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"Karen" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 22 Oct 2013 00:18:10 -0700, in alt.food.diabetic, "Julie Bove"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>"Todd" > wrote in message
...
>>> On 10/21/2013 07:09 PM, Karen wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> +1
>>>> Thank you for saying that Wendy. I know I certainly felt that way
>>>> when he was preaching to me about carbs.
>>>
>>> I was speaking to you in friendship. You are the one who
>>> decided to take offense.
>>>
>>>> He would say one thing and
>>>> then when called on it deny he said it even.
>>>
>>> You make crap up and then attack folks for it.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Like saying the ADA
>>>> recommended 375 g carbs a day.
>>>
>>> Prove it. I don't even know what the ADA recommends.
>>> I was talking about the labeling on packages, which
>>> I resume was the USDA's recommendations are. I even
>>> wrote you specifically that that was what I was talking
>>> about. So, there was absolutely no misunderstanding.
>>> You were the one that decided to not act civil.

>>
>>It can be easily proven. We all saw it and if one wants to go through the
>>archives they can. You won't see my post because you have me KFed so I'm
>>not
>>going to look it up. But you did say that the USDA recommends that even
>>though they don't.
>>
>>You are the one who is not acting civil. You say something nasty then say
>>that you were joking or you meant it in a different way.

>
> That's called being passive aggressive. He does it well.


Yes. I wanted to say that as well but when I said this on another newsgroup
about another person, people began attacing me and saying that it wasn't.
>
>>>> He said, then said he didn't say it.
>>>
>>> I did not. Prove it.
>>>
>>>> This was weeks ago, then over the weekend he said it again.
>>>
>>> Prove it. Stop making crap up and then attacking other
>>> for it.

>>
>>She's not making stuff up.
>>>
>>>> I certainly won't be taking what he says seriously because of it.
>>>
>>> When do you actually listen to anything anyone says anyway.
>>> You twist it and then go on the offensive. You are not
>>> acting like a nice person.

>>
>>And what would it be called that you are doing?
>>>
>>> Wendy and I disagreed and misunderstand each other all
>>> the time. She could teach you a few things about
>>> how to be a Lady and how to disagree without being
>>> disagreeable.

>>
>>OMG! I suppose this would be the same Wendy who knows of the magical,
>>mythical tests?
>>
>>> By the way, I no longer wish to offer you friendship
>>> just to have you twist what I say. You are black listed.
>>>Please don't waste you time ever writing me again.

>>
>>Ha! Like I couldn't see that coming.

>
> I'm not losing any sleep over it.


Yeah.

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"Karen" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 22 Oct 2013 00:14:11 -0700, in alt.food.diabetic, "Julie Bove"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>"Karen" > wrote in message
. ..
>>
>>> +1
>>> Thank you for saying that Wendy. I know I certainly felt that way
>>> when he was preaching to me about carbs. He would say one thing and
>>> then when called on it deny he said it even. Like saying the ADA
>>> recommended 375 g carbs a day. He said, then said he didn't say it.
>>> This was weeks ago, then over the weekend he said it again.
>>> I certainly won't be taking what he says seriously because of it.
>>> Karen

>>
>>I called out on this to begin with which is why I got put in his KF. He
>>said I was fighting with him.

>
> Yes, that seems to be the pattern, when one disagrees with him. Oh
> well, you can't please everyone. :-)


And at the rate he's going, pretty soon he won't be pleasing anyone!

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Het is zņ dat Todd formuleerde :
> On 10/22/2013 10:34 AM, Maya Zuiderweg wrote:
>> Todd heeft ons zojuist aangekondigd :
>>> On 10/21/2013 05:05 PM, wrote:
>>>> On 10/20/2013 1:11 PM, I Don't Know wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 20 Oct 2013 11:42:33 -0400, Susan > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> x-no-arhive: yes
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 10/19/2013 11:49 PM, I Don't Know wrote:
>>>>>>> Your advice could kill some people you moron.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not really.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Susan
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> He advised not to take one's prescribed meds.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That's good advice, because most meds are made by BIG Pharma and as
>>>> practically *everyone* who is not in Susan's killfile knows, BIG Pharma
>>>> is PURE EVIL.
>>>> Just like the ADA and most doctors are PURE EVIL.
>>>> You *really* ARE new here, aren't you?
>>>
>>> Actually, I never advised anyone not to take their meds.
>>> And I shared that I any finally back off them and am
>>> very happy about it. I did say you should not to use drugs
>>> so you can cheat on your carb count.

>>
>> What idiot would do that?
>> M.

>
> Hi Maya,
>
> Hmmm. I know a T2 that told me exactly how to do it. He also
> told me apple are free and he can eat as many as he wanted.
> And you get to cheat every now and then. He also told me
> he doesn't observe the restrictions and just uses insulin.
> (As I stared at him in horror and he gobbed on tons of ketchup
> on his huge white bread hamburger bun.) A little extra insulin
> he gets to eat a big old slab of pie for breakfast!
>
> He is currently on dialysis, an oxygen tank, lost both
> his legs, is on the kidney transplant list, and is recovering
> from a massive heart attack. The apple stupidity he told me
> after he lost his kidneys and had his heart attack.
>
> Other than being a carb addict and complete T2 idiot, he
> is a really decent man that a lot of people need and love.
> I have a really hard time not being *eternally ****ed* at him.
> He breaks my heart.
>
> And, if anyone is wondering, he is the source of my horror
> over those who look for ways to overdo the carbs. It is
> one thing to commit suicide yourself, but when others
> love, need, and rely on you, you have made a commitment
> and need to step up to the plate.
>
> And once you learn to cook T2/Diabetic/Paleo, the food is
> really good. Your body will readjust. There is little of no
> sacrifice after the adjustment, although you have to
> discipline your mouth to keep quiet when you see others
> consuming crap you know has a good chance of injuring them.
>
> -T
>
> Last I heard from the man, he was meeting with medical
> type that was going to tell him how to deal with T2
> naturally. He said he would eMail me the paper work.
> He never did. Probably because it was the same thing
> I told him, natural medicine (herbs) and all.


I see. Injecting more units of insulin to cover more eating.
An old trick.
Not a good trick..
M.




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Na rijp beraad schreef Julie Bove :
> "Maya Zuiderweg" <$no_spam#ma_dot_zuiderweg_@_me_dot_com#maps_on$ > wrote in
> message ...
>> Todd heeft ons zojuist aangekondigd :
>>> On 10/21/2013 05:05 PM, wrote:
>>>> On 10/20/2013 1:11 PM, I Don't Know wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 20 Oct 2013 11:42:33 -0400, Susan > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> x-no-arhive: yes
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 10/19/2013 11:49 PM, I Don't Know wrote:
>>>>>>> Your advice could kill some people you moron.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not really.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Susan
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> He advised not to take one's prescribed meds.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That's good advice, because most meds are made by BIG Pharma and as
>>>> practically *everyone* who is not in Susan's killfile knows, BIG Pharma
>>>> is PURE EVIL.
>>>> Just like the ADA and most doctors are PURE EVIL.
>>>> You *really* ARE new here, aren't you?
>>>
>>> Actually, I never advised anyone not to take their meds.
>>> And I shared that I any finally back off them and am
>>> very happy about it. I did say you should not to use drugs
>>> so you can cheat on your carb count.

>>
>> What idiot would do that?
>> M.

>
> They wouldn't because meds don't work that way. Not most of them anyway.
> Prandin and Starlix do let some people eat more carbs but Starlix didn't work
> for me. Something like Metformin isn't a "cheat" type med or even a fast
> acting one.


As I read this, it's about covering up for more food-intake with extra
insulin.
M.


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In alt.support.diabetes Todd > wrote:
: On 10/22/2013 04:42 PM, Maya Zuiderweg wrote:
: > Na rijp beraad schreef Julie Bove :
: >> "Maya Zuiderweg" <$no_spam#ma_dot_zuiderweg_@_me_dot_com#maps_on$ >
: >> wrote in message ...
: >>> Todd heeft ons zojuist aangekondigd :
: >>>> On 10/21/2013 05:05 PM, wrote:
: >>>>> On 10/20/2013 1:11 PM, I Don't Know wrote:
: >>>>>> On Sun, 20 Oct 2013 11:42:33 -0400, Susan > wrote:
: >>>>>>
: >>>>>>> x-no-arhive: yes
: >>>>>>>
: >>>>>>> On 10/19/2013 11:49 PM, I Don't Know wrote:
: >>>>>>>> Your advice could kill some people you moron.
: >>>>>>>
: >>>>>>> Not really.
: >>>>>>>
: >>>>>>> Susan
: >>>>>>
: >>>>>>
: >>>>>> He advised not to take one's prescribed meds.
: >>>>>>
: >>>>>
: >>>>> That's good advice, because most meds are made by BIG Pharma and as
: >>>>> practically *everyone* who is not in Susan's killfile knows, BIG
: >>>>> Pharma
: >>>>> is PURE EVIL.
: >>>>> Just like the ADA and most doctors are PURE EVIL.
: >>>>> You *really* ARE new here, aren't you?
: >>>>
: >>>> Actually, I never advised anyone not to take their meds.
: >>>> And I shared that I any finally back off them and am
: >>>> very happy about it. I did say you should not to use drugs
: >>>> so you can cheat on your carb count.
: >>>
: >>> What idiot would do that?
: >>> M.
: >>
: >> They wouldn't because meds don't work that way. Not most of them
: >> anyway. Prandin and Starlix do let some people eat more carbs but
: >> Starlix didn't work for me. Something like Metformin isn't a "cheat"
: >> type med or even a fast acting one.
: >
: > As I read this, it's about covering up for more food-intake with extra
: > insulin.
: > M.

