In alt.support.diabetes Orlando Enrique Fiol > wrote:

> I don't know how else to say this. If your religion even suggests that you
> compromise your health for a mere ritual, I suggest you consider another
> religion.

My religious teachers were always quite firm on this kind of
issue. Shopping for your religion on the basis of what made things
more convenient for you was absolutely the wrong attitude.

--
Chris Malcolm

In alt.support.diabetes Ellen K. > wrote:

: It's true that I don't tolerate grains well. Based on this morning's test,
: I would say I can't tolerate them at all in the morning. However, late in
: the day I can eat a low-carb tortilla (which does contain grain), (it has 10
: gm carbs of which 7 are fiber, so 3 gm net carbs) with no problem.


: The half-a-rye-matzo for the sabbath meals does not do what the quarter did
: this morning, but it doesn't seem to be completely benign either, although
: it's a little hard to separate out the effects. For example, usually I go
: to sleep earlier on Friday night than during the week, so more time elapses
: until I check my FBG Saturday morning... so it may be higher just because
: more time has elapsed, not because I ate the half a matzo the night before.
: What I am thinking to try next is to come up with a recipe that will still
: count as bread for the purposes discussed in the thread about eating bread
: on the sabbath, but have the same BG effect as the low-carb tortillas. I
: need to get clearer on a few technical issues such as what percentage of
: such a recipe has to be FLOUR from one of the five specified grains, e.g.
: would "oat fiber" (anybody know if this is the same as oat bran???) count
: the same as oat flour, etc. I think if oat fiber counts the same as oat
: flour I could create something that would meet both my religious and health
: needs.
<snipped Orlando's nice post>

Ellen, I am not trying to pasken for you, but it would seem to me that as
the fiber is PART of the grain, it shoudl be OK to use just that part to
some estent. After all, we can us just the endosperm (white part) of the
wheat without the bran. Why not the bran without the endosperm:-)

If I don't get off this machine my dinner will bot be ready !

Wendy

In alt.support.diabetes Orlando Enrique Fiol > wrote:
: Ellen K. > wrote:
: >Christians get to define Christianity, Jews get to define Judaism.

: Not quite. Jesus was, like it or not, a Jew. Therefore, his critiques of Jewish
: legalism should count as coming from an insider.

: >I'm sure you wouldn't like me to criticize your religion from the point of
: >view of mine.

: I actually wouldn't mind that. Ironically, I'm defending both your desire to
: say meaningful sabbath prayers and your need not to accompany them with bread.

: Orlando

Can you say that you have received communion if you do not eat the wafer?
Would you be cut of from this sacrament?

Wendy

W. Baker > wrote:
>Can you say that you have received communion if you do not eat the wafer?
>Would you be cut of from this sacrament?

That's different because Christians commune together as a congregation, while
Jews celebrate the sabbath meal privately in their homes. If I wanted to
substitute the bread of the eucharist with something entirely different, I
could do it privately without expecting the rest of my church to join in or
accommodate me. However, in my case, a bite of bread would not send me into a
tailspin.

Orlando

In alt.food.diabetic Orlando Enrique Fiol > wrote:
: W. Baker > wrote:
: >Can you say that you have received communion if you do not eat the wafer?
: >Would you be cut of from this sacrament?

: That's different because Christians commune together as a congregation, while
: Jews celebrate the sabbath meal privately in their homes. If I wanted to
: substitute the bread of the eucharist with something entirely different, I
: could do it privately without expecting the rest of my church to join in or
: accommodate me. However, in my case, a bite of bread would not send me into a
: tailspin.

: Orlando

It is not, for Ellen, just a bite of bread, but half a sheet of the rye
matzo or a 1 ounce slice of bread or roll that is required for her to
wash, with a blessing, say the Kiddush and say the Grace after meals.
That is more carb than her system can currently handle.

