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  #1 (permalink)   Report Post  
dalton
 
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Default Can Teflon make you sick?

KATU 2 News - Portland, Oregon
www.katu.com

Can Teflon make you sick?

November 14, 2003 - Teflon, one of the most popular non-stick pan
products, can emit fumes that make you sick if it is allowed to get
hot enough. According to ABCNews, the makers of Teflon have known
about the problems for years.

To learn about the health problem, ABCNews went to the kitchen with
members of the Environmental Working Group.

They say that when a Teflon coated pan reaches 554-degrees, ultra-fine
particles start coming off the pan. The particles can imbed in the
lungs and lead to "Teflon Flu."

The illness causes flu-like symptoms, including headache, backache,
and a temperature between 100 and 104 degrees.

The hotter a Teflon pan gets, the more chemicals are released and at
680 degrees, six toxic gases can begin to come off of heated Teflon.

The Teflon flu is something DuPont has known about for years and with
normal cooking, pans don't get hot enough to present a problem.

In a test done by ABCNews, a piece of bacon was just beginning to get
crisp when a Teflon pan went past the initial danger point of 500
degrees -- the temperature Dupont says is never exceeded under normal
cooking conditions at home.

The federal government is now conducting an urgent review of the
chemical involved in making Teflon for possible long-term harm.

================================================== ========


  #2 (permalink)   Report Post  
Edwin Pawlowski
 
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Default Can Teflon make you sick?


"dalton" > wrote in message
> In a test done by ABCNews, a piece of bacon was just beginning to get
> crisp when a Teflon pan went past the initial danger point of 500
> degrees -- the temperature Dupont says is never exceeded under normal
> cooking conditions at home.


My guess is the methodology is wrong. First off, how often do you fry only
one piece of bacon? The more coverage of the pan, the less likely it is to
overheat. Bacon is best done in a cast iron pan anyway. Or baked in the
oven. They should have turned the heat down, but they just wanted to show a
potential problem as this is ratings month.

Teflon pans **properly used**, will not reach the 500 degree mark.

Yes, I can make a pan reach danger levels, but in my ordinary cooking, it
never happens.
Ed

http://pages.cthome.net/edhome



  #3 (permalink)   Report Post  
David Lawson
 
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Default Can Teflon make you sick?

In article > ,
"Edwin Pawlowski" > wrote:

> "dalton" > wrote in message
> > In a test done by ABCNews, a piece of bacon was just beginning to get
> > crisp when a Teflon pan went past the initial danger point of 500
> > degrees -- the temperature Dupont says is never exceeded under normal
> > cooking conditions at home.

>
> My guess is the methodology is wrong. First off, how often do you fry only
> one piece of bacon? The more coverage of the pan, the less likely it is to
> overheat. Bacon is best done in a cast iron pan anyway. Or baked in the
> oven. They should have turned the heat down, but they just wanted to show a
> potential problem as this is ratings month.
>
> Teflon pans **properly used**, will not reach the 500 degree mark.
>
> Yes, I can make a pan reach danger levels, but in my ordinary cooking, it
> never happens.
> Ed
>
>
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome
>
>
>


The phenomenom is known in the lab and plant as "TFE flu" pronounced as
'teefee flu'. It can also happen when a dry lubricant (Vydax©, TFE
Teflon© sprays, etc.) come in contact with a hot surface, or even a lit
cigarette (common when non-flammable propellants were used.) Also, on
the older Teflon© pans, the solvent for TFE(tetra-flouro-ethylene)
coating is methyl methacrylate, or acrylic plastic (Plexiglass©, a Rohm
and Haas product name). The pan was sprayed with a solvent based mixture
of MM and TFE, the solvent flashed off, and into the paint oven - a
convection oven with 1/2 degree control. The MM would melt, the
resulting liquid would dissolve the TFE, and the stuff would coat the
pan. Methyl Methacrylate is pretty nasty stuff, causing a migraine type
headache if the fumes were inhaled.

Normally, if the pan is used with a cooking oil, no problem is
incurred if the oil is kept below the smoke point, since the temperature
of TFE breakdown (sublimation) is above that point. With water type
cooking, there is usually no problem at all.

Dave Lawson
  #4 (permalink)   Report Post  
Blanche Nonken
 
Posts: n/a
Default Can Teflon make you sick?

"Edwin Pawlowski" > wrote:

> My guess is the methodology is wrong. First off, how often do you fry only
> one piece of bacon?


