I finally got around to trying out Dreamfields pasta. What a waste of
money. It made no noticeable difference to my blood glucose levels,
but for what one pound of it costs, I can get two to four pounds
(depending on current sales prices) of either regular Barilla or
Prince.

--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol

"If I am ever the Hero top 100 list: #3. When the Evil Overlord takes
hostages, I will presume the hostages dead and hold a memorial service.
Any promises made by the Evil Overlord regarding their safe return
shall be summarily ignored. My loved ones will be warned to expect
this.

On Sat, 22 Sep 2007 09:55:41 -0400, Jeffrey Kaplan >
wrote:

>I finally got around to trying out Dreamfields pasta. What a waste of
>money. It made no noticeable difference to my blood glucose levels,
>but for what one pound of it costs, I can get two to four pounds
>(depending on current sales prices) of either regular Barilla or
>Prince.

This is a very YMMV thing. Ordinary or reduced carb pasta of various
kinds spike me big-time; Dreamfields keeps me absolutely level at
pre-meal numbers out to 5-6 hours. Lovely stuff. And I can cook a box
for the whole family, zero fuss.

Nicky.
T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
D&E, 100ug thyroxine
Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25

Jeffrey Kaplan wrote:
> I finally got around to trying out Dreamfields pasta. What a waste of
> money. It made no noticeable difference to my blood glucose levels,
> but for what one pound of it costs, I can get two to four pounds
> (depending on current sales prices) of either regular Barilla or
> Prince.
>

That's a shame, Jeffery. I guess not everyone tolerates it the same. My
DH does so we use it. We use half of the huge 2 oz dry portions on the box.

--
Janet Wilder
Bad spelling. Bad punctuation
Good Friends. Good Life

On Sat, 22 Sep 2007 09:55:41 -0400, Jeffrey Kaplan
> wrote:

>I finally got around to trying out Dreamfields pasta. What a waste of
>money. It made no noticeable difference to my blood glucose levels,
>but for what one pound of it costs, I can get two to four pounds
>(depending on current sales prices) of either regular Barilla or
>Prince.

I've never eaten the stuff, so can't comment on the
comparison.

Which BG's were you measuring? Fasting, 1hr, 2hr, 3hr?


Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com

> That's a shame, Jeffery. I guess not everyone tolerates it the same.
> My
> DH does so we use it. We use half of the huge 2 oz dry portions on the
> box.
>
> --
> Janet Wilder
> Bad spelling. Bad punctuation
> Good Friends. Good Life

Janet, I have to agree. My first problems with Dreamfields were only
because I didn't follow the instructions. DO NOT over cook it. We are
on our 3rd CASE of this stuff. It is excellent, tastes better than
"regular" pasta and if you order thru Netrition.com it is not that
expensive ($2.49 any type). I have 3 neighbors that combine their
smaller orders with my monthly to take advantage of their cheap
shipping. There are only a few things that make diabetes tolerable for
me. This is one, the other is CarbQuik (the BEST pancakes!). Don't let
this guy deter you from trying something that is really great.

Cheers, Wizzzer

It is alleged that Janet Wilder claimed:

> That's a shame, Jeffery. I guess not everyone tolerates it the same. My
> DH does so we use it. We use half of the huge 2 oz dry portions on the box.

Well, I can look at it this way: Dreamfields is significantly more
expensive, so I'm saving money!

--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol

"If I am ever the Hero top 100 list: #3. When the Evil Overlord takes
hostages, I will presume the hostages dead and hold a memorial service.
Any promises made by the Evil Overlord regarding their safe return
shall be summarily ignored. My loved ones will be warned to expect
this.

It is alleged that Susan claimed:

> Results with Dreamfields are highly variable among DMs. Some, like
> Nicky, have good results, many of us don't spike til the third or fourth
> post meal hour and the spike is long lasting.

My elevated level was measured pre-bed, about 4 or so hours after
dinner. I did not test at 2 hours, because I forgot.

--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol

"If I am ever the Hero top 100 list: #3. When the Evil Overlord takes
hostages, I will presume the hostages dead and hold a memorial service.
Any promises made by the Evil Overlord regarding their safe return
shall be summarily ignored. My loved ones will be warned to expect
this.

It is alleged that Alan S claimed:

> I've never eaten the stuff, so can't comment on the
> comparison.
>
> Which BG's were you measuring? Fasting, 1hr, 2hr, 3hr?

