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Old 18-03-2013, 05:52 PM posted to alt.food.diabetic
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Default What do you non-insulin T2's eat for breakfast?

In article , Todd
wrote:

In my opinion, buy organic and CSA (community supported
agriculture) whenever possible. And find a friend that hunts.

I have a customer that got a moose the year before and it was
more than his family could eat. What a treat! An elk the year
before that. (I hate venison.)


My version of this is to have an organic vegetable garden and to buy
organic vegetables, free-range organic eggs, and free-range grass fed
meat (domestic and wild) as much as possible. I also cook a lot, rarely
if ever buy processed food, and don't eat out much.

PP
--
"What you fail to understand is that criticising established authority by means
of argument and evidence is a crucial aspect of how science works."
- Chris Malcolm

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Old 18-03-2013, 07:55 PM posted to alt.food.diabetic
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Default What do you non-insulin T2's eat for breakfast?

On 03/18/2013 09:52 AM, Peppermint Patootie wrote:
In article , Todd
wrote:

In my opinion, buy organic and CSA (community supported
agriculture) whenever possible. And find a friend that hunts.

I have a customer that got a moose the year before and it was
more than his family could eat. What a treat! An elk the year
before that. (I hate venison.)


My version of this is to have an organic vegetable garden and to buy
organic vegetables, free-range organic eggs, and free-range grass fed
meat (domestic and wild) as much as possible. I also cook a lot, rarely
if ever buy processed food, and don't eat out much.

PP


Hi Peppermint,

100% agree.

Processed food will be the death of us all. Not real food,
but food like substances.

I stink as a farmer. But, that does not stop me from trying.
I was turning my soil over to kill the encroaching grass
in my organic garden last week. The soil looked and felt
better than I remember. So things are looking up.

I am so looking forward to fresh picked zucchini! Winter
is driving me nuts.

-T
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Old 18-03-2013, 09:23 PM posted to alt.food.diabetic
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Default What do you non-insulin T2's eat for breakfast?

On 03/18/2013 12:21 AM, Julie Bove wrote:
"Todd" wrote in message
...
On 03/17/2013 09:29 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
What's unnatural? Are you calling vegetarianism unnatural?


Yes. Our eyes on the front of our heads, not the sides.
We can not eat grass. We are born virtually blind and
helpless. We can not run 30 minutes after being born.
We do not have two stomaches. Yada, Yada, Yada.


We can eat grass.


If you mean can we swallow grass, then yes. That is not what I meant.
We can not break down the cellulose like a real herbivore. We
need two stomaches for that.

One of my customers bought bags of grass seed on a
regular basis to be used for sprouts. He ate them.


Sprouts and full grown grass are two different things. We can
eat (digest) sprouts. They haven't developed the cellulose
to the point where they are just bran to us.

Granted, most people
don't eat grass but we could.


Yes we could swallow it. It is called "bran" to an omnivore.
We can't digest it.

And no, we don't have two stomachs. Are you
comparing us to cows?


Cow have two stomachs, so they can digest cellulose. We
can't. You missed the point.

Because cows can eat corn too.


True. And it is really bad for them. It gives them ulcers [1]
[2] [3]. It is unnatural to feed them corn. That is why feed
lots have to race to fatten up cows before they kill them.
We are not carrion eaters.

Are you saying that
we can't eat corn?


We can. We shouldn't. It is like eating pure sugar. I
believed that stupid food pyramid and their healthy
carbohydrates monkey shine. I truly believe it is what
burned out my beta cells. I know we disagree on this subject.

These days cows eat all sorts of things. Well, some
cows anyway.


They use to feed dead cows back to cows. Gross. Cows are
not cannibals. Gave them Mad Cow disease. Hmmm.
Really thought that one out really well, didn't they.


We are "omnivores", like bears. Except that bears are
carrion eaters, unless you think hot dogs are carrion,
then we are just like bears.


No we're not.


Both humans and bears are omnivores. Neither one of us
are herbivores as neither one of us can digest grass
(cellulose). I am not sure what you are disagreeing with.

Their are four basic type of mammals:
herbivores
omnivores
carnivores
carrion eaters

We and bears are omnivores. Bears are also carrion eaters.
Unless you think hot dogs are carrion, then ...


Just because we *can* eat things doesn't mean that we should.


100% agree.


By the way, lack of Acetyl L-Carnitine causes neuropathy.
See what I am getting at?

Nope. Except that you seem very misguided on a lot of things.


Play nice with the other children in the sand box.

Cite for
lack of Acetyl L-Carnitine causing neuropathy?


Absolutely! [4] [5] Could this have been a contributing
factor to your neuropathy? Vegetarianism causes all kinds
of nerve damage if you are not careful to supplement
and/or cheat on your diet (or eat figs). [6] [7] [8] [9]


Vegetarianism is unnatural. We are not cows or horses.


It's not unnatural for me or all of the other vegetarians and vegans on the
face of this earth.


Oh yes, it is unnatural. So is space travel. It is up to the beholder
to judge whether that is a good thing or a bad thing. I am not
trying to offend you.

If you are a strict, true vegetarian, meaning you do not consume
any animal nutrition (insects or meat [and fish is meat]) or use
science to synthesize what you are missing, you will get very ill and
risk death. I would posit anything that hurts someone is a bad thing.

Some unnatural things are not bad things, like taking metformin.

We can survive as pure carnivores, as do the Inuits [11], but we can
not survive as pure vegetarians.

That being said, very few vegetarians really are. They are just
picky eaters. They eats bugs (figs [12] and bugs in their grains),
milk, eggs, fish, chicken and on and so forth.

"Some" vegetarians do it to condescend. Makes them feel good about
themselves without actually making the effort of being good people.
Most vegetarians I know are doing it for their health -- to each his
own. Hope they supplement and/or cheat on their diet. A lot of
the meat we consume (not me) is pretty unhealthy. Not because
meat is unhealthy, it is not, but because of what is in the meat
and the unhealthy conditions it is raised under.


What's a fat suite?


It is a rubber suite that makes you look fat. Pretty
realistic looking too. Lots of bigotry against fat people
out there.


Those fat suits that I have seen make the person look grossly obese. I have
never been grossly obese. I have been fat. I am fat. I have been thin. I
have been very thin. Some of the most cruel remarks that people made to and
about me came about when I was thin.


Back before the television, I have seen adds for weight gain products
that made big fun of skinny girls [13]. They implied a skinny girl
could not get married, among other things.

As a fat person, I have only ever had
one person make comments about my weight. That person makes nasty comments
to and about any person who is overweight. He himself is very overweight.
More overweight than I am. This person has a lot of other issues and isn't
the most socially adept person. So his comments to me are meaningless.


The proper response to folks like that is "Bite Me!" Ignore people
like that.


Yes, I have seen those shows on TV and read magazine articles and such about
how the people in the fat suits were mistreated. But it could also be that
they were carrying themselves differently than normal. I just don't know.


Trust me, is because they are fat.

I see plenty of fat people around here. People who are fatter than me.
I've yet to hear anyone make a disparaging comment about them.


Keep those friends!


My dad was and is fat. He had a very good career. Went far up in the
company. His weight didn't affect that at all.


There is hope. Females suffer from fat bigotry far worse than
men. And since dieting makes you fat [10], guess what
happens to women when they give into to social pressure
and diet? (Should that have been a question mark or a period?)

Men suffer from being "success objects".

Our goal in society should be to judge people based on the
strength of their character. Not what they look like.

-T


1) http://vet.sagepub.com/content/18/2/143.full.pdf

2) http://www.johnrobbins.info/blog/grass-fed-beef/

3)
http://www.ivis.org/proceedings/wbc/...sionsimple.pdf

4)
http://www.naturalmedicinejournal.co...n=2&article=77

5) https://www.google.com/Acetyl+L-Carnitine+neuropathy

6) http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/foodnut/09324.html

7) http://www.medicinenet.com/vegetaria...diet/page2.htm

8) http://www.drnickcampos.com/health-n...deficiency.htm

9)
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/ar...-veganism.aspx

10) http://www.alternet.org/story/91890/..._makes_you_fat

11)
http://www.theiflife.com/the-inuit-p...se-and-cancer/

12) http://science.howstuffworks.com/zoo...s/fig-wasp.htm

13) http://www.retronaut.com/2011/11/vin...ight-gain-ads/
  #64 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 18-03-2013, 10:35 PM posted to alt.food.diabetic
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Posts: 44,964
Default What do you non-insulin T2's eat for breakfast?


