Giusi wrote on Fri, 20 Apr 2007 09:43:37 +0200:

G> Gunner wrote:
??>> "Karen" > wrote in message
??>>
ups.com...
??>>
??>>> Pondering the use of chopsticks in western society. Since
??>>> forks, knives, spoons were invented, why do we still use
??>>> chopsticks?
??>>
??>> Becasue we can. We also do it for tradition, fun,
??>> diplomacy and business reasons . Certainly, you don't
??>> have to, but a few billion people in this world do. I see
??>> someone here has alluded to the fact you do not have to
??>> try to eat your soup with them and that most Asian foods
??>> that need to be eaten with sticks are presented precut
??>> and/ or portion sized.

G> That said, I can't imagine why permanent chopsticks aren't
G> as washable as forks. I'd think they'd get cleaner with no
G> small spaces like between the tines of a fork.

In a Japanese restaurant, it seems part of the experience to
open a packet of clean new chopsticks but, even in Japan, there
is concern about the environmental impact of all the wood used.
I believe Japanese use washable and sometimes quite elaborately
decorated chopsticks at home. Chinese, Korean and Vietnamese
custom (I think) was to use washable chopsticks both at home
and in restaurants. There has been a recent tendency to use
Japanese wrapped chopsticks in some Chinese restaurants that I
know.

I use hand-washable chopsticks for East Asian foods and my
collection has lasted a very long time. I don't like metal
chopsticks so the dishwasher is out.



James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

E-mail, with obvious alterations:
not.jim.silverton.at.comcast.not

"Steve Wertz" > wrote

> On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 00:41:54 -0400, Nancy Young wrote:
>
>> It must have been in the Marilyn Vos Savant column where I
>> read that if you switch your fork hand, your food will taste
>> different. Explanation being your food will wind up on different
>> taste buds than usual, or something along those lines.
>
> She must be a cow, then. As they tend to eat on one side or the
> other.

She didn't say her, personally, she said it's scientifically so.

nancy

In article >, "James
Silverton" <not.jim.silverton.at.comcast.not> says...
> I use hand-washable chopsticks for East Asian foods and my
> collection has lasted a very long time. I don't like metal
> chopsticks so the dishwasher is out.
>

We use the inexpensive bamboo chopsticks and put them in the dishwasher
- they last a long time.

--
Peter Aitken

Nancy Young wrote:
>he
> > chopsticks. It's really the only way. It's everything your mother taught
> > you NOT to do, which is partly why it's fun. :~)
>
> Most of the times, chopsticks look graceful. I can live forever
> not watching people slurping noodles out of a bowl, especially
> using them. Ugh.

I have never understood why so many people seem to feel a need to use them
when eating Chinese food out of a take- out box.

On Apr 19, 5:22 pm, Karen > wrote:
> On Apr 19, 1:34 pm, Cindy Hamilton >
> wrote:
>
> > Well, so am I; I'll pretend you said that with admiration.
>
> I'm not poking fun or trying to argue. Really. No offense!

I didn't really take any. I forgot the winking emoticon.

> Ancient tools are updated to modern tools all over the board. But
> chopsticks remain on the table. I'm just wondering why. I suppose
> tradition is the answer?

Ancient tools are still in use. Despite the availability of
guns, people still get stabbed. I believe obsidian knives
are favored for some types of surgery. The pneumatic
nailer hasn't replaced the hammer. Chopsticks have
enjoyed some technological improvements in manufacturing
and materials, but since the still work beautifully, they are
still in use.

> > You can't scoop up soup with a fork, either. If you
> > need to spear something when eating with chopsticks,
> > you're doing something wrong. I can handle a salmon
> > filet with chopsticks.
>
> Well, there's the invention of the spoon that one uses for soup. Of
> course, noodles slide right over the edges.

Cultures that use chopsticks also use spoons. Cultures
that use forks also use spoons. I think to bring spoons
into the discussion introduces unnecessary elements.