I test twice a day, "fasting" and then some other time, either 2hrs
after a meal or before bed. This one was a pre-bed measurement, about
4hrs after the meal.

--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol

"If I am ever the Hero top 100 list: #3. When the Evil Overlord takes
hostages, I will presume the hostages dead and hold a memorial service.
Any promises made by the Evil Overlord regarding their safe return
shall be summarily ignored. My loved ones will be warned to expect
this.

"Jeffrey Kaplan" > wrote in message
...
>I finally got around to trying out Dreamfields pasta. What a waste of
> money. It made no noticeable difference to my blood glucose levels,
> but for what one pound of it costs, I can get two to four pounds
> (depending on current sales prices) of either regular Barilla or
> Prince.

It raised my BG higher than normal pasta does. And I didn't much like the
taste of it.

Jeffrey Kaplan wrote:
> It is alleged that Janet Wilder claimed:
>
>> That's a shame, Jeffery. I guess not everyone tolerates it the same. My
>> DH does so we use it. We use half of the huge 2 oz dry portions on the box.
>
> Well, I can look at it this way: Dreamfields is significantly more
> expensive, so I'm saving money!
>

It is quite expensive, but for those DM's who tolerate it well, it's a
way to work an otherwise "forbidden" food into their meal plan.

DH has tested it 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 hours PP and he's been level.

Lots of folks here do great with Carb-Quick baking mix and my DH spiked
with it. Go figure.

Everyone is different, that's why it's so important for each person to
test.
--
Janet Wilder
Bad spelling. Bad punctuation
Good Friends. Good Life

Works as advertised for me so is NOT a waste of money when i can enjoy pasta
again.

KROM

"Jeffrey Kaplan" > wrote in message
...
>I finally got around to trying out Dreamfields pasta. What a waste of
> money. It made no noticeable difference to my blood glucose levels,
> but for what one pound of it costs, I can get two to four pounds
> (depending on current sales prices) of either regular Barilla or
> Prince.
>
> --
> Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
> The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol
>
> "If I am ever the Hero top 100 list: #3. When the Evil Overlord takes
> hostages, I will presume the hostages dead and hold a memorial service.
> Any promises made by the Evil Overlord regarding their safe return
> shall be summarily ignored. My loved ones will be warned to expect
> this.

On Sat, 22 Sep 2007 22:57:44 -0400, Jeffrey Kaplan
> wrote:

>I test twice a day, "fasting" and then some other time, either 2hrs
>after a meal or before bed. This one was a pre-bed measurement, about
>4hrs after the meal.

Do what you wish, of course. It's hard to see what useful
info you can learn from that. This worked for me:
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/20...ew-adjust.html


Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com

Jeffrey Kaplan wrote:
> It is alleged that Susan claimed:
>
>> Results with Dreamfields are highly variable among DMs. Some, like
>> Nicky, have good results, many of us don't spike til the third or fourth
>> post meal hour and the spike is long lasting.
>
> My elevated level was measured pre-bed, about 4 or so hours after
> dinner. I did not test at 2 hours, because I forgot.
>

Low gut digestion. Join the club. :-)

It's unfortunate, because husband and I both found it acceptable taste
wise. Back to cutting cut reg. pasta with veg.

Vicki

On Sat, 22 Sep 2007 22:57:44 -0400, Jeffrey Kaplan >
wrote:

>I test twice a day, "fasting" and then some other time, either 2hrs
>after a meal or before bed.

Whatever for? Waste of strips... fasting's to tell your doc whether or
not you're deteriorating, one a week would do him. Post-meal numbers
are for your benefit, to see if you judged the menu right and/or if
you need to take some extra exercise - and for that you need to test
at your peak, usually about an hour afterwards (although Dreamfields
is an exception to that, as you found out! Pizza is another). If you
only get two strips a day on prescription, check out AlanS's website
where he has a rotating schedule that allows you to do test on a
budget.

Nicky.
T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
D&E, 100ug thyroxine
Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25

For Brits who can tolerate it - I've discovered that Dreamfields have
set up a UK web site. If you order from it, the order is filled from
lowcarbmegastore.com.

http://www.dreamfieldsfoods.co.uk/ - 5-pack multi pack for £15.75 and
free delivery as opposed to £14.75 + £5pp from lowcarbmegastore.
Larger pack sizes are available.

