Diabetic (alt.food.diabetic) This group is for the discussion of controlled-portion eating plans for the dietary management of diabetes.

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Default What cereal to eat for Breakfast?

On Sun, 06 Oct 2013 13:45:02 -0700
Todd > wrote:

> On 10/06/2013 04:10 AM, Trawley Trash wrote:
> > On Sat, 05 Oct 2013 22:14:12 -0700
> > Todd > wrote:
> >
> >> Here is an article to consider on why grains are
> >> unhealthy from Mr. Paleo himself, Mark Sisson who
> >> has been a diabetic since he was a kid:
> >>
> >> http://www.marksdailyapple.com/why-g...are-unhealthy/
> >>
> >> By the way, for those that argue about what is and what isn't
> >> Paloe, I consider whatever we ate before beer to be Paleo.

> >
> > Yes, but what did we eat before beer? Was it fruit or fish?
> >

>
> Hi Trawley,
>
> There was a time before beer? TELL ME IT WASN"T SO! (This
> joke from a guy who doesn't drink.)
>
> Next you will tell me there was a time before
> g - a - r - l - i - c! Nooooooooooo :-)
>
> We ate anything we could get our hands on. And the fruit
> was not deliberately hybridized for high carb. Very unnatural
> in nature.


I was thinking of shore-based evolution where we left the jungles
behind early. Humans followed shorelines, and probably
ate coconut, roots, and fish: not fruit. For a long time there
was food in abundance. Chimpanzees dig for roots, but they don't
like water. When water adapted humans came, it would be only natural
to dig down where that bubble comes up through wet sand. Suddenly
humans had a new food source with no natural competitors. A diet
high in protein and fat. Huge shell mounds remain at some of the
busy migration routes. No doubt there are older ones buried
beneath the waves.




--
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"Trawley Trash" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 6 Oct 2013 12:26:37 -0700
> "Cheri" > wrote:
>
>> What I mean to Todd is my dh's immediate family are pretty long
>> lived, into late 80's & 90's . Not one of them ever had diabetes.
>> They all ate oatmeal, bread, pasta etc., but they didn't/don't overdo
>> it. Phil eats a fair amount of carbs but stays fairly slim.

>
> How are they on sugar?


Sugar is carbs, they all eat cakes, pies, candy etc.

Cheri

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"Todd" > wrote in message
...

> Hi Karen,
>
> Susan said it very well. You eat meat and fat. Plants too.
> But not the ones that are not artificially hybridized for
> high carbs. As Susan said, not the starchy ones.


I don't know of any plants that are hybridized for high carbs. In fact some
potatoes are hybridized for lower carbs.
>
> My regimen is 15 max per meal and 60 max per day. And I don't
> get to eat extra carbs at the end of the day because I
> was under on previous meals.


Why would anyone get to eat extra carbs at the end of the day?
>
> Since I was inducted into the pin cushion club a year ago,
> I have forced myself to learn how to cook. My precious
> wife will only eat what I eat to make sure I am never
> tempted to go off the regimen (it is only a "diet" in
> the broad definition of the word). I have more variety,
> better food, I am never hungry (unless it is on purpose),
> I have more love in my life, and have met a lot
> of new friends. T2 is only a curse if you let it be.


Apparently your wife does not cook?

We have three entirely different diets in this house. There is just no
reason why one person should have to eat another person's diet. And who
said that diabetes is a curse?

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"Todd" > wrote in message
...
> On 10/06/2013 12:26 PM, Cheri wrote:
>> What I mean to Todd is my dh's immediate family are pretty long lived,
>> into late 80's & 90's . Not one of them ever had diabetes. They all ate
>> oatmeal, bread, pasta etc., but they didn't/don't overdo it. Phil eats a
>> fair amount of carbs but stays fairly slim.

>
> Hi Cheri,
>
> We are all somewhat different genetically. I do believe
> the number is one in six of us will eventually get T2.
> (Just what I remember off the top of my head, don't quote me
> as a source on this.)
>
> Though I do wonder how safe it is for T0's, who carb out,
> and have huge swings.
>
> My point is that we should eat what we were designed to
> eat, not things that are unnatural in nature. This high
> carb stuff is only there because "we humans is cleaver".
> Too cleaver for our own good.


Cleaver? What is that supposed to mean? A cleaver is sort of like a knife!
Has nothing to do with humans except that we use them to cut meat and
things.

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On Sun, 6 Oct 2013 21:58:55 +0000 (UTC)
"W. Baker" > wrote:

> Unless you have specific food allergies etc, then no food actuall is
> poison.


Everyone has food allergies, whether they know it or not. Most of
them show up as long-term chronic conditions (like diabetes) that
doctors cannot treat. Instead they prescribe symptomatic relief
like pain killers or insulin that do nothing for the underlying
condition.

--
I'm Trawley Trash, and you haven't heard the last of me yet.



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"Todd" > wrote in message
...
> On 10/06/2013 12:26 PM, Cheri wrote:
>> What I mean to Todd is my dh's immediate family are pretty long lived,
>> into late 80's & 90's . Not one of them ever had diabetes. They all ate
>> oatmeal, bread, pasta etc., but they didn't/don't overdo it. Phil eats a
>> fair amount of carbs but stays fairly slim.

>
> Hi Cheri,
>
> We are all somewhat different genetically. I do believe
> the number is one in six of us will eventually get T2.
> (Just what I remember off the top of my head, don't quote me
> as a source on this.)
>
> Though I do wonder how safe it is for T0's, who carb out,
> and have huge swings.
>
> My point is that we should eat what we were designed to
> eat, not things that are unnatural in nature. This high
> carb stuff is only there because "we humans is cleaver".
> Too cleaver for our own good.
>
> -T


My point is/was, you shouldn't make sweeping statements like if you eat
Trix, Captain Crunch, etc., etc., you will catch diabetes, and there is no
"we" should/shouldn't eat this or that, there is only what *I* eat that
works for *me*, after getting good iformantion to go on and trial and error.
EOD

Cheri

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"Cheri" > wrote in message
...
> "Todd" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On 10/06/2013 12:26 PM, Cheri wrote:
>>> What I mean to Todd is my dh's immediate family are pretty long lived,
>>> into late 80's & 90's . Not one of them ever had diabetes. They all ate
>>> oatmeal, bread, pasta etc., but they didn't/don't overdo it. Phil eats a
>>> fair amount of carbs but stays fairly slim.

>>
>> Hi Cheri,
>>
>> We are all somewhat different genetically. I do believe
>> the number is one in six of us will eventually get T2.
>> (Just what I remember off the top of my head, don't quote me
>> as a source on this.)
>>
>> Though I do wonder how safe it is for T0's, who carb out,
>> and have huge swings.
>>
>> My point is that we should eat what we were designed to
>> eat, not things that are unnatural in nature. This high
>> carb stuff is only there because "we humans is cleaver".
>> Too cleaver for our own good.
>>
>> -T

>
> My point is/was, you shouldn't make sweeping statements like if you eat
> Trix, Captain Crunch, etc., etc., you will catch diabetes, and there is no
> "we" should/shouldn't eat this or that, there is only what *I* eat that
> works for *me*, after getting good iformantion to go on and trial and
> error. EOD
>
> Cheri



Ignore the errors like "that for what" and "iformantion for information."
LOL

Cheri

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On Sun, 6 Oct 2013 20:47:23 -0700
"Cheri" > wrote:

> "Trawley Trash" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Sun, 6 Oct 2013 12:26:37 -0700
> > "Cheri" > wrote:
> >
> >> What I mean to Todd is my dh's immediate family are pretty long
> >> lived, into late 80's & 90's . Not one of them ever had diabetes.
> >> They all ate oatmeal, bread, pasta etc., but they didn't/don't
> >> overdo it. Phil eats a fair amount of carbs but stays fairly slim.

