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Diabetic (alt.food.diabetic) This group is for the discussion of controlled-portion eating plans for the dietary management of diabetes. |
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Hello!
On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 01:24:52 GMT, "Julie Bove"
> wrote: >I use the Exchange system and I know I'm not alone. That doesn't mean I eat >15 servings of carbs per day or even necessarily one whole serving. The >system does allow for 1/2 a serving, 1/4 a serving etc. Please explain why >no sane type 2 would use it? Or perhaps you just don't understand it? > I understand it very well Julie. To my mind it's really designed for insulin users to assist with dosage management, and for that purpose it may work wonderfully: http://diabetes.org/for-parents-and-.../exchanges.jsp I accept that I may have exaggerated for emphasis. However, when it was taught it as a d&e type 2 it was part of the whole system of "three carbs per meal, one for snacks, 9-12 needed daily for males, 6-9 for females". It sent my BG's through the roof, stalled my weight loss and my A1c reduction. I don't count carbs in 15gm lumps; instead I learned from "test, test, test" via my meter. Allied to that I know my limits in gms now for various meals - and none of them are related to 15gm. I don't wish to be unkind, but looking back through recent posts it's hard to consider your opening statement as a promotion for the exchange system. Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com |
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Hello!
When I was given the exchange system diet you could eat a slice of
wholegrain bread or 1 ounce (dry) of cereal - any cereal. Oats or cornflakes or sugar frosties etc.All carbs are not alike but an exchange system allows one to eat whatever 15 gr carb for a serve they wish. Yes, some do say wholegrain is better but they don't say cornflakes are no-no. I don't do well on any starches but I do better on grain bread than cornflakes or white rice. "Julie Bove" > wrote in message news:ElEJi.6029$TH2.4328@trndny06... > > "Alan S" > wrote in message > ... >> On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 23:32:15 -0000, Sean Dennis >> > wrote: >> >>>No, that's 16g a day, Alan. 1g is one serving. >> >> Sorry mate, but you've been misinformed. One "exchange" >> serving is 15gms; not that any sane type 2 uses the exchange >> system. >> >> There's probably more than one gram in a couple of >> individual cornflakes:-) > > I use the Exchange system and I know I'm not alone. That doesn't mean I > eat 15 servings of carbs per day or even necessarily one whole serving. > The system does allow for 1/2 a serving, 1/4 a serving etc. Please > explain why no sane type 2 would use it? Or perhaps you just don't > understand it? > |
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Alan S > wrote:
: On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 01:24:52 GMT, "Julie Bove" : > wrote: : >I use the Exchange system and I know I'm not alone. That doesn't mean I eat : >15 servings of carbs per day or even necessarily one whole serving. The : >system does allow for 1/2 a serving, 1/4 a serving etc. Please explain why : >no sane type 2 would use it? Or perhaps you just don't understand it? : > : I understand it very well Julie. To my mind it's really : designed for insulin users to assist with dosage management, : and for that purpose it may work wonderfully: : http://diabetes.org/for-parents-and-.../exchanges.jsp : I accept that I may have exaggerated for emphasis. However, : when it was taught it as a d&e type 2 it was part of the : whole system of "three carbs per meal, one for snacks, 9-12 : needed daily for males, 6-9 for females". : It sent my BG's through the roof, stalled my weight loss and : my A1c reduction. : I don't count carbs in 15gm lumps; instead I learned from : "test, test, test" via my meter. Allied to that I know my : limits in gms now for various meals - and none of them are : related to 15gm. : I don't wish to be unkind, but looking back through recent : posts it's hard to consider your opening statement as a : promotion for the exchange system. : Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. : d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg : Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. : -- : http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com My dietician gave me 1 1/2 carb exchabnges for breakfast, 2 for lunch and 3 for dinner with 2 1 exchange snacks, but not fruit as it might spike me so only with other food. This was part o fa weight loss program as well as diabetic control. It proved too muchfo rme so I switched to co****ing carbs, figuring 15-20grs for lunch an ddinner (occasionally 30 at dinner and my cottage cheese, fruit and yogurt breakfast which counts fairly high but seems to work for me. Wendy |
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Hello!