> > Well, don't use them, then. Ask for silverware.
>
> I could, but I don't. I really don't want to use silverware when
> everyone else is using chopsticks. So I struggle. But, then I wonder
> why many struggle?

Lack of practice. Get some chopsticks, and eat every
non-liquid with them. You'll soon become proficient.

> > I suppose you avoid the taste of metal (with wooden or
> > bamboo chopsticks, of course).
>
> Yeah, maybe.
>
> A fork does good things when eating ice cream but I always forget and
> use a spoon.

There are people who eat ice cream with something besides
a spoon? I am mogadored.

> Anyway, NOT trying to pick a fight. Just wondering why we cling to
> chopsticks when eating certain types of food. And, if those reasons
> are valid (like avoiding the taste of metal), why not use chopsticks
> exclusively, like for spaghetti, for example?

Our culture is based on the fork. If no chopsticks are presented, we
won't ask for them. I can envision a
Japanese eating spaghetti with chopsticks at home.

Cindy Hamilton

Melondy wrote:
> kilikini wrote:
>> Melondy wrote:
>>> Bob Terwilliger wrote:
>>>> Serene wrote:
>>>>
>>> Think of the difference between drinking wine in a wine glass or out
>>> of a metal cup. Some things react with metal. Acidic things clash with
>>> metal. Eating with chopsticks is a subtle thing, a gentler way of
>>> doing things, not a hurried shoveling into the mouth that can take
>>> place with forks and spoons. I've noticed that I take more time to
>>> savor my meal and appreciate each bite when using chopsticks.
>>>
>>> I also appreciate it when all the food is already the right size to
>>> place in my mouth. I don't need to cut or whittle out a piece that
>>> will fit. It's all been done for me (or by me if I cooked it earlier)
>>> I have to admit, though, that I have a habit of being a very fast
>>> eater, always the first one finished. Using chopsticks has really
>>> helped be to 'stop and taste the chicken". I've gotten pretty good at
>>> using them but I just like using them for all sorts of things. I do
>>> use spoons because I think they are indispensable for some things,
>>> but chopsticks are just seem so much more refined and thoughtful for
>>> the meal.
>>>
>>> And then there is the noise factor. With chopsticks, either wood or
>>> bamboo usually, there is no clacking against the dishes. Mealtime is
>>> only conversation, background and some well-placed slurping :-)
>>>
>>> Melondy
>>
>> Very well put, Melondy. :~)
>>
>> kili
>>
>>
>
>
> Thanks kili.
>
> It has been really nice through this subject, to find out just how many
> people like and use chopsticks. I think it's terrific. I've alwasy felt
> like a weirdo or something (well, maybe deserved for other things LOL!!)
> because I have and use chopsticks at home. Glad to find others that
> think their worth the time it takes to learn.
>
> Melondy

Oh you are by no stretch weird! We use them a lot also!

--
"I'm thinking that if this dilemma grows any more horns, I'm going to
shoot it and put it up on the wall."

- Harry Dresden

On 2007-04-20, Dave Smith > wrote:

> I have never understood why so many people seem to feel a need to use them
> when eating Chinese food out of a take- out box.

A pet peave of mine, this image of people eating out of the box with
chopsticks. It's a MYTH!! When was the last time you actually
witnissed this occurring with a real live person. Never, I bet. I
never have ...ever. Only on tv or in the movies, and then, always.
Every time. Box + chopsticks = eat. Everytime without fail. I've
never seen an actor take the food out of the box and put it on a
plate. Never! I don't know how it all began, this chopsticks/box
thing, but no one I know is that crass ...and I know some pretty crass
people.

