I know it looks great in a restaurant - flames reaching to the ceiling
- but is it really more than a mere effect? I'm not being cynical
when I ask this question. I simply don't know.

There are certain dishes that I feel could benefit from the flavour of
some brandy - certain shellfish dishes being a good example. But I'm
never convinced at the benefit of setting the whole thing alight (as
the recipe often suggests) They say it is 'to burn off the alchohol'
but is that really a necessary thing? After all, the amount used per
person isn't anything significant.

Here in the UK it is traditional to pour brandy over the Christmas
pudding and set it alight. OK. I do that. For a brief moment if the
lights are out it looks great. But at the end of it all I never
actually taste any of that brandy I wasted.

So my question is "Is all this setting alight taking the taste away of
the brandy?"

- Derek

In article .com>,
wrote:

> I know it looks great in a restaurant - flames reaching to the ceiling
> - but is it really more than a mere effect? I'm not being cynical
> when I ask this question. I simply don't know.
>
> There are certain dishes that I feel could benefit from the flavour of
> some brandy - certain shellfish dishes being a good example. But I'm
> never convinced at the benefit of setting the whole thing alight (as
> the recipe often suggests) They say it is 'to burn off the alchohol'
> but is that really a necessary thing? After all, the amount used per
> person isn't anything significant.
>
> Here in the UK it is traditional to pour brandy over the Christmas
> pudding and set it alight. OK. I do that. For a brief moment if the
> lights are out it looks great. But at the end of it all I never
> actually taste any of that brandy I wasted.
>
> So my question is "Is all this setting alight taking the taste away of
> the brandy?"
>
> - Derek

Presentation is everything...

Just IMHO.
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

> wrote in message
oups.com...
>I know it looks great in a restaurant - flames reaching to the ceiling
> - but is it really more than a mere effect? I'm not being cynical
> when I ask this question. I simply don't know.


It's much faster than shaving.

In article .com>,
says...
> I know it looks great in a restaurant - flames reaching to the ceiling
> - but is it really more than a mere effect? I'm not being cynical
> when I ask this question. I simply don't know.
>
> There are certain dishes that I feel could benefit from the flavour of
> some brandy - certain shellfish dishes being a good example. But I'm
> never convinced at the benefit of setting the whole thing alight (as
> the recipe often suggests) They say it is 'to burn off the alchohol'
> but is that really a necessary thing? After all, the amount used per
> person isn't anything significant.
>
> Here in the UK it is traditional to pour brandy over the Christmas
> pudding and set it alight. OK. I do that. For a brief moment if the
> lights are out it looks great. But at the end of it all I never
> actually taste any of that brandy I wasted.
>
> So my question is "Is all this setting alight taking the taste away of
> the brandy?"
>
> - Derek
>
>

The flambe process provides a flavor that you would not get otherwise.
It does remove most of the alcohol but leaves behind the flavor
components of the brandy. Of course it is often overdone just for show.

--
Peter Aitken

On Aug 21, 4:23?pm, Peter A > wrote:
> In article .com>,
> says...
>
>
>
>
>
> > I know it looks great in a restaurant - flames reaching to the ceiling
> > - but is it really more than a mere effect? I'm not being cynical
> > when I ask this question. I simply don't know.
>
> > There are certain dishes that I feel could benefit from the flavour of
> > some brandy - certain shellfish dishes being a good example. But I'm
> > never convinced at the benefit of setting the whole thing alight (as
> > the recipe often suggests) They say it is 'to burn off the alchohol'
> > but is that really a necessary thing? After all, the amount used per
> > person isn't anything significant.
>
> > Here in the UK it is traditional to pour brandy over the Christmas
> > pudding and set it alight. OK. I do that. For a brief moment if the
> > lights are out it looks great. But at the end of it all I never
> > actually taste any of that brandy I wasted.
>
> > So my question is "Is all this setting alight taking the taste away of
> > the brandy?"
>
> > - Derek
>
> The flambe process provides a flavor that you would not get otherwise.

The very same flavor from the spirits would be imparted without the
flambe... the flames are totally for effect.

> It does remove most of the alcohol

Actually relatively little of the alcohol gets burned off.

http://www.betterendings.org/Recipes/cookal.htm

Sheldon

> wrote:

> I know it looks great in a restaurant - flames reaching to the ceiling
> - but is it really more than a mere effect? I'm not being cynical
> when I ask this question. I simply don't know.