"Todd" wrote in message
...
On 03/18/2013 12:21 AM, Julie Bove wrote:
"Todd" wrote in message
...
On 03/17/2013 09:29 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
What's unnatural? Are you calling vegetarianism unnatural?

Yes. Our eyes on the front of our heads, not the sides.
We can not eat grass. We are born virtually blind and
helpless. We can not run 30 minutes after being born.
We do not have two stomaches. Yada, Yada, Yada.


We can eat grass.


If you mean can we swallow grass, then yes. That is not what I meant.
We can not break down the cellulose like a real herbivore. We
need two stomaches for that.

One of my customers bought bags of grass seed on a
regular basis to be used for sprouts. He ate them.


Sprouts and full grown grass are two different things. We can
eat (digest) sprouts. They haven't developed the cellulose
to the point where they are just bran to us.

Granted, most people
don't eat grass but we could.


Yes we could swallow it. It is called "bran" to an omnivore.
We can't digest it.

And no, we don't have two stomachs. Are you
comparing us to cows?


Cow have two stomachs, so they can digest cellulose. We
can't. You missed the point.


You do know that cellulose is added to a lot of food. Right? And what does
that have to do with vegetarianism? It doesn't!

Because cows can eat corn too.


True. And it is really bad for them. It gives them ulcers [1]
[2] [3]. It is unnatural to feed them corn. That is why feed
lots have to race to fatten up cows before they kill them.
We are not carrion eaters.


Cite that corn gives them ulcers? And we certainly can be carion eaters.
Ever watch Honey
Boo Boo? Seen those foreign films where the natives find a dead animal and
butcher it?

Are you saying that
we can't eat corn?


We can. We shouldn't. It is like eating pure sugar. I
believed that stupid food pyramid and their healthy
carbohydrates monkey shine. I truly believe it is what
burned out my beta cells. I know we disagree on this subject.


No. It's not like pure sugar at all. And yes, we very much do disagree.

These days cows eat all sorts of things. Well, some
cows anyway.


They use to feed dead cows back to cows. Gross. Cows are
not cannibals. Gave them Mad Cow disease. Hmmm.
Really thought that one out really well, didn't they.


Oh really? Cite for that, then! You make all these off the wall claims and
just expect us to belive what you say!

We are "omnivores", like bears. Except that bears are
carrion eaters, unless you think hot dogs are carrion,
then we are just like bears.


No we're not.


Both humans and bears are omnivores. Neither one of us
are herbivores as neither one of us can digest grass
(cellulose). I am not sure what you are disagreeing with.


Cite that the definition of an herbivore means digesting grass?

Their are four basic type of mammals:
herbivores
omnivores
carnivores
carrion eaters

We and bears are omnivores. Bears are also carrion eaters.
Unless you think hot dogs are carrion, then ...


I know what carion is and some humans do in fact eat it.

Just because we *can* eat things doesn't mean that we should.


100% agree.


By the way, lack of Acetyl L-Carnitine causes neuropathy.
See what I am getting at?

Nope. Except that you seem very misguided on a lot of things.


Play nice with the other children in the sand box.


Well, you're not really playing nice. Making all kinds of outlandish claims
as though they were fact.

Cite for
lack of Acetyl L-Carnitine causing neuropathy?


Absolutely! [4] [5] Could this have been a contributing
factor to your neuropathy? Vegetarianism causes all kinds
of nerve damage if you are not careful to supplement
and/or cheat on your diet (or eat figs). [6] [7] [8] [9]


That's not a cite. You put a quote from some place and didn't even
attribute to where it came from. I was a vegetarian for many years and had
no nerve damage. I know plenty of vegetarians now with no nerve damage.


Vegetarianism is unnatural. We are not cows or horses.


It's not unnatural for me or all of the other vegetarians and vegans on
the
face of this earth.


Oh yes, it is unnatural. So is space travel. It is up to the beholder
to judge whether that is a good thing or a bad thing. I am not
trying to offend you.


Now you say that space travel is unnatural? This is really getting
laughable. And you really are offending my sensibilities with all of this
clap trap.

If you are a strict, true vegetarian, meaning you do not consume
any animal nutrition (insects or meat [and fish is meat]) or use
science to synthesize what you are missing, you will get very ill and risk
death. I would posit anything that hurts someone is a bad thing.


Totally untrue! Just freaking totally!

Some unnatural things are not bad things, like taking metformin.

We can survive as pure carnivores, as do the Inuits [11], but we can
not survive as pure vegetarians.


We could not survive like the Intuits. Few people in this country would eat
what they ate. And it is not available to us.

That being said, very few vegetarians really are. They are just
picky eaters. They eats bugs (figs [12] and bugs in their grains),
milk, eggs, fish, chicken and on and so forth.


Nonsenese! Please, please quit your lying! Please! Vegetarians can eat
dairy and eggs. Vegans do not. Vegans do not use any animal products. Not
even leather. Vegetarians can use leather. Not all do.

"Some" vegetarians do it to condescend. Makes them feel good about
themselves without actually making the effort of being good people.
Most vegetarians I know are doing it for their health -- to each his own.
Hope they supplement and/or cheat on their diet. A lot of
the meat we consume (not me) is pretty unhealthy. Not because
meat is unhealthy, it is not, but because of what is in the meat
and the unhealthy conditions it is raised under.


You are really insulting a lot of people by saying that.

What's a fat suite?

It is a rubber suite that makes you look fat. Pretty
realistic looking too. Lots of bigotry against fat people
out there.


Those fat suits that I have seen make the person look grossly obese. I
have
never been grossly obese. I have been fat. I am fat. I have been thin.
I
have been very thin. Some of the most cruel remarks that people made to
and
about me came about when I was thin.


Back before the television, I have seen adds for weight gain products
that made big fun of skinny girls [13]. They implied a skinny girl
could not get married, among other things.


Uh huh.

As a fat person, I have only ever had
one person make comments about my weight. That person makes nasty
comments
to and about any person who is overweight. He himself is very
overweight.
More overweight than I am. This person has a lot of other issues and
isn't
the most socially adept person. So his comments to me are meaningless.


The proper response to folks like that is "Bite Me!" Ignore people
like that.


Uh huh.


Yes, I have seen those shows on TV and read magazine articles and such
about
how the people in the fat suits were mistreated. But it could also be
that
they were carrying themselves differently than normal. I just don't
know.


Trust me, is because they are fat.


No. I really don't think so.

I see plenty of fat people around here. People who are fatter than me.
I've yet to hear anyone make a disparaging comment about them.


Keep those friends!


My dad was and is fat. He had a very good career. Went far up in the
company. His weight didn't affect that at all.


There is hope. Females suffer from fat bigotry far worse than
men. And since dieting makes you fat [10], guess what
happens to women when they give into to social pressure
and diet? (Should that have been a question mark or a period?)


Oh good grief!

Men suffer from being "success objects".


Really good grief! Now you are insulting everyone and you yourself are
coming across as a bigot.

Our goal in society should be to judge people based on the
strength of their character. Not what they look like.


Uhhhhhhhhhhhhh... How about we don't judge them at all? Of course judging
is human nature too.


1) http://vet.sagepub.com/content/18/2/143.full.pdf


Something from 1981?

2) http://www.johnrobbins.info/blog/grass-fed-beef/


A blog?

3)
http://www.ivis.org/proceedings/wbc/...sionsimple.pdf

4)
http://www.naturalmedicinejournal.co...n=2&article=77


Something from 2004?

