I am kind of new to diabetes and carb counting. My main problem is
going out to eat. I have no idea how much carbs I am eating most of the
time. Tonight I went to Red Lobster. They have some items with "carb"
values but they look like Net Carb values which are totally useless to
me. What is the best way to get carbohydrate information on
restaurants, especially small non-national restaurants? I need the
total carbohydrate values for various menu meal items. I often ask the
waitress and they mostly shrug their shoulders. Any ideas you have
would be appreciated.

Would a carb guide to fast food chains help? A link to one of those was
posted not long ago.


Skinny
----------


On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 03:35:01 GMT, Douglas Sur wrote:

> I am kind of new to diabetes and carb counting. My main problem is
> going out to eat. I have no idea how much carbs I am eating most of the
> time. Tonight I went to Red Lobster. They have some items with "carb"
> values but they look like Net Carb values which are totally useless to
> me. What is the best way to get carbohydrate information on
> restaurants, especially small non-national restaurants? I need the
> total carbohydrate values for various menu meal items. I often ask the
> waitress and they mostly shrug their shoulders. Any ideas you have
> would be appreciated.

Would a carb guide to fast food chains help? A link to one of those was
posted not long ago.


Skinny
----------


On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 03:35:01 GMT, Douglas Sur wrote:

> I am kind of new to diabetes and carb counting. My main problem is
> going out to eat. I have no idea how much carbs I am eating most of the
> time. Tonight I went to Red Lobster. They have some items with "carb"
> values but they look like Net Carb values which are totally useless to
> me. What is the best way to get carbohydrate information on
> restaurants, especially small non-national restaurants? I need the
> total carbohydrate values for various menu meal items. I often ask the
> waitress and they mostly shrug their shoulders. Any ideas you have
> would be appreciated.

On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 03:35:01 GMT, Douglas Sur
> Huffed and Puffed the following into the
madness of usenet:

>I am kind of new to diabetes and carb counting. My main problem is
>going out to eat. I have no idea how much carbs I am eating most of the
>time. Tonight I went to Red Lobster. They have some items with "carb"
>values but they look like Net Carb values which are totally useless to
>me. What is the best way to get carbohydrate information on
>restaurants, especially small non-national restaurants? I need the
>total carbohydrate values for various menu meal items. I often ask the
>waitress and they mostly shrug their shoulders. Any ideas you have
>would be appreciated.


The paperback pocket sized book sold at www.calorieking.com is
excellent for your purpose as it list menu items for over 170 fast
food chains and restaurants. I bought mine at my local K-mart for
less than the cover price of 6.99 U$D.

Mck©®
Type 1 since 1975
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
http://www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org



"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
President, or that we are to stand by the President
right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public."
....Theodore Roosevelt

(o o)
--ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------

"I don't know half of you
half as well as I should like;
and I like less than half of you
half as well as you deserve."

On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 03:35:01 GMT, Douglas Sur
> Huffed and Puffed the following into the
madness of usenet:

>I am kind of new to diabetes and carb counting. My main problem is
>going out to eat. I have no idea how much carbs I am eating most of the
>time. Tonight I went to Red Lobster. They have some items with "carb"
>values but they look like Net Carb values which are totally useless to
>me. What is the best way to get carbohydrate information on
>restaurants, especially small non-national restaurants? I need the
>total carbohydrate values for various menu meal items. I often ask the
>waitress and they mostly shrug their shoulders. Any ideas you have
>would be appreciated.


The paperback pocket sized book sold at www.calorieking.com is
excellent for your purpose as it list menu items for over 170 fast
food chains and restaurants. I bought mine at my local K-mart for
less than the cover price of 6.99 U$D.

Mck©®
Type 1 since 1975
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
http://www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org



"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
President, or that we are to stand by the President
right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public."
....Theodore Roosevelt

(o o)
--ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------

"I don't know half of you
half as well as I should like;
and I like less than half of you
half as well as you deserve."

On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 03:35:01 GMT, Douglas Sur >
wrote:

>I am kind of new to diabetes and carb counting. My main problem is
>going out to eat. I have no idea how much carbs I am eating most of the
>time. Tonight I went to Red Lobster. They have some items with "carb"
>values but they look like Net Carb values which are totally useless to
>me. What is the best way to get carbohydrate information on
>restaurants, especially small non-national restaurants? I need the
>total carbohydrate values for various menu meal items. I often ask the
>waitress and they mostly shrug their shoulders. Any ideas you have
>would be appreciated.

The USDA has a very large database on their website that contains
nutritional values (not just carbs, but everything that they measure) for a
wide variety of foods, and it includes the foods from popular restaurants
(Red Lobster would be on there).

If I'm not at a chain restaurant I either look up the values for what I'm
eating (estimating portion sizes as best I can), or I ask the waiter if
they can tell me (like for slices of bread) how many carbs they show as in
their bread (it is often on a package they have in the kitchen).

As you get better and more practiced at this you'll remember more values
and be able to estimate how many carbs you're getting pretty easily. It's
just a question of learning the general values.

--
Siobhan Perricone
Humans wrote the bible,
God wrote the rocks
-- Word of God by Kathy Mar

"Enrico's Uncle" > wrote in
ink.net:

> Beware of sauces and dressings with hidden carbs: sugars and
> thickeners.

The vinegarette's a lot of times are particularly sugary as is 1000
Island dressing. I also avoid Honey-Mustard dressings. I always get the
dressings on the side.

