best high-end refrigerator?
 

I'm getting ready to do a major kitchen remodel and have some
questions about refrigerators. I was all set to order the Sub-Zero
650 Over-Under (freezer is a drawer beneath the fridge), when a friend
of mine told me that Sub-Zeros in general are overrated and are
outperformed by several other (cheaper) brands, e.g. KitchenAid and
Viking.

Does anyone have any firsthand experience with the various high-end
non-commercial units? I am most curious about this - needless to say,
I'm hesitant about spending $6k (or more) on a refrigerator that I may
not be totally happy with...!

Thanks,
~a

best high-end refrigerator?
 

After years of planning on a Subzero for our upcoming remodel, we are
strongly leaning toward the pull out Kitchen Aid that is 24" deep.
Subzeros are $6000 and are about to rise in price. The Kitchen Aid is
$2400 and you can pull it out and fix it without tearing your kitchen
apart. A life long friend had to repair a SubZero after two years of
usage. I would also appreciate anyone's experience with either brand
and/or model.
Happy 1st,
Kent

angelarenae wrote:
>
> I'm getting ready to do a major kitchen remodel and have some
> questions about refrigerators. I was all set to order the Sub-Zero
> 650 Over-Under (freezer is a drawer beneath the fridge), when a friend
> of mine told me that Sub-Zeros in general are overrated and are
> outperformed by several other (cheaper) brands, e.g. KitchenAid and
> Viking.
>
> Does anyone have any firsthand experience with the various high-end
> non-commercial units? I am most curious about this - needless to say,
> I'm hesitant about spending $6k (or more) on a refrigerator that I may
> not be totally happy with...!
>
> Thanks,
> ~a

best high-end refrigerator?
 

(angelarenae) wrote:

>I'm getting ready to do a major kitchen remodel and have some
>questions about refrigerators. I was all set to order the Sub-Zero
>650 Over-Under (freezer is a drawer beneath the fridge), when a friend
>of mine told me that Sub-Zeros in general are overrated and are
>outperformed by several other (cheaper) brands, e.g. KitchenAid and
>Viking.

Check the repair rate of SubZero. They are running about 27% repair rate,
highest in the industry. For the price they are asking, I would demand
perfection.

Check out this: For under 2,000, you have close to 34 CF of refrigeration and
freezer and Whirlpool has a much better repair rate.

refrigerator
http://www.whirlpool.com/cgi-bin/nco... Refrigerator

freezer
http://www.whirlpool.com/cgi-bin/nco...S&feat_nbr=867

best high-end refrigerator?
 

In article >,
Floyd Farcus > wrote:
(angelarenae) wrote:
>
>>I'm getting ready to do a major kitchen remodel and have some
>>questions about refrigerators. I was all set to order the Sub-Zero
>>650 Over-Under (freezer is a drawer beneath the fridge), when a friend
>>of mine told me that Sub-Zeros in general are overrated and are
>>outperformed by several other (cheaper) brands, e.g. KitchenAid and
>>Viking.
>
>Check the repair rate of SubZero. They are running about 27% repair
> rate, highest in the industry. For the price they are asking, I
>would demand perfection.

One of the problems may indeed be that their customers *ARE* demanding
perfection, or very close to it.

As you said, at that price it should be perfect, and with a repair
policy geared toward that, one would expect a higher repair rate.

IIRC, their repair cost to customer is zero.


Chuck Demas

--
Eat Healthy | _ _ | Nothing would be done at all,
Stay Fit | @ @ | If a man waited to do it so well,
Die Anyway | v | That no one could find fault with it.
| \___/ | http://world.std.com/~cpd

best high-end refrigerator?
 

"Charles Demas" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> Floyd Farcus > wrote:
> (angelarenae) wrote:
> >
> >>I'm getting ready to do a major kitchen remodel and have some
> >>questions about refrigerators. I was all set to order the Sub-Zero
> >>650 Over-Under (freezer is a drawer beneath the fridge), when a friend
> >>of mine told me that Sub-Zeros in general are overrated and are
> >>outperformed by several other (cheaper) brands, e.g. KitchenAid and
> >>Viking.
> >
> >Check the repair rate of SubZero. They are running about 27% repair
> > rate, highest in the industry. For the price they are asking, I
> >would demand perfection.
>
> One of the problems may indeed be that their customers *ARE* demanding
> perfection, or very close to it.
==
It is a problem that customers expect their multi-$k fridge to
run flawlessly? Heck, I expect my $1500. fridge to run flawlessly.
(And it has, by the way, so far.)
==
>
> As you said, at that price it should be perfect, and with a repair
> policy geared toward that, one would expect a higher repair rate.
>
> IIRC, their repair cost to customer is zero.
==
Kinda like a Hyundai?
==
>
>
> Chuck Demas
>
> --
> Eat Healthy | _ _ | Nothing would be done at all,
> Stay Fit | @ @ | If a man waited to do it so well,
> Die Anyway | v | That no one could find fault with it.
> | \___/ | http://world.std.com/~cpd

best high-end refrigerator?
 