"Alan S" > wrote in message ... > On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 01:24:52 GMT, "Julie Bove" > > wrote: > >>I use the Exchange system and I know I'm not alone. That doesn't mean I >>eat >>15 servings of carbs per day or even necessarily one whole serving. The >>system does allow for 1/2 a serving, 1/4 a serving etc. Please explain >>why >>no sane type 2 would use it? Or perhaps you just don't understand it? >> > I understand it very well Julie. To my mind it's really > designed for insulin users to assist with dosage management, > and for that purpose it may work wonderfully: > http://diabetes.org/for-parents-and-.../exchanges.jsp > > I accept that I may have exaggerated for emphasis. However, > when it was taught it as a d&e type 2 it was part of the > whole system of "three carbs per meal, one for snacks, 9-12 > needed daily for males, 6-9 for females". > > It sent my BG's through the roof, stalled my weight loss and > my A1c reduction. > > I don't count carbs in 15gm lumps; instead I learned from > "test, test, test" via my meter. Allied to that I know my > limits in gms now for various meals - and none of them are > related to 15gm. > > I don't wish to be unkind, but looking back through recent > posts it's hard to consider your opening statement as a > promotion for the exchange system. I still use the exchange system and it works for me, when my BG isn't being wacky like it is recently. Now, NO system will work for me because it seems it doesn't matter what I eat or don't eat. I'll either go hypo or more likely have high BG. I am not promoting the Exchange system. And the Exchange system does not promote a set amount of carbs for anyone. It is merely a guide to tell you approximately what is safe for you to eat at each meal. You, meaning you as an individual. I never had diabetes education. I only saw dieticians. Three of them. All used the Exchange system when explaining the diets. I think it particularly useful for people who haven't a clue what a serving size is. And amazingly there are a lot of them out there. Especially if they are used to dining out. They make be shocked to learn that a serving of pasta is 1/2 a cup and not an entire heaping plateful. Granted there is no way for a dietician to know exactly how your body works and what exactly you can eat. That is why the diet he/she gives you is a starting point only. I believe it is an optimal diet, assuming you can eat as many carbs as is on it as written. There was a time when I could do that. I can't now. Nor can I take in as many calories as was on that diet, or even eat three meals daily for that matter. We're all different. |
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"Ozgirl" > wrote in message ... > When I was given the exchange system diet you could eat a slice of > wholegrain bread or 1 ounce (dry) of cereal - any cereal. Oats or > cornflakes or sugar frosties etc.All carbs are not alike but an exchange > system allows one to eat whatever 15 gr carb for a serve they wish. Yes, > some do say wholegrain is better but they don't say cornflakes are no-no. > > I don't do well on any starches but I do better on grain bread than > cornflakes or white rice. My plan did not say I *could* eat any of those things I wanted. It was merely pointing out what a serving size was. A general guideline. When I was pregnant, the dietician I saw gave me specific examples of foods I should not eat ever. I can't say I could follow her reasoning, but it applied to me and me alone, given the somewhat limited parameters of my diet at the time. I did not know about my food allergies, but I was attempting to do a vegetarian diet and she also took my pregnancy into account. I was never to eat peas or any cereal that had sweetener of any kind in it. I'm sure there were some other things, but they were likely things I didn't eat much to begin with so I paid them no mind. She was a big bread pusher. I was eating little to no bread before I was pregnant. I have a feeling there must be folic acid or some such thing in the bread and this is why she was so keen on it. I do remember being very burned out on bread and stopped eating it again after I had the baby. |
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"W. Baker" > wrote in message ... > My dietician gave me 1 1/2 carb exchabnges for breakfast, 2 for lunch and > 3 for dinner with 2 1 exchange snacks, but not fruit as it might spike me > so only with other food. This was part o fa weight loss program as well > as diabetic control. It proved too muchfo rme so I switched to co****ing > carbs, figuring 15-20grs for lunch an ddinner (occasionally 30 at dinner > and my cottage cheese, fruit and yogurt breakfast which counts fairly high > but seems to work for me. My last one gave me 2 carb exchanges for breakfast, 3 for lunch, 3 for dinner and 2 for bedtime snack. If I ate fruit (which I generally do not), it had to be counted as a carb exchange. Same goes for milk, although I didn't have that either. Gastroparesis aside, this is still pretty much how I would be eating today. Because of that I find I can have either breakfast or lunch but not both. I usually have breakfast then an early dinner around 3:30 or so and my snack around 11. |
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Hello!