From what I understand of Traditional Catholicism, the bread must be
sanctified, causing it to be transubstaniated int the body of your Lord
for it to be communion, not just some kind of communal fellowship, tht you
do find in some Protestant churches. If you think of Protestand churches
like the other than Orthodox Jewish denominations, one does not easily
just cross over from one to the other. Ellen is an observane, Orthodox
Jew to whom al the differences are important and she is having a hard
time feeling she has to miss something that enhances her Shabbat
experience. You may not feel the same way obout your Church, but that's
what we have here.

I must rush now to get dressed and ready for the beginning of the New Year
here.

Wendy

On 9/8/2010 12:35 PM, W. Baker wrote:
> In alt.support.diabetes Orlando Enrique > wrote:
> : Ellen > wrote:
> :>Christians get to define Christianity, Jews get to define Judaism.
>
> : Not quite. Jesus was, like it or not, a Jew. Therefore, his critiques of Jewish
> : legalism should count as coming from an insider.
>
> :>I'm sure you wouldn't like me to criticize your religion from the point of
> :>view of mine.
>
> : I actually wouldn't mind that. Ironically, I'm defending both your desire to
> : say meaningful sabbath prayers and your need not to accompany them with bread.
>
> : Orlando
>
> Can you say that you have received communion if you do not eat the wafer?
> Would you be cut of from this sacrament?

The breaking of bread together grew straight out of Judaism
into Christianity. Not all communion relies on wafers, but
all do depend on bread in some form, and many make something
of the wine aspect although not all forms actually have an
alcohol content.

Some of us are not significantly entangled with any formal
religion but prefer living with a good conscience devoid
of rule following for the sake of fellowship. I don't know
what Orlando is promoting. I promote conscience based living,
however anyone chooses to get there. Unfortunately, all too
often, rule following and active membership in a religion
work to shield the individual from a real conscience.

"Communion" in any form takes a distant back seat in my view.

W. Baker > wrote:
>It is not, for Ellen, just a bite of bread, but half a sheet of the rye
>matzo or a 1 ounce slice of bread or roll that is required for her to
>wash, with a blessing, say the Kiddush and say the Grace after meals.
>That is more carb than her system can currently handle.

I entirely understand that, which is why I suggest that Ellen reconsider the
rigidity of her observance.

>From what I understand of Traditional Catholicism, the bread must be
>sanctified, causing it to be transubstaniated int the body of your Lord
>for it to be communion, not just some kind of communal fellowship, tht you
>do find in some Protestant churches.

I was not trying to make a theological point based on transubstantiation. In a
church setting, the bread or wafer are sanctified before communion, but any
object can be similarly sanctified in private.

>If you think of Protestand churches
>like the other than Orthodox Jewish denominations, one does not easily
>just cross over from one to the other.

Actually, one can. It may be heartbreaking and disorienting, but it's entirely
possible.

>Ellen is an observane, Orthodox
>Jew to whom al the differences are important and she is having a hard
>time feeling she has to miss something that enhances her Shabbat
>experience.

I'm sorry that her diabetes is giving her a hard time. But if her body cannot
handle the carbs from the requisite sabbath bread, she must find a religious
justification not to eat it. It's just that simple.

Orlando

"Orlando Enrique Fiol" > wrote in message
. ..
> W. Baker > wrote:
>>It is not, for Ellen, just a bite of bread, but half a sheet of the rye
>>matzo or a 1 ounce slice of bread or roll that is required for her to
>>wash, with a blessing, say the Kiddush and say the Grace after meals.
>>That is more carb than her system can currently handle.
>
> I entirely understand that, which is why I suggest that Ellen reconsider
> the
> rigidity of her observance.
>
>>From what I understand of Traditional Catholicism, the bread must be
>>sanctified, causing it to be transubstaniated int the body of your Lord
>>for it to be communion, not just some kind of communal fellowship, tht you
>>do find in some Protestant churches.
>
> I was not trying to make a theological point based on transubstantiation.
> In a
> church setting, the bread or wafer are sanctified before communion, but
> any
> object can be similarly sanctified in private.
>
>>If you think of Protestand churches
>>like the other than Orthodox Jewish denominations, one does not easily
>>just cross over from one to the other.
>
> Actually, one can. It may be heartbreaking and disorienting, but it's
> entirely
> possible.
>
>>Ellen is an observane, Orthodox
>>Jew to whom al the differences are important and she is having a hard
>>time feeling she has to miss something that enhances her Shabbat
>>experience.
>
> I'm sorry that her diabetes is giving her a hard time. But if her body
> cannot
> handle the carbs from the requisite sabbath bread, she must find a
> religious
> justification not to eat it. It's just that simple.

