Cooking Equipment (rec.food.equipment) Discussion of food-related equipment. Includes items used in food preparation and storage, including major and minor appliances, gadgets and utensils, infrastructure, and food- and recipe-related software.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.equipment
Sky Sky is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,348
Default using the 'clean' feature for an oven

Okay, I very rarely use my range oven, but it does need cleaning. Since
spouse and I tend to cook for one most of the time, our small
toaster-oven frequently gets used instead, often mutliple times in a
single day.

My GE natural gas range is relatively new; it was purchased some six
years ago or so. However, the "cleaning" feature for the oven has never
been used. Other than RTFM (which is a given <g>), what other
peculiarities should I know when 'cleaning' the oven? For instance,
I've heard it's wise to remove the oven shelves/racks before 'cleaning,'
so I intend to do that. Anything else? Wipe down the interior first,
perhaps? I really have no clue.

Sky, who has a few fire extinguishers around for just-in-case!

P.S. Don't ask about the time when a whole beef tenderloin roast was
held captive in the electric oven one holiday many years ago when the
oven was accidentally set to 'clean' -- and it locked(!!!), with said
roast inside the oven! The electric breaker for the oven was
subsequently turned off to circumvent the clean cycle. The roast was
eventually rescued - whew!

--
Ultra Ultimate Kitchen Rule - Use the Timer!
Ultimate Kitchen Rule -- Cook's Choice
  #2 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.equipment
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 286
Default using the 'clean' feature for an oven

Sky wrote:
> Okay, I very rarely use my range oven, but it does need cleaning. Since
> spouse and I tend to cook for one most of the time, our small
> toaster-oven frequently gets used instead, often mutliple times in a
> single day.
>
> My GE natural gas range is relatively new; it was purchased some six
> years ago or so. However, the "cleaning" feature for the oven has never
> been used. Other than RTFM (which is a given <g>), what other
> peculiarities should I know when 'cleaning' the oven? For instance,
> I've heard it's wise to remove the oven shelves/racks before 'cleaning,'
> so I intend to do that. Anything else? Wipe down the interior first,
> perhaps? I really have no clue.
>
> Sky, who has a few fire extinguishers around for just-in-case!
>
> P.S. Don't ask about the time when a whole beef tenderloin roast was
> held captive in the electric oven one holiday many years ago when the
> oven was accidentally set to 'clean' -- and it locked(!!!), with said
> roast inside the oven! The electric breaker for the oven was
> subsequently turned off to circumvent the clean cycle. The roast was
> eventually rescued - whew!
>


In general, wipe up any grease that can be removed without scrubbing.
Soak and remove any accumulation of sugars (from pies, etc) and, if you
have a smoke detector close to your kitchen, you may or may not want to
remove the battery. I typically take the battery out since I don't like
false positives from that device.

Matthew

--
"All you need to start an asylum is an empty room and the right kind of
people". Alexander Bullock ("My Man Godfrey" 1936):
  #3 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.equipment
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,234
Default using the 'clean' feature for an oven

On Sat 29 Nov 2008 04:15:38p, Sky told us...

> Okay, I very rarely use my range oven, but it does need cleaning. Since
> spouse and I tend to cook for one most of the time, our small
> toaster-oven frequently gets used instead, often mutliple times in a
> single day.
>
> My GE natural gas range is relatively new; it was purchased some six
> years ago or so. However, the "cleaning" feature for the oven has never
> been used. Other than RTFM (which is a given <g>), what other
> peculiarities should I know when 'cleaning' the oven? For instance,
> I've heard it's wise to remove the oven shelves/racks before 'cleaning,'
> so I intend to do that. Anything else? Wipe down the interior first,
> perhaps? I really have no clue.


One thing to remember is adequate ventilation. If you have a vent hood or
similar underneath an over the range m/w, be sure it’s turned on. You may
want to open a window a bit as well.

I’ve never used a self-clean cycle on a gas range, but I can’t imagine
their operation is too different. I never wipe mine down, but I do remove
any obvious bits of things that might be on the bottom or sides.

If there are optional lengths of time on the cleaning cycle, I generally
choose the longest.

> Sky, who has a few fire extinguishers around for just-in-case!
>
> P.S. Don't ask about the time when a whole beef tenderloin roast was
> held captive in the electric oven one holiday many years ago when the
> oven was accidentally set to 'clean' -- and it locked(!!!), with said
> roast inside the oven! The electric breaker for the oven was
> subsequently turned off to circumvent the clean cycle. The roast was
> eventually rescued - whew!
>




--
Wayne Boatwright
(correct the spelling of "geemail" to reply)
************************************************** **********************
Date: Saturday, 11(XI)/29(XXIX)/08(MMVIII)
************************************************** **********************
Countdown till Christmas Day
3wks 4dys 6hrs 9mins
************************************************** **********************
Time travel is easy; I just haven't gotten 'Fast Forward' and
'Reverse' to work yet.
************************************************** **********************
  #4 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.equipment
Sky Sky is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,348
Default using the 'clean' feature for an oven

Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>
> On Sat 29 Nov 2008 04:15:38p, Sky told us...
>
> > Okay, I very rarely use my range oven, but it does need cleaning. Since
> > spouse and I tend to cook for one most of the time, our small
> > toaster-oven frequently gets used instead, often mutliple times in a
> > single day.
> >
> > My GE natural gas range is relatively new; it was purchased some six
> > years ago or so. However, the "cleaning" feature for the oven has never
> > been used. Other than RTFM (which is a given <g>), what other
> > peculiarities should I know when 'cleaning' the oven? For instance,
> > I've heard it's wise to remove the oven shelves/racks before 'cleaning,'
> > so I intend to do that. Anything else? Wipe down the interior first,
> > perhaps? I really have no clue.

