- rec.food.cooking FAQ pointer
 

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seltzer (was - rec.food.cooking FAQ pointer)
 

Victor Sack wrote:
> This is a weekly pointer to the rec.food.cooking FAQ and conversion
> file. If you do not want to see it every week, you should put the
> title, which will not change, into your killfile.

Having only recently started reading the group, today I was reading the
FAQ for the first time. Something caught my eye. The glossary entry:

SELTZER - Plain soda water (from the trademark Alka-Seltzer).

I thought to myself, self...this is suspicious; I think "seltzer" has
been around a lot longer than Alka-Seltzer.

OED agrees:

<q>

seltzer (In full seltzer-water.) An effervescent mineral water obtained
near Nieder-Selters, containing sodium chloride and small quantities of
sodium, calcium, and magnesium carbonates. Also an artificial mineral
water of similar composition.

1741 POTT in Phil. Trans. XLI. 618 To drink the Selters Water, and keep
to a cooling Regimen. 1775 SHERIDAN St. Patrick's Day I. i, Then she was
such a hand at making foreign waters!{em}for Seltzer, Pyrmont,
Islington, or Chalybeate, she never had her equal. 1784 CULLEN tr.
Bergman's Phys. & Chem. Ess. I. 242 Seltzer water..excites upon the
tongue a taste gently salt, and mildly alkaline. 1847 MRS. GORE Castles
in Air xix, Neither soda-water, however, nor seltzer-water..inspired me
with courage to look Sir Robert in the face. 1871 M. COLLINS Marq. &
Merch. l. ix. 277 A great gulp of brandy and seltzer.

</q>


--
Blinky

seltzer
 

Blinky the Shark > wrote:

> Having only recently started reading the group, today I was reading the
> FAQ for the first time. Something caught my eye. The glossary entry:
>
> SELTZER - Plain soda water (from the trademark Alka-Seltzer).
>
> I thought to myself, self...this is suspicious; I think "seltzer" has
> been around a lot longer than Alka-Seltzer.

Yes, I know... The entry was put in by a FAQ-maintainer predecessor,
and is still being retained for purely nostalgic reasons. As to my own
view, here is what I posted some years ago:
<http://groups.google.com/group/rec.food.cooking/msg/c22ad688f0084d41>.

Victor

seltzer
 

Victor Sack wrote:
> Blinky the Shark > wrote:
>
>> Having only recently started reading the group, today I was reading the
>> FAQ for the first time. Something caught my eye. The glossary entry:
>>
>> SELTZER - Plain soda water (from the trademark Alka-Seltzer).
>>
>> I thought to myself, self...this is suspicious; I think "seltzer" has
>> been around a lot longer than Alka-Seltzer.
>
> Yes, I know... The entry was put in by a FAQ-maintainer predecessor,
> and is still being retained for purely nostalgic reasons.

Strange.

> As to my own
> view, here is what I posted some years ago:
><http://groups.google.com/group/rec.food.cooking/msg/c22ad688f0084d41>.

Yeah, what does the Oxford English Dictionary know, anyway? :)


--
Blinky RLU 297263
Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html

seltzer
 

Blinky the Shark > wrote:

> Yeah, what does the Oxford English Dictionary know, anyway? :)

In this case, not quite enough (and I am speaking of the full entry, not
of your somewhat abbreviated one). Selters water is still very popular
throughout Germany and is easy enough to find. See how the bottles and
labels look like: <http://www.selters.de/cms/images/491.gif>. It has
always been "officially" called "Selters" or "Selterswasser", never
"seltzer". As far as the dictionary is concerned, this is the most
important thing.

Now an even more important thing, for anyone at all interested in the
actual water: The water indeed used to come from Niederselters in Taunus
until 1999, but has been since produced in Selters an der Lahn, about 40
miles to the north. This means that only the trademark is left - one
can no longer get the original Selters water unless one comes to
Niederselters (there is apparently still enough for local consumption).

"Seltzer" is an English corruption of the original name and also a poor
attempt to imitate the original by carbonating plain water. That said,
I like plain carbonated water, i.e. seltzer, well enough. Alka-Seltzer
also comes from that English corruption.

Does all of the above belong in the FAQ? :-)

Victor

seltzer
 

Victor Sack wrote:

> Blinky the Shark > wrote:
>
>> Yeah, what does the Oxford English Dictionary know, anyway? :)
>
> In this case, not quite enough (and I am speaking of the full
> entry, not of your somewhat abbreviated one). Selters water is

I posted the entire etymology I was given by the version of OED
that I accessed via my public libary connection.