Pretty frequently.
  #5 (permalink)   Report Post  
Sheellah
 
Posts: n/a
Default Can Teflon make you sick?

Would anyone know if the problem is in all nonsticks? There are so many other
brands such as Quantanium, Excaliber, Quantum and Quantum II. I'm just
wondering if they all use the same chemicals to make them nonstick, and if the
differences between brands is mostly in the substrate preparation, and
application.


  #6 (permalink)   Report Post  
H. W. Hans Kuntze
 
Posts: n/a
Default Can Teflon make you sick?

Sheellah wrote:

>Would anyone know if the problem is in all nonsticks? There are so many =

other
>brands such as Quantanium, Excaliber, Quantum and Quantum II.
>

They *ALL* have to buy the TEFLON=AE From DuPont.

> I'm just
>wondering if they all use the same chemicals to make them nonstick, and =

if the
>differences between brands is mostly in the substrate preparation, and
>application.
> =20
>

You got it.

--=20
Sincerly,

C=3D=A6-)=A7 H. W. Hans Kuntze, CMC, S.g.K. (_o_)
http://www.cmcchef.com , chef<AT>cmcchef.com
"Don't cry because it's over, Smile because it Happened"
_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/=20

  #7 (permalink)   Report Post  
Marke DB Johnston
 
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Default Can Teflon make you sick?


"Edwin Pawlowski" > wrote in message
. com...
>
> "dalton" > wrote in message
> > In a test done by ABCNews, a piece of bacon was just beginning to get
> > crisp when a Teflon pan went past the initial danger point of 500
> > degrees -- the temperature Dupont says is never exceeded under normal
> > cooking conditions at home.

>
> My guess is the methodology is wrong. First off, how often do you fry

only
> one piece of bacon? The more coverage of the pan, the less likely it is

to
> overheat. Bacon is best done in a cast iron pan anyway. Or baked in the
> oven. They should have turned the heat down, but they just wanted to show

a
> potential problem as this is ratings month.
>
> Teflon pans **properly used**, will not reach the 500 degree mark.
>
> Yes, I can make a pan reach danger levels, but in my ordinary cooking, it
> never happens.
> Ed


Really? you've never stuck a 'stove top' pan in the oven?

I know I have- incl teflon ones.


  #8 (permalink)   Report Post  
Debbie Deutsch
 
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Default Can Teflon make you sick?

"Marke DB Johnston" > wrote in
:

>>
>> Teflon pans **properly used**, will not reach the 500 degree mark.
>>
>> Yes, I can make a pan reach danger levels, but in my ordinary
>> cooking, it never happens.
>> Ed

>
> Really? you've never stuck a 'stove top' pan in the oven?
>
> I know I have- incl teflon ones.
>
>
>


Sheesh, unless you are broiling, your oven temperature is almost always
well below 500F.

For me the only exception is when I am baking pizza. Then I crank the
tempreature up to 500 and let the stone heat for an hour or so. What other
recipes call for oven temperatures of 500F or higher?

Debbie

--
Anti-spam advisory: The email address used to post this article is a throw-
away address. It will be invalidated and replaced with another if and when
it is found by spammers.
  #9 (permalink)   Report Post  
Fred
 
Posts: n/a
Default Can Teflon make you sick?


"dalton" > wrote in message
...
> KATU 2 News - Portland, Oregon
> www.katu.com
>
> Can Teflon make you sick?
>
> November 14, 2003 - Teflon, one of the most popular non-stick pan
> products, can emit fumes that make you sick if it is allowed to get
> hot enough. According to ABCNews, the makers of Teflon have known
> about the problems for years.
>
> To learn about the health problem, ABCNews went to the kitchen with
> members of the Environmental Working Group.
>
> They say that when a Teflon coated pan reaches 554-degrees, ultra-fine
> particles start coming off the pan. The particles can imbed in the
> lungs and lead to "Teflon Flu."
>
> The illness causes flu-like symptoms, including headache, backache,
> and a temperature between 100 and 104 degrees.
>
> The hotter a Teflon pan gets, the more chemicals are released and at
> 680 degrees, six toxic gases can begin to come off of heated Teflon.
>
> The Teflon flu is something DuPont has known about for years and with
> normal cooking, pans don't get hot enough to present a problem.
>
> In a test done by ABCNews, a piece of bacon was just beginning to get
> crisp when a Teflon pan went past the initial danger point of 500
> degrees -- the temperature Dupont says is never exceeded under normal
> cooking conditions at home.
>
> The federal government is now conducting an urgent review of the
> chemical involved in making Teflon for possible long-term harm.
>
> ================================================== ========
>
>


As far as I know, nobody has ever gotten sick from teflon "fumes." I think
you can go to the media and find examples of studies that show that eating,
breathing or drinking anything is unhealthy. Life's too short.

