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Opinion piece on artificial sweeteners
Todd > wrote:
: On 07/22/2013 08:24 AM, Trawley Trash wrote: : > potato/mung bean noodles : Potatoes and beans? How do you get away with all the carbs : in this? Are you T2 or T1? since Trawley's issue is alleregies to fructose , etc, potatoes seem to be one of the few carbs that can be managed and I guess beans in some moderation too. This is why we always use the mantraYMMV(Your Mileage May Vary) when discussing foods, diets, carb amounts, etc as we all differ. Trawley's is a rather exptreme cse, but what works, works. Not all recipes will work for all diabetics and not al diets wil work too. These topics are much betterd iscussed on either asd or mhd rather than this food group, which was started a s kind of recipe swap rather than another site for scientific discussiion Wendy |
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Opinion piece on artificial sweeteners
On Wed, 24 Jul 2013 11:58:11 -0700
Todd > wrote: > On 07/22/2013 08:24 AM, Trawley Trash wrote: > > potato/mung bean noodles > > Potatoes and beans? How do you get away with all the carbs > in this? Are you T2 or T1? Type II, but the problem seems to be fructose and galactose. Grains are out, because they contain fructans. These are not digestible by us, but intestinal flora can break them down and release fructose. This gives a delayed reaction that is difficult to detect, but it is repeatable once I know to look for it. Some grasses have more fructans/fructose than others. At the top of the list is sugar cane. Those with the least are wheat at 0.7 % and rice with virtually none. Fermenting and cooking reduce the amount of fructose. It is interesting that the earliest use of grains was in making beer. This was probably a thin porridge that was left to ferment. Amerindians used a similar method to render acorns less toxic by soaking the flour for several days. Beans are off my paleo menu, because they contain galactose and galactans, but as with fructose the amount varies widely. The worst beans are phaseolus vulgaris: pinto, lima, green, and almost all the common beans yous see in stores. Again fermenting, cooking and sprouting can be used to render them less toxic. Mung beans are a different species, and they seem to be OK. Long beans are different genus from common beans, and I can eat those. I have to test any new bean carefully. There is a limit on the amount of carbs I can eat. I doubt I will ever eat a plate of pasta again. But 200-300 grams of potatoes spread through the day seem to be no problem. -- I'm Trawley Trash, and you haven't heard the last of me yet. |
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Opinion piece on artificial sweeteners
In article >,
bigwheel > wrote: > 'Billy[_8_ Wrote: > > ;1851522']In article , > > bigwheel wrote: > > - > > Todd;1849654 Wrote: - > > On 07/15/2013 02:21 PM, bigwheel wrote:- > > Guess the Eyetalian part of the family tree is not large enough to > > develop a taste for eggplant. Never even tasted one till I was fully > > grown. They always looked sorta weird.- > > > > Hi Big, > > > > My "Eyetalian part" would be my mom's side. Yours? > > > > There is a difference between fully grown and too old. > > If you get them from a local farm, ask the farmer and > > he will show you (as one did me) how to pick them. > > Be careful, the buzzards have thorns! (At my > > local farm, they go so quick, they never get too old.) > > > > The local farms said they would have some in a week > > or two. I will be begging for advice on how to > > cook them when that happens. I got the pressure > > cooker down, but not the frying. > > > > Oh ya, and egg plant tastes like heck (not the > > actual word I was thinking) when it is not grown > > properly and sits on a shelf forever. Find a CSA farm. > > > > -T > > > > Maybe next year, I will try growing them.- > > > > Never been to an egg plant farm. Think our horticulture folks are > > concentrating on growing guv'ment subsidized corn so Alfgore and Obie > > can waste it making ethanol to damage our cars. Wacky tobaccy seems to > > be other big cash crop in these parts.- > > > > The Emerald Triangle is just above me (Mendocino, and Humbolt Counties). > > > > There isn't any income tax filed by growers, but it has been estimated > > that the marijuana harvest is worth more than the California wine > > harvest ($3 billion in 2012). > > > > Funny how the government subsidizes crops that Cargill, and Archer > > Daniels Midland uses, but not so much for vegetables that could keep > > Americans healthy. > > -- > > Palestinian Child Detained > > 'Israel military detains 5-year-old Palestinian for 'stone > > throwing' - YouTube' (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzSzH38jYcg) > > > > Remember Rachel Corrie > > 'Rachel Corrie Memorial Website' (http://www.rachelcorrie.org/) > > > > Welcome to the New America. > > 'Naomi Klein - The Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism - > > YouTube' (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA736oK9FPg) > > Yes. At the risk of being redundant yet again another time..The inmates > are running the asylum. It seems that no matter who becomes President, the pods get them, and all humanity is sucked out of them. All we get is the flashy smile, and lots of hollow words. Made "Steak Diane" sauce the other night. It helped me choke a dry porter house. Steak Diane Servings: makes 2 servings Prep Time: 10 minutes Cook Time: 10 minutes Total Time: 20 minutes Ingredients € 8 ozs filet mignon (medallions) € pepper € salt € 1 tbsp butter ? Tasty tip € 2 shallots (finely diced) € 1 clove garlic (chopped) € 1/2 tsp thyme (chopped) € 1 cup cremini mushrooms (sliced) € 1/4 cup brandy (or cognac) € 2 tsps dijon mustard € 1/4 cup heavy cream € 1/4 cup veal stock ? Tasty tip € 2 tsps worcestershire sauce € 1 tbsp parsley (chopped) Directions 1. Season the beef with salt and pepper. 2. Melt the butter in a pan over medium-high heat. 3. Add the beef and sear for 1-2 minutes on each side and set aside. 4. Add the shallots, garlic and thyme and saute for 20 seconds. 5. Add the mushrooms and saute until tender, about 2 minutes. 6. Add the brandy and carefully ignite. 7. Add the mustard and cream and mix while cooking for a minute. 8. Add the veal broth, deglaze the pan and simmer for another minute. 9. Add the Worcestershire sauce, parsley and any juices that collected under the beef to the pan and remove from heat. 10. Divide the beef and sauce between two plates and enjoy. It wasn't that bad. -- Palestinian Child Detained <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzSzH38jYcg> Remember Rachel Corrie <http://www.rachelcorrie.org/> Welcome to the New America. <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA736oK9FPg> |
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Opinion piece on artificial sweeteners
