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espresso machine recommendations??
Any thoughts on the following:
I'm in the market for a compact-model espresso machine, one that reliably produces high-quality espresso, in small amounts (say one or two espresso cups at a time). It does not need to have an integral milk steamer or coffee grinder (although separately, I'm interested in knowing what sort of grinder is best, as I know my current coffee grinder cannot grind the stuff fine enough). Any idea what I should buy among currently available models? Thanks, Steve |
espresso machine recommendations??
(Steve Pope) wrote:
> Any thoughts on the following: > > I'm in the market for a compact-model espresso machine, > one that reliably produces high-quality espresso, in > small amounts (say one or two espresso cups at a time). > It does not need to have an integral milk steamer or > coffee grinder (although separately, I'm interested in > knowing what sort of grinder is best, as I know my > current coffee grinder cannot grind the stuff fine enough). > > Any idea what I should buy among currently available > models? No matter how much you spend nothing will perform better than this: http://www.amazon.com/Bialetti-Moka-...4527692&sr=8-4 Next you need good water (coffee is 99.999pct H20) without good water no matter how much you spend on coffee it will taste like crap. You need a decent burr mill, how much you spend depends on your budget... after a point (about $150) they don't get noticably better no matter how much more you spend. Of course you can always go cultish-egoist, just open your wallet, open your cheeks, spread em wide. |
espresso machine recommendations??
Sheldon > wrote:
>No matter how much you spend nothing will perform better than this: >http://www.amazon.com/Bialetti-Moka-...4527692&sr=8-4 Heh. The apartment we just stayed in, in Rome, had a similar unit in its kitchen and it worked quite well. >Next you need good water (coffee is 99.999pct H20) without good water >no matter how much you spend on coffee it will taste like crap. Have a Brita filter unit. >You need a decent burr mill, how much you spend depends on your >budget... after a point (about $150) they don't get noticably better >no matter how much more you spend. Right, the burr grinder is on my list. Anything in particular I should look for? Steve |
espresso machine recommendations??
Steve Pope wrote:
> > > I'm in the market for a compact-model espresso machine, > one that reliably produces high-quality espresso, in > small amounts (say one or two espresso cups at a time). > It does not need to have an integral milk steamer or > coffee grinder (although separately, I'm interested in > knowing what sort of grinder is best, as I know my > current coffee grinder cannot grind the stuff fine enough). > > Any idea what I should buy among currently available > models? I have tried several over the years. The best hs been a Krupps and Braun was a close second. Krupps was also the best value. An appliance repairman convinced me it was not worth spending a lot of money on one because they all screw up eventually and they are hard to get parts for. No use spending $500 or more on one when a $150 machine will do the same job because the extra money does not guarantee better coffee or a longer life, just a more expensive piece of trash when it quits. |
espresso machine recommendations??
Steve Pope wrote:
> > Any idea what I should buy among currently available > models? This is the most common question in alt.coffee. The answer varies with time, so ask there to get the current best answer. Last time I looked, it was the Capresso Infinity grinder and Gaggia Carezza espresso machine. But ask again, because this information may be stale. |
espresso machine recommendations??
Thanks, Mark and Dave for your input.
S. |
espresso machine recommendations??
In article . com>,
"Sheldon" > wrote: > No matter how much you spend nothing will perform better than this: > http://www.amazon.com/Bialetti-Moka-...ref=pd_bbs_4/1 > 02-2462282-7529725?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1174527692&sr=8-4 Sure, and there's no difference between Camembert and Gouda. Sheldon persists in this disinformation campaign. There's nothing wrong with Moka pots. Zillions of Italians use them. I have one, too. I also have a pump espresso machine. Most people with more than two functioning tastebuds can tell the difference between the coffee made in these devices. A food chemist can explain that they are very different products, produced under very different thermodynamic conditions. > Of course you can always go cultish-egoist, just open your wallet If you only brew espresso for mixing with water or milk (cappucinos, lattes, Americanos), then a moka pot or other steam-based gizmo might be all you need. But if you like the taste, aroma, and texture of real espresso in straight shots, a pump machine might be worth considering. I'm out of date on current products, but I second the recommendation to check the articles in alt.coffee. -- Julian Vrieslander |
espresso machine recommendations??