Sherry

Siobhan Perricone wrote:
> On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 03:35:01 GMT, Douglas Sur >
> wrote:
>
>
>>I am kind of new to diabetes and carb counting. My main problem is
>>going out to eat. I have no idea how much carbs I am eating most of the
>>time. Tonight I went to Red Lobster. They have some items with "carb"
>>values but they look like Net Carb values which are totally useless to
>>me. What is the best way to get carbohydrate information on
>>restaurants, especially small non-national restaurants? I need the
>>total carbohydrate values for various menu meal items. I often ask the
>>waitress and they mostly shrug their shoulders. Any ideas you have
>>would be appreciated.
>
>
> The USDA has a very large database on their website that contains
> nutritional values (not just carbs, but everything that they measure) for a
> wide variety of foods, and it includes the foods from popular restaurants
> (Red Lobster would be on there).
>
> If I'm not at a chain restaurant I either look up the values for what I'm
> eating (estimating portion sizes as best I can), or I ask the waiter if
> they can tell me (like for slices of bread) how many carbs they show as in
> their bread (it is often on a package they have in the kitchen).
>
> As you get better and more practiced at this you'll remember more values
> and be able to estimate how many carbs you're getting pretty easily. It's
> just a question of learning the general values.
>

What is the USDA web site?

"Douglas Sur" <.net> wrote in message trnddc09...
>
> Sorry, I don't really know the proper definitions for carbs and such.
> The bottom line is though, I should use total carbs when calculating my
> insulin injection right?

correct.....

>
> I am basically a type I diabetic. I was a diabetic for 20 years, then
> in 1997 had a kidney/pancreas transplant. I was off insulin/diet. I
> ate everything. Life was pretty good. Recently, my pancreas transplant
> failed, so I am back to being a type I diabetic. I am trying to learn
> the new diabetic system. Currently, I am on a lantus/novalog pen
> routine. I use a ThermaSense Freestyle Flash meter. The transplant
> center set me up with this. I check my Bg about 5/6 times/day. I made
> an appointment with an endocrinologist and I am going to ask them about
> switching me to the pump. I talked today with a Animas insulin pump
> salesman today. He is going to come by and give me a dog and pony show
> of their product.

Lantus/Novolog is the poor man's pump...... they have greatly improved the
flat activity profile required of a basal insulin...... the pump is an
expensive solution unless you have very good insurance coverage


>
> From the transplant side, I am researching whether it is worth getting
> another pancreas transplant or just simply staying a type I diabetic.
> There are pro's and con's to each side. Any comments would be
appreciated.

the new insulin's and the pump make life so much easier than in the day
where we relied on NPH for basal and Regular for bolus insulin........ this
is a highly personal choice for you to make...... i'm just hoping for when
Lantus comes to Canada!!!!

a side point.... you may want to change your newsgroup settings to have your
reply address set up as so that the spam bots don't catch
your e-mail addy and spam you to bits....... i think i hit over 100 spam's a
day because i didn't realize this for my first 3 months posting on usenet
sigh
kate

--
Join us in the Diabetic-Talk Chatroom on UnderNet
/server irc.undernet.org --- /join #Diabetic-Talk
More info: http://www.diabetic-talk.org/
I have no medical qualifications beyond my own experience.
Choose your advisers carefully, because experience can be
an expensive teacher.

Douglas Sur wrote:
>
> Priscilla H. Ballou wrote:

> > There are no carbs in fat. Net carbs is generally the amount of carbs
> > that will affect your blood sugar.
>
> Ok, when I see my endocrinologist I will ask her about this. Currently,
> I usually just read the total carbs on the side of a package and
> calculate how much insulin to give based on that. I think the problem,
> if I use Net carbs is most things don't have that info on the label.
> What do you do in that scenario? Thanks for the info.

Net carbs = total carbs minus fiber. In the US, the fiber component of
the total carbs is usually indented underneath the total number. The
total will be broken down by sugars, fiber, and other. Simply subtract
the number for the fiber from the total carbs to get the net carbs.

Products from outside the US often have fiber listed separately, and in
that case, the total carbs is the same as the net carbs.

Fiber doesn't raise BG, but, in T2s at least, it can slow any spike.
Fat has the same effect.

Hope this helps!

Priscilla, T2

"Kat" > wrote in message
om...
> I thought I was the only one who had a horrible spike after eating white
> rice. I love Chinese food, but everytime I eat it, my glucose readings go
> right out the window. Fried rice really spikes it. I can eat pasta, but
lo
> mein noodles also spike. Does anyone know of any "safe" (for lack of a
> better word) Chinese food that maybe won't make me spike? (I realize what
> works for everyone else may not work for me, but I would appreciate
> suggestions.)

Chinese food doesn't work very well for me either, so I try to avoid it. I
really like tomato beef, but it's too carby. I will sometimes get pepper
steak and eat only a small amount with a spoonful of rice mixed in. Fried
wontons work well for me and I seem to be able to eat quite a few of those,
even though they're not a favorite and I know they're not good for me. I've
also been able to eat a small egg roll or spring roll. Since I can never
find a suitable meal at a Chinese restaurant, I always have the food
delivered or I bring it home. I order a variety of other dishes that my
family likes. Then I take a little bit and fill out my meal with plain
green beans or a salad that I've made.

--
See my webpage:
http://mysite.verizon.net/juliebove/index.htm

On 18-Jan-2005, "Kat" > wrote:

> I thought I was the only one who had a horrible spike after eating white
> rice. I love Chinese food, but everytime I eat it, my glucose readings go
>
> right out the window. Fried rice really spikes it. I can eat pasta, but
> lo
> mein noodles also spike. Does anyone know of any "safe" (for lack of a
> better word) Chinese food that maybe won't make me spike? (I realize what
>
> works for everyone else may not work for me, but I would appreciate
> suggestions.)
>
> --
> Kat

When I eat out at Chinese/Asian restaurants, I skip the rice (except for an
occasional bowl of sizzling rice soup). At home, take-out or home cooked, I
substitute orzo (rice shaped pasta) or barley. Barley has a low glycemic
index and has little impact on my levels.


x-- 100 Proof News - http://www.100ProofNews.com
x-- 3,500+ Binary NewsGroups, and over 90,000 other groups
x-- Access to over 1 Terabyte per Day - $8.95/Month
x-- UNLIMITED DOWNLOAD

"L" > wrote in message
...

