I'm getting ready to purchase, and I'd like opinions from those of you
who own 30" DF ranges. I'm particularly interested in those with
sealed burners (most of them) and larger ovens with windows. I'm
considering Viking, Wolf, Dacor, DCS, KitchenAid and the new JennAir
with the double oven. I plan to see/test them all in a demo kitchen,
but would like user opinions of strengths/weaknesses, repairs,
cleanability, broiler quality, simmer quality, etc. Thanks for your
feedback.

debmom > wrote:

> considering Viking, Wolf, Dacor, DCS, KitchenAid and the new JennAir

I've had the 48" Dacor Epicure dual fuel for two years and I love it.
The burners are all identical 15K-BTU units, so there's no need to
decide which to use based on your heat needs.

The pans below the burners are sealed and easy to clean. They'll hold a
spillover bigger than anything I've ever done. Dacor's "smart flame" is
interesting: they suppress the flame directly below the grate fingers
to avoid overheating the grates. I have retrieved dropped food bits
right next to the burner without touching a hot grate: this is both
because there's lots of room between the grate fingers, and because the
grates don't get very hot.

My typical cleaning of the black-enameled burner pans is just a wet
sponge and paper towel. It's so easy to give it a quick swipe that I
just keep the pans clean whenever something drips.

The Dacor will also operate in a power failure (but of course you need
to light with a match). Some ranges won't operate without power.

The 30" Epicure, if I recall, has four of the 14" grates, so there's
plenty of room for large pans. You can slide around among the grates
because they're all flush grates, which makes life easy. A couple of
times I've deliberately heated a tiny saucepan off-center.

Simmer works very well on the burners, even though Dacor provides a
simmer plate. Since I have six burners, I leave the plate on a back
corner at all times. Occasionally, a long slow simmer will require the
plate. This can happen with, say, a pasta sauce. As the contents fully
heat, you may want to move to the simmer plate to cut the heat a bit.

The ceramic-gas broiler is much nicer than a standard electric broiler.
I tend to use mine very little because I can grill outdoors almost all
year, but when I do use it I really like its high heat. And you can
broil with the door closed.

--
- rick http://www.cfcl.com/~rick/
Rick Auricchio Macs Only: Macintosh support
I acknowledge the existence of a higher power, and have therefore installed
surge suppressors.

On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 22:13:31 -0800, Rick Auricchio > wrote:

>I've had the 48" Dacor Epicure dual fuel for two years and I love it.
>The burners are all identical 15K-BTU units, so there's no need to
>decide which to use based on your heat needs.

Center to center how far apart are the burners front to back?

Don <donwiss at panix.com>.

Rich, thanks so much for the comprehensive review on the Dacor Epicure!
I appreciate your time and experience, and will take it into account
in my evaluations!

"debmom" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> I'm getting ready to purchase, and I'd like opinions from those of you
> who own 30" DF ranges. I'm particularly interested in those with
> sealed burners (most of them) and larger ovens with windows. I'm
> considering Viking, Wolf, Dacor, DCS, KitchenAid and the new JennAir
> with the double oven. I plan to see/test them all in a demo kitchen,
> but would like user opinions of strengths/weaknesses, repairs,
> cleanability, broiler quality, simmer quality, etc. Thanks for your
> feedback.
>

JennAir = Crap. I would scratch that brand off the list right now.

"debmom" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> I'm getting ready to purchase, and I'd like opinions from those of you
> who own 30" DF ranges. I'm particularly interested in those with
> sealed burners (most of them) and larger ovens with windows. I'm
> considering Viking, Wolf, Dacor, DCS, KitchenAid and the new JennAir
> with the double oven. I plan to see/test them all in a demo kitchen,
> but would like user opinions of strengths/weaknesses, repairs,
> cleanability, broiler quality, simmer quality, etc. Thanks for your
> feedback.
>

JennAir = Crap. I would scratch that brand off the list right now.

Debmom,

I have a 30" GE Monogram that has been in my kitchen for about 2
months. It is a very heavy duty range. All of the parts have a solid,
quality feel about them. the top has 4 sealed burners that have a dual
flame (one above the other) that allows cooking from a 500btu simmer to
a whopping 17,000 btu blast that can make steel. The burners have a
sensor that will automatically re-light in the event of a flame out.

It has a reasonably large oven with a hot broiler. I think it has an 8
pass element that trully does the job. The oven is a
standard/convection that holds temperature well and heats quickly. All
of the grates are enameled and can be left in during the self-clean
cycle.

It seems to be a well engineered and robustly constructed appliance --
I think it weighs in at about 430 lbs. I can't say enough good about
it, and I believethat it is made for GE by DCS. Since I was able to get
a terrific price (from a friend who works for a home design center), I
really couldn't justify another model, although I did compare Viking,
Wolf, DCS, Dacor etc, just to get a feel for what I should expect.

If I had it to do again with no budget constraints, I would definately
buy Monogram again.