: Hi Maya,

: Do you ever post recipes over on alt.food.diabetic?
: It is a good place to learn how to cook diabetic.

: He gave me instructions about how to take extra insulin
: so you could eat a piece of cake and what whatever else
: he wanted.

: Too much insulin messed you up pretty good too, even if
: you are offsetting with vast quantities of carbs, which
: also mess you up in other way besides T2.

: The guy has almost killed himself once. I do not
: see a happy ending to this. And he is a really
: decent man that other love, need, and rely on.

: An article on insulin:

:
https://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2013...olution_01.htm
: Too much insulin, the fat storage hormone, also drives
: more inflammation and oxidative stress, and produces a
: myriad of downstream effects including high blood pressure,
: high cholesterol, low HDL, high triglycerides, poor sex
: drive, infertility, thickening of the blood, and increased
: risk of cancer, Alzheimer?s, and depression.

: Probably why T1 shouldn't over do the insulin too.

: -T

No one in this group or on the food group advocates using extra insulin or
meds to cover up eating extra carbs. first of all it makes the underlying
situation worse as it puts weight on a person which means fewer carbs, etc
to be able to control ones diabetes and bgs. Second, we are not here to
find "tricks" to work around controlingour diabtes by using exta meds or
any other such things. If we believe dthat WE WOULD NoyT BE SEEKING WHAT
WE ARE HERE, a successful method of conrtoling our diabetes withotu doing
injury to ourselves and we let others know our methods. We don't really
think that there is only oneway to live with diabetes, but WE DO NOT
ADVOCATE USE OF DRugs or isulinn TO ALLOW OURSELVES TO "CHEAT"..Some may
eat more carbs, bu exercise more to keep inbalance adn some may , like
you, eat very low carb or medium carb , etc. We use what works for us and
what we can do reletively happily. Please, don't think that this group
advocates or admires diabetic cheaters who only really fool themselves.
They wuld not lst on this group.

Wendy
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"Maya Zuiderweg" <$no_spam#ma_dot_zuiderweg_@_me_dot_com#maps_on$ > wrote in
message ...
> Na rijp beraad schreef Julie Bove :
>> "Maya Zuiderweg" <$no_spam#ma_dot_zuiderweg_@_me_dot_com#maps_on$ > wrote
>> in message ...
>>> Todd heeft ons zojuist aangekondigd :
>>>> On 10/21/2013 05:05 PM, wrote:
>>>>> On 10/20/2013 1:11 PM, I Don't Know wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 20 Oct 2013 11:42:33 -0400, Susan > wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> x-no-arhive: yes
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 10/19/2013 11:49 PM, I Don't Know wrote:
>>>>>>>> Your advice could kill some people you moron.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not really.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Susan
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> He advised not to take one's prescribed meds.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> That's good advice, because most meds are made by BIG Pharma and as
>>>>> practically *everyone* who is not in Susan's killfile knows, BIG
>>>>> Pharma
>>>>> is PURE EVIL.
>>>>> Just like the ADA and most doctors are PURE EVIL.
>>>>> You *really* ARE new here, aren't you?
>>>>
>>>> Actually, I never advised anyone not to take their meds.
>>>> And I shared that I any finally back off them and am
>>>> very happy about it. I did say you should not to use drugs
>>>> so you can cheat on your carb count.
>>>
>>> What idiot would do that?
>>> M.

>>
>> They wouldn't because meds don't work that way. Not most of them anyway.
>> Prandin and Starlix do let some people eat more carbs but Starlix didn't
>> work for me. Something like Metformin isn't a "cheat" type med or even a
>> fast acting one.

>
> As I read this, it's about covering up for more food-intake with extra
> insulin.
> M.


Yes but there's much we don't know. Is he type 1 or 2? This might work for
a type 1 but probably won't with a type 2. And was it even the correct type
of insulin to do this with. We've seen stories on the newsgroups in the
past (perhaps not this one, not sure) of people taking it upon themselves to
use insulin without knowing what they were doing. And I had an elderly
friend who did stuff with insulin that wasn't the right thing to do.

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"Todd" > wrote in message
...
> On 10/22/2013 04:42 PM, Maya Zuiderweg wrote:
>> Na rijp beraad schreef Julie Bove :
>>> "Maya Zuiderweg" <$no_spam#ma_dot_zuiderweg_@_me_dot_com#maps_on$ >
>>> wrote in message ...
>>>> Todd heeft ons zojuist aangekondigd :
>>>>> On 10/21/2013 05:05 PM, wrote:
>>>>>> On 10/20/2013 1:11 PM, I Don't Know wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sun, 20 Oct 2013 11:42:33 -0400, Susan >
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> x-no-arhive: yes
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 10/19/2013 11:49 PM, I Don't Know wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Your advice could kill some people you moron.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Not really.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Susan
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> He advised not to take one's prescribed meds.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's good advice, because most meds are made by BIG Pharma and as
>>>>>> practically *everyone* who is not in Susan's killfile knows, BIG
>>>>>> Pharma
>>>>>> is PURE EVIL.
>>>>>> Just like the ADA and most doctors are PURE EVIL.
>>>>>> You *really* ARE new here, aren't you?
>>>>>
>>>>> Actually, I never advised anyone not to take their meds.
>>>>> And I shared that I any finally back off them and am
>>>>> very happy about it. I did say you should not to use drugs
>>>>> so you can cheat on your carb count.
>>>>
>>>> What idiot would do that?
>>>> M.
>>>
>>> They wouldn't because meds don't work that way. Not most of them
>>> anyway. Prandin and Starlix do let some people eat more carbs but
>>> Starlix didn't work for me. Something like Metformin isn't a "cheat"
>>> type med or even a fast acting one.

>>
>> As I read this, it's about covering up for more food-intake with extra
>> insulin.
>> M.

>
> Hi Maya,
>
> Do you ever post recipes over on alt.food.diabetic?
> It is a good place to learn how to cook diabetic.


Good golly! This is getting ridiculous. There is no way to cook diabetic.
We eat regular food just like everyone else does.
>
> He gave me instructions about how to take extra insulin
> so you could eat a piece of cake and what whatever else
> he wanted.


Maybe he did. That doesn't mean it is the right thing to do. And again, we
don't know if he is type 1 or 2 or whatever. A type 1 could perhaps easily
do this. I am not type 1. I don't want to speak for them. There is a term
for this. I don't remember what it is called. But something like shooting
insulin for a normal way of eating. I believe that sort of regimen is
designed for growing children. But again, I am not type 1 and no expert on
this.
>
> Too much insulin messed you up pretty good too, even if
> you are offsetting with vast quantities of carbs, which
> also mess you up in other way besides T2.


Too much insulin messed Maya up? You are making this sound worse and worse.
And you are coming off more and more like the idiot here.
>
> The guy has almost killed himself once. I do not
> see a happy ending to this. And he is a really
> decent man that other love, need, and rely on.


Maybe he did. Maybe he wants to die. Who knows? Nobody knows here.
Probably you don't even know.
>
> An article on insulin:
>
>
https://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2013...olution_01.htm
> Too much insulin, the fat storage hormone, also drives
> more inflammation and oxidative stress, and produces a
> myriad of downstream effects including high blood pressure,
> high cholesterol, low HDL, high triglycerides, poor sex
> drive, infertility, thickening of the blood, and increased
> risk of cancer, Alzheimers, and depression.
>
> Probably why T1 shouldn't over do the insulin too.


Who says they are overdoing insulin? Do you use insulin? Have you ever?
If not, then you probably shouldn't be preaching about it.

You strike me as a very scary person. Someone here said that you might kill
someone by the advice you are giving. I very much believe that to be true.
Nobody here is a Dr. Nobody here should be giving medical advice.