On 07/25/2013 10:20 AM, Trawley Trash wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Jul 2013 11:58:11 -0700 > Todd > wrote: > >> On 07/22/2013 08:24 AM, Trawley Trash wrote: >>> potato/mung bean noodles >> >> Potatoes and beans? How do you get away with all the carbs >> in this? Are you T2 or T1? > > Type II, but the problem seems to be fructose and galactose. > Grains are out, because they contain fructans. These are > not digestible by us, but intestinal flora can break them > down and release fructose. This gives a delayed reaction that > is difficult to detect, but it is repeatable once I know > to look for it. > > Some grasses have more fructans/fructose than others. At the > top of the list is sugar cane. Those with the least are wheat > at 0.7 % and rice with virtually none. Fermenting and cooking > reduce the amount of fructose. It is interesting that the > earliest use of grains was in making beer. This was probably > a thin porridge that was left to ferment. Amerindians used > a similar method to render acorns less toxic by soaking the > flour for several days. > > Beans are off my paleo menu, because they contain galactose > and galactans, but as with fructose the amount varies widely. > The worst beans are phaseolus vulgaris: pinto, lima, green, > and almost all the common beans yous see in stores. Again > fermenting, cooking and sprouting can be used to render them less > toxic. Mung beans are a different species, and they seem to be > OK. Long beans are different genus from common beans, and I can eat > those. I have to test any new bean carefully. > > There is a limit on the amount of carbs I can eat. I doubt I > will ever eat a plate of pasta again. But 200-300 grams of potatoes > spread through the day seem to be no problem. > Hi Trawley, What a pain in the neck! It does sound more and more like your liver. I loved my pasta and I think that is what did me in (T2 NIDDM). I am Paleo now too, less the bugs, lizards, snakes ... I think beer is what started all this T2 stuff. Once we discovered beer, we started hybridizing grains to improve the production of beer. -T |
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Opinion piece on artificial sweeteners
On Fri, 26 Jul 2013 10:34:28 -0700
Todd > wrote: > I loved my pasta and I think that is what did me in > (T2 NIDDM). I am Paleo now too, less the bugs, lizards, > snakes ... Our paleo ancestors didn't have fruit trees or vegetables cultivated for centuries to make them sweeter. Certainly they did not have grains or milk. However it does seem as though bugs, lizards, and snakes were a part of their diet. Is that really any different from crab, lobster, or shrimp? Then there are snails, clams, and mussels. Eels were served as a snack food not so many centuries ago in England; wurst seems to have been a replacement invented when the natural supply of eels ran short. If you look in the obscure corners of gourmet supermarkets, you may well find roasted grasshoppers or chocolate covered ants. Not that I eat those things myself. -- I'm Trawley Trash, and you haven't heard the last of me yet. |
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Opinion piece on artificial sweeteners
In article >,
Trawley Trash > wrote: > On Fri, 26 Jul 2013 10:34:28 -0700 > Todd > wrote: > > > I loved my pasta and I think that is what did me in > > (T2 NIDDM). I am Paleo now too, less the bugs, lizards, > > snakes ... > > Our paleo ancestors didn't have fruit trees or vegetables > cultivated for centuries to make them sweeter. Certainly > they did not have grains or milk. Milk, no, not until animal husbandry, but they would collect grain from wild grasses. Grains that had a mutant gene that kept the grain heads from shattering, and dispersing the seeds. Seed selection began. The rest of the produce was seasonal. > > However it does seem as though bugs, lizards, and snakes > were a part of their diet. Is that really any different > from crab, lobster, or shrimp? Then there are snails, > clams, and mussels. Eels were served as a snack food > not so many centuries ago in England; wurst seems > to have been a replacement invented when the natural supply > of eels ran short. If you look in the obscure corners of > gourmet supermarkets, you may well find roasted grasshoppers > or chocolate covered ants. > > Not that I eat those things myself. Avoid processed foods. -- Palestinian Child Detained <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzSzH38jYcg> Remember Rachel Corrie <http://www.rachelcorrie.org/> Welcome to the New America. <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA736oK9FPg> |
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Opinion piece on artificial sweeteners
Trawley Trash > wrote:
: On Fri, 26 Jul 2013 10:34:28 -0700 : Todd > wrote: : > I loved my pasta and I think that is what did me in : > (T2 NIDDM). I am Paleo now too, less the bugs, lizards, : > snakes ... : Our paleo ancestors didn't have fruit trees or vegetables : cultivated for centuries to make them sweeter. Certainly : they did not have grains or milk. They did avve berries in season. Wendy |
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Opinion piece on artificial sweeteners
On 07/27/2013 05:44 AM, Trawley Trash wrote:
> Not that I eat those things myself. Step away from the chocolate covered cockroach!!! Mother would not approve. :-) |
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Opinion piece on artificial sweeteners
On 07/27/2013 10:42 AM, Billy wrote:
> In article >, > Trawley Trash > wrote: > >> On Fri, 26 Jul 2013 10:34:28 -0700 >> Todd > wrote: >> >>> I loved my pasta and I think that is what did me in >>> (T2 NIDDM). I am Paleo now too, less the bugs, lizards, >>> snakes ... >> >> Our paleo ancestors didn't have fruit trees or vegetables >> cultivated for centuries to make them sweeter. Certainly >> they did not have grains or milk. > > Milk, no, not until animal husbandry, but they would collect grain from > wild grasses. Grains that had a mutant gene that kept the grain heads > from shattering, and dispersing the seeds. Seed selection began. The > rest of the produce was seasonal. Saw a documentary on corn, think it was a Nova, where the hybridized corn backwards to what they found in archaeological digs of early new world folks. Turns our corn was a 6" long grass with two or three tiny seeds. >> >> However it does seem as though bugs, lizards, and snakes >> were a part of their diet. Is that really any different >> from crab, lobster, or shrimp? Then there are snails, >> clams, and mussels. Eels were served as a snack food >> not so many centuries ago in England; wurst seems >> to have been a replacement invented when the natural supply >> of eels ran short. If you look in the obscure corners of >> gourmet supermarkets, you may well find roasted grasshoppers >> or chocolate covered ants. >> >> Not that I eat those things myself. > > Avoid processed foods. 1+ !!!! That is where all those vegetarians are more healthy studies comes from. Real/strict vegi's are demonstrably unhealthy, unless they comes from area with poor sanitation and have a lot of bugs eggs and bug parts in in the grains. So they take political vegetarians -- meaning they won't eat anything prettier than they are -- and study them. These political vegi's are vegi's in name only. They eat eggs, chicken, fish, milk, etc.. They are technically omnivorous who eat healthy: organic foods, their own gardens, they cook, very little processed anything. Then they compare these omnivorous to the general population eating processed meats and high carbs, disgusting stock yard meat etc.. Of course health couscous omnivorous are more healthy. What a crock of S---! |
