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Refrigeration question -- Apple Crisp
Please let me know if this is not the right newsgroup for this question.
My mother-in-law says that due to the high sugar content an apple crisp dessert does not need to be refrigerated for the first day after cooking. She says that if she made it just after breakfast and serves it just after supper it will be safe to eat that evening and it needn't be refrigerated until after it is served after supper. I said any cooked food will start harboring bacteria just as soon as it begins to cool, so she should have refrigerated it shortly after breakfast and after supper she should only have warmed up what she anticipated we would eat and kept the rest refrigerated. Well she got all huffy and picked up her apple crisp and went home. My thinking was, "Good riddens," but my wife asked me if I was absolutely sure that it needed to be refrigerated and if there was any truth to her mom's comment about the apple crisp's high sugar content making it so no refrigeration is necessary the first day after cooking? I said, "No, I'm not sure and maybe she really knows what she was talking about." My wife then said, "Well, you better find out because if you are wrong and she is right then you owe mom an apology." I said, "Okay, I'll get on the web and find out." I looked and looked and the best I could find was that apple crisp keeps for three days WITH refrigeration. I could not find anything which specified how long it could go without refrigeration on the day it was prepared. I am hoping someone here knows or can tell me where to look. I want to know if who was right and who was wrong. Thanks for a clue. Bob |
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Refrigeration question -- Apple Crisp
"Bob Travis" > wrote in message . net... > Please let me know if this is not the right newsgroup for this question. > > My mother-in-law says that due to the high sugar content an apple crisp > dessert does not need to be refrigerated for the first day after cooking. > She says that if she made it just after breakfast and serves it just after > supper it will be safe to eat that evening and it needn't be refrigerated > until after it is served after supper. Bob, I can't give you a scientific answer, but it's basically apple pie, but constructed differently. Very few people in my experience refrigerate apple pie. I can say without doubt that a day without refrigeration won't kill you. Stace |
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Refrigeration question -- Apple Crisp
<<coming out of lurk mode>>
Dear Mr. Travis, I have cooked in a few restaurants over a few years when I was younger. I can tell you that, if there is ANY dairy used in the apple crisp it must be refrigerated from shortly after it has cooled. This usually means BUTTER, MILK, CREAM, etc. This was a RULE at one restaurant I worked in that was known for its desserts. It was then cooled and kept close to frozen to help keep it from spoiling and to help maintain shape and its quality. When we were about to serve it to someone it would be placed on a tray, put under the broiler for less than 2 minutes to bring it up to temperature and restore its flavor and consistency. It was then served on a plate with ice cream. In general, it then can be said to depend on the recipe. If it has dairy REFRIGERATE, it will probably keep for a week or more. If there is no dairy it is probably safe out, but I still would not want to chance it, though I am a bit on the cautious side since I learned about restaurants and their kitchens first hand. I hope this helps. If you need to contact me by email I am at your disposal, I am sure my email address is easily understood. If you do email me, please put ***APPLE CRISP in the SUBJECT line so my computer will grab the message as having a priority that I need to pay attention to and the APPLE CRISP reference will remind me of where and who the subject comes from. Bon Apetite Mike "Bob Travis" > wrote in message . net... > Please let me know if this is not the right newsgroup for this question. > > My mother-in-law says that due to the high sugar content an apple crisp > dessert does not need to be refrigerated for the first day after cooking. > She says that if she made it just after breakfast and serves it just after > supper it will be safe to eat that evening and it needn't be refrigerated > until after it is served after supper. > > I said any cooked food will start harboring bacteria just as soon as it > begins to cool, so she should have refrigerated it shortly after breakfast > and after supper she should only have warmed up what she anticipated we > would eat and kept the rest refrigerated. > > Well she got all huffy and picked up her apple crisp and went home. My > thinking was, "Good riddens," but my wife asked me if I was absolutely sure > that it needed to be refrigerated and if there was any truth to her mom's > comment about the apple crisp's high sugar content making it so no > refrigeration is necessary the first day after cooking? > > I said, "No, I'm not sure and maybe she really knows what she was talking > about." My wife then said, "Well, you better find out because if you are > wrong and she is right then you owe mom an apology." I said, "Okay, I'll get > on the web and find out." > > I looked and looked and the best I could find was that apple crisp keeps for > three days WITH refrigeration. I could not find anything which specified how > long it could go without refrigeration on the day it was prepared. > > I am hoping someone here knows or can tell me where to look. I want to know > if who was right and who was wrong. > > Thanks for a clue. > > Bob > > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.525 / Virus Database: 322 - Release Date: 10/9/03 |
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Refrigeration question -- Apple Crisp
"Bob IMBECILE Travisty" writes:
>Please let me know if this is not the right newsgroup for this question. > >My mother-in-law says that due to the high sugar content an apple crisp >dessert does not need to be refrigerated for the first day after cooking. >She says that if she made it just after breakfast and serves it just after >supper it will be safe to eat that evening and it needn't be refrigerated >until after it is served after supper. > >I said any cooked food will start harboring bacteria just as soon as it >begins to cool, so she should have refrigerated it shortly after breakfast >and after supper she should only have warmed up what she anticipated we >would eat and kept the rest refrigerated. > >Well she got all huffy and picked up her apple crisp and went home. My >thinking was, "Good riddens," but my wife asked me if I was absolutely sure >that it needed to be refrigerated and if there was any truth to her mom's >comment about the apple crisp's high sugar content making it so no >refrigeration is necessary the first day after cooking? > >I said, "No, I'm not sure and maybe she really knows what she was talking >about." My wife then said, "Well, you better find out because if you are >wrong and she is right then you owe mom an apology." I said, "Okay, I'll get >on the web and find out." > >I looked and looked and the best I could find was that apple crisp keeps for >three days WITH refrigeration. I could not find anything which specified how >long it could go without refrigeration on the day it was prepared. > >I am hoping someone here knows or can tell me where to look. I want to know >if who was right and who was wrong. > >Thanks for a clue. Not only high sugar content... it's *baked*, in an OVEN, hotter and longer than surgical instruments are autoclaved... that pie is friggin' sterile (like your pea brain). You don't have one tenth your M-I-L's IQ... and she's only a 25˘ ho. Now her daughter, she's really dumb, blind, ugli as sin... hasta be, the retard married the likes of you. ---= BOYCOTT FRENCH--GERMAN (belgium) =--- ---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =--- Sheldon ```````````` "Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation." |
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Refrigeration question -- Apple Crisp
Bob Travis wrote:
> > My mother-in-law says that due to the high sugar content an apple crisp > dessert does not need to be refrigerated for the first day after cooking. I'm not sure it would even cross my mind to refrigerate it. I'd eat it without a problem. Bet she's done that for longer than you've lived and ... she's still here. nancy |
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Refrigeration question -- Apple Crisp
"Bob Travis" > wrote in message . net... > Please let me know if this is not the right newsgroup for this question. > > My mother-in-law says that due to the high sugar content an apple crisp > dessert does not need to be refrigerated for the first day after cooking. > She says that if she made it just after breakfast and serves it just after > supper it will be safe to eat that evening and it needn't be refrigerated > until after it is served after supper. STOP RIGHT THERE! You're in the wrong newsgroup, so far. Try he alt.broom.for.mummy > > I said any cooked food will start harboring bacteria just as soon as it > begins to cool, so she should have refrigerated it shortly after breakfast > and after supper she should only have warmed up what she anticipated we > would eat and kept the rest refrigerated. nope. try rec.don.quixote > > Well she got all huffy and picked up her apple crisp and went home. My > thinking was, "Good riddens," but my wife asked me if I was absolutely sure > that it needed to be refrigerated and if there was any truth to her mom's > comment about the apple crisp's high sugar content making it so no > refrigeration is necessary the first day after cooking? ouch. maybe alt.picnic.food.left.out.nobody.died > > I said, "No, I'm not sure and maybe she really knows what she was talking > about." My wife then said, "Well, you better find out because if you are > wrong and she is right then you owe mom an apology." I said, "Okay, I'll get > on the web and find out." wow! rec.research.then.grovel > > I looked and looked and the best I could find was that apple crisp keeps for > three days WITH refrigeration. I could not find anything which specified how > long it could go without refrigeration on the day it was prepared. hmmm....a curve ball. ok, how bout alt.eat.it.and.see > > I am hoping someone here knows or can tell me where to look. I want to know > if who was right and who was wrong. > > Thanks for a clue. > nah, that's alt.clues.r.us What's in apple crisp? apples, brown sugar, oatmeal, maybe a little butter? It could have sat out on the counter until dinner without major penalty. You can leave a loaf of bread out, no? or in a breadbox? Sorry, Bob, put on the collar and beg. Find out how at alt.binaries.pictures.mothers.in.law Jack Outlaws |
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Refrigeration question -- Apple Crisp
Well, Nancy, the reason I asked is because growing up my dad was a
microbiologist / quality control supervisor at a food plant so we were always more germ conscious than most people. When my wife's mom grew up her dad was a farmer, they had no electricity, and for personal hygiene they used an outhouse. In the 12 years we've been married both my wife and her mom complain of stomach aches far more often than I do. Her mom even wonders why her poor dog is always getting sick too and it never seems to dawn on her that maybe it's because she will prepare a meat dish for him early in the morning and never even think about refrigerating it until late in the day. And God forbid I should say anything to her, she'd get all huffy like she did tonight and let me know she didn't even have a refrigerator when she was growing up. I didn't want to poor vinegar on the wound and ask her how much time she spent in the outhouse. That is why I thought possibly her "high sugar" explanation might be plausible, but I thought I'd better ask someone that knows more about cooking and refrigeration than I know. All I can tell you for sure is my wife and I lived with her mom the first