5) https://www.google.com/Acetyl+L-Carnitine+neuropathy


A Google search? Did that myself. No cite there said that lack of it
caused neuropathy. One cite said that it might.

6)
http://www.ivis.org/proceedings/wbc/...sionsimple.pdf

2004?

7) http://www.medicinenet.com/vegetaria...diet/page2.htm


Damn, Skippy! Your own cite proved you wrong there!

8) http://www.drnickcampos.com/health-n...deficiency.htm

We weren't talking about vitamin B deficiencies. And most vegans do know to
eat nutritional yeast to prevent that.
9)
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/ar...-veganism.aspx


A cite from a quack? Not even going to read that.

10) http://www.alternet.org/story/91890/..._makes_you_fat


2008.

11)
http://www.theiflife.com/the-inuit-p...se-and-cancer/


Not interested in that.

12)
http://science.howstuffworks.com/zoo...s/fig-wasp.htm


Okay...

13) http://www.retronaut.com/2011/11/vin...ight-gain-ads/


Okay...

You threw up a bunch of crap links, wasting my time. And not one thing
proves what you said about lack of L Carnitine causing neuropathy.


  #65 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 18-03-2013, 11:18 PM posted to alt.food.diabetic
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,390
Default What do you non-insulin T2's eat for breakfast?

Julie Bove wrote:

: "Todd" wrote in message
: ...
: On 03/18/2013 12:21 AM, Julie Bove wrote:
: "Todd" wrote in message
: ...
: On 03/17/2013 09:29 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
: What's unnatural? Are you calling vegetarianism unnatural?
:
: Yes. Our eyes on the front of our heads, not the sides.
: We can not eat grass. We are born virtually blind and
: helpless. We can not run 30 minutes after being born.
: We do not have two stomaches. Yada, Yada, Yada.
:
: We can eat grass.
:
: If you mean can we swallow grass, then yes. That is not what I meant.
: We can not break down the cellulose like a real herbivore. We
: need two stomaches for that.
:
: One of my customers bought bags of grass seed on a
: regular basis to be used for sprouts. He ate them.
:
: Sprouts and full grown grass are two different things. We can
: eat (digest) sprouts. They haven't developed the cellulose
: to the point where they are just bran to us.
:
: Granted, most people
: don't eat grass but we could.
:
: Yes we could swallow it. It is called "bran" to an omnivore.
: We can't digest it.
:
: And no, we don't have two stomachs. Are you
: comparing us to cows?
:
: Cow have two stomachs, so they can digest cellulose. We
: can't. You missed the point.

: You do know that cellulose is added to a lot of food. Right? And what does
: that have to do with vegetarianism? It doesn't!

: Because cows can eat corn too.
:
: True. And it is really bad for them. It gives them ulcers [1]
: [2] [3]. It is unnatural to feed them corn. That is why feed
: lots have to race to fatten up cows before they kill them.
: We are not carrion eaters.

: Cite that corn gives them ulcers? And we certainly can be carion eaters.
: Ever watch Honey
: Boo Boo? Seen those foreign films where the natives find a dead animal and
: butcher it?
:
: Are you saying that
: we can't eat corn?
:
: We can. We shouldn't. It is like eating pure sugar. I
: believed that stupid food pyramid and their healthy
: carbohydrates monkey shine. I truly believe it is what
: burned out my beta cells. I know we disagree on this subject.

: No. It's not like pure sugar at all. And yes, we very much do disagree.
:
: These days cows eat all sorts of things. Well, some
: cows anyway.
:
: They use to feed dead cows back to cows. Gross. Cows are
: not cannibals. Gave them Mad Cow disease. Hmmm.
: Really thought that one out really well, didn't they.

: Oh really? Cite for that, then! You make all these off the wall claims and
: just expect us to belive what you say!

: We are "omnivores", like bears. Except that bears are
: carrion eaters, unless you think hot dogs are carrion,
: then we are just like bears.
:
: No we're not.
:
: Both humans and bears are omnivores. Neither one of us
: are herbivores as neither one of us can digest grass
: (cellulose). I am not sure what you are disagreeing with.

: Cite that the definition of an herbivore means digesting grass?
:
: Their are four basic type of mammals:
: herbivores
: omnivores
: carnivores
: carrion eaters
:
: We and bears are omnivores. Bears are also carrion eaters.
: Unless you think hot dogs are carrion, then ...

: I know what carion is and some humans do in fact eat it.

: Just because we *can* eat things doesn't mean that we should.
:
: 100% agree.
:
:
: By the way, lack of Acetyl L-Carnitine causes neuropathy.
: See what I am getting at?
:
: Nope. Except that you seem very misguided on a lot of things.
:
: Play nice with the other children in the sand box.

: Well, you're not really playing nice. Making all kinds of outlandish claims
: as though they were fact.
:
: Cite for
: lack of Acetyl L-Carnitine causing neuropathy?
:
: Absolutely! [4] [5] Could this have been a contributing
: factor to your neuropathy? Vegetarianism causes all kinds
: of nerve damage if you are not careful to supplement
: and/or cheat on your diet (or eat figs). [6] [7] [8] [9]

: That's not a cite. You put a quote from some place and didn't even
: attribute to where it came from. I was a vegetarian for many years and had
: no nerve damage. I know plenty of vegetarians now with no nerve damage.
:
:
: Vegetarianism is unnatural. We are not cows or horses.
:
: It's not unnatural for me or all of the other vegetarians and vegans on
: the
: face of this earth.
:
: Oh yes, it is unnatural. So is space travel. It is up to the beholder
: to judge whether that is a good thing or a bad thing. I am not
: trying to offend you.

: Now you say that space travel is unnatural? This is really getting
: laughable. And you really are offending my sensibilities with all of this
: clap trap.
:
: If you are a strict, true vegetarian, meaning you do not consume
: any animal nutrition (insects or meat [and fish is meat]) or use
: science to synthesize what you are missing, you will get very ill and risk
: death. I would posit anything that hurts someone is a bad thing.

: Totally untrue! Just freaking totally!
:
: Some unnatural things are not bad things, like taking metformin.
:
: We can survive as pure carnivores, as do the Inuits [11], but we can
: not survive as pure vegetarians.

: We could not survive like the Intuits. Few people in this country would eat
: what they ate. And it is not available to us.
:
: That being said, very few vegetarians really are. They are just
: picky eaters. They eats bugs (figs [12] and bugs in their grains),
: milk, eggs, fish, chicken and on and so forth.

: Nonsenese! Please, please quit your lying! Please! Vegetarians can eat
: dairy and eggs. Vegans do not. Vegans do not use any animal products. Not
: even leather. Vegetarians can use leather. Not all do.
:
: "Some" vegetarians do it to condescend. Makes them feel good about
: themselves without actually making the effort of being good people.
: Most vegetarians I know are doing it for their health -- to each his own.
: Hope they supplement and/or cheat on their diet. A lot of
: the meat we consume (not me) is pretty unhealthy. Not because
: meat is unhealthy, it is not, but because of what is in the meat
: and the unhealthy conditions it is raised under.

: You are really insulting a lot of people by saying that.

: What's a fat suite?
:
: It is a rubber suite that makes you look fat. Pretty
: realistic looking too. Lots of bigotry against fat people
: out there.
:
: Those fat suits that I have seen make the person look grossly obese. I
: have
: never been grossly obese. I have been fat. I am fat. I have been thin.
: I
: have been very thin. Some of the most cruel remarks that people made to
: and
: about me came about when I was thin.
:
: Back before the television, I have seen adds for weight gain products
: that made big fun of skinny girls [13]. They implied a skinny girl
: could not get married, among other things.

: Uh huh.
:
: As a fat person, I have only ever had
: one person make comments about my weight. That person makes nasty
: comments
: to and about any person who is overweight. He himself is very
: overweight.
: More overweight than I am. This person has a lot of other issues and
: isn't
: the most socially adept person. So his comments to me are meaningless.
:
: The proper response to folks like that is "Bite Me!" Ignore people
: like that.