(Steve Pope) wrote:
> Sheldon wrote: > >No matter how much you spend nothing will perform better than this: > >http://www.amazon.com/Bialetti-Moka-...000CF3Q6/ref=p.... > > Heh. *The apartment we just stayed in, in Rome, had a similar > unit in its kitchen and it worked quite well. Read the cutomer reviews. Of course if you have more dollars than brain cells you can go for one of the *machines*, all useless bells and whistles, and there is no limit to how much jewelry can be hung on to achieve *the look*, remember, it's only appearance, serves no function whatsoever. > >Next you need good water (coffee is 99.999pct H20) without good water > >no matter how much you spend on coffee it will taste like crap. > > Have a Brita filter unit. Better than nothing, but a reverse osmosis filter is best... and never set up any coffee brewer the night before, the water will go stale (will lose oxygen, and oxygen is what permits you to taste. > >You need a decent burr mill, how much you spend depends on your > >budget... after a point (about $150) they don't get noticably better > >no matter how much more you spend. > > Right, the burr grinder is on my list. *Anything in particular > I should look for? I have a Solis Maestro, wasn't expensive (about $140) and works like a charm... been used every day since 2000, still works like new, and requires very little attention, just clean the burr every few months. All burr grinders are kinda messy (static electricity), some say adding a few drops of water with the beans is a remedy, don't you believe it... best to have a small brush handy to sweep up the stray grounds. Don't buy any coffee brewer with a built in mill, not unless you don't mind spending your life cleaning... plus none of those contain a very good mill, and when any part of a combo unit dies it's all trash. You can spend a lot more if you're into *the look* but then when it dies you'll just have a much more expensive pile of junk. http://www.aabreecoffee.com/Solis.cf...oogleAAB-Solis Sheldon |
espresso machine recommendations??
Julian Vrieslander wrote:
> "Sheldon" wrote: > > No matter how much you spend nothing will perform better than this: > >http://www.amazon.com/Bialetti-Moka-...000CF3Q6/ref=p.... > > 02-2462282-7529725?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1174527692&sr=8-4 > > Sure, and there's no difference between Camembert and Gouda. Idiot, that's apples and oranges... which proves why you know nothing about coffee, or anything else. > Sheldon persists in this disinformation campaign. *There's nothing wrong > with Moka pots. *Zillions of Italians use them. *I have one, too. *I > also have a pump espresso machine. *Most people with more than two > functioning tastebuds can tell the difference between the coffee made in > these devices. *A food chemist can explain that they are very different > products, produced under very different thermodynamic conditions. > > > Of course you can always go cultish-egoist, just open your wallet > > If you only brew espresso for mixing with water or milk (cappucinos, > lattes, Americanos), then a moka pot or other steam-based gizmo might be > all you need. > > But if you like the taste, aroma, and texture of real espresso in > straight shots, a pump machine might be worth considering. *I'm out of > date on current products, but I second the recommendation to check the > articles in alt.coffee. Those imbeciles know nothing, absolutely nothing. Anyone reads the history of coffee will learn that espresso was developed as a way to use the crappy moldy beans by over roasting. Those burned beans were then given to the peasants to keep then from rioting, because they were already addicted to caffeine. Espresso in of itself is garbage coffee anyway, no way to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear... it's all cultish blind belief nonsense. The best anyone can do is keep it simple and use good water. Doesn't matter how much is spent on coffee beans and equipment, how much one plays witch doctor by roasting their own, if the water sucks so will the coffee. Very few coffee cultists know anything about the water, with all their noise about expensive equipment hardly any invest in an RO filtration system, and the water is everything. And the thing about those machines is it's impossible to clean their plumbing, so even if one does use good water all those machines can produce is ****. The Bialetti-Moka type unit can be scrupulously cleaned each time it's used, nothing, NOTHING produces better espresso. Too bad about yoose coffee newsgroupies that you can't have a ****ing contest over the Bialetti-Moka, it's *simply* the best[period] Sheldon |
espresso machine recommendations??
