We had a new bakery cafe open up in town last week. It is the third similar
venture to open up in the area in the last year. I don't know how many the
town can support, but we figured we'd try it out on the weekend. They sell
three types of bread, whole wheat, sourdough and rye, and all were
fantastic, though a little pricey. They baked goods were amazing and the
coffee was really good.

One major problem was seating. There was one long table, two tables for
two and a counter by the window with seating for 4 or 5. There was room
for another table but instead they had a little play area for children with
kid size table, an easel with a chalk board and a box of toys.

I am sure there will be a difference of opinion on this one, but it was a
warnings signal for me. I used to frequent a local coffee shop that had a
pretty good business with the locals. It was where all the guys in town
went for coffee and breakfast. The regulars were the local electricians,
plumbers, repairmen, salesmen etc. The people who work locally and are on
the road and need a place to go for coffee other than the franchises. I
used to go there for coffee when I was working in the area. Then a group of
young mothers started meeting there. They would sit around and drink their
coffee, usually just coffee. Few had snacks and I never saw any of them
having breakfast or lunch. While they were chatting away their kids were
running loose in the place. Maybe women can tolerate screeching children
more than men, or consider it part of life. It isn't for working guys who
are there for a coffee break. The guys stopped going and the place went
under.

I am not recommending that they not allow children. What I suggest is that
they replace the play area with a table or two so that paying customers
have a place to sit and enjoy their coffee. even more important, I think
they should not be encouraging the parents to send their children over
there to play. Other customers have enough trouble with kids running back
and forth, but some of us are miserable old buggers who have zero tolerance
for children screeching, and little appreciation for parents yelling at
their children to behave.

It's a nice place and great place to go and read the newspaper with a
coffee and a snack, but if there are yards apes running around in there I
want nothing to do with it.

Dave Smith said...

> It's a nice place and great place to go and read the newspaper with a
> coffee and a snack, but if there are yards apes running around in there I
> want nothing to do with it.


As an upstart I would seat as many paying customers as possible.

For the premium price you're paying for breads, it would seem that the owner
is mistakenly more concerned about family than satisfied customers.

Too bad.

Imho,

Andy

Andy wrote:
> Dave Smith said...
>
>> It's a nice place and great place to go and read the newspaper with a
>> coffee and a snack, but if there are yards apes running around in there I
>> want nothing to do with it.
>
>
> As an upstart I would seat as many paying customers as possible.
>
> For the premium price you're paying for breads, it would seem that the owner
> is mistakenly more concerned about family than satisfied customers.
>
> Too bad.
>
> Imho,
>
> Andy


On the other hand, it's nice to keep the seats filled between the "real
customers'" breakfasts and lunches, and mothers having coffee together
fills the seats.

When we moved to the Denver area (over 20 yrs. ago) one of the first
things i noticed was that there was no place to meet friends for coffee.
This was, of course, before the Starbucks onslaught.

gloria p

With 3 similar bakeries in town, I'd guess that they're all filling
smaller and smaller niches. This latest one is going for the
mother-and-child market. Another might be going for the
student-with-laptop market. The third might be thinking of the
retiree-with-newpaper market.


Also, is it possible that one or all might be making their real money in
wholesale sales to area restaurants? The coffee, retail, and tables
might be there because they satisfy local zoning laws which require
being open to the public as opposed to being exclusively factory
bakeries. The owners may have chosen those locations for economic factors.


Whatever. If you're someone who doesn't care to enjoy your baked
goodies with small children nearby, by all means take your business
somewhere that's not obviously catering to them.


--Lia

Puester wrote:
>
>
> > For the premium price you're paying for breads, it would seem that the owner
> > is mistakenly more concerned about family than satisfied customers.
> >
> >
>
> On the other hand, it's nice to keep the seats filled between the "real
> customers'" breakfasts and lunches, and mothers having coffee together
> fills the seats.

I suppose that you could try posting hours when you wanted the mothers and
their children. The problem, as I see it, is the time they occupy the
seats and the amount they buy. Men go in for breakfast any time from 6 am
to noon, or stop for coffee break, sometimes just coffee but often coffee
and a snack, take their 15 minute or so coffee break and leave. When a
group of women come in wait for everyone else and stay longer. They tend to
just have coffee. The restaurant ends up with their limited space being
taken up by a small number of people who linger a long time with minimal
purchase.

As I mentioned about this place, there is limited space and limited seating
and there is a section that has been set aside and stocked with toys, easel
etc., a play area where they could have put more seating for paying
customers. Then there is the shriek factor. The owners have the option of
catering to a larger number of paying customers or to malingerers with
noisy kids, which will chase away the paying customers. I have enough
problem with poorly behaved children in restaurants when they are seated
with the parents. Having the kids off in a play area....... noise,
shrieking, crying, parents raising their voices at children from afar. No
thanks. If the owner can make a go of it from the mommy coffee klatches,
more power to them, but if they want a profitable turnover of paying
customers I don't think they should be going out of their way to make it
child friendly. IMO, public restaurants should not be children's
playgrounds.