I would say that most flambéing is, in fact, done in the solitude of the
kitchen - it is very often not for show. For example, such classical
recipes as coq au vin very often call for flambéing - and then for
cooking the chicken for one or two hours longer. Whether it really
makes much difference is another question. Some people maintain that
flambéing imparts some flavour, some of which supposedly coming from
caramelising of the surface of whatever it is that is being flambéed.
Other people say it does not do anything, tastewise. Many agree that,
say, crépes Suzette don't taste the same without flambéing.

Victor

wrote in news:1187725382.713864.290050
@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com:

>
> So my question is "Is all this setting alight taking the taste away of
> the brandy?"

Take a banana and fry in butter with some brown sugar. Add rum. Light.
Taste. Bet you taste the rum. My guess is the amount of brandy you are
using is not sufficient or the thing it is in is overpowering your
brandy.



--

Charles
The significant problems we face cannot be solved
at the same level of thinking we were at when we
created them. Albert Einstein

On Aug 21, 5:57?pm, (Victor Sack) wrote:
> > wrote:
> > I know it looks great in a restaurant - flames reaching to the ceiling
> > - but is it really more than a mere effect? I'm not being cynical
> > when I ask this question. I simply don't know.
>
> I would say that most flamb ing is, in fact, done in the solitude of the
> kitchen - it is very often not for show. For example, such classical
> recipes as coq au vin very often call for flamb ing - and then for
> cooking the chicken for one or two hours longer. Whether it really
> makes much difference is another question. Some people maintain that
> flamb ing imparts some flavour, some of which supposedly coming from
> caramelising of the surface of whatever it is that is being flamb ed.
> Other people say it does not do anything, tastewise. Many agree that,
> say, cr pes Suzette don't taste the same without flamb ing.


It's done strictly for dramatic presentation... never ever done in the
kitchen, not unless there are foodtv cameras present or for some such
photo op event. Flamb?ing imparts no flavor whatsoever and
caramelizes nothing. If a particular recipe calls for a particular
flavored liquor it may be added without being lit and will impart
exactly the same flavor... with flamb?ing only some the alcohol vapors
burn off, alcohol vapors impart no flavor, and in fact burn some
distance above the actual food, any alcohol dispersed into the food
will become too diluted to burn... flamb?ing only heats the
surrounding air, not the food... flamb?ing affects only the mood,
affects the food not a whit, nada. Only thing flamb?ing does is add
about $20 to the price of the meal, a sprig of parsley adds more, at
least you can consume it, can't consume the burned off alcohol... I
for one would much rather they poured that booze into my glass.

When you see a cook cause a pan to flame in the kitchen there is no
booze involved, the pan is heated smoking hot and it's the oil vapors
that ignite... now that adds aroma... the stench of carbonization
(burnt oil)... has exactly the same effect on lousy cooking that
lighting matches has in the terlit, to cover up the stench of taking a
dump., one stench covers up another... yoose choose.

flamb? [flahm-BAY]
French for "flamed" or "flaming," this *dramatic method of food
presentation* consists of sprinkling certain foods with liquor, which,
after warming, is ignited just before serving.

? Copyright Barron's Educational Services, Inc. 1995 based on THE FOOD
LOVER'S COMPANION, 2nd edition, by Sharon Tyler Herbst.


Sheldon

Sheldon > wrote:

> It's done strictly for dramatic presentation... never ever done in the
> kitchen, not unless there are foodtv cameras present or for some such
> photo op event.

Nonsense. I can post any number of classical recipes that call for
flambéing in the middle of the cooking, with no spectators present.
Many recipes for coq au vin, poulet sauté Vallée d'Auge (with calvados),
boeuf à la mode, kidneys with mustard sauce, etc. call for just such a
flambéing. The recipes all originate in the 19th century or earlier...
so much for FoodTV and photo-ops. Here is such a recipe from Paul
Bocuse's Web site:

<http://www.bocuse.fr/recettes/ficherecette_us.asp?id=196>.

> Flamb?ing

This atrocity and the subject header... Your so-called newsreader
(Google) is broken; can't even set the right charset and render the
accented letters correctly, not even on its own Web site.