Fred
Knife Outlet
http://www.knifeoutlet.com


  #10 (permalink)   Report Post  
Amanda
 
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Default Can Teflon make you sick?

Blanche Nonken > wrote in message >. ..
> "Edwin Pawlowski" > wrote:
>
> > My guess is the methodology is wrong. First off, how often do you fry only
> > one piece of bacon?

>
> Pretty frequently.


I fried one egg (or 2 sometimes).


  #11 (permalink)   Report Post  
Bill
 
Posts: n/a
Default Can Teflon make you sick?

On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 15:56:12 GMT, (dalton) wrote:

>KATU 2 News - Portland, Oregon
>
www.katu.com
>
>Can Teflon make you sick?
>
>November 14, 2003 - Teflon, one of the most popular non-stick pan
>products, can emit fumes that make you sick if it is allowed to get
>hot enough. According to ABCNews, the makers of Teflon have known
>about the problems for years.
>
>To learn about the health problem, ABCNews went to the kitchen with
>members of the Environmental Working Group.
>
>They say that when a Teflon coated pan reaches 554-degrees, ultra-fine
>particles start coming off the pan. The particles can imbed in the
>lungs and lead to "Teflon Flu."
>
>The illness causes flu-like symptoms, including headache, backache,
>and a temperature between 100 and 104 degrees.
>
>The hotter a Teflon pan gets, the more chemicals are released and at
>680 degrees, six toxic gases can begin to come off of heated Teflon.
>
>The Teflon flu is something DuPont has known about for years and with
>normal cooking, pans don't get hot enough to present a problem.
>
>In a test done by ABCNews, a piece of bacon was just beginning to get
>crisp when a Teflon pan went past the initial danger point of 500
>degrees -- the temperature Dupont says is never exceeded under normal
>cooking conditions at home.
>
>The federal government is now conducting an urgent review of the
>chemical involved in making Teflon for possible long-term harm.
>
>================================================= =========
>


That report on ABC last night was enough for the wife and I! We went
right out and bought us a new set of Calphalon pots and pans, came
back home and got all our old teflon coated pots and pans out of the
cabinet and through them right in the trash can.

Damn, I wonder if the ABC Executives own stock in Calphalon?

Regards,
Bill

  #12 (permalink)   Report Post  
Steve Turner
 
Posts: n/a
Default Can Teflon make you sick?

(dalton) wrote:

>KATU 2 News - Portland, Oregon
>
www.katu.com
>
>Can Teflon make you sick?
>
>November 14, 2003 - Teflon, one of the most popular non-stick pan
>products, can emit fumes that make you sick if it is allowed to get
>hot enough. According to ABCNews, the makers of Teflon have known
>about the problems for years.


Yeah, and so has just about everyone else except, apparently, for the
dipshits at ABCNews.

Anything for a "story."

Steve Turner

Real address contains worldnet instead of spamnet
  #13 (permalink)   Report Post  
Edwin Pawlowski
 
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Default Can Teflon make you sick?


"Amanda" > wrote in message
>
> I fried one egg (or 2 sometimes).


So do I. But the temperature is no where near the 500 mark. Bet yours is
not either.
Ed

http://pages.cthome.net/edhome



  #14 (permalink)   Report Post  
Edwin Pawlowski
 
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Default Can Teflon make you sick?


"Marke DB Johnston" > wrote in message
>
> Really? you've never stuck a 'stove top' pan in the oven?
>
> I know I have- incl teflon ones.


I do it all the time. Usually the cast iron or SS pans. But the oven
temperature is not 500 degrees. I generally do that at 350, max 400. Well
below the "danger point"

Even if the oven was 500, it would take some time for the surface of the pan
to reach that temperature.
Ed

http://pages.cthome.net/edhome



  #15 (permalink)   Report Post  
Sheellah
 
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Default Can Teflon make you sick?

