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Default wall ovens with open-door broiling

For the past ca 10 years, I have had a KitchenAid oven that only
allows you to broil with the door closed. I hate it. Thus, I am
checking out ovens that allow open-door broiling as I put together
specs for my new kitchen. It appears that most manufacturers now
state in their manuals, which I have been checking online, that
the door must be closed for broiling. That left Electrolux and
Frigidaire, which have open-door broiling (see below--this is
actually the same company). Miele and Dacor do not state whether
the door must be open or closed, so I have sent out queries.

So, a question for folks who have bought an electric wall oven in
RECENT years: are there other manufacturers that currently allow
open-door broiling? (So far, I have checked manuals from Bosch,
Dacor, Electrolux, Fagor [not much info], Fisher Paykel,
Frigidaire, GE, Jenn-Air, KitchenAid, Kupperbusch, Maytag, Miele,
Smeg, Thermador, Wolf, and Viking.)

For those of you who might have Electrolux, Frigidaire (etc., see
below), how has the reliability been? What I have seen online is
a bit scary. :-( But then one is more likely to post complaints,
I think. If one goes this route, does the name make any
difference when it comes to service?
*******

The Electrolux family also includes Euroflair, Gibson, Kelvinator,
and White-Westinghouse. I suspect that any ovens offered by these
companies would also be suitable as far as the broiler goes, but I
also suspect that they may have reliability issues.

Thanks for any illumination you can shed on this. It appears that
all of my kitchen appliances will revolve around the oven to some
degree (only meaning that I need to make sure they are all
available in the same color/finish), and I need to get the specs
for these things ASAP.
--
Jean B.
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Default wall ovens with open-door broiling

Jean B. wrote:
>

(snipperroonies)
>
> The Electrolux family also includes Euroflair, Gibson, Kelvinator,
> and White-Westinghouse.


Sorry I cannot answer your questions about ranges/ovens for open-door
broiling :/ I am not positive, but I believe Frigidaire is a subsidiary
of Electrolux (?). Explanation: I have a Frigidaire portable
dishwasher and its warranty is provided by "Electrolux Warranty
Corporation." Whether or not this applies to all Frigidaire appliances,
I don't know, but I hope this helps to know

Sky

--
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Ultimate Kitchen Rule -- Cook's Choice!!
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Default wall ovens with open-door broiling

Sky wrote:
> Jean B. wrote:
> (snipperroonies)
>> The Electrolux family also includes Euroflair, Gibson, Kelvinator,
>> and White-Westinghouse.

>
> Sorry I cannot answer your questions about ranges/ovens for open-door
> broiling :/ I am not positive, but I believe Frigidaire is a subsidiary
> of Electrolux (?). Explanation: I have a Frigidaire portable
> dishwasher and its warranty is provided by "Electrolux Warranty
> Corporation." Whether or not this applies to all Frigidaire appliances,
> I don't know, but I hope this helps to know
>
> Sky
>

My kitchen is almost all Frigidaire and they are all built by Electrolux.

--
Janet Wilder
Way-the-heck-south Texas
Spelling doesn't count. Cooking does.
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Default wall ovens with open-door broiling

Sky wrote:
> Jean B. wrote:
> (snipperroonies)
>> The Electrolux family also includes Euroflair, Gibson, Kelvinator,
>> and White-Westinghouse.

>
> Sorry I cannot answer your questions about ranges/ovens for open-door
> broiling :/ I am not positive, but I believe Frigidaire is a subsidiary
> of Electrolux (?). Explanation: I have a Frigidaire portable
> dishwasher and its warranty is provided by "Electrolux Warranty
> Corporation." Whether or not this applies to all Frigidaire appliances,
> I don't know, but I hope this helps to know
>
> Sky
>


Yes, I found that out. I did look at both Electrolux and
Frigidaire ovens today. Probably not comparable models, but there
were noticeable differences, which made the more-expensive
Electrolux more desirable. As you probably surmise from your
warranty, the name makes no difference as far as service goes, and
I gather there are not many authorized repair companies. I am
thinking I may very well, for the first time I can remember, get
an extended warranty if I go this route.

Thanks,

--
Jean B.
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Default wall ovens with open-door broiling

Janet Wilder wrote:
> Sky wrote:
>> Jean B. wrote:
>> (snipperroonies)
>>> The Electrolux family also includes Euroflair, Gibson, Kelvinator,
>>> and White-Westinghouse.

>>
>> Sorry I cannot answer your questions about ranges/ovens for open-door
>> broiling :/ I am not positive, but I believe Frigidaire is a subsidiary
>> of Electrolux (?). Explanation: I have a Frigidaire portable
>> dishwasher and its warranty is provided by "Electrolux Warranty
>> Corporation." Whether or not this applies to all Frigidaire appliances,
>> I don't know, but I hope this helps to know
>>
>> Sky
>>

> My kitchen is almost all Frigidaire and they are all built by Electrolux.
>

What vintage? Any problems? (I really hope you say "no"!)