Also, the dreamfields site is happy to play with firefox, which
lowcarbmegastore can't. I always remember this AFTER I've clicked on
"checkout" and it fails... grrrr..

Nicky.
T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
D&E, 100ug thyroxine
Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25

It is alleged that Janet Wilder claimed:

> > Well, I can look at it this way: Dreamfields is significantly more
> > expensive, so I'm saving money!
> It is quite expensive, but for those DM's who tolerate it well, it's a
> way to work an otherwise "forbidden" food into their meal plan.

If it worked for me, I would not begrudge the cost. But since it
doesn't, I can save money.

--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol

"We will not have an all-volunteer army." - George W. Bush, Oct, 2004

Wizzzer wrote:
>
>> That's a shame, Jeffery. I guess not everyone tolerates it the same. My
>> DH does so we use it. We use half of the huge 2 oz dry portions on the
>> box.
>>
>> --
>> Janet Wilder
>> Bad spelling. Bad punctuation
>> Good Friends. Good Life
>
> Janet, I have to agree. My first problems with Dreamfields were only
> because I didn't follow the instructions. DO NOT over cook it. We are
> on our 3rd CASE of this stuff. It is excellent, tastes better than
> "regular" pasta and if you order thru Netrition.com it is not that
> expensive ($2.49 any type). I have 3 neighbors that combine their
> smaller orders with my monthly to take advantage of their cheap
> shipping. There are only a few things that make diabetes tolerable for
> me. This is one, the other is CarbQuik (the BEST pancakes!). Don't let
> this guy deter you from trying something that is really great.
>
> Cheers, Wizzzer

Wizzzer,

Have you tried making lo-mein with the spaghetti? I add lots of veggies
like cabbage, a few bean sprouts and mushrooms and a little grated
carrot. It stretches the pasta and is a delicious side dish with
stir-fries instead of the evil rice. I'll post the recipe.

We can get all of the shapes in our local supermarket except for
linguine. I can find that in New Jersey where my kids live. I came home
from our visit in July with 6 boxes in the trunk of the car.

DH loves being able to eat lasagna again, but it's not a frequent item
on the menu.

--
Janet Wilder
Bad spelling. Bad punctuation
Good Friends. Good Life

It is alleged that Alan S claimed:

> >I test twice a day, "fasting" and then some other time, either 2hrs
> >after a meal or before bed. This one was a pre-bed measurement, about
> >4hrs after the meal.
>
> Do what you wish, of course. It's hard to see what useful
> info you can learn from that. This worked for me:

It's what my doctor told me to do. And it does seem to be working for
me. My BG is under control, as confirmed by what she said at my last
appointment. And the weight is also coming off, slowly but surely.

If you're suggesting testing more often, my health insurance won't pay
for that many strips unless my condition gets worse.

--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol

"Learn the art of patience. Apply discipline to your thoughts when they
become anxious over the outcome of a goal. Impatience breeds anxiety,
fear, discouragement and failure. Patience creates confidence,
decisiveness, and a rational outlook, which eventually leads to
success." (Brian Adams)

Nicky wrote:
> For Brits who can tolerate it - I've discovered that Dreamfields have
> set up a UK web site. If you order from it, the order is filled from
> lowcarbmegastore.com.
>
> http://www.dreamfieldsfoods.co.uk/ - 5-pack multi pack for £15.75 and
> free delivery as opposed to £14.75 + £5pp from lowcarbmegastore.
> Larger pack sizes are available.
>
> Also, the dreamfields site is happy to play with firefox, which
> lowcarbmegastore can't. I always remember this AFTER I've clicked on
> "checkout" and it fails... grrrr..

Nicky, download the Firefox plug in called IE Tab. Set it to always go
to IE (Internet Explorer) for that web site. I find it really helpful
for the one or two sites that won't play with FF.


--
Janet Wilder
Bad spelling. Bad punctuation
Good Friends. Good Life

On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 10:52:11 -0500, Janet Wilder
> wrote:

>Nicky, download the Firefox plug in called IE Tab. Set it to always go
>to IE (Internet Explorer) for that web site. I find it really helpful
>for the one or two sites that won't play with FF.

Yeah, I had it, then had to rebuild my PC, and have been too lazy to
set it up again - I guess I should do it right now, shouldn't I!