> >
> > How are they on sugar?

>
> Sugar is carbs, they all eat cakes, pies, candy etc.
>
> Cheri


There is a genetic component. But for me, I can and do eat those
3-400 grams of carb. As long as there is almost no fructose
or galactose I am OK.

--
I'm Trawley Trash, and you haven't heard the last of me yet.

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On Sun, 6 Oct 2013 22:38:20 -0700
"Julie Bove" > wrote:

> > To add to Ozgirl's excellent write up, the fiber from grains
> > messes with the lining in your intestines. Here is the
> > article that Mark Sisson references in his critique of fiber
> > from grains:
> >
> > http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0823093156.htm

>
> *sigh* You seriously seem to think that this Mark guy is a God or
> something! Fiber from grains does not mess with the intestines.


It messes with mine. Fructans are fibers contained in grains.
Other fibers are not a problem for me.

--
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On Sun, 6 Oct 2013 18:02:57 -0700
"Julie Bove" > wrote:

> I guess I am rambling off here. I do believe that her diet could
> have brought about the mental issues. Studies have linked certain
> foods (wheat and/or gluten in particular) to various mental
> problems. But they are only a problem for certain people who may
> perhaps be predisposed.


B-vitamin deficiency sound likely from your description of her
diet and behavior. B-vitamin deficiencies cause apparent mental
illness. For niacin it goes dermatitis, diarrhea, dementia, and
then death. The four Ds. Not necessarily in that order.



--
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On Sun, 06 Oct 2013 22:05:06 -0700
Todd > wrote:

> Speaking of hybridized fruit for carbs, mainly sweetness
> as you accurately pointed out, have you looked at the carbs
> in an orange lately? One golf ball sized orange: 11g;
> one normal sized orange: 22g. Yikes!
>
> http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/...-juices/1966/2


Yup. I gave up oranges when I finally got the
message about fructose. I switched to limes sweetened with
dextrose. This still seems to give me a little trouble,
so I have ordered some 99.8% reagent grade glucose (same as
dextrose). I suspect the dextrose from the health food store
is contaminated with fructose.

--
I'm Trawley Trash, and you haven't heard the last of me yet.

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"Trawley Trash" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 6 Oct 2013 21:58:55 +0000 (UTC)
> "W. Baker" > wrote:
>
>> Unless you have specific food allergies etc, then no food actuall is
>> poison.

>
> Everyone has food allergies, whether they know it or not. Most of
> them show up as long-term chronic conditions (like diabetes) that
> doctors cannot treat. Instead they prescribe symptomatic relief
> like pain killers or insulin that do nothing for the underlying
> condition.


No, everyone does not have food allergies. If by allergies you mean IgE
allergies. In fact most people do not. Now there is highly debated
evidence of late that IgG reactions, aka intolerances may in fact be allergy
related. But do most people have those? Probably not. I suspect that most
people can eat what they want. But many people have to avoid at least one
food for some reason. And that reason is most likely not IgE or IgG
related.

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"Trawley Trash" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 6 Oct 2013 22:38:20 -0700
> "Julie Bove" > wrote:
>
>> > To add to Ozgirl's excellent write up, the fiber from grains
>> > messes with the lining in your intestines. Here is the
>> > article that Mark Sisson references in his critique of fiber
>> > from grains:
>> >
>> > http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0823093156.htm

>>
>> *sigh* You seriously seem to think that this Mark guy is a God or
>> something! Fiber from grains does not mess with the intestines.

>
> It messes with mine. Fructans are fibers contained in grains.
> Other fibers are not a problem for me.


But you are not everyone else. If I eat a bite of egg, I'll be spending
several miserable hours on the toilet. If I eat oats, I will itch all over.
I know that I can not eat these things. Doesn't mean that they are bad for
everyone else.

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"Trawley Trash" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 6 Oct 2013 18:02:57 -0700
> "Julie Bove" > wrote:
>
>> I guess I am rambling off here. I do believe that her diet could
>> have brought about the mental issues. Studies have linked certain
>> foods (wheat and/or gluten in particular) to various mental
>> problems. But they are only a problem for certain people who may
>> perhaps be predisposed.

>
> B-vitamin deficiency sound likely from your description of her
> diet and behavior. B-vitamin deficiencies cause apparent mental
> illness. For niacin it goes dermatitis, diarrhea, dementia, and
> then death. The four Ds. Not necessarily in that order.


Could be. Dunno.

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"Todd" > wrote in message
...
> On 10/07/2013 11:00 AM, Trawley Trash wrote:
>> On Sun, 06 Oct 2013 22:05:06 -0700
>> Todd > wrote:
>>
>>> Speaking of hybridized fruit for carbs, mainly sweetness
>>> as you accurately pointed out, have you looked at the carbs
>>> in an orange lately? One golf ball sized orange: 11g;
>>> one normal sized orange: 22g. Yikes!
>>>
>>> http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/...-juices/1966/2


Golf balled orange? Where do you find those? Not that I ever ate oranges.
Yuck.
>>
>> Yup. I gave up oranges when I finally got the
>> message about fructose. I switched to limes sweetened with
>> dextrose. This still seems to give me a little trouble,
>> so I have ordered some 99.8% reagent grade glucose (same as
>> dextrose). I suspect the dextrose from the health food store
>> is contaminated with fructose.
>>

>
>
> Just looked up a "medium apple": 25 grams. Yikes!
> http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/...-juices/1809/2
> Definitely not a free food.


Who said that it was? You do know what a free food is...right? I can eat
apples with no BG problems. I just don't desire an apple or any fruit very
often so rarely ever eat them.

> Just looked up strawberries too: 1 cup, 12 grams.
> http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/...-juices/2064/2
> That could probably be worked with. Maybe a 1/4 cup smashed
> into some butter for a hot topping. The local orgaic farms
> grows them, but they closed for the season. :'(


Well that sounds right nasty! And what would you be topping with that?



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Instead of fast food like pizza, noodles, Can go with cereals at breakfast. Ofcourse, every cereals like green gram, horse gram and fenugreek seeds is good for morning breakfast especially sprouted cereals. It is good in nutrients, calories and also it contains fiber. A good protein and energy giving food and can even survive for the whole day.

Benefits of sprouted cereals:

It helps to loss weight
Controls blood sugar. Helpful for Diabetics

Do you want to know how to make cereals sprout?
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On 10/5/2013 10:34 PM, Cheri wrote:
> "Todd" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On 10/05/2013 02:47 PM, Cheri wrote:
>>> "Todd" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> On 10/05/2013 07:03 AM, David Sharad wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Breakfast is considered as a first meal of the day. Don't skip
>>>>> breakfast
>>>>> it is very important to improve health.There are many different
>>>>> kinds of
>>>>> cereal including cheerios, cocoa puffs, honey bunches of oats, fiber
>>>>> one, lucky charms, cookie crisp, fruity pebbles and fruit loops. These
>>>>> are best cereals to eat for breakfast.
>>>>> 'Tacoma personal trainer' (http://www.isaacbefitlife.com/)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> David!
>>>>
>>>> This is a * Diabetic group *. If you eat this garbage for
>>>> any meal you will be a Diabetic too.
>>>
>>>
>>> That is absolutely untrue. Why would you say something like that?
>>>
>>> Cheri

>>
>> Hi Cheri,
>>
>> That is how I caught Diabetes. I loved my pasta (like eating
>> a bag of sugar). I burned myself out -- two allopaths confirmed
>> that suspicion. Humans never, and I mean never, ate grains
>> or so many carbs before they discovered beer.

