Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
|
Cooking Equipment (rec.food.equipment) Discussion of food-related equipment. Includes items used in food preparation and storage, including major and minor appliances, gadgets and utensils, infrastructure, and food- and recipe-related software. |
Reply |
|
LinkBack | Thread Tools | Display Modes |
|
|||
|
|||
Dishwasher problems
I have had several dishwashers over almost 40 years of housekeeping
and never had dishes etch. I only rinse a dish that has something caked on. Occasionally something comes out of the dishewasher not perfectly clean so we rinse it again. I can't imagine spending the time to wash dishes before the dishwasher washes the dishes. Frank Lynch > wrote in message >. .. > On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 20:19:28 -0500, in a clarity of expression > resembling Cicero, The Cook > wrote: > > >I rinse the dishes before they go in and my husband still thinks that > >they have to be almost washed beforehand. And as I said, no etching. > > Check your manual: you may not need to do any rinsing at all (beyond a > good scrape of the leftovers into the trash). Our GE's manual says the > only time we need to rinse beforehand is when it's a cereal on > stoneware, everything else will come off. > > Frank Lynch > The Samuel Johnson Sound Bite Page is at: > http://www.samueljohnson.com/ |
|
|||
|
|||
Dishwasher problems
On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 11:42:32 -0500, in a clarity of expression
resembling Cicero, The Cook > wrote: >Frank Lynch > wrote: > >>On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 20:19:28 -0500, in a clarity of expression >>resembling Cicero, The Cook > wrote: >> >>>I rinse the dishes before they go in and my husband still thinks that >>>they have to be almost washed beforehand. And as I said, no etching. >> >>Check your manual: you may not need to do any rinsing at all (beyond a >>good scrape of the leftovers into the trash). Our GE's manual says the >>only time we need to rinse beforehand is when it's a cereal on >>stoneware, everything else will come off. > >Since I have never had any problems with my dishwashers I see no need >to change my system. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Who pays for your water usage? Frank Lynch The Samuel Johnson Sound Bite Page is at: http://www.samueljohnson.com/ |
|
|||
|
|||
Bosch dishwashers
>> Note that the Bosch service people told us
>> NOT to rinse the dishes before loading, but >> only SCRAPE with a spatula. They claim that >> leaving food residue on the dishes helps >> because without something else to work on, >> the detergent will attack the finish on dishes. >> They claim scraping rather than rinsing >> prolongs the life of glasses and china. >> >> Rick >Thomas A Bruno wrote in message ... > >Oh, this is hard to accept. > >If you use a spatula only, doesn't the plate get >"rinsed" in the first 15 seconds of the dishwasher >cycle, and then the detergent is "eating away at >the the finish" from then on? When a dishwasher goes through its pre-rinse, it does not *immediately* drain that water away. It and the particles it removed from the plates, etc. is still in the dishwasher for the detergent to act upon. >What kind of dishes have such a delicate finish >that dishwasher detergent will erode them? It's most noticeable on glass and crystal. Try holding a glass up to a light and see if there is a 'rainbow' effect. If there is, your glass has already starting etching. JFYI Dan O. - Appliance411.com http://ng.Appliance411.com/?ref411=dishwasher+use =Ð~~~~~~ |
|
|||
|
|||
Dishwasher problems
|
|
|||
|
|||
Dishwasher problems
Sometimes if the dryer is "on," the food not washed off will bake on.