Oh for Pete's sake!

On Thu, 09 Sep 2010 13:25:25 +1000, Alan S
> wrote:

>On 8 Sep 2010 12:31:28 GMT, Chris Malcolm >
>wrote:
>
>>In alt.support.diabetes Orlando Enrique Fiol > wrote:
>>
>>> I don't know how else to say this. If your religion even suggests that you
>>> compromise your health for a mere ritual, I suggest you consider another
>>> religion.
>>
>>My religious teachers were always quite firm on this kind of
>>issue. Shopping for your religion on the basis of what made things
>>more convenient for you was absolutely the wrong attitude.
>
>I didn't like the shops so I chose not to buy at all

Thanks to the internet you can now get it delivered

Janet Wilder > wrote:
>The rules that Ellen has chosen to follow are not G-d's rules. They are
>rules made up by men who believed they were interpreting G-d's
>commandments.

I completely agree. You said it much better than I evidently could.

>Ellen chooses which of these interpretations she finds
>comfort in.

Which is why I suggest she choose a different interpretation that dovetails
better with her diabetes.

>Not all Jews believe as she does.

I know.

Orlando

Janet Wilder > wrote:
>The problem here is that in order to say the blessing on bread and to
>say the grace after meals, which on the Sabbath is a big part of the
>celebration, her rabbi declared she has to eat a certain amount of
>bread. She doesn't have to eat the bread, but she can't partake in these
>prayers if she doesn't eat it.

It sounds to me like Ellen needs a different rabbi.

>I don't think it's Ellen's problem as much as it's a rabbi who is
>somewhat clueless about dispensations for these kinds of things.
>Wherever he found the rules about the size of pieces of bread that
>qualify for the blessing, he could also have found something about
>making the blessings without bread if there is an illness involved, but
>he didn't.

And because of her orthodox faith, she implicitly trusts her rabbi's
interpretations of Jewish law, even when they may compromise her health.

>This is how she chooses to practice her religion. If she doesn't eat the
>bread and says the prayers, she will have considered herself as having
>committed a sin.

Praying to God while not endangering one's health is not a sin.

>Let's leave it, please.

I don't think we should; it cuts to the core of what it means to live with
diabetes while trying to be religious.

Orlando

"Alan S" > wrote in message
...

> I didn't like the shops so I chose not to buy at all

here it is free for chrismas; choosed an other present sofar

On Thu, 09 Sep 2010 13:25:25 +1000, Alan S
> wrote:

>On 8 Sep 2010 12:31:28 GMT, Chris Malcolm >
>wrote:
>>My religious teachers were always quite firm on this kind of
>>issue. Shopping for your religion on the basis of what made things
>>more convenient for you was absolutely the wrong attitude.
>
>I didn't like the shops so I chose not to buy at all

Now I love the shops. I'm quite happy to admire the shops, and the
sheer nuts factor of spending such a huge amount of effort on them.
You can keep the product though

Nicky.
T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
D&E, 150ug thyroxine
Last A1c 5.2% BMI 26

On 9/9/2010 9:36 AM, Orlando Enrique Fiol wrote:
> Janet > wrote:
>> The problem here is that in order to say the blessing on bread and to
>> say the grace after meals, which on the Sabbath is a big part of the
>> celebration, her rabbi declared she has to eat a certain amount of
>> bread. She doesn't have to eat the bread, but she can't partake in these
>> prayers if she doesn't eat it.
>
> It sounds to me like Ellen needs a different rabbi.

