Does anyone know where to buy a pizza stone specifically designed for a
grill? The standard stones
tend to crack because of the high grate heat underneath, and the sudden
change in temp. on the top
when you open the hood. At least I have wiped out two that way.
I've never felt you could do a decent pizza on the grill. At least mine have
flopped. However
in another NG a poster makes pizza margherita on the grill. It strikes me
that should work
better than in the oven. You should be able to get your stone hotter, and
the temp. on the top of the pizza
isn't as much of an issue when you are making sausage pizza.. The thin crust
should cook in just a couple of minutes, as it should.
TIA,

Kent

"Kent" > wrote in message
. ..
> Does anyone know where to buy a pizza stone specifically designed for a
> grill? The standard stones
> tend to crack because of the high grate heat underneath, and the sudden
> change in temp. on the top
> when you open the hood. At least I have wiped out two that way.
> I've never felt you could do a decent pizza on the grill. At least mine
> have flopped. However
> in another NG a poster makes pizza margherita on the grill. It strikes me
> that should work
> better than in the oven. You should be able to get your stone hotter, and
> the temp. on the top of the pizza
> isn't as much of an issue when you are making sausage pizza.. The thin
> crust should cook in just a couple of minutes, as it should.
> TIA,
>
> Kent
>

Big Green Egg makes several sizes.

Or you could buy a frbrament stone

http://www.bakingstone.com/grilling.php

BOB

Kent > wrote:
> Does anyone know where to buy a pizza stone specifically designed for a
> grill? The standard stones
>

This is a slightly oblique reply, but it might be of use.

Baking involves a certain amount of heat from above, whether
you're doing pizza or bread.

It's possible to do quite good bread on a cheap gas grill by lining
the grill with aluminium foil, placing a pan of water on the heat
radiators and putting the baking surface (a big cast iron skillet
in my case) on the grill. This would limit the thermal stress on
a baking stone, also.

The pan of water keeps direct heat off the baking surface and prevents
drying. The aluminum foil insulates the box and reflects radiant heat
around to the top of the baking surface.

One can adjust the ratio of top heat to bottom heat by varying the
size of the water pan, skipping the water or removing it completely.

I'm doing this with an old Sunbeam Grillmaster 540, the only oddity
is that the "lava rocks" have been replaced by pieces of angle iron.
[actually, it's pieces of a cut-up steel bedframe].

bob prohaska

On Sat, 4 Aug 2007 15:55:56 -0700, "Kent" > wrote:

>....The standard stones tend to crack because of the high grate heat
>underneath, and the sudden change in temp. on the top
>when you open the hood. At least I have wiped out two that way.

Mine, often at 750 deg.F on my grill, is ten years old, and has no problem
handling the heat, or the opened lid, or food being placed on it.

An identical stone in my oven is ten years old, goes through all the
self-cleaning cycles, and has had no problems when the door is opened at 550+,
or food is placed on it at that temperature.

>I've never felt you could do a decent pizza on the grill. At least mine have
>flopped.

Our grilled pizzas are wonderful. Those at Al Forno in Providence are out of
this world.

Your problems seem to have only one element in common, from your posting: you.
8

-- Larry

"pltrgyst" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 4 Aug 2007 15:55:56 -0700, "Kent" > wrote:
>
>>....The standard stones tend to crack because of the high grate heat
>>underneath, and the sudden change in temp. on the top
>>when you open the hood. At least I have wiped out two that way.
>
> Mine, often at 750 deg.F on my grill, is ten years old, and has no problem
> handling the heat, or the opened lid, or food being placed on it.
>
> An identical stone in my oven is ten years old, goes through all the
> self-cleaning cycles, and has had no problems when the door is opened at
> 550+,
> or food is placed on it at that temperature.
>
>>I've never felt you could do a decent pizza on the grill. At least mine
>>have
>>flopped.
>
> Our grilled pizzas are wonderful. Those at Al Forno in Providence are out
> of
> this world.
>
> Your problems seem to have only one element in common, from your posting:
> you.
> 8
>
> -- Larry
>
>
What kind of stone are you using? Do you place it directly on the grate, or
do you suspend it?
IF so , what kind of grates are you using. I haven't had a problem getting
the stone to a high temp. The problem I see with this is that the temp.
above the stone is much cooler than the temp. above
the stone in the home oven, particularly when the outside weather is cool or
cold.

Do you make sausage pizza outside? This is where the above would most
important. Do you do anything to precook the sausage?