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Opinion piece on artificial sweeteners
On 07/27/2013 12:20 PM, W. Baker wrote:
> Trawley Trash > wrote: > : On Fri, 26 Jul 2013 10:34:28 -0700 > : Todd > wrote: > > : > I loved my pasta and I think that is what did me in > : > (T2 NIDDM). I am Paleo now too, less the bugs, lizards, > : > snakes ... > > : Our paleo ancestors didn't have fruit trees or vegetables > : cultivated for centuries to make them sweeter. Certainly > : they did not have grains or milk. > > They did avve berries in season. Yes, but not like the ones we have today! Blue berries are probably the closest to our artificially hybridized ones today. Even eat a wild goose berry? Not very sweet. I would love to see what wild berries Alaskan bears eat and see it I could grow some of them. -T |
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Opinion piece on artificial sweeteners
On 07/27/2013 05:44 AM, Trawley Trash wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Jul 2013 10:34:28 -0700 > Todd > wrote: > >> I loved my pasta and I think that is what did me in >> (T2 NIDDM). I am Paleo now too, less the bugs, lizards, >> snakes ... > > Our paleo ancestors didn't have fruit trees or vegetables > cultivated for centuries to make them sweeter. Certainly > they did not have grains or milk. 1+ !!!!!! As I tell my friends that asks about the T2, I tell them I can pretty much eat anything I want, with in reason, except things that have been artificially hybridized for high carbohydrate/sugar content. Have you read the carbs in an orange? Yikes!!!! This the addition of you guys and the CSA farm, I actually have more variety than I ever had before too. And, those few times when I am out in the field and did not have time to make food to take with me, the three places I stop bend over backwards to accommodate me: one, the owner is a fellow T2; another, the brother of the owner is a T2 and both cooks love to cook Paleo; and the third one has a daughter that is allergic to wheat. > However it does seem as though bugs, lizards, and snakes > were a part of their diet. Is that really any different > from crab, lobster, or shrimp? Then there are snails, > clams, and mussels. Eels were served as a snack food > not so many centuries ago in England; wurst seems > to have been a replacement invented when the natural supply > of eels ran short. If you look in the obscure corners of > gourmet supermarkets, you may well find roasted grasshoppers > or chocolate covered ants. > > Not that I eat those things myself. > |
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Opinion piece on artificial sweeteners
Todd > wrote:
: On 07/27/2013 12:20 PM, W. Baker wrote: : > Trawley Trash > wrote: : > : On Fri, 26 Jul 2013 10:34:28 -0700 : > : Todd > wrote: : > : > : > I loved my pasta and I think that is what did me in : > : > (T2 NIDDM). I am Paleo now too, less the bugs, lizards, : > : > snakes ... : > : > : Our paleo ancestors didn't have fruit trees or vegetables : > : cultivated for centuries to make them sweeter. Certainly : > : they did not have grains or milk. : > : > They did avve berries in season. : Yes, but not like the ones we have today! Blue : berries are probably the closest to our artificially : hybridized ones today. Even eat a wild goose berry? : Not very sweet. : I would love to see what wild berries Alaskan bears : eat and see it I could grow some of them. : -T Ever eat wild huckleberries in the woods of Maine? Jus wonderful! Wendy |
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Opinion piece on artificial sweeteners
On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 13:38:24 -0700, Todd > wrote:
>On 07/27/2013 05:44 AM, Trawley Trash wrote: >> Not that I eat those things myself. > >Step away from the chocolate covered cockroach!!! >Mother would not approve. :-) He's not concerned with what mother wants, but he is terrified as to what Big Brother has to say..... |
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Opinion piece on artificial sweeteners
In article >, Todd >
wrote: > On 07/27/2013 10:42 AM, Billy wrote: > > In article >, > > Trawley Trash > wrote: > > > >> On Fri, 26 Jul 2013 10:34:28 -0700 > >> Todd > wrote: > >> > >>> I loved my pasta and I think that is what did me in > >>> (T2 NIDDM). I am Paleo now too, less the bugs, lizards, > >>> snakes ... > >> > >> Our paleo ancestors didn't have fruit trees or vegetables > >> cultivated for centuries to make them sweeter. Certainly > >> they did not have grains or milk. > > > > Milk, no, not until animal husbandry, but they would collect grain from > > wild grasses. Grains that had a mutant gene that kept the grain heads > > from shattering, and dispersing the seeds. Seed selection began. The > > rest of the produce was seasonal. Leafy plants of course become available after winter recedes, but the real feeding frenzy was in the Fall when flowering plants produce their seed. > > Saw a documentary on corn, think it was a Nova, where the hybridized > corn backwards to what they found in archaeological digs of early > new world folks. Turns our corn was a 6" long grass with two or > three tiny seeds. > > >> > >> However it does seem as though bugs, lizards, and snakes > >> were a part of their diet. Is that really any different > >> from crab, lobster, or shrimp? Then there are snails, > >> clams, and mussels. Eels were served as a snack food > >> not so many centuries ago in England; wurst seems > >> to have been a replacement invented when the natural supply > >> of eels ran short. If you look in the obscure corners of > >> gourmet supermarkets, you may well find roasted grasshoppers > >> or chocolate covered ants. > >> > >> Not that I eat those things myself. > > > > Avoid processed foods. > > 1+ !!!! > > That is where all those vegetarians are more > healthy studies comes from. Real/strict vegi's are Why not just call them Vegans? > demonstrably unhealthy, unless they comes from area with > poor sanitation and have a lot of bugs eggs and bug parts in > in the grains. So they take political vegetarians -- meaning > they won't eat anything prettier than they are -- and study > them. These political vegi's are vegi's in name only. They > eat eggs, chicken, fish, milk, etc.. They are technically > omnivorous who eat healthy: organic foods, their own gardens, > they cook, very little processed anything. Then they compare > these omnivorous to the general population eating processed > meats and high carbs, disgusting stock yard meat etc.. > > Of course health couscous omnivorous are more healthy. What > a crock of S---! It's truly breath taking, the way