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Old 07-09-2010, 05:40 PM posted to alt.food.diabetic
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Default Ellen's breakfast vis-?-vis morning readings

On 9/7/2010 12:09 AM, Ellen K. wrote:
Janet,

Your family experience may be prescriptive for you. It is not
prescriptive for me.

If you are interested to learn more about the issues I mentioned, here
are two url's you can look at:

http://www.friendswithdiabetes.org/guides.html - download the pdf
Tishrei 5764 part 2 in the Tishrei section. This is written from the
(litvishe) Ashkenazi standpoint, does not mention that anyone else holds
differently, and includes in a box on page 2 some examples of how big a
kezayis is for different bread types according to this shita.

http://www.berachot.org/halacha/13_shiurkazayis.html
The first part of this goes into quite some detail about the (litvishe)
Ashkenazi method of calculating a kezayis. Toward the bottom of the page
the Sephardi method is discussed. Near the top they also have a diagram
illustrating how different a kezayis looks depending on the original
shape of the food, i.e. a kezayis of matzo looks a lot bigger (still by
the Ashkenazi method). In the middle of the page are detailed
explanations of how to calculate a kezayis for different shapes of foods
according to the Ashkenazi shita.

Here are a few important sentences from this article, which the author
notes are summarized from Rav Bodner's "Halachos of K'zayis":

"if someone ate less then a k'zayis of bread he is not required, nor
PERMITED to bentch."

"Knowing how much food equals k'zayis is not an easy matter. A k'zayis
is a measure of volume. (Volume - the amount of space the item
occupies). Two items which when measured have the same volume; will
often not be perceived as such."
"The Mishna Berura and most Poskim rule that with regard to brocha
achrona we adopt the most stringent view, not to make a brocha achrona
unless one ate an amount equal to an egg."

Thank you,



Ellen,

I'm sure you have to do what your heart tells you to do.

I can't eat even the tiniest bite of matzoh. I have half a tongue and
diminished saliva. I choke on matzoh. I cannot chew it and I cannot
swallow it. I still participate in the seder.

I have the same problem with bread. I can manage a marble-sized piece of
challah if I compress it with my fingers.

Klal Yisrael prays for the entire nation of Israel. There are very few
prayers that are individually oriented.

I will make the bracha on matzoh at a seder because I am making it for
klal Yisrael, not just myself. The same with my less than halachic piece
of challah. I will say the bracha acharona for klal Yisrael, not myself.

I will say the al chait for a bunch of things this Yom Kippur but I can
assure you it will not be for blessing G-d for the gift of bread that I
can't, medically, eat.

BTW, this is fine with my rabbi.

Shannah Tova

--
Janet Wilder
Way-the-heck-south Texas
Spelling doesn't count. Cooking does.

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Old 07-09-2010, 07:21 PM posted to alt.food.diabetic
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Default Ellen's breakfast vis-?-vis morning readings


"Janet Wilder" wrote in message
...
On 9/7/2010 12:09 AM, Ellen K. wrote:
Janet,

Your family experience may be prescriptive for you. It is not
prescriptive for me.

If you are interested to learn more about the issues I mentioned, here
are two url's you can look at:

http://www.friendswithdiabetes.org/guides.html - download the pdf
Tishrei 5764 part 2 in the Tishrei section. This is written from the
(litvishe) Ashkenazi standpoint, does not mention that anyone else holds
differently, and includes in a box on page 2 some examples of how big a
kezayis is for different bread types according to this shita.

http://www.berachot.org/halacha/13_shiurkazayis.html
The first part of this goes into quite some detail about the (litvishe)
Ashkenazi method of calculating a kezayis. Toward the bottom of the page
the Sephardi method is discussed. Near the top they also have a diagram
illustrating how different a kezayis looks depending on the original
shape of the food, i.e. a kezayis of matzo looks a lot bigger (still by
the Ashkenazi method). In the middle of the page are detailed
explanations of how to calculate a kezayis for different shapes of foods
according to the Ashkenazi shita.