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"W. Baker" > wrote in message
...
> In alt.support.diabetes Todd > wrote:
> : On 10/22/2013 04:42 PM, Maya Zuiderweg wrote:
> : > Na rijp beraad schreef Julie Bove :
> : >> "Maya Zuiderweg" <$no_spam#ma_dot_zuiderweg_@_me_dot_com#maps_on$ >
> : >> wrote in message
> ...
> : >>> Todd heeft ons zojuist aangekondigd :
> : >>>> On 10/21/2013 05:05 PM, wrote:
> : >>>>> On 10/20/2013 1:11 PM, I Don't Know wrote:
> : >>>>>> On Sun, 20 Oct 2013 11:42:33 -0400, Susan >
> wrote:
> : >>>>>>
> : >>>>>>> x-no-arhive: yes
> : >>>>>>>
> : >>>>>>> On 10/19/2013 11:49 PM, I Don't Know wrote:
> : >>>>>>>> Your advice could kill some people you moron.
> : >>>>>>>
> : >>>>>>> Not really.
> : >>>>>>>
> : >>>>>>> Susan
> : >>>>>>
> : >>>>>>
> : >>>>>> He advised not to take one's prescribed meds.
> : >>>>>>
> : >>>>>
> : >>>>> That's good advice, because most meds are made by BIG Pharma and
> as
> : >>>>> practically *everyone* who is not in Susan's killfile knows, BIG
> : >>>>> Pharma
> : >>>>> is PURE EVIL.
> : >>>>> Just like the ADA and most doctors are PURE EVIL.
> : >>>>> You *really* ARE new here, aren't you?
> : >>>>
> : >>>> Actually, I never advised anyone not to take their meds.
> : >>>> And I shared that I any finally back off them and am
> : >>>> very happy about it. I did say you should not to use drugs
> : >>>> so you can cheat on your carb count.
> : >>>
> : >>> What idiot would do that?
> : >>> M.
> : >>
> : >> They wouldn't because meds don't work that way. Not most of them
> : >> anyway. Prandin and Starlix do let some people eat more carbs but
> : >> Starlix didn't work for me. Something like Metformin isn't a "cheat"
> : >> type med or even a fast acting one.
> : >
> : > As I read this, it's about covering up for more food-intake with extra
> : > insulin.
> : > M.
>
> : Hi Maya,
>
> : Do you ever post recipes over on alt.food.diabetic?
> : It is a good place to learn how to cook diabetic.
>
> : He gave me instructions about how to take extra insulin
> : so you could eat a piece of cake and what whatever else
> : he wanted.
>
> : Too much insulin messed you up pretty good too, even if
> : you are offsetting with vast quantities of carbs, which
> : also mess you up in other way besides T2.
>
> : The guy has almost killed himself once. I do not
> : see a happy ending to this. And he is a really
> : decent man that other love, need, and rely on.
>
> : An article on insulin:
>
> :
>
https://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2013...olution_01.htm
> : Too much insulin, the fat storage hormone, also drives
> : more inflammation and oxidative stress, and produces a
> : myriad of downstream effects including high blood pressure,
> : high cholesterol, low HDL, high triglycerides, poor sex
> : drive, infertility, thickening of the blood, and increased
> : risk of cancer, Alzheimer?s, and depression.
>
> : Probably why T1 shouldn't over do the insulin too.
>
> : -T
>
> No one in this group or on the food group advocates using extra insulin or
> meds to cover up eating extra carbs. first of all it makes the underlying
> situation worse as it puts weight on a person which means fewer carbs, etc
> to be able to control ones diabetes and bgs. Second, we are not here to
> find "tricks" to work around controlingour diabtes by using exta meds or
> any other such things. If we believe dthat WE WOULD NoyT BE SEEKING WHAT
> WE ARE HERE, a successful method of conrtoling our diabetes withotu doing
> injury to ourselves and we let others know our methods. We don't really
> think that there is only oneway to live with diabetes, but WE DO NOT
> ADVOCATE USE OF DRugs or isulinn TO ALLOW OURSELVES TO "CHEAT"..Some may
> eat more carbs, bu exercise more to keep inbalance adn some may , like
> you, eat very low carb or medium carb , etc. We use what works for us and
> what we can do reletively happily. Please, don't think that this group
> advocates or admires diabetic cheaters who only really fool themselves.
> They wuld not lst on this group.


Yes! Not only is he giving information about what could be the wrong way to
use insulin, but he is outright insulting those of us who do have to use it!



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"Todd" > wrote in message
...

> Wendy, please forgive me. I never meant to imply anyone of this group
> would do something so ferociously irresponsible. That I know
> of others not on this group that do, horrifies me. That was all I
> was getting at. I though I as talking to like minded T2's that
> would share my horror as well. I obviously did not succeed very
> well at it.


Why should anyone be horrified at what another person does? Did the man
beat someone? Kill someone? No. He didn't even break the law.

You only know what he told you. And he might not have even told you all of
it. You don't know that he was irresponsible. You don't know what he was
advised to do.

If I were this man, I would for sure want *you* out of my life!

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On 10/22/2013 08:16 PM, Todd wrote:
> On 10/22/2013 07:44 PM, W. Baker wrote:
>> In alt.support.diabetes Todd > wrote:
>> : On 10/22/2013 04:42 PM, Maya Zuiderweg wrote:
>> : > Na rijp beraad schreef Julie Bove :
>> : >> "Maya Zuiderweg" <$no_spam#ma_dot_zuiderweg_@_me_dot_com#maps_on$ >
>> : >> wrote in message
>> ...
>> : >>> Todd heeft ons zojuist aangekondigd :
>> : >>>> On 10/21/2013 05:05 PM, wrote:
>> : >>>>> On 10/20/2013 1:11 PM, I Don't Know wrote:
>> : >>>>>> On Sun, 20 Oct 2013 11:42:33 -0400, Susan
>> > wrote:
>> : >>>>>>
>> : >>>>>>> x-no-arhive: yes
>> : >>>>>>>
>> : >>>>>>> On 10/19/2013 11:49 PM, I Don't Know wrote:
>> : >>>>>>>> Your advice could kill some people you moron.
>> : >>>>>>>
>> : >>>>>>> Not really.
>> : >>>>>>>
>> : >>>>>>> Susan
>> : >>>>>>
>> : >>>>>>
>> : >>>>>> He advised not to take one's prescribed meds.
>> : >>>>>>
>> : >>>>>
>> : >>>>> That's good advice, because most meds are made by BIG Pharma
>> and as
>> : >>>>> practically *everyone* who is not in Susan's killfile knows, BIG
>> : >>>>> Pharma
>> : >>>>> is PURE EVIL.
>> : >>>>> Just like the ADA and most doctors are PURE EVIL.
>> : >>>>> You *really* ARE new here, aren't you?
>> : >>>>
>> : >>>> Actually, I never advised anyone not to take their meds.
>> : >>>> And I shared that I any finally back off them and am
>> : >>>> very happy about it. I did say you should not to use drugs
>> : >>>> so you can cheat on your carb count.
>> : >>>
>> : >>> What idiot would do that?
>> : >>> M.
>> : >>
>> : >> They wouldn't because meds don't work that way. Not most of them
>> : >> anyway. Prandin and Starlix do let some people eat more carbs but
>> : >> Starlix didn't work for me. Something like Metformin isn't a
>> "cheat"
>> : >> type med or even a fast acting one.
>> : >
>> : > As I read this, it's about covering up for more food-intake with
>> extra
>> : > insulin.
>> : > M.
>>
>> : Hi Maya,
>>
>> : Do you ever post recipes over on alt.food.diabetic?
>> : It is a good place to learn how to cook diabetic.
>>
>> : He gave me instructions about how to take extra insulin
>> : so you could eat a piece of cake and what whatever else
>> : he wanted.
>>
>> : Too much insulin messed you up pretty good too, even if
>> : you are offsetting with vast quantities of carbs, which
>> : also mess you up in other way besides T2.
>>
>> : The guy has almost killed himself once. I do not
>> : see a happy ending to this. And he is a really
>> : decent man that other love, need, and rely on.
>>
>> : An article on insulin:
>>
>> :
>>
https://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2013...olution_01.htm
>>
>> : Too much insulin, the fat storage hormone, also drives
>> : more inflammation and oxidative stress, and produces a
>> : myriad of downstream effects including high blood pressure,
>> : high cholesterol, low HDL, high triglycerides, poor sex
>> : drive, infertility, thickening of the blood, and increased
>> : risk of cancer, Alzheimer?s, and depression.
>>
>> : Probably why T1 shouldn't over do the insulin too.
>>
>> : -T
>>
>> No one in this group or on the food group advocates using extra
>> insulin or
>> meds to cover up eating extra carbs. first of all it makes the
>> underlying
>> situation worse as it puts weight on a person which means fewer carbs,
>> etc
>> to be able to control ones diabetes and bgs. Second, we are not here to
>> find "tricks" to work around controlingour diabtes by using exta meds or
>> any other such things. If we believe dthat WE WOULD NoyT BE SEEKING WHAT
>> WE ARE HERE, a successful method of conrtoling our diabetes withotu doing
>> injury to ourselves and we let others know our methods. We don't really
>> think that there is only oneway to live with diabetes, but WE DO NOT
>> ADVOCATE USE OF DRugs or isulinn TO ALLOW OURSELVES TO "CHEAT"..Some may
>> eat more carbs, bu exercise more to keep inbalance adn some may , like
>> you, eat very low carb or medium carb , etc. We use what works for us
>> and
>> what we can do reletively happily. Please, don't think that this group
>> advocates or admires diabetic cheaters who only really fool themselves.
>> They wuld not lst on this group.
>>
>> Wendy

>
> Wendy, please forgive me. I never meant to imply anyone of this group
> would do something so ferociously irresponsible. That I know
> of others not on this group that do, horrifies me. That was all I
> was getting at. I though I as talking to like minded T2's that
> would share my horror as well. I obviously did not succeed very
> well at it.
>
> -T


Hi Wendy,
Can you point me to which sentence(s) gave you the
impression I was implying those on the group were
doing suchlike? It would help me improve my writing.