> When I eat out at Chinese/Asian restaurants, I skip the rice (except for
an
> occasional bowl of sizzling rice soup). At home, take-out or home cooked,
I
> substitute orzo (rice shaped pasta) or barley. Barley has a low glycemic
> index and has little impact on my levels.

Wish I could do barley since I love it! I do have a recipe for tomato soup
with barely. Oddly, it contains quite a lot of barely and yet it works well
for me. But any other way I've tried it, it has been spike city.

--
See my webpage:
http://mysite.verizon.net/juliebove/index.htm

"L" > wrote in message
...

> When I eat out at Chinese/Asian restaurants, I skip the rice (except for
an
> occasional bowl of sizzling rice soup). At home, take-out or home cooked,
I
> substitute orzo (rice shaped pasta) or barley. Barley has a low glycemic
> index and has little impact on my levels.

Wish I could do barley since I love it! I do have a recipe for tomato soup
with barely. Oddly, it contains quite a lot of barely and yet it works well
for me. But any other way I've tried it, it has been spike city.

--
See my webpage:
http://mysite.verizon.net/juliebove/index.htm

"Priscilla H. Ballou" > wrote in message
...

> Don't eat the starch. Eat just the dishes.

I think that's taking low carb to a new extreme! And somehow, I think the
dishes would be more expensive than the food that goes on them.

--
See my webpage:
http://mysite.verizon.net/juliebove/index.htm

"Priscilla H. Ballou" > wrote in message
...

> Don't eat the starch. Eat just the dishes.

I think that's taking low carb to a new extreme! And somehow, I think the
dishes would be more expensive than the food that goes on them.

--
See my webpage:
http://mysite.verizon.net/juliebove/index.htm

On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 18:34:19 GMT, Douglas Sur >
wrote:

Hi Douglas

You said:
|
|Thanks for the tips. Being asian, I eat a lot asian food. I guess, I
|need to pay more attention to the preparation. I am having trouble with
| white rice. It seems to shoot my Bg way up all the time.

|I can't stop eating this.

|I tried eating the brown rice ... bleah ... I didn't like that at all.

You've got some decisions to make. You don't "have" to make any changes
at all. You can eat what you want, do what you want - but you've been to
hell before and you don't want to go there again.

Get rid of the word "can't" in relation to the things you need to change
to fight this beast.

I love Chinese, Indian, Pakistani, Thai, Japanese or almost any Asian
food - all with plenty of boiled or fried rice. I also enjoyed all
forms of potato - mash, chips (fries), baked, boiled, patties; my
favourite casserole was Irish Stew (full of spuds), my favourite
vegetable was sweet corn, my favourite fruit was watermelon, my
favourite drink was orange juice. And I couldn't get through the day
without plenty of bread and a litre of milk.

Once I started testing and learning what those foods did to my BGs (not
to mention my wasitline), I found that I had to drastically reduce the
portion sizes of all those foods and several others. In some cases the
reduction was so great that it was a waste of time buying them. So I
haven't bought a watermelon for two years, I'm still using the last of a
kg of rice bought in 2002, and I gave my new (at dx) juicer away as a
gift. And when I eat out, I eat no rice at all. I'll have possibly a
tiny portion of naan bread or pappadams or similar, but no rice.

As you are type 1 (thanks for the reply) then you have the ability to
balance that rice with insulin - but as the type 1s here can attest,
it's not quite that simple. I'll stay out of that, as I'm type 2.

So all I'm really saying is to listen closely to the type 1s here when
they give you advice on carbs, insulin and so on, and don't make any
unbreakable rules for yourself about what you can eat, and what you
can't give up. But whatever you do, educate yourself thoroughly on the
nature of the insulin/carb relationship for T1s.


Cheers, Alan, T2 d&e, Australia.
Remove weight and carbs to email.
--
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.

On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 18:34:19 GMT, Douglas Sur >
wrote:

Hi Douglas

You said:
|
|Thanks for the tips. Being asian, I eat a lot asian food. I guess, I
|need to pay more attention to the preparation. I am having trouble with
| white rice. It seems to shoot my Bg way up all the time.

|I can't stop eating this.

|I tried eating the brown rice ... bleah ... I didn't like that at all.

You've got some decisions to make. You don't "have" to make any changes
at all. You can eat what you want, do what you want - but you've been to
hell before and you don't want to go there again.

Get rid of the word "can't" in relation to the things you need to change
to fight this beast.

I love Chinese, Indian, Pakistani, Thai, Japanese or almost any Asian
food - all with plenty of boiled or fried rice. I also enjoyed all
forms of potato - mash, chips (fries), baked, boiled, patties; my
favourite casserole was Irish Stew (full of spuds), my favourite
vegetable was sweet corn, my favourite fruit was watermelon, my
favourite drink was orange juice. And I couldn't get through the day
without plenty of bread and a litre of milk.

Once I started testing and learning what those foods did to my BGs (not
to mention my wasitline), I found that I had to drastically reduce the
portion sizes of all those foods and several others. In some cases the
reduction was so great that it was a waste of time buying them. So I
haven't bought a watermelon for two years, I'm still using the last of a
kg of rice bought in 2002, and I gave my new (at dx) juicer away as a
gift. And when I eat out, I eat no rice at all. I'll have possibly a
tiny portion of naan bread or pappadams or similar, but no rice.

As you are type 1 (thanks for the reply) then you have the ability to
balance that rice with insulin - but as the type 1s here can attest,
it's not quite that simple. I'll stay out of that, as I'm type 2.