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espresso machine recommendations??
Sheldon > wrote:
>Those imbeciles know nothing, absolutely nothing. Anyone reads the >history of coffee will learn that espresso was developed as a way to >use the crappy moldy beans by over roasting. Those burned beans were >then given to the peasants to keep then from rioting, because they >were already addicted to caffeine. Espresso in of itself is garbage >coffee anyway, no way to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear... it's >all cultish blind belief nonsense. The best anyone can do is keep it >simple and use good water. Doesn't matter how much is spent on coffee >beans and equipment, how much one plays witch doctor by roasting their >own, if the water sucks so will the coffee. Oh, okay. So you don't know jill about coffee it turns out. Steve |
espresso machine recommendations??
On Mar 22, 4:23�pm, (Steve Pope) wrote:
> Sheldon > wrote: > >Those imbeciles know nothing, absolutely nothing. *Anyone reads the > >history of coffee will learn that espresso was developed as a way to > >use the crappy moldy beans by over roasting. *Those burned beans were > >then given to the peasants to keep then from rioting, because they > >were already addicted to caffeine. *Espresso in of itself is garbage > >coffee anyway, no way to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear... it's > >all cultish blind belief nonsense. *The best anyone can do is keep it > >simple and use good water. *Doesn't matter how much is spent on coffee > >beans and equipment, how much one plays witch doctor by roasting their > >own, if the water sucks so will the coffee. * > > Oh, okay. *So you don't know jill about coffee it turns out. But you're the one who asked... and somehow a few hours passes and you're an expert, jerk. |
espresso machine recommendations??
Sheldon > wrote:
>On Mar 22, 4:23�pm, (Steve Pope) wrote: >> >Those imbeciles know nothing, absolutely nothing. *Anyone reads the >> >history of coffee will learn that espresso was developed as a way to >> >use the crappy moldy beans by over roasting. *Those burned beans were >> >then given to the peasants to keep then from rioting, because they >> >were already addicted to caffeine. *Espresso in of itself is garbage >> >coffee anyway, no way to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear... it's >> >all cultish blind belief nonsense. *The best anyone can do is keep it >> >simple and use good water. *Doesn't matter how much is spent on coffee >> >beans and equipment, how much one plays witch doctor by roasting their >> >own, if the water sucks so will the coffee. * >> Oh, okay. *So you don't know jill about coffee it turns out. >But you're the one who asked... and somehow a few hours passes and >you're an expert, jerk. "Espresso is in and of itself garbage coffee". Because it's "burned". Uh-huh. This is truly one of the common falsehoods that food neophytes somehow latch onto an keep repeating, right up there with "Mexican food in California is not authentic" or "all deep-fried food is too greasy". There's plenty of bad espresso out there, consider just possibly you haven't encountered the good stuff? Steve |
espresso machine recommendations??
Steve Pope wrote:
> > > There's plenty of bad espresso out there, consider just possibly > you haven't encountered the good stuff? My neighbours are Italian. They still have a house over there and spend a few months each year back home. They brought me some espesso a few months ago. It was a heck of a lot better than what I get here. |
espresso machine recommendations??