dee "scorpiogirl" > wrote in message om... > (Bliss) wrote in message . com>... > > I have had several dishwashers over almost 40 years of housekeeping > > and never had dishes etch. I only rinse a dish that has something > > caked on. Occasionally something comes out of the dishewasher not > > perfectly clean so we rinse it again. I can't imagine spending the > > time to wash dishes before the dishwasher washes the dishes. > > > > No etching here, either, but I have some everyday glassware with a red > design that has faded slightly over time. > > I agree with your philosophy. I also only rinse if the dish is heavily > soiled. I don't have time to prewash my dishes. If an occasional item > doesn't look clean at the end of the cycle I just run it through again > with the next load. |
|
|||
|
|||
Bosch dishwashers
I have some glasses that if I can take a correct picture of that will
reflect the etching, I will put them on a website, so you can see what kind of glass that will etch. I certainly didn't think these glasses would etch. They are good quality and sturdy glasses. Dee "Graham" > wrote in message news:lRZFb.800517$9l5.708163@pd7tw2no... > > "Thomas A Bruno" > wrote in message > ... > > in article , Java Man > > (Espressopithecus) at wrote on 12/22/03 8:33 AM: > > > > > In article >, > > > says... > > > > They claim scraping rather than rinsing prolongs the life of glasses > > > and china. > > > > > > I haven't been doing it long enough to know whether this is true. > > > > > > Rick > > > > Oh, this is hard to accept. > > > > If you use a spatula only, doesn't the plate get "rinsed" in the first 15 > > seconds of the dishwasher cycle, and then the detergent is "eating away at > > the the finish" from then on? > > > > What kind of dishes have such a delicate finish that dishwasher detergent > > will erode them? > > -- > > I started this etching thread and for me the only glassware items that have > been seriously etched have been the "pyrex" type, thick measuring jugs that > are commonly available in kitchen and hardware stores. They have become > completely frosted so that the measuring lines and numbers are no longer > visible. > > Graham > > |
|
|||
|
|||
Dishwasher problems
"Dee Randall" > wrote in message ... > Sometimes if the dryer is "on," the food not washed off will bake on. > dee > > > "scorpiogirl" > wrote in message > om... > > (Bliss) wrote in message > . com>... > > > I have had several dishwashers over almost 40 years of housekeeping > > > and never had dishes etch. I only rinse a dish that has something > > > caked on. Occasionally something comes out of the dishewasher not > > > perfectly clean so we rinse it again. I can't imagine spending the > > > time to wash dishes before the dishwasher washes the dishes. > > > > > > > No etching here, either, but I have some everyday glassware with a red > > design that has faded slightly over time. > > > > I agree with your philosophy. I also only rinse if the dish is heavily > > soiled. I don't have time to prewash my dishes. If an occasional item > > doesn't look clean at the end of the cycle I just run it through again > > with the next load. > > So, you take it out of the dishwasher, add some water and let it soak for awhile. It comes off. We have that trouble with oatmeal fragments. Dawn |
|
|||
|
|||
Dishwasher problems
Frank Lynch > wrote:
>On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 11:42:32 -0500, in a clarity of expression >resembling Cicero, The Cook > wrote: > >>Frank Lynch > wrote: >> >>>On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 20:19:28 -0500, in a clarity of expression >>>resembling Cicero, The Cook > wrote: >>> >>>>I rinse the dishes before they go in and my husband still thinks that >>>>they have to be almost washed beforehand. And as I said, no etching. >>> >>>Check your manual: you may not need to do any rinsing at all (beyond a >>>good scrape of the leftovers into the trash). Our GE's manual says the >>>only time we need to rinse beforehand is when it's a cereal on >>>stoneware, everything else will come off. >> >>Since I have never had any problems with my dishwashers I see no need >>to change my system. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. > >Who pays for your water usage? > >Frank Lynch >The Samuel Johnson Sound Bite Page is at: >http://www.samueljohnson.com/ Santa Claus -- Susan N. There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary and those who do not. |
|
|||
|
|||
Bosch dishwashers
In article >,
says... > "Graham" > wrote in > news:lRZFb.800517$9l5.708163@pd7tw2no: > > > > > "Thomas A Bruno" > wrote in message > > ... > >> in article , Java > >> Man (Espressopithecus) at wrote on 12/22/03 8:33 AM: > >> > >> > In article >, > >> > says... > >> > > They claim scraping rather than rinsing prolongs the life of > >> > > glasses > >> > and china. > >> > > >> > I haven't been doing it long enough to know whether this is true. > >> > > >> > Rick > >> > >> Oh, this is hard to accept. > >> > >> If you use a spatula only, doesn't the plate get "rinsed" in the > >> first 15 seconds of the dishwasher cycle, and then the detergent is > >> "eating away at the the finish" from then on? > >> > >> What kind of dishes have such a delicate finish that dishwasher > >> detergent will erode them? > >> -- > > > > I started this etching thread and for me the only glassware items that > > have been seriously etched have been the "pyrex" type, thick measuring > > jugs that are commonly available in kitchen and hardware stores. They > > have