>
> One thing to remember is adequate ventilation. If you have a vent hood or
> similar underneath an over the range m/w, be sure it’s turned on. You may
> want to open a window a bit as well.
>
> I’ve never used a self-clean cycle on a gas range, but I can’t imagine
> their operation is too different. I never wipe mine down, but I do remove
> any obvious bits of things that might be on the bottom or sides.
>
> If there are optional lengths of time on the cleaning cycle, I generally
> choose the longest.
>
> Wayne Boatwright


Very helpful suggestions! And that's the term I meant to use --
"self-clean"! Basically, I think it means both heating elements to the
oven turn on (baking & broiling) so the interior gets baked to a high
enough degree where the contents are rendered to ash - something like
that. Thanks

Sky

--
Ultra Ultimate Kitchen Rule - Use the Timer!
Ultimate Kitchen Rule -- Cook's Choice
  #5 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.equipment
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12,851
Default using the 'clean' feature for an oven


"Sky" > wrote in message
> My GE natural gas range is relatively new; it was purchased some six
> years ago or so. However, the "cleaning" feature for the oven has never
> been used. Other than RTFM (which is a given <g>), what other
> peculiarities should I know when 'cleaning' the oven? For instance,
> I've heard it's wise to remove the oven shelves/racks before 'cleaning,'
> so I intend to do that. Anything else? Wipe down the interior first,
> perhaps? I really have no clue.


If you leave the racks in, they will get a bit dull and won't slide as
smooth as they do now. Soak up any big spills. Anything in the oven will
turn to soot so why leave big gobs to turn to smoke?

The vent will be hotter than it normally would get if you just roasted in
the oven so don't block it with pots on the stove top. If you have a vent
over the range, good idea to use it during the worst part of the cycle.




  #6 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.equipment
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,234
Default using the 'clean' feature for an oven

On Sat 29 Nov 2008 06:24:31p, Sky told us...

> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>

>
>> On Sat 29 Nov 2008 04:15:38p, Sky told us...
>>

>
>> > Okay, I very rarely use my range oven, but it does need cleaning. Si

> nce
>> > spouse and I tend to cook for one most of the time, our small
>> > toaster-oven frequently gets used instead, often mutliple times in a
>> > single day.
>> >
>> > My GE natural gas range is relatively new; it was purchased some six
>> > years ago or so. However, the "cleaning" feature for the oven has ne

> ver
>> > been used. Other than RTFM (which is a given <g>), what other
>> > peculiarities should I know when 'cleaning' the oven? For instance,
>> > I've heard it's wise to remove the oven shelves/racks before 'cleanin

> g,'
>> > so I intend to do that. Anything else? Wipe down the interior first

> ,
>> > perhaps? I really have no clue.

>>

>
>> One thing to remember is adequate ventilation. If you have a vent hood

> or
>> similar underneath an over the range m/w, be sure it’s turned on. Yo

> u may
>> want to open a window a bit as well.
>>

>
>> I’ve never used a self-clean cycle on a gas range, but I can’t imag

> ine
>> their operation is too different. I never wipe mine down, but I do rem

> ove
>> any obvious bits of things that might be on the bottom or sides.
>>

>
>> If there are optional lengths of time on the cleaning cycle, I generall

> y
>> choose the longest.
>>
>> Wayne Boatwright

>
> Very helpful suggestions! And that's the term I meant to use --
> "self-clean"! Basically, I think it means both heating elements to the
> oven turn on (baking & broiling) so the interior gets baked to a high
> enough degree where the contents are rendered to ash - something like
> that. Thanks
>
> Sky
>


You’re welcome. Yes, I think both electric and gas self-cleaning ranges
use both the baking and broiling elements to achieve the high temperatures
required to burn off the soil. IIRC, the usual temperature during that
cycle is in the neighborhood of 750-800 degrees F,

--
Wayne Boatwright
(correct the spelling of "geemail" to reply)
************************************************** **********************
Date: Saturday, 11(XI)/29(XXIX)/08(MMVIII)
************************************************** **********************
Countdown till Christmas Day
3wks 4dys 3hrs 33mins
************************************************** **********************
California raisins murdered: Cereal Killer suspected
************************************************** **********************

  #7 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.equipment
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 566
Default using the 'clean' feature for an oven

On Sun, 30 Nov 2008 00:53:53 GMT, Wayne Boatwright >
wrote:

>If there are optional lengths of time on the cleaning cycle, I generally
>choose the longest.


Interesting -- did you try all the options first, and determine that was
necessary for your oven?

Our GE Profile has three selectable cycle lengths. I tried the longest (4 hrs.
20 mins.) first, then the shortest (3 hrs.), and saw no difference, so I've
always used the shortest. Most of the time, assuming I know it's not too bad, I
manually end it after 2 hours.

I always leave the bakestone and racks in -- guess I'm just lazy. Since anything
that spills hits the bakestone, there are no grease build-ups. The only prep I
ever do is to scrape thick residue -- like pizza cheese -- off the bakestone,
and that's simply to avoid the extra smoke generated in burning it off.

I don't mind the racks sliding less smoothly.

As always, YMMV.

-- Larry
  #8 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.equipment
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,313
Default using the 'clean' feature for an oven


"pltrgyst" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 30 Nov 2008 00:53:53 GMT, Wayne Boatwright
> >
> wrote:
>
>>If there are optional lengths of time on the cleaning cycle, I generally
>>choose the longest.

>
> Interesting -- did you try all the options first, and determine that was
> necessary for your oven?
>
> Our GE Profile has three selectable cycle lengths. I tried the longest (4
> hrs.
> 20 mins.) first, then the shortest (3 hrs.), and saw no difference, so
> I've
> always used the shortest. Most of the time, assuming I know it's not too
> bad, I
> manually end it after 2 hours.
>
> I always leave the bakestone and racks in -- guess I'm just lazy. Since
> anything
> that spills hits the bakestone, there are no grease build-ups. The only
> prep I
> ever do is to scrape thick residue -- like pizza cheese -- off the
> bakestone,
> and that's simply to avoid the extra smoke generated in burning it off.
>
> I don't mind the racks sliding less smoothly.
>
> As always, YMMV.
>
> -- Larry



Geez, I never though of using the shortest length of time. I like to leave
the windows open, and even though I'd like to clean it in winter,I will look
at mine and see if there is a "manual-end"; good idea!

