is it try that canada out lawed aluminum for cooking? if so & why?

On Wed, 1 Oct 2003 17:28:28 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

> is it try that canada out lawed aluminum for cooking? if so & why?

No. I do not personally own aluminum, but you can still buy
it in the store.

Shirley Hicks
Toronto, Ontario

wrote in message >...
> is it try that canada out lawed aluminum for cooking? if so & why?

Nope..
But some researchers think there is a link between aluminum and
Alzheimer's - not proven though.

"Tanya Quinn" > wrote in message
om...
> wrote in message
>...
> > is it try that canada out lawed aluminum for cooking? if so & why?
>
> Nope..
> But some researchers think there is a link between aluminum and
> Alzheimer's - not proven though.

This notion has been thoroughly disproven.


--
Peter Aitken

Remove the crap from my email address before using.

Peter Aitken wrote:

> This notion has been thoroughly disproven.


I wouldn't go so far as to say it's been disproven... Only science has
failed to prove it... Here's something I found on the Alzheimer's
Association of America's website...

The following points summarize some of the conflicting findings about
aluminum and Alzheimer’s disease:

• Aluminum is known to be toxic to the nervous system, but its effects
differ from those of Alzheimer’s disease.
• Some studies show elevated aluminum levels in the Alzheimer brain, but
others do not. These studies include both “bulk” investigations
measuring amounts of aluminum by weight and advanced analysis using
laser microprobes.
• There is some evidence that in laboratory cultures of nerve cells,
aluminum promotes aggregation of the protein fragment beta-amyloid into
the amyloid plaques that are a hallmark Alzheimer abnormality. However,
efforts to correlate aluminum levels with plaque density in people with
Alzheimer’s have been inconclusive.
• Research has failed to document a clear elevation of Alzheimer risk in
individuals with occupational exposure to aluminum.
• Studies finding the most consistent link have examined elevated levels
of aluminum in drinking water and increased incidence of Alzheimer’s.
However, there is no evidence that Alzheimer’s disease is more prevalent
in cultures that traditionally drink large amounts of tea, even though
tea is one of the few plants whose leaves accumulate large amounts of
aluminum that may leach into the brewed beverage.

just food for thought... err I guess I should say "lack of thought"

~john



--
What was it like to see - the face of your own stability - suddenly look
away...

"Peter Aitken" > wrote:
>"Tanya Quinn" > wrote in message
>> But some researchers think there is a link between aluminum and
>> Alzheimer's - not proven though.
>This notion has been thoroughly disproven.

Really? My father's a research in alzheimer disease, and he doesn't
let us use aluminum. He wrote an article on the subject:

***

Alzheimer's-disease-like changes in tau protein processing:
association with aluminium accumulation in brains of renal dialysis
patients.

Harrington CR, Wischik CM, McArthur FK, Taylor GA, Edwardson JA, Candy
JM

Lancet 1994 Apr 23;343(8904):993-7

Tau protein is a major structural protein of the paired helical
filaments (PHFs) found in both neuritic senile plaques and
neurofibrillary tangles in Alzheimer's disease (AD). Senile plaques
also contain amyloid beta protein (A beta). We did an immunochemical
analysis of frontal cortex from 15 dialysis cases, 5 Alzheimer's
disease patients, and 6 control cases to see whether AD-like changes
in A beta deposition and tau protein were linked to aluminium
accumulation. Dialysis patients were used because they are frequently
exposed to increased levels of aluminium. 8 of the 15 dialysis cases
had insoluble A beta, but there was no association between its
presence and the accumulation of aluminium. However, we found AD-like
changes in the processing of tau protein. In white matter, truncated
tau protein in the PHF-core fraction and endogenously truncated tau in
the supernatant fraction were both increased in association with
aluminium accumulation in the brain. In grey matter, normal tau
protein was depleted and insoluble hyperphosphorylated tau increased
in association with aluminium concentration. Protease-resistant PHFs
were present in grey matter in 2 dialysis cases, a frequency above
that expected for AD in this age group. PHF-core tau in both grey and
white matter correlated with decreased levels of normal tau protein in
white matter. These findings are consistent with a role for aluminium
in the development of AD-like pathology in patients subjected to
prolonged aluminium exposure.