two years we were married and after we moved out and began cooking more of our own meals I rarely got stomach aches and associated problems again, but when we lived with her mom they were a fairly regular occurrence. Every time we sat down to dinner I felt like I was playing Russian Roulette. Will tonight be another one of those nights in the john, or is everything going to be okay this time. The general rule was if we went shopping together and fixed dinner soon after we got home, usually everything was okay. But if we were having leftovers the best I could do was say a prayer and hope for the best. Bob P.S. There is something about elderly people and salt too. Just as they are getting to the age where high sodium intake should be a consideration, it seems they use about 5x more salt than seems reasonable, so much salt that even if you're eating the brown off her fried chicken it tastes more like the crumbs at the bottom of a very salty bag of potato chips. "Nancy Young" > wrote in message ... > Bob Travis wrote: > > > > > My mother-in-law says that due to the high sugar content an apple crisp > > dessert does not need to be refrigerated for the first day after cooking. > > I'm not sure it would even cross my mind to refrigerate it. I'd > eat it without a problem. Bet she's done that for longer than > you've lived and ... she's still here. > > nancy |
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Refrigeration question -- Apple Crisp
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Refrigeration question -- Apple Crisp
Well, Jack, I see in a round about way, the majority of the people here take
my mother-in-law's side, presumably because she's past seventy and still here to talk about it, or you just know more about apple crisp than I do. My initial thought was, better safe than sorry, but I have to admit it tasted pretty good when it first came out of the oven, maybe it wouldn't be so bad now. I think the group has fairly well convinced me that it's not a lot different than apple pie and I know there have been many occasions where I have eaten an apple pie several days old that had never been refrigerated. Maybe I was overdoing it a bit when I began making a big deal about it not being refrigerated. Well, did you ever see the TV show "Monk"? We could have been twins except I'm the real thing and he's just an excellent actor reading a very funny script. When I was a kid if you wanted a drink of my coke or a bite of my ice cream I would take a big chug or a big bite and let you have the rest. I'd say something like, "I'm full," or "I've had enough," while thinking what a ******* you were for having the gall to ask for a bite or a swallow, then think I was going to keep eating it after you had some. I soon figured out that if I was going to keep any friends I had to buy them one of their own oe just make sure I never ate around them any more. Bob "Jack Schidt®" > wrote in message m... > > "Bob Travis" > wrote in message > . net... > > Please let me know if this is not the right newsgroup for this question. > > > > My mother-in-law says that due to the high sugar content an apple crisp > > dessert does not need to be refrigerated for the first day after cooking. > > She says that if she made it just after breakfast and serves it just after > > supper it will be safe to eat that evening and it needn't be refrigerated > > until after it is served after supper. > > STOP RIGHT THERE! You're in the wrong newsgroup, so far. > > Try he alt.broom.for.mummy > > > > > I said any cooked food will start harboring bacteria just as soon as it > > begins to cool, so she should have refrigerated it shortly after breakfast > > and after supper she should only have warmed up what she anticipated we > > would eat and kept the rest refrigerated. > > nope. try rec.don.quixote > > > > > Well she got all huffy and picked up her apple crisp and went home. My > > thinking was, "Good riddens," but my wife asked me if I was absolutely > sure > > that it needed to be refrigerated and if there was any truth to her mom's > > comment about the apple crisp's high sugar content making it so no > > refrigeration is necessary the first day after cooking? > > ouch. maybe alt.picnic.food.left.out.nobody.died > > > > > I said, "No, I'm not sure and maybe she really knows what she was talking > > about." My wife then said, "Well, you better find out because if you are > > wrong and she is right then you owe mom an apology." I said, "Okay, I'll > get > > on the web and find out." > > wow! rec.research.then.grovel > > > > > I looked and looked and the best I could find was that apple crisp keeps > for > > three days WITH refrigeration. I could not find anything which specified > how > > long it could go without refrigeration on the day it was prepared. > > hmmm....a curve ball. ok, how bout alt.eat.it.and.see > > > > > I am hoping someone here knows or can tell me where to look. I want to > know > > if who was right and who was wrong. > > > > Thanks for a clue. > > > > nah, that's alt.clues.r.us > > What's in apple crisp? apples, brown sugar, oatmeal, maybe a little butter? > It could have sat out on the counter until dinner without major penalty. > You can leave a loaf of bread out, no? or in a breadbox? > > Sorry, Bob, put on the collar and beg. Find out how at > alt.binaries.pictures.mothers.in.law > > Jack Outlaws > > |
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Refrigeration question -- Apple Crisp
Gosh, if that WAIS was right at 131 and MILs is ten times higher (1310) I am