<< They *ALL* have to buy the TEFLON=AE From DuPont. >>

I thought that different companies developed their own nonstick solutions,
exclusive from Dupont. Companies such as Whitford, which makes Excaliber and
Quantum, license their coatings to cookware manufacturers. Their coatings are
in competition with Duponts. I was also under the impression Calphalon
developed their own propietary nonstick coatings. At least that's what they
inferred when I asked them.

<< That report on ABC last night was enough for the wife and I! We went right
out and bought us a new set of Calphalon pots and pans, came back home and got
all our old teflon coated pots and pans out of the
cabinet and through them right in the trash can. >>

Wait! Next month they will do a story of the dangers of anodized cookware, and
the chemicals used in the anodizing process ;-(. Even stainless leaches nickel
into food. The safest cookware is glass, and vitreous enamel such as Le
Creuset.


  #16 (permalink)   Report Post  
Edwin Pawlowski
 
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Default Can Teflon make you sick?


"Sheellah" > wrote in message

> The safest cookware is glass, and vitreous enamel such as Le
> Creuset.


No, Le Creuset is very dangerous. Dateline had a segment about how a lady
dropped a pan on her toe and fractured it. She is suing because no one told
her that dropping heavy things can break a toe. Her lawyers are fighting to
have the release of the movie about it held until the case is settled.
Ed


  #17 (permalink)   Report Post  
frankg
 
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Default Can Teflon make you sick?

>On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 15:56:12 GMT, (dalton) wrote:

>KATU 2 News - Portland, Oregon
>
www.katu.com
>
>Can Teflon make you sick?
>
>


Probably when used in certain ways. I really don't think if used like
most people it will do much harm in the "short" run but as to long
term effects that could be another story as I can't say.

It is my believe only (based on my knowledge of other things) that
teflon will come off in some chemical state if subjected to too much
heat or if you recycle the hot/cold temperatures beyond a certain
number of times. I don't know how many times but I think that will
depend on other things to determine.

Now with all this debate I had to replace a teflon fry pan today and I
debated whether to go with teflon again. I decided to go with teflon
again because I reasoned that based on the way we've used it, it
hasn't caused any short term effect. I can't say if the long term is
a problem tho. But since I've already used the stuff before I'm not
sure stopping the use of a teflon pot for me now will make a big
difference in my longevity.

Again this is just my believe.... agree or disagree as you please.
  #18 (permalink)   Report Post  
Don Klipstein
 
Posts: n/a
Default Can Teflon make you sick?

In article >, dalton wrote:
>KATU 2 News - Portland, Oregon
>www.katu.com
>
>Can Teflon make you sick?
>
>November 14, 2003 - Teflon, one of the most popular non-stick pan
>products, can emit fumes that make you sick if it is allowed to get
>hot enough. According to ABCNews, the makers of Teflon have known
>about the problems for years.
>
>To learn about the health problem, ABCNews went to the kitchen with
>members of the Environmental Working Group.
>
>They say that when a Teflon coated pan reaches 554-degrees, ultra-fine
>particles start coming off the pan. The particles can imbed in the
>lungs and lead to "Teflon Flu."
>
>The illness causes flu-like symptoms, including headache, backache,
>and a temperature between 100 and 104 degrees.
>
>The hotter a Teflon pan gets, the more chemicals are released and at
>680 degrees, six toxic gases can begin to come off of heated Teflon.


So you need 680 degrees F to begin making anything bad happen? That's
not any normal cooking temperature!

- Don Klipstein )
  #19 (permalink)   Report Post  
Don Klipstein
 
Posts: n/a
Default Can Teflon make you sick?

In article >, Marke DB Johnston wrote:
>
>"Edwin Pawlowski" > wrote in message
.com...
>>
>> "dalton" > wrote in message
>> > In a test done by ABCNews, a piece of bacon was just beginning to get
>> > crisp when a Teflon pan went past the initial danger point of 500
>> > degrees -- the temperature Dupont says is never exceeded under normal
>> > cooking conditions at home.

>>
>> My guess is the methodology is wrong. First off, how often do you fry

>only
>> one piece of bacon? The more coverage of the pan, the less likely it is

>to
>> overheat. Bacon is best done in a cast iron pan anyway. Or baked in the
>> oven. They should have turned the heat down, but they just wanted to show

>a
>> potential problem as this is ratings month.
>>
>> Teflon pans **properly used**, will not reach the 500 degree mark.
>>
>> Yes, I can make a pan reach danger levels, but in my ordinary cooking, it
>> never happens.
>> Ed

>
>Really? you've never stuck a 'stove top' pan in the oven?