TIA,

Kent

"bob prohaska's usenet account" > wrote in message
. net...
> Kent > wrote:
>> Does anyone know where to buy a pizza stone specifically designed for a
>> grill? The standard stones
>>
>
> This is a slightly oblique reply, but it might be of use.
>
> Baking involves a certain amount of heat from above, whether
> you're doing pizza or bread.
>
> It's possible to do quite good bread on a cheap gas grill by lining
> the grill with aluminium foil, placing a pan of water on the heat
> radiators and putting the baking surface (a big cast iron skillet
> in my case) on the grill. This would limit the thermal stress on
> a baking stone, also.
>
> The pan of water keeps direct heat off the baking surface and prevents
> drying. The aluminum foil insulates the box and reflects radiant heat
> around to the top of the baking surface.
>
> One can adjust the ratio of top heat to bottom heat by varying the
> size of the water pan, skipping the water or removing it completely.
>
> I'm doing this with an old Sunbeam Grillmaster 540, the only oddity
> is that the "lava rocks" have been replaced by pieces of angle iron.
> [actually, it's pieces of a cut-up steel bedframe].
>
> bob prohaska
>
>
The foil is a great idea! The water pan is as well. You're mimicking a
baker's oven in your patio.
Thanks,

Kent

On Aug 5, 1:14 pm, "Kent" > wrote:
> "pltrgyst" > wrote in message\

The problem I see with this is that the temp.
> above the stone is much cooler than the temp. above
> the stone in the home oven, particularly when the outside weather is cool or
> cold.

I don't use a grill, but asking: is there a place for a second stone
in your grill?
The reason I ask is: I use two stones in my home oven. One to cook
the pizza on; the second sits above it on another rack.
(I heat both minimum 45 minutes prior to cooking.)

No flaming me, please, for wasting energy; I use the heat for other
things.
Dee

"Dee Dee" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> On Aug 5, 1:14 pm, "Kent" > wrote:
>> "pltrgyst" > wrote in message\
>
> The problem I see with this is that the temp.
>> above the stone is much cooler than the temp. above
>> the stone in the home oven, particularly when the outside weather is cool
>> or
>> cold.
>
> I don't use a grill, but asking: is there a place for a second stone
> in your grill?
> The reason I ask is: I use two stones in my home oven. One to cook
> the pizza on; the second sits above it on another rack.
> (I heat both minimum 45 minutes prior to cooking.)
>
> No flaming me, please, for wasting energy; I use the heat for other
> things.
> Dee
>
>
Dee, I've never felt trying to bake a pizza on an outdoor grill makes any
sense.
Pizza Margherita, however, with its ultrathin crust and only three
ingredients[cheese, fresh tomato, basil] should have a stone temp. of 700F
so it can bake in two minutes.
The home oven can't do this unless you use the cleaning cycle, which most of
us are adverse to.
A gas grill, however, will heat a stone to 700F. You can make a Margherita
in 2-3 minutes.
My problem has been that I have cracked three pizza stones. I'm trying to
solve that and the best idea I've come up with so far is to shield the
bottom of the stone from the fire with a metal pan of some sort. I'm still
struggling, however.

Kent,

constantly struggling to live with his level of ignorance.

"Kent" > wrote in message
. ..

> My problem has been that I have cracked three pizza stones. I'm trying to
> solve that and the best idea I've come up with so far is to shield the
> bottom of the stone from the fire with a metal pan of some sort. I'm still
> struggling, however.
>
> Kent,> constantly struggling to live with his level of ignorance.
>
Dear Kent,
If you have read the posting that a poster gave you regarding FibraMent,
what is your objection to it?
Have you called them to ally your concerns?
http://www.bakingstone.com/grilling.php

Quote
Because no baking stone can be exposed directly to flame, FibraMent for
Grills includes a protective metal pan. FibraMent is placed in the metal
pan while it bakes your favorite pizza.
Unquote.

I'd be considering this product very seriously and quit struggling ;-)

Dee, who bakes thin pizza in conventional oven, getting stones to 600º and
who takes bread baking and pizza making quite seriously.

Best of luck.

On Mon, 6 Aug 2007 21:26:07 -0700, "Kent" > wrote:

>A gas grill, however, will heat a stone to 700F. You can make a Margherita
>in 2-3 minutes.
>My problem has been that I have cracked three pizza stones. I'm trying to
>solve that and the best idea I've come up with so far is to shield the
>bottom of the stone from the fire with a metal pan of some sort.

Have you considered trying a layer of cheap quarry tile under the pizza stone?