As a goof, I tried it one time, chopsticks (which I'm pretty good
with) out of a box. It's stupid.

nb

notbob wrote:
> On 2007-04-20, Dave Smith > wrote:
>
>> I have never understood why so many people seem to feel a need to use them
>> when eating Chinese food out of a take- out box.
>
> A pet peave of mine, this image of people eating out of the box with
> chopsticks. It's a MYTH!! When was the last time you actually
> witnissed this occurring with a real live person. Never, I bet. I
> never have ...ever. Only on tv or in the movies, and then, always.
> Every time. Box + chopsticks = eat. Everytime without fail. I've
> never seen an actor take the food out of the box and put it on a
> plate. Never! I don't know how it all began, this chopsticks/box
> thing, but no one I know is that crass ...and I know some pretty crass
> people.
>
> As a goof, I tried it one time, chopsticks (which I'm pretty good
> with) out of a box. It's stupid.
>
> nb

Why is it crass and stupid?

--
"I'm thinking that if this dilemma grows any more horns, I'm going to
shoot it and put it up on the wall."

- Harry Dresden

"notbob" > wrote

> On 2007-04-20, Dave Smith > wrote:
>
>> I have never understood why so many people seem to feel a need to use
>> them
>> when eating Chinese food out of a take- out box.
>
> A pet peave of mine, this image of people eating out of the box with
> chopsticks.

I thought the same thing when Dave said that. If you watch
tv it's hip to eat out of the container with chopsticks. I guess
if a million Manhattan residents are doing that, it's all good for
the water supply.

> As a goof, I tried it one time, chopsticks (which I'm pretty good
> with) out of a box. It's stupid.

I have been known to eat cold chicken and broccoli out of the
container with a fork. Sad, but true.

nancy

On 2007-04-19, Karen > wrote:

> Why aren't chopsticks being phased out? Why do we use chopsticks for
> certain types of food?

> Just wondering.

Because they work great!

I started using chopsticks extensively about a year and a half ago.
I'd say I'm just reaching basic competency. They are so good for so many
things. Grabbing martini olives out of those tall skinny jars, eating
greasy buttered popcorn (great practice), picking the anchovies off a
pizza (I don't, but I bet they're perfect), etc.

Let's face it, the point of chopsticks (literally) is to be an
extension of your fingers. What could be more convenient and precise
than using your fingers to pick things up? Using chopsticks seems
outdated to most Westerners because they really can't use them very
well. It takes a lifetime to be truly good with chopsticks, to make
using them completely natural and without any thought, whatsoever.
But, if my early efforts are any indication, it's a skill worth
acquiring. I use them for cooking more and more. Surprisingly, one
of the hardest foods I've found to handle with them are noodles. Just
like with a fork, noodles are still a hassle.

Don't forget that Oriental style spoon. Those are a godsend. I won't
use anything else for eating soup. Western style soupspoons are an
abomination.

nb

Peter wrote on Fri, 20 Apr 2007 08:44:13 -0400:

PA> In article >,
PA> "James Silverton" <not.jim.silverton.at.comcast.not>
PA> says...
??>> I use hand-washable chopsticks for East Asian foods and my
??>> collection has lasted a very long time. I don't like metal
??>> chopsticks so the dishwasher is out.
??>>
PA> We use the inexpensive bamboo chopsticks and put them in
PA> the dishwasher - they last a long time.

You know, you are probably right! I have never machine washed
them but I have a bamboo spatula, used for non-stick pots, that
has been successfully washed at least 100 times.

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

E-mail, with obvious alterations:
not.jim.silverton.at.comcast.not

On 2007-04-20, ravenlynne > wrote:

> Why is it crass and stupid?

I also don't drink milk out of the carton. But, not to worry. It's
only my personal opinion. Feel free to disagree.

nb

Nothing stands between me and food, so I can use chopsticks or a fork.

When I eat Pho, I use chopsticks, so I can eat the long, vermicelli
noodles. Not sure how else I could eat it.

Becca

"James Silverton" wrote:
> >
> In a Japanese restaurant, it seems part of the experience to
> open a packet of clean new chopsticks but, even in Japan, there
> is concern about the environmental impact of all the wood used.