-T


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On 10/21/2013 7:57 PM, Karen wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Oct 2013 19:26:21 -0700, in alt.food.diabetic, Todd
> > wrote:
>
>> On 10/21/2013 07:09 PM, Karen wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> +1
>>> Thank you for saying that Wendy. I know I certainly felt that way
>>> when he was preaching to me about carbs.

>>
>> I was speaking to you in friendship. You are the one who
>> decided to take offense.
>>
>>> He would say one thing and
>>> then when called on it deny he said it even.

>>
>> You make crap up and then attack folks for it.
>>
>>
>>> Like saying the ADA
>>> recommended 375 g carbs a day.

>>
>> Prove it. I don't even know what the ADA recommends.
>> I was talking about the labeling on packages, which
>> I resume was the USDA's recommendations are. I even
>> wrote you specifically that that was what I was talking
>> about. So, there was absolutely no misunderstanding.
>> You were the one that decided to not act civil.

>
> I'll give you this one. You didn't say the ADA, you said the USDA
> recommendation.
> Message-ID: >
> I'm sorry you think I'm not being civil, but you said I needed to
> learn to cook (paleo, I'm assuming) and yes, I did take offense to
> that. Just because I choose not to eat the same diet you do does not
> mean I'm doing it wrong. The numbers show that I'm doing fine with
> the diabetes. Also, all those food labels are based on the assumption
> that a person is eating 2000 calories a day. Those percentages are
> based on that. I maintain my weight on 1350 a day, so those
> percentages certainly don't work for me.
>
>>
>>> He said, then said he didn't say it.

>>
>> I did not. Prove it.
>>
>>> This was weeks ago, then over the weekend he said it again.

>>
>> Prove it. Stop making crap up and then attacking other
>> for it.

>
>>> I certainly won't be taking what he says seriously because of it.

>>
>> When do you actually listen to anything anyone says anyway.
>> You twist it and then go on the offensive. You are not
>> acting like a nice person.

>
> No, you attacked me by stating I was eating incorrectly (not paleo).
>
>> Wendy and I disagreed and misunderstand each other all
>> the time. She could teach you a few things about
>> how to be a Lady and how to disagree without being
>> disagreeable.

>
> Excuse me????
>
>> By the way, I no longer wish to offer you friendship
>> just to have you twist what I say. You are black listed.
>> Please don't waste you time ever writing me again.
>>
>> -T
>>
>>> Karen

>
> We were never friends to start with.
>


:-)
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In alt.support.diabetes Todd > wrote:
: >>
: >> : Too much insulin messed you up pretty good too, even if
: >> : you are offsetting with vast quantities of carbs, which
: >> : also mess you up in other way besides T2.
: >>
: >> : An article on insulin:
: >>
: >> :
: >> https://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2013...olution_01.htm
: >>
: >> : Too much insulin, the fat storage hormone, also drives
: >> : more inflammation and oxidative stress, and produces a
: >> : myriad of downstream effects including high blood pressure,
: >> : high cholesterol, low HDL, high triglycerides, poor sex
: >> : drive, infertility, thickening of the blood, and increased
: >> : risk of cancer, Alzheimer?s, and depression.
: >>
: >> : Probably why T1 shouldn't over do the insulin too.
: >>
: >> : -T
: >>
: >> No one in this group or on the food group advocates using extra
: >> insulin or
: >> meds to cover up eating extra carbs. first of all it makes the
: >> underlying
: >> situation worse as it puts weight on a person which means fewer carbs,
: >> etc
: >> to be able to control ones diabetes and bgs. Second, we are not here to
: >> find "tricks" to work around controlingour diabtes by using exta meds or
: >> any other such things. If we believe dthat WE WOULD NoyT BE SEEKING WHAT
: >> WE ARE HERE, a successful method of conrtoling our diabetes withotu doing
: >> injury to ourselves and we let others know our methods. We don't really
: >> think that there is only oneway to live with diabetes, but WE DO NOT
: >> ADVOCATE USE OF DRugs or isulinn TO ALLOW OURSELVES TO "CHEAT"..Some may
: >> eat more carbs, bu exercise more to keep inbalance adn some may , like
: >> you, eat very low carb or medium carb , etc. We use what works for us
: >> and
: >> what we can do reletively happily. Please, don't think that this group
: >> advocates or admires diabetic cheaters who only really fool themselves.
: >> They wuld not lst on this group.
: >>
: >> Wendy
: >
: > Wendy, please forgive me. I never meant to imply anyone of this group
: > would do something so ferociously irresponsible. That I know
: > of others not on this group that do, horrifies me. That was all I
: > was getting at. I though I as talking to like minded T2's that
: > would share my horror as well. I obviously did not succeed very
: > well at it.
: >
: > -T

: Hi Wendy,
: Can you point me to which sentence(s) gave you the
: impression I was implying those on the group were
: doing suchlike? It would help me improve my writing.

: -T


I left a few paragraphs. You spend far too much time preaching to the
converted and, therefore making it sound like accusations. Why quote that
insulin article, which, in this group is really quite obious. You dwell
on this fellow with teh "apples are free food" and all his sins that do
not need reiterating in this group.

We have peole who use various methods to control their diabetes (if htey
are able to) in that sence all methods are equal. If you think we all
spend our time lusting after potato cips adn ice cream and other carbsy
stuff because we are not eating Paleo, you are mistaken. Manyof us have
found our tastes have changes as we eat fewer carbs adn lessen our use of
sweets , in general. It does not take a Paleo diet to make such changes.

I, personally, take the attitude , in my cooking that I am competing with
my dibetes. It thins I can't enjoy my food, but I find interesting ways
to fool it adn eat delicious stuff, occasionally using artificial
sweeteners, but not heavily, and I cansay to my dibetes"So there. You
thought you hd me over barrel, but I showed you." this works for me and
some others, as I think it is actually working for you as you, as a
reletive newbie, discover new wys to prepare food. Just remember, in that
area, don't reinvent the wheel and sound like yu ware the first one to
discover this change in tastes .

I hope this lets you uderstand where we are coming from and where you, as
a newbie here, might go.

Wendy


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Todd beweerde :
> On 10/22/2013 04:42 PM, Maya Zuiderweg wrote:
>> Na rijp beraad schreef Julie Bove :
>>> "Maya Zuiderweg" <$no_spam#ma_dot_zuiderweg_@_me_dot_com#maps_on$ >
>>> wrote in message ...
>>>> Todd heeft ons zojuist aangekondigd :
>>>>> On 10/21/2013 05:05 PM, wrote:
>>>>>> On 10/20/2013 1:11 PM, I Don't Know wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sun, 20 Oct 2013 11:42:33 -0400, Susan > wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> x-no-arhive: yes
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 10/19/2013 11:49 PM, I Don't Know wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Your advice could kill some people you moron.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Not really.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Susan
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> He advised not to take one's prescribed meds.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's good advice, because most meds are made by BIG Pharma and as
>>>>>> practically *everyone* who is not in Susan's killfile knows, BIG
>>>>>> Pharma
>>>>>> is PURE EVIL.
>>>>>> Just like the ADA and most doctors are PURE EVIL.
>>>>>> You *really* ARE new here, aren't you?
>>>>>
>>>>> Actually, I never advised anyone not to take their meds.
>>>>> And I shared that I any finally back off them and am
>>>>> very happy about it. I did say you should not to use drugs
>>>>> so you can cheat on your carb count.
>>>>
>>>> What idiot would do that?
>>>> M.
>>>
>>> They wouldn't because meds don't work that way. Not most of them
>>> anyway. Prandin and Starlix do let some people eat more carbs but
>>> Starlix didn't work for me. Something like Metformin isn't a "cheat"
>>> type med or even a fast acting one.

