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  #121 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 10-06-2004, 10:46 AM
Stan de SD
 
Posts: n/a
Default So what exactly does Dan Clore do for a living anyway?


"Alex Russell" wrote in message
news[email protected]
"Stan de SD" wrote in message
news

"Dan Clore" wrote in message
...
News & Views for Anarchists & Activists:
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Starbucks Obstructing First US Union Vote
posted by IU/660 on Tuesday June 01 2004 @ 11:44AM PDT
June 1, 2004
Contact:
Starbucks Obstructing First US Union Vote

Workers to Schultz: What are you so scared of?

New York, NY--The Starbucks Baristas Union and community
members across the country have condemned repeated attempts
by the company to deny workers a fair vote on the Union.
While paying lip-service to respecting the choice of
employees, Starbucks has deployed a variety of crude tactics
in an effort to defeat the IWW IU/660, which would be the
first union certified in the United States at the mammoth chain.

Supporters around the country and internationally are
contacting Starbucks demanding they live up to their
rhetoric. If Starbucks really is a bastion of worker
benefits, what is Chairman Howard Schultz, who raked in over
$17 million last year, so scared of? The truth is Starbucks,
with its poverty wages and rampant repetitive-stress
dangers, resembles a sweatshop more than it does a decent
place to work.


Yeah, and all those 20-something college-age Americans are being forced

to
work there against their will, right? I guess YOU would think it's a
sweatshop, given that you strike me as the type of feminized, spoiled
cry-baby who has never held a real job one day in his life.

Tell us, Dan Clore, self-appointed "voice" of the workers -
what in the hell do YOU do for a living?

Can't come up with a real argument so you want to shoot the messenger?


Came up with an argument that when right over your little head. Nobody is
being forced to work at Starbucks, McDonalds, Wal-Mart, or whatever
corporate villian du juor that grabs the attention of Clore & Co. on a given
day. If you think the company sucks, quit and work somewhere else. If you
think that all companies suck, start your OWN business and exploit yourself.

All the people whining and crying about the afforementioned companies act
like the people who work there are being deprived of alternatives somewhere
else, when they aren't. If they aren't pulling down $100K/year with
benefits, it's not because some retail/fast-food chain is holding them
hostage and keeping them from working at Microsoft - it's because they
simply lack the job skills to do better. Given that education is free until
12th grade, and community colleges are ubiquitous and still relatively
cheap, whose damn fault is it when somebody refuses to take advantage of the
educational opportunities available in this country and can't do better than
flipping burgers and working a computerized cash register?



  #122 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 10-06-2004, 05:43 PM
Xyzzy
 
Posts: n/a
Default So what exactly does Dan Clore do for a living anyway?

"Stan de SD" wrote in message k.net...
"Alex Russell" wrote in message
news[email protected]
"Stan de SD" wrote in message
news

"Dan Clore" wrote in message
...
News & Views for Anarchists & Activists:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo

Starbucks Obstructing First US Union Vote
posted by IU/660 on Tuesday June 01 2004 @ 11:44AM PDT
June 1, 2004
Contact:
Starbucks Obstructing First US Union Vote

Workers to Schultz: What are you so scared of?

New York, NY--The Starbucks Baristas Union and community
members across the country have condemned repeated attempts
by the company to deny workers a fair vote on the Union.
While paying lip-service to respecting the choice of
employees, Starbucks has deployed a variety of crude tactics
in an effort to defeat the IWW IU/660, which would be the
first union certified in the United States at the mammoth chain.

Supporters around the country and internationally are
contacting Starbucks demanding they live up to their
rhetoric. If Starbucks really is a bastion of worker
benefits, what is Chairman Howard Schultz, who raked in over
$17 million last year, so scared of? The truth is Starbucks,
with its poverty wages and rampant repetitive-stress
dangers, resembles a sweatshop more than it does a decent
place to work.

Yeah, and all those 20-something college-age Americans are being forced

to
work there against their will, right? I guess YOU would think it's a
sweatshop, given that you strike me as the type of feminized, spoiled
cry-baby who has never held a real job one day in his life.

Tell us, Dan Clore, self-appointed "voice" of the workers -
what in the hell do YOU do for a living?

Can't come up with a real argument so you want to shoot the messenger?


Came up with an argument that when right over your little head. Nobody is
being forced to work at Starbucks, McDonalds, Wal-Mart, or whatever

And nobody is being forced to own & operate Starbucks, McDonalds,
Wal-Mart. If the CEO's don't like unions they can find another job as
well.