profound ignorance can take a data point, and turn it into a vast unfounded generalization. The grass you reference is teosinte. It is still extremely important for biodiversity, but rice, wheat, oats, barley, and millet also made this journey. Hunter gathers, ate what they were given, vegetables, meat, and some starch. Eden really became undone with agriculture. <http://www3.gettysburg.edu/~dperry/C...ned%20Document s/Intro/Diamond.PDF> First, it was the consumption of virgin top soil. More recently, the protein that envelops us comes from the Fritz Haber Process <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haber_process> and is responsible for the last 4 billion people to join the human race. Until such time that the human population of the planet is reduced by a couple of magnitudes, you can expect most people to eat what they can to survive. From what I've read, not only can't children expect to live better than their parents anymore, they can't even expect to live as long as their parents, with self-inflicted CVD from diet being the main culprit. <http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/22/magazine/22wwlnlede.t.html> I believe you also referenced the Mau-Mau Hypothesis: If you are what you eat, then eat people who are smarter , and better looking than you. -- Palestinian Child Detained <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzSzH38jYcg> Remember Rachel Corrie <http://www.rachelcorrie.org/> Welcome to the New America. <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA736oK9FPg> |
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Opinion piece on artificial sweeteners
On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 19:20:52 +0000 (UTC)
"W. Baker" > wrote: > : Our paleo ancestors didn't have fruit trees or vegetables > : cultivated for centuries to make them sweeter. Certainly > : they did not have grains or milk. > > They did avve berries in season. In season: just before winter. Time to pig out and then hibernate. Berries are also cultivated for sweetness. When you have to live on berries, you find they are only sweet for a few days. Most of the time they are not. -- I'm Trawley Trash, and you haven't heard the last of me yet. |
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Opinion piece on artificial sweeteners
On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 18:57:54 -0500
DonOpple0paad > wrote: > Y'all do know that it was early primitives that began hybridization of > our crops? > > Thousands of years ago. Yes, and the crops evolve faster than we do. Fructose is an addictive poison, and we are killing ourselves. -- I'm Trawley Trash, and you haven't heard the last of me yet. |
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Opinion piece on artificial sweeteners
On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 23:09:58 -0700
Billy > wrote: > First, it was the consumption of virgin top soil. More recently, the > protein that envelops us comes from the Fritz Haber Process > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haber_process> > and is responsible for the last 4 billion people to join the human > race. OK. The Haber process produces ammonia that can then be used as fertilizer. Other than the need to balance this with other nutrients, I don't see a problem here. The earth is supporting 7 billion at the moment, and I don't see any reason why it can't support 20 billion. -- I'm Trawley Trash, and you haven't heard the last of me yet. |
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Opinion piece on artificial sweeteners
W. Baker wrote:
[massive snippage] > Do the Lapps still move with the reindeer herds > in Northern Scandinavia? all ancient practices. > > Wendy They do. In the northernmost part of Norway, they walk from the inland plain to the coast, freighted by boats/small ships to the islands to graze all summer. When summer is ending they SWIM back to the mainland, with boats standing by to help stragglers. They are in much better shape than in the spring :-) There's also reindeer herding in the southern mountains, less movement but they have to be watched all the time so they don't join the herds of wild reindeer. |
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Opinion piece on artificial sweeteners
Bjørn Steensrud wrote:
> W. Baker wrote: > > [massive snippage] > >> Do the Lapps still move with the reindeer herds >> in Northern Scandinavia? all ancient practices. >> >> Wendy > > They do. In the northernmost part of Norway, they walk from the inland > plain to the coast, freighted by boats/small ships to the islands to graze > all summer. When summer is ending they SWIM back to the mainland, with > boats standing by to help stragglers. They are in much better shape than > in the spring :-) I should add that the deer walk and swim, not the Sami :-) > There's also reindeer herding in the southern mountains, less movement but > they have to be watched all the time so they don't join the herds of wild > reindeer. |
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Opinion piece on artificial sweeteners
Bj?rn Steensrud > wrote:
: W. Baker wrote: : [massive snippage] : > Do the Lapps still move with the reindeer herds : > in Northern Scandinavia? all ancient practices. : > : > Wendy : They do. In the northernmost part of Norway, they walk from the inland plain : to the coast, freighted by boats/small ships to the islands to graze all : summer. When summer is ending they SWIM back to the mainland, with boats : standing by to help stragglers. They are in much better shape than in the : spring :-) : There's also reindeer herding in the southern mountains, less movement but : they have to be watched all the time so they don't join the herds of wild : reindeer. thansk you. It is nice to know it is still done, but it is a hard life. I assume that reindeer never were able to be fully domesticated, so the herders dpated to what could be done. Wendy |
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Opinion piece on artificial sweeteners
Bj?rn Steensrud > wrote:
: Bj?rn Steensrud wrote: : > W. Baker wrote: : > : > [massive snippage] : > : >> Do the Lapps still move with the reindeer herds : >> in Northern Scandinavia? all ancient practices. : >> : >> Wendy : > : > They do. In the northernmost part of Norway, they walk from the inland : > plain to the coast, freighted by boats/small ships to the islands to graze : > all summer. When summer is ending they SWIM back to the mainland, with : > boats standing by to help stragglers. They are in much better shape than : > in the spring :-) : I should add that the deer walk and swim, not the Sami :-) : > There's also reindeer herding in the southern mountains, less movement but : > they have to be watched all the time so they don't join the herds of wild : > reindeer. I figured that, as swimming would make it difficult to keep the reindeer in line:-) Also I figued the boats coudl be used by the herders as well. Wendy |
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Opinion piece on artificial sweeteners
In article >,