--
Jean B.


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Default wall ovens with open-door broiling

Jean B. wrote:

(snips)
> I am thinking I may very well, for the first time I can remember,
> get an extended warranty if I go this route.


It might be a good idea to buy an extended warranty, but perhaps it
depends on its length of time after the initial one expires and its
cost??

I understand extended warranties are not usually worthwhile, but I did
buy one for this portable dishwasher (through 2014 at that)! After
17-plus years without any automatic dishwasher -- does Spouse count ....
;D -- I do not want to be without one. So, I submitted the warranty
card since the original owner had not. I lucked out big time and
purchased the DW from an advertisement in the local newspaper. It was
less than 2-years old and had an asking price that just could not be
beat that I didn't even bother to bargain as I'm wont to do in such
situations <g>.

Sky, who loves to bargain

P.S. Spouse has had to do the dishes every since, and I don't mind!
That automatic dishwasher is a joy!!!

--
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Ultimate Kitchen Rule -- Cook's Choice!!
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Default wall ovens with open-door broiling

Sky wrote:
> Jean B. wrote:
>
> (snips)
>> I am thinking I may very well, for the first time I can remember,
>> get an extended warranty if I go this route.

>
> It might be a good idea to buy an extended warranty, but perhaps it
> depends on its length of time after the initial one expires and its
> cost??
>
> I understand extended warranties are not usually worthwhile, but I did
> buy one for this portable dishwasher (through 2014 at that)! After
> 17-plus years without any automatic dishwasher -- does Spouse count ....
> ;D -- I do not want to be without one. So, I submitted the warranty
> card since the original owner had not. I lucked out big time and
> purchased the DW from an advertisement in the local newspaper. It was
> less than 2-years old and had an asking price that just could not be
> beat that I didn't even bother to bargain as I'm wont to do in such
> situations <g>.
>
> Sky, who loves to bargain
>
> P.S. Spouse has had to do the dishes every since, and I don't mind!
> That automatic dishwasher is a joy!!!
>

Yup. I have never had an extended warranty on anything. Usually
the normal warranty is enough to demonstrate whether one has a
lemon or not. What I have read about Electrolux (and Frigidaire
etc.) products makes me nervous though.

The kitchen designer is going to order the appliances, because she
said she can get them for us at 8 percent above cost, so that it
very good.

--
Jean B.
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Default wall ovens with open-door broiling

On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 09:57:08 -0500, "Jean B." > wrote:

>Sky wrote:
>> Jean B. wrote:
>>
>> (snips)
>>> I am thinking I may very well, for the first time I can remember,
>>> get an extended warranty if I go this route.

>>
>> It might be a good idea to buy an extended warranty, but perhaps it
>> depends on its length of time after the initial one expires and its
>> cost??
>>
>> I understand extended warranties are not usually worthwhile, but I did
>> buy one for this portable dishwasher (through 2014 at that)! After
>> 17-plus years without any automatic dishwasher -- does Spouse count ....
>> ;D -- I do not want to be without one. So, I submitted the warranty
>> card since the original owner had not. I lucked out big time and
>> purchased the DW from an advertisement in the local newspaper. It was
>> less than 2-years old and had an asking price that just could not be
>> beat that I didn't even bother to bargain as I'm wont to do in such
>> situations <g>.
>>
>> Sky, who loves to bargain
>>
>> P.S. Spouse has had to do the dishes every since, and I don't mind!
>> That automatic dishwasher is a joy!!!
>>

>Yup. I have never had an extended warranty on anything. Usually
>the normal warranty is enough to demonstrate whether one has a
>lemon or not. What I have read about Electrolux (and Frigidaire
>etc.) products makes me nervous though.


Check out the Electrolux products you are looking at. After we bought
an Electrolux dishwasher ($1500) and decided that it really did not
get the dishes clean my husband got on the Internet and discovered
that there were lots of people who didn't think the things worked
well. Wish we had done it before we purchased.
>
>The kitchen designer is going to order the appliances, because she
>said she can get them for us at 8 percent above cost, so that it
>very good.


As I said before, find out where you can get service for them. I
personally consider that to be as important as the price.
--
Susan N.