Here are a few important sentences from this article, which the author
notes are summarized from Rav Bodner's "Halachos of K'zayis":

"if someone ate less then a k'zayis of bread he is not required, nor
PERMITED to bentch."

"Knowing how much food equals k'zayis is not an easy matter. A k'zayis
is a measure of volume. (Volume - the amount of space the item
occupies). Two items which when measured have the same volume; will
often not be perceived as such."
"The Mishna Berura and most Poskim rule that with regard to brocha
achrona we adopt the most stringent view, not to make a brocha achrona
unless one ate an amount equal to an egg."

Thank you,



Ellen,

I'm sure you have to do what your heart tells you to do.


It's not a question of my heart.

I am relatively newly diagnosed and as such I am in the process of
*experimenting* with bread on Shabbos. If I can't get to an acceptable
result eating bread, I will not eat bread at the Shabbos meals, which means
I will also not say the full grace after meals. I might say it without
using Hashem's names (not substituting Hashem Elokeinu either, just omitting
them) if my rov agrees that this would be ok.

Due to a tendency to kidney stones I have to drink water on Yom Kippur. I
was hysterical the first year even though I had a painful ACTIVE stone at
the time, but I did it. I get one ounce every 11 minutes, which means I
daven the day services at home. It's as much of a mitzva for me to drink
the water as it is for others to refrain.

I can't eat even the tiniest bite of matzoh. I have half a tongue and
diminished saliva. I choke on matzoh. I cannot chew it and I cannot
swallow it. I still participate in the seder.


First of all I'm very sorry to hear about your condition, that must make
your life quite difficult in general. Given those medical issues it would
be an AVEIRA for you to eat the matzo. That doesn't mean you can't
participate in the seder, which includes many other mitzvos, at least one of
which (telling over the Exodus) thankfully does not involve eating and
therefore should definitely be able to be fulfilled.

I have the same problem with bread. I can manage a marble-sized piece of
challah if I compress it with my fingers.

Klal Yisrael prays for the entire nation of Israel. There are very few
prayers that are individually oriented.

I will make the bracha on matzoh at a seder because I am making it for
klal Yisrael, not just myself. The same with my less than halachic piece
of challah. I will say the bracha acharona for klal Yisrael, not myself.


It says in Pirkei Avos, "Aseh lecha rov", make a teacher for yourself. This
means, follow the psak of your rov. If you have an orthodox rov and this is
his psak, you should follow it.

I will say the al chait for a bunch of things this Yom Kippur but I can
assure you it will not be for blessing G-d for the gift of bread that I
can't, medically, eat.

BTW, this is fine with my rabbi.

Shannah Tova


I wish you a ksiva vachasima tova l'shana tova umesuka, with all possible
blessings, starting with good physical health.

--
Janet Wilder
Way-the-heck-south Texas
Spelling doesn't count. Cooking does.


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Old 22-09-2010, 09:11 PM posted to alt.food.diabetic
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Default Ellen's breakfast vis-?-vis morning readings

the point here is that different people learn differently and track
differently and that is why there are variations, I personally think it has
to do with learning styles, but as long as you get to enjoy food, keep the
bg in ordr and don't drive the spousal unit insane i think its all good, Lee
"Julie Bove" wrote in message
...

"Janet Wilder" wrote in message
...
On 9/5/2010 11:20 PM, Ozgirl wrote:


"Julie Bove" wrote in message
...

"Janet Wilder" wrote in message
...

We gave up on the exchange business years ago. It was impossible for
my DH to comprehend. We went back to Diabetes School and learned
"carb counting" and it was like a miracle. His weight went down, his
A1C went down and he started to enjoy his food instead of worrying
about what it was doing to him.

I don't understand why people think it is difficult. It is really no
different than carb counting except that there is less math to do.
They're really pretty much the same thing. I don't technically do the
carb counting because I don't like to do all that adding. It's just
far easier for me to think in terms of 1, 2 or 3 servings of whatever
the carb is. The Exchange Plan has never caused me to worry.