Trawley Trash > wrote: > On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 23:09:58 -0700 > Billy > wrote: > > > First, it was the consumption of virgin top soil. More recently, the > > protein that envelops us comes from the Fritz Haber Process > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haber_process> > > and is responsible for the last 4 billion people to join the human > > race. > > OK. The Haber process produces ammonia that can then be used > as fertilizer. Other than the need to balance this with other > nutrients, I don't see a problem here. > > The earth is supporting 7 billion at the moment, and I don't > see any reason why it can't support 20 billion. I think it's a vision problem. <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecological_footprint > The ecological footprint is a measure of human demand on the Earth's ecosystems. It is a standardized measure of demand for natural capital that may be contrasted with the planet's ecological capacity to regenerate. For 2007, humanity's total ecological footprint was estimated at 1.5 planet Earths; that is, humanity uses ecological services 1.5 times as quickly as Earth can renew them. - The nitrogen from the Haber Process ends up as NH3 ---> consumed by plants & bugs ---> amino acids --> protein --> enzymes (including photosynthesis) ---> plants which we eat, or fed to animals that we eat ----> human protein. Top soil, stripped of its organic components requires increasing amounts of NH3 to maintain yields. The stripped top soil doesn't have tilth, and blows away, and washes away, <http://www.ext.colostate.edu/mg/gardennotes/212.html> GMOs have not increased yields, or nutrition. The worlds population wold be much smaller without the Haber process. With the Haber Process we are consuming 40-75% of energy intake as carbohydrates, as opposed to 22 to 40%, back in the Paleolithic days. Celiac disease, and lactose intolerance show that Homo sapiens are still adapting to our new diet. -- Palestinian Child Detained <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzSzH38jYcg> Remember Rachel Corrie <http://www.rachelcorrie.org/> Welcome to the New America. <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA736oK9FPg> |
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Opinion piece on artificial sweeteners
On 07/27/2013 02:04 PM, W. Baker wrote:
> Ever eat wild huckleberries in the woods of Maine? Jus wonderful! > > Wendy No. I wonder if I could grow or buy them? |
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Opinion piece on artificial sweeteners
On 07/28/2013 10:07 AM, Bjørn Steensrud wrote:
> Bjørn Steensrud wrote: > >> W. Baker wrote: >> >> [massive snippage] >> >>> Do the Lapps still move with the reindeer herds >>> in Northern Scandinavia? all ancient practices. >>> >>> Wendy >> >> They do. In the northernmost part of Norway, they walk from the inland >> plain to the coast, freighted by boats/small ships to the islands to graze >> all summer. When summer is ending they SWIM back to the mainland, with >> boats standing by to help stragglers. They are in much better shape than >> in the spring :-) > > I should add that the deer walk and swim, not the Sami :-) > > >> There's also reindeer herding in the southern mountains, less movement but >> they have to be watched all the time so they don't join the herds of wild >> reindeer. > Hi Bjørn, We call them Caribou here (Alaska). Are they good eating? -T |
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Opinion piece on artificial sweeteners
On 07/27/2013 11:09 PM, Billy wrote:
>> >That is where all those vegetarians are more >> >healthy studies comes from. Real/strict vegi's are > Why not just call them Vegans? Hi Billy, Vegans are a flavor of strict vegetarian. I do believe they have rules about what you can wear as well as what up can eat. I intended to encompass all strict vegetarians, including those that won't walk on lawns for fear of stepping on and killing bugs. -T Chuckle, chuckle. I wonder if they eat figs? |
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Opinion piece on artificial sweeteners
Todd wrote:
> On 07/28/2013 10:07 AM, Bjørn Steensrud wrote: >> Bjørn Steensrud wrote: >> >>> W. Baker wrote: >>> >>> [massive snippage] >>> >>>> Do the Lapps still move with the reindeer herds >>>> in Northern Scandinavia? all ancient practices. >>>> >>>> Wendy >>> >>> They do. In the northernmost part of Norway, they walk from the inland >>> plain to the coast, freighted by boats/small ships to the islands to >>> graze all summer. When summer is ending they SWIM back to the mainland, >>> with boats standing by to help stragglers. They are in much better shape >>> than in the spring :-) >> >> I should add that the deer walk and swim, not the Sami :-) >> >> >>> There's also reindeer herding in the southern mountains, less movement >>> but they have to be watched all the time so they don't join the herds of >>> wild reindeer. >> > > Hi Bjørn, > > We call them Caribou here (Alaska). Are they good eating? > > -T Excellent eating! In stores I can find packs of frozen "shavings" - small slices - of reindeer meat. Saute chopped onions, fry the thawed meat in oil, add cream for a sauce. Crushed juniper berries for a spice, in addition to s&p of course. (S)he who has an oven could try a roast - just treat it as venison. Caribou and reindeer are classified as different subspecies of Rangifer tarandus - google "caribou vs reindeer", nice article. |
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Opinion piece on artificial sweeteners
On 07/28/2013 10:25 PM, Bjørn Steensrud wrote:
> Caribou and reindeer are classified as different subspecies of Rangifer > tarandus - google "caribou vs reindeer", nice article. Fascinating. Thank you! |
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Opinion piece on artificial sweeteners
On Sun, 28 Jul 2013 11:17:02 -0700
Billy > wrote: > In article >, > Trawley Trash > wrote: > > > On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 23:09:58 -0700 > > Billy > wrote: > > > > > First, it was the consumption of virgin top soil. More recently, > > > the protein that envelops us comes from the Fritz Haber Process > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haber_process> > > > and is responsible for the last 4 billion people to join the human > > > race. > > > > OK. The Haber process produces ammonia that can then be used > > as fertilizer. Other than the need to balance this with other > > nutrients, I don't see a problem here. > > > > The earth is supporting 7 billion at the moment, and I don't > > see any reason why it can't support 20 billion. > > I think it's a vision problem. > > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecological_footprint > > > The ecological footprint is a measure of human demand on the Earth's > ecosystems. It is a standardized measure of demand for natural > capital that may be contrasted with the planet's ecological capacity > to regenerate. For 2007, humanity's total ecological footprint was > estimated at 1.5 planet Earths; that is, humanity uses