-- Larry

"pltrgyst" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 6 Aug 2007 21:26:07 -0700, "Kent" > wrote:
>
>>A gas grill, however, will heat a stone to 700F. You can make a Margherita
>>in 2-3 minutes.
>>My problem has been that I have cracked three pizza stones. I'm trying to
>>solve that and the best idea I've come up with so far is to shield the
>>bottom of the stone from the fire with a metal pan of some sort.
>
> Have you considered trying a layer of cheap quarry tile under the pizza
> stone?
>
> -- Larry

Hmmm, sounds like a good idea, but on second thought, I'm wondering if that
extreme heat coming from the quarry tile might contribute to his cracking
another new stone? I don't know the physics of a metal pan vs. quarry tile
and heat.
Dee Dee

"pltrgyst" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 6 Aug 2007 21:26:07 -0700, "Kent" > wrote:
>
>>A gas grill, however, will heat a stone to 700F. You can make a Margherita
>>in 2-3 minutes.
>>My problem has been that I have cracked three pizza stones. I'm trying to
>>solve that and the best idea I've come up with so far is to shield the
>>bottom of the stone from the fire with a metal pan of some sort.
>
> Have you considered trying a layer of cheap quarry tile under the pizza
> stone?
>
> -- Larry
>
>
I suspect it would work better than a metal pan. The problem is that it
would take forever
to get both the quarry tile and the pizza stone to 700F.

Kent

"Kent" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "pltrgyst" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Mon, 6 Aug 2007 21:26:07 -0700, "Kent" > wrote:
>>
>>>A gas grill, however, will heat a stone to 700F. You can make a
>>>Margherita
>>>in 2-3 minutes.
>>>My problem has been that I have cracked three pizza stones. I'm trying to
>>>solve that and the best idea I've come up with so far is to shield the
>>>bottom of the stone from the fire with a metal pan of some sort.
>>
>> Have you considered trying a layer of cheap quarry tile under the pizza
>> stone?
>>
>> -- Larry
>>
>>
> I suspect it would work better than a metal pan. The problem is that it
> would take forever
> to get both the quarry tile and the pizza stone to 700F.
>
> Kent
How long does it take to get the pizza stone to 700?
Dee Dee

"Dee Dee" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Kent" > wrote in message
> . ..
>
>> My problem has been that I have cracked three pizza stones. I'm trying to
>> solve that and the best idea I've come up with so far is to shield the
>> bottom of the stone from the fire with a metal pan of some sort. I'm
>> still struggling, however.
>>
>> Kent,> constantly struggling to live with his level of ignorance.
>>
> Dear Kent,
> If you have read the posting that a poster gave you regarding FibraMent,
> what is your objection to it?
> Have you called them to ally your concerns?
> http://www.bakingstone.com/grilling.php
>
> Quote
> Because no baking stone can be exposed directly to flame, FibraMent for
> Grills includes a protective metal pan. FibraMent is placed in the metal
> pan while it bakes your favorite pizza.
> Unquote.
>
> I'd be considering this product very seriously and quit struggling ;-)
>
> Dee, who bakes thin pizza in conventional oven, getting stones to 600º and
> who takes bread baking and pizza making quite seriously.
>
> Best of luck.
>
>
AT $64, or whatever for the Fibrament, and the limited frequency that I
leave the kitchen to do this, it's not worth it. Dee, what kind of
preferment do you use for your pizza, if any? Do you try to mimick Italian
00 flour, or do you just use "all purpose"? What is your water to flour
ratio? I like a long ferment, and a wet dough, like dough for Ciabatta,
which is one reason directly grilling on the grill isn't too easy.
What prompted this thread is that for the thin crust Margherita the extra
100F really made a difference. I make almost all pizza in the oven on the
preheated stone.
Cheers

Kent

"Dee Dee" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Kent" > wrote in message
> . ..
>>
>> "pltrgyst" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On Mon, 6 Aug 2007 21:26:07 -0700, "Kent" > wrote:
>>>
>>>>A gas grill, however, will heat a stone to 700F. You can make a
>>>>Margherita
>>>>in 2-3 minutes.
>>>>My problem has been that I have cracked three pizza stones. I'm trying
>>>>to
>>>>solve that and the best idea I've come up with so far is to shield the
>>>>bottom of the stone from the fire with a metal pan of some sort.
>>>
>>> Have you considered trying a layer of cheap quarry tile under the pizza
>>> stone?
>>>
>>> -- Larry
>>>
>>>
>> I suspect it would work better than a metal pan. The problem is that it
>> would take forever
>> to get both the quarry tile and the pizza stone to 700F.
>>
>> Kent
> How long does it take to get the pizza stone to 700?
> Dee Dee
>
The 3rd stone that cracked was onsale at Macy's for about $10. It was so
cheap I couldn't
turn it down. I knew I was performing a $10 experiment. It wasn't as thick
as you might want, though becasue of that it heated promptly. On our medium
run of the mill gas grill[Weber Silver B, but with cast iron grates], it
took about 15 minutes. I didn't think it would get that hot, because that
Weber, like all gas grills, aren't hot enough to sear a steak. The stone did
get to a temp. higher than I can get it to in our home oven, and it made a
great Pizza Margherita[fresh sliced deseeded tomatos, fresh basil, and fresh
mozzarella, and nothing else].
As you know, fresh mozzarella is quite moist, and I think the few drops that
hit the stone cracked it.