"Moral indignation is in most cases two percent moral,
48 percent indignation, and 50 percent envy."
Vittorio De Sica, Italian movie director (1901-1974)
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Default wall ovens with open-door broiling

The Cook wrote:
> On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 09:57:08 -0500, "Jean B." > wrote:
>
>> Sky wrote:
>>> Jean B. wrote:
>>>
>>> (snips)
>>>> I am thinking I may very well, for the first time I can remember,
>>>> get an extended warranty if I go this route.
>>> It might be a good idea to buy an extended warranty, but perhaps it
>>> depends on its length of time after the initial one expires and its
>>> cost??
>>>
>>> I understand extended warranties are not usually worthwhile, but I did
>>> buy one for this portable dishwasher (through 2014 at that)! After
>>> 17-plus years without any automatic dishwasher -- does Spouse count ....
>>> ;D -- I do not want to be without one. So, I submitted the warranty
>>> card since the original owner had not. I lucked out big time and
>>> purchased the DW from an advertisement in the local newspaper. It was
>>> less than 2-years old and had an asking price that just could not be
>>> beat that I didn't even bother to bargain as I'm wont to do in such
>>> situations <g>.
>>>
>>> Sky, who loves to bargain
>>>
>>> P.S. Spouse has had to do the dishes every since, and I don't mind!
>>> That automatic dishwasher is a joy!!!
>>>

>> Yup. I have never had an extended warranty on anything. Usually
>> the normal warranty is enough to demonstrate whether one has a
>> lemon or not. What I have read about Electrolux (and Frigidaire
>> etc.) products makes me nervous though.

>
> Check out the Electrolux products you are looking at. After we bought
> an Electrolux dishwasher ($1500) and decided that it really did not
> get the dishes clean my husband got on the Internet and discovered
> that there were lots of people who didn't think the things worked
> well. Wish we had done it before we purchased.
>> The kitchen designer is going to order the appliances, because she
>> said she can get them for us at 8 percent above cost, so that it
>> very good.

>
> As I said before, find out where you can get service for them. I
> personally consider that to be as important as the price.


That's the problem, Susan. BUT I am kind-of stuck. I don't know
why other manufacturers have switched to closed-door broiling. I
was so surprised that my KA had that, and now it is virtually
impossible to find anything else. I just can't stand it. I hope
Miele or Dacor have a positive reply for me. Otherwise, I have
gone through manuals for every company I can think of.

--
Jean B.
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Default wall ovens with open-door broiling

Jean B. wrote:
> For the past ca 10 years, I have had a KitchenAid oven that only allows
> you to broil with the door closed. I hate it. Thus, I am checking out
> ovens that allow open-door broiling as I put together specs for my new
> kitchen.


Just as an aside - why do you want open door broiling? I recently redid
my kitchen and put in Dacor ovens which I specifically confirmed allowed
closed door. All my previous ovens required open door broiling
(including the oven in the Kitchenaid range that I replaced) and I hated
it - it filled the house with smoke, splattered grease, and dumped huge
amounts of heat into the kitchen (and living in south Florida, that was
not a plus). Additionally, (according to appliance people) it led to
overheating of the control panel of my drop-in stove (which had the
controls in the front right above the oven door).

> It appears that most manufacturers now state in their manuals,
> which I have been checking online, that the door must be closed for
> broiling. That left Electrolux and Frigidaire, which have open-door
> broiling (see below--this is actually the same company). Miele and
> Dacor do not state whether the door must be open or closed, so I have
> sent out queries.


As above, I think they require closed door to avoid overheating the
controls - more of an issue now when almost all units have electronic
controls that are more heat sensitive.

Also as above, at least the Dacor Renaissance ovens require closed door
- I would assume all of their current models do.

> The Electrolux family also includes Euroflair, Gibson, Kelvinator, and
> White-Westinghouse. I suspect that any ovens offered by these companies
> would also be suitable as far as the broiler goes, but I also suspect
> that they may have reliability issues.


Not counting the Asian brands (LG, Daewoo, Haier, etc.), there are only
a few companies left that make most of the mass market to mid-range
appliances in/for the US, each of which has numerous brands: the
Electrolux family you outline above, the Whirlpool family (which
includes Whirlpool, Kitchenaid, Maytag, Magic Chef, Jenn-Air, Roper, and
Amana), GE (which includes GE, GE Profile, GE Cafe, GE Monogram, and
Hotpoint) - not sure if any others are left. Not all the brands in each
of these families share things, as they were mostly built up by buying
independent companies and while over time they are more consolidated,
most still have some level of design and manufacturing distinctions.

Also, each has a hierarchy of target markets - for Whirlpool, I think
Magic Chef and Roper are towards the bottom, Whirlpool is in the middle,
Kitchenaid was the former top of the line, but was at least partly
passed (I think) by Jenn-Air when Whirlpool bought Maytag a few years
ago. (That was recent enough that there is still a lot of distinction
between Jenn-Air and Whirlpool/Kitchenaid, which are much closer).

I believe Electrolux is the high end of that family, with
White-Westinghouse lower down and Frigidaire somewhere in the middle.
So just because they are the same family, you shouldn't automatically
assume similar design features or reliability - as you go up the lines,
you pay more, and (along with the supposed better image) part of what
you are paying for are fancier features and better reliability. Note
that this doesn't always work out :-)...


