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Cooking Equipment (rec.food.equipment) Discussion of food-related equipment. Includes items used in food preparation and storage, including major and minor appliances, gadgets and utensils, infrastructure, and food- and recipe-related software. |
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GARY?
Vox Humana wrote: > Look, I'm a dentist. You don't know what you're talking about. You are > right about fluoridated water being of little benefit to adults. The rest > of this is simply a political argument. I dont care if you are a dentist. Makes little difference since dentists all have differing views on the subject. I do agree that its more of a political argument though. |
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GARY?
Yes, but which is easiest to dispose of?
graham > wrote in message news:TSknb.200497$6C4.197131@pd7tw1no... > > "Michael Baugh" > wrote in message > .. . > > Fluorine is a byproduct of some industrial processes. > > > So are wieners! > > |
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GARY?
On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 23:04:43 -0500, "Michael Baugh"
> wrote: >Yes, but which is easiest to dispose of? > >graham > wrote in message >news:TSknb.200497$6C4.197131@pd7tw1no... >> >> "Michael Baugh" > wrote in message >> .. . >> > Fluorine is a byproduct of some industrial processes. >> >> >> So are wieners! >> >> > Im sure you lads are aware..that there is a huge difference between Flourine, and flouride..right? I should remind you of the old chemistry rhyme... Johnny was a chemist but Jonny is no more. What Jonny thought was H2O Was H2SO4 http://www.ucc.ie/ucc/depts/chem/dol...m/elem009.html Some nasty stuff..its not nice to see people burst into flame. Gunner Confronting Liberals with the facts of reality is very much akin to clubbing baby seals. It gets boring after a while, but because Liberals are so stupid it is easy work." Steven M. Barry |
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GARY?
"Miles" > wrote in message news:83lnb.35959$Rd4.2872@fed1read07... > > > Vox Humana wrote: > > > Look, I'm a dentist. You don't know what you're talking about. You are > > right about fluoridated water being of little benefit to adults. The rest > > of this is simply a political argument. > > I dont care if you are a dentist. Makes little difference since > dentists all have differing views on the subject. I do agree that its > more of a political argument though. > We're aren't taking about different views. There were two statements of fact: 1) Children have "soft" teeth, and 2) topical fluoride treatments are more effective than systemic fluoride. Both of these statements are false. |
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GARY?
"Gunner" > wrote in message ... > On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 23:04:43 -0500, "Michael Baugh" > > wrote: > > >Yes, but which is easiest to dispose of? > > > >graham > wrote in message > >news:TSknb.200497$6C4.197131@pd7tw1no... > >> > >> "Michael Baugh" > wrote in message > >> .. . > >> > Fluorine is a byproduct of some industrial processes. > >> > >> > >> So are wieners! > >> > >> > > > Im sure you lads are aware..that there is a huge difference between > Flourine, and flouride..right? > > I should remind you of the old chemistry rhyme... > > Johnny was a chemist > but Jonny is no more. > What Jonny thought was H2O > Was H2SO4 > > > http://www.ucc.ie/ucc/depts/chem/dol...m/elem009.html > > Some nasty stuff..its not nice to see people burst into flame. > > Gunner > > > Confronting Liberals with the facts of reality is very much akin to > clubbing baby seals. It gets boring after a while, but because Liberals are > so stupid it is easy work." Steven M. Barry But conservatives are so dumb that they don't notice when their freedoms are taken away! |
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GARY?
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GARY?
On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 14:51:12 GMT, "graham" > wrote:
> >"Gunner" > wrote in message .. . >> On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 23:04:43 -0500, "Michael Baugh" >> > wrote: >> >> >Yes, but which is easiest to dispose of? >> > >> >graham > wrote in message >> >news:TSknb.200497$6C4.197131@pd7tw1no... >> >> >> >> "Michael Baugh" > wrote in message >> >> .. . >> >> > Fluorine is a byproduct of some industrial processes. >> >> >> >> >> >> So are wieners! >> >> >> >> >> > >> Im sure you lads are aware..that there is a huge difference between >> Flourine, and flouride..right? >> >> I should remind you of the old chemistry rhyme... >> >> Johnny was a chemist >> but Jonny is no more. >> What Jonny thought was H2O >> Was H2SO4 >> >> >> http://www.ucc.ie/ucc/depts/chem/dol...m/elem009.html >> >> Some nasty stuff..its not nice to see people burst into flame. >> >> Gunner >> >> >> Confronting Liberals with the facts of reality is very much akin to >> clubbing baby seals. It gets boring after a while, but because Liberals >are >> so stupid it is easy work." Steven M. Barry > >But conservatives are so dumb that they don't notice when their freedoms are >taken away! > We have noticed this for the past 60+ years. Its just taken this long to get off our asses and start swinging the country to the Right, and makeing Liberals irrelevant, and sinking the DNC, though the Dems have gone a long way to committing political suicide all on their own. The hybrid Socialist/Fascist agenda most Neo-Libs and Dems display, has finally caused enough Joe Sixpacks to get up and start voting. Ever since that rat ******* FDR, the Lefties have been taking away our freedoms, one small slice at a time. Fortunately, that is coming to an end, and with a bit of luck, the Lefties will all be doing the Spandau Ballet on lamp posts in every town and city. Got Rope? Gunner Confronting Liberals with the facts of reality is very much akin to clubbing baby seals. It gets boring after a while, but because Liberals are so stupid it is easy work." Steven M. Barry |
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GARY?