>>
>> As I read this, it's about covering up for more food-intake with extra
>> insulin.
>> M.

>
> Hi Maya,
>
> Do you ever post recipes over on alt.food.diabetic?
> It is a good place to learn how to cook diabetic.
>
> He gave me instructions about how to take extra insulin
> so you could eat a piece of cake and what whatever else
> he wanted.
>
> Too much insulin messed you up pretty good too, even if
> you are offsetting with vast quantities of carbs, which
> also mess you up in other way besides T2.
>
> The guy has almost killed himself once. I do not
> see a happy ending to this. And he is a really
> decent man that other love, need, and rely on.
>
> An article on insulin:
>
>
https://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2013...olution_01.htm
> Too much insulin, the fat storage hormone, also drives
> more inflammation and oxidative stress, and produces a
> myriad of downstream effects including high blood pressure,
> high cholesterol, low HDL, high triglycerides, poor sex
> drive, infertility, thickening of the blood, and increased
> risk of cancer, Alzheimers, and depression.
>
> Probably why T1 shouldn't over do the insulin too.
>
> -T


Hi Todd,
I dont know what to make of your post.
I eat my own food and have to take care of a chronic pancreatitis and a
dolichocolon. Not your everyday common diabetes diet (if there even
*is* such an animal).
My insulin injections are to cover my intake of food.
For quite some years now I use little insulin each day.
In total 14-18 units a day.
I eat about 1800 kcal each day and am very careful.
My BMI is in the normal range.

M.


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On 10/23/2013 10:06 AM, Maya Zuiderweg wrote:
> Hi Todd,
> I dont know what to make of your post.
> I eat my own food and have to take care of a chronic pancreatitis and a
> dolichocolon. Not your everyday common diabetes diet (if there even *is*
> such an animal).
> My insulin injections are to cover my intake of food.
> For quite some years now I use little insulin each day.
> In total 14-18 units a day.
> I eat about 1800 kcal each day and am very careful.
> My BMI is in the normal range.
>
> M.


Hi Maya,

Thank you for asking, instead of getting mad. I am
working on my writing skills. It sounds like you are
perfectly on track, doing exactly what you are suppose to
do. I am delighted that you have yours under control.

This line of conversation started when someone erroneously
got on my case for saying not to take your drugs. (I never
said that.)

I was carrying on about a man I know and care about
that does some really insane things and is going to kill
himself. He almost died once already.

I do not presume for a second that ANYONE on these
groups would do something so insane for even a fraction
of a second, even the ones that argue that sugars are
not carbs.

What I thought I was accomplishing was "speaking to
the choir". What it turned out as was "criticizing the
choir". Not good. Not my intention at all. I have some
fences to repair. :'(

-T

There is an herb, which I can not vouch for yet
(I have only just started on it) that is "suppose"
(watch the weasel word) to help the pancreas.
Would you like a reference, or is this all old hat
to you?


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Todd formuleerde de vraag :
> On 10/23/2013 10:06 AM, Maya Zuiderweg wrote:
>> Hi Todd,
>> I dont know what to make of your post.
>> I eat my own food and have to take care of a chronic pancreatitis and a
>> dolichocolon. Not your everyday common diabetes diet (if there even *is*
>> such an animal).
>> My insulin injections are to cover my intake of food.
>> For quite some years now I use little insulin each day.
>> In total 14-18 units a day.
>> I eat about 1800 kcal each day and am very careful.
>> My BMI is in the normal range.
>>
>> M.

>
> Hi Maya,
>
> Thank you for asking, instead of getting mad. I am
> working on my writing skills. It sounds like you are
> perfectly on track, doing exactly what you are suppose to
> do. I am delighted that you have yours under control.
>
> This line of conversation started when someone erroneously
> got on my case for saying not to take your drugs. (I never
> said that.)
>
> I was carrying on about a man I know and care about
> that does some really insane things and is going to kill
> himself. He almost died once already.
>
> I do not presume for a second that ANYONE on these
> groups would do something so insane for even a fraction
> of a second, even the ones that argue that sugars are
> not carbs.
>
> What I thought I was accomplishing was "speaking to
> the choir". What it turned out as was "criticizing the
> choir". Not good. Not my intention at all. I have some
> fences to repair. :'(
>
> -T

Hi Todd,
Learning is what you are doing, and you are doing just fine.
Never stop learning, and you'll be okay.
>
> There is an herb, which I can not vouch for yet
> (I have only just started on it) that is "suppose"
> (watch the weasel word) to help the pancreas.
> Would you like a reference, or is this all old hat
> to you?


I wouldn't know, there are so very many herbs.
I'm curious enough to want to know which one you mean.

M.


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On Tue, 22 Oct 2013 14:36:28 -0700, in alt.food.diabetic, "Julie Bove"
> wrote:

>
>"Karen" > wrote in message
.. .
>> On Tue, 22 Oct 2013 00:14:11 -0700, in alt.food.diabetic, "Julie Bove"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Karen" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>>> +1
>>>> Thank you for saying that Wendy. I know I certainly felt that way
>>>> when he was preaching to me about carbs. He would say one thing and
>>>> then when called on it deny he said it even. Like saying the ADA
>>>> recommended 375 g carbs a day. He said, then said he didn't say it.
>>>> This was weeks ago, then over the weekend he said it again.
>>>> I certainly won't be taking what he says seriously because of it.
>>>> Karen
>>>
>>>I called out on this to begin with which is why I got put in his KF. He
>>>said I was fighting with him.

>>
>> Yes, that seems to be the pattern, when one disagrees with him. Oh
>> well, you can't please everyone. :-)

>
>And at the rate he's going, pretty soon he won't be pleasing anyone!


Really, I meant I can't please everyone. It's ok though.
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On Wed, 23 Oct 2013 23:39:56 +0200, in alt.food.diabetic, Maya
Zuiderweg <$no_spam#ma_dot_zuiderweg_@_me_dot_com#maps_on$ > wrote:

>Todd formuleerde de vraag :
>> On 10/23/2013 10:06 AM, Maya Zuiderweg wrote:
>>> Hi Todd,
>>> I dont know what to make of your post.
>>> I eat my own food and have to take care of a chronic pancreatitis and a
>>> dolichocolon. Not your everyday common diabetes diet (if there even *is*
>>> such an animal).
>>> My insulin injections are to cover my intake of food.
>>> For quite some years now I use little insulin each day.
>>> In total 14-18 units a day.
>>> I eat about 1800 kcal each day and am very careful.
>>> My BMI is in the normal range.
>>>
>>> M.

>>
>> Hi Maya,
>>
>> Thank you for asking, instead of getting mad. I am
>> working on my writing skills. It sounds like you are
>> perfectly on track, doing exactly what you are suppose to
>> do. I am delighted that you have yours under control.
>>
>> This line of conversation started when someone erroneously
>> got on my case for saying not to take your drugs. (I never
>> said that.)
>>
>> I was carrying on about a man I know and care about
>> that does some really insane things and is going to kill
>> himself. He almost died once already.
>>
>> I do not presume for a second that ANYONE on these
>> groups would do something so insane for even a fraction
>> of a second, even the ones that argue that sugars are
>> not carbs.
>>
>> What I thought I was accomplishing was "speaking to
>> the choir". What it turned out as was "criticizing the
>> choir". Not good. Not my intention at all. I have some
>> fences to repair. :'(
>>
>> -T

>Hi Todd,
>Learning is what you are doing, and you are doing just fine.
>Never stop learning, and you'll be okay.
>>
>> There is an herb, which I can not vouch for yet
>> (I have only just started on it) that is "suppose"
>> (watch the weasel word) to help the pancreas.
>> Would you like a reference, or is this all old hat
>> to you?

>
>I wouldn't know, there are so very many herbs.
>I'm curious enough to want to know which one you mean.
>
>M.
>


You've all been very chatty since I was offline later yesterday and
most of today. We had gone out of town for my mother being laid to
rest. Just got home. Will mostly be busy the next few days getting
the house ready for my brother's homecoming after 7 months in the
hospital, so may only have a few minutes here and there to read the
conversations here.

I know Todd may not see this, but I have heard good things about
bitter melon and diabetes and glucose control, cinnamon too. I have
not yet tried either. Does anyone here have input on either of these?