(Steve Pope) wrote:
> > you haven't encountered the good stuff? The good stuff... that's a definition?... you haven't a clue what espresso IS, moron. http://www.nationalgeographic.com/coffee/roasts.html Italian, espresso Roaster Watch: After 14 minutes or so the beans grow quiet and begin to smoke. Having carmelized, the bean sugars begin to carbonize. Surface: Very oily Flavor: Smokey; tastes primarily of roasting, *not* of the inherent flavor of the bean --- Espresso existed hundreds of years before the first espresso machine. Today most folk fiddle with their methodology so that they don't really drink espresso... true espresso is burned beans, crappy beans salvaged by burning, reminescent of the acridness of burned tires (which is why folks say Star Bucks sells burned coffee, no they do not, they sell close to the real deal, yoose just don't like espresso). Naturally the concept can't be absorbed by the sealed minded ritualistic cultists. This all came about in Italy because at first coffee was banned as being sinful (after all, caffeine is a narcotic), no different from how the gubermint looks at pot. Then the Pope tried it and blessed it, but the gubermint didn't have enough to go around, so they hoarded all the GOOD STUFF for the wealthy and metted out the crap to the peasants, who discovered by roasting till burnt they made it salvageable. Hardly anyone likes espresso at first, it's an acquired taste, same as tobacco and pot... nearly everyone chokes on their first drags. One day the gubermint will legalize pot, but will keep all the GOOD STUFF for themselves. This is not a fairy tale. National Geographic ran a TV special about coffee about twenty years ago, occasionally there are reruns on the public service stations. There are many foods/drinks that an awful lot of folks think really suck big time, doesn't mean they're bad. But don't water it down and add stuff until you find it palatable and then still call it the real deal... latte is tantamount to strawberry licorice. I really love real licorice, the stronger and blacker the better... hate that red crap. I don't mind an occasional espresso, but as soon as anything is added, even a lemon peel or pernod, it's no longer espresso. If yoose add dairy and sweetener you're really a wuss. Even in Italy, real espresso is difficult to find. The last time I knew of an Italian restaurant in NY's Little Italy that served the real deal was thirty years ago... now it's all wussed down to even above a true French roast. Sheldon |
espresso machine recommendations??
Sheldon > wrote:
>Flavor: Smokey; tastes primarily of roasting, *not* of the inherent >flavor of the bean "Primarily" is a little squirrely. The palate can distinguish between "smoked" flavors and coffee flavors, both of which are present. Your statement is akin to saying BBQ ribs taste primarily of smoke and not of meat. It ain't necessarily so, and even if it is true you still may have a combination of flavors. >Espresso existed hundreds of years before the first espresso machine. >Today most folk fiddle with their methodology so that they don't >really drink espresso... true espresso is burned beans, crappy beans >salvaged by burning, reminescent of the acridness of burned tires We can quibble about terminology. What the Italians call caffe', and which need not resemble your description, is produced in what Americans generally call an espresso machine, which is what I was inquiring about. Common usage of "espresso" in the U.S. does not correspond to your "true espresso" definition, which I suspect has very few adherents. Do you really think I was talking about coffee which tastes of the "acridness of burned tires" when I first posted? Get a grip Sheldon. But I *am* talking about a form of coffee that requires and espresso machine to make. >Even in Italy, real espresso is difficult to find. Yes, well you will note they do not call their coffee "espresso" either. Sheesh. Steve |
espresso machine recommendations??
(Steve Pope) wrote:
> Sheldon wrote: > >Flavor: Smokey; tastes primarily of roasting, *not* of the inherent > >flavor of the bean > > "Primarily" is a little squirrely. * You're what's squirrely... an hour ago you're asking for help and now you're a coffee maven... what you are is an ignoranus troll. |
espresso machine recommendations??
Sheldon > wrote:
>> Sheldon wrote: >> >Flavor: Smokey; tastes primarily of roasting, *not* of the inherent >> >flavor of the bean >> "Primarily" is a little squirrely. * >You're what's squirrely... an hour ago you're asking for help and now >you're a coffee maven... what you are is an ignoranus troll. I asked for recommendations on espresso machines. This does not mean I don't know anything about coffee and/or espresso, it does mean I'm willing to learn more about currently available espresso machines. Is that too much to ask? I'm perfectly willing to believe that what I want to come out of the espresso machine doesn't meet your definition of "espresso". And even that your definition is the correct one. Still, what I'm after cannot come out of any other sort of coffee maker, so I still need an espresso machine to make it, misnomer may that be. Steve |
espresso machine recommendations??