See also comment in Lancet 1994 Apr 23;343(8904):989-90, Lancet 1994
Jul 16;344(8916):204-5, Lancet 1994 Aug 13;344(8920):486


--
Lucian

http://zapatopi.net/afdb.html


In ,
Lucian Wischik > typed:
> "Peter Aitken" > wrote:
>> "Tanya Quinn" > wrote in message
>>> But some researchers think there is a link between aluminum and
>>> Alzheimer's - not proven though.
>> This notion has been thoroughly disproven.
>
> Really? My father's a research in alzheimer disease, and he doesn't
> let us use aluminum. He wrote an article on the subject:
>
> ***
>
> Alzheimer's-disease-like changes in tau protein processing:
> association with aluminium accumulation in brains of renal dialysis
> patients.
>
> Harrington CR, Wischik CM, McArthur FK, Taylor GA, Edwardson JA, Candy
> JM
>
> Lancet 1994 Apr 23;343(8904):993-7
>
> Tau protein is a major structural protein of the paired helical
> filaments (PHFs) found in both neuritic senile plaques and
> neurofibrillary tangles in Alzheimer's disease (AD). Senile plaques
> also contain amyloid beta protein (A beta). We did an immunochemical
> analysis of frontal cortex from 15 dialysis cases, 5 Alzheimer's
> disease patients, and 6 control cases to see whether AD-like changes
> in A beta deposition and tau protein were linked to aluminium
> accumulation. Dialysis patients were used because they are frequently
> exposed to increased levels of aluminium. 8 of the 15 dialysis cases
> had insoluble A beta, but there was no association between its
> presence and the accumulation of aluminium. However, we found AD-like
> changes in the processing of tau protein. In white matter, truncated
> tau protein in the PHF-core fraction and endogenously truncated tau in
> the supernatant fraction were both increased in association with
> aluminium accumulation in the brain. In grey matter, normal tau
> protein was depleted and insoluble hyperphosphorylated tau increased
> in association with aluminium concentration. Protease-resistant PHFs
> were present in grey matter in 2 dialysis cases, a frequency above
> that expected for AD in this age group. PHF-core tau in both grey and
> white matter correlated with decreased levels of normal tau protein in
> white matter. These findings are consistent with a role for aluminium
> in the development of AD-like pathology in patients subjected to
> prolonged aluminium exposure.
>
> See also comment in Lancet 1994 Apr 23;343(8904):989-90, Lancet 1994
> Jul 16;344(8916):204-5, Lancet 1994 Aug 13;344(8920):486
>
>
> --
> Lucian

Encyclopædia Britannica

aluminum (Al)

also spelled Aluminium chemical element, a lightweight, silvery-white metal of
main Group IIIa (boron group) of the periodic table. Aluminum is the most
abundant metallic element in the Earth's crust and the most widely used
nonferrous metal. Because of its chemical activity, aluminum never occurs in
the metallic form in nature, but its compounds are present to a greater or
lesser extent in almost all rocks, vegetation, and animals. Aluminum is
concentrated in the outer 10 miles (16 km) of the Earth's crust, of which it
constitutes about 8 percent by weight; it is exceeded in amount only by oxygen
and silicon.

from Encyclopædia Britannica Premium Service.
<http://www.britannica.com/eb/article?eu=6036>
[Accessed October 4, 2003].