On Thu, 1 Jan 2004 19:52:56 +0000 (UTC), (Charles
Demas) wrote:

>In article >,
>Floyd Farcus > wrote:
(angelarenae) wrote:
>>
>>>I'm getting ready to do a major kitchen remodel and have some
>>>questions about refrigerators. I was all set to order the Sub-Zero
>>>650 Over-Under (freezer is a drawer beneath the fridge), when a friend
>>>of mine told me that Sub-Zeros in general are overrated and are
>>>outperformed by several other (cheaper) brands, e.g. KitchenAid and
>>>Viking.
>>
>>Check the repair rate of SubZero. They are running about 27% repair
>> rate, highest in the industry. For the price they are asking, I
>>would demand perfection.
>
>One of the problems may indeed be that their customers *ARE* demanding
>perfection, or very close to it.
>
>As you said, at that price it should be perfect, and with a repair
>policy geared toward that, one would expect a higher repair rate.
>
>IIRC, their repair cost to customer is zero.
>
>
>Chuck Demas


Hi Chuck,

Am I to understand (with the reasoning above) that you are suggesting
that the very high repair rate is a GOOD thing?

If so, I will have to re-evaluate my purchases in the future...<g>

All the best,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

best high-end refrigerator?
 

On 31 Dec 2003 21:03:40 -0800, (angelarenae)
wrote:

>I'm getting ready to do a major kitchen remodel and have some
>questions about refrigerators. I was all set to order the Sub-Zero
>650 Over-Under (freezer is a drawer beneath the fridge), when a friend
>of mine told me that Sub-Zeros in general are overrated and are
>outperformed by several other (cheaper) brands, e.g. KitchenAid and
>Viking.
>
>Does anyone have any firsthand experience with the various high-end
>non-commercial units? I am most curious about this - needless to say,
>I'm hesitant about spending $6k (or more) on a refrigerator that I may
>not be totally happy with...!
>
>Thanks,
>~a

Howdy,

I know nothing about the Sub-Zero from first hand experience...

When we built our new home (about two years ago) I assumed that we
would go the SZ direction. Eventually, we got a Whirlpool from Sears.
Stainless front, "built-in" look, flawless performance, and a small
fraction of the SZ price. We are very happy with our decision.

I will add that we were not averse to spending significant bucks for
appliances that really offered us something that we valued. For
example, we put in a Bongard deck oven in support of my bread baking
interests (oh, ok, obsession). But in the case of a fridge, we just
could not see the advantage of the super expensive versions that are
out there. This is not to suggest that the differences don't exist. It
is merely to say that we could not find 'em.

All the best,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

best high-end refrigerator?
 

"Kenneth" > wrote in message
...
> On 31 Dec 2003 21:03:40 -0800, (angelarenae)
> wrote:
>
> >I'm getting ready to do a major kitchen remodel and have some
> >questions about refrigerators. I was all set to order the Sub-Zero
> >650 Over-Under (freezer is a drawer beneath the fridge), when a friend
> >of mine told me that Sub-Zeros in general are overrated and are
> >outperformed by several other (cheaper) brands, e.g. KitchenAid and
> >Viking.
> >
> >Does anyone have any firsthand experience with the various high-end
> >non-commercial units? I am most curious about this - needless to say,
> >I'm hesitant about spending $6k (or more) on a refrigerator that I may
> >not be totally happy with...!
> >
> >Thanks,
> >~a
>
> Howdy,
>
> I know nothing about the Sub-Zero from first hand experience...
>
> When we built our new home (about two years ago) I assumed that we
> would go the SZ direction. Eventually, we got a Whirlpool from Sears.
> Stainless front, "built-in" look, flawless performance, and a small
> fraction of the SZ price. We are very happy with our decision.
>
> I will add that we were not averse to spending significant bucks for
> appliances that really offered us something that we valued. For
> example, we put in a Bongard deck oven in support of my bread baking
> interests (oh, ok, obsession). But in the case of a fridge, we just
> could not see the advantage of the super expensive versions that are
> out there. This is not to suggest that the differences don't exist. It
> is merely to say that we could not find 'em.
==
I agree. We were in a similar situation when replacing our appliances. I did
not object to paying top dollar for good equipment. It just turned out,
after
researching, researching and more researching that the best appliances were
*not*
the ones considered high end. They were simply too fickle and trouble prone.
There
was simply no way to justify the cost and my family is too large to go weeks
waiting
on repairs/parts. I bought a $1500. Jenn-Air fridge with fantastic features
not found in pricier
units and it has worked flawlessly (so far). I went with a Kenmore Elite
high powered SS smoothtop with convection
oven, warming drawer and variable heat warmer/simmer 5th burner (cost
1200.), and a Bosch dishwasher (which had features the lower end units did
not have). Cost (900. on sale) justified. I need appliances that work hard
and perform well--day in and day out, without fail. It's been 16-24 months
since all have been replaced. I still have no regrets.
==
>
> All the best,
>
> --
> Kenneth
>
> If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

