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If You Eat Pork of any kind
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If You Eat Pork of any kind
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If You Eat Pork of any kind
On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 15:14:02 -0500, Pan Ohco > wrote:
>On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 18:22:29 GMT, "Marcelino" > wrote: > > >>Please examine what we do to animals on factory farms and in >>slaughterhouses, denying animals everything that is natural to them > >What we do to animals is to restrict their movements. If they were >thinking beings that might be a problem. But they are not. Other then >that the human feed & water them and keep them alive longer then if >they had been in the wild. Yes, it's a problem, even if you mistakenly believe that only humans think. How could anyone who claims to have humanity not be disgusted by veal crates, gestation cages, or discarding half-dead animals in piles? Sue(tm) Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself! |
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If You Eat Pork of any kind
In article >,
(Curly Sue) writes: >Subject: If You Eat Pork of any kind >From: (Curly Sue) >Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 22:25:01 GMT > >On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 15:14:02 -0500, Pan Ohco > wrote: > >>On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 18:22:29 GMT, "Marcelino" > wrote: >> >> >>>Please examine what we do to animals on factory farms and in >>>slaughterhouses, denying animals everything that is natural to them >> >>What we do to animals is to restrict their movements. If they were >>thinking beings that might be a problem. But they are not. Other then >>that the human feed & water them and keep them alive longer then if >>they had been in the wild. > >Yes, it's a problem, even if you mistakenly believe that only humans >think. How could anyone who claims to have humanity not be disgusted >by veal crates, gestation cages, or discarding half-dead animals in >piles? > >Sue(tm) >Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself! > > THIS IS A MOTHER****ER WOP THREAD ---= BOYCOTT FRENCH--GERMAN (belgium) =--- ---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =--- Sheldon ```````````` "Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation." |
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If You Eat Pork of any kind
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If You Eat Pork of any kind
In article >,
(butch burton) writes: >COTTP > wrote in message t>... >> In article >, >> says... >> >> > It's arguable that humans were designed as omnivores. Some of the lastest >> > research indicates that the substance Neu5Gc in meat/dairy products may >be >> > linked to diseases such as heart disease and diabetes. The presence of >these >> > molelules triggers an auto-immune response that causes systemic >inflammation >> > and is thought to contribute to various diseases in the long term. >> >> Whereas the length of the human gut is ideally suited to digest both >> meat and vegetable matter. >> >> Regarding heart disease and diabetes - many other things have had the >> finger pointed at them in the past. Remember eggs? >> >> I believe that part of the auto-immune problems are due to hormones they >> inject into the animals, not the animals themselves. >Please stop feeding the trolls-let them die quietly. THIS IS A MOTHER****ER WOP THREAD ---= BOYCOTT FRENCH--GERMAN (belgium) =--- ---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =--- Sheldon ```````````` "Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation." |
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If You Eat Pork of any kind
In article >,
(butch burton) writes: >COTTP > wrote in message t>... >> In article >, >> says... >> >> > It's arguable that humans were designed as omnivores. Some of the lastest >> > research indicates that the substance Neu5Gc in meat/dairy products may >be >> > linked to diseases such as heart disease and diabetes. The presence of >these >> > molelules triggers an auto-immune response that causes systemic >inflammation >> > and is thought to contribute to various diseases in the long term. >> >> Whereas the length of the human gut is ideally suited to digest both >> meat and vegetable matter. >> >> Regarding heart disease and diabetes - many other things have had the >> finger pointed at them in the past. Remember eggs? >> >> I believe that part of the auto-immune problems are due to hormones they >> inject into the animals, not the animals themselves. >Please stop feeding the trolls-let them die quietly. THIS IS A MOTHER****ER WOP THREAD ---= BOYCOTT FRENCH--GERMAN (belgium) =--- ---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =--- Sheldon ```````````` "Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation." |
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If You Eat Pork of any kind
"j*ni p." > wrote: > Hark! I heard "Mike Pearce" > say: > > <snip> > > most of these animals are little things like lizards, rodents, > > snakes, etc. that we don't like anyway > > This isn't aimed at Mike or anyone in particular: > > We've wandered far afield here (imagine that!), but I did want > to put in a good word for non-poisonous snakes & spiders, as well > as lizards and bats. These are great critters with bad reputatons; > they help keep the bug population under control and generally are > not a hazard to us. I'm terrified of spiders, but I don't kill them, > I gently move them outside of the house. I'd much rather have these > animals around than a swarm of mosquitos (yuck!). I was being sarcastic. -Mike |