I, too, use it as an occasion to clean up the two stones I use.

Another opinion: I've been taking out my racks before I "clean" even though
they are porcelain (I think). I recall struggling with racks not gliding
out :-(

Off topic of the poster's query: I wish I could talk myself into leaving
the bakestones in all the time. Since I'm not using a microwave any longer,
I use the oven a LOT for periods of mostly 30 minutes, and I feel that it
will take too much time to heat the oven, as the stones will have to heat
first (Wish I knew scientifcally what the answer is.). My oven seems to
take a long time to heat to temperature; I usually put things I have to
defrost -- like meat -- in from the start of heating.

Dee Dee





  #9 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.equipment
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,516
Default using the 'clean' feature for an oven

pltrgyst wrote:

> Our GE Profile has three selectable cycle lengths. I tried the longest (4 hrs.
> 20 mins.) first, then the shortest (3 hrs.), and saw no difference, so I've
> always used the shortest. Most of the time, assuming I know it's not too bad, I
> manually end it after 2 hours.


Mine is electric, but the 3 hour cycle works fine. I leave the racks in
and they haven't had any problems.
--
Janet Wilder
Bad spelling. Bad punctuation
Good Friends. Good Life
  #10 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.equipment
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 566
Default using the 'clean' feature for an oven

On Sun, 30 Nov 2008 09:47:43 -0500, "Dee Randall" > wrote:

>....I will look at mine and see if there is a "manual-end"....


IIRC, your stove is very similar to ours, so this should just be the "Stop"
button.

>I use the oven a LOT for periods of mostly 30 minutes, and I feel that it
>will take too much time to heat the oven, as the stones will have to heat
>first (Wish I knew scientifcally what the answer is.).


Your instinct is right, that the bakestone will slow up the overall heating. But
actually, the stones heat last -- the air in the oven will heat up faster, and
the bakestone slower, so the bakestone slows down the overall heating-up.

My usage pattern must be the opposite of yours -- I never even turn the main
oven on without giving it at least 30 minutes to heat up. For any shorter
period, I would use the lower drawer oven, with no stone in it. It has a lot
less volume, and heats up quicker even with its smaller heating element.

> My oven seems to take a long time to heat to temperature; I usually put things I have to
>defrost -- like meat -- in from the start of heating.


Mine too is pretty slow -- I ascribe that to the concealed heating element. But
slow heating should be better for frozen meats, shouldn't it?

I've never put any frozen meat directly in the oven, though -- always defrost in
the microwave or in a bowl of cold water. The bowl of water method takes only
around 20 minutes for anything on the order of one to two pounds.

-- Larry


  #11 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.equipment
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,415
Default using the 'clean' feature for an oven

On Sat, 29 Nov 2008 17:15:38 -0600, Sky >
wrote:

>Okay, I very rarely use my range oven, but it does need cleaning. Since
>spouse and I tend to cook for one most of the time, our small
>toaster-oven frequently gets used instead, often mutliple times in a
>single day.
>
>My GE natural gas range is relatively new; it was purchased some six
>years ago or so. However, the "cleaning" feature for the oven has never
>been used. Other than RTFM (which is a given <g>), what other
>peculiarities should I know when 'cleaning' the oven? For instance,
>I've heard it's wise to remove the oven shelves/racks before 'cleaning,'
>so I intend to do that. Anything else? Wipe down the interior first,
>perhaps? I really have no clue.
>
>Sky, who has a few fire extinguishers around for just-in-case!
>
>P.S. Don't ask about the time when a whole beef tenderloin roast was
>held captive in the electric oven one holiday many years ago when the
>oven was accidentally set to 'clean' -- and it locked(!!!), with said
>roast inside the oven! The electric breaker for the oven was
>subsequently turned off to circumvent the clean cycle. The roast was
>eventually rescued - whew!



Check your user's manual about whether or not to leave the racks in. I
had a GE electric from 1975 until we moved in 2004. I always left the
racks in and if they were original, the drip pans. I never put the
replacement drip pans in.

Wipe the inside down after it cleans. A vacuum cleaner works well to
get the ash out.

It is definitely pays to read the owner's manual.
  #12 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.equipment
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 262
Default using the 'clean' feature for an oven

In article >,
pltrgyst > wrote:

> My usage pattern must be the opposite of yours -- I never even turn the main
> oven on without giving it at least 30 minutes to heat up. For any shorter
> period, I would use the lower drawer oven, with no stone in it. It has a lot
> less volume, and heats up quicker even with its smaller heating element.
>
> > My oven seems to take a long time to heat to temperature; I usually put
> > things I have to
> >defrost -- like meat -- in from the start of heating.

>
> Mine too is pretty slow -- I ascribe that to the concealed heating element.
> But
> slow heating should be better for frozen meats, shouldn't it?


I'm quite fortunate the oven I got. It was a Roper on sale for $600 a
few years ago. The oven has a self-clean that takes 3 1/2 hours, and
the manual said I could leave the stainless steel racks in it, which I
do. Never had a problem with the racks sliding.

As to the oven heating time, I noticed that during the timer countdown
from when I turn it on, the tally for the oven burners going drops off
early, so I tried an experiment with four oven thermometers: One on the
floor, one on a low rack, one on a rack just above center, and one
carefully hung from the broiler coil. I set the oven for 375 degrees
and waited for the tally to go out. I opened the door and looked at all
for thermometers. All four read 373 to 375, and there was about 2
minutes remaining on the 9 minute countdown.