become completely frosted so that the measuring lines and numbers > > are no longer visible. > > > > Graham > > We have never pre-rinsed dishes before putting them in the dishwasher. > We have also experienced the same etching on measuring cups but on > absolutely nothing else. I've never understood why this seems to be a > "Pyrex" problem, when all other glassware, including heavier crystal, > shows no signs of etching. Strange... > I Google for some additional information, and it seems that using too much detergent contributes to "etching". This may be why our service people told us that rinsing [rather than scraping] the dishes causes etching. I suspect rinsed dishes require less detergent, but people still use the recommended amount of detergent whether they rinse or scrape. See: http://www.wqa.org/sitelogic.cfm?ID=352 Rick |
|
|||
|
|||
Dishwasher problems
For those who might be interested, I have put a couple of pics of my etched
glasses that I feel were caused by using "dry dishwasher soap." I have switched since to liquid dishwasher soap. I have no idea if that will or has stopped etching. http://freepages.family.rootsweb.com...ssesetched.htm Dee "DawnK" > wrote in message ... > > "Dee Randall" > wrote in message > ... > > Sometimes if the dryer is "on," the food not washed off will bake on. > > dee > > > > > > "scorpiogirl" > wrote in message > > om... > > > (Bliss) wrote in message > > . com>... > > > > I have had several dishwashers over almost 40 years of housekeeping > > > > and never had dishes etch. I only rinse a dish that has something > > > > caked on. Occasionally something comes out of the dishewasher not > > > > perfectly clean so we rinse it again. I can't imagine spending the > > > > time to wash dishes before the dishwasher washes the dishes. > > > > > > > > > > No etching here, either, but I have some everyday glassware with a red > > > design that has faded slightly over time. > > > > > > I agree with your philosophy. I also only rinse if the dish is heavily > > > soiled. I don't have time to prewash my dishes. If an occasional item > > > doesn't look clean at the end of the cycle I just run it through again > > > with the next load. > > > > > > So, you take it out of the dishwasher, add some water and let it soak for > awhile. It comes off. We have that trouble with oatmeal fragments. > > Dawn > > |
|
|||
|
|||
Bosch dishwashers
"Wayne Boatwright" > wrote in message
. .. > "Graham" > wrote in > news:lRZFb.800517$9l5.708163@pd7tw2no: > > > > > "Thomas A Bruno" > wrote in message > > ... > >> in article , Java > >> Man (Espressopithecus) at wrote on 12/22/03 8:33 AM: > >> > >> > In article >, > >> > says... > >> > > They claim scraping rather than rinsing prolongs the life of > >> > > glasses > >> > and china. > >> > > >> > I haven't been doing it long enough to know whether this is true. > >> > > >> > Rick > >> > >> Oh, this is hard to accept. > >> > >> If you use a spatula only, doesn't the plate get "rinsed" in the > >> first 15 seconds of the dishwasher cycle, and then the detergent is > >> "eating away at the the finish" from then on? > >> > >> What kind of dishes have such a delicate finish that dishwasher > >> detergent will erode them? > >> -- > > > > I started this etching thread and for me the only glassware items that > > have been seriously etched have been the "pyrex" type, thick measuring > > jugs that are commonly available in kitchen and hardware stores. They > > have become completely frosted so that the measuring lines and numbers > > are no longer visible. > > > > Graham > > We have never pre-rinsed dishes before putting them in the dishwasher. > We have also experienced the same etching on measuring cups but on > absolutely nothing else. I've never understood why this seems to be a > "Pyrex" problem, when all other glassware, including heavier crystal, > shows no signs of etching. Strange... > > Wayne Etching is a function of the chemical composition of the glass - not all glasses are the same, and in my experience it has nothing to do with the quality or cost of the item. I've had cheap wine glasses that etch and others that are still crystal clear after dozens of washing. Rule of thumb: if you don't want it to etch, hand-wash it. -- Peter Aitken Remove the crap from my email address before using. |
|
|||
|
|||
Bosch dishwashers
Java Man (Espressopithecus) wrote in message ... > >I Google for some additional information, and it seems that using too >much detergent contributes to "etching". Too much detergent for the particular *water hardness* being used. The softer the water, the less detergent should be used. For soft water (0-3 grains), Maytag recommends 3 tsp. of detergent. For 4-9 grains, 4-9 tsp. of detergent. For hard water (10-13 grains), 10-12 tsp. of detergent. For very heard water (14+ grains), a water softener is recommended. You may be able to get a couple of "hard water test strips" at a local water filer dealer if they think you may be interested in purchasing a unit. BTW. Using too hot of water can also facilitate etching. Most dishwasher and detergent manufacturers recommend between 120°F and 140°F wash water. Anything higher may lead to etching, anything less may not allow the detergent to work properly. JFYI Dan O. - Appliance411.com http://ng.Appliance411.com/?ref411=Maytag+dishwasher =Ð~~~~~~ |
|
|||
|
|||
Bosch dishwashers (msg. for Dee)
OK. So I guess I will go with the Bosch and be careful about the scraping