Victor

(Victor Sack) wrote:
> Sheldon wrote:
> > It's done strictly for dramatic presentation... never ever done in the
> > kitchen, not unless there are foodtv cameras present or for some such
> > photo op event.
>
> Nonsense. I can post any number of classical recipes that call for
> flamb ing in the middle of the cooking, with no spectators present.
> Many recipes for coq au vin, poulet saut Vall e d'Auge (with calvados),
> boeuf la mode, kidneys with mustard sauce, etc. call for just such a
> flamb ing. The recipes all originate in the 19th century or earlier...
> so much for FoodTV and photo-ops. Here is such a recipe from Paul
> Bocuse's Web site:
>
> <http://www.bocuse.fr/recettes/ficherecette_us.asp?id=196>.
>
> > Flamb?ing
>
> This atrocity and the subject header... Your so-called newsreader
> (Google) is broken; can't even set the right charset and render the
> accented letters correctly, not even on its own Web site.

Your fragile foolish ego is herniated, again.

On Aug 22, 10:11?pm, Steve Wertz > wrote:
> On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 19:33:37 -0700, Sheldon wrote:
> > It's done strictly for dramatic presentation... never ever done in the
> > kitchen, not unless there are foodtv cameras present or for some such
> > photo op event.
>
> While it's not done with alcohol (usually), the fire coming off
> of a hot wok when tilted towards the burner is crucial for that
> wok hey of Asian cuisine.
>
> I'm sure that flambeing does imparts a definite flavor of it's
> own.

You didn't read my post carefully... that's ignited oil fumes, the
flavor generated is from carbonization... for the same purpose matches
are lit in the head while taking a dump, to cover up the rotten stench.

On Aug 21, 6:37 pm, Charles Quinn > wrote:
>
> Take a banana and fry in butter with some brown sugar. Add rum. Light.
> Taste. Bet you taste the rum. My guess is the amount of brandy you are
> using is not sufficient or the thing it is in is overpowering your
> brandy.
>
Better yet, do two batches and test whether the flaming action affects
the taste. First batch, don't set the rum aflame, just let it cook
and bubble for x minutes to finish the dish and boil off a bit of the
alcohol. Serve and taste. Second batch, start as for the first but
set the rum aflame, then finish for x minutes as you did the first.
Serve and taste. Is there a difference?

Personally, I would expect there to be a difference. I flame these
bananas and I flame the brandy when I make real coq au vin. Whether
there's an audience or not. -aem

On Aug 22, 10:14?pm, Steve Wertz > wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Aug 2007 23:55:16 +0200, Victor Sack wrote:
> > This atrocity and the subject header... Your so-called newsreader
> > (Google) is broken; can't even set the right charset and render the
> > accented letters correctly, not even on its own Web site.
>
> That's what happens when you cut and paste from a web page.

Um, it's COPY and paste... cutting removes the material.

"Fire!" Huh, huh, yeah "Fire, fire, fire!!!" My imitation of Beavis.

Becca

Thanks everybody for the replies.

I have to say that I'd go along with those who stated rum (as opposed
to brandy) imparts a flavour (whether or not it is flamed). Rum is
made of sterner stuff.

But I'm always sceptical when recipes call for a dish to be flamed
(with brandy) - and TV photographers aren't something I normally trip
over in our kitchen. It's like certain chefs never seem to be able to
cook in anything but wine; I'd wouldn't even be surprised if they
suggested boiling eggs in white wine! It's one of those cheffy
things - and possibly handed down from the days when in certain places
in the world cheap wine was more reliable a substance than the local
water.

Anyway, from the variety of opinions it would seem that the jury
hasn't managed to reach a uniform conclusion, so some experimenting
clearly needs to be done.

- Derek

Steve Wertz > wrote:

> On Wed, 22 Aug 2007 23:55:16 +0200, Victor Sack wrote:
>
> > This atrocity and the subject header... Your so-called newsreader
> > (Google) is broken; can't even set the right charset and render the
> > accented letters correctly, not even on its own Web site.
>
> That's what happens when you cut and paste from a web page.
> It's a minor annoyance, but most of can guess and live with the
> one errant character.

Irrelevant nonsense. It is enough to go back to my first post in the
thread, look at all the diacritics and check the "Content-Type:" and the
"Content-Transfer-Encoding:" headers. Then you can do the same thing
with Sheldon's followup and draw your own conclusions. You do have to
know what charsets are, too, and what each of them contains.

ObFood: Boeuf à la mode, a recipe calling for flambéing in the middle
of the cooking. It is from _The Cooking of Provincial France_ by M.F.K.
Fischer.