This has been a great oven on the whole, except that the Maytag parent
company reputation for reliability is not what they advertise. I had a
control circuit go out on me, and the replacement circuit was $205
initially. Using the internet, I got it down to $175. I didn't have
the money at the time, and by the time I could afford it, I found the
internet price had dropped to $52, and one supplier sold it for $46. I
also learned the reason for the drop was a high lemon factor on this
circuit, and its resultant increase in volume lead to the price drop.
Incidentally, this circuit is used in over 20 models across multiple
brands.

And finally, my machinist angle on why some oven racks need to come out
during self-clean. These racks are made of steel. Be it a stainless or
a high-carbon steel, these metals get hardened by heating them to over
2000 degrees F. But then, hardened steels can be brittle, so they need
a specific softening process called annealing. On high carbon steels
used in ceramic coated racks, the annealing temperature can be a low as
725-750 degrees, while stainless can be as warm as over 1000 degrees to
anneal. When a metal reaches annealing temperatures, it can warp,
especially if the cooling temperature is uneven towards one side. Also,
if the seating of the rack in the even is not correct, there can be
stresses against the rack that can induce warpage when the metal softens
at the annealing temperature.

jt
  #13 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.equipment
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,234
Default using the 'clean' feature for an oven

On Sat 29 Nov 2008 09:58:54p, pltrgyst told us...

> On Sun, 30 Nov 2008 00:53:53 GMT, Wayne Boatwright
> > wrote:
>
>>If there are optional lengths of time on the cleaning cycle, I generally
>>choose the longest.

>
> Interesting -- did you try all the options first, and determine that was
> necessary for your oven?


I’ve had a Frigidaire and a Whirlpool. I found that the longest cycle did
the best on the glass door. That’s primarily why I use it.

I do remove the racks, as I like keeping them shiny, although I put the
baking stone in the bottom of the oven (it has a concealed bottom coil).
Occasionally I put the cast iron grids from the gas grill in for a good
cleaning.

> Our GE Profile has three selectable cycle lengths. I tried the longest
> (4 hrs. 20 mins.) first, then the shortest (3 hrs.), and saw no
> difference, so I've always used the shortest. Most of the time, assuming
> I know it's not too bad, I manually end it after 2 hours.
>
> I always leave the bakestone and racks in -- guess I'm just lazy. Since
> anything that spills hits the bakestone, there are no grease build-ups.
> The only prep I ever do is to scrape thick residue -- like pizza cheese
> -- off the bakestone, and that's simply to avoid the extra smoke
> generated in burning it off.
>
> I don't mind the racks sliding less smoothly.
>
> As always, YMMV.
>
> -- Larry
>




--
Wayne Boatwright
(correct the spelling of "geemail" to reply)
************************************************** **********************
Date: Sunday, 11(XI)/30(XXX)/08(MMVIII)
************************************************** **********************
Today is: Feast of St. Andrew, First Sunday of Advent
Countdown till Christmas Day
3wks 3dys 5hrs 10mins
************************************************** **********************
'Bother,' said Pooh, as the brakes went out.
************************************************** **********************
  #14 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.equipment
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12,851
Default using the 'clean' feature for an oven


"jt august" > wrote in message
> This has been a great oven on the whole, except that the Maytag parent
> company reputation for reliability is not what they advertise. I had a
> control circuit go out on me, and the replacement circuit was $205
> initially. Using the internet, I got it down to $175. I didn't have
> the money at the time, and by the time I could afford it, I found the
> internet price had dropped to $52, and one supplier sold it for $46. I
> also learned the reason for the drop was a high lemon factor on this
> circuit, and its resultant increase in volume lead to the price drop.
> Incidentally, this circuit is used in over 20 models across multiple
> brands.


That is why I chose a brand that uses no electronics. $50 is not all that
bad, but I wonder if it will even be available in five or ten years and what
the price will be.


  #15 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.equipment
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,313
Default using the 'clean' feature for an oven


"pltrgyst" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 30 Nov 2008 09:47:43 -0500, "Dee Randall" >
> wrote:
>
>>....I will look at mine and see if there is a "manual-end"....

>
> IIRC, your stove is very similar to ours, so this should just be the
> "Stop"
> button.



Yes, it pays to read one's manual -- I just read that there IS a 'stop'
button. Thanks. Also it refreshes my mind that I can choose 2-3-or 4 hour
clean. I'll have to pay more attention when DH does the 'lock down'
exercise.

*****


> My usage pattern must be the opposite of yours -- I never even turn the
> main
> oven on without giving it at least 30 minutes to heat up. For any shorter
> period, I would use the lower drawer oven, with no stone in it. It has a
> lot
> less volume, and heats up quicker even with its smaller heating element.



I've been lax about using the lower drawer oven feature at all! even though
I was adamant that I wanted this feature and that there be an element in the
lower drawer. It's good to talk about these things! so I'm going to be
more attentive to this feature I have. Slap my hands!

***


I usually put things I have to
>>defrost -- like meat -- in from the start of heating.

>
> Mine too is pretty slow -- I ascribe that to the concealed heating
> element. But
> slow heating should be better for frozen meats, shouldn't it?
>
> I've never put any frozen meat directly in the oven, though -- always
> defrost in
> the microwave or in a bowl of cold water. The bowl of water method takes
> only
> around 20 minutes for anything on the order of one to two pounds.
> -- Larry



DH has been buying larger pieces of meat/chicken or large quantities of
sausages and grilling and then freezing. So our meat is most always cooked
before defrosting/heating an individual packet for dinner.


I should've perhaps added "I usually put frozen raw meat -- frozen FISH
fillets, and the like -- in the oven 'after' it comes to temp - usually
around 400-425º.
I know this is not a 'cooking group,' but... I read somewhere that frozen
fish was just a good or even better cooking it from a frozen state. So I
cook the fish 'pieces' ; i.e., wild salmon fillets and other non-farmed
fillets, sea scallops, and shrimp, this way (All Costco products :-)).