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If You Eat Pork of any kind
On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 18:18:49 GMT, "Marcelino"
> shared the following: >I dont know who you refer when calling and Idiot,But all I had done was >posted a link and you guys done the rest.......... you=troll *plonk* >"Dimitri" > wrote in message om... >> >> "Marcelino" > wrote in message >> .com... >> > You really need to check this out... Pork eater especially. >> > >> > http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/Prefs....nahan-pig-farm >> >> >> Are you the idiot who has been subscribing people to the PETA newsletter? >> >> Dimitri >> >> > -- Travis FOR SALE: '63 VW Camo Baja... $1000 *FIRM* http://bugadventures.dyndns.org Words that soak into your ears are whispered, not yelled. :wq! |
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If You Eat Pork of any kind
On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 19:15:00 -0400, travis
> shared the following: >On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 18:18:49 GMT, "Marcelino" > shared the following: > >>I dont know who you refer when calling and Idiot,But all I had done was >>posted a link and you guys done the rest.......... > >you=troll >*plonk* Everyone follow my lead, now... Me killfiling him doesn't help me much when y'all keep feeding him. I saw a response post of one of y'all where I could see he's laughing over the whole thing now. Let's all (those of you who haven't already killfiled me) say 1...2...3.... *PLONK* > > > >>"Dimitri" > wrote in message . com... >>> >>> "Marcelino" > wrote in message >>> .com... >>> > You really need to check this out... Pork eater especially. >>> > >>> > http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/Prefs....nahan-pig-farm >>> >>> >>> Are you the idiot who has been subscribing people to the PETA newsletter? >>> >>> Dimitri >>> >>> >> -- Travis FOR SALE: '63 VW Camo Baja... $1000 *FIRM* http://bugadventures.dyndns.org Words that soak into your ears are whispered, not yelled. :wq! |
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If You Eat Pork of any kind
"Marcelino" > wrote in message ... > Can't you read moron..Clearly my answer is in what I had written.It Takes > someone with some sort of brains to break it down and understand it I > guess...DO you need help Understanding what I just wrote You Moron... > Under the spreading chestnut tree Marcelino sat Amusing himself by abusing himself Then catching it in his hat. |
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If You Eat Pork of any kind
If you are refering to me as Him Travis..You should be saying to HER..Yes I
have laughed to the post because if you have read it all you would know why..All this is about now is who can slam the other person harder ..I laughed at one asshole here.He knows who he is..For the simple fact that he is here to start trouble and call me names because I proved him wrong so now he wants to get back at me by slandering my Mothers Name..Come on people.All I did was (like I said before).Post a link and the rest of the newsgroup took it over..Do with it what you will.You people seem like all you want to do is turn this into a game to see who is going to win.I was serious about the link and wanted other to view it.. "travis" > wrote in message ... > On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 19:15:00 -0400, travis > > shared the following: > > >On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 18:18:49 GMT, "Marcelino" > > shared the following: > > > >>I dont know who you refer when calling and Idiot,But all I had done was > >>posted a link and you guys done the rest.......... > > > >you=troll > >*plonk* > > Everyone follow my lead, now... Me killfiling him doesn't help me > much when y'all keep feeding him. I saw a response post of one of > y'all where I could see he's laughing over the whole thing now. Let's > all (those of you who haven't already killfiled me) say 1...2...3.... > *PLONK* > > > > > > > > > >>"Dimitri" > wrote in message > . com... > >>> > >>> "Marcelino" > wrote in message > >>> .com... > >>> > You really need to check this out... Pork eater especially. > >>> > > >>> > http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/Prefs....nahan-pig-farm > >>> > >>> > >>> Are you the idiot who has been subscribing people to the PETA newsletter? > >>> > >>> Dimitri > >>> > >>> > >> > > > -- > Travis > FOR SALE: '63 VW Camo Baja... $1000 *FIRM* > http://bugadventures.dyndns.org > Words that soak into your ears are whispered, not yelled. > > > :wq! |
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If You Eat Pork of any kind
"Marcelino" > wrote in message .com... > You really need to check this out... Pork eater especially. > > http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/Prefs....nahan-pig-farm > > I'll never forget killing my first Hog. It walked directly under my hiding spot and I put a Brodhead Arrow right between the shoulders. That tough old ******* thought he was going to eat an apple. HA! The arrow didn't kill him and he went running off through the brambles with the arrow dragging the ground since it went through him. He was squealing and tripping on the shaft and the shaft was catching on brambles and twisted in him as he tried to flee. I caught up with him in a spot that was too brushy to draw my bow and then, he turned to attack. I drew my machete and speared it at him until I backed into a spot where I had room to take a good swing . The first swing was a good one. The end of the blade caught him between the eyes and sank in deeply, but stuck in his forehead. To my astonishment the blow failed to dispatch him and, after