So all I'm really saying is to listen closely to the type 1s here when
they give you advice on carbs, insulin and so on, and don't make any
unbreakable rules for yourself about what you can eat, and what you
can't give up. But whatever you do, educate yourself thoroughly on the
nature of the insulin/carb relationship for T1s.


Cheers, Alan, T2 d&e, Australia.
Remove weight and carbs to email.
--
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.

"Douglas Sur" > wrote in message
news:OVbHd.10157$Os6.3225@trnddc08...
> Alan wrote:
>> On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 03:35:01 GMT, Douglas Sur >
>> wrote:
>>
>> |I am kind of new to diabetes and carb counting. My main problem is
>> |going out to eat. I have no idea how much carbs I am eating most of the
>> |time. Tonight I went to Red Lobster. They have some items with "carb"
>> |values but they look like Net Carb values which are totally useless to
>> |me. What is the best way to get carbohydrate information on
>> |restaurants, especially small non-national restaurants? I need the
>> |total carbohydrate values for various menu meal items. I often ask the
>> |waitress and they mostly shrug their shoulders. Any ideas you have
>> |would be appreciated.
>>
>> Hi Douglas
>>
>> Now that you've got your book, a little more reading for you. Have a
>> look at http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/NewlyDiagnosed.htm . If you
>> follow that advice it will assist you to understand exactly what the
>> foods you eat do to your BG readings.
>>
>> Which group are you reading on?
>>
>>
>> Cheers, Alan, T2 d&e, Australia.
>> Remove weight and carbs to email.
>
> Read the page, thanks. I haven't settled on a diabetic newsgroup yet. Any
> pro's and con's to each of them?

print out ANY information you think sounds good and show it to your doctor
or dietitian.

/
"Douglas Sur" > wrote in message
news:LEcHd.6585$IP6.5252@trnddc05...

>>
>>
>>
>
> Thanks for the tips. Being asian, I eat a lot asian food. I guess, I need
> to pay more attention to the preparation. I am having trouble with white
> rice. It seems to shoot my Bg way up all the time. I can't stop eating
> this. I tried eating the brown rice ... bleah ... I didn't like that at
> all.

I don't like the brown rice either. sometimes I mix white with the brown.
if white rice seems to shoot your bg way up try eating less of it.
the only foods I avoid are foods that I end up eating too much of.
--
Information you can trust from the diabetes experts...
Your American Diabetes Association
http://www.diabetes.org/home.jsp
See the Empire State Building Pose with my VTX
http://www.gantlet.000k2.com

Douglas Sur wrote:
> RK wrote:
>
>> If you were a T1 prior for 20yrs... how did you handle it then?
>>
>> Your endo should help you setup a carb/insulin ratio for you
>> to follow.
>>
>
> I was a wild college kid in total denial. I didn't handle things well
> at all. I was on NPH/Regular but was a terrible diabetic. Even after
> college I didn't take good care. Then came the Renal Failure, Organ
> Transplanet, complications, etc.. I have learned the hard way, that if
> you don't have your health, you don't have anything.

You are the first Type 1 and transplant recipient we have had for quite
awhile. Can you tell us a bit more about your transplant and how and if
it complicates your diabetes management?

I probably had Type 2 before my renal failure and transplant, but it
wasn't formally diagnosed until after. Cyclosporine (Neoral) and
prednisone both raise my BG's and require some juggling of meds and
diets to get around the medically induced spikes.

Dennis (Type 2, Kidney Transplant 1995)

Dennis Rekuta wrote:
> Douglas Sur wrote:
>
>> RK wrote:
>>
>>> If you were a T1 prior for 20yrs... how did you handle it then?
>>>
>>> Your endo should help you setup a carb/insulin ratio for you
>>> to follow.
>>>
>>
>> I was a wild college kid in total denial. I didn't handle things well
>> at all. I was on NPH/Regular but was a terrible diabetic. Even after
>> college I didn't take good care. Then came the Renal Failure, Organ
>> Transplanet, complications, etc.. I have learned the hard way, that if
>> you don't have your health, you don't have anything.
>
>
> You are the first Type 1 and transplant recipient we have had for quite
> awhile. Can you tell us a bit more about your transplant and how and if
> it complicates your diabetes management?
>
> I probably had Type 2 before my renal failure and transplant, but it
> wasn't formally diagnosed until after. Cyclosporine (Neoral) and
> prednisone both raise my BG's and require some juggling of meds and
> diets to get around the medically induced spikes.
>
> Dennis (Type 2, Kidney Transplant 1995)

I wish I could. I am still trying to understand everything. My diabetes
management is still in flux.

Thomas Muffaletto wrote:
>>
>>
>>"Douglas Sur" > wrote in message
>>news:Kf7Hd.13263$c%6.484@trnddc03...
>>
>>
>>>>Why are net carb values useless to you? This is the way I was taught
>>>>to
>>>>count carbs.
>>>>
>>>
>>>I was taught to use the total carbohydrate value which includes fat,
>>>sugar, whatever. I am sure someone else knows all the intricate details
>>>why total is better than net carb counting.
>>
>>Total carbs do not include fat. They do include fiber, and if you don't
>>subtract that out, then you are not getting the correct or "net" carbs.
>>The
>>sugar count is meaningless.
>>
>
>
>
> Douglas to me the sugar count is far from meaningless.
> if something has 45 carbs and 45 carbs are coming from sugar ( it could even
> be from fruit )
> IT IS NOT THE SAME AS 45 CARBS WITH 15 CARBS COMING FROM SUGAR.
> just as something with 45 carbs that does not have sugar is totally
> different.
> then you have to add the fiber into the mix.

How so? Can you explain further?