ecological > services 1.5 times as quickly as Earth can renew them. As an engineer I would want to look carefully at the claimed capacity limit(s) before I would accept this. I would guess we have been operating at 1.5 planet earths for several thousand years. This is what provides the pressure for technological advancement. We just keep getting better at utilizing and distributing the available resources. Just because something sounds like science doesn't mean it is sound. > The nitrogen from the Haber Process ends up as NH3 ---> consumed by > plants & bugs ---> amino acids --> protein --> enzymes (including > photosynthesis) ---> plants which we eat, or fed to animals that we > eat ----> human protein. > > Top soil, stripped of its organic components requires increasing > amounts of NH3 to maintain yields. The stripped top soil doesn't have > tilth, and blows away, and washes away, > <http://www.ext.colostate.edu/mg/gardennotes/212.html> > GMOs have not increased yields, or nutrition. As a write this forest fires are raging. Our small city in the desert is choking in smog. In addition to pollution topsoil topsoil is burning away. The federal government moved in and turned our state lands into national forests so they could "manage" them. Now they manage them by letting fires rage. > The worlds population wold be much smaller without the Haber process. > > With the Haber Process we are consuming 40-75% of energy intake as > carbohydrates, as opposed to 22 to 40%, back in the Paleolithic days. > Celiac disease, and lactose intolerance show that Homo sapiens are > still adapting to our new diet. This doesn't make any sense. Nitrogen is not needed to make carbohydrates. It is only found in protein. -- I'm Trawley Trash, and you haven't heard the last of me yet. |
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Opinion piece on artificial sweeteners
In article >,
Trawley Trash > wrote: > On Sun, 28 Jul 2013 11:17:02 -0700 > Billy > wrote: > > > In article >, > > Trawley Trash > wrote: > > > > > On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 23:09:58 -0700 > > > Billy > wrote: > > > > > > > First, it was the consumption of virgin top soil. More recently, > > > > the protein that envelops us comes from the Fritz Haber Process > > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haber_process> > > > > and is responsible for the last 4 billion people to join the human > > > > race. > > > > > > OK. The Haber process produces ammonia that can then be used > > > as fertilizer. Other than the need to balance this with other > > > nutrients, I don't see a problem here. > > > > > > The earth is supporting 7 billion at the moment, and I don't > > > see any reason why it can't support 20 billion. > > > > I think it's a vision problem. > > > > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecological_footprint > > > > > The ecological footprint is a measure of human demand on the Earth's > > ecosystems. It is a standardized measure of demand for natural > > capital that may be contrasted with the planet's ecological capacity > > to regenerate. For 2007, humanity's total ecological footprint was > > estimated at 1.5 planet Earths; that is, humanity uses ecological > > services 1.5 times as quickly as Earth can renew them. > > As an engineer I would want to look carefully at the claimed capacity > limit(s) before I would accept this. > I would guess we have been operating at 1.5 planet earths for > several thousand years. Your guess vs <http://www.footprintnetwork.org/en/i...print_science_ introduction/> ? > This is what provides the pressure > for technological advancement. We just keep getting better > at utilizing and distributing the available resources. > Just because something sounds like science doesn't mean it is > sound. Doesn't even sound like it. The ozone was disappearing, there was no better idea, so we reduced our use of CFCs and the Ozone Hole got better. Acid rain was killing forests, and damaging crops, there was no better idea, so we cleaned up smoke stacks and then the acid diminished. Until you have a better idea, I'd say we stop over utilizing our environment. Wadda ya think? > > > The nitrogen from the Haber Process ends up as NH3 ---> consumed by > > plants & bugs ---> amino acids --> protein --> enzymes (including > > photosynthesis) ---> plants which we eat, or fed to animals that we > > eat ----> human protein. > > > > Top soil, stripped of its organic components requires increasing > > amounts of NH3 to maintain yields. The stripped top soil doesn't have > > tilth, and blows away, and washes away, > > <http://www.ext.colostate.edu/mg/gardennotes/212.html> > > GMOs have not increased yields, or nutrition. > > As a write this forest fires are raging. Our small city > in the desert is choking in smog. In addition to pollution topsoil > topsoil is burning away. Not likely yet, but come the rainy season, it could be washed away without vegetation to hold it. > The federal government moved in > and turned our state lands into national forests so they could > "manage" them. Now they manage them by letting fires rage. Noe you're starting to sound like a "Tea Bagger" with a conspiracy theory. Are you saying that the government is encouraging the fire, that threatens local communities like Big Creek or Huntington Lake, oooor since the fire is in steep, rugged, inaccessible terrain, they are burning off dry fuel that has accumulated over the years from fire suppression? Did the government set the fire, too? > > > The worlds population wold be much smaller without the Haber process. > > > > With the Haber Process we are consuming 40-75% of energy intake as > > carbohydrates, as opposed to 22 to 40%, back in the Paleolithic days. > > Celiac disease, and lactose intolerance show that Homo sapiens are > > still adapting to our new diet. > > This doesn't make any sense. Nitrogen is not needed to make > carbohydrates. It is only found in protein. What do you engineer? Ever hear of DNA? Look at diagrams of adenine, guanine, cytosine, and thymine. Where does all that nitrogen come from? <http://www.biologie.uni-hamburg.de/b-online/e17/17e.htm> Most proteins are enzymes that came into being rather early in evolution; this means that all cells, bacteria, animal and plant cells, have the same repertoire of enzymes. Everything summarized by the term primary metabolism, i.e. glycolysis, citric acid cycle, amino acid synthesis, carbohydrate synthesis, lipid and nucleotide synthesis is controlled by a set of enzymes that differ only slightly from one group of organism to another. Even the sweet spot in chlorophyll (where the sugars are made) is surrounded by NH3s, not to mention the enzymes (protein) that construct starch, and cellulose from those sugars. When you look at a bag of fertilizer it will give you three numbers, like 5-1-1. That stands for 5% nitrogen, 1% Phosphorous, 1% Potassium. Your seed may germinate, but the plant isn't going anywhere without nitrogen for crucial enzymes. -- Palestinian Child Detained <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzSzH38jYcg> Remember Rachel Corrie <http://www.rachelcorrie.org/> Welcome to the New America. <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA736oK9FPg> |