I put it (them) in a pan lined with parchment, sometimes covered with
parchment for some of the time, add butter, lemon or whatever desired, and
cook until I feel it is done, using my trusty Thermapen (thermometer for
those who don't know of this temperature probe.)

I am the fish and occasional sausage eater; DH being the meat eater; for
example, last night was salmon for me and pork chop for him; however, he put
the chop in a small ss pan on a teeny rack with water underneath to defrost
and heat -- still moist and well-heated. We're coming up with various ways
to defrost and heat since the microwave is still not being used.

Dee Dee














  #16 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.equipment
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 77
Default using the 'clean' feature for an oven


>
>I do remove the racks, as I like keeping them shiny, although I put the
>baking stone in the bottom of the oven (it has a concealed bottom coil).
>Occasionally I put the cast iron grids from the gas grill in for a good
>cleaning.
>
>>


I too have a range with a concealed coil in the bottom. Kind of a
neat feature especially for cleanup. Last night I tried my first
cleanup after making a mess in the bottom. I wiped up what I could
prior to cleaning, and being as it was just that one spot set it for
the two hour clean. When I was done I wiped up what was left of the
ash in the bottom, and noticed a dull finish to the bottom of the
interior. This morning I took a scrubber with some warm dawn and
tried to remove the greasy film. No luck it's still there. It
doesn't seem to bother anything it's just crappy looking. Any
suggestions on how to remove it?
  #17 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.equipment
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 286
Default using the 'clean' feature for an oven

Roughrider50 wrote:
>> I do remove the racks, as I like keeping them shiny, although I put the
>> baking stone in the bottom of the oven (it has a concealed bottom coil).
>> Occasionally I put the cast iron grids from the gas grill in for a good
>> cleaning.
>>

>
> I too have a range with a concealed coil in the bottom. Kind of a
> neat feature especially for cleanup. Last night I tried my first
> cleanup after making a mess in the bottom. I wiped up what I could
> prior to cleaning, and being as it was just that one spot set it for
> the two hour clean. When I was done I wiped up what was left of the
> ash in the bottom, and noticed a dull finish to the bottom of the
> interior. This morning I took a scrubber with some warm dawn and
> tried to remove the greasy film. No luck it's still there. It
> doesn't seem to bother anything it's just crappy looking. Any
> suggestions on how to remove it?


I have no recommendation on how to remove it. I do recommend that you
ignore it.

Matthew (I have several unpolished copper pans)

--
"All you need to start an asylum is an empty room and the right kind of
people". Alexander Bullock ("My Man Godfrey" 1936):
  #18 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.equipment
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,234
Default using the 'clean' feature for an oven

On Mon 01 Dec 2008 04:44:07p, Matthew L. Martin told us...

> Roughrider50 wrote:
>>> I do remove the racks, as I like keeping them shiny, although I put
>>> the baking stone in the bottom of the oven (it has a concealed bottom
>>> coil). Occasionally I put the cast iron grids from the gas grill in
>>> for a good cleaning.
>>>

>>
>> I too have a range with a concealed coil in the bottom. Kind of a
>> neat feature especially for cleanup. Last night I tried my first
>> cleanup after making a mess in the bottom. I wiped up what I could
>> prior to cleaning, and being as it was just that one spot set it for
>> the two hour clean. When I was done I wiped up what was left of the
>> ash in the bottom, and noticed a dull finish to the bottom of the
>> interior. This morning I took a scrubber with some warm dawn and
>> tried to remove the greasy film. No luck it's still there. It
>> doesn't seem to bother anything it's just crappy looking. Any
>> suggestions on how to remove it?

>
> I have no recommendation on how to remove it. I do recommend that you
> ignore it.
>
> Matthew (I have several unpolished copper pans)


It may be permanent. I had a similar problem occur with my first self-
cleaning oven (can’t remember the brand). It was caused by a small
spillover of juices from pork and sauerkraut. I concluded that the acid
from the sauerkraut etched the baked enamel finish. While the oven was
perfectly clean, this particular area remained dull. It will definitely
not affect the ovens baking or roasting ability.

--
Wayne Boatwright
(correct the spelling of "geemail" to reply)
************************************************** **********************
Date: Monday, 12(XII)/01(I)/08(MMVIII)
************************************************** **********************
Countdown till Christmas Day
3wks 2dys 5hrs 37mins
************************************************** **********************
An evil mind is a constant solace.
************************************************** **********************

  #19 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.equipment
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12
Default using the 'clean' feature for an oven

On Nov 29, 6:15*pm, Sky > wrote:
> Okay, I very rarely use my range oven, but it does need cleaning. *Since
> spouse and I tend to cook for one most of the time, our small
> toaster-oven frequently gets used instead, often mutliple times in a
> single day.
>
> My GE natural gas range is relatively new; it was purchased some six
> years ago or so. *However, the "cleaning" feature for the oven has never
> been used. *Other than RTFM (which is a given <g>), what other
> peculiarities should I know when 'cleaning' the oven? *For instance,
> I've heard it's wise to remove the oven shelves/racks before 'cleaning,'
> so I intend to do that. *Anything else? *Wipe down the interior first,
> perhaps? *I really have no clue. *


When I tried using the "self clean" option on my oven, it was a total
disaster. I only tried that because I was curious about what exactly
it entailed. Basically, I think "self clean" (at least in my case)
means that the stove heats up to a hellish temperature, sets off your
fire alarm, and infuriates your neighbors. That's all. No magic
scrubbing fairies. I think the idea is that the extreme heat acts as
a disinfectant, but I am not so sure. (Why not just use a
disinfecting cleaning solution and save on energy costs?) I had to
turn the "self-clean" before it finished. I use my oven a lot, and it
gets filthy, but I still rather clean it the old-fashioned way.

  #20 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.equipment
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,234
Default using the 'clean' feature for an oven

On Tue 02 Dec 2008 06:29:21p, Irina Paley told us...

