Diabetic (alt.food.diabetic) This group is for the discussion of controlled-portion eating plans for the dietary management of diabetes.

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  #16 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 03-01-2004, 01:15 AM
Peter C
 
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Default type 2 diabetes ng


"Brian Mailman" wrote in

Well Brian the funny thing is that the proposal i roughed out on alt.config
was Ratty's proposal which underlies this ng ( alt.support.diabetes.uk )
with "type2" added where appropriate. The mainly different bit was the
"Justification" which I should have focused on likely traffic rather than
overall general justification.
But that was also amusing - when someone quoted 2500 posts on type 2
diabetes in the last 90 days, some posters said that volume of interest
looked likely justification for the proposed group, others stated flatly
that no new ng was needed because there were already 2500 posts on the
subject in other ngs ! Very confusing.
I can't really see what useful function alt.config serves if it is so beset
with trolls who fight each other rather than weigh up proposals.



  #17 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 03-01-2004, 01:44 AM
ratzilla
 
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"Peter C" wrote in
:

But that was also amusing - when someone quoted 2500 posts on type 2
diabetes in the last 90 days, some posters said that volume of
interest looked likely justification for the proposed group, others
stated flatly that no new ng was needed because there were already
2500 posts on the subject in other ngs ! Very confusing.


Wait a minute - wasn't the person who said that 2500 was good
justification YOU? No wonder you're confused.

I can't really see what useful function alt.config serves if it is so
beset with trolls who fight each other rather than weigh up proposals.


Well, in this case, it served the "useful function" of bringing the
existing diabetes groups in on the discussion, before a potentially harmful
split was attempted without them knowing.

What's the point of continuing to rake this over? Do you still think you
have a good proposal?


  #18 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 03-01-2004, 02:52 AM
Esta Vida Nueva
 
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On Fri, 02 Jan 2004 10:23:45 +0000, Peter C posted:

sorry Adam i just followed the guidelines set out in a ng "how to .." do a
proposal. Alt.config, as i understand it, are only supposed to comment on
whether the proposal would be adequate as a control message to set up a
newsgroup.


Alt.config are "supposed to" do nothing. We are not a company, we are not
employed or contracted by anyone, we are people who happen to subscribe
here and know a fair bit about Usenet. Most alt.config regulars will help
a proponent by either telling them what their proposal needs to become
worth sending, or point out existing active newsgroups which cover the
topic in question. Both have taken place.

The posters in alt.config, who stuck to that brief, rather than
the ones who took up the wider ethical issues such as yourself , agreed that
with the deletion of one "s" and the addition of a full stop, my proposal
would have passed muster


The "Justification" you wrote was not justification.

as a control message should it have been needed.
Thank you for your input Adam, i am sure that today there are half a dozen
more proposals for you to sink your teeth into.

--
Steve alt.test FAQ Enforcer badge# 7G.H2O-L0K
mhm28x28 alt.pizza.delivery.drivers# 5t3v13-80y

http://www.petitmorte.net/stevew/
  #19 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 03-01-2004, 02:53 AM
Adam H. Kerman
 
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Peter C wrote:

sorry Adam i just followed the guidelines set out in a ng "how to .." do a
proposal.


What FAQ is that?

Alt.config, as i understand it, are only supposed to comment on whether
the proposal would be adequate as a control message to set up a newsgroup.


alt.config is an ordinary newsgroup. The main topic is discussion of proposals
for new alt groups and their potential impact on existing groups. What made
you think there would be no discussion?

The posters in alt.config, who stuck to that brief, rather than the ones
who took up the wider ethical issues such as yourself , agreed that with
the deletion of one "s" and the addition of a full stop, my proposal would
have passed muster as a control message should it have been needed.


You had your ass kissed by Eugene; he likes doing that. It's especially
sad when he plays his little games with proponents whose actions could
have serious consequences for the users of valuable newsgroups. There are
actually a few such groups on Usenet. The diabetes groups are among those. If
you care about decent discussion of diabetes at all, I'd urge you to make
improving the quality of discussion your first consideration. Sometimes,
the best way to do that is to participate in existing newsgroups.

Thank you for your input Adam, i am sure that today there are half a dozen
more proposals for you to sink your teeth into.


The point is that the proponent needs to take pride in his own work and make
an effort to understand the true needs of those discussing the topic.
  #20 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 03-01-2004, 03:06 AM
Adam H. Kerman
 
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Default type 2 diabetes ng

Peter C wrote:

Well Brian the funny thing is that the proposal i roughed out on alt.config
was Ratty's proposal which underlies this ng ( alt.support.diabetes.uk )
with "type2" added where appropriate. The mainly different bit was the
"Justification" which I should have focused on likely traffic rather than
overall general justification.


Sorry, dude, but there are different kinds of proposals, just like there are
different kinds of diabetes. The quality of DISCUSSION is the paramount issue,
not appeasing the proponent's ego.