best high-end refrigerator?
 

In article >,
Kenneth > wrote:
>On Thu, 1 Jan 2004 19:52:56 +0000 (UTC), (Charles
>Demas) wrote:
>
>>In article >,
>>Floyd Farcus > wrote:
(angelarenae) wrote:
>>>
>>>>I'm getting ready to do a major kitchen remodel and have some
>>>>questions about refrigerators. I was all set to order the Sub-Zero
>>>>650 Over-Under (freezer is a drawer beneath the fridge), when a friend
>>>>of mine told me that Sub-Zeros in general are overrated and are
>>>>outperformed by several other (cheaper) brands, e.g. KitchenAid and
>>>>Viking.
>>>
>>>Check the repair rate of SubZero. They are running about 27% repair
>>> rate, highest in the industry. For the price they are asking, I
>>>would demand perfection.
>>
>>One of the problems may indeed be that their customers *ARE* demanding
>>perfection, or very close to it.
>>
>>As you said, at that price it should be perfect, and with a repair
>>policy geared toward that, one would expect a higher repair rate.
>>
>>IIRC, their repair cost to customer is zero.
>>
>>
>>Chuck Demas
>
>
>Hi Chuck,
>
>Am I to understand (with the reasoning above) that you are suggesting
>that the very high repair rate is a GOOD thing?

I'd say that on an equally priced and equally waranteed item, that the
higher repair rate indicates lower quality.

But that is NOT the case here with a Sub Zero.

The Sub Zero is NOT equally priced NOR is it equally waranteed.


>If so, I will have to re-evaluate my purchases in the future...<g>

I'm suggesting that if it costs nothing to have the product serviced,
and that when one pays an extremely high cost for something, that the
repair rate being higher than for less costly items is to be expected.

If you purchased a Rolls Royce you have higher expectations than
when you buy a Ford or Chevy. You'd overlook a small scratch on
the Ford or Chevy, but not on the Rolls.


Chuck Demas

--
Eat Healthy | _ _ | Nothing would be done at all,
Stay Fit | @ @ | If a man waited to do it so well,
Die Anyway | v | That no one could find fault with it.
| \___/ | http://world.std.com/~cpd

best high-end refrigerator?
 

On Thu, 1 Jan 2004 22:53:04 +0000 (UTC), (Charles
Demas) wrote:

>I'm suggesting that if it costs nothing to have the product serviced,
>and that when one pays an extremely high cost for something, that the
>repair rate being higher than for less costly items is to be expected.

Well, I do not agree with you, but there is another issue in any case:

A repair rarely "costs nothing."

Even if a highly competent repair person shows up right on schedule,
and charges me not a penny, the time costs to me are very significant.
I cannot be certain, but I would tend to believe that is true for many
people.

All the best,



--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

best high-end refrigerator?
 

In article >,
Kenneth > wrote:
>On Thu, 1 Jan 2004 22:53:04 +0000 (UTC), (Charles
>Demas) wrote:
>
>>I'm suggesting that if it costs nothing to have the product serviced,
>>and that when one pays an extremely high cost for something, that the
>>repair rate being higher than for less costly items is to be expected.
>
>Well, I do not agree with you, but there is another issue in any case:
>
>A repair rarely "costs nothing."
>
>Even if a highly competent repair person shows up right on schedule,
>and charges me not a penny, the time costs to me are very significant.
>I cannot be certain, but I would tend to believe that is true for many
>people.