Vox Humana wrote: > > We're aren't taking about different views. There were two statements of > fact: 1) Children have "soft" teeth, and 2) topical fluoride treatments are > more effective than systemic fluoride. Both of these statements are false. You seem to think that your view is the only one ALL dentists have on the matter. That would be 100% false. |
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GARY?
"Vox Humana" > wrote in message ... > > "Miles" > wrote in message > news:83lnb.35959$Rd4.2872@fed1read07... > > > > > > Vox Humana wrote: > > > > > Look, I'm a dentist. You don't know what you're talking about. You are > > > right about fluoridated water being of little benefit to adults. The > rest > > > of this is simply a political argument. > > > > I dont care if you are a dentist. Makes little difference since > > dentists all have differing views on the subject. I do agree that its > > more of a political argument though. > > > > We're aren't taking about different views. There were two statements of > fact: 1) Children have "soft" teeth, and 2) topical fluoride treatments are > more effective than systemic fluoride. Both of these statements are false. I understand that. And people today have infinitely less cavities because of systemic fluoride. But can't parents take the respondibility of putting it in their kids water, etc, so the rest of the population isn't forced to ingest it? I agree with both view points here. If parents would only take that responsibility on, we would all be happier. Unfortunately, too many people want the government to take care of them. I am not one of them. Bonnie |
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GARY?
"BonnieJean" > wrote in message ... > > "Vox Humana" > wrote in message > ... > > > > "Miles" > wrote in message > > news:83lnb.35959$Rd4.2872@fed1read07... > > > > > > > > > Vox Humana wrote: > > > > > > > Look, I'm a dentist. You don't know what you're talking about. You > are > > > > right about fluoridated water being of little benefit to adults. The > > rest > > > > of this is simply a political argument. > > > > > > I dont care if you are a dentist. Makes little difference since > > > dentists all have differing views on the subject. I do agree that its > > > more of a political argument though. > > > > > > > We're aren't taking about different views. There were two statements of > > fact: 1) Children have "soft" teeth, and 2) topical fluoride treatments > are > > more effective than systemic fluoride. Both of these statements are > false. > > I understand that. And people today have infinitely less cavities because of > systemic fluoride. But can't parents take the respondibility of putting it > in their kids water, etc, so the rest of the population isn't forced to > ingest it? I agree with both view points here. If parents would only take > that responsibility on, we would all be happier. Unfortunately, too many > people want the government to take care of them. I am not one of them. Again, that is a political question. Some people see themselves as the government and see their elected officials as an extension of themselves. Therefore, when the "government" does something, it is their agent doing their will. Others see the "government" as a black box that acts contrary to their will. We won't resolve that difference here. There is no system that would be seen as 100% beneficial for all people at all times. You could argue that the government should not be in the water business at all, let alone forcing good dental health on people by delivering fluoridated water to their home. |
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GARY?
"Miles" > wrote in message news:iUDnb.36197$Rd4.7538@fed1read07... > > > Vox Humana wrote: > > > > We're aren't taking about different views. There were two statements of > > fact: 1) Children have "soft" teeth, and 2) topical fluoride treatments are > > more effective than systemic fluoride. Both of these statements are false. > > You seem to think that your view is the only one ALL dentists have on > the matter. That would be 100% false. > No. You are arguing a different point. I accept that all dentists may not have the same view. I am stating proven facts. Systemic fluoride is more effective at preventing cavities than topical fluoride treatments and that childrens' teeth are not soft. Of course, if you have some information that refutes these accepted facts, I would be willing to review it. Remember, that someone doesn't hold a particular belief doesn't meant that the point is a matter of dispute. People are free to believe what they want no matter how foolish or ill-informed. |
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GARY?