(Steve Pope) wrote:
> Sheldon wrote: > >> Sheldon wrote: > >> >Flavor: Smokey; tastes primarily of roasting, *not* of the inherent > >> >flavor of the bean > >> "Primarily" is a little squirrely. * > >You're what's squirrely... an hour ago you're asking for help and now > >you're a coffee maven... what you are is an ignoranus troll. > > I asked for recommendations on espresso machines. *This does > not mean I don't know anything about coffee and/or espresso, it > does mean I'm willing to learn more about currently available > espresso machines. *Is that too much to ask? > > I'm perfectly willing to believe that what I want to come out of > the espresso machine doesn't meet your definition of "espresso". > And even that your definition is the correct one. > Still, what I'm after cannot come out of any other sort of coffee > maker, so I still need an espresso machine to make it, misnomer > may that be. You know nothing about anything, you low IQ imbecile... you don't belong on a cooking newsgroup, you have nothing to contribute, all you do is take... actually you pilfer. You only asked for a recommendation for a burr grinder, you were offered that. That you were offered much more informtation than you bargained for should be considered a bonus. Normal brained folks would have said "Thank you", but not a prig such as yourself. You are an ingrate. Glad to not have made your acquaintance. Sheldon |
espresso machine recommendations??
Sheldon > wrote:
> Normal brained folks would have said "Thank you", but not a prig > such as yourself. You could back and look and notice that I said "thank you" to those who replied to my query. Possibly, you're too busy frothing to read carefully. Steve |
espresso machine recommendations??
On 2007-03-23, Steve Pope > wrote:
> I'm perfectly willing to believe that what I want to come out of > the espresso machine doesn't meet your definition of "espresso". > And even that your definition is the correct one. His definition of espresso couldn't be more wrong. Typical for Sheltie. That eleventy million Italians drink moka pot coffee is no more a valid criteria for good espresso than the millions of Americans who drink Dunkin Donuts or 7-11 and call it good coffee or Budweiser and Miller and call it good beer. No one who knows and really enjoys great espresso still roasts quality espresso bean blends (espresso is *NOT* a roast!) to a greasy charcoal end. Bottom line, you wanna taste the real deal, you're going to have to spend some money and learn some skills (what a shock! ...kinda like cooking). You want to drink crap and call people names, follow Shelby's advice. nb nb |
espresso machine recommendations??
On Mar 22, 9:44�pm, notbob > wrote:
> On 2007-03-23, Steve Pope > wrote: > > > I'm perfectly willing to believe that what I want to come out of > > the espresso machine doesn't meet your definition of "espresso". > > And even that your definition is the correct one. > > His definition of espresso couldn't be more wrong. *Typical for > Sheltie. *That eleventy million Italians drink moka pot coffee is no > more a valid criteria for good espresso than the millions of Americans > who drink Dunkin Donuts or 7-11 and call it good coffee or Budweiser > and Miller and call it good beer. *No one who knows and really enjoys > great espresso still roasts quality espresso bean blends (espresso is > *NOT* a roast!) to a greasy charcoal end. *Bottom line, you wanna > taste the real deal, you're going to have to spend some money and > learn some skills (what a shock! ...kinda like cooking). *You want to > drink crap and call people names, follow Shelby's advice. Another moron with nothing useful.. if all you can do is call names but offer nothing positive then you're just another dumb putz... you offered nothing helpful, you angry piece of shit. |
espresso machine recommendations??
On 2007-03-23, Sheldon > wrote:
> Another moron with nothing useful.. if all you can > do is call names but offer nothing positive then you're just another > dumb putz... you offered nothing helpful, you angry piece of shit. Ahh... isn't that cute. Shelting responds with another round of namecalling. Even got him to sling some fecal matter. Lil' pensie-wensie wanna peanut? nb |
espresso machine recommendations??
Mark Thorson > wrote:
>Here's a classic essay on the general subject, >Jack Denver's reply to a newbie on alt.coffee: >http://groups.google.com/group/alt.c...e=source&hl=en Big on attitude but short on information ("I doubt what I tell you will help you"), other than the basic fact that one wants a pump machine. But thanks. ;) Steve |
espresso machine recommendations??