---= BOYCOTT FRENCH--GERMAN (belgium) =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
Sheldon
````````````
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."

"Lucian Wischik" > wrote in message
...
> "Peter Aitken" > wrote:
> >"Tanya Quinn" > wrote in message
> >> But some researchers think there is a link between aluminum and
> >> Alzheimer's - not proven though.
> >This notion has been thoroughly disproven.
>
> Really? My father's a research in alzheimer disease, and he doesn't
> let us use aluminum. He wrote an article on the subject:
>

Very limited number of people involved and all were dialysis patients.
Could be other factors at work here also. Not to disparage your father's
work, but I think he has to go further with it to give credible evidence.
This is just a tiny piece of a big puzzle.
Ed

"Edwin Pawlowski" > wrote in
:

>> Really? My father's a research in alzheimer disease, and he doesn't
>> let us use aluminum. He wrote an article on the subject:
>>
>

I'm glad your father's a research. But how to you live not using aluminum?
It is in most everything from toothpaste to cloth. Even cotton fibres have
aluminum content. I myself wouldn't like being naked with rotting teeth.

Hahabogus > wrote:
>Lucian wrote:
>>> Really? My father's a research in alzheimer disease, and he doesn't
>>> let us use aluminum. He wrote an article on the subject:
>I'm glad your father's a research. But how to you live not using aluminum?
>It is in most everything from toothpaste to cloth. Even cotton fibres have
>aluminum content. I myself wouldn't like being naked with rotting teeth.

Sorry, the thread was about aluminium cookware, but I forgot the word
"cookware" from my response. He wanted us to stop using aluminum-based
deoderants but we couldn't find any alternatives. I suspect that
cotton fibres yields a much lower rate of aluminium ingestion than
would pots/pans.

--
Lucian

"Edwin Pawlowski" > wrote:
>Very limited number of people involved and all were dialysis patients.
>Could be other factors at work here also.

Sure. I merely disagreed with an earlier poster who claimed the
aluminium link was "thoroughly disproven."

--
Lucian

Lucian Wischik > wrote in
:

> Hahabogus > wrote:
>>Lucian wrote:
>>>> Really? My father's a research in alzheimer disease, and he doesn't
>>>> let us use aluminum. He wrote an article on the subject:
>>I'm glad your father's a research. But how to you live not using
>>aluminum? It is in most everything from toothpaste to cloth. Even
>>cotton fibres have aluminum content. I myself wouldn't like being
>>naked with rotting teeth.
>
> Sorry, the thread was about aluminium cookware, but I forgot the word
> "cookware" from my response. He wanted us to stop using aluminum-based
> deoderants but we couldn't find any alternatives. I suspect that
> cotton fibres yields a much lower rate of aluminium ingestion than
> would pots/pans.
>
> --
> Lucian
>

You are forgetting all the cans that store your food. I imagion that a can
of food sitting on a shelf for a year would absorb a lot more alunminum
than 15 minutes in a frying pan. So no beer,Soda pop, tuna ,salmon or
various other items including drinking boxes that can't be in your diet.

If in fact (and that is a big if) Aluminum was a major factor in alzheimer
everybody since about 1960 would have it. Even preperation H came in
aluminum tubes it still might. Better to worry over what can leech out of
the plastic wraps and containers than to worry over Aluminum.

In article > , Hahabogus
> writes:

>Lucian Wischik > wrote in
:
>
>> Hahabogus > wrote:
>>>Lucian wrote:
>>>>> Really? My father's a research in alzheimer disease, and he doesn't
>>>>> let us use aluminum. He wrote an article on the subject:
>>>I'm glad your father's a research. But how to you live not using
>>>aluminum? It is in most everything from toothpaste to cloth. Even
>>>cotton fibres have aluminum content. I myself wouldn't like being
>>>naked with rotting teeth.
>>
>> Sorry, the thread was about aluminium cookware, but I forgot the word
>> "cookware" from my response. He wanted us to stop using aluminum-based
>> deoderants but we couldn't find any alternatives. I suspect that
>> cotton fibres yields a much lower rate of aluminium ingestion than
>> would pots/pans.
>>
>> --
>> Lucian
>>
>
>You are forgetting all the cans that store your food. I imagion that a can
>of food sitting on a shelf for a year would absorb a lot more alunminum
>than 15 minutes in a frying pan. So no beer,Soda pop, tuna ,salmon or
>various other items including drinking boxes that can't be in your diet.
>
>If in fact (and that is a big if) Aluminum was a major factor in alzheimer
>everybody since about 1960 would have it. Even preperation H came in
>aluminum tubes it still might.

Medicinal ointments were not packaged in tubes made of aluminum... the old
tubes were made of zinc, even toothpaste tubes were of zinc... but now with the
advent of plastic ...

>Better to worry over what can leech out of
>the plastic wraps and containers than to worry over Aluminum.

All aluminum cans containing food/drink are coated with food grade plastics,
not because of concerns about alzheimers but to act as an insulator against
electrolytic action, which would quickly cause the can to literally
disintegrate... unless the aluminum containers are somehow damaged no aluminum
ever comes into direct contact with its contents. In fact all steel cans are
coated with plastics as well.


---= BOYCOTT FRENCH--GERMAN (belgium) =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
Sheldon
````````````
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."