: Uh huh.
:
:
: Yes, I have seen those shows on TV and read magazine articles and such
: about
: how the people in the fat suits were mistreated. But it could also be
: that
: they were carrying themselves differently than normal. I just don't
: know.
:
: Trust me, is because they are fat.

: No. I really don't think so.
:
: I see plenty of fat people around here. People who are fatter than me.
: I've yet to hear anyone make a disparaging comment about them.
:
: Keep those friends!

: My dad was and is fat. He had a very good career. Went far up in the
: company. His weight didn't affect that at all.
:
: There is hope. Females suffer from fat bigotry far worse than
: men. And since dieting makes you fat [10], guess what
: happens to women when they give into to social pressure
: and diet? (Should that have been a question mark or a period?)

: Oh good grief!
:
: Men suffer from being "success objects".

: Really good grief! Now you are insulting everyone and you yourself are
: coming across as a bigot.
:
: Our goal in society should be to judge people based on the
: strength of their character. Not what they look like.

: Uhhhhhhhhhhhhh... How about we don't judge them at all? Of course judging
: is human nature too.


: 1) http://vet.sagepub.com/content/18/2/143.full.pdf

: Something from 1981?
:
: 2) http://www.johnrobbins.info/blog/grass-fed-beef/

: A blog?
:
: 3)
: http://www.ivis.org/proceedings/wbc/...sionsimple.pdf
:
: 4)
: http://www.naturalmedicinejournal.co...n=2&article=77

: Something from 2004?
:
: 5) https://www.google.com/Acetyl+L-Carnitine+neuropathy

: A Google search? Did that myself. No cite there said that lack of it
: caused neuropathy. One cite said that it might.
:
: 6)
: http://www.ivis.org/proceedings/wbc/...sionsimple.pdf
:
: 2004?

: 7) http://www.medicinenet.com/vegetaria...diet/page2.htm

: Damn, Skippy! Your own cite proved you wrong there!
:
: 8) http://www.drnickcampos.com/health-n...deficiency.htm
:
: We weren't talking about vitamin B deficiencies. And most vegans do know to
: eat nutritional yeast to prevent that.
: 9)
: http://articles.mercola.com/sites/ar...-veganism.aspx

: A cite from a quack? Not even going to read that.
:
: 10) http://www.alternet.org/story/91890/..._makes_you_fat

: 2008.
:
: 11)
: http://www.theiflife.com/the-inuit-p...se-and-cancer/

: Not interested in that.
:
: 12)
: http://science.howstuffworks.com/zoo...s/fig-wasp.htm

: Okay...
:
: 13) http://www.retronaut.com/2011/11/vin...ight-gain-ads/

: Okay...

: You threw up a bunch of crap links, wasting my time. And not one thing
: proves what you said about lack of L Carnitine causing neuropathy.




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Old 18-03-2013, 11:56 PM posted to alt.food.diabetic
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Default What do you non-insulin T2's eat for breakfast?

On 03/18/2013 02:35 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
"Todd" wrote in message


Cow have two stomachs, so they can digest cellulose. We
can't. You missed the point.


You do know that cellulose is added to a lot of food. Right? And what does
that have to do with vegetarianism? It doesn't!


"cellulose" is called "bran" in humans. They derive no nutritious
from. Grass is cellulose.


Because cows can eat corn too.


True. And it is really bad for them. It gives them ulcers [1]
[2] [3]. It is unnatural to feed them corn. That is why feed
lots have to race to fatten up cows before they kill them.
We are not carrion eaters.


Cite that corn gives them ulcers?


I already did. That was the "[2] [3]" in my sentence.

And we certainly can be carion eaters.
Ever watch Honey Boo Boo?


No

Seen those foreign films where the natives find a dead animal and
butcher it?


Oh that can't be good. I have heard of American Indians that
will leave a dead diseased animal to rot.


Are you saying that
we can't eat corn?


We can. We shouldn't. It is like eating pure sugar. I
believed that stupid food pyramid and their healthy
carbohydrates monkey shine. I truly believe it is what
burned out my beta cells. I know we disagree on this subject.


No. It's not like pure sugar at all. And yes, we very much do disagree.


Corn:

http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/carbcounts/a/corn.htm

Glycemic Index for Corn Glycemic index studies of
corn report averages of anywhere from 37 to 62.
An average GI of 54 is commonly used.

Table sugar:

http://www.sugar-and-sweetener-guide...weeteners.html

Sucrose Sugar 65




These days cows eat all sorts of things. Well, some
cows anyway.


They use to feed dead cows back to cows. Gross. Cows are
not cannibals. Gave them Mad Cow disease. Hmmm.
Really thought that one out really well, didn't they.


Oh really? Cite for that, then! You make all these off the wall claims and
just expect us to belive what you say!


Not off the wall at all. I had 13 cites in the last letter
I wrote you. Missed this one. Sorry.

http://praisemoves.com/2012/04/cattl...d-cow-disease/



We are "omnivores", like bears. Except that bears are
carrion eaters, unless you think hot dogs are carrion,
then we are just like bears.

No we're not.


Both humans and bears are omnivores. Neither one of us
are herbivores as neither one of us can digest grass
(cellulose). I am not sure what you are disagreeing with.


Cite that the definition of an herbivore means digesting grass?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbivore

Sorry I did not cite this as I thought you took biology in
college.



Their are four basic type of mammals:
herbivores
omnivores
carnivores
carrion eaters

We and bears are omnivores. Bears are also carrion eaters.
Unless you think hot dogs are carrion, then ...


I know what carion is and some humans do in fact eat it.


Hot Dogs!

Eating carrion is really not a good idea.


Just because we *can* eat things doesn't mean that we should.


100% agree.


By the way, lack of Acetyl L-Carnitine causes neuropathy.
See what I am getting at?

Nope. Except that you seem very misguided on a lot of things.


Play nice with the other children in the sand box.


Well, you're not really playing nice. Making all kinds of outlandish claims
as though they were fact.

Cite for
lack of Acetyl L-Carnitine causing neuropathy?


Absolutely! [4] [5] Could this have been a contributing
factor to your neuropathy? Vegetarianism causes all kinds
of nerve damage if you are not careful to supplement
and/or cheat on your diet (or eat figs). [6] [7] [8] [9]


That's not a cite. You put a quote from some place and didn't even
attribute to where it came from. I was a vegetarian for many years and had
no nerve damage. I know plenty of vegetarians now with no nerve damage.


Then you got your animal nutrition from somewhere. Did you suppliment
or eat dairy, fish, etc.?



Vegetarianism is unnatural. We are not cows or horses.

It's not unnatural for me or all of the other vegetarians and vegans on
the
face of this earth.


Oh yes, it is unnatural. So is space travel. It is up to the beholder
to judge whether that is a good thing or a bad thing. I am not
trying to offend you.


Now you say that space travel is unnatural? This is really getting
laughable. And you really are offending my sensibilities with all of this
clap trap.

If you are a strict, true vegetarian, meaning you do not consume
any animal nutrition (insects or meat [and fish is meat]) or use
science to synthesize what you are missing, you will get very ill and risk
death. I would posit anything that hurts someone is a bad thing.


Totally untrue! Just freaking totally!


I gave you lots of cites to nerve damage. Did you find them
to be lying?



Some unnatural things are not bad things, like taking metformin.

We can survive as pure carnivores, as do the Inuits [11], but we can
not survive as pure vegetarians.


We could not survive like the Intuits. Few people in this country would eat
what they ate. And it is not available to us.

That being said, very few vegetarians really are. They are just
picky eaters. They eats bugs (figs [12] and bugs in their grains),
milk, eggs, fish, chicken and on and so forth.


Nonsenese! Please, please quit your lying! Please! Vegetarians can eat
dairy and eggs. Vegans do not. Vegans do not use any animal products. Not
even leather. Vegetarians can use leather. Not all do


First, play nice with the other kids in the sandbox.

Second. Vegan is a particular type of vegetarian. I am
using the term vegetarian as the master set of different
types of vegetarians. Some Vegi's eat the things you
cite and other do not. I was very clear what I was
talking about. Stop reading offense were their is none.
I am your friend, not your enemy.