Nicky.
T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
D&E, 100ug thyroxine
Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25

On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 11:46:46 -0400, Jeffrey Kaplan
> wrote:

>
>It's what my doctor told me to do. And it does seem to be working for
>me. My BG is under control, as confirmed by what she said at my last
>appointment. And the weight is also coming off, slowly but surely.
>
>If you're suggesting testing more often, my health insurance won't pay
>for that many strips unless my condition gets worse.

I've always felt it was OK to exceed the doctor's minima.
Last try, then I'll bother you no mo-)
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/20...on-budget.html


Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com

> DH loves being able to eat lasagna again, but it's not a frequent item
> on the menu.
>
> --
> Janet Wilder
> Bad spelling. Bad punctuation
> Good Friends. Good Life

Hi Janet,

I did the lasagna (where you don't cook the noodles) using
Dreamfields and it was great! If someone has one that does not require
all of the water, please post it. This one (from a friend) said to
"pour water into the corner of the 9x12 pan until it was over the second
layer of noodles". It was way too much, but I poured off the extra
liquid and it was really tasty.

I have a casserole of my mother's that Dreamfield's works great in.
You don't have to cook either the hamburger or the pasta. I was a bit
leery of that at first, but after 14 yrs I got over it. Just toss all
of the ingredients in a bowl. Any kind of pasta works, penne, spiral,
or elbow. My mother used medium shells, but Dreamfields hasn't made
them yet. (She was the mem-rep of the Prodigy Food & Wine BB - WI
Gramma). I use the Dreamfields spiral noodles and it works great.

Cheers, Wizzzer

"Wizzzer" > wrote in message
...
>> DH loves being able to eat lasagna again, but it's not a frequent item on
>> the menu.
>>
>> --
>> Janet Wilder
>> Bad spelling. Bad punctuation
>> Good Friends. Good Life
>
> Hi Janet,
>
> I did the lasagna (where you don't cook the noodles) using Dreamfields
> and it was great! If someone has one that does not require all of the
> water, please post it. This one (from a friend) said to "pour water into
> the corner of the 9x12 pan until it was over the second layer of noodles".
> It was way too much, but I poured off the extra liquid and it was really
> tasty.
>
> I have a casserole of my mother's that Dreamfield's works great in. You
> don't have to cook either the hamburger or the pasta. I was a bit leery
> of that at first, but after 14 yrs I got over it. Just toss all of the
> ingredients in a bowl. Any kind of pasta works, penne, spiral, or elbow.
> My mother used medium shells, but Dreamfields hasn't made them yet. (She
> was the mem-rep of the Prodigy Food & Wine BB - WI Gramma). I use the
> Dreamfields spiral noodles and it works great.

I'm lost. Do you then cook all the stuff you have put in a bowl?

It is alleged that Alan S claimed:

> I've always felt it was OK to exceed the doctor's minima.
> Last try, then I'll bother you no mo-)
> http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/20...on-budget.html

While I haven't done that exact regimen, that is in essence what I had
already done. I wanted to know what different foods in my diet were
doing to my BG, so when getting started I specifically tested after
eating the food in question.

This is how I determined that while pizza is completely off-limits to
me now, I can have +almost+ as much rice as I was used to eating, when
I have rice, and that a "regular" size of fast-food french fries, at
least when eaten with other food, does not cause me to spike (haven't
tested them alone).

I am also aware that as time goes on, over the course of years, that
this may change.

--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol

"Mr. Garibaldi, you're sitting at my station, using my equipment. Is
there a reason for this or to save time, should I just go ahead and
snap your hands off at the wrist?" (Lt. Cmdr. Ivanova, B5 "Midnight on
the Firing Line")

On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 16:16:14 -0400, Jeffrey Kaplan
> wrote:

>
>While I haven't done that exact regimen, that is in essence what I had
>already done. I wanted to know what different foods in my diet were
>doing to my BG, so when getting started I specifically tested after
>eating the food in question.
>
>This is how I determined that while pizza is completely off-limits to
>me now, I can have +almost+ as much rice as I was used to eating, when
>I have rice, and that a "regular" size of fast-food french fries, at
>least when eaten with other food, does not cause me to spike (haven't
>tested them alone).
>
>I am also aware that as time goes on, over the course of years, that
>this may change.

This is the bit you may not have picked up on. Earlier you
said:

'I test twice a day, "fasting" and then some other time,
either 2hrs after a meal or before bed."'