Hahabogus > wrote:
>You are forgetting all the cans that store your food. I imagion that a can
>of food sitting on a shelf for a year would absorb a lot more alunminum
>than 15 minutes in a frying pan. So no beer,Soda pop, tuna ,salmon or
>various other items including drinking boxes that can't be in your diet.

Beer from bottles. Don't drink pop, but when we buy it we buy it in
plastic bottles. Fresh tuna and salmon from the fishmonger. Wine from
bottles. There's almost no aluminium in our food products.

>If in fact (and that is a big if) Aluminum was a major factor in alzheimer
>everybody since about 1960 would have it. Even preperation H came in
>aluminum tubes it still might. Better to worry over what can leech out of
>the plastic wraps and containers than to worry over Aluminum.

Half of all fifty year-olds have alzheimers. For 80-year-olds the
figure rises to something like 95%. Have you met patients with
alzheimers, or spoken to their families or carers? it's
heart-breaking. I worry a great deal about alzheimers.

--
Lucian

Lucian Wischik wrote:

> Half of all fifty year-olds have alzheimers. For 80-year-olds the
> figure rises to something like 95%.

I have to wonder where you got these statistics?

nancy

Nancy Young > writes:

>Lucian Wischik wrote:
>
>> Half of all fifty year-olds have alzheimers. For 80-year-olds the
>> figure rises to something like 95%.
>
>I have to wonder where you got these statistics?

Obviously made up on the spot (cites no corroborative references) as with all
the rest.