..

"Some" vegetarians do it to condescend. Makes them feel good about
themselves without actually making the effort of being good people.
Most vegetarians I know are doing it for their health -- to each his own.
Hope they supplement and/or cheat on their diet. A lot of
the meat we consume (not me) is pretty unhealthy. Not because
meat is unhealthy, it is not, but because of what is in the meat
and the unhealthy conditions it is raised under.


You are really insulting a lot of people by saying that.


Who am I insulting? The condescending ones? I guess I am
insulting them by calling their behavior condescending.
They are condescending.

By the way, there are lots of nice vegetarians that don't
condescend. In my humble experience, they way outnumber
the condescending ones.


Trust me, is because they are fat.


No. I really don't think so.


We will have to disagree as friends


I see plenty of fat people around here. People who are fatter than me.
I've yet to hear anyone make a disparaging comment about them.


Keep those friends!


My dad was and is fat. He had a very good career. Went far up in the
company. His weight didn't affect that at all.


There is hope. Females suffer from fat bigotry far worse than
men. And since dieting makes you fat [10], guess what
happens to women when they give into to social pressure
and diet? (Should that have been a question mark or a period?)


Oh good grief!

Men suffer from being "success objects".


Really good grief! Now you are insulting everyone and you yourself are
coming across as a bigot.


Women as sex objects and men a as success objects. That is a common
observation. It does not make me a bigot. But, your observation
does make you come across as looking to pick fights were there
are none.


Our goal in society should be to judge people based on the
strength of their character. Not what they look like.


Uhhhhhhhhhhhhh... How about we don't judge them at all? Of course judging
is human nature too.


You must make judgments to survive. The point is to make
proper judgments.



1) http://vet.sagepub.com/content/18/2/143.full.pdf


Something from 1981?

2) http://www.johnrobbins.info/blog/grass-fed-beef/


A blog?

3)
http://www.ivis.org/proceedings/wbc/...sionsimple.pdf

4)
http://www.naturalmedicinejournal.co...n=2&article=77


Something from 2004?

5) https://www.google.com/Acetyl+L-Carnitine+neuropathy


A Google search? Did that myself. No cite there said that lack of it
caused neuropathy. One cite said that it might.

6)
http://www.ivis.org/proceedings/wbc/...sionsimple.pdf

2004?

7) http://www.medicinenet.com/vegetaria...diet/page2.htm


Damn, Skippy! Your own cite proved you wrong there!

8) http://www.drnickcampos.com/health-n...deficiency.htm

We weren't talking about vitamin B deficiencies. And most vegans do know to
eat nutritional yeast to prevent that.
9)
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/ar...-veganism.aspx


A cite from a quack? Not even going to read that.

10) http://www.alternet.org/story/91890/..._makes_you_fat


2008.

11)
http://www.theiflife.com/the-inuit-p...se-and-cancer/


Not interested in that.

12)
http://science.howstuffworks.com/zoo...s/fig-wasp.htm


Okay...

13) http://www.retronaut.com/2011/11/vin...ight-gain-ads/


Okay...

You threw up a bunch of crap links, wasting my time. And not one thing
proves what you said about lack of L Carnitine causing neuropathy.


That is because you did not read them. You just want to pick fights.

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Old 19-03-2013, 12:18 AM posted to alt.food.diabetic
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On 03/18/2013 03:18 PM, W. Baker wrote:

Hi W.,

The way the quotes came up, I can not tell
what you wrote me.

I think you said something about Nutritional Yeast
and B vits. I hope you find a hole in the conversation
with any vegi's that you know so you can let them know.

Also, I did a search on Nutritional Yeast and got
a lot back on it being an excytotoxin (free glutamic acid).
Can you verify this?

-T
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Old 19-03-2013, 12:44 AM posted to alt.food.diabetic
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Default What do you non-insulin T2's eat for breakfast?

On 03/18/2013 02:35 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
Nonsenese! Please, please quit your lying! Please! Vegetarians can eat
dairy and eggs. Vegans do not. Vegans do not use any animal products. Not
even leather. Vegetarians can use leather. Not all do.



Hi Julie,

I am not lying. We are using different definitions. Since
I did not know what your personal one was, I was using what I
thought was the common definition.

This is the definition I am using. Egg and dairy eaters
would fall under the definition of "Semi-vegetarians".
Apparently the "Vegetarian Society" (see below) doesn't
think they are vegetarians at all.

-T

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarianism


Vegetarianism:

Vegetarianism is the practice of abstaining from the
consumption of meat red meat, poultry, seafood and
the flesh of any other animal; it may also include
abstention from by-products of animal slaughter, such
as animal-derived rennet and gelatin.

...

Semi-vegetarian diets consist largely of vegetarian
foods, but may include fish or poultry, or sometimes
other meats, on an infrequent basis. Those with diets
containing fish or poultry may define "meat" only as
mammalian flesh and may identify with vegetarianism.
A pescetarian diet has been described as "fish but
no other meat". *The common use association between
such diets and vegetarianism has led vegetarian groups
such as the Vegetarian Society to state that diets
containing these ingredients are not vegetarian, due
to fish and birds being animals.*

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Default What do you non-insulin T2's eat for breakfast?


"Todd" wrote in message
...
On 03/18/2013 03:18 PM, W. Baker wrote:

Hi W.,

The way the quotes came up, I can not tell
what you wrote me.

I think you said something about Nutritional Yeast
and B vits. I hope you find a hole in the conversation
with any vegi's that you know so you can let them know.


I said that! And it's not up to us to tell any vegetarians or any other
people how to eat! Yes, I know vegetarians who don't eat properly. But I
know a heck of a lot of other people who aren't vegetarians who don't eat
right. And what is right anyway? The food pyramid? You say that's not
right!

Also, I did a search on Nutritional Yeast and got
a lot back on it being an excytotoxin (free glutamic acid).
Can you verify this?


Nope. Don't even what that means. Only know that it's loaded with B
vitamins.


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Old 19-03-2013, 02:18 AM posted to alt.food.diabetic
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Default What do you non-insulin T2's eat for breakfast?

W. Baker wrote:
: Julie Bove wrote:


Something went wrong here with my post and all my material seems to not
have come throughat all. It was a rather complicated series of comments ,
mostly to Julie about , not cites, but where I learned much of hte
material about homnivores, Mad COw disease and feeding animals downed
animals, etc from reading Newspapers and listening to news on teh TV and
Radio(Mostly NPR) as well as material I remember learning some 60 years
ago in HS biology. I also learned about the harm that corn, actually a
perfectly good food for non-diabetics if eaten within reason, is a
terrible food that cannot be digested by cows. It tears up their guts.
this information I read , in both Omnivore's dilemma by Polard and Michael
S---? book on the cattle industry, but i forget the name(senior moment-it
will come to me in the middle of the night, causing me to lose sleep:-)

I interleafed it, but none of it seems to have gotten through. No idea
why.

Wendy

: : "Todd"
wrote in message : : ...
: : On 03/18/2013 12:21 AM, Julie Bove wrote:
: : "Todd" wrote in message
: : ...
: : On 03/17/2013 09:29 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
: : What's unnatural? Are you calling vegetarianism unnatural?
: :
: : Yes. Our eyes on the front of our heads, not the sides.
: : We can not eat grass. We are born virtually blind and
: : helpless. We can not run 30 minutes after being born.
: : We do not have two stomaches. Yada, Yada, Yada.
: :
: : We can eat grass.
: :
: : If you mean can we swallow grass, then yes. That is not what I meant.
: : We can not break down the cellulose like a real herbivore. We
: : need two stomaches for that.
: :
: : One of my customers bought bags of grass seed on a
: : regular basis to be used for sprouts. He ate them.
: :
: : Sprouts and full grown grass are two different things. We can
: : eat (digest) sprouts. They haven't developed the cellulose
: : to the point where they are just bran to us.
: :
: : Granted, most people
: : don't eat grass but we could.
: :
: : Yes we could swallow it. It is called "bran" to an omnivore.
: : We can't digest it.
: :
: : And no, we don't have two stomachs. Are you
: : comparing us to cows?
: :
: : Cow have two stomachs, so they can digest cellulose. We
: : can't. You missed the point.