>
> You don't "catch" diabetes.
>
> Cheri


How deep thou art
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On 10/6/2013 7:41 AM, Cheri wrote:
> "Todd" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On 10/05/2013 10:43 PM, Cheri wrote:
>>> "Todd" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>
>>>> Good Advice, I am watching my meter like a hawk. And several
>>>> times a day too. So far, I am a fraction better than on
>>>> Metformin. And the side effects are going away.
>>>> I am stronger and a lot happier. (Metformin causes
>>>> depression, among other things.)
>>>>
>>>> By the way, I am drug free, but not medicine free.
>>>> I use a lot of tradition medicine (herbs, etc.).
>>>> Anyone let me know if they want to know the
>>>> traditional medicines I use.
>>>>
>>>> -T
>>>
>>> You're starting to sound a tad bit like Iron Justice...a well known
>>> fanatic in the groups.
>>>
>>> Cheri

>>
>> Hi Cheri,
>>
>> How so? Because I use Traditional Medicine?
>> I can reference randomized double blind studies,
>> in other words, the scientific method, on the stuff
>> I use. Is that "fanatical"?
>>
>> Am I being otherwise ill mannered or offensive
>> in any way?
>>
>> -T

>
> Anybody can cite studies, but when you make sweeping (the sky is
> falling) statements that really aren't true for a whole lot of people
> who eat grains etc., it starts to sound fanatical.


Then how come low carb Susan never sounds fanatical _to you_?

You don't have to be
> "ill mannered or offensive" to be perceived as a bit kooky either. :-)
>


You are both: "ill mannered or offensive" *and* kooky.
Of course your offensive ill manners only extend to those you don't like...
Be

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"Todd" > wrote in message
...
> On 10/08/2013 05:54 AM, Don Roberto wrote:
>>> Yes. And since there is a zero biological requirement for dietary
>>> carbohydrate in human biology,

>>
>> *Dr* Susan at her best...

>
> Don,
>
> She is correct. Various aboriginal and the Inuits
> eat no fruit or veg's. As my GP says "there is no
> scientific proof whatsoever that the consumption
> of fat is harmful to humans."
>
> The Inuits did not start getting "White Man's"
> diseases until the "convenience stores" moved in.
>
> Give her a break, she doesn't like to see people
> hurt. Her heart is in the right place.
>
> And the guy I know with the prosthetic legs,
> the HUGE heart attack, the ruined kidneys, the
> oxygen tank, still to this day tells me you
> get to occasionally cheat on the diet. As I
> said, give Susan a break.
>
> -T


Nonsense! You can't speak for Susan or anyone else here. Some of us here
have had enough nasty barbs hurled at us from here that we wouldn't believe
that she doesn't want to see people hurt. Seeing as how she herself hurts
people with her words.

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"Julie Bove" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Todd" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On 10/08/2013 05:54 AM, Don Roberto wrote:
>>>> Yes. And since there is a zero biological requirement for dietary
>>>> carbohydrate in human biology,
>>>
>>> *Dr* Susan at her best...

>>
>> Don,
>>
>> She is correct. Various aboriginal and the Inuits
>> eat no fruit or veg's. As my GP says "there is no
>> scientific proof whatsoever that the consumption
>> of fat is harmful to humans."
>>
>> The Inuits did not start getting "White Man's"
>> diseases until the "convenience stores" moved in.
>>
>> Give her a break, she doesn't like to see people
>> hurt. Her heart is in the right place.
>>
>> And the guy I know with the prosthetic legs,
>> the HUGE heart attack, the ruined kidneys, the
>> oxygen tank, still to this day tells me you
>> get to occasionally cheat on the diet. As I
>> said, give Susan a break.
>>
>> -T

>
> Nonsense! You can't speak for Susan or anyone else here. Some of us here
> have had enough nasty barbs hurled at us from here that we wouldn't
> believe that she doesn't want to see people hurt. Seeing as how she
> herself hurts people with her words.
>

Everyone has had their bad days. Although some people do it more than
others, there are few here who haven't lashed out at someone sometime.

Henry



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On Mon, 7 Oct 2013 14:58:14 -0700
"Julie Bove" > wrote:

>
> "Trawley Trash" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Sun, 6 Oct 2013 21:58:55 +0000 (UTC)
> > "W. Baker" > wrote:
> >
> >> Unless you have specific food allergies etc, then no food actuall
> >> is poison.

> >
> > Everyone has food allergies, whether they know it or not. Most of
> > them show up as long-term chronic conditions (like diabetes) that
> > doctors cannot treat. Instead they prescribe symptomatic relief
> > like pain killers or insulin that do nothing for the underlying
> > condition.

>
> No, everyone does not have food allergies. If by allergies you mean
> IgE allergies. In fact most people do not. Now there is highly
> debated evidence of late that IgG reactions, aka intolerances may in
> fact be allergy related. But do most people have those? Probably
> not. I suspect that most people can eat what they want. But many
> people have to avoid at least one food for some reason. And that
> reason is most likely not IgE or IgG related.


Yes, I do mean IgG allergies along with IgE allergies. There are
others too like IgA and IgM. The Ig stand for "immune globulin."
If it is an undesired immune response, then it is an allergy.

The reason IgG allergies are hotly debated is that the IgG blood tests
show that everyone has allergies. Most doctors claim these are "false
positives," because there are no symptoms. The problem is they don't
recognize that high BG can be one of the symptoms.

I back in school studying biochemistry, because doctors
have been no help at all. I won't be posting here as much.

--
I'm Trawley Trash, and you haven't heard the last of me yet.

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On Mon, 7 Oct 2013 15:01:05 -0700
"Julie Bove" > wrote:

> >> *sigh* You seriously seem to think that this Mark guy is a God or
> >> something! Fiber from grains does not mess with the intestines.

> >
> > It messes with mine. Fructans are fibers contained in grains.
> > Other fibers are not a problem for me.

>
> But you are not everyone else. If I eat a bite of egg, I'll be
> spending several miserable hours on the toilet.


If I eat eggs regularly my BG climbs through the roof. No other
symptoms of allergy other than a positive on the IgG allergy test.

> If I eat oats, I
> will itch all over. I know that I can not eat these things. Doesn't
> mean that they are bad for everyone else.


I never said they were. OTOH I am not unique either. I have
met people with similar problems.

--
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On Mon, 07 Oct 2013 19:11:20 -0700
Todd > wrote:

> Just looked up a "medium apple": 25 grams. Yikes!
> http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/...-juices/1809/2
> Definitely not a free food.
>
> Just looked up strawberries too: 1 cup, 12 grams.
> http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/...-juices/2064/2
> That could probably be worked with. Maybe a 1/4 cup smashed
> into some butter for a hot topping. The local orgaic farms
> grows them, but they closed for the season. :'(


You can ferment fruit juice and optionally evaporate the alcohol.

Also cooking will probably help.

--
I'm Trawley Trash, and you haven't heard the last of me yet.

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On 10/9/2013 11:24 AM, Todd wrote:
> On 10/08/2013 05:54 AM, Don Roberto wrote:
>>> Yes. And since there is a zero biological requirement for dietary
>>> carbohydrate in human biology,

>>
>> *Dr* Susan at her best...