Victor

Boeuf à la mode
Pot Roast of Beef Braised in Red Wine
(To serve 10 to 12)

THE BEEF
1 tablespoon salt
1 teaspoon coarsely ground black pepper
5-pound boneless beef chuck or bottom round roast at least 5 inches in
diameter, trimmed and tied

THE MARINADE
3 cups red Burgundy or other dry red wine
1 cup thinly sliced onions
3/4 cup thinly sliced carrots
1 teaspoon finely chopped garlic
2 bay leaves, crumbled
2 tablespoons finely chopped fresh parsley
1 teaspoon dried thyme, crumbled

MARINATING THE BEEF: Press 1 tablespoon of salt and 1 teaspoon of
pepper into the surface of the beef. In a large glass, porcelain or
stainless steel bowl, mix the marinade ingredients. Add the beef and
turn it in the marinade until it is well moistened on all sides. Let it
marinate for at least 6 hours at room temperature or 12 to 24 hours in
the refrigerator, turning it over every few hours.

THE ONIONS AND CARROTS À BRUN
1/2 pound fresh pork fat, diced
20 to 24 white onions, about 1 inch in diameter, peeled
6 to 8 carrots, peeled and cut into 1 1/2 -inch cylinders or olive
shapes

THE ONIONS AND CARROTS À BRUN: Preheat the oven to 350°. In a heavy
10- to 12-inch skillet, sauté the diced pork fat over moderate heat,
stirring constantly, until crisp and brown. Remove the diced pork fat
and reserve it. In the fat left in the skillet, brown the whole onions
and the carrots lightly over moderately high heat, shaking the pan
occasionally to roll them around and color them as evenly as possible.
Transfer them to a shallow baking dish large enough to hold them in one
layer, and sprinkle them with about 3 tablespoons of pork fat. (Set the
skillet aside, without removing the remaining fat.) Bake the onions and
carrots uncovered on the middle shelf of the oven, turning and basting
them once or twice, for 30 minutes, or until they are barely tender.
Remove from the oven, pour out the cooking fat and set the vegetables
aside.

THE BRAISING STOCK
4 tablespoons butter
1/3 cup Cognac
2 calf's feet and / or 1 large veal knuckle, sawed into pieces
2 medium tomatoes, peeled, seeded and coarsely chopped
Bouquet garni made of 6 parsley sprigs, 1 bay leaf and the white part of
1 leek, tied together
3 cups beef stock, fresh or canned
Salt
Freshly ground black pepper
1/2 cup finely chopped fresh parsley

BRAISING THE BEEF: While the vegetables bake or when they are done,
remove the beef from the marinade and dry it thoroughly with paper
towels. Strain the marinade into a small bowl, and drain the vegetables
on paper towels. Heat the pork fat remaining in the skillet to the
smoking point and brown the beef over moderate heat until it is richly
colored on all sides. While the beef is browning, melt 4 tablespoons of
butter in a heavy, 6-quart flameproof casserole or Dutch oven. Add the
marinated vegetables and cook over low heat, turning frequently, until
most of their moisture has boiled away and they are lightly colored.
When the beef is browned, use a bulb baster to draw off all but a thin
film of fat from the skillet.

The next step is to flame the beef. Experts simply flame the beef
with Cognac directly in the pan. But a more reliable way is to warm the
Cognac first in a small saucepan over low heat, ignite it with a match,
and pour it flaming over the beef a little at a time, shaking the
skillet gently until the flame dies. Transfer the beef to the casserole
and surround it with the pieces of calf's feet and / or veal knuckle,
the chopped tomatoes, the diced pork fat and the bouquet garni.

Pour the strained marinade and 3 cups of beef stock into the skillet,
and bring them to a boil over high heat, stirring and scraping in any
browned bits that cling to the pan. Boil briskly for 1 or 2 minutes,
then pour it into the casserole. The liquid should come about halfway up
the side of the meat; add more beef stock if needed. Bring the
casserole to a boil on top of the stove, then cover tightly and place on
the middle shelf of the oven. Regulate oven heat so the beef simmers
slowly, and turn and baste the meat 2 or 3 times during the cooking.
After 2 1/2 to 3 hours the meat should be tender when pierced with the
tip of a sharp knife.