: : You do know that cellulose is added to a lot of food. Right? And what does
: : that have to do with vegetarianism? It doesn't!

: : Because cows can eat corn too.
: :
: : True. And it is really bad for them. It gives them ulcers [1]
: : [2] [3]. It is unnatural to feed them corn. That is why feed
: : lots have to race to fatten up cows before they kill them.
: : We are not carrion eaters.

: : Cite that corn gives them ulcers? And we certainly can be carion eaters.
: : Ever watch Honey
: : Boo Boo? Seen those foreign films where the natives find a dead animal and
: : butcher it?
: :
: : Are you saying that
: : we can't eat corn?
: :
: : We can. We shouldn't. It is like eating pure sugar. I
: : believed that stupid food pyramid and their healthy
: : carbohydrates monkey shine. I truly believe it is what
: : burned out my beta cells. I know we disagree on this subject.

: : No. It's not like pure sugar at all. And yes, we very much do disagree.
: :
: : These days cows eat all sorts of things. Well, some
: : cows anyway.
: :
: : They use to feed dead cows back to cows. Gross. Cows are
: : not cannibals. Gave them Mad Cow disease. Hmmm.
: : Really thought that one out really well, didn't they.

: : Oh really? Cite for that, then! You make all these off the wall claims and
: : just expect us to belive what you say!

: : We are "omnivores", like bears. Except that bears are
: : carrion eaters, unless you think hot dogs are carrion,
: : then we are just like bears.
: :
: : No we're not.
: :
: : Both humans and bears are omnivores. Neither one of us
: : are herbivores as neither one of us can digest grass
: : (cellulose). I am not sure what you are disagreeing with.

: : Cite that the definition of an herbivore means digesting grass?
: :
: : Their are four basic type of mammals:
: : herbivores
: : omnivores
: : carnivores
: : carrion eaters
: :
: : We and bears are omnivores. Bears are also carrion eaters.
: : Unless you think hot dogs are carrion, then ...

: : I know what carion is and some humans do in fact eat it.

: : Just because we *can* eat things doesn't mean that we should.
: :
: : 100% agree.
: :
: :
: : By the way, lack of Acetyl L-Carnitine causes neuropathy.
: : See what I am getting at?
: :
: : Nope. Except that you seem very misguided on a lot of things.
: :
: : Play nice with the other children in the sand box.

: : Well, you're not really playing nice. Making all kinds of outlandish claims
: : as though they were fact.
: :
: : Cite for
: : lack of Acetyl L-Carnitine causing neuropathy?
: :
: : Absolutely! [4] [5] Could this have been a contributing
: : factor to your neuropathy? Vegetarianism causes all kinds
: : of nerve damage if you are not careful to supplement
: : and/or cheat on your diet (or eat figs). [6] [7] [8] [9]

: : That's not a cite. You put a quote from some place and didn't even
: : attribute to where it came from. I was a vegetarian for many years and had
: : no nerve damage. I know plenty of vegetarians now with no nerve damage.
: :
: :
: : Vegetarianism is unnatural. We are not cows or horses.
: :
: : It's not unnatural for me or all of the other vegetarians and vegans on
: : the
: : face of this earth.
: :
: : Oh yes, it is unnatural. So is space travel. It is up to the beholder
: : to judge whether that is a good thing or a bad thing. I am not
: : trying to offend you.

: : Now you say that space travel is unnatural? This is really getting
: : laughable. And you really are offending my sensibilities with all of this
: : clap trap.
: :
: : If you are a strict, true vegetarian, meaning you do not consume
: : any animal nutrition (insects or meat [and fish is meat]) or use
: : science to synthesize what you are missing, you will get very ill and risk
: : death. I would posit anything that hurts someone is a bad thing.

: : Totally untrue! Just freaking totally!
: :
: : Some unnatural things are not bad things, like taking metformin.
: :
: : We can survive as pure carnivores, as do the Inuits [11], but we can
: : not survive as pure vegetarians.

: : We could not survive like the Intuits. Few people in this country would eat
: : what they ate. And it is not available to us.
: :
: : That being said, very few vegetarians really are. They are just
: : picky eaters. They eats bugs (figs [12] and bugs in their grains),
: : milk, eggs, fish, chicken and on and so forth.

: : Nonsenese! Please, please quit your lying! Please! Vegetarians can eat
: : dairy and eggs. Vegans do not. Vegans do not use any animal products. Not
: : even leather. Vegetarians can use leather. Not all do.
: :
: : "Some" vegetarians do it to condescend. Makes them feel good about
: : themselves without actually making the effort of being good people.
: : Most vegetarians I know are doing it for their health -- to each his own.
: : Hope they supplement and/or cheat on their diet. A lot of
: : the meat we consume (not me) is pretty unhealthy. Not because
: : meat is unhealthy, it is not, but because of what is in the meat
: : and the unhealthy conditions it is raised under.

: : You are really insulting a lot of people by saying that.

: : What's a fat suite?
: :
: : It is a rubber suite that makes you look fat. Pretty
: : realistic looking too. Lots of bigotry against fat people
: : out there.
: :
: : Those fat suits that I have seen make the person look grossly obese. I
: : have
: : never been grossly obese. I have been fat. I am fat. I have been thin.
: : I
: : have been very thin. Some of the most cruel remarks that people made to
: : and
: : about me came about when I was thin.
: :
: : Back before the television, I have seen adds for weight gain products
: : that made big fun of skinny girls [13]. They implied a skinny girl
: : could not get married, among other things.

: : Uh huh.
: :
: : As a fat person, I have only ever had
: : one person make comments about my weight. That person makes nasty
: : comments
: : to and about any person who is overweight. He himself is very
: : overweight.
: : More overweight than I am. This person has a lot of other issues and
: : isn't
: : the most socially adept person. So his comments to me are meaningless.
: :
: : The proper response to folks like that is "Bite Me!" Ignore people
: : like that.

: : Uh huh.
: :
: :
: : Yes, I have seen those shows on TV and read magazine articles and such
: : about
: : how the people in the fat suits were mistreated. But it could also be
: : that
: : they were carrying themselves differently than normal. I just don't
: : know.
: :
: : Trust me, is because they are fat.

: : No. I really don't think so.
: :
: : I see plenty of fat people around here. People who are fatter than me.
: : I've yet to hear anyone make a disparaging comment about them.
: :
: : Keep those friends!

: : My dad was and is fat. He had a very good career. Went far up in the
: : company. His weight didn't affect that at all.
: :
: : There is hope. Females suffer from fat bigotry far worse than
: : men. And since dieting makes you fat [10], guess what
: : happens to women when they give into to social pressure
: : and diet? (Should that have been a question mark or a period?)

: : Oh good grief!
: :
: : Men suffer from being "success objects".

: : Really good grief! Now you are insulting everyone and you yourself are
: : coming across as a bigot.
: :
: : Our goal in society should be to judge people based on the
: : strength of their character. Not what they look like.

: : Uhhhhhhhhhhhhh... How about we don't judge them at all? Of course judging
: : is human nature too.


: : 1) http://vet.sagepub.com/content/18/2/143.full.pdf

: : Something from 1981?
: :
: : 2) http://www.johnrobbins.info/blog/grass-fed-beef/

: : A blog?
: :
: : 3)
: : http://www.ivis.org/proceedings/wbc/...sionsimple.pdf
: :
: : 4)
: : http://www.naturalmedicinejournal.co...n=2&article=77

: : Something from 2004?
: :
: : 5) https://www.google.com/Acetyl+L-Carnitine+neuropathy

: : A Google search? Did that myself. No cite there said that lack of it
: : caused neuropathy. One cite said that it might.
: :
: : 6)
: : http://www.ivis.org/proceedings/wbc/...sionsimple.pdf
: :
: : 2004?