Steve Pope wrote:
> > Any idea what I should buy among currently available > models? Here's a classic essay on the general subject, Jack Denver's reply to a newbie on alt.coffee: http://groups.google.com/group/alt.c...e=source&hl=en It doesn't recommend any current models, but it tells you the basics toward understanding what an espresso machine really is. There is a great deal of misunderstanding on that subject. This is probably the all-time best essay on the subject of buying your first espresso machine ever posted to alt.coffee. |
espresso machine recommendations??
Sheldon wrote:
> > Espresso existed hundreds of years before the first espresso machine. > Today most folk fiddle with their methodology so that they don't > really drink espresso... true espresso is burned beans, crappy beans > salvaged by burning, reminescent of the acridness of burned tires It is at this point, the train has been reliably determined to have left the track. If you know what I mean. :-) |
espresso machine recommendations??
Steve Pope > wrote:
>Mark Thorson > wrote: >>Here's a classic essay on the general subject, >>Jack Denver's reply to a newbie on alt.coffee: >>http://groups.google.com/group/alt.c...e=source&hl=en >Big on attitude but short on information ("I doubt what I tell >you will help you"), other than the basic fact that one wants >a pump machine. Also I am pretty skeptical with his contention that an "Americano" (dilutted espresso) is ultimately better than other forms of coffee such as filtered, French-press, etc. I can't 100% rule out this possibility but I've never liked "Americanos". Steve > >But thanks. ;) > >Steve |
espresso machine recommendations??
Steve Pope wrote:
> > Any idea what I should buy among currently available > models? Here's a review of the Gaggia Carezza when it was introduced: http://www.coffeegeek.com/proreviews...arezza/details It's currently available for $179, which is less than the pricing mentioned in the review. |
espresso machine recommendations??
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espresso machine recommendations??
On 2007-03-23, Julian Vrieslander > wrote:
> different profile of compounds, different viscosity. It's actually a > different physical state. The thick crema on a well-made espresso is a > colloidal suspension, trapping oils and aromatics which escape (or are > not extracted) in other processes. Precisely. > and other big chains. Really good espresso is hard to find. It > requires good beans, expert roasting and blending, and a competent > barista.... Bingo! All the other factors can be rendered into black crap by unskilled operators. Before Starbucks went to insanely expensive superautomatics (grind, prep, brew at touch of button), even the best machines on the market were no help to them. So, it's true. Your chances of finding a good espresso in the wild is about one in twenty. But, they're out there and it's possible to replicate them at home. On my second machine and second grinder, I can make *great* espresso. But, it took some jingles and experience and skill to get there. Here's what I would recommend as a minimal surefire combination at about the lowest cost you can expect for new: http://www.coffeegeek.com/proreviews/detailed/cremasl70 http://www.sweetmarias.com/prod.zas.shtml But, you can buy these things used. I got both my grinder and machine for under $200. nb |
espresso machine recommendations??
Julian Vrieslander > wrote:
>Unfortunately, a lot of people form their opinions of espresso (and >other fancy coffee drinks) from what they have experienced at Starbuck's >and other big chains. Really good espresso is hard to find. It >requires good beans, expert roasting and blending, and a competent >barista working on well-maintained clean equipment. You'll know it when >you find it. >I live in Seattle, where there are espresso joints everywhere. The >stuff served by most of them (including Starbuck's) ranges from mediocre >to drek. But there are a few shops that stand out. If you come here, >try a straight shot at Caffé d'Arte, Espresso Vivace, or Zoka. Thanks. I go to Caffe d'Arte each time I'm in Seattle. One motivation for getting an espresso machine now is that I have access to a good coffee source (Blue Bottle, which I can pick up every Tuesday and Saturday and it's always roasted 1 or at most 2 days previously.) One model I'm considering is the Briel ES42F but I'm still in the research phase. Steve |
espresso machine recommendations??
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