Who sticks stove top pans into ovens set to 500 F and hotter, how often
and why? How often does anyone bake anything at 500F or more, let alone a
stovetop pan?

- Don Klipstein )
  #20 (permalink)   Report Post  
Muhammar
 
Posts: n/a
Default Can Teflon make you sick?

Teflon can make you terminally sick: the Teflon-sprayed bullets were
used by hitmen to pierce the Kevlar body armor more efficiently. I bet
that the those fine Teflon particles imbedded together with your bains
all over the wall must be unhealthy.

Now, seriously - if you are a smoker, avoid getting a fluorinated lab
grease Krytox on your fingers. I heard that the teflon flu actualy
works quite nicely if you happen to contaminate your cigarets with the
stuff and it gets pyrolysed as you smoke it. In case that your boss is
a smoker, it was not me who gave you the idea.


  #22 (permalink)   Report Post  
Frank Logullo
 
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Default Can Teflon make you sick?


"dalton" > wrote in message
...
> KATU 2 News - Portland, Oregon
> www.katu.com
>
> Can Teflon make you sick?


The answer is yes but the rest of the article is BS. Polymer fume fever is
well documented.
Pyrolysis products hexafluoropropylene and perfluoroisobutylene are main
cause and effect is reversible.
Birds are particularly susceptible because of their high respiration rate -
note that canaries were used to detect gas problems in mines. If you were
to burn bacon in an iron pan in the kitchen without exhaust, the fumes could
kill your pet bird.
One time, DuPont published warnings in pet shops but main problem is to
birds outside plants that make Teflon coated fry pans. Teflon is the only
houseware product I know of that has FDA food contact approval. DuPont is
extremely carefull in what it puts in their coating compositons.
Frank


  #23 (permalink)   Report Post  
graham
 
Posts: n/a
Default Can Teflon make you sick?


" The safest cookware is glass, and vitreous enamel such as Le
> Creuset.


Back in the early 60's, the Sunday Times of London did a test on Le Creuset
and found alarming levels of molybdenum and/or cadmium (if memory serves me
correctly) used in the enameling process.

Le Creuset changed their process immediately and it is completely safe.

However, I would not buy any of the cheap, far eastern knock-offs one sees
these days; I don't trust those factories.

Graham


  #24 (permalink)   Report Post  
Boron Elgar
 
Posts: n/a
Default Can Teflon make you sick?

On Sun, 16 Nov 2003 12:56:19 GMT, "Frank Logullo"
> wrote:

>
>"dalton" > wrote in message
...
>> KATU 2 News - Portland, Oregon
>> www.katu.com
>>
>> Can Teflon make you sick?

>
>The answer is yes but the rest of the article is BS. Polymer fume fever is
>well documented.
>Pyrolysis products hexafluoropropylene and perfluoroisobutylene are main
>cause and effect is reversible.
>Birds are particularly susceptible because of their high respiration rate -
>note that canaries were used to detect gas problems in mines. If you were
>to burn bacon in an iron pan in the kitchen without exhaust, the fumes could
>kill your pet bird.


I have certainly seen this often enough in articles that reference
birds, but I have to say that I have a lot of Teflon coated pans, my 4
birds are in 2 cages in the kitchen for many, many years. Though I
consider myself a decent cook, I have also had my share of cooking
"whoopsies," but still never managed to kill any budgies or lovebirds.

I think it must have to be extreme to harm the birdies. By the time it
gets to the point that the birds are being done in, I think you'd darn
near be on the phone calling the fire department or the EMTs.

Boron

  #25 (permalink)   Report Post  
amanda
 
Posts: n/a
Default Can Teflon make you sick?

"Edwin Pawlowski" > wrote in message .com>...
> "Amanda" > wrote in message
> >
> > I fried one egg (or 2 sometimes).

>
> So do I. But the temperature is no where near the 500 mark. Bet yours is
> not either.


I hope not. There were a few times when I put the oil (like the way
we did back home; don't use butter) and wait till there is a bit of
smoke (to make sure that the oil is completely cooked and fry Asian
style, i.e had to hear that frying sound), I would do something else
and forget till I smell the oil burning.