You might be correct. I was telling my own rabbi about this whole thing
and he said I was absolutely correct that her rabbi should have looked
for a interpretation that would permit her to say the blessings.
Specifically, he stated that there is no law that he knows of that would
prohibit saying the grace after meals, what Ellen calls "benchen"
without having eaten bread,that he is aware of. I am aware of a "rule"
that says if you haven't eaten bread, you don't have to say the entire
grace, but neither of us could come up with one stating one *had* to eat
bread. Again, there are interpretations and there are interpretations.

I am led to believe that when she asked her rabbi her question or
"sheila" she may not have phrased it appropriately for him to give a
considered answer. Perhaps instead of asking how much bread is required
to say the blessing and the grace, she might have asked her rabbi if
there was a dispensation for saying both of these with out eating any
bread (or matzoh) when one has an illness that makes eating even a small
amount a danger to her health. Sometimes getting a good answer requires
asking a good question.

>> I don't think it's Ellen's problem as much as it's a rabbi who is
>> somewhat clueless about dispensations for these kinds of things.
>> Wherever he found the rules about the size of pieces of bread that
>> qualify for the blessing, he could also have found something about
>> making the blessings without bread if there is an illness involved, but
>> he didn't.
>
> And because of her orthodox faith, she implicitly trusts her rabbi's
> interpretations of Jewish law, even when they may compromise her health.

See above.

Yes. Her beliefs require her to follow the interpretation of her rabbi.

Many people equate a rabbi with a priest or minister. Though the job
has kind of evolved to mean a person who leads a religious service, that
is not really what a rabbi does. Jews do not need a rabbi to lead their
services. It's nice to have a cantor, but generally any knowledgeable
congregant can lead a Jewish service. Jews can also pray alone though
certain prayers require a quorum of 10.

The word "rabbi" translates to "teacher" and a rabbi's main job is not
to lead religious services, butto answer the questions of his
congregation (or followers) about religious practices.

>> This is how she chooses to practice her religion. If she doesn't eat the
>> bread and says the prayers, she will have considered herself as having
>> committed a sin.
>
> Praying to God while not endangering one's health is not a sin.

It will be difficult for most people to understand the culture
surrounding the way many orthodox practice their religion. Many Jews
don't understand it so I don't expect a non-Jew would be able to.

>> Let's leave it, please.
>
> I don't think we should; it cuts to the core of what it means to live with
> diabetes while trying to be religious.
>

....which is why I responded.


--
Janet Wilder
Way-the-heck-south Texas
Spelling doesn't count. Cooking does.

"Ellen K." wrote

> It is not required to eat bread at all, so there is no rule that needs to
> be waived.

> The issue is that certain prayers are only said if one eats within a
> certain timeframe a defined minimum quantity of something qualifying as
> bread, and since I find those prayers very meaningful, I am trying to find
> a way to be able to eat something that qualifies as bread, in a sufficient
> quantity to be able to say those prayers, at least at the sabbath meals,
> because I find that enhances my sabbath experience.

Ellen, would it be ok to ask what the specific diet requires and what
options you may have? It's possible one of us can find a 'bread' that is ok
for it and a recipe to match since there might be an issue with the one
normally used.

Things in my mind are 100% whole wheat may work better and you could make it
at home then bring it with you. (If there is some sort of blessing over it
expected, perhaps the rabbi could do that on the side earlier?).

Your mental happiness at sabbath is as important as any other aspect of your
overall person heath. So, maybe if you can explain what it needs to be, one
of us can find out how to make it in a way that is acceptable for your
medical and overall person health needs?