Hope this helps.

debmom wrote:
> I'm getting ready to purchase, and I'd like opinions from those of you
> who own 30" DF ranges. I'm particularly interested in those with
> sealed burners (most of them) and larger ovens with windows. I'm
> considering Viking, Wolf, Dacor, DCS, KitchenAid and the new JennAir
> with the double oven. I plan to see/test them all in a demo kitchen,
> but would like user opinions of strengths/weaknesses, repairs,
> cleanability, broiler quality, simmer quality, etc. Thanks for your
> feedback.
>
We are replacing our Jenn-Aire DF with a KitchenAid gas-only (although
it has a small electric element to assist the main gas broiler). The
Jenn-Aire electric convection oven was great, but the gas burners (2
plus a grill, with downdraft) were lousy.

I was surprised to find that the 30" DF's seemed to start around $3,000,
except maybe for Kenmore (from Sears). For that kind of dough, the gas
convection oven will be fine. Two features sold me on the KA range
(about $1600 in SS) over a lower priced unit (the Hotpoint best buy in
Consumer Reports, around $500) that realistically would have been
perfectly adequate: the KA Insta-Wok grate (a reversible piece of the
grate above the biggest output burner; one side has 4 prongs that hold a
wok) and the front control panel (no reaching over the cooktop to set
the timer or oven).

The KA oven also has settings for proofing bread and dehydrating.

--

================================================== =============
Regards

Louis Cohen

"Yes, yes, I will desalinate you, you grande morue!"

Émile Zola, Assommoir 1877

Don Wiss wrote:
>
> On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 22:13:31 -0800, Rick Auricchio > wrote:
>
> >I've had the 48" Dacor Epicure dual fuel for two years and I love it.

We've had the 36" Dacor Epicure DF since last august.

> >The burners are all identical 15K-BTU units, so there's no need to
> >decide which to use based on your heat needs.
>
> Center to center how far apart are the burners front to back?

The distance is 12" - both front/rear and sideways. (Just measured mine.)

I concur with just about everything that Rick wrote about his 48". A few
additional items:

1.) Oven size - some are large enough to hold a commercial "full sheet" (such
as the Dacor) and some are not (such as the Wolf that I was originally going
to buy.)

2.) The Dacor is the only DF on the market that has a gas broiler. It is
awesome, and is also used to quickly preheat the oven. However one downside
is that there is no "standard non-convection bake" in the ovens with the 20K
BTU version of the broiler. (Think this is just the 36" and 48".) As an
alternative, one can get the ERDE model with an electric broiler instead of
the gas broiler.

3.) Sometimes there is an issue with the igniters not igniting the flame.
I scrape the metal tip of the igniter a bit with my fingernail and all seems
well for a while. Seems to be a cleaning issue, as it seems most pronounced
after the house cleaners are here. (They've been using a citrus-based degreaser
to clean it. But recently I've started asking them to cover the igniter first.)

4.) The insulation on the oven is impressive. Even after several hours of
baking/roasting, the outside of the door is only slightly warm.

5.) Nit: For what they charge, one would expect a built-in temperature probe
system - like they provide in their wall ovens...

Walt (w6ws at earthlink dot net)

Walter Spector > wrote:

> 2.) The Dacor is the only DF on the market that has a gas broiler. It is
> awesome, and is also used to quickly preheat the oven. However one downside
> is that there is no "standard non-convection bake" in the ovens with the 20K
> BTU version of the broiler.

My 2002 model has standard bake in the large (gas broiler) oven. It
appears Dacor has removed that mode. There was/is an issue with uneven
baking in that oven; I think it was related to heat loss through the
broiler exhaust vent.


> 3.) Sometimes there is an issue with the igniters not igniting the flame.

My igniters rarely fail. If they balk, a slight repositioning of the
brass burner rings or the black metal caps does the trick.


> 4.) The insulation on the oven is impressive. Even after several hours of
> baking/roasting, the outside of the door is only slightly warm.

And the oven interior stays warm for a long time! The cooling fan for
the electronics runs till the oven cools to about 200F. Sometimes this
can take over twenty minutes.

Sorry I've been so long in responding...I just forgot about usenet this
past week!

--
- rick http://www.cfcl.com/~rick/
Rick Auricchio Macs Only: Macintosh support
I acknowledge the existence of a higher power, and have therefore installed
surge suppressors.

For what it is worth, I tried to write a full review of my Viking 30" on
Epinions.com a while back. The only think I might add to that would be
that, while I have never needed service, the flame detection & igniting
system seems flaky. Whenever the stove has been cleaned, I have to spend
time drying the burners off and fiddling to get the sparkers to quit
clicking constantly.

http://www.epinions.com/content_64468651652

--Sandi

debmom wrote:

> I'm getting ready to purchase, and I'd like opinions from those of you
> who own 30" DF ranges. I'm particularly interested in those with
> sealed burners (most of them) and larger ovens with windows. I'm
> considering Viking, Wolf, Dacor, DCS, KitchenAid and the new JennAir
> with the double oven. I plan to see/test them all in a demo kitchen,
> but would like user opinions of strengths/weaknesses, repairs,
> cleanability, broiler quality, simmer quality, etc. Thanks for your
> feedback.
>