>
> Don,
>
> She is correct. Various aboriginal and the Inuits
> eat no fruit or veg's. As my GP says "there is no
> scientific proof whatsoever that the consumption
> of fat is harmful to humans."
>
> The Inuits did not start getting "White Man's"
> diseases until the "convenience stores" moved in.
>
> Give her a break, she doesn't like to see people
> hurt. Her heart is in the right place.
>



Bull!
Susan seems to be incapable of even considering anything that does not
fit her preconceived notions.
She badmouths and then allegedly killfiles anyone who does not agree
with her.
She then snipes at those she allegedly killfiled from behind her alleged
killfile.

In other words: neither her heart nor her brains are in the right place.

> And the guy I know with the prosthetic legs,
> the HUGE heart attack, the ruined kidneys, the
> oxygen tank, still to this day tells me you
> get to occasionally cheat on the diet. As I
> said, give Susan a break.
>


Nope.
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On 10/10/2013 7:28 PM, Don Roberto wrote:
> On 10/9/2013 11:24 AM, Todd wrote:
>> On 10/08/2013 05:54 AM, Don Roberto wrote:
>>>> Yes. And since there is a zero biological requirement for dietary
>>>> carbohydrate in human biology,
>>>
>>> *Dr* Susan at her best...

>>
>> Don,
>>
>> She is correct. Various aboriginal and the Inuits
>> eat no fruit or veg's. As my GP says "there is no
>> scientific proof whatsoever that the consumption
>> of fat is harmful to humans."
>>
>> The Inuits did not start getting "White Man's"
>> diseases until the "convenience stores" moved in.
>>
>> Give her a break, she doesn't like to see people
>> hurt. Her heart is in the right place.
>>

>
>
> Bull!
> Susan seems to be incapable of even considering anything that does not
> fit her preconceived notions.
> She badmouths and then allegedly killfiles anyone who does not agree
> with her.
> She then snipes at those she allegedly killfiled from behind her alleged
> killfile.
>
> In other words: neither her heart nor her brains are in the right place.
>
>> And the guy I know with the prosthetic legs,
>> the HUGE heart attack, the ruined kidneys, the
>> oxygen tank, still to this day tells me you
>> get to occasionally cheat on the diet. As I
>> said, give Susan a break.
>>

>
> Nope.


When I first came here I gave her the benefit of doubt. Bad mistake.



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On 10/10/2013 5:39 PM, outsider wrote:
> On 10/10/2013 7:28 PM, Don Roberto wrote:
>> On 10/9/2013 11:24 AM, Todd wrote:
>>> On 10/08/2013 05:54 AM, Don Roberto wrote:
>>>>> Yes. And since there is a zero biological requirement for dietary
>>>>> carbohydrate in human biology,
>>>>
>>>> *Dr* Susan at her best...
>>>
>>> Don,
>>>
>>> She is correct. Various aboriginal and the Inuits
>>> eat no fruit or veg's. As my GP says "there is no
>>> scientific proof whatsoever that the consumption
>>> of fat is harmful to humans."
>>>
>>> The Inuits did not start getting "White Man's"
>>> diseases until the "convenience stores" moved in.
>>>
>>> Give her a break, she doesn't like to see people
>>> hurt. Her heart is in the right place.
>>>

>>
>>
>> Bull!
>> Susan seems to be incapable of even considering anything that does not
>> fit her preconceived notions.
>> She badmouths and then allegedly killfiles anyone who does not agree
>> with her.
>> She then snipes at those she allegedly killfiled from behind her alleged
>> killfile.
>>
>> In other words: neither her heart nor her brains are in the right place.
>>
>>> And the guy I know with the prosthetic legs,
>>> the HUGE heart attack, the ruined kidneys, the
>>> oxygen tank, still to this day tells me you
>>> get to occasionally cheat on the diet. As I
>>> said, give Susan a break.
>>>

>>
>> Nope.

>
> When I first came here I gave her the benefit of doubt.



Me too.

Bad mistake.
>


Yep.

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Don Roberto schreef op 11-10-2013 :
> On 10/10/2013 5:39 PM, outsider wrote:
>> On 10/10/2013 7:28 PM, Don Roberto wrote:
>>> On 10/9/2013 11:24 AM, Todd wrote:
>>>> On 10/08/2013 05:54 AM, Don Roberto wrote:
>>>>>> Yes. And since there is a zero biological requirement for dietary
>>>>>> carbohydrate in human biology,
>>>>>
>>>>> *Dr* Susan at her best...
>>>>
>>>> Don,
>>>>
>>>> She is correct. Various aboriginal and the Inuits
>>>> eat no fruit or veg's. As my GP says "there is no
>>>> scientific proof whatsoever that the consumption
>>>> of fat is harmful to humans."
>>>>
>>>> The Inuits did not start getting "White Man's"
>>>> diseases until the "convenience stores" moved in.
>>>>
>>>> Give her a break, she doesn't like to see people
>>>> hurt. Her heart is in the right place.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Bull!
>>> Susan seems to be incapable of even considering anything that does not
>>> fit her preconceived notions.
>>> She badmouths and then allegedly killfiles anyone who does not agree
>>> with her.
>>> She then snipes at those she allegedly killfiled from behind her alleged
>>> killfile.
>>>
>>> In other words: neither her heart nor her brains are in the right place.
>>>
>>>> And the guy I know with the prosthetic legs,
>>>> the HUGE heart attack, the ruined kidneys, the
>>>> oxygen tank, still to this day tells me you
>>>> get to occasionally cheat on the diet. As I
>>>> said, give Susan a break.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Nope.

>>
>> When I first came here I gave her the benefit of doubt.

>
>
> Me too.
>
> Bad mistake.
>>

>
> Yep.


+3,14

M.


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Na rijp beraad schreef Don Roberto :
> On 10/9/2013 11:24 AM, Todd wrote:
>> On 10/08/2013 05:54 AM, Don Roberto wrote:
>>>> Yes. And since there is a zero biological requirement for dietary
>>>> carbohydrate in human biology,
>>>
>>> *Dr* Susan at her best...

>>
>> Don,
>>
>> She is correct. Various aboriginal and the Inuits
>> eat no fruit or veg's. As my GP says "there is no
>> scientific proof whatsoever that the consumption
>> of fat is harmful to humans."
>>
>> The Inuits did not start getting "White Man's"
>> diseases until the "convenience stores" moved in.
>>
>> Give her a break, she doesn't like to see people
>> hurt. Her heart is in the right place.
>>

>
>
> Bull!
> Susan seems to be incapable of even considering anything that does not fit
> her preconceived notions.
> She badmouths and then allegedly killfiles anyone who does not agree with
> her.
> She then snipes at those she allegedly killfiled from behind her alleged
> killfile.


I totally agree with you.
As a newbie I had very bad experiences with Susan.
She kept telling me how to eat with diabetes (low carb), but I have a
different kind of diabetes (chronic pancreatitis).
She had no knowledge at all about this disease but kept telling me what
to do.
With my disease it's of the utmost importance that my diet is based on
carbohydrates. Absolutely NO low carbing for me.
When it became clear that she didnt know diddlysquat, she killfiled me.
That was quite unnerving for a newbie:-(
But since killfiling does not always work (think of a reply to me by
another poster, who she had not killfiled), she kept on sniping - and
even suggesting that I did not even exist. (as if I could not read
that, very hurtful).

>
> In other words: neither her heart nor her brains are in the right place.
>
>> And the guy I know with the prosthetic legs,
>> the HUGE heart attack, the ruined kidneys, the
>> oxygen tank, still to this day tells me you
>> get to occasionally cheat on the diet. As I
>> said, give Susan a break.
>>

>
> Nope.