In the USA people have the right to form a board of representatives on
either side of the field.
  #123 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 10-06-2004, 05:43 PM
Xyzzy
 
Posts: n/a
Default So what exactly does Dan Clore do for a living anyway?

"Stan de SD" wrote in message k.net...
"Alex Russell" wrote in message
news[email protected]
"Stan de SD" wrote in message
news

"Dan Clore" wrote in message
...
News & Views for Anarchists & Activists:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo

Starbucks Obstructing First US Union Vote
posted by IU/660 on Tuesday June 01 2004 @ 11:44AM PDT
June 1, 2004
Contact:
Starbucks Obstructing First US Union Vote

Workers to Schultz: What are you so scared of?

New York, NY--The Starbucks Baristas Union and community
members across the country have condemned repeated attempts
by the company to deny workers a fair vote on the Union.
While paying lip-service to respecting the choice of
employees, Starbucks has deployed a variety of crude tactics
in an effort to defeat the IWW IU/660, which would be the
first union certified in the United States at the mammoth chain.

Supporters around the country and internationally are
contacting Starbucks demanding they live up to their
rhetoric. If Starbucks really is a bastion of worker
benefits, what is Chairman Howard Schultz, who raked in over
$17 million last year, so scared of? The truth is Starbucks,
with its poverty wages and rampant repetitive-stress
dangers, resembles a sweatshop more than it does a decent
place to work.

Yeah, and all those 20-something college-age Americans are being forced

to
work there against their will, right? I guess YOU would think it's a
sweatshop, given that you strike me as the type of feminized, spoiled
cry-baby who has never held a real job one day in his life.

Tell us, Dan Clore, self-appointed "voice" of the workers -
what in the hell do YOU do for a living?

Can't come up with a real argument so you want to shoot the messenger?


Came up with an argument that when right over your little head. Nobody is
being forced to work at Starbucks, McDonalds, Wal-Mart, or whatever

And nobody is being forced to own & operate Starbucks, McDonalds,
Wal-Mart. If the CEO's don't like unions they can find another job as
well.

In the USA people have the right to form a board of representatives on
either side of the field.
  #124 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 10-06-2004, 06:00 PM
-MIKE-
 
Posts: n/a
Default So what exactly does Dan Clore do for a living anyway?

Given that education is free until 12th grade, and community colleges are
ubiquitous and still relatively cheap, whose damn fault is it when
somebody refuses to take advantage of the educational opportunities
available in this country and can't do better than flipping burgers and
working a computerized cash register?


sound of can 'o worms opening :-)

When I see Mexican immigrants come to this country, with not even
pocket change, and they start a landscaping company or a restaurant
and within a decade are flourishing business owners employing many
other people, and then I see people born in this country who are
second and third generation welfare addicts, I scratch me head,
thinking, "Now I *know* things are much worse off in Mexico. Why
was that guy able to come over here and make a great living, and he
didn't even speak the language at first?"

Not a dis to anyone. It just shows what can happen with the right
motivation.


-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

  #125 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 10-06-2004, 06:00 PM
-MIKE-
 
Posts: n/a
Default So what exactly does Dan Clore do for a living anyway?

Given that education is free until 12th grade, and community colleges are
ubiquitous and still relatively cheap, whose damn fault is it when
somebody refuses to take advantage of the educational opportunities
available in this country and can't do better than flipping burgers and
working a computerized cash register?


sound of can 'o worms opening :-)

When I see Mexican immigrants come to this country, with not even
pocket change, and they start a landscaping company or a restaurant
and within a decade are flourishing business owners employing many
other people, and then I see people born in this country who are
second and third generation welfare addicts, I scratch me head,
thinking, "Now I *know* things are much worse off in Mexico. Why
was that guy able to come over here and make a great living, and he
didn't even speak the language at first?"

Not a dis to anyone. It just shows what can happen with the right
motivation.


-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply



  #126 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 10-06-2004, 06:34 PM
Michael Legel
 
Posts: n/a
Default So what exactly does Dan Clore do for a living anyway?


"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...
Given that education is free until 12th grade, and community colleges are
ubiquitous and still relatively cheap, whose damn fault is it when
somebody refuses to take advantage of the educational opportunities
available in this country and can't do better than flipping burgers and
working a computerized cash register?


sound of can 'o worms opening :-)

When I see Mexican immigrants come to this country, with not even
pocket change, and they start a landscaping company or a restaurant
and within a decade are flourishing business owners employing many
other people, and then I see people born in this country who are
second and third generation welfare addicts, I scratch me head,
thinking, "Now I *know* things are much worse off in Mexico. Why
was that guy able to come over here and make a great living, and he
didn't even speak the language at first?"