Wood is the most renewable resource on the planet, wood is essentially
solar energy, in fact all forms of energy we use today was once wood
(plant matter). And bamboo renews itself faster than humans can use
it, and far, far more bamboo is employed other than for chopsticks...
it makes as much sense to claim cutting bamboo is a waste of wood as
it is to claim lawnmowing is a waste of wood, both are grass, not
wood. A million sets of bamboo/wood chopsticks has far less impact on
the environment than producing just one stainless steel teaspoon.

Folks used to think that the computer would reduce the amount of paper
used, ergo saving trees, in fact the computer has increased the use of
paper by more than a hundred fold.. but so what, trees used for paper
manufacture are farmed... no trees are wasted... in fact tree farming
ensures that huge tracts of land remain forested, ergo land that is
properly managed does not become barren.

Sheldon

On Apr 19, 11:41�pm, "Nancy Young" > wrote:
> "Serene-y the Meanie" > wrote
>
> > Bob Terwilliger wrote:
> >> I'm thinking that your perception that food tastes better when eaten with
> >> chopsticks has a large "self-fulfilling prophecy" component. Food tastes
> >> the
> >> same to me regardless of whether I eat it with chopsticks or with a fork.
>
> > Same here, and it never would have even occurred to me that the utensil
> > would affect the flavor.
>
> It must have been in the Marilyn Vos Savant column where I
> read that if you switch your fork hand, your food will taste
> different. *Explanation being your food will wind up on different
> taste buds than usual, or something along those lines.
>
> I didn't notice any change.
>
> nancy

Long ago, when the rocks were young , I lived in Hawaii for several
years. An acquaintance whose husband was the highest ranking Hawaiian
in the military ( she always mentioned this when meeting someone
LOL ), told me the real test of eating with chopsticks was eating, of
all things a TACO!!! Never did master that
Rosie

On 2007-04-20, Nancy Young > wrote:

> I have been known to eat cold chicken and broccoli out of the
> container with a fork. Sad, but true.


Here's my take on eating/drinking out of the container and other
semi-scientific observations.

I do not eat out of containers that I am not sure I will finish off or
empty. Why? Contamination. I'm no germ fanatic or obsessive
cleanliness freak, but I do know if you eat something out of a
container and continue moving the eating utensil back and forth from
your mouth to the container, you are introducing germs, bacteria,
stuff, whatever (obviously, I'm no ER star) back into the food. This
is not rocket science, just common sense. Those bio-bugs will grow on
the food and spoil it faster than if I didn't. A simple basic fact.

Some items, like tomato based foods, I will not even contaminate with
non-mouth/hand stuff. For example, when I spoon salsa from its
container (fresh, canned, whatever), that spoon will touch nothing but
that salsa. This makes for a salsa that will last that much longer in
the fridge. In fact, when making tacos, burritos, etc, each ingredient
gets its own spoon. No cross pollination. This way, the salsa,
guacamole, sour cream, etc, will keep longer than items that have been
tainted.

Like I said, I'm no clean-freak. It's just basic economics. The
longer something I've already purchased lasts, the less often I have
to toss out the spoiled remains and buy some more. Bottom line, money
saved.

nb

In article .com>,
says...
> Long ago, when the rocks were young , I lived in Hawaii for several
> years. An acquaintance whose husband was the highest ranking Hawaiian
> in the military ( she always mentioned this when meeting someone
> LOL ), told me the real test of eating with chopsticks was eating, of
> all things a TACO!!! Never did master that
> Rosie
>


About 5 years ago our daughter's high school hosted a group of exchange
students from Japan. One the last day, at the farewell dinner, one of
the entertainments was a chopstick contest in which three of the local
kids competed to move oiled ping-pong balls from one bowl to another
with chopsticks. Our daughter, who thanks to her Japanese stepmother has
been using chopsticks since age 4, won by a huge margin.