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Default wall ovens with open-door broiling

On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 23:35:45 -0500, Ted Goldblatt
> wrote:

>Jean B. wrote:
>> For the past ca 10 years, I have had a KitchenAid oven that only allows
>> you to broil with the door closed. I hate it. Thus, I am checking out
>> ovens that allow open-door broiling as I put together specs for my new
>> kitchen.

>
>Just as an aside - why do you want open door broiling? I recently redid
>my kitchen and put in Dacor ovens which I specifically confirmed allowed
>closed door. All my previous ovens required open door broiling
>(including the oven in the Kitchenaid range that I replaced) and I hated
>it - it filled the house with smoke, splattered grease, and dumped huge
>amounts of heat into the kitchen (and living in south Florida, that was
>not a plus). Additionally, (according to appliance people) it led to
>overheating of the control panel of my drop-in stove (which had the
>controls in the front right above the oven door).



Good point, but how well does the food come out in a closed versus
open oven? Closed, the heat can turn of and stop the broiling, thus
the open door. I don't have any experience with that as ours can be
done open and we do so.
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On Mon, 25 Jan 2010 05:55:17 -0500, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

>Good point, but how well does the food come out in a closed versus
>open oven? Closed, the heat can turn of and stop the broiling, thus
>the open door. ...


That and the question of ventilation and the potential effect of
increased moisture with the closed door.

Plus I would think the oven would require additional insulation and
perhaps be physically larger to handle the heat build-up.

-- Larry
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Default wall ovens with open-door broiling

Ted Goldblatt wrote:
> Just as an aside - why do you want open door broiling? I recently redid
> my kitchen and put in Dacor ovens which I specifically confirmed allowed
> closed door. All my previous ovens required open door broiling
> (including the oven in the Kitchenaid range that I replaced) and I hated
> it - it filled the house with smoke, splattered grease, and dumped huge
> amounts of heat into the kitchen (and living in south Florida, that was
> not a plus). Additionally, (according to appliance people) it led to
> overheating of the control panel of my drop-in stove (which had the
> controls in the front right above the oven door).


Interesting. (And thanks for the answer re Dacor.) I suppose, to
some degree, it is a matter of being used to that. But also when
the door is closed, meat etc. seems to simmer/bake instead of
broiling. I used to broil things quite a lot and have never had
good results here with the door closed.

Maybe some of this is (shameful confession) related to the fact
that I have never used a grill. If I did, probably a lot of what
I want to use a broiler for would be done better on a grill.
>
>> It appears that most manufacturers now state in their manuals, which I
>> have been checking online, that the door must be closed for broiling.
>> That left Electrolux and Frigidaire, which have open-door broiling
>> (see below--this is actually the same company). Miele and Dacor do
>> not state whether the door must be open or closed, so I have sent out
>> queries.

>
> As above, I think they require closed door to avoid overheating the
> controls - more of an issue now when almost all units have electronic
> controls that are more heat sensitive.


That is an interesting thought and something I had not considered.
>
> Also as above, at least the Dacor Renaissance ovens require closed door
> - I would assume all of their current models do.


Now my only question is about Miele then.
>
>> The Electrolux family also includes Euroflair, Gibson, Kelvinator, and
>> White-Westinghouse. I suspect that any ovens offered by these
>> companies would also be suitable as far as the broiler goes, but I
>> also suspect that they may have reliability issues.

>
> Not counting the Asian brands (LG, Daewoo, Haier, etc.), there are only
> a few companies left that make most of the mass market to mid-range
> appliances in/for the US, each of which has numerous brands: the
> Electrolux family you outline above, the Whirlpool family (which
> includes Whirlpool, Kitchenaid, Maytag, Magic Chef, Jenn-Air, Roper, and
> Amana), GE (which includes GE, GE Profile, GE Cafe, GE Monogram, and
> Hotpoint) - not sure if any others are left. Not all the brands in each
> of these families share things, as they were mostly built up by buying
> independent companies and while over time they are more consolidated,
> most still have some level of design and manufacturing distinctions.


Thanks for that summary of brands and their relationships. I had
only gotten to the mere surface of this issue.
>
> Also, each has a hierarchy of target markets - for Whirlpool, I think
> Magic Chef and Roper are towards the bottom, Whirlpool is in the middle,
> Kitchenaid was the former top of the line, but was at least partly
> passed (I think) by Jenn-Air when Whirlpool bought Maytag a few years
> ago. (That was recent enough that there is still a lot of distinction
> between Jenn-Air and Whirlpool/Kitchenaid, which are much closer).
>
> I believe Electrolux is the high end of that family, with
> White-Westinghouse lower down and Frigidaire somewhere in the middle. So
> just because they are the same family, you shouldn't automatically
> assume similar design features or reliability - as you go up the lines,
> you pay more, and (along with the supposed better image) part of what
> you are paying for are fancier features and better reliability. Note
> that this doesn't always work out :-)...