It is indeed true that the cost of getting something repaired is
more than what one pays for the repair.

For those owning a Sub Zero, there is a distinct likelyhood that
someone will be available to meet the repair person. Now that
someone might be live in help, security personel, or a non-working
spouse. Anyone paying $6000 for a refrigerator is likely to live
a more priviledged lifestyle. I paid that for my last car. :-)

My point of the repair costs nothing was twofold:

1. Service covered by warantee encourages service, but any fee
involved will lessen the repair rate.

2. Part of the Sub Zero price is their warantee.


Chuck Demas

--
Eat Healthy | _ _ | Nothing would be done at all,
Stay Fit | @ @ | If a man waited to do it so well,
Die Anyway | v | That no one could find fault with it.
| \___/ | http://world.std.com/~cpd

best high-end refrigerator?
 

best high-end refrigerator?
 

Floyd Farcus > wrote in
:

> (Charles Demas) wrote:
>
>>1. Service covered by warantee encourages service, but any fee
>> involved will lessen the repair rate.
>>
>>2. Part of the Sub Zero price is their warantee.
>
> Charles....
>
> Part of the price of ANY manufactured refrigeration system is the
> warrantee. That includes Maytag, Whirlpool and Kenmore! SubZero is
> just highly priced. High price does not necessarily mean reliability.

I've know to SubZero owners whose units caught on fire, both due to
defects. I would not be inclined to own one.

> Kind of like owning a Jaguar....if you can one one you better be
> able to buy two. since one probably will be in the garage.
>
>
>

best high-end refrigerator?
 

In article >,
Floyd Farcus > wrote:
(Charles Demas) wrote:
>
>>1. Service covered by warantee encourages service, but any fee
>> involved will lessen the repair rate.
>>
>>2. Part of the Sub Zero price is their warantee.
>
>Charles....
>
>Part of the price of ANY manufactured refrigeration system is the warrantee.
>That includes Maytag, Whirlpool and Kenmore! SubZero is just highly priced.
>High price does not necessarily mean reliability. Kind of like owning a
>Jaguar....if you can one one you better be able to buy two. since one probably
>will be in the garage.

In the old days of Jaguar (before Ford), there were a few statements
made by Jag owners:

1. I'm hoping that someday I'll be able to do just preventative
maintenance.

2. Every part that falls of your Jaguar will be one of the finest
machined parts that money can buy.


Chuck Demas

--
Eat Healthy | _ _ | Nothing would be done at all,
Stay Fit | @ @ | If a man waited to do it so well,
Die Anyway | v | That no one could find fault with it.
| \___/ | http://world.std.com/~cpd

best high-end refrigerator?
 

My only comment is that I would avoid Viking. They had to get two
temporary waivers from the EPA to continue making fridges, because they
could not get their unit to pass the new energy requirements.

Most companies did not need a waiver, and no one else got more than one.

Colin




angelarenae wrote:
> I'm getting ready to do a major kitchen remodel and have some
> questions about refrigerators. I was all set to order the Sub-Zero
> 650 Over-Under (freezer is a drawer beneath the fridge), when a friend
> of mine told me that Sub-Zeros in general are overrated and are
> outperformed by several other (cheaper) brands, e.g. KitchenAid and
> Viking.
>
> Does anyone have any firsthand experience with the various high-end
> non-commercial units? I am most curious about this - needless to say,
> I'm hesitant about spending $6k (or more) on a refrigerator that I may
> not be totally happy with...!
>
> Thanks,
> ~a

best high-end refrigerator?
 

"Colin" > wrote in message
...
> My only comment is that I would avoid Viking. They had to get two
> temporary waivers from the EPA to continue making fridges, because they
> could not get their unit to pass the new energy requirements.
>
> Most companies did not need a waiver, and no one else got more than one.
>
> Colin


I thought that Sub Zero made Viking refrigerators.

best high-end refrigerator?
 

No. Viking bought the built-in division of another company. I believe it
was Maytag, but I am not sure. www.applianceadvisor.com has the answer,
but I don't feel like looking it up now.

Colin






Vox Humana wrote:
> "Colin" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>My only comment is that I would avoid Viking. They had to get two
>>temporary waivers from the EPA to continue making fridges, because they
>>could not get their unit to pass the new energy requirements.
>>
>>Most companies did not need a waiver, and no one else got more than one.
>>
>>Colin
>
>
>
> I thought that Sub Zero made Viking refrigerators.
>
>

best high-end refrigerator?
 