Dennis Rekuta wrote:
> Douglas Sur wrote:
>
>> RK wrote:
>>
>>> If you were a T1 prior for 20yrs... how did you handle it then?
>>>
>>> Your endo should help you setup a carb/insulin ratio for you
>>> to follow.
>>>
>>
>> I was a wild college kid in total denial. I didn't handle things well
>> at all. I was on NPH/Regular but was a terrible diabetic. Even after
>> college I didn't take good care. Then came the Renal Failure, Organ
>> Transplanet, complications, etc.. I have learned the hard way, that if
>> you don't have your health, you don't have anything.
>
>
> You are the first Type 1 and transplant recipient we have had for quite
> awhile. Can you tell us a bit more about your transplant and how and if
> it complicates your diabetes management?
>
> I probably had Type 2 before my renal failure and transplant, but it
> wasn't formally diagnosed until after. Cyclosporine (Neoral) and
> prednisone both raise my BG's and require some juggling of meds and
> diets to get around the medically induced spikes.
>
> Dennis (Type 2, Kidney Transplant 1995)

Tonight the transplant coordinator called and asked if I wanted to be
the 2nd backup for a new pancreas. I said no. I am not sure I did the
right thing.

After reading all the posts today, it seems like it is very complicated
to get Bg into the right range. It's like the diabetes is stealing a
lot of brain cycles from my day. I am more focused on this than work or
anything else. With my pancreas transplant, I took my meds in the
morning then I was off on my merry way. I didn't have to worry about
what I was eating or what my Bg was.

Unfortunately, the decision is not that easy. There are lots of
downsides to the 2nd pancreas transplant. I wish decisions were easier.

"Douglas Sur" > wrote in message
news:XhkHd.17033$c%6.3529@trnddc03...
> Thomas Muffaletto wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>"Douglas Sur" > wrote in message
>>>news:Kf7Hd.13263$c%6.484@trnddc03...
>>>
>>>
>>>>>Why are net carb values useless to you? This is the way I was taught
>>>>>to
>>>>>count carbs.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I was taught to use the total carbohydrate value which includes fat,
>>>>sugar, whatever. I am sure someone else knows all the intricate details
>>>>why total is better than net carb counting.
>>>
>>>Total carbs do not include fat. They do include fiber, and if you don't
>>>subtract that out, then you are not getting the correct or "net" carbs.
>>>The
>>>sugar count is meaningless.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Douglas to me the sugar count is far from meaningless.
>> if something has 45 carbs and 45 carbs are coming from sugar ( it could
>> even be from fruit )
>> IT IS NOT THE SAME AS 45 CARBS WITH 15 CARBS COMING FROM SUGAR.
>> just as something with 45 carbs that does not have sugar is totally
>> different.
>> then you have to add the fiber into the mix.
>
> How so? Can you explain further?

first off - I sometimes say " I think" when I actually know
but lets face it when it comes to nutrition there are alot of opinions.

Most of what I studied about nutrition before diagnosed diabetic
was from mostly professional body building ( nope never had a body like that
but have looked good from time to time )
When I was into weight lifting I thought of food more along the lines
as a fuel and didn't think of it as turning to sugar as I do now.
in body building nutrition is probably 1 of the most important areas.
if you don't fuel your body right you will not become a champion.
That is basically why I eat the way I do and it is the easiest way I know of
to
have constant energy.
I eat 3 meals and 2 or 3 snacks a day 45 carbs each meal and snack - snacks
usually don't have protein.
breakfast -
15 carbs of fruit
15 Net carbs of bran cereal + the nice amount of fiber.
about 10 carbs from milk.

I believe eating something fast acting like
a fruit will prevent me from having a liver dump.
but I guess veggies is also a good choice if not better
depends on the rest of your diet I guess. something like
bread would take longer for me.
anyway the fuel part.
the fruit gives me energy first and fastest
as I come down from the fruit the bran kicks in
as energy. if there wasn't any bran there or something like whole wheat
bread or what ever
my energy level and blood sugar would go way down.
In short I always time my carbs so as one is almost used
up another one is waiting to take its place.
so
45 carbs from bread with fruit is not the same as
45 carbs from bread or
45 carbs from fruit.
I don't know how much you know about this stuff
but a dietitian is a great starting place.


Tom

Information you can trust from the diabetes experts...
Your American Diabetes Association
http://www.diabetes.org/home.jsp
See My Little Doggies
http://www.gantlet.000k2.com/

On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 22:44:02 GMT, "Julie Bove"
> Huffed and Puffed the following into the
madness of usenet:

>
>
>
>"Kat" > wrote in message
. com...
>> I thought I was the only one who had a horrible spike after eating white
>> rice. I love Chinese food, but everytime I eat it, my glucose readings go
>> right out the window. Fried rice really spikes it. I can eat pasta, but
>lo
>> mein noodles also spike. Does anyone know of any "safe" (for lack of a
>> better word) Chinese food that maybe won't make me spike? (I realize what
>> works for everyone else may not work for me, but I would appreciate
>> suggestions.)
>
>Chinese food doesn't work very well for me either, so I try to avoid it. I
>really like tomato beef, but it's too carby. I will sometimes get pepper
>steak and eat only a small amount with a spoonful of rice mixed in. Fried
>wontons work well for me and I seem to be able to eat quite a few of those,
>even though they're not a favorite and I know they're not good for me. I've
>also been able to eat a small egg roll or spring roll. Since I can never
>find a suitable meal at a Chinese restaurant, I always have the food
>delivered or I bring it home. I order a variety of other dishes that my
>family likes. Then I take a little bit and fill out my meal with plain
>green beans or a salad that I've made.


I do quite well at chinese buffets. You get to pick exactly what you
want to eat and how much I'll get a small portion of rice noodles and
stir fried rice, maybe 2 table spoons each. Get the meat from the
dishes I like making sure to drain as much of the sauces off. Then I
fill up on the roasted veggies and since almost all of the chinese
places here that I go to have incorporated a mongolian style stir fry
set up I get my veggies and meats stir fried in the ingredients I
choose. If I were into sushi, all of them have fresh sushi bars as
well.