--
Peter Aitken

On Apr 20, 3:19 am, Melondy > wrote:
> Traditionally Thais use spoons for most foods. They use chopsticks for
> noodles, in or out of soup. They left off using chopsticks when they
> were introduced to Western utensils in the 18th or 19th century. Think
> King and I. But they really don't like the crudeness of forks and
> stabbing food, and letting sauce dribble between the tines. So Spoons it is.

I heard that it was bad manners to stab food with a chopstick.

Karen

Gunner <gunner@ spam.com> wrote:

>Where did you go in Korea Steve to encounter Brass colored cutlery?

Lotte's, most likely.

Steve

Steve Wertz > wrote:

>On Thu, 19 Apr 2007 21:21:57 +0000 (UTC), Steve Pope wrote:

>> Have you tried Korean spoons? They are metal and flat/shallow.
>
>AKA "regular" American spoons ;-)

Similar, except the bowl of the spoon is circular and not oval,
and the spoon/handle angle is shallow (nearly absent).

>My lips need to be able to surround the spoon. Can you imagine
>trying to eat custard (e.g.) with one of those ceramic spoons? Or
>with chopsticks?

Yeah I don't order custard in Chinese restaurants.

Steve
>-sw

On Apr 20, 4:53 am, Peter A > wrote:
> To be frank, you are coming across in this thread as not really being
> interested in other peoples' opinions but just wanting justification for
> your own. If you don't like using chopsticks, then don't. Why should you
> care what other people are using?

You're kidding, right? Or just trying to pick a fight.

Nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, the opinions
expressed in this thread has helped me to understand the egocentricity
that I have.

sheesh

Karen

In article >,
says...
> On 2007-04-20, Nancy Young > wrote:
>
> > I have been known to eat cold chicken and broccoli out of the
> > container with a fork. Sad, but true.
>
>
> Here's my take on eating/drinking out of the container and other
> semi-scientific observations.
>
> I do not eat out of containers that I am not sure I will finish off or
> empty. Why? Contamination. I'm no germ fanatic or obsessive
> cleanliness freak, but I do know if you eat something out of a
> container and continue moving the eating utensil back and forth from
> your mouth to the container, you are introducing germs, bacteria,
> stuff, whatever (obviously, I'm no ER star) back into the food. This
> is not rocket science, just common sense. Those bio-bugs will grow on
> the food and spoil it faster than if I didn't. A simple basic fact.
>
> Some items, like tomato based foods, I will not even contaminate with
> non-mouth/hand stuff. For example, when I spoon salsa from its
> container (fresh, canned, whatever), that spoon will touch nothing but
> that salsa. This makes for a salsa that will last that much longer in
> the fridge. In fact, when making tacos, burritos, etc, each ingredient
> gets its own spoon. No cross pollination. This way, the salsa,
> guacamole, sour cream, etc, will keep longer than items that have been
> tainted.
>
> Like I said, I'm no clean-freak. It's just basic economics. The
> longer something I've already purchased lasts, the less often I have
> to toss out the spoiled remains and buy some more. Bottom line, money
> saved.
>
> nb
>

You say that you are no "germ freak" and then describe behaviors that
are almost the definition of a germ freak.

--
Peter Aitken

On Apr 20, 12:33 am, "Gunner" <gunner@ spam.com> wrote:
> Yes, this is the one very real issue you bring to the table, which BTW the
> Chinese at least are addressing. I believe many of the other Asian
> countries will follow suite on this. This use of Bamboo chopsticks talk
> sounds Eco-friendly, but not it is factual. Most hygiene (disposable)
> chopsticks are not Bamboo as you maybe lead to believe by reading here.
> The issue is the logging of the 25+ million trees in China to make close to
> 50 Billion chopsticks annually. We are not talking bamboo here. China has
> recently imposed a tax on disposable chopsticks in an effort slow logging in
> their country.