That's for sure.

You have given me food for thought, especially re the relatively
sensitive control panel and heat. Thank you!


--
Jean B.
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Default wall ovens with open-door broiling

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 23:35:45 -0500, Ted Goldblatt
> > wrote:
>
>> Jean B. wrote:
>>> For the past ca 10 years, I have had a KitchenAid oven that only allows
>>> you to broil with the door closed. I hate it. Thus, I am checking out
>>> ovens that allow open-door broiling as I put together specs for my new
>>> kitchen.

>> Just as an aside - why do you want open door broiling? I recently redid
>> my kitchen and put in Dacor ovens which I specifically confirmed allowed
>> closed door. All my previous ovens required open door broiling
>> (including the oven in the Kitchenaid range that I replaced) and I hated
>> it - it filled the house with smoke, splattered grease, and dumped huge
>> amounts of heat into the kitchen (and living in south Florida, that was
>> not a plus). Additionally, (according to appliance people) it led to
>> overheating of the control panel of my drop-in stove (which had the
>> controls in the front right above the oven door).

>
>
> Good point, but how well does the food come out in a closed versus
> open oven? Closed, the heat can turn of and stop the broiling, thus
> the open door. I don't have any experience with that as ours can be
> done open and we do so.


So, you partly understand my problem. The heat does indeed turn
off, and that has a very deleterious effect on what one is broiling.

--
Jean B.
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Default wall ovens with open-door broiling

On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 22:20:41 -0500, "Jean B." > wrote:

>The Cook wrote:
>> On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 09:57:08 -0500, "Jean B." > wrote:
>>
>>> Sky wrote:
>>>> Jean B. wrote:
>>>>
>>>> (snips)
>>>>> I am thinking I may very well, for the first time I can remember,
>>>>> get an extended warranty if I go this route.
>>>> It might be a good idea to buy an extended warranty, but perhaps it
>>>> depends on its length of time after the initial one expires and its
>>>> cost??
>>>>
>>>> I understand extended warranties are not usually worthwhile, but I did
>>>> buy one for this portable dishwasher (through 2014 at that)! After
>>>> 17-plus years without any automatic dishwasher -- does Spouse count ....
>>>> ;D -- I do not want to be without one. So, I submitted the warranty
>>>> card since the original owner had not. I lucked out big time and
>>>> purchased the DW from an advertisement in the local newspaper. It was
>>>> less than 2-years old and had an asking price that just could not be
>>>> beat that I didn't even bother to bargain as I'm wont to do in such
>>>> situations <g>.
>>>>
>>>> Sky, who loves to bargain
>>>>
>>>> P.S. Spouse has had to do the dishes every since, and I don't mind!
>>>> That automatic dishwasher is a joy!!!
>>>>
>>> Yup. I have never had an extended warranty on anything. Usually
>>> the normal warranty is enough to demonstrate whether one has a
>>> lemon or not. What I have read about Electrolux (and Frigidaire
>>> etc.) products makes me nervous though.

>>
>> Check out the Electrolux products you are looking at. After we bought
>> an Electrolux dishwasher ($1500) and decided that it really did not
>> get the dishes clean my husband got on the Internet and discovered
>> that there were lots of people who didn't think the things worked
>> well. Wish we had done it before we purchased.
>>> The kitchen designer is going to order the appliances, because she
>>> said she can get them for us at 8 percent above cost, so that it
>>> very good.

>>
>> As I said before, find out where you can get service for them. I
>> personally consider that to be as important as the price.

>
>That's the problem, Susan. BUT I am kind-of stuck. I don't know
>why other manufacturers have switched to closed-door broiling. I
>was so surprised that my KA had that, and now it is virtually
>impossible to find anything else. I just can't stand it. I hope
>Miele or Dacor have a positive reply for me. Otherwise, I have
>gone through manuals for every company I can think of.



It's not going to help you with a gas stove but my GE Ceramic top
range says to leave the door ajar for broiling.
--
Susan N.

"Moral indignation is in most cases two percent moral,
48 percent indignation, and 50 percent envy."
Vittorio De Sica, Italian movie director (1901-1974)
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Default wall ovens with open-door broiling