: : 7) http://www.medicinenet.com/vegetaria...diet/page2.htm

: : Damn, Skippy! Your own cite proved you wrong there!
: :
: : 8) http://www.drnickcampos.com/health-n...deficiency.htm
: :
: : We weren't talking about vitamin B deficiencies. And most vegans do know to
: : eat nutritional yeast to prevent that.
: : 9)
: : http://articles.mercola.com/sites/ar...-veganism.aspx

: : A cite from a quack? Not even going to read that.
: :
: : 10) http://www.alternet.org/story/91890/..._makes_you_fat

: : 2008.
: :
: : 11)
: : http://www.theiflife.com/the-inuit-p...se-and-cancer/

: : Not interested in that.
: :
: : 12)
: : http://science.howstuffworks.com/zoo...s/fig-wasp.htm

: : Okay...
: :
: : 13) http://www.retronaut.com/2011/11/vin...ight-gain-ads/

: : Okay...

: : You threw up a bunch of crap links, wasting my time. And not one thing
: : proves what you said about lack of L Carnitine causing neuropathy.




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Old 19-03-2013, 02:29 AM posted to alt.food.diabetic
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Default What do you non-insulin T2's eat for breakfast?


"Todd" wrote in message
...
On 03/18/2013 02:35 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
"Todd" wrote in message


Cow have two stomachs, so they can digest cellulose. We
can't. You missed the point.


You do know that cellulose is added to a lot of food. Right? And what
does
that have to do with vegetarianism? It doesn't!


"cellulose" is called "bran" in humans. They derive no nutritious
from. Grass is cellulose.


So? Cellulose is still put in a lot of food that people eat. We don't
derive any nutrition from Aspartame either. And I'll bet a lot of people
consume there here! And Splenda too.


Because cows can eat corn too.

True. And it is really bad for them. It gives them ulcers [1]
[2] [3]. It is unnatural to feed them corn. That is why feed
lots have to race to fatten up cows before they kill them.
We are not carrion eaters.


Cite that corn gives them ulcers?


I already did. That was the "[2] [3]" in my sentence.


I don't want your sentence. I want the actual cite that shows where this is
true.

And we certainly can be carion eaters.
Ever watch Honey Boo Boo?


No


Well, they eat road kill. So do apparently a lot of other people in this
country. Mainly in the South I think.

Seen those foreign films where the natives find a dead animal and
butcher it?


Oh that can't be good. I have heard of American Indians that
will leave a dead diseased animal to rot.


As I said above. Lots of people do it. And I never said they were
diseased.

Are you saying that
we can't eat corn?

We can. We shouldn't. It is like eating pure sugar. I
believed that stupid food pyramid and their healthy
carbohydrates monkey shine. I truly believe it is what
burned out my beta cells. I know we disagree on this subject.


No. It's not like pure sugar at all. And yes, we very much do disagree.


Corn:

http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/carbcounts/a/corn.htm

Glycemic Index for Corn Glycemic index studies of
corn report averages of anywhere from 37 to 62.
An average GI of 54 is commonly used

Table sugar:

http://www.sugar-and-sweetener-guide...weeteners.html

Sucrose Sugar 65


I don't care what the GI of any food is. I don't go by that. And corn has
nutrients and fiber. Sugar only provides energy.

These days cows eat all sorts of things. Well, some
cows anyway.

They use to feed dead cows back to cows. Gross. Cows are
not cannibals. Gave them Mad Cow disease. Hmmm.
Really thought that one out really well, didn't they.


Oh really? Cite for that, then! You make all these off the wall claims
and
just expect us to belive what you say!


Not off the wall at all. I had 13 cites in the last letter
I wrote you. Missed this one. Sorry.

http://praisemoves.com/2012/04/cattl...d-cow-disease/

That's some sort of religous Chistian site. Not gonna read that!


We are "omnivores", like bears. Except that bears are
carrion eaters, unless you think hot dogs are carrion,
then we are just like bears.

No we're not.

Both humans and bears are omnivores. Neither one of us
are herbivores as neither one of us can digest grass
(cellulose). I am not sure what you are disagreeing with.


Cite that the definition of an herbivore means digesting grass?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbivore

Sorry I did not cite this as I thought you took biology in
college.


Oh. Putting me down again then? I dropped out of college after the first
Semester or Trimester or whatever it was in those days. I did get an A+ in
both my regular and advances Algebra in Hish School. And your link did not
say anyting of the sort. I will quote:

"
A herbivore is an organism anatomically and physiologically adapted to plant
material, for example foliage, as the main component of its diet." Foliage.
You know, cabbage, lettuce, stuff like that. AFAIK there is no one animal
that can and does eat all leaves.




Their are four basic type of mammals:
herbivores
omnivores
carnivores
carrion eaters

We and bears are omnivores. Bears are also carrion eaters.
Unless you think hot dogs are carrion, then ...


I know what carion is and some humans do in fact eat it.


Hot Dogs!

Eating carrion is really not a good idea.


Just because we *can* eat things doesn't mean that we should.

100% agree.


By the way, lack of Acetyl L-Carnitine causes neuropathy.
See what I am getting at?

Nope. Except that you seem very misguided on a lot of things.

Play nice with the other children in the sand box.


Well, you're not really playing nice. Making all kinds of outlandish
claims
as though they were fact.

Cite for
lack of Acetyl L-Carnitine causing neuropathy?

Absolutely! [4] [5] Could this have been a contributing
factor to your neuropathy? Vegetarianism causes all kinds
of nerve damage if you are not careful to supplement
and/or cheat on your diet (or eat figs). [6] [7] [8] [9]


That's not a cite. You put a quote from some place and didn't even
attribute to where it came from. I was a vegetarian for many years and
had
no nerve damage. I know plenty of vegetarians now with no nerve damage.


Then you got your animal nutrition from somewhere. Did you suppliment
or eat dairy, fish, etc.?


When I was a vegetarian I ate small amounts of dairy and egg. When I ate a
vegan diet it was entirely plant based. No animal whatever. I am
intolerant to dairy and eggs. I can not eat them now at all ever. I do use
leather products so for that reason can not call myself vegan. But I ate a
vegan diet. I had to stop this due to my gastroparesis. I do not digest
most vegetables, meats, fruits or fats very well. That leaves me with a
very limited diet. And because of this, I take tons of supplements.

Vegetarianism is unnatural. We are not cows or horses.

It's not unnatural for me or all of the other vegetarians and vegans on
the
face of this earth.

Oh yes, it is unnatural. So is space travel. It is up to the beholder
to judge whether that is a good thing or a bad thing. I am not
trying to offend you.


Now you say that space travel is unnatural? This is really getting
laughable. And you really are offending my sensibilities with all of
this
clap trap.

If you are a strict, true vegetarian, meaning you do not consume
any animal nutrition (insects or meat [and fish is meat]) or use
science to synthesize what you are missing, you will get very ill and
risk
death. I would posit anything that hurts someone is a bad thing.


Totally untrue! Just freaking totally!


I gave you lots of cites to nerve damage. Did you find them
to be lying?


You gave me no cites whatever that said lack of L Carnitine causes nerve
damage. Do you even read those cites that you post?



Some unnatural things are not bad things, like taking metformin.

We can survive as pure carnivores, as do the Inuits [11], but we can
not survive as pure vegetarians.


We could not survive like the Intuits. Few people in this country would
eat
what they ate. And it is not available to us.

That being said, very few vegetarians really are. They are just
picky eaters. They eats bugs (figs [12] and bugs in their grains),
milk, eggs, fish, chicken and on and so forth.


Nonsenese! Please, please quit your lying! Please! Vegetarians can eat
dairy and eggs. Vegans do not. Vegans do not use any animal products.
Not
even leather. Vegetarians can use leather. Not all do


First, play nice with the other kids in the sandbox.

Second. Vegan is a particular type of vegetarian. I am
using the term vegetarian as the master set of different
types of vegetarians. Some Vegi's eat the things you
cite and other do not. I was very clear what I was
talking about. Stop reading offense were their is none.
I am your friend, not your enemy.