Kent

"Kent" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "Dee Dee" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Kent" > wrote in message
>> . ..
>>
> AT $64, or whatever for the Fibrament, and the limited frequency that I
> leave the kitchen to do this, it's not worth it.

This is my second pizza stone, I bought. It is very good IMO. Reasonably
priced.
http://planetdelicious.com/products.php?product=PZ-15SQ


Dee, what kind of
> preferment do you use for your pizza, if any? Do you try to mimick Italian
> 00 flour, or do you just use "all purpose"?

The last time I made a pizza, I made it with exactly the opposite of 00
flour. With duram and semolina. It turned out really great.
Time before that I made it with Hecker's all-purpose flour - I had changed
flour, and this is a great all-purpose flour.

I am going to be ordering when the weather cools down a flour in bulk (50#)
that is about the same protein content as 00, but this will be mainly for
other things. King Arthur does have a flour that is 8.5% which is their
clone (my words, I think) of 00 flour to make a very thin crust, and KA also
has a Lancelot higher protein 14.2% flour, which Reinhart says produces a
thin chewey crust.


What is your water to flour
> ratio? I like a long ferment, and a wet dough, like dough for Ciabatta,
> which is one reason directly grilling on the grill isn't too easy.

I like a wet dough for most everything. But I think you can get a decent
pizza crust without being 'too' wet.


Napoletana Pizza Dough

p. 107 Reinhart's American Pie

who says "As you become more comfortable with wetter dough, feel free to
increase the amount of water, in small increments, to make the dough sticky
rather than tacky."


> What prompted this thread is that for the thin crust Margherita the extra
> 100F really made a difference. I make almost all pizza in the oven on the
> preheated stone.

When I'm in New Haven area, I always ask the cook what their oven temp is.
The consensus I've got is 600º. Try asking, it's fun. You'll be surprised
at all the "I don't know" answers, too. Many will show you their ovens.


Some on the food usegroups get rattled when I post regarding this method of
heating a stone/s, but in case you haven't seen it, this is what I ascribe
to: You might find it on google, if you need the whole thread:

From Kenneth to Doug:
Hi Doug,

In addition, as Dee explained, the stone can easily get much
hotter than the oven setting...

For about 20 years I used a gas oven that had a maximum
setting of 500F. I had a very heavy piece of soapstone in
the bottom.

I used a contact thermometer to measure the temperature of
the stone and a conventional oven calibration thermometer to
measure the temperature of the oven chamber itself.

If I let the oven heat for an hour, the chamber settled to
about 510, but the surface of the stone got up to 625 with
no trouble.

The physics is rather simple: It reduces to the fact that
the oven's thermostat measures the temperature of the air in
the oven. The air, of course, cools much more quickly than
does the massive stone. As a result, with each cycle of the
oven's thermostat more heat is stored in the stone.

All the best,--
Kenneth

I try to repeat this to people as often as I can. The theory/concept comes
not from me, but Kenneth, whom you will see posting on the sourdough usenet
group. You will also find better help than from me on the alt.bread.recipes
group where there are talented bakers.

Dee Dee

Kent > wrote:

> I suspect it would work better than a metal pan. The problem is that it
> would take forever
> to get both the quarry tile and the pizza stone to 700F.

Some people suggest cooking pizza directly on unglazed quary tile.

Bill Ranck
Blacksburg, Va.

> wrote in message ...
> Kent > wrote:
>
>> I suspect it would work better than a metal pan. The problem is that it
>> would take forever
>> to get both the quarry tile and the pizza stone to 700F.
>
> Some people suggest cooking pizza directly on unglazed quary tile.
>
> Bill Ranck
> Blacksburg, Va.