I stopped buying those Teflon thing and got "Calphalon Professional
Non-Stick Omelette Pan". It's hard-anodized aluminum thing.

If I do forget and leave till the oil burning to the point that I had
to trhrow it away, does it damage the coating?

Oops..it says on the website
(http://www.epinions.com/hmgd-Cookwar...ay_~full_specs)
that it is oven safe to 4500.

It sure does stick when I use very little oil. I was supposed to be
able to cook without oil but it sticks too badly and I lose the food.
May be I have damaged it.








> Ed
>
>
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome



  #26 (permalink)   Report Post  
Sheellah
 
Posts: n/a
Default Can Teflon make you sick?

Here is a link to a synopsis of the 20/20 show on Teflon.

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/2020/..._031114-1.html

It says that pans reach harmful levels of heat with this coating in just a few
minutes!

<< DuPont says that fumes are released from the pan when it is overheated,
which they say occurs at temperatures that are not reached during normal
cooking.

As the Environmental Working Group showed 20/20 in a kitchen demonstration,
however, a pan can reach that temperature in just a few minutes. >>
  #27 (permalink)   Report Post  
Edwin Pawlowski
 
Posts: n/a
Default Can Teflon make you sick?


"Sheellah" > wrote in message
...
> Here is a link to a synopsis of the 20/20 show on Teflon.
>
>

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/2020/...n_031114-1.htm
l
>
> It says that pans reach harmful levels of heat with this coating in just a

few
> minutes!
>
> << DuPont says that fumes are released from the pan when it is overheated,
> which they say occurs at temperatures that are not reached during normal
> cooking.
>
> As the Environmental Working Group showed 20/20 in a kitchen

demonstration,
> however, a pan can reach that temperature in just a few minutes. >>


Thanks for the link. The article is interesting in that it shows some
serious effects of Teflon in the production stages. I'm not doubting that
one bit. Chemicals can do things like that.

The raw state and the finished product are not necessarily of the same
volitility or hazard. A birth defect in a person that is handling thousands
of pounds of an ingredient is not necessarily going to occur in someone that
uses the finished product. We're comparing things like dried paint and wet
paint. Latex paint in a can is considered hazardous material, however, the
dried paint on your walls is perfectly safe.

Sodium hypochlorite is very caustic, will burn your skin, corrode metal
parts and kill you if you drink it. All sorts of precautions must be taken
when handling it. In proper dilution, we use it to sanitize our kitchens
and whiten our clothes. We know it as chlorine bleach.


  #28 (permalink)   Report Post  
mp
 
Posts: n/a
Default Can Teflon make you sick?

> Oops..it says on the website
>

(http://www.epinions.com/hmgd-Cookwar...nal_Non_Stick_
II_Omelette_Pans/display_~full_specs)
> that it is oven safe to 4500.


That's obviously a typo. 4500 degrees would be enough to not only melt the
pan, but the stove too.


  #29 (permalink)   Report Post  
Jim Wagner
 
Posts: n/a
Default Can Teflon make you sick?

I don't know much about whether teflon will make you sick,
but as for cooking temperatures reaching 500 degrees I
ran a little experiment.

First, I turned my electric stove burner to high and
measured how hot it got how fast with an infrared
remote thermometer. The thermometer reads up to
518 degrees F. It hit that within one minute and the
burner hadn't reached the red hot state. It didn't reach
full red for several minutes.

Next, I put a wok with about a tablespoon of oil in it
on the red hot burner. The oil began smoking at about
480F - which took about 30 seconds to reach. About
10 seconds after that the thermometer went off scale.

My conclusion is that it's pretty easy to exceed 500 degrees
on an electric stove. It happens pretty fast, too.

Now, it's true that adding food to that hot wok would
bring the temperature down, but any hesitation or
lack of attention on the cook's part and the surface of
the wok will go past 500 degrees pretty easily.

Since that's the temperature this thread seems
concerned about, and the teflon is bonded to that pan's
surface, then if you're concerned about teflon giving
off toxic fumes or substances you should never use
that teflon coated pan when cooking on high heat with
the chance of the pan being essentially empty.

In the case of wok cooking it's usual practice to put
the empty wok on high heat to heat it up before adding
the oil. I'd think it would routinely heat up over
500 degrees using it that way.

And yes, we just switched back to a carbon steel wok
and tossed the non-stick one :-( It was the only
non-stick stove top pan we owned anyway. Everything
else is stainless or cast iron.