> When we moved to the Denver area (over 20 yrs. ago) one of the first
> things i noticed was that there was no place to meet friends for coffee.
> This was, of course, before the Starbucks onslaught.

Not to start a Starbucks thread again..... but I like the ambience. I like
the coffee. I like the goodies they sell. One down side is the price. The
thing that keeps me out of Starbucks is that there is no place to sit and
enjoy my coffee and snack because all the seating is taken up by the people
who buy a cup of coffee and move in and stay for three hours while they
read a book. Some coffee shops have time limits, and others use furnishing
scheme geared at making you want to get out in good time.

Dave Smith wrote:

> Puester wrote:
> >
> >
> > > For the premium price you're paying for breads, it would seem that the
owner
> > > is mistakenly more concerned about family than satisfied customers.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > On the other hand, it's nice to keep the seats filled between the "real
> > customers'" breakfasts and lunches, and mothers having coffee together
> > fills the seats.
>
> I suppose that you could try posting hours when you wanted the mothers and
> their children.


AFAIK can't do that either in Canada or the States, it's discriminatory,
it'd be the same as posting hours for "homosexuals", "coloreds",
etc....they'd be hit with lawsuits, etc.


The problem, as I see it, is the time they occupy the
> seats and the amount they buy. Men go in for breakfast any time from 6 am
> to noon, or stop for coffee break, sometimes just coffee but often coffee
> and a snack, take their 15 minute or so coffee break and leave. When a
> group of women come in wait for everyone else and stay longer. They tend
to
> just have coffee. The restaurant ends up with their limited space being
> taken up by a small number of people who linger a long time with minimal
> purchase.


Ask any server, they'll tell that the VERY worst category of cheapskates is
wimmin with kids (the second - worst is tourists; also families)...

The wealthy stay - at - home moos who frequent coffee, etc. places are even
WORSE because they have an "entitlement" mentality. Plus which because they
don't work and so are useless sponges (hubby is downtown making money as a
trader, banker, lawyer, etc.; many of these SAHMoo's also even have NANNIES
and other hired help!) they have no sense about money and so have no
cognition that the cafe staff has to WORK for a living, e.g. turn over
tables, earn tips, etc...

These wimmin and their kids are dirty PIGS, too, they invariably leave a
HUGE mess when they leave....

I see this stuff all the time in my gentrified nabe, this lot behaves the
same way in stores and other businesses...clueless and NO respect for the
business owner and the other customers.



> As I mentioned about this place, there is limited space and limited
seating
> and there is a section that has been set aside and stocked with toys,
easel
> etc., a play area where they could have put more seating for paying
> customers. Then there is the shriek factor. The owners have the option
of
> catering to a larger number of paying customers or to malingerers with
> noisy kids, which will chase away the paying customers. I have enough
> problem with poorly behaved children in restaurants when they are seated
> with the parents. Having the kids off in a play area....... noise,
> shrieking, crying, parents raising their voices at children from afar. No
> thanks. If the owner can make a go of it from the mommy coffee klatches,
> more power to them, but if they want a profitable turnover of paying
> customers I don't think they should be going out of their way to make it
> child friendly. IMO, public restaurants should not be children's
> playgrounds.


When the owners discover that these moomees and their curtain - grabbers are
CHEAP and also TERRIBLE tippers they'll hopefully remove all the KKKiddie
KKKrap...

Nothing worse than this lot "taking over" your business and driving away
profitable customers such as yourself...

One coffee place owner I know of simply put up a sign at the entrance saying
"NO STROLLERS", that stopped the Stroller Mafia from bothering him
anymore...his attitude was "They can go to Starbuck's down the block..."
(the proliferation of moos 'n strollers at Starsucks is another good reason
I'll never shadow their premises). His bizness is thriving, he's got a nice
sort of clientele and he's making a decent living...

GREAT post BTW, Dave...

--
Best
Greg

Julia Altshuler wrote:
>
> With 3 similar bakeries in town, I'd guess that they're all filling
> smaller and smaller niches. This latest one is going for the
> mother-and-child market. Another might be going for the
> student-with-laptop market. The third might be thinking of the
> retiree-with-newpaper market.
>
> Also, is it possible that one or all might be making their real money in
> wholesale sales to area restaurants? The coffee, retail, and tables
> might be there because they satisfy local zoning laws which require
> being open to the public as opposed to being exclusively factory
> bakeries. The owners may have chosen those locations for economic factors.
>
> Whatever. If you're someone who doesn't care to enjoy your baked
> goodies with small children nearby, by all means take your business
> somewhere that's not obviously catering to them.


Being a fan of coffee and baked goods, it is in my interests that they all
do well. The place doesn't have much street parking. Being a small town,
people won't park a short block away. They need the walk in people buying
coffee and goodies with high mark up to succeed. Mothers with children can
take them to Tim Hortons and get TimBit for 20cents, but they won't be
sponging $2.50 on a brownie for a kid. Unless I am mistaken, the people
who will pay that much for a goodie to go with their coffee don't want to
hear kids screeching while they try to enjoy it.