backing off a few steps, he charged again. What a sight this was. A hog that weighed nearly two hundred pounds with a machete sticking out of his forehead, an arrow sticking out of his chest, charging and blowing blood from his mouth and nose as he came. It was Hell and the Devil himself, but the arrow caught on a root as he charged and he fell on his side. As he tried to right himself, I grabbed up a large chunk of flint lying near me with both hands and struck him in the neck with all my might. His blood spewed for a dozen feet in crimson arcs as he thrashed, covering me and the surrounding brush as he struggled. He succumbed rapidly to the blood loss and his struggling lessened. I succumbed to my exhaustion and fell to my knees. Then there we were, only a couple of feet separating us, looking into each others eyes. There was a communication that is difficult to describe, an understanding of the struggle and its implications. He let go and I held on. His life for the proliferation of mine. He was the one more experienced with this. He had bitten the life out of other living beings and filled his mouth with their still beating hearts. He had tasted the warm blood as it still held life, and he liked it. Now I do. |
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If You Eat Pork of any kind
C. James Strutz wrote:
> You're right that overpopulation is a problem. However, I contend that not > eating meat and dairy raises the quality of life rather than lowering > it.... How? -- Darryl L. Pierce > Visit the Infobahn Offramp - <http://bellsouthpwp.net/m/c/mcpierce> "What do you care what other people think, Mr. Feynman?" |
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If You Eat Pork of any kind
Hark! I heard "Mike Pearce" > say:
> > "j*ni p." > wrote: > > Hark! I heard "Mike Pearce" > say: > > > > <snip> > > > most of these animals are little things like lizards, rodents, > > > snakes, etc. that we don't like anyway > > > > This isn't aimed at Mike or anyone in particular: > > > > We've wandered far afield here (imagine that!), but I did want > > to put in a good word for non-poisonous snakes & spiders, as well > > as lizards and bats. These are great critters with bad reputatons; > > they help keep the bug population under control and generally are > > not a hazard to us. I'm terrified of spiders, but I don't kill them, > > I gently move them outside of the house. I'd much rather have these > > animals around than a swarm of mosquitos (yuck!). > > > I was being sarcastic. I *said* "this isn't aimed at Mike". Sheesh... -- j*ni p. ~ mom, gamer, novice cook ~ ...fish heads, fish heads, eat them up, yum! |
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If You Eat Pork of any kind
"Marcelino" SCUMBAG
---= BOYCOTT FRENCH--GERMAN (belgium) =--- ---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =--- Sheldon ```````````` "Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation." |
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If You Eat Pork of any kind
"Darryl L. Pierce" > wrote in message s.com... > C. James Strutz wrote: > > > You're right that overpopulation is a problem. However, I contend that not > > eating meat and dairy raises the quality of life rather than lowering > > it.... > > How? Because it's more healthful in the long term. There are many studies showing that people live longer healthier lives on vegetarian diets. |
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Penmart01) If You Eat Pork of any kind
Marcelino wrote:
> Don't plants feel pain? This also is sometimes posed as, "Where do you > draw the line? Rights for roaches?" So far, as best we can determine > biologically and physiologically, plants do not feel pain. It's a well studied topic, and evidence certainly suggests that plants do feel pain (not only that, but they emit subsonic "cries" that are perceived by nearby plants and various insects). While they don't have nerves, they do exhibit startingly similar biochemical stress responses. So, yes, it's generally accepted that plants feel pain in a sense quite similar to animals. Perhaps it's not popularly understood, but true nonetheless -- either way, unless your a phytobiologist you probably don't care. After all, if you can't eat meat or vegetables, your dietary options are slim. > Pain requires a brain, a central nervous system, pain receptors, and > so on. This is not true. Many organisms very clearly experience pain without central nervous systems (C. elegans, etc.), and the body has no "pain receptors" per se. Pain is reflected quite specifically by a cascade of biochemical responses to external stressors. To you, it's perceived as pain -- unless you have lerposy. To someone with leprosy, there is no perception of pain at all. Ironically, pigs are the only mammal other than humans to contract leprosy. > All mammals, birds, and fish have these things. No plants do. We > all know this to be true: We all understand that there is a fundamental > difference between cutting your lawn and lighting a cat's tail on fire and > between breaking up a head of lettuce and bashing a dog's head in. The difference is pricipally semantic and arbitrary. It's just simpler for people to relate to a cuddly animal than objects that appear more plainly inanimate. > Birds, mammals, and fish are made of flesh, bones, and fat, just as we > are. Not all. Even then, they are frequently made of different flesh, bones and fat than we. Moreover, plants are composed of very simlar chemical constituents but in different configuration and concentrations. Like many animals, plants produce a wide array of proteins and sugars that we cannot. Likewise, we produce a number of compounds that other animals do not (for example, the neurotransmitters and receptors in animals vary quite a bit). > They feel pain, just as we do. But you see, that's a popular belief based on supposition. They feel pain, yes, but demonstrably not like we (humans do). Most animal's responses are quite different (both biochemically, but also behaviorally). We know that they, in fact, do not feel pain like we do. We know only that they, (like most anything else alive) feel pain. > I may not know quite where to draw the line. For > example, I'm not sure what a roach or an ant experiences. It's quite similar to any small animal. Typically the rate of response is faster because of the small and open circulatory system and high metabolic rate of many of these creatures. > But I do know with 100 percent certainty that intentionally > inflicting suffering because of tradition, custom, convenience, or > a palate preference is unethical. You don't know that, you believe that. That conclusion is a value judgement based on your personal beliefs, understanding of the situation, and understanding of the concept of ethics. It cannot be fundamentally correct or true because the assertion does not present a conclusive and objectively testable hypothesis. > And if we're eating meat, dairy products, or eggs, we're intentionally > causing suffering, for no good reason There's little evidence for that assertion. If you perceive death or captivity as cruel outright, regardless of the situation, then perhaps the position is arguable. The fact is that while people understand the existence of cruelty, death, or undesirable conditions in some cases, they accept the conditions that actually prevail have none of these attributes (for example, the PETA site focuses on falsified videos, animal cruelty cases not associated with commercial food production, etc as a protocol for advancing a very specific agenda (originally animal welfare, but the focus is shifting to anti-globalization efforts -- that based on their more recent funding -- by attempting to adversely affect american and western-european agriculture)). > > > "PENMART01" > wrote in message > ... >> James McIninch > writes: >> >> >You're a hypocrite if you pan the consumption of animals yet still > support >> >the slaughter of vegatation. It's omnivory or autotrophy, anything else > is >> >just a sad delusion. >> > >> >(Incidentally, that's tongue and cheek, all). >> >> Um, that's tongue *in* cheek. >> >> Tongues and cheeks are in headcheese. >> >> >> M-W >> tongue in cheek >> Function: adverb >> Date: circa 1934 >> : with insincerity, irony, or whimsical exaggeration >> --- >> >> >> ---= BOYCOTT FRENCH--GERMAN (belgium) =--- >> ---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =--- >> Sheldon >> ```````````` >> "Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation." >> |
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If You Eat Pork of any kind
COTTP wrote:
> In article >, says... > > > I've actually seen studies where they used ecg machines on plants with startling > > results. They took two plants that were grown side by side; they "knew " each > > other. Then, they sent a number of people into the room to "visit" the plants, > > but the last one had instructions to destroy one of the plants. They then hooked > > the ecg up to the remaining plant. As each of the people re-visited the > > remaining plant, no matter what order they were sent in, the remaining plant > > "knew" which one killed it's "friend" and it showed unmistakably on the ecg! > > Oh damn - I'm screwed. I've killed so many plants. Biggest heartbreak > was a pair of watermelon plants I had grown from seed. Both were doing > quite well living in a pot by a window with direct sunlight. One of my > damn cats ate all the leaves off it - bye bye watermelon plants. > > > In another study, they used an ecg on cups of yogurt. They fed one (sugar) while > > they starved the other, and they monitored both on the ecg. When one was fed, > > the other showed a reaction ("desire") to the first being fed. Granted, yogurt > > is not a single plant, but a colony of culture. > > > > So, there's more to plants and living cultures than people think! > > I gotta wonder what a spoonful of yogurt is doing when it slides down > someones throat. Yep, I've often wondered if the grass starts "screaming" when it "sees" me bring out the lawn mower?!  )Gary -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =----- |
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Penmart01) If You Eat Pork of any kind
"Puester" > wrote in message ... > Marcelino wrote: > > > > > > And if we're eating meat, > > dairy products, or eggs, we're intentionally causing suffering, for no good > > reason > > > > > > Eggs? EGGS??? For cripes sake, chickens and other fowl > lay eggs whether anyone eats the eggs or not. You'd have > to listen REALLY hard to hear an egg cry out in pain. > > gloria p I'm going to piggy back and comment on the dairy products... I was raised on a dairy farm; my cows had it better than I did! Most cows, other than some cases sensationalized by the eco-terrorist peta types, are very well cared for and do not suffer... |
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If You Eat Pork of any kind
On Sun, 5 Oct 2003 22:35:46 -0400, "No One" >
wrote: >I don't do PETA. They've been accused of as much dirt as they dish out on others. >BTW, years ago I read that plants also have nevous systems. When monitored, >the scream and cry when abused. The experiment was someone going in and >destroying some plants. When the same person entered the room, the plants >went spastic. Decades ago. Don't remember the reference. > Reminds me of Douglas Adams, "Restaurant at the End of the Universe". By then, they had genetically created an animal that was not only bred to be eaten, it wanted to be eaten, and could state such quite clearly. Horrified by the fact that this creature was suggesting various cuts of himself to serve for dinner, Arthur Dent asked for a salad. 'A salad would be fine. That can't hurt anyone can it?' The creature sighs and says, "I know a lot of vegetables who would beg to differ, sir". Bob |