"Nick Cramer" > wrote in message
...
>
> I read your earlier post to Janet, Ellen. What I see is that you're having
> difficulty accepting the restrictions that your diabetes is having on your
> partaking in and enjoyment of your religion. Only you, with whatever
> guidance you find appropriate, can decide that.
>
> L'shanah tovah,
>
> --

Thanks, Nick. As I just posted to Carol, the experimenting I am doing is
really no different from the experimenting a diabetic might make with
respect to any other food s/he may wish to eat but can no longer eat in the
form s/he ate it prior to diagnosis.

"Ellen K." > wrote in message
...
>
> "Ozgirl" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>>
>> "Ellen K." > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "Ozgirl" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Ellen K." > wrote in message
>>>> news >>>>> I've raised the carbs already by switching from romaine to green
>>>>> pepper (roughly net 2 to net 5), and the past two days I even
>>>>> added a couple stalks of celery.
>>>>>
>>>>> What's your theory behind a different protein+fat rather than the
>>>>> cheese?
>>>>
>>>> Nothing other than trying all angles, lol. Who knows, you might do
>>>> better with eggs than cheese, or not...
>>>>
>>>
>>> I must say, I have found it interesting that several people have
>>> commented "That's a lot of cheese", but if someone posts that they
>>> ate three eggs or three ounces of meat, nobody says "That's a lot of
>>> eggs" or "That's a lot of meat".
>>
>> I don't know about anyone else but 3 ounces of cheese at a time is
>> not something I would like. I can easily eat 3 eggs though. Its the
>> texture, the fat etc. Plus past experience with cheese and migraines
>> is another deterrent.
>>
>
> Ah, so at least in your case it's really about personal preference.
> Thanks for clarifying that.
>
> I wouldn't be up for just chomping into a three-ounce chunk of cheese,
> but based on something Julie once posted I got the idea to slice it
> into little slices (i.e. slice it the short way, a slice is maybe 3/4"
> x 2" x 1/8") and eat them slowly, interspersed with the romaine or
> green pepper. It takes me about 35 minutes to eat all of it.

Not so easy with Romaine but with Iceberg I make lettuce rollups. I
would grate the cheeses, chop the peppers and roll it all up in the
large crisp leaves.
>

"Ozgirl" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> "Ellen K." > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Ozgirl" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>>
>>> "Ellen K." > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> "Ozgirl" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Ellen K." > wrote in message
>>>>> news >>>>>> I've raised the carbs already by switching from romaine to green
>>>>>> pepper (roughly net 2 to net 5), and the past two days I even added a
>>>>>> couple stalks of celery.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What's your theory behind a different protein+fat rather than the
>>>>>> cheese?
>>>>>
>>>>> Nothing other than trying all angles, lol. Who knows, you might do
>>>>> better with eggs than cheese, or not...
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I must say, I have found it interesting that several people have
>>>> commented "That's a lot of cheese", but if someone posts that they ate
>>>> three eggs or three ounces of meat, nobody says "That's a lot of eggs"
>>>> or "That's a lot of meat".
>>>
>>> I don't know about anyone else but 3 ounces of cheese at a time is not
>>> something I would like. I can easily eat 3 eggs though. Its the texture,
>>> the fat etc. Plus past experience with cheese and migraines is another
>>> deterrent.
>>>
>>
>> Ah, so at least in your case it's really about personal preference.
>> Thanks for clarifying that.
>>
>> I wouldn't be up for just chomping into a three-ounce chunk of cheese,
>> but based on something Julie once posted I got the idea to slice it into
>> little slices (i.e. slice it the short way, a slice is maybe 3/4" x 2" x
>> 1/8") and eat them slowly, interspersed with the romaine or green pepper.
>> It takes me about 35 minutes to eat all of it.
>
> Not so easy with Romaine but with Iceberg I make lettuce rollups. I would
> grate the cheeses, chop the peppers and roll it all up in the large crisp
> leaves.
>>

Funny you should mention rollups, last night I really considered making
roast beef "sandwiches" from my leftover shoulder roast, using romaine
leaves instead of bread... then I decided nah, I'll just warm it up.