Please do.
M.


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Maya Zuiderweg had uiteengezet :
> Na rijp beraad schreef Don Roberto :
>> On 10/9/2013 11:24 AM, Todd wrote:
>>> On 10/08/2013 05:54 AM, Don Roberto wrote:
>>>>> Yes. And since there is a zero biological requirement for dietary
>>>>> carbohydrate in human biology,
>>>>
>>>> *Dr* Susan at her best...
>>>
>>> Don,
>>>
>>> She is correct. Various aboriginal and the Inuits
>>> eat no fruit or veg's. As my GP says "there is no
>>> scientific proof whatsoever that the consumption
>>> of fat is harmful to humans."
>>>
>>> The Inuits did not start getting "White Man's"
>>> diseases until the "convenience stores" moved in.
>>>
>>> Give her a break, she doesn't like to see people
>>> hurt. Her heart is in the right place.
>>>

>>
>>
>> Bull!
>> Susan seems to be incapable of even considering anything that does not fit
>> her preconceived notions.
>> She badmouths and then allegedly killfiles anyone who does not agree with
>> her.
>> She then snipes at those she allegedly killfiled from behind her alleged
>> killfile.

>
> I totally agree with you.
> As a newbie I had very bad experiences with Susan.
> She kept telling me how to eat with diabetes (low carb), but I have a
> different kind of diabetes (chronic pancreatitis).
> She had no knowledge at all about this disease but kept telling me what to
> do.
> With my disease it's of the utmost importance that my diet is based on
> carbohydrates. Absolutely NO low carbing for me.
> When it became clear that she didnt know diddlysquat, she killfiled me.
> That was quite unnerving for a newbie:-(
> But since killfiling does not always work (think of a reply to me by another
> poster, who she had not killfiled), she kept on sniping - and even suggesting
> that I did not even exist. (as if I could not read that, very hurtful).
>
>>
>> In other words: neither her heart nor her brains are in the right place.
>>
>>> And the guy I know with the prosthetic legs,
>>> the HUGE heart attack, the ruined kidneys, the
>>> oxygen tank, still to this day tells me you
>>> get to occasionally cheat on the diet. As I
>>> said, give Susan a break.
>>>

>>
>> Nope.

>
> Please do.
> M.


Please go on reacting like you do - was what I meant.
M.


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"Trawley Trash" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 7 Oct 2013 14:58:14 -0700
> "Julie Bove" > wrote:
>
>>
>> "Trawley Trash" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > On Sun, 6 Oct 2013 21:58:55 +0000 (UTC)
>> > "W. Baker" > wrote:
>> >
>> >> Unless you have specific food allergies etc, then no food actuall
>> >> is poison.
>> >
>> > Everyone has food allergies, whether they know it or not. Most of
>> > them show up as long-term chronic conditions (like diabetes) that
>> > doctors cannot treat. Instead they prescribe symptomatic relief
>> > like pain killers or insulin that do nothing for the underlying
>> > condition.

>>
>> No, everyone does not have food allergies. If by allergies you mean
>> IgE allergies. In fact most people do not. Now there is highly
>> debated evidence of late that IgG reactions, aka intolerances may in
>> fact be allergy related. But do most people have those? Probably
>> not. I suspect that most people can eat what they want. But many
>> people have to avoid at least one food for some reason. And that
>> reason is most likely not IgE or IgG related.

>
> Yes, I do mean IgG allergies along with IgE allergies. There are
> others too like IgA and IgM. The Ig stand for "immune globulin."
> If it is an undesired immune response, then it is an allergy.
>
> The reason IgG allergies are hotly debated is that the IgG blood tests
> show that everyone has allergies. Most doctors claim these are "false
> positives," because there are no symptoms. The problem is they don't
> recognize that high BG can be one of the symptoms.
>
> I back in school studying biochemistry, because doctors
> have been no help at all. I won't be posting here as much.


We most assuredly had symptoms. For me, egg gives me extreme diarrhea and
stomach pains. So extreme that I will never touch anything that I think
might have a remote chance of egg in it. Dairy? Diarrhea to a lesser
extent. And if I keep eating it, like I did for most of my life, then I
will also have skin problems and go through Kleenex like you wouldn't
believe. Then eventually I will get ear and sinus infections. Oats give me
an itchy rash. Mint? Makes me sick to my stomach and when used in dental
preparations, tooth sensitivity. I can't remember now what clove does to me
but I did have a reaction to it when I ate some pickles that contained it
the other day. I remember having a reaction, just don't remember what. Not
sure about lovage, thyme of some of the other things. Some, like lamb, I
never ate. And I ate the others so infrequently and in such a small amount.
Plus I was eating combined problems. So that can make it hard to ferret out
the problem.

So while I was having symptoms, I didn't relate them to food for most of my
life. Why? Because I always had these problems from birth. I was just
told, that was the way I was! I assumed that everyone felt like crap all
the time. And I used to wonder when I saw people smiling. Like... How can
they be so happy when there stomach hurts so much?

We only made the connection to milk after my physician told my mom to stop
giving it to me. She used to make us drink it at meals even though I always
hated it and she told me that I had been allergic to it as an infant. My
stomach did get some better and my acne got a lot better? The problem? My
mom was still giving me milk! In the form of cheese and stuff like mashed
potatoes and macaroni and cheese. To her, avoiding milk means that you
don't drink a glass of milk. She never considers (still doesn't to this
day) that milk used as an ingredient could hurt you.

I didn't fully make the connection to the other things until I totally
stopped consuming them. I discovered the egg on my own. At first, I mostly
followed Angela's diet. I didn't avoid wheat in the form of bread or
occasionally crackers, or in something like a gravy at a restaurant. But
for family meals, I made them totally gluten free. But I ate no dairy and
eggs. I didn't get totally better then because I was still consuming some
things that *I* shouldn't have. Like almonds. I didn't get fully better
until I was tested. By that point I had added dairy back in but not eggs.
I have told the story here before about eating the egg salad and having a
violent reaction to it. Thought it was food poisoning but then when I tried
egg again and had the same reaction, that was it for me and eggs.

I then foolishly added dairy back in after a retest showed a problem. And I
should have known. I was having a reaction but didn't want to know about
it. I really wanted to eat that cheese!

Then the last testing showed even more problems. I am considering getting
tested yet again due to sinus issues. Angela and my husband both became
sick with respiratory things. His was like a cold. Hers was just a bad
sore throat with only a little bit of sinus stuff. I thought I had escaped
it but I came down with it after they got better, despite dosing myself with
faux Airborne.

That was over a week ago. My nose is still running a lot. Like it is
allergies. I don't feel really sick and I never got the headache that they
got. I did feel like spending a couple of days in bed. And I had no
appetite. That stuff has resolved but the nose is still running. So now I
don't know if it is something in the air or a food that I am eating. I do
have allergies to mums and try to avoid them but they are everywhere this
time of year.

Anyway... The point I was trying to make is that if you have multiple
problems with foods, and you continue to eat those foods, it can be next to
impossible to tell which foods are the cause. Plus I think your symptoms
can be diluted. But once you've eliminated those foods for a year or two,
and you eat them again, one of two things can happen. Either you'll outgrow
the problem, like I did for a while with dairy, or... Your symptoms will
hit you harder than ever. For me, some things cause a fairly immediate
response, like oats. But others, like egg will cause such a delayed
response that it can be hard to relate the response to the food.