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If You Eat Pork of any kind
On Mon, 6 Oct 2003 19:37:48 -0500, "El Tubero"
> shared the following: > >"Marcelino" > wrote in message y.com... >> You really need to check this out... Pork eater especially. >> >> http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/Prefs....nahan-pig-farm >> >> >I'll never forget killing my first Hog. >It walked directly under my hiding spot and I put >a Brodhead Arrow right between the shoulders. >That tough old ******* thought he was going to eat an apple. HA! >The arrow didn't kill him and he went running off through the brambles >with the arrow dragging the ground since it went through him. >He was squealing and tripping on the shaft and the shaft was catching >on brambles and twisted in him as he tried to flee. >I caught up with him in a spot that was too brushy to draw my bow >and then, he turned to attack. I drew my machete and speared it at him >until I backed into a spot where I had room to take a good swing . >The first swing was a good one. The end of the blade caught him >between the eyes and sank in deeply, but stuck in his forehead. >To my astonishment the blow failed to dispatch him and, after backing >off a few steps, he charged again. What a sight this was. A hog that >weighed nearly two hundred pounds with a machete sticking out of his >forehead, an arrow sticking out of his chest, charging and blowing blood >from his mouth and nose as he came. It was Hell and the Devil himself, >but the arrow caught on a root as he charged and he fell on his side. >As he tried to right himself, I grabbed up a large chunk of flint lying near >me with both hands and struck him in the neck with all my might. >His blood spewed for a dozen feet in crimson arcs as he thrashed, >covering me and the surrounding brush as he struggled. >He succumbed rapidly to the blood loss and his struggling lessened. >I succumbed to my exhaustion and fell to my knees. >Then there we were, only a couple of feet separating us, >looking into each others eyes. There was a communication that is >difficult to describe, an understanding of the struggle and its >implications. >He let go and I held on. His life for the proliferation of mine. >He was the one more experienced with this. He had bitten the life out of >other living beings and filled his mouth with their still beating hearts. >He had tasted the warm blood as it still held life, and he liked it. >Now I do. > That was beautiful, man. Please pass the bacon. *sniffle* -- Travis FOR SALE: '63 VW Camo Baja... $1000 *FIRM* http://bugadventures.dyndns.org Words that soak into your ears are whispered, not yelled. :wq! |
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If You Eat Pork of any kind
C. James Strutz wrote:
> NOt to > mention e-coli, salmonella, trichinosis, listeriosis and other bacterial > infections. More good reasons to avoid meat products. The bacteria are normal inhabitants of animal digestive systems. Nothing new about them being in our food supply. Trichina are parasitic worms, all but eliminated in commercial pork in the US. Still to be found in bears, home-raised pigs and a few other critters. Not much of a problem nowadays. We're evolved to handle low-level quantities of the bacteria since we've coexisted with them for millions of years. Compromised immune systems and extremely high levels of the bacteria can cause problems. For most people, not an issue. Pastorio |
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If You Eat Pork of any kind
Pan Ohco wrote:
> On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 18:22:29 GMT, "Marcelino" > > wrote: > > > >>Please examine what we do to animals on factory farms and in >>slaughterhouses, denying animals everything that is natural to them > > > What we do to animals is to restrict their movements. If they were > thinking beings that might be a problem. But they are not. Other then > that the human feed & water them and keep them alive longer then if > they had been in the wild. > > >>and then >>killing them in gruesome ways, > > > If the bolt gun is used properly the death is instantaneous, without > pain. (Death would occur before the pain was felt. ) > > >>and try to tell me that this is moral. > > > Yes. What is immoral is mans actions towards other men. If one person > dies because an animal is to live, that is immoral > > >>What animal welfare advocates suggest >>is that we should also be compassionate toward all animals. >> > > No what animal welfare advocates, (those that I know), are saying is > that "I'm holier then thou". Not knowing that they look foolish. > > If you can tell me that you have never killed an animal,( including > bugs, rats, snake, ect.) then you can preach. > > Oh and instead of throwing paint on a little old ladies' fur, throw it > on a biker's leather. Then you can talk. Once, in New York city, a guy came at me with a spray can of Day-Glo red paint. I was wearing an Icelandic sheepskin coat at the time. I said one word to him as he raised the can at me. I pointed at the can. "Suppository." He didn't spray me. Pastorio |
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Penmart01) If You Eat Pork of any kind
James McIninch > wrote in message news:<Kppgb.701403$uu5.113994@sccrnsc04>...