I don't know who said that this newsgroup was inactive, but they were
wrong. Glad I have time on my hands at work. > Considering all the carbs in that cereal and milk, adding > sugar instead of Splenda would probably make no difference. > A bit like adding a can of lighter fluid to a blazing petrol > tank. Sugar makes my tongue swell, so I don't eat it much anymore, diabetes aside. I could actually do without the Splenda as I have learned to eat things without adding any additional sweetener. > Try a selection from these tomorrow: > http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/20...reakfasts.html Yes, but what no one here seems to understand is that I get sick when I eat in the mornings. It's NOT my diabetes nor is it anything to do with my health. I've never been able to eat early in the mornings as I get violently ill. I prefer to eat later when my stomach is settled. Now, as for the "carb subsitution": It's 14 grams per meal, three meals a day. However, it was recommended that I eat a small snack every 2-3 hours instead of large meals. To help everyone understand my sleep schedule and why things are off: -- I get off work at 8 AM. I head home, get there around 8:30 AM. I get to bed normally before 10 AM, but like today, sometimes I can't get to bed until noon. Here's what I take in the morning (I can't remember the dosages right off the top of my head): glizipide glimiperide (anti-lipid) 81 mg asprin (doctor's orders) Prilosec Avandia In the evening, I just take my glizipide and glimiperide. -- I will sleep 12-14 hours. Period. On a rare day, like today, I slept seven hours. But I haven't been feeling well from my bilateral carpul tunnel syndrome acting up...my hands will wake me up from a deep sleep, and I've aggrivated them lately. -- When I get up, I'm pretty damn hungry. But even then I don't eat right away. I generally check my BG then (I check it once a day, sometimes twice). -- When I'm at work, I generally have dinner at 4 AM EDT (UTC -4). I do have a small snack (usually a couple of crackers) at 0200 and 0600 to keep off the hungries. I also drink water at times to keep the hunger down. I don't always eat when I'm hungry. I usually only eat when I really feel I need to or am losing my concentration on tasks. Unless you've worked overnights, which thankfully those of you who have here do, it's hard to understand, especially being a diabetic, why I don't like to eat very much. To be honest, I've become pretty disgusted with myself and the fact that I've carried this extra weight for 10+ years (hell, not even the US Army could get it off of me!). I do eat, just not very much anymore. I know about the body converting everything into fat if you starve yourself, etc. I don't starve myself. I just don't eat much! My problem is that I tend to eat too much at times and I am consiously working on that. That's a big part of the reason I'm still heavy. I use my fist as a general serving size of nearly everything solid. I eat what is the size of my fist and I'm generally happy (and causing my stomach to shrink too). I'm telling you all that once I get into an exercise regimen, I'll be doing a LOT better. I moved a few months ago into my current home. During the time that I was moving (about two weeks), my BG dropped into the basement (around 70-80 resting). When I went back to my old ways, it shot back up to 120-150. I think that's a good enough reason to start exercising. I eat cereal in the morning because it's one of the few things I can tolerate when I get up (besides yogurt and cottage cheese, but I don't have them often). I eat very lightly the rest of the day also, so although there's a lot of carbs in the cereal, I'll wait six to seven hours sometimes before eating again. What works for you may not work for me. I take everyone's advice and I don't expect everyone to understand my situation. However, I may be back on the day shift sometime in the beginning of next year (we are severely short-handed and I'm actually doing something that isn't really part of my job). When that happens, I think things will level out. I do have the support of my wife and my family, so what I know is not all for naught. Just sometimes, I'm too damn tired to care. I am so tired, all the time, that I rarely do anything but get up, shower, dress, eat something small and go to work. My wife and I don't spend barely anytime together because I'm always asleep. One more thing: when I am reading/writing this, my brain is not at full capacity...I'm usually half-asleep when I'm writing. If I say something that doesn't make sense, that's generally the reason why and not because I'm a nincompoop about my health (explaining the 14g a day mistake). --Sean -- Sean Dennis * * http://outpostbbs.net Author of Cheepware BBS doors and sysop utilities SysOp of Outpost BBS running Telegard/2 under eComStation 1.2 |
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Hello!