Karen


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"Karen" > wrote in message
news
> On Wed, 23 Oct 2013 23:39:56 +0200, in alt.food.diabetic, Maya
> Zuiderweg <$no_spam#ma_dot_zuiderweg_@_me_dot_com#maps_on$ > wrote:
>
>>Todd formuleerde de vraag :
>>> On 10/23/2013 10:06 AM, Maya Zuiderweg wrote:
>>>> Hi Todd,
>>>> I dont know what to make of your post.
>>>> I eat my own food and have to take care of a chronic pancreatitis and a
>>>> dolichocolon. Not your everyday common diabetes diet (if there even
>>>> *is*
>>>> such an animal).
>>>> My insulin injections are to cover my intake of food.
>>>> For quite some years now I use little insulin each day.
>>>> In total 14-18 units a day.
>>>> I eat about 1800 kcal each day and am very careful.
>>>> My BMI is in the normal range.
>>>>
>>>> M.
>>>
>>> Hi Maya,
>>>
>>> Thank you for asking, instead of getting mad. I am
>>> working on my writing skills. It sounds like you are
>>> perfectly on track, doing exactly what you are suppose to
>>> do. I am delighted that you have yours under control.
>>>
>>> This line of conversation started when someone erroneously
>>> got on my case for saying not to take your drugs. (I never
>>> said that.)
>>>
>>> I was carrying on about a man I know and care about
>>> that does some really insane things and is going to kill
>>> himself. He almost died once already.
>>>
>>> I do not presume for a second that ANYONE on these
>>> groups would do something so insane for even a fraction
>>> of a second, even the ones that argue that sugars are
>>> not carbs.
>>>
>>> What I thought I was accomplishing was "speaking to
>>> the choir". What it turned out as was "criticizing the
>>> choir". Not good. Not my intention at all. I have some
>>> fences to repair. :'(
>>>
>>> -T

>>Hi Todd,
>>Learning is what you are doing, and you are doing just fine.
>>Never stop learning, and you'll be okay.
>>>
>>> There is an herb, which I can not vouch for yet
>>> (I have only just started on it) that is "suppose"
>>> (watch the weasel word) to help the pancreas.
>>> Would you like a reference, or is this all old hat
>>> to you?

>>
>>I wouldn't know, there are so very many herbs.
>>I'm curious enough to want to know which one you mean.
>>
>>M.
>>

>
> You've all been very chatty since I was offline later yesterday and
> most of today. We had gone out of town for my mother being laid to
> rest. Just got home. Will mostly be busy the next few days getting
> the house ready for my brother's homecoming after 7 months in the
> hospital, so may only have a few minutes here and there to read the
> conversations here.
>
> I know Todd may not see this, but I have heard good things about
> bitter melon and diabetes and glucose control, cinnamon too. I have
> not yet tried either. Does anyone here have input on either of these?
>
> Karen


Sorry to hear of your mother but glad that your brother is getting out of
the hospital!

I tried both. Bitter melon in pill form did seem to help sometimes when my
BG was too high. But other times not. Not enough for me to continue taking
it. Cinnamon raised my BG. Angela does take the Cinnsulin from Costco.
Does seem to be helping her. Her A1c is in normal range now.

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On Wed, 23 Oct 2013 21:00:38 -0700, in alt.food.diabetic, "Julie Bove"
> wrote:

>
>"Karen" > wrote in message
>news
>> On Wed, 23 Oct 2013 23:39:56 +0200, in alt.food.diabetic, Maya
>> Zuiderweg <$no_spam#ma_dot_zuiderweg_@_me_dot_com#maps_on$ > wrote:
>>
>>>Todd formuleerde de vraag :
>>>> On 10/23/2013 10:06 AM, Maya Zuiderweg wrote:
>>>>> Hi Todd,
>>>>> I dont know what to make of your post.
>>>>> I eat my own food and have to take care of a chronic pancreatitis and a
>>>>> dolichocolon. Not your everyday common diabetes diet (if there even
>>>>> *is*
>>>>> such an animal).
>>>>> My insulin injections are to cover my intake of food.
>>>>> For quite some years now I use little insulin each day.
>>>>> In total 14-18 units a day.
>>>>> I eat about 1800 kcal each day and am very careful.
>>>>> My BMI is in the normal range.
>>>>>
>>>>> M.
>>>>
>>>> Hi Maya,
>>>>
>>>> Thank you for asking, instead of getting mad. I am
>>>> working on my writing skills. It sounds like you are
>>>> perfectly on track, doing exactly what you are suppose to
>>>> do. I am delighted that you have yours under control.
>>>>
>>>> This line of conversation started when someone erroneously
>>>> got on my case for saying not to take your drugs. (I never
>>>> said that.)
>>>>
>>>> I was carrying on about a man I know and care about
>>>> that does some really insane things and is going to kill
>>>> himself. He almost died once already.
>>>>
>>>> I do not presume for a second that ANYONE on these
>>>> groups would do something so insane for even a fraction
>>>> of a second, even the ones that argue that sugars are
>>>> not carbs.
>>>>
>>>> What I thought I was accomplishing was "speaking to
>>>> the choir". What it turned out as was "criticizing the
>>>> choir". Not good. Not my intention at all. I have some
>>>> fences to repair. :'(
>>>>
>>>> -T
>>>Hi Todd,
>>>Learning is what you are doing, and you are doing just fine.
>>>Never stop learning, and you'll be okay.
>>>>
>>>> There is an herb, which I can not vouch for yet
>>>> (I have only just started on it) that is "suppose"
>>>> (watch the weasel word) to help the pancreas.
>>>> Would you like a reference, or is this all old hat
>>>> to you?
>>>
>>>I wouldn't know, there are so very many herbs.
>>>I'm curious enough to want to know which one you mean.
>>>
>>>M.
>>>

>>
>> You've all been very chatty since I was offline later yesterday and
>> most of today. We had gone out of town for my mother being laid to
>> rest. Just got home. Will mostly be busy the next few days getting
>> the house ready for my brother's homecoming after 7 months in the
>> hospital, so may only have a few minutes here and there to read the
>> conversations here.
>>
>> I know Todd may not see this, but I have heard good things about
>> bitter melon and diabetes and glucose control, cinnamon too. I have
>> not yet tried either. Does anyone here have input on either of these?
>>
>> Karen

>
>Sorry to hear of your mother but glad that your brother is getting out of
>the hospital!
>
>I tried both. Bitter melon in pill form did seem to help sometimes when my
>BG was too high. But other times not. Not enough for me to continue taking
>it. Cinnamon raised my BG. Angela does take the Cinnsulin from Costco.
>Does seem to be helping her. Her A1c is in normal range now.


Thanks Julie. We are happy my brother is coming home finally. It's
been a long, difficult 7 months, so I'm happy about that. Mom, on
the other hand had suffered for a long time (2 1/2 years) so as hard
as it is, it's a release from pain for her. She will always live in
my heart though. We were very close. You know how those
mother-daughter bonds can be.

I may give the bitter melon a try. I already use a lot of cinnamon.
Karen


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"Karen" > wrote in message
news
> On Wed, 23 Oct 2013 23:39:56 +0200, in alt.food.diabetic, Maya
> Zuiderweg <$no_spam#ma_dot_zuiderweg_@_me_dot_com#maps_on$ > wrote:
>
>>Todd formuleerde de vraag :
>>> On 10/23/2013 10:06 AM, Maya Zuiderweg wrote:
>>>> Hi Todd,
>>>> I dont know what to make of your post.
>>>> I eat my own food and have to take care of a chronic pancreatitis and a
>>>> dolichocolon. Not your everyday common diabetes diet (if there even
>>>> *is*
>>>> such an animal).
>>>> My insulin injections are to cover my intake of food.
>>>> For quite some years now I use little insulin each day.
>>>> In total 14-18 units a day.
>>>> I eat about 1800 kcal each day and am very careful.
>>>> My BMI is in the normal range.
>>>>
>>>> M.
>>>
>>> Hi Maya,
>>>
>>> Thank you for asking, instead of getting mad. I am
>>> working on my writing skills. It sounds like you are
>>> perfectly on track, doing exactly what you are suppose to
>>> do. I am delighted that you have yours under control.
>>>
>>> This line of conversation started when someone erroneously
>>> got on my case for saying not to take your drugs. (I never
>>> said that.)
>>>
>>> I was carrying on about a man I know and care about
>>> that does some really insane things and is going to kill
>>> himself. He almost died once already.
>>>
>>> I do not presume for a second that ANYONE on these
>>> groups would do something so insane for even a fraction
>>> of a second, even the ones that argue that sugars are
>>> not carbs.
>>>
>>> What I thought I was accomplishing was "speaking to
>>> the choir". What it turned out as was "criticizing the
>>> choir". Not good. Not my intention at all. I have some
>>> fences to repair. :'(
>>>
>>> -T

>>Hi Todd,
>>Learning is what you are doing, and you are doing just fine.
>>Never stop learning, and you'll be okay.
>>>
>>> There is an herb, which I can not vouch for yet
>>> (I have only just started on it) that is "suppose"
>>> (watch the weasel word) to help the pancreas.
>>> Would you like a reference, or is this all old hat
>>> to you?