2hrs after eating would not find my peaks from things like
rice or chips(fries); particularly if the meal was also low
or moderate fat. In fact in the early period after diagnosis
if I did have a high post-prandial BG spike I could be quite
low at two hours from reactive hypoglycemia.

Instead of just a link, I'll give my full blog entry to
explain what I mean.

http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/20...-two-hour.html

'When To Test. One-hour or Two-hour?

When we first received our brand new blood glucose meter the
majority of us were told by our doctor or qualified diabetes
educators to test twice daily - before breakfast, also known
as "fasting" and before the evening meal. Some, not many, of
us were also told to test occasionally two hours after
meals.

The "us" I speak of are the thousands of newly diagnosed
type 2's I've met in cyberspace over the past four years.
Over that time, in three diabetes usenet newsgroups, eight
Yahoo diabetes newsgroups and a couple of others via the
web, I have yet to meet a single newby who was told by their
doctor to test one hour after every meal or snack. In fact
I've only recently met a few who were advised to test one
hour after any meal at all.

So, why do I recommend that we should? Well, I must admit -
it wasn't my idea; I learnt it from Jennifer and her
Test,test,test advice.
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/NewlyDiagnosed.htm
I also learnt from Derek Paice and his e-book Diabetes and
Diet http://www.mendosa.com/DiabetesAndDiet.pdf

Any test is wasted if it neither informs nor confirms some
information. The tests prescribed by your medics are
designed to help them analyse your progress, to assist in
their decisions for your treatment - but they do very little
to help you personally manage your diabetes. The doctor
wants to see your "static" numbers, not the ones that might
be very high or low as a result of the carbs you ate, or
ignored, at your last meal.

And that's why I add those one-hour post-prandial
(after-eating) tests - they help me directly. They are the
"dynamic" numbers that showed the direct effect of the food
I ate and the exercise I did. I call them one-hour, but the
real term should be "peak" or maximum "spike"; mine is
one-hour but you'll have to find your own.

I don't think the timing of the spike is as important as
it's peak level and duration.

Think about it logically. Why would a spike of 10(180)
affect you any differently if it occurred at 30, 60, 90 or
120 minutes? It's duration would be a factor - but
post-prandial timing of the actual peak should be
irrelevant. It still got to that peak, no matter when it
occurred.

So, I learned to find my peak. That is slightly different,
but reasonably predictable, with different foods and meal
mixtures. Drinks, like OJ, spike me very quickly within 30
minutes and drop just as quickly. Which is why some people
use them as hypo treatment. Starchy carbs, without much fat,
will spike me in 30-45 minutes. But add fat - and it's about
60 minutes. A normal meal combining moderate fat, protein
and low GI carbs leads to a peak at 45-75 minutes for me,
and so on. That's why I settled on using the 1hr
post-prandial test as my guide, but I occasionally do a 30
minute one if the food was low-fat and high-GI.

As to whether a brief spike causes damage - not enough
research has been done. There appears to also be a
possibility that spikes have a damaging effect at lower
thresholds for type 2 than type 1, partly from anecdotal
discussions I've followed over the past four years and
partly from the slight differences in results in studies
like the DCCT and UKPDS. Let's face it - only type 2 have
beta cells to lose anyway. Therefore I am swayed by the
reports here, on Jenny's excellent web-page; there is enough
evidence to convince me that staying under 8(140) is worth
the effort - no matter when it occurs: Research Connecting
Organ Damage with Blood Sugar Level
http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/14045678.php

Of course, I tend to always aim a little tighter, so these
days I set the level at 7(126) for my one-hour post-prandial
maximum. What you do is up to you.'

Cheers Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg

I have no medical qualifications beyond my own experience.
Choose your advisers carefully, because experience can be
an expensive teacher.
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.

It is alleged that Alan S claimed:

> http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/20...-two-hour.html
[...]
> And that's why I add those one-hour post-prandial
> (after-eating) tests - they help me directly. They are the
> "dynamic" numbers that showed the direct effect of the food
> I ate and the exercise I did. I call them one-hour, but the
> real term should be "peak" or maximum "spike"; mine is
> one-hour but you'll have to find your own.

Every medically-trained person (my doctor, two diabetes-specialist
dieticians and a diabetes specialist nurse) I've spoken to have said
"two hours" because, according to them, that is just past the peak.
Granted, that probably means when the average person peaks and not
everyone.