BonnieJean wrote: > I understand that. And people today have infinitely less cavities because of > systemic fluoride. But can't parents take the respondibility of putting it > in their kids water, etc, so the rest of the population isn't forced to > ingest it? I agree with both view points here. If parents would only take > that responsibility on, we would all be happier. Unfortunately, too many > people want the government to take care of them. I am not one of them. Thats contary to the liberals views though. They want Government to take responsibility for them. They need Government to tell them whats good for them. Parents do not teach their kids responsibility these days. They coddle them, protect them from failure and blame their problems on someone else. Many politicians prey on that, keep them oppressed and gain their votes. Like you, I hope we can return to the days where people were responsible for themselves and made their own decisions to their wellbeing. |
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GARY?
Vox Humana wrote: > People are free to believe what they want no matter > how foolish or ill-informed. Correct and you have demonstrated that through complete arrogance. Your statements are not fact. They are opinion. Your opinion. |
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GARY?
"Miles" > wrote in message news:eviob.37873$Rd4.2683@fed1read07... > > > Vox Humana wrote: > > > People are free to believe what they want no matter > > how foolish or ill-informed. > > Correct and you have demonstrated that through complete arrogance. Your > statements are not fact. They are opinion. Your opinion. My opinion based on peer reviewed research by the Center for Disease Control, the American Dental Association, and other trusted institutions. Any your opinion is based on what? I'm still waiting to see the sources that support your positions that 1) topical fluoride treatments are more effective than systemic fluoride, and 2) children have "soft" teeth. |
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GARY?
Vox Humana wrote: > My opinion based on peer reviewed research by the Center for Disease > Control, the American Dental Association, and other trusted institutions. > Any your opinion is based on what? I'm still waiting to see the sources > that support your positions that 1) topical fluoride treatments are more > effective than systemic fluoride, and 2) children have "soft" teeth. You're talking politics more than facts. Your 'trusted' institutions are those that you agree with aparently. That must mean the majority that are in disagreement are 'untrusted' to you. Most of the world dental institutions disagree with your assertations. All of my family dentists disagree as well. I'm sure you'll disagree but many world institutions and many USA dentists firmly believe topical treatments are more effective than systemic fluoride especially in adults where teeth are already formed. Tell me, why is Fluorosis far more common in countries that put fluoride in drinking water than other countries? Why is it that the levels of fluoride on average in USA drinking water exceeds what the worlds dental institutions recommend? Lastly, why business is it of our Government to force fluoride in our drinking water? If I wish to add it, I can. Let me decide whats best for me and my family and you decide for yourself. In the end, your statements are your opinion. So are mine. The different institutions are in disagreement. |
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GARY?
"Miles" > wrote in message news:h6Dob.38285$Rd4.10112@fed1read07... > > > > I'm sure you'll disagree but many world institutions and many USA > dentists firmly believe topical treatments are more effective than > systemic fluoride especially in adults where teeth are already formed. Why would I disagree? I stated as much several posts back. Of course, adding fluoride to water is a public health measure and isn't targeted primarily towards adults. There is some benefit to adults, but children benefit most. It must be tough to choke down that fluoridated water when all you see is a future generation of people with good dental health, but don't get much personal benefit. > > Tell me, why is Flores's far more common in countries that put > fluoride in drinking water than other countries? Why is it that the > levels of fluoride on average in USA drinking water exceeds what the > worlds dental institutions recommend? The recommended level of fluoride in water supplies is 0.7 ppm. At that level there should be no fluorosis. If the level of fluoride in your water exceed 0.7 PPM you should contact the water utility company and ask THEM why they choose to exceed the recommended dosage. > > Lastly, why business is it of our Government to force fluoride in our > drinking water? If I wish to add it, I can. Let me decide whats best > for me and my family and you decide for yourself. In the end, your > statements are your opinion. So are mine. The different institutions > are in disagreement. I can't help you cope with living in a civilized world. Many of us choose to participate in a society that values a common defense, clean air and water, public services such as police and fire protection, a standardized highway system, public education, and so on. Short of moving to rural Idaho and living off the grid in a yurt like Raymond Kaczynski, you have to take the good with the bad. I know of no system where everyone shares the same values and agree on everything. I see no problem with people having an abortion if they choose, or for *** people to marry. For those who don't want an abortion then don't have one. If you don't like the water, don't drink it. Don't want to marry someone of the same sex - don't. I find it ironic that the people who bitch the loudest about the tyranny of big government also tend to be one same ones who what to micro-manage the private lives of others. They complain about a few molecules of this or that in the water but vote for people like George Bush who expand the size and scope of government. Frankly, I'm more concerned about the likes of John Ashcroft and his patriot act than I am about fluoride in the water. |
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GARY?