> Marcelino wrote: > > > > Pain requires a brain, a central nervous system, pain receptors, and > > so on. > > This is not true. Many organisms very clearly experience pain without > central nervous systems (C. elegans, etc.), and the body has no "pain > receptors" per se. Pain is reflected quite specifically by a cascade of > biochemical responses to external stressors. To you, it's perceived as pain > -- unless you have lerposy. To someone with leprosy, there is no perception > of pain at all. Ironically, pigs are the only mammal other than humans to > contract leprosy. Uh uh. Don't forget Armadillos... There is a story behind that. I did my term paper when I took pathogenic microbiology on "Hansen's disease", aka Leprosy. Humans infected the Armadillo with it. It was not originally a vector. > > > > All mammals, birds, and fish have these things. No plants do. We > > all know this to be true: We all understand that there is a fundamental > > difference between cutting your lawn and lighting a cat's tail on fire and > > between breaking up a head of lettuce and bashing a dog's head in. > > The difference is pricipally semantic and arbitrary. It's just simpler for > people to relate to a cuddly animal than objects that appear more plainly > inanimate. I dunno, I love plants, and I eat them anyway. Bunnies too. <G> Besides, there is a difference between torturing an animal for sadistic pleasure and killing it mercifully for food! Give me a break. I do raise some of my own meat and it is important to me that the animal die instantly. It's hard to kill a plant instantly. Perhaps they suffer even more? Maybe it's more cruel to eat plants that cannot be killed easily as opposed to animals that die all too easily? What about eating fertile eggs? Can it even be considered a live animal if it is only germinated and has not really started to develop yet? We have to take a life to eat. That the way things are..... > > > > Birds, mammals, and fish are made of flesh, bones, and fat, just as we > > are. > > Not all. Even then, they are frequently made of different flesh, bones and > fat than we. Moreover, plants are composed of very simlar chemical > constituents but in different configuration and concentrations. Like many > animals, plants produce a wide array of proteins and sugars that we cannot. > Likewise, we produce a number of compounds that other animals do not (for > example, the neurotransmitters and receptors in animals vary quite a bit). That's the whole thing with essential fatty acids and essential amino acids. We HAVE to get those from our diets and will die without them. Animal sources are much more efficient for both. To my knowlege, there is no such thing as an essential carbohydrate. <G> That is the main nutrient in plants. > > > > > They feel pain, just as we do. > > But you see, that's a popular belief based on supposition. They feel pain, > yes, but demonstrably not like we (humans do). Most animal's responses are > quite different (both biochemically, but also behaviorally). We know that > they, in fact, do not feel pain like we do. We know only that they, (like > most anything else alive) feel pain. God, that is SO true! I do some wildlife rescue work and have had to treat seriously injured animals. I have reduced compound fractures without anesthesia and get no reaction from the animal. A human would probably pass out from that kind of pain... I do what I can with locals/xylocaine, but it's not always possible. Like that rabbit I did minor surgery on to remove a massive abcess the size of a baseball. I removed quite a bit of dead tissue that probably had no feeling, but I had to get rid of it all to healthy flesh. Rabbits can scream bloody murder if you hurt them. This one uttered not a single peep. Yes, it survived. Lived with me for about 5 years. :-) It was a domestic rabbit some ass had released into the wild. They don't do well. Birds can die from pain, but I reduced a compound lower leg fracture in a barn owl, (and according to the vet that did an x-ray on the splinted leg later, I got it right. <G>) and the owl only reacted slightly and more from being handled at all than from the pain of pulling the bone back in thru the skin. It survived and was later released after I sent it to an owl rehabber. I also watched a raptor specialist vet down in San Antonio reduce a wing compound fracture. I held the hawk for him so I know damned well that most bird vets don't try to put a bird under to do this. It's too risky. Anesthesia is very, very risky to birds. I was not comfortable with doing a wing myself so just wrapped the exposed bone with neosporin and saline moistened gauze to keep it wet and let HIM do it. I worked with one of the vets I use with a large Texas rat snake that someone had beaten with a 2x4. It had several broken ribs and the primary lung was punctured in 3 places according to the vet. We had to decide whether or not to treat or put it to sleep. Snakes cannot scream so other than reflex reaction, it's hard to tell if you hurt them. With lots of care, it survived and healed. Snake anatomy is pretty unique. Sorry, I'm rambling. Doing wildlife rescue work is fascinating. > > > > > I may not know quite where to draw the line. For > > example, I'm not sure what a roach or an ant experiences. > > It's quite similar to any small animal. Typically the rate of response is > faster because of the small and open circulatory system and high metabolic > rate of many of these creatures. Sorry but I refuse to feel sorry for pests/insects. That is where I draw the line. I kill mosquitos by the millions and will continue to do so. I don't eat them tho! LOL! > > > > But I do know with 100 percent certainty that intentionally > > inflicting suffering because of tradition, custom, convenience, or > > a palate preference is unethical. > > You don't know that, you believe that. That conclusion is a value judgement > based on your personal beliefs, understanding of the situation, and > understanding of the concept of ethics. It cannot be fundamentally correct > or true because the assertion does not present a conclusive and objectively > testable hypothesis. If you raise it humanely and kill it painlessly, you are NOT causing it to suffer! Most animals would never have been born at all or lived at all if they were not being raised for food. Humane husbandry practices are pretty much the law now. If you really want to know where your meat has been, raise it yourself. > > > > And if we're eating meat, dairy products, or eggs, we're intentionally > > causing suffering, for no good reason > > There's little evidence for that assertion. If you perceive