>>
>>I wouldn't know, there are so very many herbs.
>>I'm curious enough to want to know which one you mean.
>>
>>M.
>>

>
> You've all been very chatty since I was offline later yesterday and
> most of today. We had gone out of town for my mother being laid to
> rest. Just got home. Will mostly be busy the next few days getting
> the house ready for my brother's homecoming after 7 months in the
> hospital, so may only have a few minutes here and there to read the
> conversations here.


I'm sorry to hear about your mother, it's never easy to lose a parent. Take
care of yourself and happy for your brother to be coming home.

Cheri

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On Wed, 23 Oct 2013 21:59:51 -0700, in alt.food.diabetic, "Cheri"
> wrote:

>"Karen" > wrote in message
>news
>> On Wed, 23 Oct 2013 23:39:56 +0200, in alt.food.diabetic, Maya
>> Zuiderweg <$no_spam#ma_dot_zuiderweg_@_me_dot_com#maps_on$ > wrote:
>>
>>>Todd formuleerde de vraag :
>>>> On 10/23/2013 10:06 AM, Maya Zuiderweg wrote:
>>>>> Hi Todd,
>>>>> I dont know what to make of your post.
>>>>> I eat my own food and have to take care of a chronic pancreatitis and a
>>>>> dolichocolon. Not your everyday common diabetes diet (if there even
>>>>> *is*
>>>>> such an animal).
>>>>> My insulin injections are to cover my intake of food.
>>>>> For quite some years now I use little insulin each day.
>>>>> In total 14-18 units a day.
>>>>> I eat about 1800 kcal each day and am very careful.
>>>>> My BMI is in the normal range.
>>>>>
>>>>> M.
>>>>
>>>> Hi Maya,
>>>>
>>>> Thank you for asking, instead of getting mad. I am
>>>> working on my writing skills. It sounds like you are
>>>> perfectly on track, doing exactly what you are suppose to
>>>> do. I am delighted that you have yours under control.
>>>>
>>>> This line of conversation started when someone erroneously
>>>> got on my case for saying not to take your drugs. (I never
>>>> said that.)
>>>>
>>>> I was carrying on about a man I know and care about
>>>> that does some really insane things and is going to kill
>>>> himself. He almost died once already.
>>>>
>>>> I do not presume for a second that ANYONE on these
>>>> groups would do something so insane for even a fraction
>>>> of a second, even the ones that argue that sugars are
>>>> not carbs.
>>>>
>>>> What I thought I was accomplishing was "speaking to
>>>> the choir". What it turned out as was "criticizing the
>>>> choir". Not good. Not my intention at all. I have some
>>>> fences to repair. :'(
>>>>
>>>> -T
>>>Hi Todd,
>>>Learning is what you are doing, and you are doing just fine.
>>>Never stop learning, and you'll be okay.
>>>>
>>>> There is an herb, which I can not vouch for yet
>>>> (I have only just started on it) that is "suppose"
>>>> (watch the weasel word) to help the pancreas.
>>>> Would you like a reference, or is this all old hat
>>>> to you?
>>>
>>>I wouldn't know, there are so very many herbs.
>>>I'm curious enough to want to know which one you mean.
>>>
>>>M.
>>>

>>
>> You've all been very chatty since I was offline later yesterday and
>> most of today. We had gone out of town for my mother being laid to
>> rest. Just got home. Will mostly be busy the next few days getting
>> the house ready for my brother's homecoming after 7 months in the
>> hospital, so may only have a few minutes here and there to read the
>> conversations here.

>
>I'm sorry to hear about your mother, it's never easy to lose a parent. Take
>care of yourself and happy for your brother to be coming home.
>
>Cheri


Thank you Cheri. We are happy for my brother, and weird as it sounds,
Mom too in a way. She suffered for a long time, and now she isn't. I
do think she is in a better place. We had a long time to prepare for
this inevitability. Sad as it is, we do all go at some point. It was
very difficult to see her suffer. We love her and mourn the loss, and
will always miss her, but didn't want her to suffer.
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On 10/23/2013 6:34 AM, W. Baker wrote:
> In alt.support.diabetes Todd > wrote:
> : >>
> : >> : Too much insulin messed you up pretty good too, even if
> : >> : you are offsetting with vast quantities of carbs, which
> : >> : also mess you up in other way besides T2.
> : >>
> : >> : An article on insulin:
> : >>
> : >> :
> : >> https://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2013...olution_01.htm
> : >>
> : >> : Too much insulin, the fat storage hormone, also drives
> : >> : more inflammation and oxidative stress, and produces a
> : >> : myriad of downstream effects including high blood pressure,
> : >> : high cholesterol, low HDL, high triglycerides, poor sex
> : >> : drive, infertility, thickening of the blood, and increased
> : >> : risk of cancer, Alzheimer?s, and depression.
> : >>
> : >> : Probably why T1 shouldn't over do the insulin too.
> : >>
> : >> : -T
> : >>
> : >> No one in this group or on the food group advocates using extra
> : >> insulin or
> : >> meds to cover up eating extra carbs. first of all it makes the
> : >> underlying
> : >> situation worse as it puts weight on a person which means fewer carbs,
> : >> etc
> : >> to be able to control ones diabetes and bgs. Second, we are not here to
> : >> find "tricks" to work around controlingour diabtes by using exta meds or
> : >> any other such things. If we believe dthat WE WOULD NoyT BE SEEKING WHAT
> : >> WE ARE HERE, a successful method of conrtoling our diabetes withotu doing
> : >> injury to ourselves and we let others know our methods. We don't really
> : >> think that there is only oneway to live with diabetes, but WE DO NOT
> : >> ADVOCATE USE OF DRugs or isulinn TO ALLOW OURSELVES TO "CHEAT"..Some may
> : >> eat more carbs, bu exercise more to keep inbalance adn some may , like
> : >> you, eat very low carb or medium carb , etc. We use what works for us
> : >> and
> : >> what we can do reletively happily. Please, don't think that this group
> : >> advocates or admires diabetic cheaters who only really fool themselves.
> : >> They wuld not lst on this group.
> : >>
> : >> Wendy
> : >
> : > Wendy, please forgive me. I never meant to imply anyone of this group
> : > would do something so ferociously irresponsible. That I know
> : > of others not on this group that do, horrifies me. That was all I
> : > was getting at. I though I as talking to like minded T2's that
> : > would share my horror as well. I obviously did not succeed very
> : > well at it.
> : >
> : > -T
>
> : Hi Wendy,
> : Can you point me to which sentence(s) gave you the
> : impression I was implying those on the group were
> : doing suchlike? It would help me improve my writing.
>
> : -T
>
>
> I left a few paragraphs. You spend far too much time preaching to the
> converted


Something only your buddy Susan, the anonymous low carb troll, should be
allowed to do without being criticized - right?



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On 10/23/2013 2:39 PM, Maya Zuiderweg wrote:
> Todd formuleerde de vraag :
>> On 10/23/2013 10:06 AM, Maya Zuiderweg wrote:
>>> Hi Todd,
>>> I dont know what to make of your post.
>>> I eat my own food and have to take care of a chronic pancreatitis and a
>>> dolichocolon. Not your everyday common diabetes diet (if there even *is*
>>> such an animal).
>>> My insulin injections are to cover my intake of food.
>>> For quite some years now I use little insulin each day.
>>> In total 14-18 units a day.
>>> I eat about 1800 kcal each day and am very careful.
>>> My BMI is in the normal range.
>>>
>>> M.

>>
>> Hi Maya,
>>
>> Thank you for asking, instead of getting mad. I am
>> working on my writing skills. It sounds like you are
>> perfectly on track, doing exactly what you are suppose to
>> do. I am delighted that you have yours under control.
>>
>> This line of conversation started when someone erroneously
>> got on my case for saying not to take your drugs. (I never
>> said that.)
>>
>> I was carrying on about a man I know and care about
>> that does some really insane things and is going to kill
>> himself. He almost died once already.
>>
>> I do not presume for a second that ANYONE on these
>> groups would do something so insane for even a fraction
>> of a second, even the ones that argue that sugars are
>> not carbs.
>>
>> What I thought I was accomplishing was "speaking to
>> the choir". What it turned out as was "criticizing the
>> choir". Not good. Not my intention at all. I have some
>> fences to repair. :'(
>>
>> -T

> Hi Todd,
> Learning is what you are doing, and you are doing just fine.
> Never stop learning, and you'll be okay.


Life would be so much easier to just do what *dr* Susan TELLS YOU TO DO.
And you should never doubt her, but in the unlikely event you do: ask
Cheri to confirm the Gospel according to *dr* Susan.

>>
>> There is an herb, which I can not vouch for yet
>> (I have only just started on it) that is "suppose"
>> (watch the weasel word) to help the pancreas.
>> Would you like a reference, or is this all old hat
>> to you?