Vox Humana wrote: >Dozens of ranting snipped. Oh man....you lost it big time. From Fluoride to abortion, to anti-bush, gays etc. Kinda hit em all eh? At least you indirectly realized that politics is what its all about and not health. |
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GARY?
"Miles" > wrote in message news:6dCpb.64$Cj1.58@fed1read07... > > > Vox Humana wrote: > > >Dozens of ranting snipped. > > Oh man....you lost it big time. From Fluoride to abortion, to > anti-bush, gays etc. Kinda hit em all eh? At least you indirectly > realized that politics is what its all about and not health. > I knew you would eventually admit that it is all politics. |
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GARY?
Vox Humana wrote: > "Miles" > wrote in message > news:6dCpb.64$Cj1.58@fed1read07... > >> >>Vox Humana wrote: >> >> >Dozens of ranting snipped. >> >>Oh man....you lost it big time. From Fluoride to abortion, to >>anti-bush, gays etc. Kinda hit em all eh? At least you indirectly >>realized that politics is what its all about and not health. >> > > > I knew you would eventually admit that it is all politics. Reverse retort? I already said that early on. Being that it's politics I vote to let me and my doctors/dentists decide whats good for me rather than the Government who is clueless. |
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GARY?
"Miles" > wrote in message news:x6Epb.85$Cj1.68@fed1read07... > > > Vox Humana wrote: > > > "Miles" > wrote in message > > news:6dCpb.64$Cj1.58@fed1read07... > > > >> > >>Vox Humana wrote: > >> > >> >Dozens of ranting snipped. > >> > >>Oh man....you lost it big time. From Fluoride to abortion, to > >>anti-bush, gays etc. Kinda hit em all eh? At least you indirectly > >>realized that politics is what its all about and not health. > >> > > > > > > I knew you would eventually admit that it is all politics. > > Reverse retort? I already said that early on. Being that it's politics > I vote to let me and my doctors/dentists decide whats good for me rather > than the Government who is clueless. > That is your right. No one will come to your home and make you drink the water. There is no doubt that putting fluoride in water is one of the most successful and cost effective public health measure ever undertaken. By the way, have you noticed that most insurance companies will not pay for fluoride treatment for adults? They are only marginally effective for adults. I would be very surprised if your dentist advocated removing fluoride from the public water supply. |
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GARY?
Vox Humana wrote: > I would be very surprised if your dentist advocated removing > fluoride from the public water supply. He does just that. So do many other dentists worldwide. Any gains made are largly negated by adverse effects, healthwise, politically and fiscally. I realize that is my opinion and not yours so no need to refute it, you already have. |
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GARY?
"Miles" > wrote in message news:yQXpb.216$Cj1.199@fed1read07... > > > Vox Humana wrote: > > I would be very surprised if your dentist advocated removing > > fluoride from the public water supply. > > He does just that. So do many other dentists worldwide. Any gains made > are largly negated by adverse effects, healthwise, politically and > fiscally. I realize that is my opinion and not yours so no need to > refute it, you already have. > What are the "adverse effects" at 0.7 PPM? |
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GARY?
Vox Humana wrote: > What are the "adverse effects" at 0.7 PPM? Not a valid question since the level exceeds .7 ppm in numerous areas around the country. But, many studies have shown serious health problems such as skeletal fluorosis, kidney impairment etc. You'll refute these I'm sure but they are well documented. Read JAMA 222:783 - 785. If you're a dentist you'll know what that is. There is concern to many doctors with the effects on people with immune disorders and diabetes. You seem to not point out that the body retains fluoride. The kidney's do not remove 100% of typical daily intake. The other issue is that intake of fluoride comes from MANY other sources besides water. You can't avoid it. Putting it in water does nothing but elevate the already high levels found elsewhere. Whats worse is the form used in water. A waste byproduct. |
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GARY?
Mary Shafer wrote: > > > Maybe for teeth, but drinking fluoridated water has been shown to > reduce hip fractures in the elderly. That is a myth that has been disproven by many. Studies have shown more of the opposite is true. Some suggest it increases bone development. Possibly but other studies have shown any increased development is in the form of weaker overall bone structure. It is a subject of debate still. However, the studies I believe you refer to are known as sodium fluoride ,calcium citrate and vitamin D therapy. They have largly been proven to cause more harm than good. This is also not the same as the waste byproduct form of fluoride found in drinking water. |
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