I don't count carbs per se, as in looking up carbs in a book. I would
try a piece of bread and if too high then try 1/2 a slice next time etc.
With the exchange system, to me, it is easy to swap 1 piece of bread for
2 rye crackers or whatever. The exchange lists I have seen have always
provided a list of alternatives (and amounts) for each carb serve. Was
never anything that needed weighing but stuff like milk, cereal etc
needed measuring cups, which I always have inthe house anyway. Once you
do it a few times though you get to eyeball it.




He just never could comprehend the exchange system. I think it
intimidated him. It intimidates a lot of people and that is why they came
out with carb counting. Many people, especially those who are not kitchen
cognizant, have much more success on this plan. It doesn't just count
carbs, it also teaches you how to scale portions of protein and limit
fat. I think it's much more about portion control and learning how to
recognize a portion without weighing everything. You have to admit the
exchange diet is very "weight" intense. (Which might be what scares
people)

I also have a app in my Android phone now that is for dieters, but it
gives the nutritional value of lots of stuff and especially chain
restaurant food. I look things up for him so he has an accurate count for
his pump.

When he learned carb counting, all he had to do was read a label. He
learned about carby vegetables. He learned about milk and fruit, etc.
After a while it became easy to "eye-ball" a serving and determine the
carbs. He needs to count carbs for his insulin pump, too.


All you have to do with The Exchange Plan is read a label too. And it is
still being used.



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Old 24-09-2010, 11:31 AM posted to alt.food.diabetic
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Default Ellen's breakfast vis--vis morning readings

I read this thread with great interest. just to refresh everyone, i started
reading here to educate myself because of my brother's health issues in
general and because i appear to be having signs that might lead me down the
similar path, also to assist my mom with family meals so I have two rather
basic questions i hope you all don't think are too stupid,

--what is dp and is there somewhere i can read a relaible article?

and second, i am not sure how to ask this exactly, but i didn't realise that
keeping kosher/eating rituals were so very perscribed, where can i read
about this in general, not nessarily related to health concerns, it is
fascinating to me,

thanks, Lee
"Julie Bove" wrote in message
...

"Ellen K." wrote in message
...

"Nicky" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 30 Aug 2010 13:25:42 -0700, "Ellen K."
wrote:

It needs CARBS to turn it off in the morning?

Yes, the mechanism is to turn off the release of glucose from the
liver, by having just the right amount of carbs coming in from the
digestion.


Today instead of my usual romaine lettuce, I tried a whole raw green
pepper with my cheese, i.e. about 5 gm net carbs instead of 2. Here are
my numbers:
5:58 98 This is shortly after getting up, and incidentally my
lowest FBG so far.
6:33 104 Right before breakfast. Finished the food at 7:08.
7:53 137 45 minutes after finishing the food, missed testing at
what I now think is my peak of 35 minutes because I was in the middle of
something for work.
8:18 133 70 minutes
After this didn't test again till 11:08, four hours after the food, which
was 104.

So while 137 is under the magic 140, it's still 33 points up from the
pre-breakfast value, and was probably not even the peak, although
considering that the next 25 minutes resulted in a reduction of only 4
points, maybe the peak wasn't much higher than the 137.

Any thoughts?


I'm no expert but I believe everyone's BG goes up at about the half hour
mark. I would be more concerned with the one or two hour mark.



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Old 25-09-2010, 12:30 PM posted to alt.food.diabetic
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Default Ellen's breakfast vis--vis morning readings

thanks, Lee
"[email protected]k" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 24 Sep 2010 05:31:19 -0500, "Storrmmee"
wrote:

I read this thread with great interest. just to refresh everyone, i
started
reading here to educate myself because of my brother's health issues in
general and because i appear to be having signs that might lead me down
the
similar path, also to assist my mom with family meals so I have two rather
basic questions i hope you all don't think are too stupid,

--what is dp and is there somewhere i can read a relaible article?


http://www.diabetesselfmanagement.co...wn_phenomenon/


and second, i am not sure how to ask this exactly, but i didn't realise
that
keeping kosher/eating rituals were so very perscribed, where can i read
about this in general, not nessarily related to health concerns, it is
fascinating to me,

thanks, Lee




simply go to google and enter "keeping Kosher" and "eating Kosher"





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