Not a dis to anyone. It just shows what can happen with the right
motivation.


-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply


And you admire these role models who profit by the poverty wages paid to their
fellow countrymen and enjoying the benefits supplied by tax paying Americans?
It's not about the few who profit, but about HOW they acquire those profits.
I have no use for employers who abuse their employees.


  #127 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 10-06-2004, 06:34 PM
Michael Legel
 
Posts: n/a
Default So what exactly does Dan Clore do for a living anyway?


"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...
Given that education is free until 12th grade, and community colleges are
ubiquitous and still relatively cheap, whose damn fault is it when
somebody refuses to take advantage of the educational opportunities
available in this country and can't do better than flipping burgers and
working a computerized cash register?


sound of can 'o worms opening :-)

When I see Mexican immigrants come to this country, with not even
pocket change, and they start a landscaping company or a restaurant
and within a decade are flourishing business owners employing many
other people, and then I see people born in this country who are
second and third generation welfare addicts, I scratch me head,
thinking, "Now I *know* things are much worse off in Mexico. Why
was that guy able to come over here and make a great living, and he
didn't even speak the language at first?"

Not a dis to anyone. It just shows what can happen with the right
motivation.


-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply


And you admire these role models who profit by the poverty wages paid to their
fellow countrymen and enjoying the benefits supplied by tax paying Americans?
It's not about the few who profit, but about HOW they acquire those profits.
I have no use for employers who abuse their employees.


  #128 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 10-06-2004, 08:03 PM
-MIKE-
 
Posts: n/a
Default So what exactly does Dan Clore do for a living anyway?

"Michael Legel" wrote:

And you admire these role models who profit by the poverty wages paid to
their fellow countrymen and enjoying the benefits supplied by tax paying
Americans? It's not about the few who profit, but about HOW they acquire
those profits. I have no use for employers who abuse their employees.


Neither do I.

Show me where I referred to anything illegal. Where I live, company
payrolls are easily inspected and construction companies are bonded
and have to pay into workers' comp and fica and the rest. Nowhere
in my post did I even imply references to illegal immigrants and
slave labor.

The "abused" employees who are taken advantage of by those "few" who
are profiting, to which I am referring, often send a few months
salary back to their families in Mexico, with which they buy a house
and land.

Thanks you for jumping to negative conclusions, though. It's so
refreshing. :-)


-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

  #129 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 10-06-2004, 08:03 PM
-MIKE-
 
Posts: n/a
Default So what exactly does Dan Clore do for a living anyway?

"Michael Legel" wrote:

And you admire these role models who profit by the poverty wages paid to
their fellow countrymen and enjoying the benefits supplied by tax paying
Americans? It's not about the few who profit, but about HOW they acquire
those profits. I have no use for employers who abuse their employees.


Neither do I.

Show me where I referred to anything illegal. Where I live, company
payrolls are easily inspected and construction companies are bonded
and have to pay into workers' comp and fica and the rest. Nowhere
in my post did I even imply references to illegal immigrants and
slave labor.

The "abused" employees who are taken advantage of by those "few" who
are profiting, to which I am referring, often send a few months
salary back to their families in Mexico, with which they buy a house
and land.

Thanks you for jumping to negative conclusions, though. It's so
refreshing. :-)


-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

  #130 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 10-06-2004, 08:06 PM
Michael Legel
 
Posts: n/a
Default So what exactly does Dan Clore do for a living anyway?


"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...
"Michael Legel" wrote:

And you admire these role models who profit by the poverty wages paid to
their fellow countrymen and enjoying the benefits supplied by tax paying
Americans? It's not about the few who profit, but about HOW they acquire
those profits. I have no use for employers who abuse their employees.


Neither do I.

Show me where I referred to anything illegal. Where I live, company
payrolls are easily inspected and construction companies are bonded
and have to pay into workers' comp and fica and the rest. Nowhere
in my post did I even imply references to illegal immigrants and
slave labor.

The "abused" employees who are taken advantage of by those "few" who
are profiting, to which I am referring, often send a few months
salary back to their families in Mexico, with which they buy a house
and land.