> Think about it logically. Why would a spike of 10(180)
> affect you any differently if it occurred at 30, 60, 90 or
> 120 minutes? It's duration would be a factor - but
> post-prandial timing of the actual peak should be
> irrelevant. It still got to that peak, no matter when it
> occurred.

And, to be honest, I'd have to be clock-watching to do anything
different from what I'm doing now, because I'm usually engrossed in
something after dinner, be it working because I goofed off during the
day, doing something online, watching something on the tube, or
spending time with friends or family.

I'm trying to live with diabetes, with the emphasis on "live". My
"static" numbers, as you're calling them, are good and my doctor said
that my 3-month A1C confirms that I'm under good control. That is good
enough for me, I'm not looking to complicate my management any more
than necessary if I don't have to, and exact timing of testing is an
added, and for me, unnecessary, complication.

In addition to diabetes, I'm also dealing with an old back injury that
never fully healed because of arthritis. Fortunately(?) part of what's
good for one is also good for the other: Exercise.

I appreciate the intent of the advice you're giving. I'm just not
going to follow it at this time.

--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol

Peter's Top 100 Things I'd Do If I Ever Became An Evil Overlord, #56.
My Legions of Terror will be trained in basic marksmanship. Any who
cannot learn to hit a man-sized target at 10 meters will be used for
target practice.

Jeffrey Kaplan > wrote:
: It is alleged that Alan S claimed:

: > http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/20...-two-hour.html
: [...]
: > And that's why I add those one-hour post-prandial
: > (after-eating) tests - they help me directly. They are the
: > "dynamic" numbers that showed the direct effect of the food
: > I ate and the exercise I did. I call them one-hour, but the
: > real term should be "peak" or maximum "spike"; mine is
: > one-hour but you'll have to find your own.

: Every medically-trained person (my doctor, two diabetes-specialist
: dieticians and a diabetes specialist nurse) I've spoken to have said
: "two hours" because, according to them, that is just past the peak.
: Granted, that probably means when the average person peaks and not
: everyone.
:
: > Think about it logically. Why would a spike of 10(180)
: > affect you any differently if it occurred at 30, 60, 90 or
: > 120 minutes? It's duration would be a factor - but
: > post-prandial timing of the actual peak should be
: > irrelevant. It still got to that peak, no matter when it
: > occurred.

: And, to be honest, I'd have to be clock-watching to do anything
: different from what I'm doing now, because I'm usually engrossed in
: something after dinner, be it working because I goofed off during the
: day, doing something online, watching something on the tube, or
: spending time with friends or family.

: I'm trying to live with diabetes, with the emphasis on "live". My
: "static" numbers, as you're calling them, are good and my doctor said
: that my 3-month A1C confirms that I'm under good control. That is good
: enough for me, I'm not looking to complicate my management any more
: than necessary if I don't have to, and exact timing of testing is an
: added, and for me, unnecessary, complication.

: In addition to diabetes, I'm also dealing with an old back injury that
: never fully healed because of arthritis. Fortunately(?) part of what's
: good for one is also good for the other: Exercise.

: I appreciate the intent of the advice you're giving. I'm just not
: going to follow it at this time.

: --
: Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
: The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol

Once I found the eating patterntht works for me with all that anal testin
at 1 and 2 hours, I no longer have to do it so much. If I test after a
meal, I will test between one adn two hours to get a confirmation of what
I think or to make sure tht a different meal(resttaurant, other people's
house, etc) has not thrown me completel off.

Wendy

On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 22:13:17 -0400, Jeffrey Kaplan >
wrote:

>Every medically-trained person (my doctor, two diabetes-specialist
>dieticians and a diabetes specialist nurse) I've spoken to have said
>"two hours" because, according to them, that is just past the peak.

Yes, it is - for non-diabetics. Haven't you tried to find yours? Mine
is around 50 mins. Someone with gastroporesis might find it's much
later.

>I'm trying to live with diabetes, with the emphasis on "live". My
>"static" numbers, as you're calling them, are good and my doctor said
>that my 3-month A1C confirms that I'm under good control. That is good
>enough for me, I'm not looking to complicate my management any more
>than necessary if I don't have to, and exact timing of testing is an
>added, and for me, unnecessary, complication.

Well, I hope your luck holds through complication avoidance - but
you're not helping your luck. Unfortunately, the micro vascular
complications you're flirting with will allow you to live with them
all too well. Your doctor is helping you with the macrovascular heart
and stroke issues; you are risking blindness, neuropathy and kidney
failure. All of these are linked to maximum spike, not what you are at
2 hours...