On 14/09/2010 5:29 AM, Ellen K. wrote:
>
> "Orlando Enrique Fiol" > wrote in message
> . ..
>>
>> I'm sorry that her diabetes is giving her a hard time. But if her body
>> cannot
>> handle the carbs from the requisite sabbath bread, she must find a
>> religious
>> justification not to eat it. It's just that simple.
>>
>
> I've already posted that the bread is NOT a "requisite".
>
> I've also already posted that due to my body's propensity to kidney
> stones, I drink water every Yom Kippur, the strictest fast day of the
> year, and that it's as required for me to drink the water as it is for
> others to abstain. Your repeated implications that my religion would
> require me to endanger my health are 180 degrees from the truth, yet you
> persist despite my having previously answered you that saving a life
> takes precedence over all other requirements.
>
> Finally, as I just posted to Carol, I am perfectly willing to skip the
> bread altogether if I determine I can't properly control my BG
> otherwise. I am currently in the process of EXPERIMENTING to learn
> whether / how I can do this. I will make the decision based on what my
> meter reports.
>
> This is not a comparative religions newsgroup. Accordingly, I am not
> going to engage in discussion about the relative merits of my or any
> other religion. I would appreciate your showing the courtesy of
> desisting from further denigrations of the religion I choose to observe,
> and which my ancestors have been following for the past approximately
> 3300 years.
>

Good for you :-)

(- -)
=m=(_)=m=
RodS T2
Australia

"Ellen K." > wrote in message
news
> Funny you should mention rollups, last night I really considered making
> roast beef "sandwiches" from my leftover shoulder roast, using romaine
> leaves instead of bread... then I decided nah, I'll just warm it up.

Many years ago, I worked with a diabetic and that is how she ate her
sandwiches. She often brought in a cooked hamburger patty, heated it in the
microwave and put lettuce on either side.

"RodS" > wrote in message
...
> On 14/09/2010 5:29 AM, Ellen K. wrote:
>>
>> "Orlando Enrique Fiol" > wrote in message
>> . ..
>>>
>>> I'm sorry that her diabetes is giving her a hard time. But if her body
>>> cannot
>>> handle the carbs from the requisite sabbath bread, she must find a
>>> religious
>>> justification not to eat it. It's just that simple.
>>>
>>
>> I've already posted that the bread is NOT a "requisite".
>>
>> I've also already posted that due to my body's propensity to kidney
>> stones, I drink water every Yom Kippur, the strictest fast day of the
>> year, and that it's as required for me to drink the water as it is for
>> others to abstain. Your repeated implications that my religion would
>> require me to endanger my health are 180 degrees from the truth, yet you
>> persist despite my having previously answered you that saving a life
>> takes precedence over all other requirements.
>>
>> Finally, as I just posted to Carol, I am perfectly willing to skip the
>> bread altogether if I determine I can't properly control my BG
>> otherwise. I am currently in the process of EXPERIMENTING to learn
>> whether / how I can do this. I will make the decision based on what my
>> meter reports.
>>
>> This is not a comparative religions newsgroup. Accordingly, I am not
>> going to engage in discussion about the relative merits of my or any
>> other religion. I would appreciate your showing the courtesy of
>> desisting from further denigrations of the religion I choose to observe,
>> and which my ancestors have been following for the past approximately
>> 3300 years.
>>
>
> Good for you :-)
>

Thanks.