The Cook wrote:
> On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 22:20:41 -0500, "Jean B." > wrote:
>
>> The Cook wrote:
>>> On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 09:57:08 -0500, "Jean B." > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Sky wrote:
>>>>> Jean B. wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> (snips)
>>>>>> I am thinking I may very well, for the first time I can remember,
>>>>>> get an extended warranty if I go this route.
>>>>> It might be a good idea to buy an extended warranty, but perhaps it
>>>>> depends on its length of time after the initial one expires and its
>>>>> cost??
>>>>>
>>>>> I understand extended warranties are not usually worthwhile, but I did
>>>>> buy one for this portable dishwasher (through 2014 at that)! After
>>>>> 17-plus years without any automatic dishwasher -- does Spouse count ....
>>>>> ;D -- I do not want to be without one. So, I submitted the warranty
>>>>> card since the original owner had not. I lucked out big time and
>>>>> purchased the DW from an advertisement in the local newspaper. It was
>>>>> less than 2-years old and had an asking price that just could not be
>>>>> beat that I didn't even bother to bargain as I'm wont to do in such
>>>>> situations <g>.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sky, who loves to bargain
>>>>>
>>>>> P.S. Spouse has had to do the dishes every since, and I don't mind!
>>>>> That automatic dishwasher is a joy!!!
>>>>>
>>>> Yup. I have never had an extended warranty on anything. Usually
>>>> the normal warranty is enough to demonstrate whether one has a
>>>> lemon or not. What I have read about Electrolux (and Frigidaire
>>>> etc.) products makes me nervous though.
>>> Check out the Electrolux products you are looking at. After we bought
>>> an Electrolux dishwasher ($1500) and decided that it really did not
>>> get the dishes clean my husband got on the Internet and discovered
>>> that there were lots of people who didn't think the things worked
>>> well. Wish we had done it before we purchased.
>>>> The kitchen designer is going to order the appliances, because she
>>>> said she can get them for us at 8 percent above cost, so that it
>>>> very good.
>>> As I said before, find out where you can get service for them. I
>>> personally consider that to be as important as the price.

>> That's the problem, Susan. BUT I am kind-of stuck. I don't know
>> why other manufacturers have switched to closed-door broiling. I
>> was so surprised that my KA had that, and now it is virtually
>> impossible to find anything else. I just can't stand it. I hope
>> Miele or Dacor have a positive reply for me. Otherwise, I have
>> gone through manuals for every company I can think of.

>
>
> It's not going to help you with a gas stove but my GE Ceramic top
> range says to leave the door ajar for broiling.



I heard from Miele, and they have closed-door broiling too. So,
it seems like I am stuck with and Electrolux (or related) oven. I
just hope it isn't a total lemon.

--
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"Ted Goldblatt" > wrote in message
...
> Jean B. wrote:
>> For the past ca 10 years, I have had a KitchenAid oven that only allows
>> you to broil with the door closed. I hate it. Thus, I am checking out
>> ovens that allow open-door broiling as I put together specs for my new
>> kitchen.

>
> Just as an aside - why do you want open door broiling? I recently redid
> my kitchen and put in Dacor ovens which I specifically confirmed allowed
> closed door. All my previous ovens required open door broiling (including
> the oven in the Kitchenaid range that I replaced) and I hated it - it
> filled the house with smoke, splattered grease, and dumped huge amounts of
> heat into the kitchen (and living in south Florida, that was not a plus).
> Additionally, (according to appliance people) it led to overheating of the
> control panel of my drop-in stove (which had the controls in the front
> right above the oven door).
>
>snipped lower portion of message<
>
>

When you broil a steak with the door closed you're essentially broiling in
an oven with too much heat on the undersurface of the meat. This is also
true when you grill a steak on a gas grill with the lid closed. There's too
much heat on the top of the meat. This makes it pretty hard to grill or
broil a char-rare steak.

Kent






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Kent wrote:
> "Ted Goldblatt" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Jean B. wrote:
>>> For the past ca 10 years, I have had a KitchenAid oven that only allows
>>> you to broil with the door closed. I hate it. Thus, I am checking out
>>> ovens that allow open-door broiling as I put together specs for my new
>>> kitchen.

>> Just as an aside - why do you want open door broiling? I recently redid
>> my kitchen and put in Dacor ovens which I specifically confirmed allowed
>> closed door. All my previous ovens required open door broiling (including
>> the oven in the Kitchenaid range that I replaced) and I hated it - it
>> filled the house with smoke, splattered grease, and dumped huge amounts of
>> heat into the kitchen (and living in south Florida, that was not a plus).
>> Additionally, (according to appliance people) it led to overheating of the
>> control panel of my drop-in stove (which had the controls in the front
>> right above the oven door).
>>
>> snipped lower portion of message<
>>
>>

> When you broil a steak with the door closed you're essentially broiling in
> an oven with too much heat on the undersurface of the meat. This is also
> true when you grill a steak on a gas grill with the lid closed. There's too
> much heat on the top of the meat. This makes it pretty hard to grill or
> broil a char-rare steak.
>
> Kent
>

The upshot is that I will be getting an Electrolux, for better or
for worse. I hope it isn't a total lemon.

--
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Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 23:35:45 -0500, Ted Goldblatt
> > wrote:
>
>> Jean B. wrote:
>>> For the past ca 10 years, I have had a KitchenAid oven that only allows
>>> you to broil with the door closed. I hate it. Thus, I am checking out
>>> ovens that allow open-door broiling as I put together specs for my new
>>> kitchen.