It seems like the disposable chopsticks have a little texture, less
slipperyness, to them, which helps the food stay on the sticks a
little longer. The chopsticks that are reusable have a finer finish
which is harder to get used to. I think this may be one reason why the
disposable kind are appreciated.

Karen

On Apr 20, 8:59 am, notbob > wrote:
> Here's my take on eating/drinking out of the container and other
> semi-scientific observations.
>
> I do not eat out of containers that I am not sure I will finish off or
> empty. Why? Contamination. I'm no germ fanatic or obsessive
> cleanliness freak, but I do know if you eat something out of a
> container and continue moving the eating utensil back and forth from
> your mouth to the container, you are introducing germs, bacteria,
> stuff, whatever (obviously, I'm no ER star) back into the food. This
> is not rocket science, just common sense. Those bio-bugs will grow on
> the food and spoil it faster than if I didn't. A simple basic fact.
>
> Some items, like tomato based foods, I will not even contaminate with
> non-mouth/hand stuff. For example, when I spoon salsa from its
> container (fresh, canned, whatever), that spoon will touch nothing but
> that salsa. This makes for a salsa that will last that much longer in
> the fridge. In fact, when making tacos, burritos, etc, each ingredient
> gets its own spoon. No cross pollination. This way, the salsa,
> guacamole, sour cream, etc, will keep longer than items that have been
> tainted.
>
> Like I said, I'm no clean-freak. It's just basic economics. The
> longer something I've already purchased lasts, the less often I have
> to toss out the spoiled remains and buy some more. Bottom line, money
> saved.

Clean Freak!

(j/k)

Karen

On 2007-04-20, Peter A > wrote:

> You say that you are no "germ freak" and then describe behaviors that
> are almost the definition of a germ freak.

.....while your typically petty and/or personal responses reflect the
behavior of a troll.

nb

In article .com>,
says...
> On Apr 20, 4:53 am, Peter A > wrote:
> > To be frank, you are coming across in this thread as not really being
> > interested in other peoples' opinions but just wanting justification for
> > your own. If you don't like using chopsticks, then don't. Why should you
> > care what other people are using?
>
> You're kidding, right? Or just trying to pick a fight.
>
> Nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, the opinions
> expressed in this thread has helped me to understand the egocentricity
> that I have.
>

Glad to hear that I was wrong - but that *IS* the way you have been
coming across, even though not accurate.

chopsticks. I have a couple of pairs of what I call "cooking
chopsticks" that are about 50% longer than the usual "eating"
chopsticks. They are very useful in all sorts of cooking, from
manipulating food during deep frying to stirring pasta (and pulling a
piece out to test it for doneness).

--
Peter Aitken

On 2007-04-20, Karen > wrote:

> Clean Freak!
>
> (j/k)

Nope. Just cheap.

nb

"notbob" > wrote

> On 2007-04-20, Nancy Young > wrote:
>
>> I have been known to eat cold chicken and broccoli out of the
>> container with a fork. Sad, but true.

> Here's my take on eating/drinking out of the container and other
> semi-scientific observations.
>
> I do not eat out of containers that I am not sure I will finish off or
> empty. Why? Contamination. I'm no germ fanatic or obsessive
> cleanliness freak, but I do know if you eat something out of a
> container and continue moving the eating utensil back and forth from
> your mouth to the container, you are introducing germs, bacteria,
> stuff, whatever (obviously, I'm no ER star) back into the food.

I don't worry about that, because I stab the fork into a piece
of broccoli, then take the broccoli off with my teeth. No
problemo, no germs exhanged.

> Some items, like tomato based foods, I will not even contaminate with
> non-mouth/hand stuff. For example, when I spoon salsa from its
> container (fresh, canned, whatever), that spoon will touch nothing but
> that salsa. This makes for a salsa that will last that much longer in
> the fridge. In fact, when making tacos, burritos, etc, each ingredient
> gets its own spoon. No cross pollination. This way, the salsa,
> guacamole, sour cream, etc, will keep longer than items that have been
> tainted.