To serve the beef and the vegetables hot, transfer the beef from the
casserole to a plate. Remove and discard the bones and bouquet garni
and strain the rest of the contents of the casserole through a large,
fine sieve into a 3- to 4-quart saucepan, pressing down hard on the
vegetables before discarding them. Let the strained braising liquid, or
sauce, settle for a few minutes, then skim as much fat as possible from
the surface. Boil the sauce briskly over high heat until it has been
reduced to half its original quantity (about 3 to 4 cups). Taste and
season with salt and pepper. Return the meat and sauce to the casserole
and add the baked onions and carrots. Simmer slowly on top of the stove
to heat the beef and vegetables thoroughly. Transfer the beef to a
carving board to remove the strings. Then arrange the roast on a large
heated platter, surrounded with the onions and carrots. Spoon some of
the sauce over it, and serve the rest separately in a warm sauceboat.

THE ASPIC FOR BOEUF À LA MODE EN GELÉE
2 to 4 cups beef stock, fresh or canned
3 envelopes unflavored gelatin
3 egg whites
1/2 teaspoon lemon juice
1/2 teaspoon dried thyme, crumbled
1/2 bay leaf
10 peppercorns
1 teaspoon salt
1/2 cup dry Madeira

BOEUF A LA MODE EN GELEE (cold pot roast of beef in aspic): To prepare
the cold version of boeuf a la mode, let the beef cool for an hour in
the braising liquid, turning it once or twice. Transfer the beef to a
platter, let it cool to room temperature, then wrap and refrigerate it.
Strain the braising liquid; cool, cover and refrigerate it. Cool, cover
and refrigerate the baked onions and carrots.

When the braising liquid is thoroughly chilled, carefully remove and
discard all of the fat that has solidified on the surface. In a 2- or
3-quart saucepan, melt the braising liquid over low heat and then
measure it. Add enough beef stock to make 5 cups in all, and return it
to the pan. Soften the gelatin in an additional 1 cup of cold fresh
stock, and add it. Beat the egg whites to a froth with a wire whisk, and
stir them into the stock, together with the lemon juice, thyme, bay
leaf, peppercorns and salt. Bring to a boil over moderate heat,
stirring constantly. When the aspic begins to froth and rise, remove
the pan from the heat. Let it rest off the heat for 5 minutes, then
strain it into a deep bowl through a fine sieve lined with a dampened
kitchen towel. Allow the aspic to drain without disturbing it at any
point. When it has drained completely through, add the Madeira, and
taste and season the aspic with more salt if needed. Pour a thin layer
of aspic -about 1/8 inch thick- into the bottom of a large serving
platter, and refrigerate it until the aspic is set. Then carve the cold
beef into 1/4-inch slices and arrange the meat, onions and carrots
attractively on the platter. Heat about 3/4 cup of the aspic in a small
pan just until it melts, then set it in a bowl filled with crushed ice
or ice cubes immersed in water. Stir the aspic gently with a metal
spoon until it thickens almost to the point of setting. Working
quickly, spread a thin glaze of aspic over the sliced beef and
vegetables. Chill until the aspic sets. Repeat this process two more
times to make three coatings of aspic melting and chilling for each
layer. Refrigerate the platter until the glaze is firm. Meanwhile, melt
the remaining aspic and pour it into a large flat roasting pan to make a
sheet or film no more than 1/4 inch deep; chill it.

When all the aspic is very firm, remove the roasting pan from the
refrigerator, and score the sheet of aspic into diamonds with the tip of
a sharp knife by cutting crossing diagonal lines about 1 to 1 1/2 inches
apart. Arrange the diamonds decoratively around the aspic-covered beef.
Chop any scraps into fine dice, and garnish the platter with it as
fancifully as you like. You can even put the chopped aspic into a
pastry bag with a plain tip and press the aspic out in scrolls on the
beef.

Steve Wertz > wrote:

> Victor Sack wrote:
>
> > Irrelevant nonsense. It is enough to go back to my first post in the
> > thread, look at all the diacritics and check the "Content-Type:" and the
> > "Content-Transfer-Encoding:" headers. Then you can do the same thing
> > with Sheldon's followup and draw your own conclusions. You do have to
> > know what charsets are, too, and what each of them contains.
>
> I think you're a charset fanatic.

You got a penny for your thoughts?

> ObFood: Chap chae for dinner.

I like those noodles added to yukkaejang, not so much by themselves.

Victor