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"Trawley Trash" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 7 Oct 2013 15:01:05 -0700
> "Julie Bove" > wrote:
>
>> >> *sigh* You seriously seem to think that this Mark guy is a God or
>> >> something! Fiber from grains does not mess with the intestines.
>> >
>> > It messes with mine. Fructans are fibers contained in grains.
>> > Other fibers are not a problem for me.

>>
>> But you are not everyone else. If I eat a bite of egg, I'll be
>> spending several miserable hours on the toilet.

>
> If I eat eggs regularly my BG climbs through the roof. No other
> symptoms of allergy other than a positive on the IgG allergy test.


Okay.
>
>> If I eat oats, I
>> will itch all over. I know that I can not eat these things. Doesn't
>> mean that they are bad for everyone else.

>
> I never said they were. OTOH I am not unique either. I have
> met people with similar problems.


Okay.

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"Todd" > wrote in message
...
> On 10/11/2013 07:50 PM, Karen wrote:
>> Just this week I had a doctor tell me when you do not
>> get enough energy from carbs your body starts breaking down muscle and
>> then you spill ketones into the urine.

>
> Hi Karen,
>
> You (or someone else) is paying out the nose for those doctors.
> Of course follow what they say.


If a person has insurance then it might not be that much OOP.
>
> Are you sure that is what the doctor said? If you google
> "Inuit paradox" you will find that the Inuits don't have
> any carbs at all. Carbs are not necessary for humans.
> My GP laughed and said I was correct when I mentioned
> the Inuits. (He was happy I am low carb, rather than constantly
> trying to cheat the regimen. He does not like having to
> amputate legs.)


Are you an Innuit, Todd? I know you won't see this because you had me KFed.
I'm thinking, no because you said you are Jewish and I've never heard of a
Jewish Innuit.

I have been reading a lot of books on diet and nutrition lately and a lot of
a person's diet relates to where they are. There could well be something in
the water or the soil of where the Innuits live that factors into this.

And even though I am not Karen, I am pretty sure that this is what the Dr.
said because countless other people have said this.

Your Dr. might tell you to low carb. But I've only ever heard one Dr. say
that the body does not need carbs. This was not said to me and the person
he said it to was put on the South Beach diet which is not low carb although
all carbs except for beans are restricted in the beginning phase.
>
> Your liver will manufacture whatever glucose you need. And
> you spill keytones into your urine when you fast (you feel
> hungry when this happens). You also blow them out your
> breath. You will smell like fruit punch. It comes from the
> breakdown of your own stored fat. (Keyto sticks are
> really cheap at Wal mart, if you want to monitor yourself.
> They are over by the diabetic test strips.)


And if you're like me and try to low carb, your body will kick out more
glucose to compensate. And you'll wind up with high BG.

> Here is a nice article on keytones:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketone_bodies
> "Ketone bodies are three different water-soluble,
> biochemicals that are produced as by-products when
> fatty acids are broken down in the liver for energy..."


The word is ketones. If you're trying to come across as an expert, you
should at least use your spell check.
>
> I think possibly you heard your doctor wrong. Maybe
> next time you see him, you should ask him about the Inuits
> and where keytones come from. If that is what he really
> said, you may wish to do some research on your own.
> (I would get another doctor, but that is only me.)
> But, I think you heard him wrong: it is a major screw up.


OMG! Just freaking OMG!
>
> And, when I said "learn to cook", I meant as/for a diabetic.
> If your diabetes is such, and we all have our own personalized
> diabetes, that you can eat the modern diet then more
> power to you. All I can say is that if you go back to
> Paleo, you will probably feel better and your diabetics
> will possibly be easier to handle. Perhaps not.


Diabetics cook just like everyone else. And just how many diabetics is she
handling and why?
>
> And if you can eat high carb, this is probably not
> the best place to publish your recipes. There is a
> really nice cooking group for regular folks too (T0's).


Who died and put you in charge of this group? Anyone can post any recipe
they want here. There is nothing off limits to a diabetic as a whole. But
some people find they have issues with certain things. It's all a matter of
portion size. Yes, that portion may be only one bite so for that reason
some people choose not to eat it.
>
> And I only kill file nasty people who like to pick fights.
> So, you are not kill filed. People can disagree with each
> other without being disagreeable. It is actually fun to
> learn from others. Let us start over. Hello, my name is
> Todd. I am a NIDDM (non-insulin-dependent diabetes mellitus
> or non-insulin dependent type 2 diabetic). I am currently
> drug free and hope I never have to go on drugs again.
> I control my T2/NIDDM with diet, natural medicine, and
> fishing (exercise that is fun). I love to cook diabetic/Paleo.


You need to put yourself in the KF then. This is not a Paleo newsgroup.
It's a diabetic newsgroup. And when it comes to diabetes, one size does not
fit all.

> Now your turn. I am Karen ...


You are Karen? I am confused.

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"Ozgirl" > wrote in message
...

>
> Karen, I think you may have mis-heard the doctor. Ketone bodies are formed
> in the liver as a result of fat break-down - the fatty acids are converted
> to ketones in the liver - first and fore-most (after depletion of glucose
> stores). Conversion of muscle protein to ketones is way down the track. If
> you have ever been on a weight loss diet or fasting (or even normal
> overnight fasting) then you have produced ketone bodies. FWIW, even when I
> was doing very low carb at the beginning of my type 2 diagnosis I only
> barely registered ketones on a pee stick. Most times none showed up. Of
> course that doesn't mean I wasn't producing ketones, just that the
> concentration wasn't high enough to register. Just like you won't see
> glucose in your urine until your bg is quite high. The only time you would
> start to lose muscle is when the body runs out of fuel sources, as in
> prolonged starvation (as in little to no food - faster obviously if one
> can't get water either), and protein in muscle becomes the food source.
> The body is designed in a way to prevent muscle loss, we need muscles to
> move. Low carbers are not starving and I seriously doubt there are any low
> carbers out there that lower their protein levels drastically. Eating
> plenty of protein ensures that the muscles are maintained properly. There
> are protective metabolic processes in the body that preserve the body for
> as long as possible, using muscle protein as a very last resort. Once
> muscle catabolism starts you could probably safely say you are close to
> death. Slim people will get to that point faster.


I believe this bears out both what she said that the Dr. said and what my
CDE said.

http://www.ehow.com/facts_7357509_ha...hydrates_.html

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"Todd" > wrote in message
...

>
> Hi Ozgirl and Karen,
>
> When I was inducted into the "pin cushion club" it was with
> diabetic ketoacidosis. This is a whole different issue than
> someone not feeding themselves enough. I was not eating
> enough fat, eating tons of carbs, and my cells were
> burning their own fat and yelling to my liver that
> they were starving, despite how much I ate. Very
> insulin resistant. I have fortunately stopped loosing
> weight since Paleo.


Are you sure of this? It is rare for a type 2 to have that.
>
> You can monitor your keytones with keyto sticks. They
> are fairly cheap at Wal mart, over by the diabetic supplies.
> I can eat all the fat I want and no keytones. They only come
> when I fast and burn my own fat. (I don't fast on purpose.)
> This is why dieters on no carb diets monitor their keytones.
> They actually want to go into ketosis. Never heard
> of it doing any damage.


I'm pretty sure that they monitor their ketones. And that only needs to be
done if you have really high BG, or so I was told by my former CDE.

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"Julie Bove" wrote in message ...


"Ozgirl" > wrote in message
...