>> Just as an aside - why do you want open door broiling? I recently redid
>> my kitchen and put in Dacor ovens which I specifically confirmed allowed
>> closed door. All my previous ovens required open door broiling
>> (including the oven in the Kitchenaid range that I replaced) and I hated
>> it - it filled the house with smoke, splattered grease, and dumped huge
>> amounts of heat into the kitchen (and living in south Florida, that was
>> not a plus). Additionally, (according to appliance people) it led to
>> overheating of the control panel of my drop-in stove (which had the
>> controls in the front right above the oven door).

>
>
> Good point, but how well does the food come out in a closed versus
> open oven? Closed, the heat can turn of and stop the broiling, thus
> the open door. I don't have any experience with that as ours can be
> done open and we do so.


That could be an issue - I don't know if my new ovens cycle on broil or
not. I generally use the broiler only briefly to brown up the tops of
things - if I'm doing the moral equivalent of grilling, I do it outside
on the grill...

Next time I use the broiler I will check this and report back.


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Ted Goldblatt wrote:
> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 23:35:45 -0500, Ted Goldblatt
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> Jean B. wrote:
>>>> For the past ca 10 years, I have had a KitchenAid oven that only
>>>> allows you to broil with the door closed. I hate it. Thus, I am
>>>> checking out ovens that allow open-door broiling as I put together
>>>> specs for my new kitchen.
>>> Just as an aside - why do you want open door broiling? I recently
>>> redid my kitchen and put in Dacor ovens which I specifically
>>> confirmed allowed closed door. All my previous ovens required open
>>> door broiling (including the oven in the Kitchenaid range that I
>>> replaced) and I hated it - it filled the house with smoke, splattered
>>> grease, and dumped huge amounts of heat into the kitchen (and living
>>> in south Florida, that was not a plus). Additionally, (according to
>>> appliance people) it led to overheating of the control panel of my
>>> drop-in stove (which had the controls in the front right above the
>>> oven door).

>>
>>
>> Good point, but how well does the food come out in a closed versus
>> open oven? Closed, the heat can turn of and stop the broiling, thus
>> the open door. I don't have any experience with that as ours can be
>> done open and we do so.

>
> That could be an issue - I don't know if my new ovens cycle on broil or
> not. I generally use the broiler only briefly to brown up the tops of
> things - if I'm doing the moral equivalent of grilling, I do it outside
> on the grill...
>
> Next time I use the broiler I will check this and report back.


Yes, well, I (the OP) haven't progressed to grilling. Not sure
why. Open-door broiling is (for me) the next best thing.

--
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Jean B. wrote:
> Ted Goldblatt wrote:
>> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>> On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 23:35:45 -0500, Ted Goldblatt
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Jean B. wrote:
>>>>> For the past ca 10 years, I have had a KitchenAid oven that only
>>>>> allows you to broil with the door closed. I hate it. Thus, I am
>>>>> checking out ovens that allow open-door broiling as I put together
>>>>> specs for my new kitchen.
>>>> Just as an aside - why do you want open door broiling? I recently
>>>> redid my kitchen and put in Dacor ovens which I specifically
>>>> confirmed allowed closed door. All my previous ovens required open
>>>> door broiling (including the oven in the Kitchenaid range that I
>>>> replaced) and I hated it - it filled the house with smoke,
>>>> splattered grease, and dumped huge amounts of heat into the kitchen
>>>> (and living in south Florida, that was not a plus). Additionally,
>>>> (according to appliance people) it led to overheating of the control
>>>> panel of my drop-in stove (which had the controls in the front right
>>>> above the oven door).
>>>
>>>
>>> Good point, but how well does the food come out in a closed versus
>>> open oven? Closed, the heat can turn of and stop the broiling, thus
>>> the open door. I don't have any experience with that as ours can be
>>> done open and we do so.

>>
>> That could be an issue - I don't know if my new ovens cycle on broil
>> or not. I generally use the broiler only briefly to brown up the tops
>> of things - if I'm doing the moral equivalent of grilling, I do it
>> outside on the grill...
>>
>> Next time I use the broiler I will check this and report back.

>
> Yes, well, I (the OP) haven't progressed to grilling. Not sure why.
> Open-door broiling is (for me) the next best thing.


Like I said, I'm in south Florida. The weather here is OK for outdoor
cooking all year, and keeping the heat (and smoke) outside helps with
the air conditioning power bills (we've run AC within the last week
so...), so real grilling has advantages here besides just the straight
up cooking ones...