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Opinion piece on artificial sweeteners
On Mon, 29 Jul 2013 17:29:04 -0700, Trawley Trash
> wrote: > As a write this forest fires are raging. Our small city > in the desert is choking in smog. In addition to pollution topsoil > topsoil is burning away. The federal government moved in > and turned our state lands into national forests so they could > "manage" them. Now they manage them by letting fires rage. Idiot liar. |
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Opinion piece on artificial sweeteners
On 07/29/2013 05:29 PM, Trawley Trash wrote:
> As a write this forest fires are raging. Our small city > in the desert is choking in smog. In addition to pollution topsoil > topsoil is burning away. The federal government moved in > and turned our state lands into national forests so they could > "manage" them. Now they manage them by letting fires rage. Hi Trawley, In a properly managed forest, fires should only burn a few inches on the ground. A raging fire means the forest was managed very badly. The fed did the same thing out here in Nevada. Every year Nevada's range land (BLM, Bureau of Land Management) lights on fire. This never happened when our ranchers were allowed to manage the lands. They knew not to let the fuel build up to the point were we had wild fires every year. And, we never had them! I can only shake my head at the loss of fortune and human lives fighting the darned things. You see out here in Nevada, we have these dedicated public servants that keep the fuel down. They are called cows and sheep. And, when they are done doing their public service, WE GET THE EAT THEM! Someone needs to tell the fed it is much cheaper to get paid by someone to graze their animals, then it is spend money putting out fires. The poor dears think they are saving food for the local wildlife by restricting grazing. The local wildlife was always just fine under local control. I actually heard of a study showing how much more wildlife there is when ranchers take over the land. Kit Carson's own journals state he almost starved to death out here, due to lack of critters to shoot when he first arrived here (before ranchers). -T |
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Opinion piece on artificial sweeteners
On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 16:23:22 -0700
Billy > wrote: > In article >, > Trawley Trash > wrote: > > > On Sun, 28 Jul 2013 11:17:02 -0700 > > Billy > wrote: > > > > > In article >, > > > Trawley Trash > wrote: > > > > > > > On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 23:09:58 -0700 > > > > Billy > wrote: > > > > > > > > > First, it was the consumption of virgin top soil. More > > > > > recently, the protein that envelops us comes from the Fritz > > > > > Haber Process <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haber_process> > > > > > and is responsible for the last 4 billion people to join the > > > > > human race. > > > > > > > > OK. The Haber process produces ammonia that can then be used > > > > as fertilizer. Other than the need to balance this with other > > > > nutrients, I don't see a problem here. > > > > > > > > The earth is supporting 7 billion at the moment, and I don't > > > > see any reason why it can't support 20 billion. > > > > > > I think it's a vision problem. > > > > > > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecological_footprint > > > > > > > The ecological footprint is a measure of human demand on the > > > Earth's ecosystems. It is a standardized measure of demand for > > > natural capital that may be contrasted with the planet's > > > ecological capacity to regenerate. For 2007, humanity's total > > > ecological footprint was estimated at 1.5 planet Earths; that is, > > > humanity uses ecological services 1.5 times as quickly as Earth > > > can renew them. > > > > As an engineer I would want to look carefully at the claimed > > capacity limit(s) before I would accept this. > > I would guess we have been operating at 1.5 planet earths for > > several thousand years. > > Your guess vs > <http://www.footprintnetwork.org/en/i...print_science_ > introduction/> ? Sorry. I've seen too many wild predictions like this. Not even going to read your link. If you believe past projections, we must surely be dead by now. Yet we always find ways to cope. Human ingenuity is not predictable by this kind of analysis. We do need to keep track of the problems so that we can act as necessary. > > This is what provides the pressure > > for technological advancement. We just keep getting better > > at utilizing and distributing the available resources. > > Just because something sounds like science doesn't mean it is > > sound. > Doesn't even sound like it. The ozone was disappearing, there was no > better idea, so we reduced our use of CFCs and the Ozone Hole got > better. Acid rain was killing forests, and damaging crops, there was > no better idea, so we cleaned up smoke stacks and then the acid > diminished. Until you have a better idea, I'd say we stop over > utilizing our environment. Wadda ya think? How about recognizing that forest fires cause massive air pollution. > > > The nitrogen from the Haber Process ends up as NH3 ---> consumed > > > by plants & bugs ---> amino acids --> protein --> enzymes > > > (including photosynthesis) ---> plants which we eat, or fed to > > > animals that we eat ----> human protein. > > > > > > Top soil, stripped of its organic components requires increasing > > > amounts of NH3 to maintain yields. The stripped top soil doesn't > > > have tilth, and blows away, and washes away, > > > <http://www.ext.colostate.edu/mg/gardennotes/212.html> > > > GMOs have not increased yields, or nutrition. > > > > As a write this forest fires are raging. Our small city > > in the desert is choking in smog. In addition to pollution > > topsoil topsoil is burning away. > Not likely yet, but come the rainy season, it could be washed away > without vegetation to hold it. That organic matter that goes up in smoke will decay into topsoil. So that is future topsoil vanishing. Given the right conditions and millions of years it might even decay into fossil fuel. And even the existing topsoil burns when the fire gets hot enough. > > The federal government moved in > > and turned our state lands into national forests so they could > > "manage" them. Now they manage them by letting fires rage. > Noe you're starting to sound like a "Tea Bagger" with a conspiracy > theory. Are you saying that the government is encouraging the fire, > that threatens local communities like Big Creek or Huntington Lake, > oooor since the fire is in steep, rugged, inaccessible terrain, they > are burning off dry fuel that has accumulated over the years from > fire suppression? Did the government set the fire, too? There is a difference between conspiracy and mismanagement. > > > The worlds population wold be much