---= BOYCOTT FRENCH--GERMAN (belgium) =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
Sheldon
````````````
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."

"Lucian Wischik" > wrote in message

> Fresh tuna and salmon from the fishmonger.
.. There's almost no aluminium in our food products.
>

If you care at all what you ingest, you'd not be eating tuna and salmon.
The mercury content is far greater than what you can get from a potato cook
in an aluminum pan.

Perhaps you should expand your research a bit.
Ed

On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 14:54:43 -0400, zenit >
wrote:

>On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 18:57:26 +0200, Lucian Wischik >
>had to open a new box of zerones to say
>
>>Hahabogus > wrote:
>>>You are forgetting all the cans that store your food. I imagion that a can
>>>of food sitting on a shelf for a year would absorb a lot more alunminum
>>>than 15 minutes in a frying pan. So no beer,Soda pop, tuna ,salmon or
>>>various other items including drinking boxes that can't be in your diet.
>>
>>Beer from bottles. Don't drink pop, but when we buy it we buy it in
>>plastic bottles. Fresh tuna and salmon from the fishmonger. Wine from
>>bottles. There's almost no aluminium in our food products.
>>
>>>If in fact (and that is a big if) Aluminum was a major factor in alzheimer
>>>everybody since about 1960 would have it. Even preperation H came in
>>>aluminum tubes it still might. Better to worry over what can leech out of
>>>the plastic wraps and containers than to worry over Aluminum.
>>
>>Half of all fifty year-olds have alzheimers. For 80-year-olds the
>>figure rises to something like 95%. Have you met patients with
>>alzheimers, or spoken to their families or carers? it's
>>heart-breaking. I worry a great deal about alzheimers.
>
>There are no scientific findings which support your statements;
>therefore, I must conclude that you're not only full of shit, you are
>a troll...
>
><! -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- >
>zenit

I'd try to argue about this stuff, myself, but I'm over fifty and
can't connect the dots anymore.

Anybody here remember Joel Ehrlich? He was quick to disabuse people
of their fears concerning an aluminum/Alzheimer's connection. As I
recall, Joel, who was/is a professional cook, happily pointed out that
almost all commercial kitchen pans are aluminum. If aluminum scares
you, don't eat out. Ever.


modom

Since I lost the brindle cat,
The rats come right up and peer into the pot.
-- Han Shan

Hahabogus wrote:

> "Edwin Pawlowski" > wrote in
> :
>
>
>>>Really? My father's a research in alzheimer disease, and he doesn't
>>>let us use aluminum. He wrote an article on the subject:
>>>
>>
>
> I'm glad your father's a research. But how to you live not using aluminum?
> It is in most everything from toothpaste to cloth. Even cotton fibres have
> aluminum content. I myself wouldn't like being naked with rotting teeth.

Not a pretty picture!!!!

--
Alan

"If you reject the food, ignore the customs, fear the religion, and
avoid the people, you might better stay home."
--James Michener

Nancy Young wrote:

> Lucian Wischik wrote:
>
>
>>Half of all fifty year-olds have alzheimers. For 80-year-olds the
>>figure rises to something like 95%.
>
>
> I have to wonder where you got these statistics?
>
> nancy
Mayb, what he meant to say was that 95% of alzheimer victims are over
80 years old.
--
Alan

"If you reject the food, ignore the customs, fear the religion, and
avoid the people, you might better stay home."
--James Michener

modom wrote:

> On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 14:54:43 -0400, zenit >
> wrote:
>
>
>>On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 18:57:26 +0200, Lucian Wischik >
>>had to open a new box of zerones to say
>>
>>
>>>Hahabogus > wrote:
>>>
>>>>You are forgetting all the cans that store your food. I imagion that a can
>>>>of food sitting on a shelf for a year would absorb a lot more alunminum
>>>>than 15 minutes in a frying pan. So no beer,Soda pop, tuna ,salmon or
>>>>various other items including drinking boxes that can't be in your diet.
>>>
>>>Beer from bottles. Don't drink pop, but when we buy it we buy it in
>>>plastic bottles. Fresh tuna and salmon from the fishmonger. Wine from
>>>bottles. There's almost no aluminium in our food products.
>>>
>>>
>>>>If in fact (and that is a big if) Aluminum was a major factor in alzheimer
>>>>everybody since about 1960 would have it. Even preperation H came in
>>>>aluminum tubes it still might. Better to worry over what can leech out of
>>>>the plastic wraps and containers than to worry over Aluminum.
>>>
>>>Half of all fifty year-olds have alzheimers. For 80-year-olds the
>>>figure rises to something like 95%. Have you met patients with
>>>alzheimers, or spoken to their families or carers? it's
>>>heart-breaking. I worry a great deal about alzheimers.
>>
>>There are no scientific findings which support your statements;
>>therefore, I must conclude that you're not only full of shit, you are
>>a troll...
>>
>><! -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- >
>>zenit
>
>
> I'd try to argue about this stuff, myself, but I'm over fifty and
> can't connect the dots anymore.
>
> Anybody here remember Joel Ehrlich? He was quick to disabuse people
> of their fears concerning an aluminum/Alzheimer's connection. As I
> recall, Joel, who was/is a professional cook, happily pointed out that
> almost all commercial kitchen pans are aluminum. If aluminum scares
> you, don't eat out. Ever.

Joel's retired now, but he still knows what he's talking about.

Aluminum is the most plentiful metal on earth. Virtually everything we
eat has at least traces of it. Here's a decent web site about aluminum
and its effects and properties.
<http://dcnutrition.com/minerals/Detail.CFM?RecordNumber=35>

Pastorio


>
>
> modom
>
> Since I lost the brindle cat,
> The rats come right up and peer into the pot.
> -- Han Shan

On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 09:17:28 +0200, Lucian Wischik > wrote:

>Really? My father's a research in alzheimer disease, and he doesn't
>let us use aluminum. He wrote an article on the subject:

well I hope you never ate an antacid tablet. as you get about 100 times more
aluminum then you could every get in a lifetime of pan use.
aluminum is in a lot of things it is a pretty plentiful element.

--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.

Nancy Young wrote:
>Lucian Wischik wrote:
>> Half of all fifty year-olds have alzheimers. For 80-year-olds the
>> figure rises to something like 95%.
>I have to wonder where you got these statistics?

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, my father is a researcher in the
field, so it's a common topic of discussion at the dinner table. The
usually quoted statistics is 10% of 65-y-o, rising to 50% of 85-y-o.
e.g. here
http://seniorcare-solution.com/resource.html
We reckon these are drastically under-reporting the prevelance. Why?
-- because Brauch Stage 1 is hard to diagnose. Patients can cover up
their lapses easily. It's hard to distinguish vascular dementia from
alzheimer's dementia. And we're conditioned to accept forgetfulness as
such a natural part of ageing that we don't even bother asking what
condition has caused it.

--
Lucian