> You do realise that the more often you eat those carby meals and have
> those high after meal and fasting bg's that your diabetes will > progress, in the direction you don't want it to. Canned soup, milk > (especially skimmed milk) cereal (particularly the highly processed > ones like Cornflakes, 7 carb exchanges - all are high carb and don't > do your body any favours at all. Your bg might be dropping back at the > moment but you are on a sure-fire track to it getting to the point > where it won't. See my post to Alan. I will generally eat only once or twice a day, if that. Canned soup is bad for me because of the salt, period. I'm not allowed to have that at all. I'm hypertensive also, so I'm doubly damned. So you're saying skim milk is bad? That's odd, my dietician said skim milk was the best for me out of any of them I could have. I don't drink milk much anymore, either. Considering that my BG was running at 400+ for a long time, this is a huge step for me. To be quite honest, I don't expect to live very long anyway as the drugs that I'm taking to help are probably hurting me just as much as they're helping me. But I'm going to do what I can and at least drop this 60 pounds...that alone will help a lot. I'm not fatalistic in my views. Just realizing that a lot of damage has already been done that I can't undo and that I'm trying to minimize the effects of what's already gone bad. -- Sean Dennis * * http://outpostbbs.net Author of Cheepware BBS doors and sysop utilities SysOp of Outpost BBS running Telegard/2 under eComStation 1.2 |
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"Sean Dennis" > wrote in message .. . >> You do realise that the more often you eat those carby meals and have >> those high after meal and fasting bg's that your diabetes will >> progress, in the direction you don't want it to. Canned soup, milk >> (especially skimmed milk) cereal (particularly the highly processed >> ones like Cornflakes, 7 carb exchanges - all are high carb and don't >> do your body any favours at all. Your bg might be dropping back at the >> moment but you are on a sure-fire track to it getting to the point >> where it won't. > > See my post to Alan. I will generally eat only once or twice a day, if > that. I think this might be the point you are missing. A certain number of carbs eaten over two meals will do a big number on your bg's whereas the same amount of carb spread over a numbers meals/snacks doesn't. > Canned soup is bad for me because of the salt, period. I'm not allowed > to have that at all. I'm hypertensive also, so I'm doubly damned. Ok, I thought you said you asked your wife to make the recipe on the can of soup.... I have hypertension also, it's a part of the metabolic syndrome - high cholesterol, triglycerides, BP and ultimately bg. BP is something we all understand here > So you're saying skim milk is bad? That's odd, my dietician said skim > milk was the best for me out of any of them I could have. I don't drink > milk much anymore, either. Skim milk has more carbs than full cream milk but a cup of milk has around 13 gr carb or so. It's effect on bg is bad enough that some people use it to treat hypos in a hurry. Milk is something best left to a time of the day when insulin resistance is lower - mornings are not good times. Even then it is not something you could have at the same time as cereal, as you have already noticed. It sent your bg's soaring. > To be quite honest, I don't expect to live very long anyway as the drugs > that I'm taking to help are probably hurting me just as much as they're > helping me. But I'm going to do what I can and at least drop this 60 > pounds...that alone will help a lot. Drugs can be a necessary evil, that's why I prefer to treat without them, I do take a BP med with a diuretic though. > I'm not fatalistic in my views. Just realizing that a lot of damage has > already been done that I can't undo and that I'm trying to minimize the > effects of what's already gone bad. You'd be surprised at how much you can either undo or halt. Now on to fats. It seems like you have been given the big scare about fats. If you want to go along with the scare tactics by cutting out sat and trans fats then by all means do so but the body absolutely needs certain nutrients that come from certain fats. You only need to go low ont he sat/trans not the good fats. having some fat in the diet will also makeyou more satisfied after a meal and it can flatten the potential rise from carbs. I doubt it would help with a cornflakes and milk meal though.. Some good fats come from olives, olive oil, avocados, walnuts etc. |