"Colin" > wrote in message
...
> No. Viking bought the built-in division of another company. I believe it
> was Maytag, but I am not sure. www.applianceadvisor.com has the answer,
> but I don't feel like looking it up now.
>
> Colin

I guess I confused Viking and Wolf. Sub Zero bought Wolf in 2000.

best high-end refrigerator?
 

"Kent H." > wrote in message
...
> After years of planning on a Subzero for our upcoming remodel, we are
> strongly leaning toward the pull out Kitchen Aid that is 24" deep.
> Subzeros are $6000 and are about to rise in price. The Kitchen Aid is
> $2400 and you can pull it out and fix it without tearing your kitchen
> apart. A life long friend had to repair a SubZero after two years of
> usage. I would also appreciate anyone's experience with either brand
> and/or model.
> Happy 1st,
> Kent
>
> angelarenae wrote:
> >
> > I'm getting ready to do a major kitchen remodel and have some
> > questions about refrigerators. I was all set to order the Sub-Zero
> > 650 Over-Under (freezer is a drawer beneath the fridge), when a friend
> > of mine told me that Sub-Zeros in general are overrated and are
> > outperformed by several other (cheaper) brands, e.g. KitchenAid and
> > Viking.
> >
> > Does anyone have any firsthand experience with the various high-end
> > non-commercial units? I am most curious about this - needless to say,
> > I'm hesitant about spending $6k (or more) on a refrigerator that I may
> > not be totally happy with...!
> >
> > Thanks,
> > ~a

I have had a sub-zero for at least 15 years. It looks and acts good as new.
We had a couple of little items inside the refigerator (not the motor) that
had to be replaced, but we ordered them on-line and he fixed them himself.
They were insignificant amounts in $.

Dee

best high-end refrigerator?
 

"Wayne Boatwright" > wrote in message
. ..
> Floyd Farcus > wrote in
> :
>
> > (Charles Demas) wrote:
> >
> >>1. Service covered by warantee encourages service, but any fee
> >> involved will lessen the repair rate.
> >>
> >>2. Part of the Sub Zero price is their warantee.
> >
> > Charles....
> >
> > Part of the price of ANY manufactured refrigeration system is the
> > warrantee. That includes Maytag, Whirlpool and Kenmore! SubZero is
> > just highly priced. High price does not necessarily mean reliability.
>
> I've know to SubZero owners whose units caught on fire, both due to
> defects. I would not be inclined to own one.
>
> > Kind of like owning a Jaguar....if you can one one you better be
> > able to buy two. since one probably will be in the garage.


<snip>I've know to SubZero owners whose units caught on fire, both due to
defects. I would not be inclined to own one.<snip>

Whoa! I'd better check my smoke alarm!
Seriously, though, I've not heard ever of a refrigerator catching fire.

Dee

best high-end refrigerator?
 

"Dee Randall" <deedoveyatshenteldotnet> wrote in
:

> I have had a sub-zero for at least 15 years. It looks and acts good
> as new. We had a couple of little items inside the refigerator (not
> the motor) that had to be replaced, but we ordered them on-line and he
> fixed them himself. They were insignificant amounts in $.
>
> Dee
>

Obviously, when they work, they work! I do like their look and also the
shallower shelves that make finding things infintely easier.

Wayne

best high-end refrigerator?
 

I believe Consumer Reports rated the Sub Zero at the very bottom of their
repair record chart, meaning they had the worst record of all listed brands.
This rating was based on user reports of service problems. They sure are
pretty, but I think other brands are catching up in styling, and might offer a
better value, if not the same cachet.

best high-end refrigerator?
 

"Sheellah" > wrote in message
...
> I believe Consumer Reports rated the Sub Zero at the very bottom of their
> repair record chart, meaning they had the worst record of all listed
brands.

That gives new meaning to the name "Sub Zero!"

best high-end refrigerator?
 

We have a Viking and it's great. Better than our old SZ.

"Vox Humana" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Colin" > wrote in message
> ...
> > No. Viking bought the built-in division of another company. I believe it
> > was Maytag, but I am not sure. www.applianceadvisor.com has the answer,
> > but I don't feel like looking it up now.
> >
> > Colin
>
> I guess I confused Viking and Wolf. Sub Zero bought Wolf in 2000.
>
>
>