Mck©®
Type 1 since 1975
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
http://www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org



"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
President, or that we are to stand by the President
right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public."
....Theodore Roosevelt

(o o)
--ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------

"I don't know half of you
half as well as I should like;
and I like less than half of you
half as well as you deserve."

On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 19:17:20 -0500, "Thomas Muffaletto"
> Huffed and Puffed the following into the
madness of usenet:

>
>
>>
>>
>>
>> "Douglas Sur" > wrote in message
>> news:Kf7Hd.13263$c%6.484@trnddc03...
>>
>>> > Why are net carb values useless to you? This is the way I was taught
>>> > to
>>> > count carbs.
>>> >
>>>
>>> I was taught to use the total carbohydrate value which includes fat,
>>> sugar, whatever. I am sure someone else knows all the intricate details
>>> why total is better than net carb counting.
>>
>> Total carbs do not include fat. They do include fiber, and if you don't
>> subtract that out, then you are not getting the correct or "net" carbs.
>> The
>> sugar count is meaningless.
>>
>
>
>Douglas to me the sugar count is far from meaningless.
>if something has 45 carbs and 45 carbs are coming from sugar ( it could even
>be from fruit )
>IT IS NOT THE SAME AS 45 CARBS WITH 15 CARBS COMING FROM SUGAR.
>just as something with 45 carbs that does not have sugar is totally
>different.
>then you have to add the fiber into the mix.


actually I've that it doesn't matter. if it's 45 carbs coming from
added sugar or 45 carbs coming from rice or bread or anything else. I
take the appropriate amount of insulin to cover that many carbs and my
BG will be fine. You see for a type 1, unless it's a food item that
you know will have a delayed spike several hours later, the timing is
centered around the speed of your insulin. In the case of a food that
spikes like pizza, you split your dose.

Mck©®
Type 1 since 1975
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
http://www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org



"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
President, or that we are to stand by the President
right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public."
....Theodore Roosevelt

(o o)
--ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------

"I don't know half of you
half as well as I should like;
and I like less than half of you
half as well as you deserve."

On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 10:31:55 +1000, Alan
> Huffed and Puffed the following
into the madness of usenet:

>
>On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 18:27:04 -0500, "Priscilla H. Ballou"
> wrote:
>
>|Don't eat the starch. Eat just the dishes.
>|
>|Priscilla
>
>Too true Priscilla - I've never had a spike from ceramic or porcelain.
>Not sure about those cardboard dishes though, although I suppose the
>cellulose is mainly fibre.
>
>
>Cheers, Alan, T2 d&e, Australia.
>Remove weight and carbs to email.

watch out for the glue, many hidden carbs.

Mck©®
Type 1 since 1975
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
http://www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org



"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
President, or that we are to stand by the President
right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public."
....Theodore Roosevelt

(o o)
--ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------

"I don't know half of you
half as well as I should like;
and I like less than half of you
half as well as you deserve."

"Ma¢k " > wrote in message
news
> I do quite well at chinese buffets. You get to pick exactly what you
> want to eat and how much I'll get a small portion of rice noodles and
> stir fried rice, maybe 2 table spoons each. Get the meat from the
> dishes I like making sure to drain as much of the sauces off. Then I
> fill up on the roasted veggies and since almost all of the chinese
> places here that I go to have incorporated a mongolian style stir fry
> set up I get my veggies and meats stir fried in the ingredients I
> choose. If I were into sushi, all of them have fresh sushi bars as
> well.

I've tried the buffets, but my problem is I really only like tomato beef or
pepper steak. I don't like any of the dishes that are just vegetables. And
the few times I do find a dish I would normally like, I find that they've
use a fatty cut of meat or it has been left on the steam table for so long
it is dried out. You couldn't get me to try sushi, no matter how cute it
looks!

--
See my webpage:
http://mysite.verizon.net/juliebove/index.htm

On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 03:33:46 GMT, Douglas Sur > Huffed
and Puffed the following into the madness of usenet:

>
>Tonight the transplant coordinator called and asked if I wanted to be
>the 2nd backup for a new pancreas. I said no. I am not sure I did the
>right thing.
>
>After reading all the posts today, it seems like it is very complicated
>to get Bg into the right range. It's like the diabetes is stealing a
>lot of brain cycles from my day. I am more focused on this than work or
>anything else. With my pancreas transplant, I took my meds in the
>morning then I was off on my merry way. I didn't have to worry about
>what I was eating or what my Bg was.
>
>Unfortunately, the decision is not that easy. There are lots of
>downsides to the 2nd pancreas transplant. I wish decisions were easier.


what kind of downsides are there over and above those you had with the
first transplant?

Mck©®
Type 1 since 1975
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
http://www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org



"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
President, or that we are to stand by the President
right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public."
....Theodore Roosevelt

(o o)
--ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------

"I don't know half of you
half as well as I should like;
and I like less than half of you
half as well as you deserve."

On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 05:42:14 GMT, "Julie Bove"
> Huffed and Puffed the following into the
madness of usenet:

>
>
>
>"Ma¢k " > wrote in message
>news >
>> I do quite well at chinese buffets. You get to pick exactly what you
>> want to eat and how much I'll get a small portion of rice noodles and
>> stir fried rice, maybe 2 table spoons each. Get the meat from the
>> dishes I like making sure to drain as much of the sauces off. Then I
>> fill up on the roasted veggies and since almost all of the chinese
>> places here that I go to have incorporated a mongolian style stir fry
>> set up I get my veggies and meats stir fried in the ingredients I
>> choose. If I were into sushi, all of them have fresh sushi bars as
>> well.
>
>I've tried the buffets, but my problem is I really only like tomato beef or
>pepper steak. I don't like any of the dishes that are just vegetables. And
>the few times I do find a dish I would normally like, I find that they've
>use a fatty cut of meat or it has been left on the steam table for so long
>it is dried out. You couldn't get me to try sushi, no matter how cute it
>looks!