That said, I occasionally _do_ use the broiler to actually broil, but
that is almost always for seafood, and given how quickly that goes, the
concerns raised elsewhere in the thread about cycling and heat from the
wrong side don't appear to the problems for me...
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Ted Goldblatt wrote:
> Jean B. wrote:
>> Ted Goldblatt wrote:
>>> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 23:35:45 -0500, Ted Goldblatt
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Jean B. wrote:
>>>>>> For the past ca 10 years, I have had a KitchenAid oven that only
>>>>>> allows you to broil with the door closed. I hate it. Thus, I am
>>>>>> checking out ovens that allow open-door broiling as I put together
>>>>>> specs for my new kitchen.
>>>>> Just as an aside - why do you want open door broiling? I recently
>>>>> redid my kitchen and put in Dacor ovens which I specifically
>>>>> confirmed allowed closed door. All my previous ovens required open
>>>>> door broiling (including the oven in the Kitchenaid range that I
>>>>> replaced) and I hated it - it filled the house with smoke,
>>>>> splattered grease, and dumped huge amounts of heat into the kitchen
>>>>> (and living in south Florida, that was not a plus). Additionally,
>>>>> (according to appliance people) it led to overheating of the
>>>>> control panel of my drop-in stove (which had the controls in the
>>>>> front right above the oven door).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Good point, but how well does the food come out in a closed versus
>>>> open oven? Closed, the heat can turn of and stop the broiling, thus
>>>> the open door. I don't have any experience with that as ours can be
>>>> done open and we do so.
>>>
>>> That could be an issue - I don't know if my new ovens cycle on broil
>>> or not. I generally use the broiler only briefly to brown up the
>>> tops of things - if I'm doing the moral equivalent of grilling, I do
>>> it outside on the grill...
>>>
>>> Next time I use the broiler I will check this and report back.

>>
>> Yes, well, I (the OP) haven't progressed to grilling. Not sure why.
>> Open-door broiling is (for me) the next best thing.

>
> Like I said, I'm in south Florida. The weather here is OK for outdoor
> cooking all year, and keeping the heat (and smoke) outside helps with
> the air conditioning power bills (we've run AC within the last week
> so...), so real grilling has advantages here besides just the straight
> up cooking ones...
>
> That said, I occasionally _do_ use the broiler to actually broil, but
> that is almost always for seafood, and given how quickly that goes, the
> concerns raised elsewhere in the thread about cycling and heat from the
> wrong side don't appear to the problems for me...


I am in New England--Massachusetts. But weather doesn't deter
everyone from grilling. Some do all year round.

Interestingly, Dacor got back to me (although my question re Dacor
ovens had been answered), and they actually mentioned the control
panel. So that looks like some of the rationale for the way
broiling is done now. I wonder why the Electrolux family still
broils with the door open, and whether there is an effect on the
control panel? Come to think of it, one way around this would
have been to get a vintage range/oven.

--
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Jean B. wrote:
> Kent wrote:
>> "Ted Goldblatt" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Jean B. wrote:
>>>> For the past ca 10 years, I have had a KitchenAid oven that only
>>>> allows you to broil with the door closed. I hate it. Thus, I am
>>>> checking out ovens that allow open-door broiling as I put together
>>>> specs for my new kitchen.
>>> Just as an aside - why do you want open door broiling? I recently
>>> redid my kitchen and put in Dacor ovens which I specifically
>>> confirmed allowed closed door. All my previous ovens required open
>>> door broiling (including the oven in the Kitchenaid range that I
>>> replaced) and I hated it - it filled the house with smoke, splattered
>>> grease, and dumped huge amounts of heat into the kitchen (and living
>>> in south Florida, that was not a plus). Additionally, (according to
>>> appliance people) it led to overheating of the control panel of my
>>> drop-in stove (which had the controls in the front right above the
>>> oven door).
>>>
>>> snipped lower portion of message<
>>>
>>>

>> When you broil a steak with the door closed you're essentially
>> broiling in an oven with too much heat on the undersurface of the
>> meat. This is also true when you grill a steak on a gas grill with the
>> lid closed. There's too much heat on the top of the meat. This makes
>> it pretty hard to grill or broil a char-rare steak.
>>
>> Kent
>>

> The upshot is that I will be getting an Electrolux, for better or for
> worse. I hope it isn't a total lemon.
>

[inserting this just in case someone else does a search on this topic]

The past weekend, I went to a Home Show in Boston. There was an
Electrolux display there. I got into a lengthy discussion with
the Electrolux representative about this subject. He claimed that
broiling was supposed to be done with the door closed. I said I
had had read every single pdf file for various makes of oven, and
that the Electrolux booklet said broiling should be done with the
door ajar.

After that, I went back home and reread the section on broiling.
Under Broiling Tips, it says something like "for optimal results,
the door should be slightly open." To me, this implies that
broiling CAN be done with the door closed, that it is preferred
that it be done with the door slightly open, and that the oven
operates with the door open.

--
Jean B.
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