I had no idea people did it any other way. I sure don't want stuff
in my sour cream. The only exception is if I commandeer a pint
of the stuff for potato chips, that will be mine, with potato chip
crumbs in it.

nancy

On Apr 20, 6:07 am, Cindy Hamilton >
wrote:
> Our culture is based on the fork. If no chopsticks are presented, we
> won't ask for them. I can envision a
> Japanese eating spaghetti with chopsticks at home.

I have a friend at work, second generation Japanese-American, grew up
in Honolulu, who just told me that she eats spaghetti with a fork.
Uses chopsticks for Asian food, and fork/knife/spoon for Western food.

She cooks with chopsticks, says she doesn't like the "metal" to touch
the food, and that plastic would melt, so chopsticks is her favorite
tool.

It's interesting, isn't it, the use of utensils?

Karen

On Apr 20, 4:53 am, Peter A > wrote:
> That's true, but so what?
>
> To be frank, you are coming across in this thread as not really being
> interested in other peoples' opinions but just wanting justification for
> your own. If you don't like using chopsticks, then don't. Why should you
> care what other people are using?

Actually, I'm being much more open-minded than you insinuate. It's not
that I'm arguing the subject, it's a conversation. In fact, I have a
better understanding of why chopsticks are used by Western people. I
appreciate the opinions expressed, but I find your judgement unkind
and unwarranted.

Karen

On Apr 20, 10:19 am, Karen > wrote:
> Actually, I'm being much more open-minded than you insinuate. It's not
> that I'm arguing the subject, it's a conversation. In fact, I have a
> better understanding of why chopsticks are used by Western people. I
> appreciate the opinions expressed, but I find your judgement unkind
> and unwarranted.

Meant to say "After readings the opinions expressed on this thread, I
NOW have a better understanding of why chopsticks are being used by
Western people."

Karen

In article .com>,
says...
> It seems like the disposable chopsticks have a little texture, less
> slipperyness, to them, which helps the food stay on the sticks a
> little longer. The chopsticks that are reusable have a finer finish
> which is harder to get used to. I think this may be one reason why the
> disposable kind are appreciated.
>

You are exactly correct, and your observation suggests that you have
been paying more attention to chopsticks than most people.

As I have said in other messages, the fact that they are "disposable"
does not mean that you have to throw them out. They can be washed
(including the dishwasher) and re-used dozens of times.

We have many lovely "fancy" chopsticks that have gorgeous designs on
them, thin pointy tips, and a very slick surface. They are very
difficult to eat with, and we almost never use them.

--
Peter Aitken

In article .com>,
says...
> > To be frank, you are coming across in this thread as not really being
> > interested in other peoples' opinions but just wanting justification for
> > your own. If you don't like using chopsticks, then don't. Why should you
> > care what other people are using?
>
> Actually, I'm being much more open-minded than you insinuate. It's not
> that I'm arguing the subject, it's a conversation. In fact, I have a
> better understanding of why chopsticks are used by Western people. I
> appreciate the opinions expressed, but I find your judgement unkind
> and unwarranted.
>
> Karen
>

This is the second time you have responded to the same message of mine.
Don't you think once was enough, particularly given my friendly answer
to your first response?


--
Peter Aitken

On Apr 20, 9:34 am, Peter A > wrote:
> Glad to hear that I was wrong - but that *IS* the way you have been
> coming across, even though not accurate.

I would like to know where I've come across that way.

It seems to me that I have asked for opinions and based and the
question was on history and culture and efficiency. After the opinions
have come in, I have asked for personal jabs to be dismissed (not an
argument!), I have come to a conclusion that my preconceptions have
been snobbish.