Nicky.
T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
D&E, 100ug thyroxine
Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 03:00:10 +0000 (UTC), "W. Baker"
> wrote:

>
>Once I found the eating patterntht works for me with all that anal testin
>at 1 and 2 hours, I no longer have to do it so much. If I test after a
>meal, I will test between one adn two hours to get a confirmation of what
>I think or to make sure tht a different meal(resttaurant, other people's
>house, etc) has not thrown me completel off.
>
>Wendy

Me too Wendy. I still test more often than most - but most
test a few times a week at most. After that initial
"learning" phase there is no need to keep testing if the
result will be predictable. However, I still do
"maintenance" tests sporadically to be sure that I still can
predict accurately.


Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com

On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 22:13:17 -0400, Jeffrey Kaplan
> wrote:

>Every medically-trained person (my doctor, two diabetes-specialist
>dieticians and a diabetes specialist nurse) I've spoken to have said
>"two hours" because, according to them, that is just past the peak.
>Granted, that probably means when the average person peaks and not
>everyone.

Hi Jeffrey

The others have answered most of your comments for me. I'll
just leave you with something to ponder. Whatever you do is
totally up to you.

If you exceed the testing regimen that the doctors set you,
what are the negative consequences of too much testing? I'll
list some, you may think of others:

1. cost
2. annoying doctor
3. finger pain (see
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/20...ss-pricks.html)
4. worry

If they prove in 20 years that it was all a waste of time
and strips, what are the long-term negative consequences of
that? A few dollars, a memory of finger pain, a memory of
worry.

If you do what the doctors tell you, and twenty years from
now they discover that the doctors were wrong, what are the
consequences and who will wear them? Who will be the person
with the neuropathy, retinopathy, nephropathy or
cardiovascular problems - the doctors or you?

Something I repeat to newbies often: never forget that the
person who will be most affected by poor advice from any
source will be you €“ not me, not your doctor, but you. In my
opinion, more than nearly any other condition, the success
of management of diabetes depends on the diabetic. So, while
your medics can advise and prescribe €“ its your decisions
and your actions that will decide your future.

Best wishes

Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com

It is alleged that Nicky claimed:

> >Every medically-trained person (my doctor, two diabetes-specialist
> >dieticians and a diabetes specialist nurse) I've spoken to have said
> >"two hours" because, according to them, that is just past the peak.
>
> Yes, it is - for non-diabetics. Haven't you tried to find yours? Mine

No, I haven't.

> Well, I hope your luck holds through complication avoidance - but
> you're not helping your luck. Unfortunately, the micro vascular
> complications you're flirting with will allow you to live with them
> all too well. Your doctor is helping you with the macrovascular heart
> and stroke issues; you are risking blindness, neuropathy and kidney
> failure. All of these are linked to maximum spike, not what you are at
> 2 hours...

If this is the case, why don't the medical professionals say this?

--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol

"The fact that he relies on facts, says things that are not factual,
are going to undermine his campaign." George W. Bush, New York Times,
March 4, 2000

It is alleged that Alan S claimed:

> If you exceed the testing regimen that the doctors set you,
> what are the negative consequences of too much testing? I'll
> list some, you may think of others:
>
> 1. cost

This is the big one, for me, for testing more often than twice a day.
Unless/until my condition gets worse, my HMO will not authorize strip
prescriptions for more than that, and buying them on my own at $1 per
strip will get expensive fast.

> 2. annoying doctor

I don't think it would annoy my doctor.

> 3. finger pain (see

I've found that to be conditional on exactly where I jab.
Unfortunately, in order to avoid generating calluses, I have to rotate
not only which finger and which side of the finger, but where on the
side. And some places hurt more than others.

> Something I repeat to newbies often: never forget that the
> person who will be most affected by poor advice from any
> source will be you €“ not me, not your doctor, but you. In my
> opinion, more than nearly any other condition, the success
> of management of diabetes depends on the diabetic. So, while
> your medics can advise and prescribe €“ its your decisions
> and your actions that will decide your future.

Noted.

--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol

Peter's Top 100 Things I'd Do If I Ever Became An Evil Overlord, #67.
No matter how many shorts we have in the system, my guards will be
instructed to treat every surveillance camera malfunction as a full-
scale emergency.