As it happens, Type 1 and Type 2 diabetes are discussed together, They are the
main topics of several existing newsgroups. You didn't bother to ask any of
the hundreds of people discussing diabetes if they wanted to split out the
discussion of Type 1 and Type 2, if they wanted yet another diabetes group.

But that was also amusing - when someone quoted 2500 posts on type 2
diabetes in the last 90 days, some posters said that volume of interest
looked likely justification for the proposed group, others stated flatly
that no new ng was needed because there were already 2500 posts on the
subject in other ngs ! Very confusing.


For the twelth time, I pointed out that there were NUMEROUS Type 2 messages to
counter your misrepresentation that Type 2 could not be successfully discussed
in any of the existing newsgroups, that therefore, yet another diabetes group
was needed.

In the case of a split, which this is, the existing users have to support the
proponent. The raw numbers of messages are less important than whether a
consensus to split the newsgroup exists.

You have no support. Please withdraw the proposal.

I can't really see what useful function alt.config serves if it is so beset
with trolls who fight each other rather than weigh up proposals.


Said by a proponent who failed to weigh the feelings and needs of the users of
the existing groups before attempting to force them to change their posting
habits.


  #21 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 03-01-2004, 03:13 AM
Esta Vida Nueva
 
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Default type 2 diabetes ng

On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 02:53:46 +0000, Adam H. Kerman posted:

Peter C wrote:

sorry Adam i just followed the guidelines set out in a ng "how to .." do a
proposal.


What FAQ is that?

Alt.config, as i understand it, are only supposed to comment on whether
the proposal would be adequate as a control message to set up a newsgroup.


alt.config is an ordinary newsgroup. The main topic is discussion of proposals
for new alt groups and their potential impact on existing groups. What made
you think there would be no discussion?

The posters in alt.config, who stuck to that brief, rather than the ones
who took up the wider ethical issues such as yourself , agreed that with
the deletion of one "s" and the addition of a full stop, my proposal would
have passed muster as a control message should it have been needed.


You had your ass kissed by Eugene; he likes doing that. It's especially
sad when he plays his little games with proponents whose actions could
have serious consequences for the users of valuable newsgroups. There are
actually a few such groups on Usenet. The diabetes groups are among those. If
you care about decent discussion of diabetes at all, I'd urge you to make
improving the quality of discussion your first consideration. Sometimes,
the best way to do that is to participate in existing newsgroups.


Having said that, I have a funny feeling Peter thinks that if you create a
newsgroup you are in-charge of it. Perhaps Peter wants "his own" newsgroup
all to himself so he can rule and dictate.

Thank you for your input Adam, i am sure that today there are half a dozen
more proposals for you to sink your teeth into.


The point is that the proponent needs to take pride in his own work and make
an effort to understand the true needs of those discussing the topic.

--
Steve alt.test FAQ Enforcer badge# 7G.H2O-L0K
mhm28x28 alt.pizza.delivery.drivers# 5t3v13-80y

http://www.petitmorte.net/stevew/
  #22 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 03-01-2004, 03:28 AM
Adam H. Kerman
 
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Default type 2 diabetes ng

Esta Vida Nueva wrote:

Having said that, I have a funny feeling Peter thinks that if you create a
newsgroup you are in-charge of it. Perhaps Peter wants "his own" newsgroup
all to himself so he can rule and dictate.


Hope he's not too lonely on his very own news server.
  #23 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 03-01-2004, 11:01 AM
Peter C
 
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"ratzilla" wrote in message What's the point of
continuing to rake this over?

so why dont you STFU ?


  #24 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 03-01-2004, 11:44 AM
ratzilla
 
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"Peter C" wrote in news:[email protected]
126567.news.uni-berlin.de:


"ratzilla" wrote in message What's the point of
continuing to rake this over?

so why dont you STFU ?


I take it that means "there's no point", then. Bye bye.




  #25 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 03-01-2004, 02:42 PM
Esta Vida Nueva
 
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Default type 2 diabetes ng

On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 11:01:50 +0000, Peter C posted:


"ratzilla" wrote in message What's the point of
continuing to rake this over?

so why dont you STFU ?


Why *are* you still here?

--
Steve alt.test FAQ Enforcer badge# 7G.H2O-L0K
mhm28x28 alt.pizza.delivery.drivers# 5t3v13-80y

http://www.petitmorte.net/stevew/


  #26 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 03-01-2004, 04:21 PM
dvus
 
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Default type 2 diabetes ng

Peter C wrote:
"ratzilla" wrote:


What's the point of continuing to rake this over?


so why dont you STFU ?


Why, so you can misrepresent the facts and have no one dispute it?

The fact is that you asked what was the "point" of alt.config and
ratzilla pointed out that:
"in this case, it served the "useful function" of bringing the existing
diabetes groups in on the discussion, before a potentially harmful split
was attempted without them knowing."

I don't see you addressing this important "function" ac served in this
case, I just see you ignoring it and telling him to "STFU". The truth
hurts, as they say.

dvus




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