Several instances I have expressed egocentricity of a Western mind,
and supported tradition and science. Why you would say I've come
across as justifying my own opinion, not interested in others'
opinions, and telling me not to use them if I don't want to, well,
show me why I've not been anything but a cordial participant.

Karen

On Apr 20, 10:28 am, Peter A > wrote:
> This is the second time you have responded to the same message of mine.
> Don't you think once was enough, particularly given my friendly answer
> to your first response?

I responded twice in error. I apologize.

Yes, you've been friendly, but still say I'm trying to force my
opinion as your final word, and I'm not.

Karen

rosie wrote:
> On Apr 19, 11:41?pm, "Nancy Young" > wrote:
>> "Serene-y the Meanie" > wrote
>>
>>> Bob Terwilliger wrote:
>>>> I'm thinking that your perception that food tastes better when
>>>> eaten with chopsticks has a large "self-fulfilling prophecy"
>>>> component. Food tastes the
>>>> same to me regardless of whether I eat it with chopsticks or with
>>>> a fork.
>>
>>> Same here, and it never would have even occurred to me that the
>>> utensil would affect the flavor.
>>
>> It must have been in the Marilyn Vos Savant column where I
>> read that if you switch your fork hand, your food will taste
>> different. Explanation being your food will wind up on different
>> taste buds than usual, or something along those lines.
>>
>> I didn't notice any change.
>>
>> nancy
>
> Long ago, when the rocks were young , I lived in Hawaii for several
> years. An acquaintance whose husband was the highest ranking Hawaiian
> in the military ( she always mentioned this when meeting someone
> LOL ), told me the real test of eating with chopsticks was eating, of
> all things a TACO!!! Never did master that
> Rosie

Wow, I never thought to try chopsticks on a taco. I use them for steak,
ribs, chicken, egg rolls, wontons, why not a taco? I'm going to have to try
it. :~)

kili

In article .com>,
says...
> I responded twice in error. I apologize.
>
> Yes, you've been friendly, but still say I'm trying to force my
> opinion as your final word, and I'm not.
>
>
>

As I said, I was mistaken. Let's drop it.

--
Peter Aitken

Melondy wrote:

> It has been really nice through this subject, to find out just how many
> people like and use chopsticks. I think it's terrific. I've alwasy felt
> like a weirdo or something (well, maybe deserved for other things LOL!!)
> because I have and use chopsticks at home. Glad to find others that
> think their worth the time it takes to learn.
>
> Melondy

A Korean woman I know (who taught me to cook many Korean dishes) will
use her long cooking chopsticks to fry with and she was quite fast and
adept! I doubt I could do any better with a spatula for stir frying?

On Apr 20, 1:17 pm, Karen > wrote:
>
> I have a friend at work, second generation Japanese-American, grew up
> in Honolulu, who just told me that she eats spaghetti with a fork.
> Uses chopsticks for Asian food, and fork/knife/spoon for Western food.
>
> She cooks with chopsticks, says she doesn't like the "metal" to touch
> the food, and that plastic would melt, so chopsticks is her favorite
> tool.
>
> It's interesting, isn't it, the use of utensils?

Yep. So much of it comes down to personal preference.

I'm pretty pragmatic. If I'm given chopsticks, I use them.
If there's a fork sitting there, I use it. At home, I can't
be bothered to hunt down the chopsticks, so I use a
fork for everything.

In cooking, there are things for which I just prefer to use
a wooden spoon, in preference to heat-resistant
plastic or steel.

Cindy Hamilton

On 2007-04-20, kilikini > wrote:

> We've got some like that, too. They are beautiful, but with such a slick
> surface -

I've noticed some of the better Japanese chopsticks ...what I take to
be "fancy"... now have a stippled texture on the pointy food-gripping
end. I also notice most of these are still square (but with nicely
rounded corners) and mostly slick at the hand-holding end. I figure
round-eyes trying to learn to use chopsticks should have access to
sticks with medium knurling the full length of the stick. Do I see a
market niche, here?

nb