smaller without the Haber > > > process. > > > > > > With the Haber Process we are consuming 40-75% of energy intake > > > as carbohydrates, as opposed to 22 to 40%, back in the > > > Paleolithic days. Celiac disease, and lactose intolerance show > > > that Homo sapiens are still adapting to our new diet. > > > > This doesn't make any sense. Nitrogen is not needed to make > > carbohydrates. It is only found in protein. > > What do you engineer? > > Ever hear of DNA? Look at diagrams of adenine, guanine, cytosine, and > thymine. Where does all that nitrogen come from? Clue: adenine, guanine, cytosine, and thymine are not carbohydrates. > <http://www.biologie.uni-hamburg.de/b-online/e17/17e.htm> > Most proteins are enzymes that came into being rather early in > evolution; this means that all cells, bacteria, animal and plant > cells, have the same repertoire of enzymes. Everything summarized by > the term primary metabolism, i.e. glycolysis, citric acid cycle, > amino acid synthesis, carbohydrate synthesis, lipid and nucleotide > synthesis is controlled by a set of enzymes that differ only slightly > from one group of organism to another. > > Even the sweet spot in chlorophyll (where the sugars are made) is > surrounded by NH3s, not to mention the enzymes (protein) that > construct starch, and cellulose from those sugars. > > > When you look at a bag of fertilizer it will give you three numbers, > like 5-1-1. That stands for 5% nitrogen, 1% Phosphorous, 1% Potassium. > Your seed may germinate, but the plant isn't going anywhere without > nitrogen for crucial enzymes. It is more complicated than that. Every plant has different requirements. Some are better off with less nitrogen. -- I'm Trawley Trash, and you haven't heard the last of me yet. |
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Opinion piece on artificial sweeteners
On Thu, 01 Aug 2013 12:01:02 -0500
DonOpple0paad > wrote: > On Mon, 29 Jul 2013 17:29:04 -0700, Trawley Trash > > wrote: > > > As a write this forest fires are raging. Our small city > > in the desert is choking in smog. In addition to pollution topsoil > > topsoil is burning away. The federal government moved in > > and turned our state lands into national forests so they could > > "manage" them. Now they manage them by letting fires rage. > > > Idiot liar. > They did the same thing in California. The whole central valley was choking in smoke when I left. The fires went on and on. The air pollution triggers allergies that raise my BG. Elitist Back Easters simply don't care what happens to us in the west. They think it should all be vacant land, and they would rather smoke us out than listen to our complaints. -- I'm Trawley Trash, and you haven't heard the last of me yet. |
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Opinion piece on artificial sweeteners
In article >,
Trawley Trash > wrote: > On Thu, 01 Aug 2013 12:01:02 -0500 > DonOpple0paad > wrote: > > > On Mon, 29 Jul 2013 17:29:04 -0700, Trawley Trash > > > wrote: > > > > > As a write this forest fires are raging. Our small city > > > in the desert is choking in smog. In addition to pollution topsoil > > > topsoil is burning away. The federal government moved in > > > and turned our state lands into national forests so they could > > > "manage" them. Now they manage them by letting fires rage. > > > > > > Idiot liar. > > > > They did the same thing in California. The whole central > valley was choking in smoke when I left. The fires went > on and on. The air pollution triggers allergies that > raise my BG. > > Elitist Back Easters simply don't care what happens to > us in the west. They think it should all be vacant > land, and they would rather smoke us out than listen > to our complaints. Troll alert. -- Palestinian Child Detained <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzSzH38jYcg> Remember Rachel Corrie <http://www.rachelcorrie.org/> Welcome to the New America. <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA736oK9FPg> |
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Opinion piece on artificial sweeteners
On 08/01/2013 01:27 PM, Trawley Trash wrote:
> They did the same thing in California. The whole central > valley was choking in smoke when I left. The fires went > on and on. The air pollution triggers allergies that > raise my BG. > > Elitist Back Easters simply don't care what happens to > us in the west. They think it should all be vacant > land, and they would rather smoke us out than listen > to our complaints. Hi Trawley, Here is Nevada, we basically have two seasons: Run Off and Fishing season. Also, Winter and Fire Season. Sometimes, at least half of our summer days are filled with smoke. (So, far, so good this season, just one big one in the Pinenuts, but it mostly blew into Carson City.) The winters are a nightmare, with any number of our neighbors and their old style, ultra polluting, wood burning stoves. We call it throwing another tire in the fire, as they smoke and smell so bad. Very bad on my wife's breathing. (The new stoves are just fine. And, they are eventually replacing the old ones, slowly but surely.) We have experimented with various air cleaners/filters. What an absolute joke. We finally found one that is scary good at filtering air. Sometimes we have to leave it blowing over her in the night (smoke does seep in). It should help you, but it is expensive: http://austinair.com/ -T Them East Coaster need to give us back our land, so we can manage it without all these stupid fires. |
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Opinion piece on artificial sweeteners
On Thu, 1 Aug 2013 13:27:56 -0700, Trawley Trash
> wrote: >On Thu, 01 Aug 2013 12:01:02 -0500 >DonOpple0paad > wrote: > >> On Mon, 29 Jul 2013 17:29:04 -0700, Trawley Trash >> > wrote: >> >> > As a write this forest fires are raging. Our small city >> > in the desert is choking in smog. In addition to pollution topsoil >> > topsoil is burning away. The federal government moved in >> > and turned our state lands into national forests so they could >> > "manage" them. Now they manage them by letting fires rage. >> >> >> Idiot liar. >> > > They did the same thing in California. The whole central > valley was choking in smoke when I left. The fires went > on and on. The air pollution triggers allergies that > raise my BG. > > Elitist Back Easters simply don't care what happens to > us in the west. They think it should all be vacant > land, and they would rather smoke us out than listen > to our complaints. Wow, you've discovered the master plan. They will be coming for you soon. |
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Opinion piece on artificial sweeteners
On Thu, 01 Aug 2013 23:15:11 -0700
Billy > wrote: > > Elitist Back Easters simply don't care what happens to > > us in the west. They think it should all be vacant > > land, and they would rather smoke us out than listen > > to our complaints. > > Troll alert. I guess I smoked you out! -- I'm Trawley Trash, and you haven't heard the last of me yet. |
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