>
> I wouldn't know, there are so very many herbs.
> I'm curious enough to want to know which one you mean.
>
> M.
>
>


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"Karen" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 23 Oct 2013 21:59:51 -0700, in alt.food.diabetic, "Cheri"
> > wrote:
>
>>"Karen" > wrote in message
>>news
>>> On Wed, 23 Oct 2013 23:39:56 +0200, in alt.food.diabetic, Maya
>>> Zuiderweg <$no_spam#ma_dot_zuiderweg_@_me_dot_com#maps_on$ > wrote:
>>>
>>>>Todd formuleerde de vraag :
>>>>> On 10/23/2013 10:06 AM, Maya Zuiderweg wrote:
>>>>>> Hi Todd,
>>>>>> I dont know what to make of your post.
>>>>>> I eat my own food and have to take care of a chronic pancreatitis and
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> dolichocolon. Not your everyday common diabetes diet (if there even
>>>>>> *is*
>>>>>> such an animal).
>>>>>> My insulin injections are to cover my intake of food.
>>>>>> For quite some years now I use little insulin each day.
>>>>>> In total 14-18 units a day.
>>>>>> I eat about 1800 kcal each day and am very careful.
>>>>>> My BMI is in the normal range.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> M.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Maya,
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you for asking, instead of getting mad. I am
>>>>> working on my writing skills. It sounds like you are
>>>>> perfectly on track, doing exactly what you are suppose to
>>>>> do. I am delighted that you have yours under control.
>>>>>
>>>>> This line of conversation started when someone erroneously
>>>>> got on my case for saying not to take your drugs. (I never
>>>>> said that.)
>>>>>
>>>>> I was carrying on about a man I know and care about
>>>>> that does some really insane things and is going to kill
>>>>> himself. He almost died once already.
>>>>>
>>>>> I do not presume for a second that ANYONE on these
>>>>> groups would do something so insane for even a fraction
>>>>> of a second, even the ones that argue that sugars are
>>>>> not carbs.
>>>>>
>>>>> What I thought I was accomplishing was "speaking to
>>>>> the choir". What it turned out as was "criticizing the
>>>>> choir". Not good. Not my intention at all. I have some
>>>>> fences to repair. :'(
>>>>>
>>>>> -T
>>>>Hi Todd,
>>>>Learning is what you are doing, and you are doing just fine.
>>>>Never stop learning, and you'll be okay.
>>>>>
>>>>> There is an herb, which I can not vouch for yet
>>>>> (I have only just started on it) that is "suppose"
>>>>> (watch the weasel word) to help the pancreas.
>>>>> Would you like a reference, or is this all old hat
>>>>> to you?
>>>>
>>>>I wouldn't know, there are so very many herbs.
>>>>I'm curious enough to want to know which one you mean.
>>>>
>>>>M.
>>>>
>>>
>>> You've all been very chatty since I was offline later yesterday and
>>> most of today. We had gone out of town for my mother being laid to
>>> rest. Just got home. Will mostly be busy the next few days getting
>>> the house ready for my brother's homecoming after 7 months in the
>>> hospital, so may only have a few minutes here and there to read the
>>> conversations here.

>>
>>I'm sorry to hear about your mother, it's never easy to lose a parent.
>>Take
>>care of yourself and happy for your brother to be coming home.
>>
>>Cheri

>
> Thank you Cheri. We are happy for my brother, and weird as it sounds,
> Mom too in a way. She suffered for a long time, and now she isn't. I
> do think she is in a better place. We had a long time to prepare for
> this inevitability. Sad as it is, we do all go at some point. It was
> very difficult to see her suffer. We love her and mourn the loss, and
> will always miss her, but didn't want her to suffer.



I totally understand. I still miss my mom every day and its been 33 years,
but so glad that the suffering didn't go on as you say. Take care.

Cheri

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On Thu, 24 Oct 2013 07:16:25 -0700, in alt.food.diabetic, "Cheri"
> wrote:

>"Karen" > wrote in message
.. .
>> On Wed, 23 Oct 2013 21:59:51 -0700, in alt.food.diabetic, "Cheri"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>"Karen" > wrote in message
>>>news >>>> On Wed, 23 Oct 2013 23:39:56 +0200, in alt.food.diabetic, Maya
>>>> Zuiderweg <$no_spam#ma_dot_zuiderweg_@_me_dot_com#maps_on$ > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Todd formuleerde de vraag :
>>>>>> On 10/23/2013 10:06 AM, Maya Zuiderweg wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi Todd,
>>>>>>> I dont know what to make of your post.
>>>>>>> I eat my own food and have to take care of a chronic pancreatitis and
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> dolichocolon. Not your everyday common diabetes diet (if there even
>>>>>>> *is*
>>>>>>> such an animal).
>>>>>>> My insulin injections are to cover my intake of food.
>>>>>>> For quite some years now I use little insulin each day.
>>>>>>> In total 14-18 units a day.
>>>>>>> I eat about 1800 kcal each day and am very careful.
>>>>>>> My BMI is in the normal range.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> M.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Maya,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you for asking, instead of getting mad. I am
>>>>>> working on my writing skills. It sounds like you are
>>>>>> perfectly on track, doing exactly what you are suppose to
>>>>>> do. I am delighted that you have yours under control.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This line of conversation started when someone erroneously
>>>>>> got on my case for saying not to take your drugs. (I never
>>>>>> said that.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I was carrying on about a man I know and care about
>>>>>> that does some really insane things and is going to kill
>>>>>> himself. He almost died once already.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I do not presume for a second that ANYONE on these
>>>>>> groups would do something so insane for even a fraction
>>>>>> of a second, even the ones that argue that sugars are
>>>>>> not carbs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What I thought I was accomplishing was "speaking to
>>>>>> the choir". What it turned out as was "criticizing the
>>>>>> choir". Not good. Not my intention at all. I have some
>>>>>> fences to repair. :'(
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -T
>>>>>Hi Todd,
>>>>>Learning is what you are doing, and you are doing just fine.
>>>>>Never stop learning, and you'll be okay.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is an herb, which I can not vouch for yet
>>>>>> (I have only just started on it) that is "suppose"
>>>>>> (watch the weasel word) to help the pancreas.
>>>>>> Would you like a reference, or is this all old hat
>>>>>> to you?
>>>>>
>>>>>I wouldn't know, there are so very many herbs.
>>>>>I'm curious enough to want to know which one you mean.
>>>>>
>>>>>M.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You've all been very chatty since I was offline later yesterday and
>>>> most of today. We had gone out of town for my mother being laid to
>>>> rest. Just got home. Will mostly be busy the next few days getting
>>>> the house ready for my brother's homecoming after 7 months in the
>>>> hospital, so may only have a few minutes here and there to read the
>>>> conversations here.
>>>
>>>I'm sorry to hear about your mother, it's never easy to lose a parent.
>>>Take
>>>care of yourself and happy for your brother to be coming home.
>>>
>>>Cheri

>>
>> Thank you Cheri. We are happy for my brother, and weird as it sounds,
>> Mom too in a way. She suffered for a long time, and now she isn't. I
>> do think she is in a better place. We had a long time to prepare for
>> this inevitability. Sad as it is, we do all go at some point. It was
>> very difficult to see her suffer. We love her and mourn the loss, and
>> will always miss her, but didn't want her to suffer.

>
>
>I totally understand. I still miss my mom every day and its been 33 years,
>but so glad that the suffering didn't go on as you say. Take care.
>
>Cheri


Thank you.
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On Tue, 22 Oct 2013 21:03:05 -0700, "Julie Bove"
> wrote:

>
>"Todd" > wrote in message
...
>
>> Wendy, please forgive me. I never meant to imply anyone of this group
>> would do something so ferociously irresponsible. That I know
>> of others not on this group that do, horrifies me. That was all I
>> was getting at. I though I as talking to like minded T2's that
>> would share my horror as well. I obviously did not succeed very
>> well at it.

>
>Why should anyone be horrified at what another person does? Did the man
>beat someone? Kill someone? No. He didn't even break the law.
>
>You only know what he told you. And he might not have even told you all of
>it. You don't know that he was irresponsible. You don't know what he was
>advised to do.
>
>If I were this man, I would for sure want *you* out of my life!



Then why are you replying to him?

You are insuring he is in your life.


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On 10/23/2013 02:39 PM, Maya Zuiderweg wrote:
> Todd formuleerde de vraag :


>> There is an herb, which I can not vouch for yet
>> (I have only just started on it) that is "suppose"
>> (watch the weasel word) to help the pancreas.
>> Would you like a reference, or is this all old hat
>> to you?

>
> I wouldn't know, there are so very many herbs.
> I'm curious enough to want to know which one you mean.
>
> M.


Hi Maya,

As this is not artichoke related, I am going to answer
you in a new thread called "Dr. Christopher on healing
the Pancreas"

-T


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