death or > captivity as cruel outright, regardless of the situation, then perhaps the > position is arguable. The fact is that while people understand the > existence of cruelty, death, or undesirable conditions in some cases, they > accept the conditions that actually prevail have none of these attributes > (for example, the PETA site focuses on falsified videos, animal cruelty > cases not associated with commercial food production, etc as a protocol for > advancing a very specific agenda (originally animal welfare, but the focus > is shifting to anti-globalization efforts -- that based on their more > recent funding -- by attempting to adversely affect american and > western-european agriculture)). > Raising animals for food is not cruel. There are plenty of laws in place for humane treatment of animals! > > > > "PENMART01" > wrote in message > > ... > >> James McIninch > writes: > >> > >> >You're a hypocrite if you pan the consumption of animals yet still > support > >> >the slaughter of vegatation. It's omnivory or autotrophy, anything else > is > >> >just a sad delusion. > >> > > >> >(Incidentally, that's tongue and cheek, all). > >> > >> Um, that's tongue *in* cheek. > >> > >> Tongues and cheeks are in headcheese. > >> > >> > >> M-W > >> tongue in cheek > >> Function: adverb > >> Date: circa 1934 > >> : with insincerity, irony, or whimsical exaggeration > >> --- > >> We have to kill to eat. Whether or not it is a plant or animal, you are still taking a life...... C. |
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On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 00:24:20 GMT, "Marcelino"
> wrote: >If you are refering to me as Him Travis..You should be saying to HER..Yes I >have laughed to the post because if you have read it all you would know >why..All this is about now is who can slam the other person harder ..I >laughed at one asshole here.He knows who he is..For the simple fact that he >is here to start trouble and call me names because I proved him wrong so now >he wants to get back at me by slandering my Mothers Name..Come on people.All >I did was (like I said before).Post a link and the rest of the newsgroup >took it over..Do with it what you will.You people seem like all you want to >do is turn this into a game to see who is going to win.I was serious about >the link and wanted other to view it.. Marcelino, By posting a link, you appear to support the basic thrust of that page. You posted a link to a PETA page. You posted it to a food group. PETA opposes the eating of animals. And you are surprised at the reaction that you received? Are you that incredibly naive, or do you not take responsibility for your actions? Pan Ohco |
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"Pan Ohco" > wrote in message ... > On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 22:25:01 GMT, (Curly > Sue) wrote: > > > >>What we do to animals is to restrict their movements. If they were > >>thinking beings that might be a problem. But they are not. Other then > >>that the human feed & water them and keep them alive longer then if > >>they had been in the wild. > > > >Yes, it's a problem, even if you mistakenly believe that only humans > >think. How could anyone who claims to have humanity not be disgusted > >by veal crates, gestation cages, or discarding half-dead animals in > >piles? > > Sue have you ever interacted with a cow? You need only interact with common pets to know that animals have instincts, intellect, emotion, and can feel pain. I think that animals also have souls. > And what is your proof that not only humans have independent thought.? You are asking her to prove something that she never claimed. It makes it look as though you're propping up your beliefs by discrediting her. |
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On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 02:02:55 GMT, "C. James Strutz"
> wrote: > >"Darryl L. Pierce" > wrote in message ws.com... >> C. James Strutz wrote: >> >> > You're right that overpopulation is a problem. However, I contend that >not >> > eating meat and dairy raises the quality of life rather than lowering >> > it.... >> >> How? > >Because it's more healthful in the long term. There are many studies showing >that people live longer healthier lives on vegetarian diets. > There are also many studies showing that people who ingest large quantities of animal fat and protein live a longer healthier life. Pan Ohco |
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"Richard Periut" > wrote in message ... > Marcelino wrote: > > Your argument makes no sense at all, and what criteria do you have to judge > > standards? > > Standards are that morons like you and your ilk, care not about the > fact, that 1/3 of the world's population are suffering from hunger and > curable diseases. > > To worry about the piggies and the whales, is trivial. And why is that, exactly? What makes humans more worthy of concern, really? You stand upon your soap box preaching and making blanket judgements...what are YOU doing to ease human suffering? Or is it that you just contribute and then point fingers? kimberly > > > > > > > > The fact that an innocent animal life is being destroyed to tempt the taste > > buds of an idiot like yourself > > > > is the reason why such videos exist to increase peoples' awareness of animal > > suffering and > > > > butchery. > > > > > > > > > >>A video which portrays a few sick and frustrated freaks, doesn't stand > >>as the standard for killing pigs in the pork industry. > >> > >>It's just amazing the way these hypocrites try to raise awareness of > >>animal suffering, without shedding an iota of evidence to human > >>suffering; the children dying of hunger and *Curable* diseases in > >>Africa, India, et cetera. > >> > >>I'm sure these people, with their cotton candy lives, driving their > >>BMW's, and drinking California wine, would rather see a whale, a pig, a > >>chicken, or a mink saved, before 10 human children can be fed and healed. > >> > >>What friggin quintessential hypocrisy! > >> > >>Richard > >> > >>-- > >>"..A census taker once tried to test me. I ate his liver with some fava > >>beans and a nice chianti..." > >> > >>Hannibal "The Cannibal" > >> > >>Silence Of The Lambs 1991 > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > "..A census taker once tried to test me. I ate his liver with some fava > beans and a nice chianti..." > > Hannibal "The Cannibal" > > Silence Of The Lambs 1991 > |