> On Nov 29, 6:15*pm, Sky > wrote:
>> Okay, I very rarely use my range oven, but it does need cleaning. *Sinc

> e
>> spouse and I tend to cook for one most of the time, our small
>> toaster-oven frequently gets used instead, often mutliple times in a
>> single day.
>>
>> My GE natural gas range is relatively new; it was purchased some six
>> years ago or so. *However, the "cleaning" feature for the oven has neve

> r
>> been used. *Other than RTFM (which is a given <g>), what other
>> peculiarities should I know when 'cleaning' the oven? *For instance,
>> I've heard it's wise to remove the oven shelves/racks before 'cleaning,'
>> so I intend to do that. *Anything else? *Wipe down the interior first

> ,
>> perhaps? *I really have no clue. *

>
> When I tried using the "self clean" option on my oven, it was a total
> disaster. I only tried that because I was curious about what exactly
> it entailed. Basically, I think "self clean" (at least in my case)
> means that the stove heats up to a hellish temperature, sets off your
> fire alarm, and infuriates your neighbors. That's all. No magic
> scrubbing fairies. I think the idea is that the extreme heat acts as
> a disinfectant, but I am not so sure. (Why not just use a
> disinfecting cleaning solution and save on energy costs?) I had to
> turn the "self-clean" before it finished. I use my oven a lot, and it
> gets filthy, but I still rather clean it the old-fashioned way.


Too bad you invested in one, or maybe you invested in one that isn’t very
good at cleaning.

Over the years I’ve owned several different brands of ranges with self
cleaning ovens, and any complaints I’ve had are too minor to mention.

Yes, the stove heats up to a “hellish” temperature. It’s supposed to. It
must reach a temperature that will incinerate spots and spatters of cooked
foods and fats. If the oven isn’t cleaned frequently enough and the oven
is terribly messy, it’s possible (though not likely) that more than one
cleaning cycle might be needed.

Properly used, a self cleaning oven will be virtually spotless when the
cycle is completed, with only a small amount of ash that can be either
vacuumed out or wiped clean with a damp towel.

--
Wayne Boatwright
(correct the spelling of "geemail" to reply)
************************************************** **********************
Date: Tuesday, 12(XII)/02(II)/08(MMVIII)
************************************************** **********************
Countdown till Christmas Day
3wks 1dys 4hrs 45mins
************************************************** **********************
I get my exercise acting as a pallbearer to my friends who
exercise. --Chauncey Depew
************************************************** **********************


  #21 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.equipment
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 566
Default using the 'clean' feature for an oven

On Tue, 2 Dec 2008 17:29:21 -0800 (PST), Irina Paley >
wrote:

>When I tried using the "self clean" option on my oven, it was a total
>disaster. I only tried that because I was curious about what exactly
>it entailed....


Ah, so you bought an oven, but didn't bother to read the manual.

>.... I had to turn the "self-clean" before it finished. I use my oven a lot, and it
>gets filthy, but I still rather clean it the old-fashioned way.


Still using the outhouse, as well?

-- Larry
  #22 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.equipment
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12,124
Default using the 'clean' feature for an oven

In article >,
Sky > wrote:

> For instance, I've heard it's wise to remove the oven shelves/racks
> before 'cleaning,' so I intend to do that. Anything else? Wipe down
> the interior first, perhaps? I really have no clue.


Sky I have an electric oven. I wipe up carbonized bubbles of whatever
spilled over (sweet stuff is a good example) from the oven floor.

I leave the racks in place. My oven manual says to remove them and I
asked the salesman why. The reason he gave is that if they go through
the cleaning cycle they won't slide as easily. I knew that and had read
(my former oven manual, I believe) that a bit of oil on the bottom edge
of the rack will allow them to slide easily. That's what I do. It
doesn't take much oil -- on a fingertip is sufficient -- to let them slide
easily.

HTH.
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
<http://www.caringbridge.org/visit/amytaylor> -- the world can
learn much about grace from Amy and Warren.
  #23 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.equipment
Sky Sky is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,348
Default using the 'clean' feature for an oven

Melba's Jammin' wrote:
>
> In article >,
> Sky > wrote:
>
> > For instance, I've heard it's wise to remove the oven shelves/racks
> > before 'cleaning,' so I intend to do that. Anything else? Wipe down
> > the interior first, perhaps? I really have no clue.

>
> Sky I have an electric oven. I wipe up carbonized bubbles of whatever
> spilled over (sweet stuff is a good example) from the oven floor.
>
> I leave the racks in place. My oven manual says to remove them and I
> asked the salesman why. The reason he gave is that if they go through
> the cleaning cycle they won't slide as easily. I knew that and had read
> (my former oven manual, I believe) that a bit of oil on the bottom edge
> of the rack will allow them to slide easily. That's what I do. It
> doesn't take much oil -- on a fingertip is sufficient -- to let them slide
> easily.
>
> HTH.
> --
> -Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
> <http://www.caringbridge.org/visit/amytaylor> -- the world can
> learn much about grace from Amy and Warren.


Thanks for the feedback. It's helpful to know.

Sky

--
Ultra Ultimate Kitchen Rule - Use the Timer!
Ultimate Kitchen Rule -- Cook's Choice
  #24 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.equipment
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10
Default using the 'clean' feature for an oven

Sky wrote:
> ...
> I've heard it's wise to remove the oven shelves/racks before 'cleaning,'
> so I intend to do that...


Good idea. Glide racks, in particular, will be ruined if they are
left in the oven during self-clean. And even regular racks will
lose their nice shiny finish.

W.
  #25 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.equipment
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 102
Default using the 'clean' feature for an oven

In Sky
> wrote:

> For instance, I've heard it's wise to remove the oven shelves/racks
> before 'cleaning,' so I intend to do that.


Your owner's manual should have told you not to leave the shelves and
broiler pan in the oven when cleaning.