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"Sean Dennis" > wrote in message ... >I don't know who said that this newsgroup was inactive, but they were > wrong. Glad I have time on my hands at work. It's not inactive. It's just that alt.support.diabetes is usually a lot more active than this. > <snip> |
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"Ozgirl" > wrote in message ... > > "Sean Dennis" > wrote in message > .. . >>> You do realise that the more often you eat those carby meals and have >>> those high after meal and fasting bg's that your diabetes will >>> progress, in the direction you don't want it to. Canned soup, milk >>> (especially skimmed milk) cereal (particularly the highly processed >>> ones like Cornflakes, 7 carb exchanges - all are high carb and don't >>> do your body any favours at all. Your bg might be dropping back at the >>> moment but you are on a sure-fire track to it getting to the point >>> where it won't. >> >> See my post to Alan. I will generally eat only once or twice a day, if >> that. > > I think this might be the point you are missing. A certain number of carbs > eaten over two meals will do a big number on your bg's whereas the same > amount of carb spread over a numbers meals/snacks doesn't. True, but if he's having stomach issues like I have, this might not be possible. > <snip> |
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"Julie Bove" > wrote in message news:eSIJi.1910$YN2.1001@trndny07... > > "Ozgirl" > wrote in message > ... >> >> "Sean Dennis" > wrote in message >> .. . >>>> You do realise that the more often you eat those carby meals and have >>>> those high after meal and fasting bg's that your diabetes will >>>> progress, in the direction you don't want it to. Canned soup, milk >>>> (especially skimmed milk) cereal (particularly the highly processed >>>> ones like Cornflakes, 7 carb exchanges - all are high carb and don't >>>> do your body any favours at all. Your bg might be dropping back at the >>>> moment but you are on a sure-fire track to it getting to the point >>>> where it won't. >>> >>> See my post to Alan. I will generally eat only once or twice a day, if >>> that. >> >> I think this might be the point you are missing. A certain number of >> carbs eaten over two meals will do a big number on your bg's whereas the >> same amount of carb spread over a numbers meals/snacks doesn't. > > True, but if he's having stomach issues like I have, this might not be > possible. If he is eating two meals a day they would have to have adequate calories to survive. He is eating low fat so that leaves carb and protein. Let's take the one meal of cornflakes and skimmed milk. Small bowl he mentioned. Let's say at best it was 30 gr carb. The other meal. Chicken casserole? If he does have gastroparesis, no way he could hold a full sized meal without tossing his cookies or having it sit there for anything up to few days. So two meals a day would mean he is eating a lot (more carbs which create a large spike) or too little (and he would be grossly shortchanging the calories). I can't see the first scenario (eating a lot) being one that could happen with gastroparesis. So if Sean is eating more than a small meal at a time then he is most likely eating too many carbs (as is being evidenced by his high bg's after meals - despite diabetic medication). Once that pyloric valves narrows instead of opening fully after a meal (as is the case with gastroparesis) there is only one way for that food to go if it is not small enough to remain in the stomach. He would be vomiting it out and yes he has mentioned he vomited and can't usually eat in the mornings because he feels physically sick. But that still isn't conclusive of gastroparesis, it could be or not. Why wouldn't a person with gastroparesis be able to take a snack of a bit sized cracker spread with a bit of cottage cheese and a slice of thin tomato? Snacks don't have to be 2 slices of bread with meat and salad. If one can't eat a normal sized meal, why wouldn't it make more sense to eat more often but in much smaller amounts? Or have a couple of snacks that are liquid only etc. |