Vegan is *not* vegetarian. There are three types of vegetarian. Lacto,
meaning that they only eat dairy and not eggs. Ovo, meaning that they only
eat eggs and no dairy. And Lacto/Ovo meaning that they eat both. Vegans do
not use any animal products of any kind. And you do not seem to be my
friend at all. If they eat fish they are Pescatarians. If people are
claiming to be vegetarian and then eating other things, they are not really
vegetarians. True vegetarians and vegans really do take offense to others
who do this! Do what you want but call it what it is!

"Some" vegetarians do it to condescend. Makes them feel good about
themselves without actually making the effort of being good people.
Most vegetarians I know are doing it for their health -- to each his
own.
Hope they supplement and/or cheat on their diet. A lot of
the meat we consume (not me) is pretty unhealthy. Not because
meat is unhealthy, it is not, but because of what is in the meat
and the unhealthy conditions it is raised under.


You are really insulting a lot of people by saying that.


Who am I insulting? The condescending ones? I guess I am
insulting them by calling their behavior condescending.
They are condescending.


By calling them that you are being rude. Even by saying what you are saying
is rude. There is no cheating on a vegetarian or vegan diet. You either
are or you aren't. I can't say that I am now. I do eat some meat. But I
follow a mostly vegetarian diet.

By the way, there are lots of nice vegetarians that don't
condescend. In my humble experience, they way outnumber
the condescending ones.


Whatever.

Trust me, is because they are fat.


No. I really don't think so.


We will have to disagree as friends


Well we can disagree.

I see plenty of fat people around here. People who are fatter than me.
I've yet to hear anyone make a disparaging comment about them.

Keep those friends!


My dad was and is fat. He had a very good career. Went far up in the
company. His weight didn't affect that at all.

There is hope. Females suffer from fat bigotry far worse than
men. And since dieting makes you fat [10], guess what
happens to women when they give into to social pressure
and diet? (Should that have been a question mark or a period?)


Oh good grief!

Men suffer from being "success objects".


Really good grief! Now you are insulting everyone and you yourself are
coming across as a bigot.


Women as sex objects and men a as success objects. That is a common
observation. It does not make me a bigot. But, your observation
does make you come across as looking to pick fights were there
are none.


OMG! You would never be my friend. Never! You just can't see yourself for
the bigot that you are.

Our goal in society should be to judge people based on the
strength of their character. Not what they look like.


Uhhhhhhhhhhhhh... How about we don't judge them at all? Of course
judging
is human nature too.


You must make judgments to survive. The point is to make
proper judgments.


Whatever that means...


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Old 19-03-2013, 02:30 AM posted to alt.food.diabetic
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Default What do you non-insulin T2's eat for breakfast?

Todd wrote:
: On 03/18/2013 02:35 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
: "Todd" wrote in message

: Cow have two stomachs, so they can digest cellulose. We
: can't. You missed the point.

Actually they have 4!

:
: You do know that cellulose is added to a lot of food. Right? And what does
: that have to do with vegetarianism? It doesn't!

: "cellulose" is called "bran" in humans. They derive no nutritious
: from. Grass is cellulose.

Well it keeps things moving along and for some folks that is a desirable
effect while for others it can be a disaster!


:

: Seen those foreign films where the natives find a dead animal and
: butcher it?

: Oh that can't be good. I have heard of American Indians that
: will leave a dead diseased animal to rot.

There were tribes in New Guinea that ate the brains of their ancestors
when they died and it led to unexplained sicknesses until it was found
that some diseases were being past on(like Mad COw)

there have been cannibals too.
: Glycemic Index for Corn Glycemic index studies of
: corn report averages of anywhere from 37 to 62.
: An average GI of 54 is commonly used.

: Table sugar:

: http://www.sugar-and-sweetener-guide...weeteners.html

: Sucrose Sugar 65

Corn in reasonable quantities is fine for non-diabeticsas part of a diet.
some cultures use it as their main grain because that is what grew there.
Look at Central America, home of the tortilla, originally only corn,now
you can get corn anor wheat one, but that is only since Europeans
introduces wheat to the Western Hemisphere.

: We are "omnivores", like bears. Except that bears are
: carrion eaters, unless you think hot dogs are carrion,
: then we are just like bears.
:
: No we're not.
How is our omnivoreness different from the bears? We both eat both
vegetable and flesh foods. The native people and the bears in Julie's
part of the country both look for the big salmon runs for sutenance
through the winter, the bears by pigging out to get fat for hibernation
and the naitive people to smoke the fish on alderwood to preserve it.

: Both humans and bears are omnivores. Neither one of us
: are herbivores as neither one of us can digest grass
: (cellulose). I am not sure what you are disagreeing with.


This is not all that I wrote, but I hope this, at least comes through.

Wendy
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Old 19-03-2013, 02:35 AM posted to alt.food.diabetic
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Default What do you non-insulin T2's eat for breakfast?

On 03/18/2013 06:18 PM, W. Baker wrote:
. wrote:
: Julie wrote:


Something went wrong here with my post and all my material seems to not
have come throughat all. It was a rather complicated series of comments ,
mostly to Julie about , not cites, but where I learned much of hte
material about homnivores, Mad COw disease and feeding animals downed
animals, etc from reading Newspapers and listening to news on teh TV and
Radio(Mostly NPR) as well as material I remember learning some 60 years
ago in HS biology. I also learned about the harm that corn, actually a
perfectly good food for non-diabetics if eaten within reason, is a
terrible food that cannot be digested by cows. It tears up their guts.
this information I read , in both Omnivore's dilemma by Polard and Michael
S---? book on the cattle industry, but i forget the name(senior moment-it
will come to me in the middle of the night, causing me to lose sleep:-)

I interleafed it, but none of it seems to have gotten through. No idea
why.

Wendy


Hi Wendy,

Rats. I adore your writing.

The mad cow thing is disgusting. What made them think they
could turn herbivores into cannibals? Bad enough they
stand in their own scat (poop) in feed lots. Herbivore's
are conveyor belts: they walk and the grass (cellulose)
goes in one end and the scat goes out the other. They
never stand in their own scat. (Then birds eat the bugs
and then it decomposes into the soil and the grass
grows back. Full circle.)

About three years ago, before I knew about T2, I grew some
hybridized (for sugar content) corn. The crop bombed, but
I did get about one meal out of it. It was very tasty,
as is anything out of an organic garden. But, I do remember
it was so sweet it was like eating candy. Nice if they
hybridized it for protein and fat. Fat chance. Not as
addictive.

Senior moments have an upside. Every morning you get to eat new
food, watch new movies, meet new people ... :-)

-T
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Old 19-03-2013, 02:38 AM posted to alt.food.diabetic
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Default What do you non-insulin T2's eat for breakfast?

On 03/18/2013 06:12 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
I think you said something about Nutritional Yeast
and B vits. I hope you find a hole in the conversation
with any vegi's that you know so you can let them know.



I said that! And it's not up to us to tell any vegetarians or any other
people how to eat! Yes, I know vegetarians who don't eat properly. But I
know a heck of a lot of other people who aren't vegetarians who don't eat
right. And what is right anyway? The food pyramid? You say that's not
right!


Hi Julie,

It was hard to tell.

The way I see it there are three types of friends:

1) those who won't tell you your fly is unzipped

2) those who will

and

3) those who won't tell you, but will tell everyone
else.

I never said not to be tactful.

-T


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Old 19-03-2013, 02:59 AM posted to alt.food.diabetic
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Default What do you non-insulin T2's eat for breakfast?

On 03/18/2013 06:29 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
Women as sex objects and men a as success objects. That is a common
observation. It does not make me a bigot. But, your observation
does make you come across as looking to pick fights were there
are none.


OMG! You would never be my friend. Never! You just can't see yourself for
the bigot that you are.


I never said that the above assumptions about men and women were
a good thing. And quit jumping to conclusions about others.
I am no more a bigot than you are a toad. If you disagree
with others or don't understand them, it does not mean they
are wrong or that they are lying or that. It just makes
you disagreeable.




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