I can't bring myself to eat sushi either. but not because it is
sushi, rather I know if any of it comes from the local waters it's
safer to cook it. And I will never eat raw fish that came in frozen.
I've worked in the food service industry here way too long to take the
risks.

Mck©®
Type 1 since 1975
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
http://www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org



"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
President, or that we are to stand by the President
right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public."
....Theodore Roosevelt

(o o)
--ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------

"I don't know half of you
half as well as I should like;
and I like less than half of you
half as well as you deserve."

"Dennis Rekuta" > wrote in message
. ..
: Douglas Sur wrote:
: > RK wrote:
: >
: >> If you were a T1 prior for 20yrs... how did you handle it then?
: >>
: >> Your endo should help you setup a carb/insulin ratio for you
: >> to follow.
: >>
: >
: > I was a wild college kid in total denial. I didn't handle things well
: > at all. I was on NPH/Regular but was a terrible diabetic. Even after
: > college I didn't take good care. Then came the Renal Failure, Organ
: > Transplanet, complications, etc.. I have learned the hard way, that if
: > you don't have your health, you don't have anything.

I'm slightly confused Douglas. In your inital post you state.
"I am kind of new to diabetes and carb counting"

then in another post "I am basically a type I diabetic. I was a diabetic
for 20 years, then
in 1997 had a kidney/pancreas transplant."

How old were you when you were diagnosed? The reason I'm asking is because
your words of "I am basically a type I diabetic." Leads me to believe that
because you've
had a pancreas transplant and take insulin that makes you a T1. Which might
or might
not be. If you were a T2 prior and had a pancreas transplant, iirc you
still "are" a T2, just
a T2-transplant recipient, insulin dependant. Not necessarily a "T1" which
is a autoimmune
disease. People have the misconception, bob for one. But if you have
insulin resistance
you need to be aware of that problem and treat it accordingly when you
adjust your
foods. If you have no resistance then thats another entirely different way
for treating
glucose when you eat. so, yes in a way you do need to know and understand
which "type"
you are, otherwise a T2 might be helping you, whereas you're really in need
a T1's help, or
vise versa.

btw Dennis sorry for hijacking your reply, I have Killfiled
and didn't
see his reply.

--
RK - t1
*Disclaimer: i'm not a doctor. I only share personal
experience of being a diabetic. I have no textbook
learning, only life itself.
----------------------
In tribute to the United States of America and the State
of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and
terrorism.

"Kat" > wrote in
om:

> I thought I was the only one who had a horrible spike after eating
> white rice. I love Chinese food, but everytime I eat it, my glucose
> readings go right out the window. Fried rice really spikes it. I
> can eat pasta, but lo mein noodles also spike. Does anyone know of
> any "safe" (for lack of a better word) Chinese food that maybe won't
> make me spike? (I realize what works for everyone else may not work
> for me, but I would appreciate suggestions.)
>

I had Chinese the other night and like a bad girl, didn't do my blood
sugar afterwards.

A lot of the dishes contain sugar. Ask them to hold the sugar. Yeah,
it'll taste like it's missing something, but it does anyway when I ask
them to hold the MSG.

And just don't eat rice (love fried rice myself)

Sherry

Julie Bove wrote:
>
> "Priscilla H. Ballou" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> > Don't eat the starch. Eat just the dishes.
>
> I think that's taking low carb to a new extreme! And somehow, I think the
> dishes would be more expensive than the food that goes on them.

Hah hah. "Dish" = the stuff you put on the rice.

Priscilla

Julie Bove wrote:
>
> "Priscilla H. Ballou" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> > Don't eat the starch. Eat just the dishes.
>
> I think that's taking low carb to a new extreme! And somehow, I think the
> dishes would be more expensive than the food that goes on them.

Hah hah. "Dish" = the stuff you put on the rice.

Priscilla

> What is the best way to get carbohydrate information on restaurants

IMO, your best bet is to learn the carb counts in foods. This isn't
exact but will let you count things up for yourself. For example, a
piece of regular bread is roughly 15 g of carbs. I try to work in 100g
units...easier to do my goesinta's that way

It will take time but over time (this is a lifelong endeavor) you will
get the hang of it.

Alan wrote:
>
> On 19 Jan 2005 14:29:21 GMT, Sherry > wrote:
>
> |"Kat" > wrote in
> . com:
> |
> |> I thought I was the only one who had a horrible spike after eating
> |> white rice. I love Chinese food, but everytime I eat it, my glucose
> |> readings go right out the window. Fried rice really spikes it. I
> |> can eat pasta, but lo mein noodles also spike. Does anyone know of
> |> any "safe" (for lack of a better word) Chinese food that maybe won't
> |> make me spike? (I realize what works for everyone else may not work
> |> for me, but I would appreciate suggestions.)
> |>
> |
> |I had Chinese the other night and like a bad girl, didn't do my blood
> |sugar afterwards.
> |
> |A lot of the dishes contain sugar. Ask them to hold the sugar. Yeah,
> |it'll taste like it's missing something, but it does anyway when I ask
> |them to hold the MSG.
> |
> |And just don't eat rice (love fried rice myself)
> |
> |Sherry
>
> Hi Sherry
>
> I presume you also tell them to hold the flour, cornflour, honey,
> noodles, oyster sauce, chinese sherry and any other carbs in the dish
> that may spike you......

I don't (except for noodles) because I've found I can handle that amount
of carb, but the rice (or noodles) pushes me waaaaaaaaay over the line.