living with someone smarter than Einstein, Thanks so much for poiting this out. With big words like "autoclaving" in your vocabulary you must really be smart too. Despite your incredible condescension I am of the opinion your message was one of the best one's I've read here tonight. It was definitely amusing and I bet you had great fun clicking the "send" button, but I'm glad you did because what I got out of it made sense to me and I guess I was just barely smart enough to grasp that fact. Bob IMBECILE Travisty (oh, what a great play on words) <BFG> "PENMART01" > wrote in message ... > "Bob IMBECILE Travisty" writes: > > >Please let me know if this is not the right newsgroup for this question. > > > >My mother-in-law says that due to the high sugar content an apple crisp > >dessert does not need to be refrigerated for the first day after cooking. > >She says that if she made it just after breakfast and serves it just after > >supper it will be safe to eat that evening and it needn't be refrigerated > >until after it is served after supper. > > > >I said any cooked food will start harboring bacteria just as soon as it > >begins to cool, so she should have refrigerated it shortly after breakfast > >and after supper she should only have warmed up what she anticipated we > >would eat and kept the rest refrigerated. > > > >Well she got all huffy and picked up her apple crisp and went home. My > >thinking was, "Good riddens," but my wife asked me if I was absolutely sure > >that it needed to be refrigerated and if there was any truth to her mom's > >comment about the apple crisp's high sugar content making it so no > >refrigeration is necessary the first day after cooking? > > > >I said, "No, I'm not sure and maybe she really knows what she was talking > >about." My wife then said, "Well, you better find out because if you are > >wrong and she is right then you owe mom an apology." I said, "Okay, I'll get > >on the web and find out." > > > >I looked and looked and the best I could find was that apple crisp keeps for > >three days WITH refrigeration. I could not find anything which specified how > >long it could go without refrigeration on the day it was prepared. > > > >I am hoping someone here knows or can tell me where to look. I want to know > >if who was right and who was wrong. > > > >Thanks for a clue. > > Not only high sugar content... it's *baked*, in an OVEN, hotter and longer than > surgical instruments are autoclaved... that pie is friggin' sterile (like your > pea brain). You don't have one tenth your M-I-L's IQ... and she's only a 25˘ > ho. Now her daughter, she's really dumb, blind, ugli as sin... hasta be, the > retard married the likes of you. > > > ---= BOYCOTT FRENCH--GERMAN (belgium) =--- > ---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =--- > Sheldon > ```````````` > "Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation." > |
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Refrigeration question -- Apple Crisp
Thanks, Netguy.
Is sugar a natural preservative? Hmmmn, candied pineapple, cherry pie, cookies, ...maybe you've got something there. Bob "Netguy" > wrote in message ... > In article > , > says... > > Please let me know if this is not the right newsgroup for this question. > > > > My mother-in-law says that due to the high sugar content an apple crisp > > dessert does not need to be refrigerated for the first day after cooking. > > She says that if she made it just after breakfast and serves it just after > > supper it will be safe to eat that evening and it needn't be refrigerated > > until after it is served after supper. > > > > I said any cooked food will start harboring bacteria just as soon as it > > begins to cool, so she should have refrigerated it shortly after breakfast > > and after supper she should only have warmed up what she anticipated we > > would eat and kept the rest refrigerated. > > > > Well she got all huffy and picked up her apple crisp and went home. My > > thinking was, "Good riddens," but my wife asked me if I was absolutely sure > > that it needed to be refrigerated and if there was any truth to her mom's > > comment about the apple crisp's high sugar content making it so no > > refrigeration is necessary the first day after cooking? > > > > I said, "No, I'm not sure and maybe she really knows what she was talking > > about." My wife then said, "Well, you better find out because if you are > > wrong and she is right then you owe mom an apology." I said, "Okay, I'll get > > on the web and find out." > > > > I looked and looked and the best I could find was that apple crisp keeps for > > three days WITH refrigeration. I could not find anything which specified how > > long it could go without refrigeration on the day it was prepared. > > > > I am hoping someone here knows or can tell me where to look. I want to know > > if who was right and who was wrong. > > > > Thanks for a clue. > > > > Bob > > Gosh, I never, ever refrigerate any dessert made with sugar. On the > other hand, those made with Splenda get the cool down - quick. > > > > > > > |
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Refrigeration question -- Apple Crisp
Bob Travis wrote:
> I said any cooked food will start harboring bacteria just as soon as it > begins to cool, so she should have refrigerated it shortly after breakfast Probably it does, once it's cooled. But does enough grow in 12 hours to make you sick? I leave apple crisp out for days, if it lasts that long. I do cover it, though, with plastic or the casserole lid. > comment about the apple crisp's high sugar content making it so no > refrigeration is necessary the first day after cooking? I don't know that high sugar content does anything. But if you practice general hygeine and cleanliness (washing hands, wiping off counters, refridgerating raw meats, not having small 6 legged pests) you probably are not at risk from day old bakery goods. I wouldn't leave it uncovered outside, where pets could get it, or allow people to stick their fingers into it. Dawn |
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Refrigeration question -- Apple Crisp
Dawn wrote:
> Bob Travis wrote: > >> I said any cooked food will start harboring bacteria just as soon as it >> begins to cool, so she should have refrigerated it shortly after >> breakfast > > Probably it does, once it's cooled. But does enough grow in 12 hours to > make you sick? There are two different kinds of bacteria to consider; pathogens that can hurt you and spoilage bacteria that will merely cause deterioration in quality of the product. Pathogens aren't going to find much to feed on here. Baking it has essentially sterilized it (not fully, but close enough). Generally, pathogens do their worst with proteins as fuel. Not much protein in apple pie. > I leave apple crisp out for days, if it lasts that long. I do cover it, > though, with plastic or the casserole lid. > >> comment about the apple crisp's high sugar content making it so no >> refrigeration is necessary the first day after cooking? Sugar is bacteriostatic. > I don't know that high sugar content does anything. But if you practice > general hygeine and cleanliness (washing hands, wiping off counters, > refridgerating raw meats, not having small 6 legged pests) you probably > are not at risk from day old bakery goods. > > I wouldn't leave it uncovered outside, where pets could get it, or allow > people to stick their fingers into it. Amen. Leave it on the counter, covered. Pastorio |
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Refrigeration question -- Apple Crisp
Bob Travis wrote:
>Well she got all huffy and picked up her apple crisp and went home. >... "if you are wrong and she is right then you owe mom an apology." I think that in these sorts of family situations you should apologise even if you're in the right. No one changes their ways if it means loosing face, and family discord isn't worth it. -- Lucian |
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Refrigeration question -- Apple Crisp
"Bob Travis" > wrote in message news:%enjb.568670$cF.244110@rwcrnsc53... > Well, Jack, I see in a round about way, the majority of the people here take > my mother-in-law's side, presumably because she's past seventy and still > here to talk about it, or you just know more about apple crisp than I do. My > initial thought was, better safe than sorry, but I have to admit it tasted > pretty good when it first came out of the oven, maybe it wouldn't be so bad > now. I think the group has fairly well convinced me that it's not a lot > different than apple pie and I know there have been many occasions where I > have eaten an apple pie several days old that had never been refrigerated. yeahbut, didja laugh? > > Maybe I was overdoing it a bit when I began making a big deal about it not > being refrigerated. Well, did you ever see the TV show "Monk"? We could > have been twins except I'm the real thing and he's just an excellent actor > reading a very funny script. When I was a kid if you wanted a drink of my > coke or a bite of my ice cream I would take a big chug or a big bite and let > you have the rest. I'd say something like, "I'm full," or "I've had enough," > while thinking what a ******* you were for having the gall to ask for a bite > or a swallow, then think I was going to keep eating it after you had some. I > soon figured out that if I was going to keep any friends I had to buy them > one of their own oe just make sure I never ate around them any more. > > Bob > Well, you did come to the right place and glad we could set your mind at ease. It's better to err on the side of safety when it comes to food and no harm would have come to the apple crisp if it were refrigerated. Now if she wanted to leave the tuna-egg casserole out on the counter overnight... Jack Hygiene |
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Refrigeration question -- Apple Crisp
On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 00:52:43 GMT, "Bob Travis" >
wrote: >Please let me know if this is not the right newsgroup for this question. You're well within the limits. > >My mother-in-law says that due to the high sugar content an apple crisp >dessert does not need to be refrigerated for the first day after cooking. >She says that if she made it just after breakfast and serves it just after >supper it will be safe to eat that evening and it needn't be refrigerated >until after it is served after supper. I agree. > >I said any cooked food will start harboring bacteria just as soon as it >begins to cool, so she should have refrigerated it shortly after breakfast >and after supper she should only have warmed up what she anticipated we >would eat and kept the rest refrigerated. Apple crisp -- apples, sugar, flour, butter, spices, salt -- *all* ingredients that are usually (or at least sometime, in the case of butter) stored at room temperature. Further, the combination has been baked for a fair amount of time at a relatively high temperature. Food safety guidelines (below 40F or above 140F) apply to foods that are prime sites for bacterial multiplication -- meat, eggs, dairy (butter is mostly fat) and that in themselves may carry a risk of harboring things like e-coli and salmonella. You don't refrigerate a bag of pretzels after opening, or candy or cereal or crackers or cookies. > >Well she got all huffy and picked up her apple crisp and went home. Well, there's your answer. You definitely lose. :-) >I said, "No, I'm not sure and maybe she really knows what she was talking >about." My wife then said, "Well, you better find out because if you are >wrong and she is right then you owe mom an apology." I said, "Okay, I'll get >on the web and find out." MIL may not have been correct in the idea that sugar prevents bacterial invasion, but she *was* right that refrigeration isn't at all necessary for the apple crisp. Or pie or cake or peanut butter or toast. >I looked and looked and the best I could find was that apple crisp keeps for >three days WITH refrigeration. I could not find anything which specified how >long it could go without refrigeration on the day it was prepared. After 3 days, in or out of a refrigerator, apple crisp will be relatively unappetizing. Almost *all* foodstuffs will eventually succumb to mold, critter infestation (if not tightly sealed, and sometimes even then), rancidity, or bacterial growth. Rapid refrigeration of "cooked foods" applies to meats, dairy-rich sauces, custards and whatnot with eggs, soups or broths with meat ingredients, etc. Look in your local grocery store for unrefrigerated baked goods of all sorts. >I am hoping someone here knows or can tell me where to look. I want to know >if who was right and who was wrong. You are wrong. You could investigate: http://vm.cfsan.fda.gov/list.html Even if you were right, you'd be wrong. You lost the apple crisp and irritated your MIL. If you were concerned, you could have refrigerated after she left. |