and etching. You never know where a post will go. Thanks for all the comments and advice. Dee: Is there some sort of subliminal activity going on in the bottom pic of your etching? Gives the old line "Would you like to come back to my place and see my etchings?" a new meaning... "Skeeter" > wrote in message ... > Anyone have any comments on repair historys and support? I am about to take > the plunge and want to get any last minute thoughts on their reliability and > how I will be treated if it does break down. > Thanks > > |
|
|||
|
|||
Bosch dishwashers (msg. for Dee)
"Skeeter" > wrote in message ... > OK. So I guess I will go with the Bosch and be careful about the scraping > and etching. == Good choice. My Bosch has a delicate cycle that I use for vintage glassware. I have not had any problems yet. My greatest concern is color fade on vintage pieces that are not made to take the high heat of a regular cycle. Are you going to buy from Sears so you can go back to them for service if needed? == == |
|
|||
|
|||
Bosch dishwashers (msg. for Dee)
--<snip>Perhaps there was something subliminal --<snip>
-- you are very perceptive -- as I was wanting to background the glass, I grabbed nearby a nice Japanese scarf that a Japanese artist in the 1980's had given me. Perhaps IT showed some etching marks on it! So the above glass in the picture is perhaps the best representative I do have a set of Japanese-made dishes that I have used for everyday wear for 30 years now. They are called "rain" glass and they are indeed in a pattern of ETCHED glass, - 5 piece place setting, plus all the extras. The plates and glasses which are used more than saucers, etc.have been completely clouded over by dishwasher over the years. I know this is etching done by the dishwasher vs. soap baking on them (and that I believe happens, too) as washing, soaking in vinegar and everything else by hand does not de-cloud them. Dee "Skeeter" > wrote in message ... > OK. So I guess I will go with the Bosch and be careful about the scraping > and etching. You never know where a post will go. Thanks for all the > comments and advice. > Dee: Is there some sort of subliminal activity going on in the bottom pic > of your etching? Gives the old line "Would you like to come back to my > place and see my etchings?" a new meaning... > > "Skeeter" > wrote in message > ... > > Anyone have any comments on repair historys and support? I am about to > take > > the plunge and want to get any last minute thoughts on their reliability > and > > how I will be treated if it does break down. > > Thanks > > > > > > |
|
|||
|
|||
Bosch dishwashers
"Dan O." > wrote in message
... > > >Jon Endres, PE wrote in message ... > > > > >I hate my Kitchenaid dishwasher - it deposits all > >those particles that the grinder doesn't dispose > >of, right back inside all the glassware on the upper > >rack. I will never own another one with a grinder. > > Sounds more like you have a problem with yours that needs looking > into. Possible causes are an improperly installed drain hose or a > problem in the pump's "check valve". > > I would suggest you put $100 into having a *professional* look into it > for you rather than spending $800+ on a new dishwasher. Checked both. Drain hose was routed exactly according to manufacturer's instructions, by the local appliance shop, and the check valve was replaced. Neither had very much effect. The only way we can get glassware clean is by washing on the bottom rack. Jon |
|
|||
|
|||
Bosch dishwashers
"Jon Endres, PE" t>
wrote in t: > "Dan O." > wrote in message > ... >> >> >Jon Endres, PE wrote in message ... >> > >> >> >I hate my Kitchenaid dishwasher - it deposits all >> >those particles that the grinder doesn't dispose >> >of, right back inside all the glassware on the upper >> >rack. I will never own another one with a grinder. >> >> Sounds more like you have a problem with yours that needs looking >> into. Possible causes are an improperly installed drain hose or a >> problem in the pump's "check valve". >> >> I would suggest you put $100 into having a *professional* look into >> it for you rather than spending $800+ on a new dishwasher. > > Checked both. Drain hose was routed exactly according to > manufacturer's instructions, by the local appliance shop, and the > check valve was replaced. Neither had very much effect. The only way > we can get glassware clean is by washing on the bottom rack. > > Jon I haven't read all of this thread, but are somehow blocking the top rack from underneath? Assuming you have a wash arm right under the top rack, perhaps it is either clogged or blocked. Over the years we had several KitchenAid Superba models in different houses. We never experienced the problem you describe, although I must admit that the construction quality has dropped dramatically in recent years. Our most recent KA was built in 2001, but we have since moved. We were already getting some rust in the SS tub. Wayne |
|
|||
|
|||
Bosch dishwashers