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"Pan Ohco" > wrote in message ... > On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 02:02:55 GMT, "C. James Strutz" > > wrote: > > > > >"Darryl L. Pierce" > wrote in message > ws.com... > >> C. James Strutz wrote: > >> > >> > You're right that overpopulation is a problem. However, I contend that > >not > >> > eating meat and dairy raises the quality of life rather than lowering > >> > it.... > >> > >> How? > > > >Because it's more healthful in the long term. There are many studies showing > >that people live longer healthier lives on vegetarian diets. > > > There are also many studies showing that people who ingest large > quantities of animal fat and protein live a longer healthier life. Please produce some links to these studies you mention. I'd like to read them for myself. |
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C. James Strutz wrote:
> Please produce some links to these studies you mention. I'd like to read > them for myself. Ever heard of the Eskimos? ~john! |
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C. James Strutz wrote:
> I think that animals also have souls. Define soul... If you believe in "souls" then you believe in a religion... What religion confirms the existence of a soul in animals?... and don't give me some fercocktah New Age bullshit... ~john! ps - fercocktah... I like that word... |
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"levelwave" > wrote in message ... > C. James Strutz wrote: > > > I think that animals also have souls. > > > Define soul... Hard to define, but I think it's a form of energy that transcends life. > If you believe in "souls" then you believe in a religion... What > religion confirms the existence of a soul in animals?... and don't give > me some fercocktah New Age bullshit... I'm not a religious person and I don't care what religion(s) believes the existence in souls in animals or in people for that matter. It's my personal belief and you or anyone else don't have to like it. How 'bout those fercocktahs?! |
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"COTTP" > wrote in message . .. > In article >, > says... > > > > Sue have you ever interacted with a cow? > > > > You need only interact with common pets to know that animals have instincts, > > intellect, emotion, and can feel pain. I think that animals also have souls. > > Stimulus response and independent intellect are two different things. > Ever hear of Pavlov? As to a soul, I'm not even certain that we human > beings possess such a thing. I agree, there is no certainty or proof that humans or animals have souls. As for stimulus response versus in dependendent intellect, I stand by my observations that animals have some degree of intellect. I knew a black lab once who understood a limited vocabulary. You could use any of the words together in combination to form different meanings and the dog would generally understand. I know another dog who will head me off if I run around with his "baby" (stuffed toy) instead of simply chasing me. I had a cat who contrived various ways to wake me up in the morning to feed him breakfast, including purposefully jingling his collar and pushing magazines off of the headboard. And surely you have heard of primates who improvise tools on their own (which, until then, was among the criteria that scientists used to distinguish intelligence between humans and animals) and can communicate with humans using sign language. Those go way beyond Pavlovian stimulus and response. |
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What place better to post such a link.A Food Group..And surprised at the
reactions I recieved.Not at all.I expected it.This is a food group right.Now If I had posted it in a (for Instance) Vega group.Wouldn't recieve such stupid answeres from them.On my Meat eaters Like 99%of you hear..<Do not take responsibility for my action..> What ,,You all know I started the post.So I guess I am guilty,Guilty for the link yes.Guilty for what ignorance you have ,Not at all..Well..I think I am actually done with this newsgroup.All you people just Messed it up with your stupidityAnd I should have know that 90%of all post were done by Males..who have to compete with one another..Compete with whomever you like.finish your little war against one another,I have better thinks than to argue who is right or who is wrong.I gave the link and you all destroyed the newsgroup with your uneducated minds.So..... "Pan Ohco" > wrote in message news  > On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 00:24:20 GMT, "Marcelino" > > wrote: > > >If you are refering to me as Him Travis..You should be saying to HER..Yes I > >have laughed to the post because if you have read it all you would know > >why..All this is about now is who can slam the other person harder ..I > >laughed at one asshole here.He knows who he is..For the simple fact that he > >is here to start trouble and call me names because I proved him wrong so now > >he wants to get back at me by slandering my Mothers Name..Come on people.All > >I did was (like I said before).Post a link and the rest of the newsgroup > >took it over..Do with it what you will.You people seem like all you want to > >do is turn this into a game to see who is going to win.I was serious about > >the link and wanted other to view it.. > > Marcelino, > By posting a link, you appear to support the basic thrust of that > page. > You posted a link to a PETA page. > You posted it to a food group. > PETA opposes the eating of animals. > And you are surprised at the reaction that you received? > Are you that incredibly naive, or do you not take responsibility for > your actions? > Pan Ohco |
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Marcelino wrote:
> > What place better to post such a link.A Food Group..And surprised at the > reactions I recieved.Not at all.I expected it.This is a food group right.Now > If I had posted it in a (for Instance) Vega group.Wouldn't recieve such > stupid answeres from them.On my Meat eaters Like 99%of you hear..<Do not > take responsibility for my action..> What ,,You all know I started the > post.So I guess I am guilty,Guilty for the link yes.Guilty for what > ignorance you have ,Not at all..Well..I think I am actually done with this > newsgroup.All you people just Messed it up with your stupidityAnd I should > have know that 90%of all post were done by Males..who have to compete with > one another..Compete with whomever you like.finish your little war against > one another,I have better thinks than to argue who is right or who is > wrong.I gave the link and you all destroyed the newsgroup with your > uneducated minds.So..... So easy to laugh at, they should be in comedy. nancy |
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