Jim Wagner

  #30 (permalink)   Report Post  
Edwin Pawlowski
 
Posts: n/a
Default Can Teflon make you sick?


"Jim Wagner" > wrote in message
>
> Next, I put a wok with about a tablespoon of oil in it
> on the red hot burner. The oil began smoking at about
> 480F - which took about 30 seconds to reach. About
> 10 seconds after that the thermometer went off scale.
>
> My conclusion is that it's pretty easy to exceed 500 degrees
> on an electric stove. It happens pretty fast, too.


Your conclusion is good for woks with a tablespoon of oil. Something that
people using them should be aware of.

How about repeating the test using a normal frying pan and temperatures
used for frying eggs, or hamburgers, etc. Wok cooking, expecially Teflon
coated ones are a tiny minority of the real life cooking done every day.

>
> if you're concerned about teflon giving
> off toxic fumes or substances you should never use
> that teflon coated pan when cooking on high heat with
> the chance of the pan being essentially empty.


Sensible.

>
> And yes, we just switched back to a carbon steel wok
> and tossed the non-stick one :-( It was the only
> non-stick stove top pan we owned anyway. Everything
> else is stainless or cast iron.
>
> Jim Wagner


Traditionally, the hand hammered wok is used over very hot coals. The
design is efficient and the wok system of cooking means foods should be
moved to certain areas as they are cooked to reduce the heat. Seems to me a
Teflon wok defeats the purpose of doing so.
You will be a happier cook now.
Ed




  #31 (permalink)   Report Post  
El Senor
 
Posts: n/a
Default Can Teflon make you sick?

"Don Klipstein" > wrote:
> Who sticks stove top pans into ovens set to 500 F and hotter, how often
> and why?


I broil food in stovetop pans all the time. Most oven pans have very low
walls and therefore can't be used if you are broiling with sauce or oil.
Stovetop pans are also much easier to clean if the aluminum foil leaks.

-Mike


  #33 (permalink)   Report Post  
Lloyd Parker
 
Posts: n/a
Default Can Teflon make you sick?

In article >,
(Don Klipstein) wrote:
>In article >, dalton wrote:
>>KATU 2 News - Portland, Oregon
>>
www.katu.com
>>
>>Can Teflon make you sick?
>>
>>November 14, 2003 - Teflon, one of the most popular non-stick pan
>>products, can emit fumes that make you sick if it is allowed to get
>>hot enough. According to ABCNews, the makers of Teflon have known
>>about the problems for years.
>>
>>To learn about the health problem, ABCNews went to the kitchen with
>>members of the Environmental Working Group.
>>
>>They say that when a Teflon coated pan reaches 554-degrees, ultra-fine
>>particles start coming off the pan. The particles can imbed in the
>>lungs and lead to "Teflon Flu."
>>
>>The illness causes flu-like symptoms, including headache, backache,
>>and a temperature between 100 and 104 degrees.
>>
>>The hotter a Teflon pan gets, the more chemicals are released and at
>>680 degrees, six toxic gases can begin to come off of heated Teflon.

>
> So you need 680 degrees F to begin making anything bad happen? That's
>not any normal cooking temperature!
>
> - Don Klipstein )

Nobody ever said it was. This happens when, among other things, you let a pot
boil dry.
  #34 (permalink)   Report Post  
jmk
 
Posts: n/a
Default Can Teflon make you sick?



On 11/15/2003 10:56 AM, dalton wrote:
> Can Teflon make you sick?


The EPA is looking into it: http://www.epa.gov/opptintr/pfoa/index.htm

--
jmk in NC

  #35 (permalink)   Report Post  
Ron Peterson
 
Posts: n/a
Default Can Teflon make you sick?

Bill > wrote in message >. ..

> That report on ABC last night was enough for the wife and I! We went
> right out and bought us a new set of Calphalon pots and pans, came
> back home and got all our old teflon coated pots and pans out of the
> cabinet and through them right in the trash can.


> Damn, I wonder if the ABC Executives own stock in Calphalon?


Calphalon uses PTFE which is the about same substance as Teflon. Safe
cookware would include ceramic, stainless steel, and titanium.

--
Ron


  #36 (permalink)   Report Post  
Ron Peterson
 
Posts: n/a
Default Can Teflon make you sick?

"Frank Logullo" > wrote in message >...