> still very popular throughout Germany and is easy enough to
> find. See how the bottles and labels look like:
> <http://www.selters.de/cms/images/491.gif>. It has always been
> "officially" called "Selters" or "Selterswasser",

Clear back to the 1400s, when the OED to which I have access first
sites the word?

never
> "seltzer". As far as the dictionary is concerned, this is the
> most important thing.
>
> Now an even more important thing, for anyone at all interested
> in the actual water: The water indeed used to come from
> Niederselters in Taunus until 1999, but has been since produced
> in Selters an der Lahn, about 40 miles to the north. This means
> that only the trademark is left - one can no longer get the
> original Selters water unless one comes to Niederselters (there
> is apparently still enough for local consumption).
>
> "Seltzer" is an English corruption of the original name and also
> a poor attempt to imitate the original by carbonating plain
> water. That said, I like plain carbonated water, i.e. seltzer,
> well enough. Alka-Seltzer also comes from that English
> corruption.
>
> Does all of the above belong in the FAQ? :-)

No, but neither does the idea that it comes from the antacid. :)

But it's your FAQ, and I am a newcomer to the group. I'll just
take the rest of the FAQ less seriously, not knowing how many
other errors are there just for old times' sake, and the world
will keep turning just fine. :)


--
Blinky
Killfiling all posts from Google Groups
Details: http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html

seltzer
 

Blinky the Shark > wrote:

> Victor Sack wrote:
>
> > Blinky the Shark > wrote:
> >
> >> Yeah, what does the Oxford English Dictionary know, anyway? :)
> >
> > In this case, not quite enough (and I am speaking of the full
> > entry, not of your somewhat abbreviated one). Selters water is
>
> I posted the entire etymology I was given by the version of OED
> that I accessed via my public libary connection.

I don't use a library connection; I use the printed dictionary.

Here is how the actual entry starts (and which you did not post):
__________________________________________________ ____________
Seltzer. Also selters, selzer.
[Alteration of G. Selterser, f. selters, the name of a village in
Hesse-Nassau, Prussia. Cf. F. seltz, selz.]
__________________________________________________ ____________

This is important, for it shows the actual origin of the name.

> > still very popular throughout Germany and is easy enough to
> > find. See how the bottles and labels look like:
> > <http://www.selters.de/cms/images/491.gif>. It has always been
> > "officially" called "Selters" or "Selterswasser",
>
> Clear back to the 1400s, when the OED to which I have access first
> sites the word?

1741, actually. And the word cited was "Selters".

Selters water was first mentioned in an official (German) document in
1536.

You can see the history and the labels used on the selters.de site.
None ever used 'Seltzer'.

> > Does all of the above belong in the FAQ? :-)
>
> No, but neither does the idea that it comes from the antacid. :)

No, indeed, and I might change it one of these days.

> But it's your FAQ,

No, the FAQ is meant to be a help to a newsgroup, not a private
amusement.

> and I am a newcomer to the group.

It does not matter how long one has been reading a newsgroup at all.

> I'll just
> take the rest of the FAQ less seriously, not knowing how many
> other errors are there just for old times' sake, and the world
> will keep turning just fine. :)

Most certainly. Suit yourself.

Victor

seltzer
 

Victor Sack wrote:
> Blinky the Shark > wrote:
>
>> Victor Sack wrote:
>>
>> > Blinky the Shark > wrote:
>> >
>> >> Yeah, what does the Oxford English Dictionary know, anyway? :)
>> >
>> > In this case, not quite enough (and I am speaking of the full
>> > entry, not of your somewhat abbreviated one). Selters water is
>>
>> I posted the entire etymology I was given by the version of OED
>> that I accessed via my public libary connection.
>
> I don't use a library connection; I use the printed dictionary.
>
> Here is how the actual entry starts (and which you did not post):
> __________________________________________________ ____________
> Seltzer. Also selters, selzer.
> [Alteration of G. Selterser, f. selters, the name of a village in
> Hesse-Nassau, Prussia. Cf. F. seltz, selz.]
> __________________________________________________ ____________

If it was in what I had at hand, I didn't notice it. Sorry about that;
I wasn't trying to be dishonest.

Coincidentally, I've been reading Prussian history lately.

> This is important, for it shows the actual origin of the name.
>
>> > still very popular throughout Germany and is easy enough to
>> > find. See how the bottles and labels look like:
>> > <http://www.selters.de/cms/images/491.gif>. It has always been
>> > "officially" called "Selters" or "Selterswasser",
>>
>> Clear back to the 1400s, when the OED to which I have access first
>> sites the word?
>
> 1741, actually. And the word cited was "Selters".

Damn. It's my old meatRAM failure again.

> Selters water was first mentioned in an official (German) document in
> 1536.
>
> You can see the history and the labels used on the selters.de site.
> None ever used 'Seltzer'.
>
>> > Does all of the above belong in the FAQ? :-)
>>
>> No, but neither does the idea that it comes from the antacid. :)
>
> No, indeed, and I might change it one of these days.

Cool beans. (Almost an ObFood statement. <g>)

>> But it's your FAQ,
>
> No, the FAQ is meant to be a help to a newsgroup, not a private
> amusement.
>
>> and I am a newcomer to the group.
>
> It does not matter how long one has been reading a newsgroup at all.

I've been online for a long time, and certainly long enough to know it's
not wise to try to rearrange the furniture when you're new to the living
room.


--
Blinky RLU 297263
Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html