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"Ozgirl" > wrote in message ... > > "Julie Bove" > wrote in message > news:eSIJi.1910$YN2.1001@trndny07... >> >> "Ozgirl" > wrote in message >> ... >>> >>> "Sean Dennis" > wrote in message >>> .. . >>>>> You do realise that the more often you eat those carby meals and have >>>>> those high after meal and fasting bg's that your diabetes will >>>>> progress, in the direction you don't want it to. Canned soup, milk >>>>> (especially skimmed milk) cereal (particularly the highly processed >>>>> ones like Cornflakes, 7 carb exchanges - all are high carb and don't >>>>> do your body any favours at all. Your bg might be dropping back at the >>>>> moment but you are on a sure-fire track to it getting to the point >>>>> where it won't. >>>> >>>> See my post to Alan. I will generally eat only once or twice a day, if >>>> that. >>> >>> I think this might be the point you are missing. A certain number of >>> carbs eaten over two meals will do a big number on your bg's whereas the >>> same amount of carb spread over a numbers meals/snacks doesn't. >> >> True, but if he's having stomach issues like I have, this might not be >> possible. > > If he is eating two meals a day they would have to have adequate calories > to survive. He is eating low fat so that leaves carb and protein. Let's > take the one meal of cornflakes and skimmed milk. Small bowl he mentioned. > Let's say at best it was 30 gr carb. The other meal. Chicken casserole? If > he does have gastroparesis, no way he could hold a full sized meal without > tossing his cookies or having it sit there for anything up to few days. So > two meals a day would mean he is eating a lot (more carbs which create a > large spike) or too little (and he would be grossly shortchanging the > calories). I can't see the first scenario (eating a lot) being one that > could happen with gastroparesis. So if Sean is eating more than a small > meal at a time then he is most likely eating too many carbs (as is being > evidenced by his high bg's after meals - despite diabetic medication). Maybe. But what he is eating doesn't sound so different than what I have to eat when my stomach is acting up. And it's pretty much all carbs. Although they are small meals. I tend to lose weight quickly when my stomach is acting up. But I've since put some of that back on. > > Once that pyloric valves narrows instead of opening fully after a meal (as > is the case with gastroparesis) there is only one way for that food to go > if it is not small enough to remain in the stomach. He would be vomiting > it out and yes he has mentioned he vomited and can't usually eat in the > mornings because he feels physically sick. But that still isn't conclusive > of gastroparesis, it could be or not. True. He didn't say if he knew the reason or not. > > Why wouldn't a person with gastroparesis be able to take a snack of a bit > sized cracker spread with a bit of cottage cheese and a slice of thin > tomato? Snacks don't have to be 2 slices of bread with meat and salad. If > one can't eat a normal sized meal, why wouldn't it make more sense to eat > more often but in much smaller amounts? Or have a couple of snacks that > are liquid only etc. Well, I can't because I am simply not at all hungry and can't eat when I'm not hungry. I can't do dairy and I don't personally seem to have problems with tomatoes but the gastroparesis diet is supposed to be low in fiber with no raw fruits or vegetables. Another thing I have found, if I do have a snack between meals or have three meals in one day, it increases my changes of throwing up. Alas I have no advance warning of whether my stomach is working or not so it seems best in that regard to keep it fairly empty. I suppose if one can do dairy they could have liquid snacks, but I don't know otherwise what would work. Fruit juice would certainly spike me. |
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"Julie Bove" > wrote in message > I suppose if one can do dairy they could have liquid snacks, but I don't > know otherwise what would work. Fruit juice would certainly spike me. Veggie juice Celery, a tad of carrot (it spikes more as a juice), other vegetables one likes that aren't too starchy. I love home juiced veggie juices. Clear broths (beef, chicken etc). Almond milk. |
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"Ozgirl" > wrote in message ... > > "Julie Bove" > wrote in message > >> I suppose if one can do dairy they could have liquid snacks, but I don't >> know otherwise what would work. Fruit juice would certainly spike me. > > Veggie juice Celery, a tad of carrot (it spikes more as a juice), other > vegetables one likes that aren't too starchy. I love home juiced veggie > juices. Clear broths (beef, chicken etc). Almond milk. I'm allergic to almonds. Can't stand veggie juice and broth doesn't have enough in it to help me. I do have broth on occasion but wouldn't consider it much of a snack. It's always something. |
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