>
> Karen, I think you may have mis-heard the doctor. Ketone bodies are
> formed in the liver as a result of fat break-down - the fatty acids
> are converted to ketones in the liver - first and fore-most (after
> depletion of glucose stores). Conversion of muscle protein to ketones
> is way down the track. If you have ever been on a weight loss diet or
> fasting (or even normal overnight fasting) then you have produced
> ketone bodies. FWIW, even when I was doing very low carb at the
> beginning of my type 2 diagnosis I only barely registered ketones on a
> pee stick. Most times none showed up. Of course that doesn't mean I
> wasn't producing ketones, just that the concentration wasn't high
> enough to register. Just like you won't see glucose in your urine
> until your bg is quite high. The only time you would start to lose
> muscle is when the body runs out of fuel sources, as in prolonged
> starvation (as in little to no food - faster obviously if one can't
> get water either), and protein in muscle becomes the food source. The
> body is designed in a way to prevent muscle loss, we need muscles to
> move. Low carbers are not starving and I seriously doubt there are any
> low carbers out there that lower their protein levels drastically.
> Eating plenty of protein ensures that the muscles are maintained
> properly. There are protective metabolic processes in the body that
> preserve the body for as long as possible, using muscle protein as a
> very last resort. Once muscle catabolism starts you could probably
> safely say you are close to death. Slim people will get to that point
> faster.


I believe this bears out both what she said that the Dr. said and what
my
CDE said.

http://www.ehow.com/facts_7357509_ha...hydrates_.html

---------

Unfortunately that site is way off mark. This is the sort of stuff I
read in op-ed parts of the newspaper, not from scientific journals.
Biochemistry is rather easy to understand (and a very exciting branch of
science) and any search amongst publications like Pubmed etc will
explain the citric acid cycle (Kreb's cycle) as part of human metabolic
pathways.



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"Ozgirl" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> "Julie Bove" wrote in message ...
>
>
> "Ozgirl" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>
>> Karen, I think you may have mis-heard the doctor. Ketone bodies are
>> formed in the liver as a result of fat break-down - the fatty acids are
>> converted to ketones in the liver - first and fore-most (after depletion
>> of glucose stores). Conversion of muscle protein to ketones is way down
>> the track. If you have ever been on a weight loss diet or fasting (or
>> even normal overnight fasting) then you have produced ketone bodies.
>> FWIW, even when I was doing very low carb at the beginning of my type 2
>> diagnosis I only barely registered ketones on a pee stick. Most times
>> none showed up. Of course that doesn't mean I wasn't producing ketones,
>> just that the concentration wasn't high enough to register. Just like you
>> won't see glucose in your urine until your bg is quite high. The only
>> time you would start to lose muscle is when the body runs out of fuel
>> sources, as in prolonged starvation (as in little to no food - faster
>> obviously if one can't get water either), and protein in muscle becomes
>> the food source. The body is designed in a way to prevent muscle loss, we
>> need muscles to move. Low carbers are not starving and I seriously doubt
>> there are any low carbers out there that lower their protein levels
>> drastically. Eating plenty of protein ensures that the muscles are
>> maintained properly. There are protective metabolic processes in the
>> body that preserve the body for as long as possible, using muscle protein
>> as a very last resort. Once muscle catabolism starts you could probably
>> safely say you are close to death. Slim people will get to that point
>> faster.

>
> I believe this bears out both what she said that the Dr. said and what my
> CDE said.
>
> http://www.ehow.com/facts_7357509_ha...hydrates_.html
>
> ---------
>
> Unfortunately that site is way off mark. This is the sort of stuff I read
> in op-ed parts of the newspaper, not from scientific journals.
> Biochemistry is rather easy to understand (and a very exciting branch of
> science) and any search amongst publications like Pubmed etc will explain
> the citric acid cycle (Kreb's cycle) as part of human metabolic pathways.


But it is exactly what is repeated again and again by Drs., dieticians and
CDEs. Have also read the same in countless books and magazines.

I just did a search on carbs and how many we need to eat in a day. I didn't
put up any links because nothing seemed to agree with anything else. There
were the staunch low carbers who claim that we don't need them. Then there
were those with a bunch of garbledeegook but never went beyond perhaps
giving a percentage and then saying that it was debatable. Then one gave a
range of numbers. Apparently you don't need many carbs if trying to lose
weight. But if not trying, you need a lot of them!

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On 10/11/2013 4:08 PM, Maya Zuiderweg wrote:
> Na rijp beraad schreef Don Roberto :
>> On 10/9/2013 11:24 AM, Todd wrote:
>>> On 10/08/2013 05:54 AM, Don Roberto wrote:
>>>>> Yes. And since there is a zero biological requirement for dietary
>>>>> carbohydrate in human biology,
>>>>
>>>> *Dr* Susan at her best...
>>>
>>> Don,
>>>
>>> She is correct. Various aboriginal and the Inuits
>>> eat no fruit or veg's. As my GP says "there is no
>>> scientific proof whatsoever that the consumption
>>> of fat is harmful to humans."
>>>
>>> The Inuits did not start getting "White Man's"
>>> diseases until the "convenience stores" moved in.
>>>
>>> Give her a break, she doesn't like to see people
>>> hurt. Her heart is in the right place.
>>>

>>
>>
>> Bull!
>> Susan seems to be incapable of even considering anything that does not
>> fit her preconceived notions.
>> She badmouths and then allegedly killfiles anyone who does not agree
>> with her.
>> She then snipes at those she allegedly killfiled from behind her
>> alleged killfile.

>
> I totally agree with you.
> As a newbie I had very bad experiences with Susan.
> She kept telling me how to eat with diabetes (low carb), but I have a
> different kind of diabetes (chronic pancreatitis).
> She had no knowledge at all about this disease but kept telling me what
> to do.
> With my disease it's of the utmost importance that my diet is based on
> carbohydrates. Absolutely NO low carbing for me.
> When it became clear that she didnt know diddlysquat, she killfiled me.
> That was quite unnerving for a newbie:-(
> But since killfiling does not always work (think of a reply to me by
> another poster, who she had not killfiled), she kept on sniping - and
> even suggesting that I did not even exist. (as if I could not read that,
> very hurtful).
>


+1

>>
>> In other words: neither her heart nor her brains are in the right place.
>>
>>> And the guy I know with the prosthetic legs,
>>> the HUGE heart attack, the ruined kidneys, the
>>> oxygen tank, still to this day tells me you
>>> get to occasionally cheat on the diet. As I
>>> said, give Susan a break.
>>>

>>
>> Nope.

>
> Please do.
> M.
>
>


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On 10/11/2013 4:20 PM, Maya Zuiderweg wrote:
> Maya Zuiderweg had uiteengezet :
>> Na rijp beraad schreef Don Roberto :
>>> On 10/9/2013 11:24 AM, Todd wrote:
>>>> On 10/08/2013 05:54 AM, Don Roberto wrote:
>>>>>> Yes. And since there is a zero biological requirement for dietary
>>>>>> carbohydrate in human biology,
>>>>>
>>>>> *Dr* Susan at her best...
>>>>
>>>> Don,
>>>>
>>>> She is correct. Various aboriginal and the Inuits
>>>> eat no fruit or veg's. As my GP says "there is no
>>>> scientific proof whatsoever that the consumption
>>>> of fat is harmful to humans."
>>>>
>>>> The Inuits did not start getting "White Man's"
>>>> diseases until the "convenience stores" moved in.
>>>>
>>>> Give her a break, she doesn't like to see people
>>>> hurt. Her heart is in the right place.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Bull!
>>> Susan seems to be incapable of even considering anything that does
>>> not fit her preconceived notions.
>>> She badmouths and then allegedly killfiles anyone who does not agree
>>> with her.
>>> She then snipes at those she allegedly killfiled from behind her
>>> alleged killfile.