> (- -)
> =m=(_)=m=
> RodS T2
> Australia

but you know I was thinking it is relevant as one of the things about this
is that one must try and live ones life to the fullest while managing the
health issues, so to me, it is very interesting and informative, I aplaude
your striving to be healthy without giving up other aspects of your life
that make you a whole person, Lee
"Ellen K." > wrote in message
...
> It is not required to eat bread at all, so there is no rule that needs to
> be waived.
>
> The issue is that certain prayers are only said if one eats within a
> certain timeframe a defined minimum quantity of something qualifying as
> bread, and since I find those prayers very meaningful, I am trying to find
> a way to be able to eat something that qualifies as bread, in a sufficient
> quantity to be able to say those prayers, at least at the sabbath meals,
> because I find that enhances my sabbath experience.
>
> I did not raise this issue to the group, I feel it is not really in place
> here. I bring my DIABETES questions here, not any religious questions I
> might have.
>
> What happened was that since I had briefly discussed this previously with
> Wendy, in a post to her I mentioned as an *aside* to the breakfast
> discussion that it would be great if the 1/4 matzo worked for breakfast
> because then I would have a use for all the half matzos left over from the
> sabbath meals. Another poster jumped into the conversation and made a
> number of inaccurate statements which I felt obliged to correct, resulting
> in several more posts.
>
> At this point I would be much happier to have omitted the aside. As noted
> above, this is a DIABETES group. Everyone here has his or her own set of
> beliefs and practices, and IMO that is as it should be.
>
> "Janet" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Please forgive me if this is presumptuous, but I always had the
>> impression that the dietary and other rules of Jewish observance were
>> waived in cases where health or humanitarian concerns were present.
>> Pregnant women, et al?
>>
>>
>

in short this is a quality of life issue, having perfect physical health
without the spiritual health you need for a good quality of life is a bummer
to say the least, Lee
"cshenk" > wrote in message
...
> "Ellen K." wrote
>
>> It is not required to eat bread at all, so there is no rule that needs to
>> be waived.
>
>> The issue is that certain prayers are only said if one eats within a
>> certain timeframe a defined minimum quantity of something qualifying as
>> bread, and since I find those prayers very meaningful, I am trying to
>> find a way to be able to eat something that qualifies as bread, in a
>> sufficient quantity to be able to say those prayers, at least at the
>> sabbath meals, because I find that enhances my sabbath experience.
>
> Ellen, would it be ok to ask what the specific diet requires and what
> options you may have? It's possible one of us can find a 'bread' that is
> ok for it and a recipe to match since there might be an issue with the one
> normally used.
>
> Things in my mind are 100% whole wheat may work better and you could make
> it at home then bring it with you. (If there is some sort of blessing
> over it expected, perhaps the rabbi could do that on the side earlier?).
>
> Your mental happiness at sabbath is as important as any other aspect of
> your overall person heath. So, maybe if you can explain what it needs to
> be, one of us can find out how to make it in a way that is acceptable for
> your medical and overall person health needs?
>

the migraine would be my only deterrent, i could easily eat that much if it
weren't for the headaches, Lee
"Ozgirl" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> "Ellen K." > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Ozgirl" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>>
>>> "Ellen K." > wrote in message
>>> news >>>> I've raised the carbs already by switching from romaine to green pepper
>>>> (roughly net 2 to net 5), and the past two days I even added a couple
>>>> stalks of celery.
>>>>
>>>> What's your theory behind a different protein+fat rather than the
>>>> cheese?
>>>
>>> Nothing other than trying all angles, lol. Who knows, you might do
>>> better with eggs than cheese, or not...
>>>
>>
>> I must say, I have found it interesting that several people have
>> commented "That's a lot of cheese", but if someone posts that they ate
>> three eggs or three ounces of meat, nobody says "That's a lot of eggs" or
>> "That's a lot of meat".
>
> I don't know about anyone else but 3 ounces of cheese at a time is not
> something I would like. I can easily eat 3 eggs though. Its the texture,
> the fat etc. Plus past experience with cheese and migraines is another
> deterrent.
>
>
>

Thanks.

Meanwhile I'm happy to report that my average FBG over the past 30 days is
thankfully down to 105.2, and I've got the Friday night and Saturday lunch
bread issue under control. (Eat the 1/2 rye matzo slathered with margarine
and eat a hardboiled egg between the first bite and the remainder.) Just
like anything else a diabetic wants to find a way to eat, a little
experimenting was needed.