>> >Jon Endres, PE wrote in message ... >> > >> >I hate my Kitchenaid dishwasher - it deposits all >> >those particles that the grinder doesn't dispose >> >of, right back inside all the glassware on the upper >> >rack. I will never own another one with a grinder. >> Sounds more like you have a problem with yours >> that needs looking into. Possible causes are an >> improperly installed drain hose or a problem in >> the pump's "check valve". >> >> I would suggest you put $100 into having a >> *professional* look into it for you rather than >> spending $800+ on a new dishwasher. >Jon Endres, PE wrote > >Checked both. Drain hose was routed exactly >according to manufacturer's instructions, by the >local appliance shop, and the check valve was >replaced. Neither had very much effect. The >only way we can get glassware clean is by >washing on the bottom rack. I'm afraid I can't tell you where the problem is looking from here but I am confident there is a problem in your unit and it is not an inherent problem with the brand. Some models may need a revised upper spray arm but your condition can also be caused by insufficient water amoung other things. If you've had a *factory authorized* KitchenAid service depot out to check it out and they couldn't find the problem, I suggest you ask for a different technician or call a whole different *factory authorized* KitchenAid service depot to look into it for you. There are usually several in any given area. JMO Dan O. - Appliance411.com http://ng.Appliance411.com/?ref411=K...Aid+dishwasher =Ð~~~~~~ |
|
|||
|
|||
Bosch dishwashers (msg. for Dee)
To Dee:
There has got to be a significant difference between US and European DW-detergents. I've practically never seen etchings like yours, but instead a uniform cloudiness. To Skeeter: What everyone, except perhaps one poster, seems to overlook here is the equally important question of interior layout of the machine. While of course buying a reasonably high end machine, you should look very closely at the differences there. I've got a Bosh about 7-8 years old, that has never needed repairs, and although I've got no complaints about it's abillity to wash dishes, glasses, flatware, pots and indeed anything I stuff into it, the actual stuffing is the problem. The bottom layer only just allows for things about the height of an ordinaty dinner plate, anything higher has to go into the top layer, including utensils much higher than a standard dinner knife, big lids etc., and of course the force of the water is less in the top layer. What I'd really like is something like the Miele ( unfortunately probably not sold in US, being a danish product ). It's definitely high end, it has got a tall bottom layer, a shallower upper layer and a shallow top tray for flatware etc.Unfortunately the price is supreme end. To several posters: In a small family you have to rinse reasonably well before placing in the DW, if you only run the machine when it's full (about every two days ). I may be wrong here, considering water and energy use it might in reality be cheaper to just bung it in and run the rinse program daily, or even to wash daily. Any thoughts on this? Kim "Skeeter" > wrote in message ... > OK. So I guess I will go with the Bosch and be careful about the scraping > and etching. You never know where a post will go. Thanks for all the > comments and advice. > Dee: Is there some sort of subliminal activity going on in the bottom pic > of your etching? Gives the old line "Would you like to come back to my > place and see my etchings?" a new meaning... > > "Skeeter" > wrote in message > ... > > Anyone have any comments on repair historys and support? I am about to > take > > the plunge and want to get any last minute thoughts on their reliability > and > > how I will be treated if it does break down. > > Thanks > > > > > > |
|
|||
|
|||
Bosch dishwashers
"Dan O." > wrote in message ... > > > >> >Jon Endres, PE wrote in message ... > >> > > >> >I hate my Kitchenaid dishwasher - it deposits all > >> >those particles that the grinder doesn't dispose > >> >of, right back inside all the glassware on the upper > >> >rack. I will never own another one with a grinder. > > >> Sounds more like you have a problem with yours > >> that needs looking into. Possible causes are an > >> improperly installed drain hose or a problem in > >> the pump's "check valve". > >> > >> I would suggest you put $100 into having a > >> *professional* look into it for you rather than > >> spending $800+ on a new dishwasher. > > >Jon Endres, PE wrote > > > >Checked both. Drain hose was routed exactly > >according to manufacturer's instructions, by the > >local appliance shop, and the check valve was > >replaced. Neither had very much effect. The > >only way we can get glassware clean is by > >washing on the bottom rack. > > I'm afraid I can't tell you where the problem is looking from here but > I am confident there is a problem in your unit and it is not an > inherent problem with the brand. Some models may need a revised upper > spray arm but your condition can also be caused by insufficient water > amoung other things. > > If you've had a *factory authorized* KitchenAid service depot out to > check it out and they couldn't find the problem, I suggest you ask for > a different technician or call a whole different *factory authorized* > KitchenAid service depot to look into it for you. There are usually > several in any given area. There's a couple other KA service places near me, I'll call around. The upper arm was replaced. Lots of water pressure and flow. Can't figure it out. We have been using a liquid because of resolidification concerns with powdered detergents in the septic tank, will be switching to a powder soon. We'll only be living here about another year, but I hate to stick the next owner (or a tenant) with a POS dishwasher. Next one will be a Bosch anyway. Jon E |
Reply |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Forum | |||
dishwashers | General Cooking | |||
dishwashers again | General Cooking | |||
Mechanical Dishwashers | General Cooking | |||
Dishwashers | General Cooking | |||
O.T. Dishwashers | General Cooking |