorbing odors
> but then they'd go all soggy, blech! Btw, 2-3 day old slab of pie can easily
> be refreshed to near just baked by reheating in an oven for a few minutes... in
> fact couple day old fruit pie is often mo-better reheated then fresh baked,
> just like reheated stew.


  #27 (permalink)   Report Post  
Arri London
 
Posts: n/a
Default Refrigeration question -- Apple Crisp

Bob Travis wrote:
>
> Please let me know if this is not the right newsgroup for this question.
>
> My mother-in-law says that due to the high sugar content an apple crisp
> dessert does not need to be refrigerated for the first day after cooking.
> She says that if she made it just after breakfast and serves it just after
> supper it will be safe to eat that evening and it needn't be refrigerated
> until after it is served after supper.
>
> I said any cooked food will start harboring bacteria just as soon as it
> begins to cool, so she should have refrigerated it shortly after breakfast
> and after supper she should only have warmed up what she anticipated we
> would eat and kept the rest refrigerated.
>
> Well she got all huffy and picked up her apple crisp and went home. My
> thinking was, "Good riddens," but my wife asked me if I was absolutely sure
> that it needed to be refrigerated and if there was any truth to her mom's
> comment about the apple crisp's high sugar content making it so no
> refrigeration is necessary the first day after cooking?
>
> I said, "No, I'm not sure and maybe she really knows what she was talking
> about." My wife then said, "Well, you better find out because if you are
> wrong and she is right then you owe mom an apology." I said, "Okay, I'll get
> on the web and find out."
>
> I looked and looked and the best I could find was that apple crisp keeps for
> three days WITH refrigeration. I could not find anything which specified how
> long it could go without refrigeration on the day it was prepared.
>
> I am hoping someone here knows or can tell me where to look. I want to know
> if who was right and who was wrong.
>
> Thanks for a clue.
>
> Bob


If the crisp was made cleanly, in a clean kitchen, and kept covered, it
won't need refrigeration that first day. The apple pies and products
sold in your supermarket aren't refrigerated.

There is little point in being overcautious. A reheated 'crisp' is a
sorry thing indeed.
  #28 (permalink)   Report Post  
PENMART01
 
Posts: n/a
Default Refrigeration question -- Apple Crisp

A sneeze can reach speeds of 200 miles per hour.


---= BOYCOTT FRENCH--GERMAN (belgium) =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
Sheldon
````````````
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."

  #29 (permalink)   Report Post  
A.T. Hagan
 
Posts: n/a
Default Refrigeration question -- Apple Crisp

On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 00:52:43 GMT, "Bob Travis" >
wrote:

>Please let me know if this is not the right newsgroup for this question.
>
>My mother-in-law says that due to the high sugar content an apple crisp
>dessert does not need to be refrigerated for the first day after cooking.
>She says that if she made it just after breakfast and serves it just after
>supper it will be safe to eat that evening and it needn't be refrigerated
>until after it is served after supper.
>
>I said any cooked food will start harboring bacteria just as soon as it
>begins to cool, so she should have refrigerated it shortly after breakfast
>and after supper she should only have warmed up what she anticipated we
>would eat and kept the rest refrigerated.
>
>Well she got all huffy and picked up her apple crisp and went home. My
>thinking was, "Good riddens," but my wife asked me if I was absolutely sure
>that it needed to be refrigerated and if there was any truth to her mom's
>comment about the apple crisp's high sugar content making it so no
>refrigeration is necessary the first day after cooking?
>
>I said, "No, I'm not sure and maybe she really knows what she was talking
>about." My wife then said, "Well, you better find out because if you are
>wrong and she is right then you owe mom an apology." I said, "Okay, I'll get
>on the web and find out."
>
>I looked and looked and the best I could find was that apple crisp keeps for
>three days WITH refrigeration. I could not find anything which specified how
>long it could go without refrigeration on the day it was prepared.
>
>I am hoping someone here knows or can tell me where to look. I want to know
>if who was right and who was wrong.
>
>Thanks for a clue.
>
>Bob
>


Time to make up with mama, Bob.

I suppose if she'd put whipped cream on top of it you'd want to
refrigerate it right away, but that apple crisp isn't going to spoil
left out on the counter for a day, even two, even here in Florida.

By the third day here in Florida in the summer I'd give it a good
sniff test first.

......Alan.


--
Curiosity killed the cat -
lack of it is killing mankind.
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