--
Bert Hyman St. Paul, MN


  #26 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.equipment
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12,851
Default using the 'clean' feature for an oven


"pltrgyst" > wrote in message
>
> I don't buy stoves with anything other than porcelain-coated racks,
> unless I know I can buy porcelain-coated replacement racks from the
> manufacturer in question. This is just part of the shopping process.
>
> -- Larry


From what I've seen you have limited brands to choose from. I don't recall
seeing a porcelain rack in my recent search for a range.
Just curious, how often do you buy stoves? Mine was 21 years old and I
expect the new one to outlast me, another 20 to 30 years, I hope. Never had
a sag in the SS racks either.


  #27 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.equipment
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 48
Default using the 'clean' feature for an oven

On Fri, 05 Dec 2008 15:58:45 -0800, Walter Spector
> wrote:

>Good idea. Glide racks, in particular, will be ruined if they are
>left in the oven during self-clean. And even regular racks will
>lose their nice shiny finish.


What's a "glide rack"? And, for that matter,what's a "regular rack"?

Stainless steel racks will be dramatically affected, but they are,
IMO, vastly inferior to porcelain-coated steel racks. Warping is a
much bigger problem with SS racks than loss of finish.

Porcelain-coated racks work just fine after hundreds of self-cleaning
cycles with just a dab of oil, as already mentioned.

I don't buy stoves with anything other than porcelain-coated racks,
unless I know I can buy porcelain-coated replacement racks from the
manufacturer in question. This is just part of the shopping process.

-- Larry

  #28 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.equipment
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,415
Default using the 'clean' feature for an oven

On Fri, 5 Dec 2008 23:26:06 -0500, "Ed Pawlowski" >
wrote:

>
>"pltrgyst" > wrote in message
>>
>> I don't buy stoves with anything other than porcelain-coated racks,
>> unless I know I can buy porcelain-coated replacement racks from the
>> manufacturer in question. This is just part of the shopping process.
>>
>> -- Larry

>
>From what I've seen you have limited brands to choose from. I don't recall
>seeing a porcelain rack in my recent search for a range.
>Just curious, how often do you buy stoves? Mine was 21 years old and I
>expect the new one to outlast me, another 20 to 30 years, I hope. Never had
>a sag in the SS racks either.
>


My top line GE smooth-top range has porcelain-coated racks and the
instruction book says they may be left in during self cleaning. My
1970s GE Americana double oven's instructions also said you could
leave the racks in. You could also put the liners from the top oven
and the original drip pans in the cleaning cycle. I always left the
racks in and put the top oven liners in too. We bought the first GE
when we moved into our house in 1974. It was still working just fine
when we moved in 2004. The purchaser said to leave it, she liked it.
  #29 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.equipment
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 286
Default using the 'clean' feature for an oven

The Cook wrote:

>
> y
> 1970s GE Americana double oven's instructions also said you could
> leave the racks in. You could also put the liners from the top oven
> and the original drip pans in the cleaning cycle. I always left the
> racks in and put the top oven liners in too. We bought the first GE
> when we moved into our house in 1974. It was still working just fine
> when we moved in 2004. The purchaser said to leave it, she liked it.


I had one of those. I bought it used and rebuilt the lower oven. The
lower oven was combination conventional/microwave with a turntable and
was self cleaning. The upper oven's liners slipped out for cleaning in
the lower oven.

It had one burner that had multiple sizes and a thermal control so you
could cook by temperature.

I really liked it, but it went with the house when I sold it.

Matthew

--
"All you need to start an asylum is an empty room and the right kind of
people". Alexander Bullock ("My Man Godfrey" 1936):
  #30 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.equipment
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12,124
Default using the 'clean' feature for an oven

In article > ,
Walter Spector > wrote:

> Sky wrote:
> > ...
> > I've heard it's wise to remove the oven shelves/racks before 'cleaning,'
> > so I intend to do that...

>
> Good idea. Glide racks, in particular, will be ruined if they are
> left in the oven during self-clean. And even regular racks will
> lose their nice shiny finish.
>
> W.


How will they be ruined?

--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
<http://www.caringbridge.org/visit/amytaylor> -- the world can
learn much about grace from Amy and Warren.


  #31 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.equipment
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,415
Default using the 'clean' feature for an oven

On Fri, 05 Dec 2008 15:58:45 -0800, Walter Spector
> wrote:

>Sky wrote:
>> ...
>> I've heard it's wise to remove the oven shelves/racks before 'cleaning,'
>> so I intend to do that...

>
>Good idea. Glide racks, in particular, will be ruined if they are
>left in the oven during self-clean. And even regular racks will
>lose their nice shiny finish.
>
>W.


I depends on your range and racks. The instructions for my 1974 GE
self cleaning oven said to leave them in. I did for 20 years and they
were still fine.
  #32 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.equipment
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,313
Default using the 'clean' feature for an oven


"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
...
>
> "pltrgyst" > wrote in message
>>
>> I don't buy stoves with anything other than porcelain-coated racks,
>> unless I know I can buy porcelain-coated replacement racks from the
>> manufacturer in question. This is just part of the shopping process.
>>
>> -- Larry

>
> From what I've seen you have limited brands to choose from. I don't
> recall seeing a porcelain rack in my recent search for a range.
> Just curious, how often do you buy stoves? Mine was 21 years old and I
> expect the new one to outlast me, another 20 to 30 years, I hope. Never
> had a sag in the SS racks either.



My range Sears Elite bought 12-5-06 has porcelain racks:
Precautions:
Porcelain oven racks do not have to be removed. After the cycle is complete
and the oven has cooled, rube the sides of the oven racks with wax paper or
a cloth containing a small amount of salad oil (this will make the racks
glide easier into the rack position.)

Dee Dee


  #33 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.equipment
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 262
Default using the 'clean' feature for an oven

In article >,
Melba's Jammin' > wrote:

> > Good idea. Glide racks, in particular, will be ruined if they are
> > left in the oven during self-clean. And even regular racks will
> > lose their nice shiny finish.
> >
> > W.

>
> How will they be ruined?