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Refrigeration question -- Apple Crisp
On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 01:58:50 GMT, "Bob Travis" >
wrote: >Well, Nancy, the reason I asked is because growing up my dad was a >microbiologist / quality control supervisor at a food plant so we were >always more germ conscious than most people. Commercial food production *must* have the most stringent rules and do its best to reduce the tiniest possibility of food-borne contaminents. Both by law (now) and from the expense of dealing with lawsuits. >When my wife's mom grew up her >dad was a farmer, they had no electricity, and for personal hygiene they >used an outhouse. In the 12 years we've been married both my wife and her >mom complain of stomach aches far more often than I do. Can't comment on MIL's environment, but if you and your wife eat the same food, her stomach aches may be the result of something other than food poisoning. >Her mom even wonders >why her poor dog is always getting sick too and it never seems to dawn on >her that maybe it's because she will prepare a meat dish for him early in >the morning and never even think about refrigerating it until late in the >day. This is an entirely different question than the apple crisp. And also a problem with *many* possible variables. Day-old dog food among them. >And God forbid I should say anything to her, she'd get all huffy like >she did tonight and let me know she didn't even have a refrigerator when she >was growing up. I didn't want to poor vinegar on the wound and ask her how >much time she spent in the outhouse. My grandmother said she bathed once a week and felt hot baths were "weakening." I listened to and enjoyed the stories and old-timey lore. I didn't stop daily showers or hot baths. Nor did I challange her notions. >That is why I thought possibly her "high sugar" explanation might be >plausible, but I thought I'd better ask someone that knows more about >cooking and refrigeration than I know. I've never researched sugar as a preservative and bacterial preventive. Opened (but not open) jars of jam seem to last a long time. OTOH, I've seen mold on opened jars that have been refrigerated. And even on honey, so I'm guessing that sugar isn't a cure. >All I can tell you for sure is my wife and I lived with her mom the first >two years we were married and after we moved out and began cooking more of >our own meals I rarely got stomach aches and associated problems again, but >when we lived with her mom they were a fairly regular occurrence. Every time >we sat down to dinner I felt like I was playing Russian Roulette. Will >tonight be another one of those nights in the john, or is everything going >to be okay this time. The general rule was if we went shopping together and >fixed dinner soon after we got home, usually everything was okay. But if we >were having leftovers the best I could do was say a prayer and hope for the >best. Sometimes "let us do the cooking" works. Sometimes not. As the story unfolds, MIL may indeed be dicing with death in food prep. It's rather difficult to change another's personal habits of any sort. >P.S. There is something about elderly people and salt too. Just as they are >getting to the age where high sodium intake should be a consideration, it >seems they use about 5x more salt than seems reasonable, so much salt that >even if you're eating the brown off her fried chicken it tastes more like >the crumbs at the bottom of a very salty bag of potato chips. As I understand it, taste sensations degrade with age just like hearing and eyesight. So if salt can't be readily detected, the answer for many is more salt. Health advisors say the remedy is to introduce more flavorings of other sorts -- herbs & spices -- to "ginger up" foods. You might try some "we'll bring the main dish" situations rather than suffering salt chicken. |
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Refrigeration book question -- was Apple crisp
There is a recent book about the history of an American enterprise to
ship and sell ice, including sending it to India, in the late 1800s. It was read on BBC radio a couple of months ago and I heard part of it. Search as I may, I can't find the book titile. I'd really like to read the whole book. |
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Refrigeration question -- Apple Crisp
"Bob Travis" > writes:
>Her mom even wonders >why her poor dog is always getting sick too and it never seems to dawn on >her that maybe it's because she will prepare a meat dish for him early in >the morning and never even think about refrigerating it until late in the >day. This one doesn't apply, Bob. Dogs' digestive systems aren't subject to the same dire consequences of spoiled meat than humans'. They can eat thoroughly rotten meat without any problem. They can handle bacterial loads that would kill us, without blinking an eye, because their digestive system is different. It's a matter of enzymes. So, there's probably another reason why the dog is sick - not one-day-old meat. Connie ************************************************** *** My mind is like a steel...um, whatchamacallit. |
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Refrigeration question -- Apple Crisp
"Boob IMBECILE Travisty" writes:
> >Boob IMBECILE Travisty <snip> > >"PENMART01" wrote: >> "Boob IMBECILE Travisty" writes: Yet another LYING ******* claims to have me killfiled... DUH! Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. . . . ---= BOYCOTT FRENCH--GERMAN (belgium) =--- ---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =--- Sheldon ```````````` "Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation." |
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Refrigeration question -- Apple Crisp
"Boob Travisty" writes:
> >Well, Nancy, the reason I asked is because growing up my dad was a >microbiologist / quality control supervisor at a food plant You sure didn't inherit any of those genes... you dumb shit... in fact you don't know who your father is, your 25˘ whoring momma doesn't even know. Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. . . . ---= BOYCOTT FRENCH--GERMAN (belgium) =--- ---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =--- Sheldon ```````````` "Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation." |
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Refrigeration question -- Apple Crisp
In article >, Sheryl Rosen
> writes: >stace at wrote >on 10/15/03 9:00 PM: > >> >> "Bob Travis" > wrote in message >> . net... >>> Please let me know if this is not the right newsgroup for this question. >>> >>> My mother-in-law says that due to the high sugar content an apple crisp >>> dessert does not need to be refrigerated for the first day after cooking. >>> She says that if she made it just after breakfast and serves it just after >>> supper it will be safe to eat that evening and it needn't be refrigerated >>> until after it is served after supper. >> >> Bob, I can't give you a scientific answer, but it's basically apple pie, >but >> constructed differently. >> Very few people in my experience refrigerate apple pie. >> I can say without doubt that a day without refrigeration won't kill you. >> >> Stace >> >> > >once it's cut into, it requires refrigeration. Nope, so long as the knife is relatively clean (ie. not been used to schmear tuna salad) most baked goods need no refrigeration, cut or uncut... simply cover loosely (not air-tite) to retard staling and mold. In fact baked goods, especially fruit pies, should NEVER be refrigerated, makes em just plain taste lousy, and refrigerated they'd require air-tite wrap to prevent absorbing odors but then they'd go all soggy, blech! Btw, 2-3 day old slab of pie can easily be refreshed to near just baked by reheating in an oven for a few minutes... in fact couple day old fruit pie is often mo-better reheated then fresh baked, just like reheated stew. I mean like how many weeks yoose planning to leave this pie out on the counter? ---= BOYCOTT FRENCH--GERMAN (belgium) =--- ---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =--- Sheldon ```````````` "Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation." |
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Refrigeration question -- Apple Crisp
"Bob Travis" > wrote in message
> All I can tell you for sure is my wife and I lived with her mom the first > two years we were married and after we moved out and began cooking more of > our own meals I rarely got stomach aches and associated problems again, but > when we lived with her mom they were a fairly regular occurrence. Every time > we sat down to dinner I felt like I was playing Russian Roulette. Will > tonight be another one of those nights in the john, or is everything going > to be okay this time. The general rule was if we went shopping together and > fixed dinner soon after we got home, usually everything was okay. But if we > were having leftovers the best I could do was say a prayer and hope for the > best. I find myself more sensitive to certain things than other people - if the ground beef is more than a day old when I cook it, I'm taking a chance on spending a lot of time in the bathroom - OTOH, others in my family don't have that problem. My ex-in-laws (both died of old age) used to fry chicken and leave it out on the back of the cooling stove all night - never had any problems. I couldn't/wouldn't do that on a bet. They probably had more tolerance built up over the years. > > Bob > > P.S. There is something about elderly people and salt too. Just as they are > getting to the age where high sodium intake should be a consideration, it > seems they use about 5x more salt than seems reasonable, so much salt that > even if you're eating the brown off her fried chicken it tastes more like > the crumbs at the bottom of a very salty bag of potato chips. As aging continues, most people lose some of their senses of smell and taste - they add more salt because they can't taste less salt, so to speak. N. P.S. I always refrigerate apple crisp and apple pie after it's served - I wouldn't worry about it sitting out from baking to dinner - BUT, neither has any dairy (or eggs) in it (except butter, and that doesn't count ;-) |
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Refrigeration question -- Apple Crisp
Bob Travis wrote:
> > All I can tell you for sure is my wife and I lived with her mom the first > two years we were married and after we moved out and began cooking more of > our own meals I rarely got stomach aches and associated problems again, but > when we lived with her mom they were a fairly regular occurrence. Every time > we sat down to dinner I felt like I was playing Russian Roulette. Will > tonight be another one of those nights in the john, or is everything going > to be okay this time. The general rule was if we went shopping together and > fixed dinner soon after we got home, usually everything was okay. But if we > were having leftovers the best I could do was say a prayer and hope for the > best. > > Bob Oldtimers had a theory that chilling a hot food too quickly would cause it to "sour". I suspect this came from the days of iceboxes when they didn't want the hot foods causing the ice to melt too quickly. I know my grandmother always let foods cool to room temp before refrigerating. > P.S. There is something about elderly people and salt too. Just as they are > getting to the age where high sodium intake should be a consideration, it > seems they use about 5x more salt than seems reasonable, so much salt that > even if you're eating the brown off her fried chicken it tastes more like > the crumbs at the bottom of a very salty bag of potato chips. > Older people's sense of taste diminishes so they need to make things spicier/saltier so they can taste the seasoning. And there are people here who will argue against the concept of salt contributing to high blood pressure, cholesterol contributing to heart disease, etc. gloria p |