I think that's probably the answer for Kent, who likes to experiment.
Hmm -- little pizzas? California pizzas?
Dee Dee

"Dee Dee" > wrote in message
...
>
> > wrote in message ...
>> Kent > wrote:
>>
>>> I suspect it would work better than a metal pan. The problem is that it
>>> would take forever
>>> to get both the quarry tile and the pizza stone to 700F.
>>
>> Some people suggest cooking pizza directly on unglazed quary tile.
>>
>> Bill Ranck
>> Blacksburg, Va.
>
> I think that's probably the answer for Kent, who likes to experiment.
> Hmm -- little pizzas? California pizzas?
> Dee Dee
>
Most of my pizzas are relatively large, almost filling my 16" round stone.
Pizzas on the grill are quite a bit smaller, especially since the crack,
which decreased its diameter by about two inches. Fortunately it was a
cheap backup stone. I wonder if you put a large aluminum pizza pan on the
grill and the stone on top of that if it would work. How much heat can
aluminum take?

Kent

"Kent" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Dee Dee" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> > wrote in message ...
>>> Kent > wrote:
>>>
>>>> I suspect it would work better than a metal pan. The problem is that it
>>>> would take forever
>>>> to get both the quarry tile and the pizza stone to 700F.
>>>
>>> Some people suggest cooking pizza directly on unglazed quary tile.
>>>
>>> Bill Ranck
>>> Blacksburg, Va.
>>
>> I think that's probably the answer for Kent, who likes to experiment.
>> Hmm -- little pizzas? California pizzas?
>> Dee Dee
>>
> Most of my pizzas are relatively large, almost filling my 16" round stone.
> Pizzas on the grill are quite a bit smaller, especially since the crack,
> which decreased its diameter by about two inches. Fortunately it was a
> cheap backup stone. I wonder if you put a large aluminum pizza pan on the
> grill and the stone on top of that if it would work. How much heat can
> aluminum take?
>
> Kent

In the case of my stones' weights and my aluminum pizza pan, I'm afraid the
weight, not the heat, would be the deciding factor.
Cheers,
Dee Dee

"Dee Dee" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Kent" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Dee Dee" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> > wrote in message ...
>>>> Kent > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I suspect it would work better than a metal pan. The problem is that
>>>>> it
>>>>> would take forever
>>>>> to get both the quarry tile and the pizza stone to 700F.
>>>>
>>>> Some people suggest cooking pizza directly on unglazed quary tile.
>>>>
>>>> Bill Ranck
>>>> Blacksburg, Va.
>>>
>>> I think that's probably the answer for Kent, who likes to experiment.
>>> Hmm -- little pizzas? California pizzas?
>>> Dee Dee
>>>
>> Most of my pizzas are relatively large, almost filling my 16" round
>> stone. Pizzas on the grill are quite a bit smaller, especially since the
>> crack, which decreased its diameter by about two inches. Fortunately it
>> was a cheap backup stone. I wonder if you put a large aluminum pizza pan
>> on the grill and the stone on top of that if it would work. How much heat
>> can aluminum take?
>>
>> Kent
>
> In the case of my stones' weights and my aluminum pizza pan, I'm afraid
> the weight, not the heat, would be the deciding factor.
> Cheers,
> Dee Dee
>
Dee, depending on where you live, the best place to buy pizza peels, pans,
and even stones is a restaurant supply house. I get much larger and better
pans and peels for a fraction of what Macy's charges, and they last.
Check it out.
Cheers to you,
Kent

> Dee, depending on where you live, the best place to buy pizza peels, pans,
> and even stones is a restaurant supply house. I get much larger and better
> pans and peels for a fraction of what Macy's charges, and they last.
> Check it out.
> Cheers to you,
> Kent
Thanks, Kent. I have shopped in restaurant supply houses. I do find things
there. I never shop at Macy's or those kinds of stores. I research a lot
online and find the best deal and a store with a good reputation. I like
Cutlery and More; and Fantes, for starters. They are wonderful to deal
with. I've ordered a few things from cooking.com and they have been
wonderful about replacing some damaged orders.

Right now I'm replacing a Potato Ricer; it will be Cuisipro; but don't think
I'll get it at Amazon. I've had a few things arrive that weren't quite up
to my standards. There shipping isn't always consistent; the last time I
ordered 6 pairs of drapes and a sushi book. They held up the sushi book
with the drapes that took many weeks - 5 or 6 I believe. Other times they
have shipped within a couple of days even in a partial order. One time they
kept telling me they were shipping a book for many, many months. I never
did receive it. (Of course, my money was refunded.)

Yes, it's fun to go to a restaurant supply store. I used to live in the
Seattle-Tacoma area and they, for some reason unknown to me, were plentiful.
thanks so much,
Dee Dee