If the slip fit is very fine, the racks can warp just a bit, perhaps
5-12 one-thousandths of an inch (read as 0.005 - 0.012 on a blue print).
But this bowing can press on the glide tracks of an oven to create
friction, thus impairing the glide.

jt
  #34 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.equipment
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 286
Default using the 'clean' feature for an oven

jt august wrote:
> In article >,
> Melba's Jammin' > wrote:
>
>>> Good idea. Glide racks, in particular, will be ruined if they are
>>> left in the oven during self-clean. And even regular racks will
>>> lose their nice shiny finish.
>>>
>>> W.

>> How will they be ruined?

>
> If the slip fit is very fine, the racks can warp just a bit, perhaps
> 5-12 one-thousandths of an inch (read as 0.005 - 0.012 on a blue print).
> But this bowing can press on the glide tracks of an oven to create
> friction, thus impairing the glide.
>


If the manufacturer says that the racks can stay in the oven during a
cleaning cycle and they warp enough to be non-functional I would make a
warranty claim. A minor increase in friction is what happens to regular
racks left in for a cleaning cycle. I hardly see a difference.

Matthew

--
"All you need to start an asylum is an empty room and the right kind of
people". Alexander Bullock ("My Man Godfrey" 1936):
  #35 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.equipment
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 262
Default using the 'clean' feature for an oven

In article >,
"Matthew L. Martin" > wrote:

> > If the slip fit is very fine, the racks can warp just a bit, perhaps
> > 5-12 one-thousandths of an inch (read as 0.005 - 0.012 on a blue print).
> > But this bowing can press on the glide tracks of an oven to create
> > friction, thus impairing the glide.
> >

>
> If the manufacturer says that the racks can stay in the oven during a
> cleaning cycle and they warp enough to be non-functional I would make a
> warranty claim. A minor increase in friction is what happens to regular
> racks left in for a cleaning cycle. I hardly see a difference.


If the manufacturer says the racks can stay in, they either engineered
the metals and geometry too avoid warpage, or the clearances are great
enough to remain clear on slight warpage. It comes down to the
engineering.

jt


  #36 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.equipment
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10
Default using the 'clean' feature for an oven

pltrgyst wrote:
> On Fri, 05 Dec 2008 15:58:45 -0800, Walter Spector
> > wrote:
>
>> Good idea. Glide racks, in particular, will be ruined if they are
>> left in the oven during self-clean. And even regular racks will
>> lose their nice shiny finish.

>
> What's a "glide rack"? And, for that matter,what's a "regular rack"?


They roll on bearings to make it easier to work with heavy pots
and roasters. Very nice feature.

For example, Dacors version:

http://www.dacor.com/Our-Products/Ac...ide-Racks.aspx

And Vikings version:

http://www.vikingrange.com/consumer/...id=prod4690185

If you use self-clean on one of these, you will have just ruined
a $200 rack.

W.



  #37 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.equipment
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10
Default using the 'clean' feature for an oven

jt august wrote:
> ...
> If the manufacturer says the racks can stay in, they either engineered
> the metals and geometry too avoid warpage, or the clearances are great
> enough to remain clear on slight warpage. It comes down to the
> engineering.


In both the Dacor and Viking examples I posted upthread, the
manufacturers state that the racks (both regular and glide) should be
removed before self-clean. I currently own both a Dacor range and a
Viking wall oven. So these are the examples I am familiar with.

Older self-cleaning ovens that I have had, basically GE and Frigidaire,
did not have restrictions on leaving the racks in during self cleaning.
OTOH, none had the nice glide racks, and none had the nice chrome-plated
surfaces and heavy steel construction that these higher end racks have.
You could describe their racks as 'cheap'. The only good thing about them
was that, being unplated, you could leave them in the oven during self-clean..
And their clearances were loose enough that it didn't matter how warped
they got.

W.
  #38 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.equipment
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 566
Default using the 'clean' feature for an oven

On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 09:06:52 -0800, Walter Spector
> wrote:

>> What's a "glide rack"? And, for that matter,what's a "regular rack"?

>
>They roll on bearings to make it easier to work with heavy pots
>and roasters. Very nice feature.
>
>For example, Dacors version:
>
> http://www.dacor.com/Our-Products/Ac...ide-Racks.aspx
>
>And Vikings version:
>
> http://www.vikingrange.com/consumer/...id=prod4690185


Nice, thanks. Some day when I splurge on a kitchen... 8

-- Larry
  #39 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.equipment
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 262
Default using the 'clean' feature for an oven

In article >,
Walter Spector > wrote:

> They roll on bearings to make it easier to work with heavy pots
> and roasters. Very nice feature.
>
> For example, Dacors version:
>
> http://www.dacor.com/Our-Products/Ac...en-Glide-Racks.
> aspx
>
> And Vikings version:
>
> http://www.vikingrange.com/consumer/...id=prod4690185
>
> If you use self-clean on one of these, you will have just ruined
> a $200 rack.


The bearings onside those racks are sealed bearings, that is that
nothing can get in or out. Within those seals, the bearings have a high
heat resilient lubricant, most likely a synthetic lube. However, the
very high heat achieved in most self-clean cycles is sufficient to break
down these lubricants, which is why they would be ruined after being
cleaned like that. In addition, the lubricants can potentially boil,
and in turning vaporous, they can breach the seal and leak. And if they
do leak, the smoke could be significant.

jt
Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Good day to clean the oven Dave Smith[_1_] General Cooking 7 16-05-2011 03:49 AM
Easy way to clean oven Lenona General Cooking 16 17-02-2011 04:27 PM
How do you clean your basic apartment oven? Karen AKA Kajikit General Cooking 13 28-01-2007 10:56 PM
OT..Keeping oven clean Bill Reynolds General Cooking 13 19-02-2005 06:53 PM
How to Clean Microwave/Convection Oven? BMC Baking 2 10-01-2004 06:05 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:32 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 FoodBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about Food and drink"