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Refrigeration question -- Apple Crisp
PENMART01 wrote:
As usual, Cookie Katz garbles the facts. > Nope, so long as the knife is relatively clean (ie. not been used to schmear > tuna salad) most baked goods need no refrigeration, cut or uncut... simply > cover loosely (not air-tite) to retard staling and mold. Mold will grow more quickly at room temperature than if refrigerated. Staling will proceed more slowly at room temperature than if refrigerated. Covering or not won't have any effect on either. Some baked goods should be refrigerated if not used within a few hours of being baked. Anything containing cheese, for example. Anything containing custards. Real mincemeat pies. Breads with meats baked into them (brioche with sausage baked into it, for example). Refrigerating fruit pies will firm them up so they cut and present better. 3-day old pie that's been warmed is warmed-over 3-day old pie. Pastorio > In fact baked goods, > especially fruit pies, should NEVER be refrigerated, makes em just plain taste > lousy, and refrigerated they'd require air-tite wrap to prevent absorbing odors > but then they'd go all soggy, blech! Btw, 2-3 day old slab of pie can easily > be refreshed to near just baked by reheating in an oven for a few minutes... in > fact couple day old fruit pie is often mo-better reheated then fresh baked, > just like reheated stew. |
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Refrigeration question -- Apple Crisp
Bob Travis wrote:
> > Please let me know if this is not the right newsgroup for this question. > > My mother-in-law says that due to the high sugar content an apple crisp > dessert does not need to be refrigerated for the first day after cooking. > She says that if she made it just after breakfast and serves it just after > supper it will be safe to eat that evening and it needn't be refrigerated > until after it is served after supper. > > I said any cooked food will start harboring bacteria just as soon as it > begins to cool, so she should have refrigerated it shortly after breakfast > and after supper she should only have warmed up what she anticipated we > would eat and kept the rest refrigerated. > > Well she got all huffy and picked up her apple crisp and went home. My > thinking was, "Good riddens," but my wife asked me if I was absolutely sure > that it needed to be refrigerated and if there was any truth to her mom's > comment about the apple crisp's high sugar content making it so no > refrigeration is necessary the first day after cooking? > > I said, "No, I'm not sure and maybe she really knows what she was talking > about." My wife then said, "Well, you better find out because if you are > wrong and she is right then you owe mom an apology." I said, "Okay, I'll get > on the web and find out." > > I looked and looked and the best I could find was that apple crisp keeps for > three days WITH refrigeration. I could not find anything which specified how > long it could go without refrigeration on the day it was prepared. > > I am hoping someone here knows or can tell me where to look. I want to know > if who was right and who was wrong. > > Thanks for a clue. > > Bob If the crisp was made cleanly, in a clean kitchen, and kept covered, it won't need refrigeration that first day. The apple pies and products sold in your supermarket aren't refrigerated. There is little point in being overcautious. A reheated 'crisp' is a sorry thing indeed. |
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Refrigeration question -- Apple Crisp
A sneeze can reach speeds of 200 miles per hour.
---= BOYCOTT FRENCH--GERMAN (belgium) =--- ---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =--- Sheldon ```````````` "Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation." |
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Refrigeration question -- Apple Crisp
On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 00:52:43 GMT, "Bob Travis" >
wrote: >Please let me know if this is not the right newsgroup for this question. > >My mother-in-law says that due to the high sugar content an apple crisp >dessert does not need to be refrigerated for the first day after cooking. >She says that if she made it just after breakfast and serves it just after >supper it will be safe to eat that evening and it needn't be refrigerated >until after it is served after supper. > >I said any cooked food will start harboring bacteria just as soon as it >begins to cool, so she should have refrigerated it shortly after breakfast >and after supper she should only have warmed up what she anticipated we >would eat and kept the rest refrigerated. > >Well she got all huffy and picked up her apple crisp and went home. My >thinking was, "Good riddens," but my wife asked me if I was absolutely sure >that it needed to be refrigerated and if there was any truth to her mom's >comment about the apple crisp's high sugar content making it so no >refrigeration is necessary the first day after cooking? > >I said, "No, I'm not sure and maybe she really knows what she was talking >about." My wife then said, "Well, you better find out because if you are >wrong and she is right then you owe mom an apology." I said, "Okay, I'll get >on the web and find out." > >I looked and looked and the best I could find was that apple crisp keeps for >three days WITH refrigeration. I could not find anything which specified how >long it could go without refrigeration on the day it was prepared. > >I am hoping someone here knows or can tell me where to look. I want to know >if who was right and who was wrong. > >Thanks for a clue. > >Bob > Time to make up with mama, Bob. I suppose if she'd put whipped cream on top of it you'd want to refrigerate it right away, but that apple crisp isn't going to spoil left out on the counter for a day, even two, even here in Florida. By the third day here in Florida in the summer I'd give it a good sniff test first. ......Alan. -- Curiosity killed the cat - lack of it is killing mankind. |
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