Thanks you for jumping to negative conclusions, though. It's so
refreshing. :-)


-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply


It is your contention then that ALL of these wonderful immigrant "companies"
employ only properly documented people and do not take advantage of their
workers poverty? And you have checked them all out and can vouch for that?
Right. And I am jumping to conclusions. Take a reality check. And nowhere
have we even discussed the American workers who used to do such jobs and are
not able to do so unless they too agree to work for minimum wage or less. Get
real.




  #131 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 10-06-2004, 08:06 PM
Michael Legel
 
Posts: n/a
Default So what exactly does Dan Clore do for a living anyway?


"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...
"Michael Legel" wrote:

And you admire these role models who profit by the poverty wages paid to
their fellow countrymen and enjoying the benefits supplied by tax paying
Americans? It's not about the few who profit, but about HOW they acquire
those profits. I have no use for employers who abuse their employees.


Neither do I.

Show me where I referred to anything illegal. Where I live, company
payrolls are easily inspected and construction companies are bonded
and have to pay into workers' comp and fica and the rest. Nowhere
in my post did I even imply references to illegal immigrants and
slave labor.

The "abused" employees who are taken advantage of by those "few" who
are profiting, to which I am referring, often send a few months
salary back to their families in Mexico, with which they buy a house
and land.

Thanks you for jumping to negative conclusions, though. It's so
refreshing. :-)


-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply


It is your contention then that ALL of these wonderful immigrant "companies"
employ only properly documented people and do not take advantage of their
workers poverty? And you have checked them all out and can vouch for that?
Right. And I am jumping to conclusions. Take a reality check. And nowhere
have we even discussed the American workers who used to do such jobs and are
not able to do so unless they too agree to work for minimum wage or less. Get
real.


  #132 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 10-06-2004, 08:51 PM
-MIKE-
 
Posts: n/a
Default So what exactly does Dan Clore do for a living anyway?

"Michael Legel" wrote:

It is your contention then that ALL of these wonderful immigrant
"companies" employ only properly documented people and do not take
advantage of their workers poverty?


Again, show me where I wrote or implied that.

My original reply was in response to someone suggesting that there
is ample opportunity to move up the ladder in this country. He's
right. I was specking to it being somewhat a matter of being
motivated and working hard.


And you have checked them all out and
can vouch for that? Right. And I am jumping to conclusions.
Take a reality check.


Do you realize that the legal population of Hispanics has reached or
surpassed that of African-Americans, as of the last US census? Are
you going to then question the legality of Blacks in this country?
Are you going to just presume the worst about them?

Sure, there are illegal Mexican immigrants. There are also many,
many times more Mexican Americans who are working hard, who have the
same documentation of citizenship as you and I, who are paying their
taxes and social security, who own businesses and employ all types
of people-- complete above board, who even go to college and get
degrees, who even become council members, mayors, and congressmen.

I suppose until I check with all them and vouch for it, you'll
continue to assume the worst.


And nowhere have we even discussed the American workers
who used to do such jobs and are not able to do so unless they too agree
to work for minimum wage or less. Get real.


American workers? Just the white ones, or the Mexican, Black,
Korean, Russian, and Iranian American workers, too?


-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply



  #133 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 10-06-2004, 08:51 PM
-MIKE-
 
Posts: n/a
Default So what exactly does Dan Clore do for a living anyway?

"Michael Legel" wrote:

It is your contention then that ALL of these wonderful immigrant
"companies" employ only properly documented people and do not take
advantage of their workers poverty?


Again, show me where I wrote or implied that.

My original reply was in response to someone suggesting that there
is ample opportunity to move up the ladder in this country. He's
right. I was specking to it being somewhat a matter of being
motivated and working hard.


And you have checked them all out and
can vouch for that? Right. And I am jumping to conclusions.
Take a reality check.


Do you realize that the legal population of Hispanics has reached or
surpassed that of African-Americans, as of the last US census? Are
you going to then question the legality of Blacks in this country?
Are you going to just presume the worst about them?

Sure, there are illegal Mexican immigrants. There are also many,
many times more Mexican Americans who are working hard, who have the
same documentation of citizenship as you and I, who are paying their
taxes and social security, who own businesses and employ all types
of people-- complete above board, who even go to college and get
degrees, who even become council members, mayors, and congressmen.

I suppose until I check with all them and vouch for it, you'll
continue to assume the worst.


And nowhere have we even discussed the American workers
who used to do such jobs and are not able to do so unless they too agree
to work for minimum wage or less. Get real.


American workers? Just the white ones, or the Mexican, Black,
Korean, Russian, and Iranian American workers, too?


-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply



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