>>
>> I totally agree with you.
>> As a newbie I had very bad experiences with Susan.
>> She kept telling me how to eat with diabetes (low carb), but I have a
>> different kind of diabetes (chronic pancreatitis).
>> She had no knowledge at all about this disease but kept telling me
>> what to do.
>> With my disease it's of the utmost importance that my diet is based on
>> carbohydrates. Absolutely NO low carbing for me.
>> When it became clear that she didnt know diddlysquat, she killfiled me.
>> That was quite unnerving for a newbie:-(
>> But since killfiling does not always work (think of a reply to me by
>> another poster, who she had not killfiled), she kept on sniping - and
>> even suggesting that I did not even exist. (as if I could not read
>> that, very hurtful).
>>
>>>
>>> In other words: neither her heart nor her brains are in the right place.
>>>
>>>> And the guy I know with the prosthetic legs,
>>>> the HUGE heart attack, the ruined kidneys, the
>>>> oxygen tank, still to this day tells me you
>>>> get to occasionally cheat on the diet. As I
>>>> said, give Susan a break.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Nope.

>>
>> Please do.
>> M.

>
> Please go on reacting like you do - was what I meant.
> M.
>
>


I got you the first time.
And yes, I will go on reacting like I do.
In the words of Martin Luther:
Hier stehe ich, ich kann nicht anders.

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On 10/11/2013 9:40 PM, Todd wrote:
> On 10/11/2013 07:50 PM, Karen wrote:
>> Just this week I had a doctor tell me when you do not
>> get enough energy from carbs your body starts breaking down muscle and
>> then you spill ketones into the urine.

>
> Hi Karen,
>
> You (or someone else) is paying out the nose for those doctors.
> Of course follow what they say.
>
> Are you sure that is what the doctor said? If you google
> "Inuit paradox" you will find that the Inuits don't have
> any carbs at all. Carbs are not necessary for humans.
> My GP laughed and said I was correct when I mentioned
> the Inuits. (He was happy I am low carb, rather than constantly
> trying to cheat the regimen. He does not like having to
> amputate legs.)
>
> Your liver will manufacture whatever glucose you need. And
> you spill keytones into your urine when you fast (you feel
> hungry when this happens). You also blow them out your
> breath. You will smell like fruit punch. It comes from the
> breakdown of your own stored fat. (Keyto sticks are
> really cheap at Wal mart, if you want to monitor yourself.
> They are over by the diabetic test strips.)
>
> Here is a nice article on keytones:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketone_bodies
> "Ketone bodies are three different water-soluble,
> biochemicals that are produced as by-products when
> fatty acids are broken down in the liver for energy..."
>
> I think possibly you heard your doctor wrong. Maybe
> next time you see him, you should ask him about the Inuits
> and where keytones come from.


Why do you address her like she is a child?

As for the Inuit - there isn't enough info about how their "no carb
diet" effected them as there weren't enough scientific studies done
before western eating habits caught up with them. What *is* known is
that Inuit life expectancy was lower than that of Westerners. Even in
the 21st century Canadians in general live 12 years longer than the Inuit.


If that is what he really
> said, you may wish to do some research on your own.


Perhaps you should take your own advise:
Start he
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-carbohydrate_diet

There is very little evidence that a no carb diet does no harm, but
plenty that it does, especially in the long run.

> (I would get another doctor, but that is only me.)
> But, I think you heard him wrong: it is a major screw up.
>
> And, when I said "learn to cook", I meant as/for a diabetic.
> If your diabetes is such, and we all have our own personalized
> diabetes, that you can eat the modern diet then more
> power to you. All I can say is that if you go back to
> Paleo, you will probably feel better and your diabetics
> will possibly be easier to handle. Perhaps not.
>
> And if you can eat high carb, this is probably not
> the best place to publish your recipes. There is a
> really nice cooking group for regular folks too (T0's).
>
> And I only kill file nasty people who like to pick fights.
> So, you are not kill filed. People can disagree with each
> other without being disagreeable. It is actually fun to
> learn from others. Let us start over. Hello, my name is
> Todd. I am a NIDDM (non-insulin-dependent diabetes mellitus
> or non-insulin dependent type 2 diabetic). I am currently
> drug free and hope I never have to go on drugs again.
> I control my T2/NIDDM with diet, natural medicine, and
> fishing (exercise that is fun). I love to cook diabetic/Paleo.
>
> Now your turn. I am Karen ...
>
> -T
>
>
>


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On Fri, 11 Oct 2013 21:40:30 -0700, in alt.food.diabetic, Todd
> wrote:

>On 10/11/2013 07:50 PM, Karen wrote:
>> Just this week I had a doctor tell me when you do not
>> get enough energy from carbs your body starts breaking down muscle and
>> then you spill ketones into the urine.

>
>Hi Karen,
>
>You (or someone else) is paying out the nose for those doctors.
>Of course follow what they say.
>
>Are you sure that is what the doctor said? If you google
>"Inuit paradox" you will find that the Inuits don't have
>any carbs at all. Carbs are not necessary for humans.
>My GP laughed and said I was correct when I mentioned
>the Inuits. (He was happy I am low carb, rather than constantly
>trying to cheat the regimen. He does not like having to
>amputate legs.)
>
>Your liver will manufacture whatever glucose you need. And
>you spill keytones into your urine when you fast (you feel
>hungry when this happens). You also blow them out your
>breath. You will smell like fruit punch. It comes from the
>breakdown of your own stored fat. (Keyto sticks are
>really cheap at Wal mart, if you want to monitor yourself.
>They are over by the diabetic test strips.)
>
>Here is a nice article on keytones:
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketone_bodies
> "Ketone bodies are three different water-soluble,
> biochemicals that are produced as by-products when
> fatty acids are broken down in the liver for energy..."
>
>I think possibly you heard your doctor wrong. Maybe
>next time you see him, you should ask him about the Inuits
>and where keytones come from. If that is what he really
>said, you may wish to do some research on your own.
>(I would get another doctor, but that is only me.)
>But, I think you heard him wrong: it is a major screw up.
>
>And, when I said "learn to cook", I meant as/for a diabetic.
>If your diabetes is such, and we all have our own personalized
>diabetes, that you can eat the modern diet then more
>power to you. All I can say is that if you go back to
>Paleo, you will probably feel better and your diabetics
>will possibly be easier to handle. Perhaps not.
>
>And if you can eat high carb, this is probably not
>the best place to publish your recipes. There is a
>really nice cooking group for regular folks too (T0's).
>
>And I only kill file nasty people who like to pick fights.
>So, you are not kill filed. People can disagree with each
>other without being disagreeable. It is actually fun to
>learn from others. Let us start over. Hello, my name is
>Todd. I am a NIDDM (non-insulin-dependent diabetes mellitus
>or non-insulin dependent type 2 diabetic). I am currently
>drug free and hope I never have to go on drugs again.
>I control my T2/NIDDM with diet, natural medicine, and
>fishing (exercise that is fun). I love to cook diabetic/Paleo.
>
>Now your turn. I am Karen ...


>-T


Todd, I follow what my endo says because it has worked for me. Why
would I change what is working? That seems self defeating. It has
managed my T2 quite well. I really don't wish to go on the paleo
diet. You like it, and that's good-for you, but for me. I see no
need to change what is already working. My numbers are good, I take
no meds for that. I have no neuropathy, and excellent circulation to
my feet.

As for the conversation, I am done with it. I have no wish to argue
any more. I hope we can just agree to disagree and leave it at that.
I won't change my mind, and you aren't changing yours. Peace....
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