"Storrmmee" > wrote in message
...
> but you know I was thinking it is relevant as one of the things about this
> is that one must try and live ones life to the fullest while managing the
> health issues, so to me, it is very interesting and informative, I aplaude
> your striving to be healthy without giving up other aspects of your life
> that make you a whole person, Lee
> "Ellen K." > wrote in message
> ...
>> It is not required to eat bread at all, so there is no rule that needs to
>> be waived.
>>
>> The issue is that certain prayers are only said if one eats within a
>> certain timeframe a defined minimum quantity of something qualifying as
>> bread, and since I find those prayers very meaningful, I am trying to
>> find a way to be able to eat something that qualifies as bread, in a
>> sufficient quantity to be able to say those prayers, at least at the
>> sabbath meals, because I find that enhances my sabbath experience.
>>
>> I did not raise this issue to the group, I feel it is not really in place
>> here. I bring my DIABETES questions here, not any religious questions I
>> might have.
>>
>> What happened was that since I had briefly discussed this previously with
>> Wendy, in a post to her I mentioned as an *aside* to the breakfast
>> discussion that it would be great if the 1/4 matzo worked for breakfast
>> because then I would have a use for all the half matzos left over from
>> the sabbath meals. Another poster jumped into the conversation and made
>> a number of inaccurate statements which I felt obliged to correct,
>> resulting in several more posts.
>>
>> At this point I would be much happier to have omitted the aside. As
>> noted above, this is a DIABETES group. Everyone here has his or her own
>> set of beliefs and practices, and IMO that is as it should be.
>>
>> "Janet" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Please forgive me if this is presumptuous, but I always had the
>>> impression that the dietary and other rules of Jewish observance were
>>> waived in cases where health or humanitarian concerns were present.
>>> Pregnant women, et al?
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>

wonderful you are working it all out, Lee
"Ellen K." > wrote in message
...
> Thanks.
>
> Meanwhile I'm happy to report that my average FBG over the past 30 days is
> thankfully down to 105.2, and I've got the Friday night and Saturday lunch
> bread issue under control. (Eat the 1/2 rye matzo slathered with
> margarine and eat a hardboiled egg between the first bite and the
> remainder.) Just like anything else a diabetic wants to find a way to
> eat, a little experimenting was needed.
>
> "Storrmmee" > wrote in message
> ...
>> but you know I was thinking it is relevant as one of the things about
>> this is that one must try and live ones life to the fullest while
>> managing the health issues, so to me, it is very interesting and
>> informative, I aplaude your striving to be healthy without giving up
>> other aspects of your life that make you a whole person, Lee
>> "Ellen K." > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> It is not required to eat bread at all, so there is no rule that needs
>>> to be waived.
>>>
>>> The issue is that certain prayers are only said if one eats within a
>>> certain timeframe a defined minimum quantity of something qualifying as
>>> bread, and since I find those prayers very meaningful, I am trying to
>>> find a way to be able to eat something that qualifies as bread, in a
>>> sufficient quantity to be able to say those prayers, at least at the
>>> sabbath meals, because I find that enhances my sabbath experience.
>>>
>>> I did not raise this issue to the group, I feel it is not really in
>>> place here. I bring my DIABETES questions here, not any religious
>>> questions I might have.
>>>
>>> What happened was that since I had briefly discussed this previously
>>> with Wendy, in a post to her I mentioned as an *aside* to the breakfast
>>> discussion that it would be great if the 1/4 matzo worked for breakfast
>>> because then I would have a use for all the half matzos left over from
>>> the sabbath meals. Another poster jumped into the conversation and made
>>> a number of inaccurate statements which I felt obliged to correct,
>>> resulting in several more posts.
>>>
>>> At this point I would be much happier to have omitted the aside. As
>>> noted above, this is a DIABETES group. Everyone here has his or her own
>>> set of beliefs and practices, and IMO that is as it should be.
>>>
>>> "Janet" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> Please forgive me if this is presumptuous, but I always had the
>>>> impression that the dietary and other rules of Jewish observance were
>>>> waived in cases where health or humanitarian concerns were present.
>>>> Pregnant women, et al?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>