Priscilla

Thomas Muffaletto wrote:
> "Douglas Sur" > wrote in message
> news:XhkHd.17033$c%6.3529@trnddc03...
>
>>Thomas Muffaletto wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>>"Douglas Sur" > wrote in message
>>>>news:Kf7Hd.13263$c%6.484@trnddc03...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>Why are net carb values useless to you? This is the way I was taught
>>>>>>to
>>>>>>count carbs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>I was taught to use the total carbohydrate value which includes fat,
>>>>>sugar, whatever. I am sure someone else knows all the intricate details
>>>>>why total is better than net carb counting.
>>>>
>>>>Total carbs do not include fat. They do include fiber, and if you don't
>>>>subtract that out, then you are not getting the correct or "net" carbs.
>>>>The
>>>>sugar count is meaningless.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Douglas to me the sugar count is far from meaningless.
>>>if something has 45 carbs and 45 carbs are coming from sugar ( it could
>>>even be from fruit )
>>>IT IS NOT THE SAME AS 45 CARBS WITH 15 CARBS COMING FROM SUGAR.
>>>just as something with 45 carbs that does not have sugar is totally
>>>different.
>>>then you have to add the fiber into the mix.
>>
>>How so? Can you explain further?
>
>
> first off - I sometimes say " I think" when I actually know
> but lets face it when it comes to nutrition there are alot of opinions.
>
> Most of what I studied about nutrition before diagnosed diabetic
> was from mostly professional body building ( nope never had a body like that
> but have looked good from time to time )
> When I was into weight lifting I thought of food more along the lines
> as a fuel and didn't think of it as turning to sugar as I do now.
> in body building nutrition is probably 1 of the most important areas.
> if you don't fuel your body right you will not become a champion.
> That is basically why I eat the way I do and it is the easiest way I know of
> to
> have constant energy.
> I eat 3 meals and 2 or 3 snacks a day 45 carbs each meal and snack - snacks
> usually don't have protein.
> breakfast -
> 15 carbs of fruit
> 15 Net carbs of bran cereal + the nice amount of fiber.
> about 10 carbs from milk.
>
> I believe eating something fast acting like
> a fruit will prevent me from having a liver dump.
> but I guess veggies is also a good choice if not better
> depends on the rest of your diet I guess. something like
> bread would take longer for me.
> anyway the fuel part.
> the fruit gives me energy first and fastest
> as I come down from the fruit the bran kicks in
> as energy. if there wasn't any bran there or something like whole wheat
> bread or what ever
> my energy level and blood sugar would go way down.
> In short I always time my carbs so as one is almost used
> up another one is waiting to take its place.
> so
> 45 carbs from bread with fruit is not the same as
> 45 carbs from bread or
> 45 carbs from fruit.
> I don't know how much you know about this stuff
> but a dietitian is a great starting place.
>
>
> Tom
>
> Information you can trust from the diabetes experts...
> Your American Diabetes Association
> http://www.diabetes.org/home.jsp
> See My Little Doggies
> http://www.gantlet.000k2.com/
>
>

What resource do you use to find how "fast acting" a food is? Does this
have to do with Glycemic values?

In alt.support.diabetes Alan > wrote:
: On 19 Jan 2005 14:29:21 GMT, Sherry > wrote:

: |"Kat" > wrote in
: . com:
: |
: |I had Chinese the other night and like a bad girl, didn't do my blood
: |sugar afterwards.
: |
: |A lot of the dishes contain sugar. Ask them to hold the sugar. Yeah,
: |it'll taste like it's missing something, but it does anyway when I ask
: |them to hold the MSG.
: |
: |And just don't eat rice (love fried rice myself)
: |
: |Sherry

: Hi Sherry

: I presume you also tell them to hold the flour, cornflour, honey,
: noodles, oyster sauce, chinese sherry and any other carbs in the dish
: that may spike you......


: Cheers, Alan, T2 d&e, Australia.
: Remove weight and carbs to email.
: --
: Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.

Alan,

I find, if I order carefully, not taking anything "extra crispy" or
twoice fried , or "sweet and sour", and ask for no cornstarch and no
sugar, and have it with only a litle brown rice, I can do fine in a
Chinese restaruant. Inth US the crispy noodles generally come on the side
with any soup you order, and i don't order noodle dishes. Somewhat
limiting, but better than none.

Wendy

On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 21:32:16 +0000 (UTC), "W. Baker" >
wrote:

|In alt.support.diabetes Alan > wrote:
|: On 19 Jan 2005 14:29:21 GMT, Sherry > wrote:
|
|: |"Kat" > wrote in
|: . com:
|: |
|: |I had Chinese the other night and like a bad girl, didn't do my blood
|: |sugar afterwards.
|: |
|: |A lot of the dishes contain sugar. Ask them to hold the sugar. Yeah,
|: |it'll taste like it's missing something, but it does anyway when I ask
|: |them to hold the MSG.
|: |
|: |And just don't eat rice (love fried rice myself)
|: |
|: |Sherry
|
|: Hi Sherry
|
|: I presume you also tell them to hold the flour, cornflour, honey,
|: noodles, oyster sauce, chinese sherry and any other carbs in the dish
|: that may spike you......
|
|
|: Cheers, Alan, T2 d&e, Australia.
|: Remove weight and carbs to email.
|: --
|: Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
|
|Alan,
|
|I find, if I order carefully, not taking anything "extra crispy" or
|twoice fried , or "sweet and sour", and ask for no cornstarch and no
|sugar, and have it with only a litle brown rice, I can do fine in a
|Chinese restaruant. Inth US the crispy noodles generally come on the side
|with any soup you order, and i don't order noodle dishes. Somewhat
|limiting, but better than none.
|
|Wendy

Hi Wendy

I understand, and I do it similarly. If you re-read Sherry's post, and
then mine, you will see that the point I was trying to make wasn't
actually about Chinese food.

It was about sugar and carbs.

Cheers, Alan, T2 d&e, Australia.
Remove weight and carbs to email.
--
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.