> Birds are particularly susceptible because of their high respiration rate -
> note that canaries were used to detect gas problems in mines. If you were
> to burn bacon in an iron pan in the kitchen without exhaust, the fumes could
> kill your pet bird.


Parrots have a lower metabolism than other more active birds but are
still susceptible. It may be matter of blood volume being lower or the
difference in breathing mechanism.

--
Ron
  #37 (permalink)   Report Post  
Rick
 
Posts: n/a
Default Can Teflon make you sick?

"Ron Peterson" > wrote in message om...
> "Frank Logullo" > wrote in message >...
>
>
> > Birds are particularly susceptible because of their high respiration rate -
> > note that canaries were used to detect gas problems in mines. If you were
> > to burn bacon in an iron pan in the kitchen without exhaust, the fumes could
> > kill your pet bird.

>
> Parrots have a lower metabolism than other more active birds but are
> still susceptible. It may be matter of blood volume being lower or the
> difference in breathing mechanism.


Yes, birds have respitory systems that are very, very different
than humans. Inhaled toxins are spread almost instantly
throughout their bodies.

The old cliche about canaries in coal mines is not just a myth.

Rick


  #38 (permalink)   Report Post  
monty
 
Posts: n/a
Default Can Teflon make you sick?


"Ron Peterson" > wrote in message
om...
> "Frank Logullo" > wrote in message

>...
>
>
> > Birds are particularly susceptible because of their high respiration

rate -
> > note that canaries were used to detect gas problems in mines. If you

were
> > to burn bacon in an iron pan in the kitchen without exhaust, the fumes

could
> > kill your pet bird.

>
> Parrots have a lower metabolism than other more active birds but are
> still susceptible.


This parrot is dead; it has ceased to be; it's a stiff; it's bereft of life;
it has left this mortal coil; it has gone to meet its maker; if you hadn't
sold me that teflon coated cookware, it wouldn't be pushing up the daisies!
Monty ;-)


  #39 (permalink)   Report Post  
Ear Rings
 
Posts: n/a
Default Can Teflon make you sick?

Dupont has recognized the hazards of teflon cooking pans publicly.

The Texas Zoo lost 18 large birds to an overheated teflon pan.

"Fred" > wrote in message
et...
>
> "dalton" > wrote in message
> ...
> > KATU 2 News - Portland, Oregon
> > www.katu.com
> >
> > Can Teflon make you sick?
> >
> > November 14, 2003 - Teflon, one of the most popular non-stick pan
> > products, can emit fumes that make you sick if it is allowed to get
> > hot enough. According to ABCNews, the makers of Teflon have known
> > about the problems for years.
> >
> > To learn about the health problem, ABCNews went to the kitchen with
> > members of the Environmental Working Group.
> >
> > They say that when a Teflon coated pan reaches 554-degrees, ultra-fine
> > particles start coming off the pan. The particles can imbed in the
> > lungs and lead to "Teflon Flu."
> >
> > The illness causes flu-like symptoms, including headache, backache,
> > and a temperature between 100 and 104 degrees.
> >
> > The hotter a Teflon pan gets, the more chemicals are released and at
> > 680 degrees, six toxic gases can begin to come off of heated Teflon.
> >
> > The Teflon flu is something DuPont has known about for years and with
> > normal cooking, pans don't get hot enough to present a problem.
> >
> > In a test done by ABCNews, a piece of bacon was just beginning to get
> > crisp when a Teflon pan went past the initial danger point of 500
> > degrees -- the temperature Dupont says is never exceeded under normal
> > cooking conditions at home.
> >
> > The federal government is now conducting an urgent review of the
> > chemical involved in making Teflon for possible long-term harm.
> >
> > ================================================== ========
> >
> >

>
> As far as I know, nobody has ever gotten sick from teflon "fumes." I

think
> you can go to the media and find examples of studies that show that

eating,
> breathing or drinking anything is unhealthy. Life's too short.
>
> Fred
> Knife Outlet
> http://www.knifeoutlet.com
>
>



  #40 (permalink)   Report Post  
Kristofer D. Dale
 
Posts: n/a
Default Can Teflon make you sick?

> Can Teflon make you sick?

Sure it can! See how you feel after a Teflon-coated bullet rips through
your ribcage... ;^]

--
_o Kristofer Dale,
_ \<,_ ragged individualist,
_____( )/ ( )_____ statistic at large...

p.s. Learn and live, http://www.vitaletherapeutics.org
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